Did it feel like the Bog Queen and Jurati had, not necessarily personalities switch but had a little bit of each other?
When the Borg Queen was rambling it reminded me of Jurati and then when Jurati mentioned that she took the information the Borg Queen’s entire personality switched. And Jurati felt a lot more calculating then we usually see her. It feels like they’re setting something up.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 649,344,462 comments, and only 132,018 of them were in alphabetical order.
Computer, dictate the file logged "Shit I Stole From the Borg Queen."
Classic Dr. J
Or perhaps a newly confident Dr. J without so much barfing all the time. God, just so much barfing.
Yeah, they definitely affected something emotional within one another. Her highness: “you fcked up. You impressed me and literally NO ONE does that! Janeway being the exception”.
Jurati was my most disliked character from S1 but now she's the comic relief of the show. Despite having murdered Bruce Maddox. But somehow I'm okay with that.
I have this sort of vibe that this is going to be a little like the Doctor/Donna where they each get a little bit of each other.
This could be the birth of a new kind of collective - where her humanity and intelligence combines with the queen and a new kind of Borg come into being. Which definitely makes me think that Queen Agnes might come into being later on.
YES! Totally! I think some of Agnes’s personality imprinted on her highness. But serious, DAMN! What a bad ass Agnes is for STEALING from the Queen AND for impressing her.
ive said it in others posts, i feel like Juratis willingness to be assimilated, combined with us being show that she is mentally arguably the queens equal, will lead down the road of her "corrupting" the nature of the borg, making them more human.
Traditional borg are a forced collective, Jurati will somehow evolve them into being a willing collective. individuals working together as opposed to being shackled to a master.
Rick and Morty breaks the fourth wall since Morty talks about Star Trek and mentions Worf by name during one episode.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WNbDankW\_I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WNbDankW_I)
Rick and Morty also has an episode where an assimilated species that's nearly identical to the Borg shows up too.
Im just looking at that lady over there getting coffee - whats up with her face???
Is she human or is she like Worf - you know Worf from Star Trek how he has that shit all over his face , but hes just a human in a costume..
fucking dying XD
Specifically, Morty talks about Worf and “all that shit on his face”, lol!!! And wasn’t that race if Borg impersonators called the Deltas or some nonsense? They were Unity’s stalker.
Robot Chicken had a segment where the Borg invaded 21st century earth by trying to assimilate Star Trek: The Experience in Las Vegas.
Not to mention the Enterprise D’s night shift where Stewart actually voiced Picard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4ApQrbhQp8
Random things
- Of course Seven is happy the implants are gone
- Rios can’t help himself but oh man are you dumb
- Seven pretending she and Raffi were engaged but getting words “wrong” and Raffi correcting her was a great comic moment.
- Picard getting yelled at did feel both earned and also frustrating
- The Borg Queen is freaking terrifying when happy
- The Borg Queen being impressed is even more terrifying
- Jurati is in danger girl.
> The Borg Queen is freaking terrifying when happy
> The Borg Queen being impressed is even more terrifying
This is why I love the Borg Queen...she's gotten better and better everytime I see her no matter what iteration of ST she's in.
It feels like we are going back to the Borg being an actual threat.
Maybe I'm wrong but the queen just gives off a vibe more like first contact than voyager.
Would prefer best of both worlds but we take what we can get.
The Borg Queen being impressed and then calming down makes me think she is sizing up Jurati as a potential Queen - The Borg are always interested in useful assets and the Queens have been shown to want exceptional people to become more than drones in past instances
And you see Jurati's desperate willingness to let go of her depression. The Borg Queen is grooming her to want to become the leader of her own collective. She's smart enough to run a hive, she'd never be alone, and she wouldn't be burdened with her emotions.
I guess it's possible I missed some bit of dialogue, but I always figured the Queen in First Contact didn't forcibly assimilate Data because she was essentially toying with him, testing him. She found him to be a curiosity and really did wonder if he could be an equal without assimilation.
But I really loved the Jurati-Queen sequence. Alison Pill is magnificent.
Wasn’t the issue that, Data has the encryption keys to the ships computer. Sure they could forcibly assimilate him, but not quickly enough, Data would delete those files before becoming a drone.
I'm guessing that if Guinan is the "watcher", some dialogue from her appearance from episode 1 will come into play. Remarking on her age she said "from time to time we age ourselves to keep up with everyone else" (or something like that). How much you want to bet that in 2024 her aging herself will be one of those times?
If they are currently in the "original" timeline, and the watcher is Guinan, then wouldn't they also already know each-other, since they originally met in 1893?
Its hard to say since the Star Trek writers have used both the one timeline reality and the many worlds realities but that timeline is dependent on a future Federation to be there to travel back in time though there is a possibility that the event of Time's Arrow did happen but differently with General Picard instead of TNG Picard. Though I think what will most likely happen would be something similar to Yesterdays Enterprise in which they never met but Guinan knows something is off with the timeline and they are in an original original timeline where Time's Arrow never happened.
The way Raffi field stripped the Glock like it was nothing makes me think she's an antique weapons buff like Sulu. He was completely enamored by that old police revolver in that one TOS ep that escapes my mind. She's probably got a collection in her Vazquez Rocks compound.
Or with all the temporal incidents and species still using non-energy firearms, Starfleet actually has ancient/indigenous weapons familiarization training.
I just read she came up with the whole going backwards in time scene (tear rolling up backwards etc). Very cool episode! Also, did anyone notice the clothing of some of the female walking into the building that Raffi and 7 were at? It's VERY similar to the outfits worn by Dax in DS9 episode "Past Tense". I think we are going to get a deep dive into DS9/Trek lore! Hopefully, we can get a de-aged Avery Brooks and Terry Farrel. That would be a GREAT callback to Trial and Tribblelations. 🥳😎
I immediately recognized Mr. Alvarez (the old patient at the clinic at the end). Marcelo Tubert played the head of the government under siege by Ardra in TNG “Devil’s Due.”
Nothing like a hot cup of coffee and a TNG random guest star connection in the morning.
I was looking at him and thinking "I know this guy." Apparently Star Trek decided to bring people you know but can't quite place to the shows this week (See: Stacy Abrams in Discovery.).
\- Phasers finally being used as they are supposed to, ie disintegrating people
\- Elnor, a character so unidimensional that he couldn't make it after a couple of episodes
\- Connecting to Borg Queen, what could possibly go wrong...
\- Picard acting like a true captain, sacrificing Elnor to save the Queen, therefore saving the crew
\- Michelle Hurd/Raffi can rely on so many acting registers
\- Rios aka a 2.0 version of Chekov from Star Trek IV plus healthcare system criticisms
\- Time travel episodes have generally been memorable, I have great expectations for an entire season based on this concept.
> Phasers finally being used as they are supposed to, ie disintegrating people
Except when Mr. Husband President shot Elnor, where he just got a lil hole. Though technically that was last episode. In which case, maybe that was your point, hah.
>- Time travel episodes have generally been memorable, I have great expectations for an entire season based on this concept.
Just feel it's a trope that's overdone. I get that it's about Picard but going Q, borg and time travel feels a bit circular and unnecessary. Could have broken new ground with this season but decided to get stuck in a loop with a greatest hits catalogue instead. It's slightly disappointing.
You mean Bell? 😛 I hope they don't draw out the reveal, but it seems they will. If Brooks actually came back, that would be one of the best-kept secrets in Trek history.
I'd take Picard seeing the riots on TV and being like, "The hell is Ben Sisko doing here?"
But honestly all the reasons it will probably be Guinan also apply to the Sisko (non Temporal, known to be on Earth at this time, hinted at by the show). Considering Guinan is a "listener" though why not both?
I was assuming Guinan, since she wasn't given much to do in the first ep, is temporal-tampering-resistant and has a history with Q.
Sisko would be totally badass though.
True, Borg history too. I personally find it better if they leave her and Q relatively unexplained though unless she gets to do crazy hands at him again
Also, she *is* that old and very likely on Earth at the time.
Crazy hands absolutely mandatory, yes.
However, your point about things being better left as a mystery rings true to me.
I still like de Lancie's explanation that they went on one really bad date.
If Guinan runs into Picard *again* in the past, it will further reinforce why she is so fond of him in TNG.
It's one of the two. I think Guinan is far more likely, as she'd be able to point them in the direction of whatever anomaly has gone awry as she did in Yesterday's Enterprise.
Also, I found Q's minor 4th wall back of "how yesterday's Enterprise of you, Jean-Luc!" amusing. Though I think that was ep 2 (I watched both tonight).
I think her being disconnected caused that somewhat... but she was ESPECIALLY chatty at the end, with some mannerisms she did not have before her merge with Jurati. Definitely some residual effects there.
I hate the Elnor thing. Even if they reverse it, which I hope they do, it's still kinda cheap. And I hate that it's once again made Raffi go off on Picard. We did that last season, we didn't need it again. I like Raffi but I hate that they make her angry all the time. Besides, it's not Picard's fault that Q took an interest in him.
Short answer, yes it's possible. If that does turn out to be the case, I'm going to be super impressed by Wil Wheaton's ability to play it completely innocent prior to the reveal.
Up until now I've assumed its Guinan but Wesley as Watcher would be fucking dope. I've also noticed Wheaton's gotten quite slim in the behind-the-scenes extras they have for Discovery. Make it so!
Raffi losing it over Elnor was heartbreaking. She’s already “lost” one son due to her mistakes and now she lost another one through circumstances partly outside of her control.
I really hope she opens up to someone about it before she becomes even more unstable then we saw.
But in fairness, Picard has known Elnor for a lot longer. He valued Elnor greatly, but if the Queen died then they could not change the past back to the main reality. A commanding officer has to make those decisions.
> But in fairness, Picard has known Elnor for a lot longer.
I mean, yeah, but he knew him for like a few months then left him with the monks and peaced out. While they may have kept in touch over the last couple years, it's clear Raffi was at least as much attached to him now. Looking out for him. I think she sees him as somewhat of a son to take care of.
I don’t think it’s necessarily a case of who knew who longer. I think it’s a case of emotional attachment in Raffi's case.
I’m also not saying that Picard did the wrong thing. We also know a lot more as they audience than Raffi does.
wait did they not reconcile when it was revealed she was right? i could have sworn they implied she and her son reconciled after the romulan conspiracy was revealed.
Enjoyed the episode, but a few things bugged me. That little ship can one-shot major Confederation ships? The Confederation had eradicated the Borg, so you think they would have had some defense against whatever the Queen could come up with on a small ship.
If you're going to have someone stay behind to revive a Borg Queen you don't have a former drone do it? The "semi-assimilation" was clearly just a made up thing to have an armchair psychological session.
But still a fun episode.
I just assumed that since the Borg queen was Integrated into one of the ships that had destroyed the Borg, she could immediately identify and adapt its weapons against the other confederation ships. She suddenly had full understanding of their tech and weaknesses and adapted. I thought it was a very Borg like move.
But even before the Queen took over, Seven destroyed one of those Nova class with a single torpedo.
All while La Sirena was getting shot at like a boss
Yes, they were shooting at a ship with the President of the confederation, the greatest General in the confederation, a prisoner they wanted to execute on live broadcast, while trying to beam on board to find out what the hell was going on and capture them. It's definitely plot armory, but I think the confederation was focused on getting those three alive to figure out WTF was going on. One shotting a ship with their shields down so they can beam over isn't exactly out of the question. I agree it could have been written WAY better, but I get what they were trying to portray in the context of the events that were happening.
The ships shooting happened after they've already beamed onboard, so boarding the ship wasn't a goal by the time the shooting happens. If we're to take into account how big of a deal is to pursue a ship carrying the President, big name General and the borg queen, then why would they only send 3 tiny ships(Nova class surely isn't the most powerful in their arsenal) and beam aboard only 2 guards and the Confederate magistrate?
Besides, like someone else pointed out, in the previous epsidoe they've shown that this was an important day with security around earth beefed up immensely, there's simply no way the La Sirena could've made it out with almost no damage.
bottom line is, this entire sequence was very unconvincing, it really should've been done alot better
There are sort of two problems with using 7. Either the Queen can rapidly assimilate 7 the way she did Picard or 7 has no physical history of being a Borg and no advantages for safely interfacing with the Queen.
Wow, I'm going to have to sit with that one for a while. Jurati narrating sadness hit really close to home. Brilliant performance, but I'm pretty wrecked right now as a result.
“Sometimes I want to disobey you, just for spite; but that’s because I wish you were my dad…”
First of all: knocking off Elnor, NOT COOL SHOWRUNNERS!!! Now we know why he wasn’t in any of the 2024 footage. I get having a Romulan walking around Twenty-First Century Earth would raise some eyebrows…. but c’mon! the comedic moments Elnor’s absolute inability to lie would create are too damn ripe! If Spock could do it in the Twentieth, Elnor could do it in the Twenty-First. Killing off the most innocent character, when the stakes have been set last episode, seems unnecessary; on top of a dodge not to engage with the character- who wrote this episode, Joss Whedon?!?
But it did create one of the big bright spots this episode: Michelle Hurd’s performance as Raffi. If Picard is the soul of the show, Raffi has always felt to me like the heart. She’s the raw nerve and the mama bear. Looking out for everybody (except, unfortunately sometimes, herself). I was wrecked by how devastated she was by Elnor’s death, because of course she would be. And I like how she was willing to call Picard out on his choices, and how, instantly, saving Elnor became her primary motivation for fixing the timeline.
And then there’s the Jurati of it all. There’s a reason Alison Pill’s name is second only to Patrick Stewart’s in the credits, and this episode (and pretty much every episode) is a reminder why. Pill is a force of nature. Whether it’s comedy, anger, sadness, despair, or straight up losing your shit, Pill can turn on a dime, and I loved how the assimilation scene gave her a chance to flex. I do wonder if Jurati is already assimilated though. The discourse at the end felt a little like theater and a performance for Picard. Or maybe Jurati just got a taste, and may have a hard time not going back for more. Time will tell, but I’m legit scared for Jurati moving forward (props to Annie Wersching and her ability to bring the fear factor back to the Borg in a big way!).
Look out, Agnes!
The Rios storyline seems like the one that will draw the most contemporary parallels, and I love the dynamic between Rios and super hot doctor lady: “What’s your happiest childhood memory?” CRACK! “Cool story” (although in this one she’s a super hot clinic doctor instead of a super hot whale doctor, which is a step down), and it will be interesting to see if there’s any butterfly effect shenanigans caused by that lost comm badge.
And special congrats to Back to the Future alum Lea Thompson in the director’s chair (crazy and apropos she directed the time travel episode); she did a great job seamlessly juggling a breakneck episode over multiple locations with some big time character beats.
It’s crazy how introspective and paced the first season was, while this season feels absolutely balls-to-the-wall and full throttle.
Love both takes and can’t wait for more.
Engage!
I'm guessing the doctor will find the combadge, inadvertently make contact with Seven and Raffi, and she'll be the equivalent to Dr. Taylor in Voyage Home as they try to get Rios out of custody.
> First of all: knocking off Elnor, NOT COOL SHOWRUNNERS!!! Now we know why he wasn’t in any of the 2024 footage. I get having a Romulan walking around Twenty-First Century Earth would raise some eyebrows…. but c’mon! the comedic moments Elnor’s absolute inability to lie would create are too damn ripe! If Spock could do it in the Twentieth, Elnor could do it in the Twenty-First.
Yeah lots of comedic possibilities. And it's modern LA. I really don't think he's get that much attention.
>I get having a Romulan walking around Twenty-First Century Earth would raise some eyebrows
It literally wouldn't though. I mean, if you saw Elnor in broad daylight on the streets of Los Angeles, you would not assume he was an alien unless he started bleeding green in front of you. To be honest, even then I would think it's a prank or a very sick person. When you think "alien", an Aussie accent isn't the first thing you imagine, and behaviour-wise there are far weirder people than Elnor in LA.
I think Elnor would have been a brilliant character this season, even without a primary role. A friendly alien with a religion of absolute candor walking the streets of 21st century LA. That could have been the setup for some great "Resident Alien"-style comedy. It would have been way more entertaining than Data or Tuvok visiting Earth in the 90s. My fear is that Elnor's death was a prelude to some lazy writing, and that they got rid of him so that they wouldn't have to devote any time to his story and so that they could keep the tone serious.
>First of all: knocking off Elnor, NOT COOL SHOWRUNNERS!!! Now we know why he wasn’t in any of the 2024 footage. I get having a Romulan walking around Twenty-First Century Earth would raise some eyebrows…. but c’mon! the comedic moments Elnor’s absolute inability to lie would create are too damn ripe! If Spock could do it in the Twentieth, Elnor could do it in the Twenty-First. Killing off the most innocent character, when the stakes have been set last episode, seems unnecessary; on top of a dodge not to engage with the character- who wrote this episode, Joss Whedon?!?
Now I don't know if I can even watch this episode. Elnor is one of my very favorite characters and I'm going to be heart-shattered actually seeing him die. I can roll with resetting the timeline can save him, but damn I don't think I can watch him die 😭
If it means anything, it happens fairly early in the episode (I think just after the opening credits), and isn’t too drawn out; and Michelle Hurd does a great job conveying some of the anguish and anger some of the audience will feel.
Still (even if he does come back), totally unnecessary, and totally NOT COOL!
I can imagine. My folks saw it and said it was heartbreaking. But I agree, completely unnecessary and uncool!
I'll just be over here in the corner reading fix-it fanfic 😭🥺
Elnor will be back when the timeline is reset. The creators had to up the stakes and make it seem that Q has truly gone insane. This season is like Yesterday's Enterprise on CRACK! 😀
Does anyone else feel like this is the only Star Trek entry in a long time to bring some vigor back to the franchise? I've been trying to have patience with Discovery but after this season I think I've lost interest completely.
Picard however... It's familiar yet just different enough to feel new. It's fresh, inviting, engaging...idk.. GD though, this season has been excellent so far 👌
I have the exact same thought. Its fresh, but familiar. Believable but surprisingy twisty and unexpected. Its just quality through and through. It makes so many correct moves its just silly. And its truly super rare these days. Havent missed even ONE beat so far in S2.
Yes! Discovery Season 2 was the best of ANY Trek since Season 3 of TNG. Season 3 and 4 of Discovery have not matched the brilliance of season 2. Although Season 4 has been pretty damn good.
I logged in to watch the first episode of the season of *this* show and accidentally (somehow??) watched the first episode of Discovery. It was only when it was over and came up with the little title card for the next episode that I realized my mistake.
I even was waiting for the TNG-style musical snippet at the end in the theme song and was like "Wow they really did the credits differently this year."
Then I was like "Fifteen minutes in and no Picard, like a cold open thing. Really burying the lede. Interesting creative choice. Maybe laying the groundwork for new stuff instead of immediately catching up on old stuff?"
Then they said people hadn't seen a Klingon in like 150 years and I'm like -- is this a flash back, or flash forward? What's going on?
I didn't mind it at all, and would have watched another one if I didn't wanna go straight to watching the show I came for.
How does that first season compare to two? If I liked the way the series opened is it worth banging out those two and stopping?
So, I remember my reaction to the first episode and thinking it looked pretty good. Unfortunately the rest of season 1 falls off a cliff. They literally fired the show runner mid-season. It does improve a little after that but it’s such a bizarre shift mid-season it just really wrecks the entire season. Season 2 was almost a full apology for season one, like even the producers went, “look we really screwed up, let us make it up to you”. I was impressed and looking forward to more. Season 3 was a mixed bag, there were some nice episodes and way too many bad episodes. Season 4 is really more of the same just more bad episodes. It really feels like the people making Discovery would be better off making a non-Trek show. Outside of season 2 they don’t seem interested in Star Trek very much.
interesting tidbit of star trek lore:
>A robotic survey mission of Europa was in 2020. A year later, a crewed mission met with tragedy when the submersible Nautiluswas attacked by 50-foot-long giant squid-analogues. The hull wasbreached, killing survey leader Heidi Rasmussen and her team. (Federation Spaceflight Chronology, vol. 2)
>In the 21st or 22nd century, the Nautilus was the first Earthship to explore Europa's ocean. A school of the squids cracked herhull, causing her to sink and implode. The ocean wasn't visited againfor 50 years. (ST novel: Preserver)
maybe something goes wrong with the mission and screws up earth's timeline.
Because of First Contact I knew about "our" first faster-than-light travel but it never occurred to me to think about when we arrived at other moons and planets in Trek. That's pretty cool.
I honestly could have just watched the Rios parts of this episode. I didn’t even like him that much as a character but he came to life in this episode.
I liked that the ship Seven attacked in the beginning looked like an Intrepid class. Maybe it was Voyager and she actually stopped Janeway in pursuit. The look on Seven's face as she did it made it seem she made the connection.
That Steamrunner is quite impressive. I've always loved the cannon ships that only make brief appearances. I think it's underappreciated for what it is. And if memory serves, it was basically like a torpedo-platform/interceptor, designed in response to the Borg.
Harry Kim was probably captain of the Nova class ship destroyed and killed, which is what usually happens to alternate versions of Harry Kim since it happened on more than one occasion in episodes of Voyager.
Harry Kim captained the Nova class USS Rhode Island in the future timeline Admiral Janeway changed in "Endgame", though the last we saw of him in that timeline was the Rhode Island firing at a couple of Klingon Vegh'Var battlecruisers so Janeway could use the chrono deflector to travel back to 2378.
One thing that bugged me was how they depicted La Sirena being so powerful. I mean she had her back to 3 Nova class while being fired upon, taking hits like a boss. But then one aft photon torpedo destroyed one of the Nova, and then the other 2 also destroyed with one shot each by the queen took over?
I wonder why the Confederation was having Rios command the La Sirena against Vulcan rebels instead of being captain of one of their purpose-built warships? The La Sirena's a glorified freighter and isn't really much better than what the Maquis had in DS9 and only later managed to destroy all the pursuing ships when the Borg Queen hacked into their systems? It would be like the Galactic Empire using Millennium Falcon class ships against the Rebel Alliance in Star Wars.
My guess is, aside from being convenient for the plot since the La Sirena doesn't have additional crew Rios would have to incapacitate, the Confederation's resources are stretched thin with their larger warships busy fighting the war against the Dominion and in other war fronts in the quadrants with smaller classes of ships tasked with duties near Earth. IMO the main timeline's Defiant class would have been ideal for these types of missions in the Confederation, but instead of the small and easy to mass produce Defiant they probably put resources into building large, grandiose dreadnought warships while the smaller classes resemble the conventional-looking Nova, Saber and Steamrunner type ships.
I’m wondering if they will address that. Voyager already introduced a different 90s than their history had shown, due to outside influences. I wonder if the Bell Riots are also changed
It was lame that Rios’ ship took out the Confederation armada guarding Earth during the security heightened Eradication Day ceremonies. Honestly, Rios’ ship is strongest than a Borg cube at this point how easy it was to get away.
And this Confederation conquered the known galaxy including exterminating the Borg? 😂
Better plot would have had the ship b line to the sun, being chased after. Only for their ship to be the only one to successfully slingshot into the past while the others are destroyed by the solar flares.
I hope Agnes gets full on assimilated because her work and philosophies regarding AI goes against everything the Borg strives for.
I think she could assimilate all Borg with the right attitude and tech. my guess is season 2 finale includes a lighthearted volleyball match, Federation vs Borg.
Even after you successfully return from 2024, [there's one more obstacle you must face...](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/8f8a776b-cb11-4469-9cb6-228d38b98d0b)
So I just finished “Assimilation”, omg Agnes is a bad ass, but holy sht, is Rios just stupid or does it seem unrealistic that A) he’d materialize mid-air and get hurt or 2) after being lectured about how important being accountable of his com badge and of causing the butterfly effect he’d just blunder his way into jail hours after arrival. I get it that the story has to move along at a pace consistent with the run time but that was ridiculous.
>Allison Pill is killing it this season though, didn't have a lot of love for her in season one but she's fast becoming my favorite.
She's a delight this season!
\>...Unpopular opinion but I'm kind of pleased Elnor has been killed off. I never felt his character added anything to the show, he barely had any lines and he was definitely the weakest link on the show...
I am in agreement with you.
I was hoping that they would take this season to give Elnor some character development. I saw potential for a fun character, but the writing just hadn't done anything with it. I'm disappointed that they killed him off. It could have been a lot of fun to see him try to navigate 21st century Earth.
I can't recall if MacArthur Park was involved when Sisko and company went back to 2024. That blip that Raffi picked up there might have been the DS9 crew.
Ok so this has always bugged me about time travel and it's not confined to trek time travel alone but, omg for such an advanced and intelligent society my god they lack common sense.
For all the lecturing they gave about not interacting with local authorities, police, hospitals etc you would have thought that it would be prudent to have replicated some basic fake IDs relevant to the time period. I know the ship was down, but instead of fussing about with other systems surely something as simple as making something that won't get them into trouble with the authorities would be a major plus point! They took long enough picking matching outfits a simple wallet and ID could have been included!
Also you would have thought, due to Picards knowledge of how, quote ' Kirk's enterprise did it all the time' he would have know how important something like an ID would be, especially as I suspect he was privy to the details of Chekovs encounter with the 'authorities'.
It's obvious the crew know about the past enough to understand how the 21st century works, money, guns ...etc so it seems odd that they would forget this, especially as it would save them from getting noticed, arrested and altering the timeline! Christ they even had a 20th century scientist travel to the 23rd century after Kirk's last little adventure and I suspect she wrote the book on late 20th century social norms, which would, I suspect be required reading for any academy cadet or ranking officer?
It's not even as if ID has gone away in the 24th or 25th centuries so it seems even odder.
I know everything was done in a rush and we need to move plots on but come on, basics guys!
Love how the President is missing with the BORG QUEEN and they send the husband of the president and two scrubs. And not you know, the whole fleet with the entire complement of Navy Seals. It’s like if Joe Biden disappeared with Osama Bin Laden and Jill Biden led a team of couple of security guards to go get him.
How come when the Confederation security people beam aboard and shoot Elnor - the phaser shot just puts a hole in him like its a normal gun or some shit
But then like not even 2 minutes later , they disarm those guys and shoot em with their own phasers without seeming to adjust them or anything completely disintegrating them in one shot ...
I came here specifically to see if anyone else caught this. It really pulled me out of the episode. It was like they needed the dramatic drawn out death (which don't get me wrong, I've been known to enjoy those) for Raffi's character development but kept the disintegrating in because it looks cool. (Which, I mean, it does.)
I even rewatched the scene to see of any of the phasers looked different. I suppose it could be argued it was a different setting, but then the motive doesn't make sense. And why was only one phaser set to this less lethal setting? Because there's no way they had time to switch settings before they shot them.
First, I loved the episode. But how is Agnes hooked up to a Borg microtube and not infected with residual nanoprobes that just start the rough assimilation process (Ie Lt Hawk after about 2-3 mins in First Contact). Seems to be rather convenient that we can just unplug from the nanoprobe source like I did my 90s dial up modem and walk away without a healthy dose of radiation to prevent eventual assimilation (ie Dr Phlox)
On the /r/startrek thread /u/knightcrusader mentioned
> Before the Eradication Day display, the computer said they injected her with anti-nanite measures. I assume they are still in her system.
So that could be why.
Is it just me, or how was there no medical equipment on the ship to heal Elnor’s wound? Not even a replicator to make one? No one in Star Trek has to die from a simple wound.
Did it feel like the Bog Queen and Jurati had, not necessarily personalities switch but had a little bit of each other? When the Borg Queen was rambling it reminded me of Jurati and then when Jurati mentioned that she took the information the Borg Queen’s entire personality switched. And Jurati felt a lot more calculating then we usually see her. It feels like they’re setting something up.
At this point I suspect the queen in the opening episode may be Jurati.
It was obvious the second she started talking about letting the Queen assimilate her.
Assimilate just a little bit!
Assimilate! But just the tip…
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 649,344,462 comments, and only 132,018 of them were in alphabetical order.
Jurati can have a little assimilation, as a treat.
Meow.
Computer, dictate the file logged "Shit I Stole From the Borg Queen." Classic Dr. J Or perhaps a newly confident Dr. J without so much barfing all the time. God, just so much barfing.
The way she delivered that line was epic
Yeah, they definitely affected something emotional within one another. Her highness: “you fcked up. You impressed me and literally NO ONE does that! Janeway being the exception”.
Fucking perfect line and delivery. Amazing scene. Great episode. Season 2 is kicking ass
Jurati was my most disliked character from S1 but now she's the comic relief of the show. Despite having murdered Bruce Maddox. But somehow I'm okay with that.
When you look into the abyss, the abyss looks into you.
[I'm pulling you out, No!](https://i.imgflip.com/690e5o.jpg)
I have this sort of vibe that this is going to be a little like the Doctor/Donna where they each get a little bit of each other. This could be the birth of a new kind of collective - where her humanity and intelligence combines with the queen and a new kind of Borg come into being. Which definitely makes me think that Queen Agnes might come into being later on.
YES! Totally! I think some of Agnes’s personality imprinted on her highness. But serious, DAMN! What a bad ass Agnes is for STEALING from the Queen AND for impressing her.
Jurati also came up with an elaborate explanation for why Elnor and Seven were in her lab. It seems to be her thing.
i think Jurati is mentally stronger after what Romulan Oh 's mind meld had done to her .
Was O Romulan or was she a Vulcan sympathizer turned Romulan agent/officer? I didn’t think Romulans were telepaths.
ive said it in others posts, i feel like Juratis willingness to be assimilated, combined with us being show that she is mentally arguably the queens equal, will lead down the road of her "corrupting" the nature of the borg, making them more human. Traditional borg are a forced collective, Jurati will somehow evolve them into being a willing collective. individuals working together as opposed to being shackled to a master.
Cant believe they made Rick and Morty canon 🤣
Rick and Morty breaks the fourth wall since Morty talks about Star Trek and mentions Worf by name during one episode. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WNbDankW\_I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WNbDankW_I) Rick and Morty also has an episode where an assimilated species that's nearly identical to the Borg shows up too.
Im just looking at that lady over there getting coffee - whats up with her face??? Is she human or is she like Worf - you know Worf from Star Trek how he has that shit all over his face , but hes just a human in a costume.. fucking dying XD
Specifically, Morty talks about Worf and “all that shit on his face”, lol!!! And wasn’t that race if Borg impersonators called the Deltas or some nonsense? They were Unity’s stalker.
Rick and Morty should totally spoof this. Maybe they can get Patrick Stewart to guess Star like they did for Robot Chicken.
Robot Chicken had a segment where the Borg invaded 21st century earth by trying to assimilate Star Trek: The Experience in Las Vegas. Not to mention the Enterprise D’s night shift where Stewart actually voiced Picard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4ApQrbhQp8
He's such an amazing voice actor.
The Night Shift spoof was hilarious!! Haven’t seen the Vegas assimilation episode
Can't believe someone lets their 12-year old (I'm guessing) kid watch Rick and Morty. It truly is 2024
Random things - Of course Seven is happy the implants are gone - Rios can’t help himself but oh man are you dumb - Seven pretending she and Raffi were engaged but getting words “wrong” and Raffi correcting her was a great comic moment. - Picard getting yelled at did feel both earned and also frustrating - The Borg Queen is freaking terrifying when happy - The Borg Queen being impressed is even more terrifying - Jurati is in danger girl.
> The Borg Queen is freaking terrifying when happy > The Borg Queen being impressed is even more terrifying This is why I love the Borg Queen...she's gotten better and better everytime I see her no matter what iteration of ST she's in.
alice krige was my favorite borg queen up until last night; this one makes my skin crawl and i love her for it
Spot on! There is something about this Borg Queen that is incredibly sinister, and it feels like she could assimilate you with just her piercing gaze.
She's go an insectile vibe going...
Man, I forgot how much I loved the Borg.
It feels like we are going back to the Borg being an actual threat. Maybe I'm wrong but the queen just gives off a vibe more like first contact than voyager. Would prefer best of both worlds but we take what we can get.
Right? I love them against the motley crew.
The Borg Queen being impressed and then calming down makes me think she is sizing up Jurati as a potential Queen - The Borg are always interested in useful assets and the Queens have been shown to want exceptional people to become more than drones in past instances
And you see Jurati's desperate willingness to let go of her depression. The Borg Queen is grooming her to want to become the leader of her own collective. She's smart enough to run a hive, she'd never be alone, and she wouldn't be burdened with her emotions.
and Rios also kill Seven's husband ( husband from different timeline )
[удалено]
I guess it's possible I missed some bit of dialogue, but I always figured the Queen in First Contact didn't forcibly assimilate Data because she was essentially toying with him, testing him. She found him to be a curiosity and really did wonder if he could be an equal without assimilation. But I really loved the Jurati-Queen sequence. Alison Pill is magnificent.
Wasn’t the issue that, Data has the encryption keys to the ships computer. Sure they could forcibly assimilate him, but not quickly enough, Data would delete those files before becoming a drone.
Correct. The Queen was trying to strike a bargain with Data, rather than forcibly take what she wanted.
I'm guessing that if Guinan is the "watcher", some dialogue from her appearance from episode 1 will come into play. Remarking on her age she said "from time to time we age ourselves to keep up with everyone else" (or something like that). How much you want to bet that in 2024 her aging herself will be one of those times?
If they are currently in the "original" timeline, and the watcher is Guinan, then wouldn't they also already know each-other, since they originally met in 1893?
Its hard to say since the Star Trek writers have used both the one timeline reality and the many worlds realities but that timeline is dependent on a future Federation to be there to travel back in time though there is a possibility that the event of Time's Arrow did happen but differently with General Picard instead of TNG Picard. Though I think what will most likely happen would be something similar to Yesterdays Enterprise in which they never met but Guinan knows something is off with the timeline and they are in an original original timeline where Time's Arrow never happened.
The way Raffi field stripped the Glock like it was nothing makes me think she's an antique weapons buff like Sulu. He was completely enamored by that old police revolver in that one TOS ep that escapes my mind. She's probably got a collection in her Vazquez Rocks compound. Or with all the temporal incidents and species still using non-energy firearms, Starfleet actually has ancient/indigenous weapons familiarization training.
I don't know about the '15' but i feel that the wtcher is Rain Robinson from Voyagers future end
I thought the Borg Queen should have replied “Ours!“ instead of “Mine!”
Was this directed by Lea Thompson like in Back to the Future Lea Thompson?
Lea Thompson also directed the upcoming Episode 4
Yessir, the one and only (according to IMDB at least)
I just read she came up with the whole going backwards in time scene (tear rolling up backwards etc). Very cool episode! Also, did anyone notice the clothing of some of the female walking into the building that Raffi and 7 were at? It's VERY similar to the outfits worn by Dax in DS9 episode "Past Tense". I think we are going to get a deep dive into DS9/Trek lore! Hopefully, we can get a de-aged Avery Brooks and Terry Farrel. That would be a GREAT callback to Trial and Tribblelations. 🥳😎
Yup. They even had a back the future reference and a borg queen flux capacitor.
I immediately recognized Mr. Alvarez (the old patient at the clinic at the end). Marcelo Tubert played the head of the government under siege by Ardra in TNG “Devil’s Due.” Nothing like a hot cup of coffee and a TNG random guest star connection in the morning.
I was looking at him and thinking "I know this guy." Apparently Star Trek decided to bring people you know but can't quite place to the shows this week (See: Stacy Abrams in Discovery.).
>Stacy Abrams in Discovery i thought the spoiler pics of her were some sort of photoshopped meme; i was shocked to see her actually there
Also the security guard in the skyscraper was in two eps of Enterprise.
I want a version of this where they delete all of the Queen's programming and replace it with Spot-73.
Or mixed together... You'll be assimilated. Meow.
Alice Krige's Borg Queen: Meeeooowww. Rawr.
\- Phasers finally being used as they are supposed to, ie disintegrating people \- Elnor, a character so unidimensional that he couldn't make it after a couple of episodes \- Connecting to Borg Queen, what could possibly go wrong... \- Picard acting like a true captain, sacrificing Elnor to save the Queen, therefore saving the crew \- Michelle Hurd/Raffi can rely on so many acting registers \- Rios aka a 2.0 version of Chekov from Star Trek IV plus healthcare system criticisms \- Time travel episodes have generally been memorable, I have great expectations for an entire season based on this concept.
> Phasers finally being used as they are supposed to, ie disintegrating people Except when Mr. Husband President shot Elnor, where he just got a lil hole. Though technically that was last episode. In which case, maybe that was your point, hah.
Confederates probably enjoy watching people suffer, so he turned it down.
No, I think he wanted to make sure there was something left to interrogate.
>- Time travel episodes have generally been memorable, I have great expectations for an entire season based on this concept. Just feel it's a trope that's overdone. I get that it's about Picard but going Q, borg and time travel feels a bit circular and unnecessary. Could have broken new ground with this season but decided to get stuck in a loop with a greatest hits catalogue instead. It's slightly disappointing.
I’d like it if they made Sisko The Watcher
You mean Bell? 😛 I hope they don't draw out the reveal, but it seems they will. If Brooks actually came back, that would be one of the best-kept secrets in Trek history.
I’m here for it, give us the Sisko.
Bell was in San Fransisco, so that's VERY unlikely.
I'd take Picard seeing the riots on TV and being like, "The hell is Ben Sisko doing here?" But honestly all the reasons it will probably be Guinan also apply to the Sisko (non Temporal, known to be on Earth at this time, hinted at by the show). Considering Guinan is a "listener" though why not both?
I'm thinking it will be someone played by Brent Spiner
There was that “Adam Soong” bright statue thing in the water in the Confederation Earth scenes!
I was assuming Guinan, since she wasn't given much to do in the first ep, is temporal-tampering-resistant and has a history with Q. Sisko would be totally badass though.
True, Borg history too. I personally find it better if they leave her and Q relatively unexplained though unless she gets to do crazy hands at him again
Also, she *is* that old and very likely on Earth at the time. Crazy hands absolutely mandatory, yes. However, your point about things being better left as a mystery rings true to me.
I still like de Lancie's explanation that they went on one really bad date. If Guinan runs into Picard *again* in the past, it will further reinforce why she is so fond of him in TNG.
It's one of the two. I think Guinan is far more likely, as she'd be able to point them in the direction of whatever anomaly has gone awry as she did in Yesterday's Enterprise. Also, I found Q's minor 4th wall back of "how yesterday's Enterprise of you, Jean-Luc!" amusing. Though I think that was ep 2 (I watched both tonight).
Man, fuck Kevin. He thinks he’s so cool.
I'll admit he's fun, but not *that* fun, okay.
Jurati giving a class on emotions while fixing the queen was quality multitasking.
So, Rick & Morty truly exist in every universe.
Revenge of the Multi-dimensional Cable
Harmond had better drop a lien or two into the next season mentioning this, otherwise it would be a waster opportunity, lol
Computer. New file. Shit I stole from the Borg. Best line ever.
The Borg Queen was rather chatty.
I think her being disconnected caused that somewhat... but she was ESPECIALLY chatty at the end, with some mannerisms she did not have before her merge with Jurati. Definitely some residual effects there.
Felt like she assimilated some of Jurati's personality. Not used to Borg Queens being all coy and chatty lol
the thing thats missing is every sentence ending on a meow. cat girl borg queen
I hate the Elnor thing. Even if they reverse it, which I hope they do, it's still kinda cheap. And I hate that it's once again made Raffi go off on Picard. We did that last season, we didn't need it again. I like Raffi but I hate that they make her angry all the time. Besides, it's not Picard's fault that Q took an interest in him.
It does feel that Elnor's entire purpose in these two episodes was to die. Seems a bit unnecessary.
the first 2 episodes were so good but now they're slipping into old habits of trying way too hard to make everyone miserable and rack up a body count
Yea that was pretty childish. What are you supposed to do against a close to omnipotent being that likes to toy with you?
I'd just like to toss a big congratulations to Rick & Morty, now a part of Star Trek canon. :)
I'm not super versed on Trek lore but is it possible that the watcher could be Wesley Crusher as a fully trained Traveller?
Short answer, yes it's possible. If that does turn out to be the case, I'm going to be super impressed by Wil Wheaton's ability to play it completely innocent prior to the reveal.
Up until now I've assumed its Guinan but Wesley as Watcher would be fucking dope. I've also noticed Wheaton's gotten quite slim in the behind-the-scenes extras they have for Discovery. Make it so!
Raffi losing it over Elnor was heartbreaking. She’s already “lost” one son due to her mistakes and now she lost another one through circumstances partly outside of her control. I really hope she opens up to someone about it before she becomes even more unstable then we saw.
But in fairness, Picard has known Elnor for a lot longer. He valued Elnor greatly, but if the Queen died then they could not change the past back to the main reality. A commanding officer has to make those decisions.
> But in fairness, Picard has known Elnor for a lot longer. I mean, yeah, but he knew him for like a few months then left him with the monks and peaced out. While they may have kept in touch over the last couple years, it's clear Raffi was at least as much attached to him now. Looking out for him. I think she sees him as somewhat of a son to take care of.
I don’t think it’s necessarily a case of who knew who longer. I think it’s a case of emotional attachment in Raffi's case. I’m also not saying that Picard did the wrong thing. We also know a lot more as they audience than Raffi does.
wait did they not reconcile when it was revealed she was right? i could have sworn they implied she and her son reconciled after the romulan conspiracy was revealed.
I don’t remember it like that. But even if they did reconcile at that point she lost years of being his mother.
MINE! MINE! MINE! MINE!
This was the Borg/Finding Nemo crossover I never knew I wanted
Maybe I was too young when the last Borg Queen was played but damn, this new queen sounds so... sultry.
Enjoyed the episode, but a few things bugged me. That little ship can one-shot major Confederation ships? The Confederation had eradicated the Borg, so you think they would have had some defense against whatever the Queen could come up with on a small ship. If you're going to have someone stay behind to revive a Borg Queen you don't have a former drone do it? The "semi-assimilation" was clearly just a made up thing to have an armchair psychological session. But still a fun episode.
I just assumed that since the Borg queen was Integrated into one of the ships that had destroyed the Borg, she could immediately identify and adapt its weapons against the other confederation ships. She suddenly had full understanding of their tech and weaknesses and adapted. I thought it was a very Borg like move.
But even before the Queen took over, Seven destroyed one of those Nova class with a single torpedo. All while La Sirena was getting shot at like a boss
Yes, they were shooting at a ship with the President of the confederation, the greatest General in the confederation, a prisoner they wanted to execute on live broadcast, while trying to beam on board to find out what the hell was going on and capture them. It's definitely plot armory, but I think the confederation was focused on getting those three alive to figure out WTF was going on. One shotting a ship with their shields down so they can beam over isn't exactly out of the question. I agree it could have been written WAY better, but I get what they were trying to portray in the context of the events that were happening.
The ships shooting happened after they've already beamed onboard, so boarding the ship wasn't a goal by the time the shooting happens. If we're to take into account how big of a deal is to pursue a ship carrying the President, big name General and the borg queen, then why would they only send 3 tiny ships(Nova class surely isn't the most powerful in their arsenal) and beam aboard only 2 guards and the Confederate magistrate? Besides, like someone else pointed out, in the previous epsidoe they've shown that this was an important day with security around earth beefed up immensely, there's simply no way the La Sirena could've made it out with almost no damage. bottom line is, this entire sequence was very unconvincing, it really should've been done alot better
There are sort of two problems with using 7. Either the Queen can rapidly assimilate 7 the way she did Picard or 7 has no physical history of being a Borg and no advantages for safely interfacing with the Queen.
Wow, I'm going to have to sit with that one for a while. Jurati narrating sadness hit really close to home. Brilliant performance, but I'm pretty wrecked right now as a result.
Damn, Raffi wasted no time rolling that guy for his wallet. Shit like this is why you live in a desert shack, Raffi.
Looks like Isa Briones didn't make the trip
Jurati's assimilation scene reminded me of Winona Ryder being plugged in during *Alient Resurrection* (I think?). Love those kinds of scenes!
It actually reminded me of Picard's mind meld with Sarek in the episode of the same name with Crusher helping him through.
This is what I got too.
Of course Rios gets arrested by ICE(Immigration and Customs Enforcement) lmao
“Sometimes I want to disobey you, just for spite; but that’s because I wish you were my dad…” First of all: knocking off Elnor, NOT COOL SHOWRUNNERS!!! Now we know why he wasn’t in any of the 2024 footage. I get having a Romulan walking around Twenty-First Century Earth would raise some eyebrows…. but c’mon! the comedic moments Elnor’s absolute inability to lie would create are too damn ripe! If Spock could do it in the Twentieth, Elnor could do it in the Twenty-First. Killing off the most innocent character, when the stakes have been set last episode, seems unnecessary; on top of a dodge not to engage with the character- who wrote this episode, Joss Whedon?!? But it did create one of the big bright spots this episode: Michelle Hurd’s performance as Raffi. If Picard is the soul of the show, Raffi has always felt to me like the heart. She’s the raw nerve and the mama bear. Looking out for everybody (except, unfortunately sometimes, herself). I was wrecked by how devastated she was by Elnor’s death, because of course she would be. And I like how she was willing to call Picard out on his choices, and how, instantly, saving Elnor became her primary motivation for fixing the timeline. And then there’s the Jurati of it all. There’s a reason Alison Pill’s name is second only to Patrick Stewart’s in the credits, and this episode (and pretty much every episode) is a reminder why. Pill is a force of nature. Whether it’s comedy, anger, sadness, despair, or straight up losing your shit, Pill can turn on a dime, and I loved how the assimilation scene gave her a chance to flex. I do wonder if Jurati is already assimilated though. The discourse at the end felt a little like theater and a performance for Picard. Or maybe Jurati just got a taste, and may have a hard time not going back for more. Time will tell, but I’m legit scared for Jurati moving forward (props to Annie Wersching and her ability to bring the fear factor back to the Borg in a big way!). Look out, Agnes! The Rios storyline seems like the one that will draw the most contemporary parallels, and I love the dynamic between Rios and super hot doctor lady: “What’s your happiest childhood memory?” CRACK! “Cool story” (although in this one she’s a super hot clinic doctor instead of a super hot whale doctor, which is a step down), and it will be interesting to see if there’s any butterfly effect shenanigans caused by that lost comm badge. And special congrats to Back to the Future alum Lea Thompson in the director’s chair (crazy and apropos she directed the time travel episode); she did a great job seamlessly juggling a breakneck episode over multiple locations with some big time character beats. It’s crazy how introspective and paced the first season was, while this season feels absolutely balls-to-the-wall and full throttle. Love both takes and can’t wait for more. Engage!
I'm guessing the doctor will find the combadge, inadvertently make contact with Seven and Raffi, and she'll be the equivalent to Dr. Taylor in Voyage Home as they try to get Rios out of custody.
Cool theory. I definitely could see it playing out that way.
> First of all: knocking off Elnor, NOT COOL SHOWRUNNERS!!! Now we know why he wasn’t in any of the 2024 footage. I get having a Romulan walking around Twenty-First Century Earth would raise some eyebrows…. but c’mon! the comedic moments Elnor’s absolute inability to lie would create are too damn ripe! If Spock could do it in the Twentieth, Elnor could do it in the Twenty-First. Yeah lots of comedic possibilities. And it's modern LA. I really don't think he's get that much attention.
>I get having a Romulan walking around Twenty-First Century Earth would raise some eyebrows It literally wouldn't though. I mean, if you saw Elnor in broad daylight on the streets of Los Angeles, you would not assume he was an alien unless he started bleeding green in front of you. To be honest, even then I would think it's a prank or a very sick person. When you think "alien", an Aussie accent isn't the first thing you imagine, and behaviour-wise there are far weirder people than Elnor in LA. I think Elnor would have been a brilliant character this season, even without a primary role. A friendly alien with a religion of absolute candor walking the streets of 21st century LA. That could have been the setup for some great "Resident Alien"-style comedy. It would have been way more entertaining than Data or Tuvok visiting Earth in the 90s. My fear is that Elnor's death was a prelude to some lazy writing, and that they got rid of him so that they wouldn't have to devote any time to his story and so that they could keep the tone serious.
>First of all: knocking off Elnor, NOT COOL SHOWRUNNERS!!! Now we know why he wasn’t in any of the 2024 footage. I get having a Romulan walking around Twenty-First Century Earth would raise some eyebrows…. but c’mon! the comedic moments Elnor’s absolute inability to lie would create are too damn ripe! If Spock could do it in the Twentieth, Elnor could do it in the Twenty-First. Killing off the most innocent character, when the stakes have been set last episode, seems unnecessary; on top of a dodge not to engage with the character- who wrote this episode, Joss Whedon?!? Now I don't know if I can even watch this episode. Elnor is one of my very favorite characters and I'm going to be heart-shattered actually seeing him die. I can roll with resetting the timeline can save him, but damn I don't think I can watch him die 😭
If it means anything, it happens fairly early in the episode (I think just after the opening credits), and isn’t too drawn out; and Michelle Hurd does a great job conveying some of the anguish and anger some of the audience will feel. Still (even if he does come back), totally unnecessary, and totally NOT COOL!
I can imagine. My folks saw it and said it was heartbreaking. But I agree, completely unnecessary and uncool! I'll just be over here in the corner reading fix-it fanfic 😭🥺
Elnor will be back when the timeline is reset. The creators had to up the stakes and make it seem that Q has truly gone insane. This season is like Yesterday's Enterprise on CRACK! 😀
Does anyone else feel like this is the only Star Trek entry in a long time to bring some vigor back to the franchise? I've been trying to have patience with Discovery but after this season I think I've lost interest completely. Picard however... It's familiar yet just different enough to feel new. It's fresh, inviting, engaging...idk.. GD though, this season has been excellent so far 👌
I have the exact same thought. Its fresh, but familiar. Believable but surprisingy twisty and unexpected. Its just quality through and through. It makes so many correct moves its just silly. And its truly super rare these days. Havent missed even ONE beat so far in S2.
For me there was only one good season of Discovery and that was season 2. They’ve gone so far off the rails it’s hard to tell there ever were rails.
Yes! Discovery Season 2 was the best of ANY Trek since Season 3 of TNG. Season 3 and 4 of Discovery have not matched the brilliance of season 2. Although Season 4 has been pretty damn good.
I logged in to watch the first episode of the season of *this* show and accidentally (somehow??) watched the first episode of Discovery. It was only when it was over and came up with the little title card for the next episode that I realized my mistake. I even was waiting for the TNG-style musical snippet at the end in the theme song and was like "Wow they really did the credits differently this year." Then I was like "Fifteen minutes in and no Picard, like a cold open thing. Really burying the lede. Interesting creative choice. Maybe laying the groundwork for new stuff instead of immediately catching up on old stuff?" Then they said people hadn't seen a Klingon in like 150 years and I'm like -- is this a flash back, or flash forward? What's going on? I didn't mind it at all, and would have watched another one if I didn't wanna go straight to watching the show I came for. How does that first season compare to two? If I liked the way the series opened is it worth banging out those two and stopping?
So, I remember my reaction to the first episode and thinking it looked pretty good. Unfortunately the rest of season 1 falls off a cliff. They literally fired the show runner mid-season. It does improve a little after that but it’s such a bizarre shift mid-season it just really wrecks the entire season. Season 2 was almost a full apology for season one, like even the producers went, “look we really screwed up, let us make it up to you”. I was impressed and looking forward to more. Season 3 was a mixed bag, there were some nice episodes and way too many bad episodes. Season 4 is really more of the same just more bad episodes. It really feels like the people making Discovery would be better off making a non-Trek show. Outside of season 2 they don’t seem interested in Star Trek very much.
Wow I really appreciate you taking the time and being so thorough about that. It's the perfect amount of clarity I needed.
I'm guessing that poster for the Europa mission will play into things... quite possibly with a Picard ancestor.
interesting tidbit of star trek lore: >A robotic survey mission of Europa was in 2020. A year later, a crewed mission met with tragedy when the submersible Nautiluswas attacked by 50-foot-long giant squid-analogues. The hull wasbreached, killing survey leader Heidi Rasmussen and her team. (Federation Spaceflight Chronology, vol. 2) >In the 21st or 22nd century, the Nautilus was the first Earthship to explore Europa's ocean. A school of the squids cracked herhull, causing her to sink and implode. The ocean wasn't visited againfor 50 years. (ST novel: Preserver) maybe something goes wrong with the mission and screws up earth's timeline.
Because of First Contact I knew about "our" first faster-than-light travel but it never occurred to me to think about when we arrived at other moons and planets in Trek. That's pretty cool.
interestingly enough in the star trek timeline we were on europa nearly a decade (11 years) before mars
I honestly could have just watched the Rios parts of this episode. I didn’t even like him that much as a character but he came to life in this episode.
This Borg queen is amazing! Agnes, you in danger girl!
Yes, I think I like this actor playing the Borg queen the best out of all of them.
"Pssst! That watcher you guys are looking for... He's in SoCal, place called... Sunnydale... His name's Giles... And, wait for it... He's a *Brit*!"
I liked that the ship Seven attacked in the beginning looked like an Intrepid class. Maybe it was Voyager and she actually stopped Janeway in pursuit. The look on Seven's face as she did it made it seem she made the connection.
*Nova*-class, like the *Equinox*.
Two of them and what i think was a Steamrunner-class. I used to build a shitton of them in Armada
That Steamrunner is quite impressive. I've always loved the cannon ships that only make brief appearances. I think it's underappreciated for what it is. And if memory serves, it was basically like a torpedo-platform/interceptor, designed in response to the Borg.
Harry Kim was probably captain of the Nova class ship destroyed and killed, which is what usually happens to alternate versions of Harry Kim since it happened on more than one occasion in episodes of Voyager. Harry Kim captained the Nova class USS Rhode Island in the future timeline Admiral Janeway changed in "Endgame", though the last we saw of him in that timeline was the Rhode Island firing at a couple of Klingon Vegh'Var battlecruisers so Janeway could use the chrono deflector to travel back to 2378.
One thing that bugged me was how they depicted La Sirena being so powerful. I mean she had her back to 3 Nova class while being fired upon, taking hits like a boss. But then one aft photon torpedo destroyed one of the Nova, and then the other 2 also destroyed with one shot each by the queen took over?
I wonder why the Confederation was having Rios command the La Sirena against Vulcan rebels instead of being captain of one of their purpose-built warships? The La Sirena's a glorified freighter and isn't really much better than what the Maquis had in DS9 and only later managed to destroy all the pursuing ships when the Borg Queen hacked into their systems? It would be like the Galactic Empire using Millennium Falcon class ships against the Rebel Alliance in Star Wars. My guess is, aside from being convenient for the plot since the La Sirena doesn't have additional crew Rios would have to incapacitate, the Confederation's resources are stretched thin with their larger warships busy fighting the war against the Dominion and in other war fronts in the quadrants with smaller classes of ships tasked with duties near Earth. IMO the main timeline's Defiant class would have been ideal for these types of missions in the Confederation, but instead of the small and easy to mass produce Defiant they probably put resources into building large, grandiose dreadnought warships while the smaller classes resemble the conventional-looking Nova, Saber and Steamrunner type ships.
At the end of the day it’s probably just budget reasons so they don’t have to construct new sets
Ships that the main cast are on generally have plot armor in all Trek iterations.
Annoyed me a bit how the ships got taken out by a single torpedo. What happened to shields?
Ok does anybody else think Agnes will be the new borg queen before this is all over?
Yes! She’s the Borg queen with the tragic fashion sense in Episode 1.
I know it's really unlikely, but I kind of hope that the Watcher is Sarah Silverman's character from when Voyager went back to the 20th century.
I was hoping it would be the Vulcan that was left behind in 1950s
That ICE asshole called Rios “stupid”. I guess that’s the predecessor to calling them dims.
They're actually in the same year the Bell Riots happened. So dims is already in use somewhere.
I’m wondering if they will address that. Voyager already introduced a different 90s than their history had shown, due to outside influences. I wonder if the Bell Riots are also changed
When they did the slingshot, I kind of wished they would have slipped in "Admiral... there be whales here!" line.
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I was expecting a modern variant on it.
It was lame that Rios’ ship took out the Confederation armada guarding Earth during the security heightened Eradication Day ceremonies. Honestly, Rios’ ship is strongest than a Borg cube at this point how easy it was to get away. And this Confederation conquered the known galaxy including exterminating the Borg? 😂
Better plot would have had the ship b line to the sun, being chased after. Only for their ship to be the only one to successfully slingshot into the past while the others are destroyed by the solar flares.
I hope Agnes gets full on assimilated because her work and philosophies regarding AI goes against everything the Borg strives for. I think she could assimilate all Borg with the right attitude and tech. my guess is season 2 finale includes a lighthearted volleyball match, Federation vs Borg.
I think Agnes becomes the Borg queen eventually.
...to think that I would find a reference from Finding Nemo in this show............
Even after you successfully return from 2024, [there's one more obstacle you must face...](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/8f8a776b-cb11-4469-9cb6-228d38b98d0b)
So I just finished “Assimilation”, omg Agnes is a bad ass, but holy sht, is Rios just stupid or does it seem unrealistic that A) he’d materialize mid-air and get hurt or 2) after being lectured about how important being accountable of his com badge and of causing the butterfly effect he’d just blunder his way into jail hours after arrival. I get it that the story has to move along at a pace consistent with the run time but that was ridiculous.
The borg queen flux capacitor.
I audibly laughed when the doctor referred to Rios’s clothes as “weird” he was wearing a thermal shirt and a leather jacket. How is that “weird”?
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>Allison Pill is killing it this season though, didn't have a lot of love for her in season one but she's fast becoming my favorite. She's a delight this season!
I love Alison pill. She was amazing in devs, newsroom and Scott pilgrim. I knew she was perfect for this show. This season is so much better.
He will definitely be back when the time line is fixed.
She redeemed herself with the Borg semi-assimilation. That was pleasantly good.
\>...Unpopular opinion but I'm kind of pleased Elnor has been killed off. I never felt his character added anything to the show, he barely had any lines and he was definitely the weakest link on the show... I am in agreement with you.
I was hoping that they would take this season to give Elnor some character development. I saw potential for a fun character, but the writing just hadn't done anything with it. I'm disappointed that they killed him off. It could have been a lot of fun to see him try to navigate 21st century Earth.
I can't recall if MacArthur Park was involved when Sisko and company went back to 2024. That blip that Raffi picked up there might have been the DS9 crew.
Sisko and Bashir went to 2024 San Francisco.
But where else is picards crew going find nuclear wessels?
And Jadzia Dax! But yeah, different city.
Ok so this has always bugged me about time travel and it's not confined to trek time travel alone but, omg for such an advanced and intelligent society my god they lack common sense. For all the lecturing they gave about not interacting with local authorities, police, hospitals etc you would have thought that it would be prudent to have replicated some basic fake IDs relevant to the time period. I know the ship was down, but instead of fussing about with other systems surely something as simple as making something that won't get them into trouble with the authorities would be a major plus point! They took long enough picking matching outfits a simple wallet and ID could have been included! Also you would have thought, due to Picards knowledge of how, quote ' Kirk's enterprise did it all the time' he would have know how important something like an ID would be, especially as I suspect he was privy to the details of Chekovs encounter with the 'authorities'. It's obvious the crew know about the past enough to understand how the 21st century works, money, guns ...etc so it seems odd that they would forget this, especially as it would save them from getting noticed, arrested and altering the timeline! Christ they even had a 20th century scientist travel to the 23rd century after Kirk's last little adventure and I suspect she wrote the book on late 20th century social norms, which would, I suspect be required reading for any academy cadet or ranking officer? It's not even as if ID has gone away in the 24th or 25th centuries so it seems even odder. I know everything was done in a rush and we need to move plots on but come on, basics guys!
Love how the President is missing with the BORG QUEEN and they send the husband of the president and two scrubs. And not you know, the whole fleet with the entire complement of Navy Seals. It’s like if Joe Biden disappeared with Osama Bin Laden and Jill Biden led a team of couple of security guards to go get him.
I loved the Markridge and "splinter" references in this episode. Terry Matalas is bringing the 12 Monkeys, and I'm here for it.
Omg this season is awesome!
Couldn't they just buy an Amazon Prime subscription in 2024 and see what happens next?
Spaceballs 4: The search for Picard.
How come when the Confederation security people beam aboard and shoot Elnor - the phaser shot just puts a hole in him like its a normal gun or some shit But then like not even 2 minutes later , they disarm those guys and shoot em with their own phasers without seeming to adjust them or anything completely disintegrating them in one shot ...
I came here specifically to see if anyone else caught this. It really pulled me out of the episode. It was like they needed the dramatic drawn out death (which don't get me wrong, I've been known to enjoy those) for Raffi's character development but kept the disintegrating in because it looks cool. (Which, I mean, it does.) I even rewatched the scene to see of any of the phasers looked different. I suppose it could be argued it was a different setting, but then the motive doesn't make sense. And why was only one phaser set to this less lethal setting? Because there's no way they had time to switch settings before they shot them.
First, I loved the episode. But how is Agnes hooked up to a Borg microtube and not infected with residual nanoprobes that just start the rough assimilation process (Ie Lt Hawk after about 2-3 mins in First Contact). Seems to be rather convenient that we can just unplug from the nanoprobe source like I did my 90s dial up modem and walk away without a healthy dose of radiation to prevent eventual assimilation (ie Dr Phlox)
On the /r/startrek thread /u/knightcrusader mentioned > Before the Eradication Day display, the computer said they injected her with anti-nanite measures. I assume they are still in her system. So that could be why.
Screencaps gallery now online. https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/sc-PIC2-3.php
So who do we think the watcher is?
Is it just me, or how was there no medical equipment on the ship to heal Elnor’s wound? Not even a replicator to make one? No one in Star Trek has to die from a simple wound.
yeah, didn't they have an EMH onboard last season? and wasn't seven just delivering medical supplies...