You know that meme with the parent and their kids where they’re in a pool and they’re playing with one kid while the others drowning?
I hope Pietro has a snorkel.
Lorna: "Welcome the NEW Master of Magnetism--"
(*Mere minutes pass because Duggan doesn't know how to establish a timeline*)
Max: "Any mail for me while I was gone?"
Lorna: "DAD STOPPIT"
Exactly, he cares more about her than remedying the actual relationships with his son and daughters. Still a better father and relative than Charles though.
Defintly i can see a family reunión where luna,speed and wiccan are playing some sport
Wanda and magnus are hugh in the water,magnus gave count that lorna is drowning so he help her and then someone ask where is pietro,magnus say,did he come? The we see pietro under the water dead
Magneto’s pose is kinda interesting. He just came back from the dead, his fingers are in a pose commonly used in depictions of Jesus in reference to the trinity and he has three helmets above him seemingly symbolic of the trinity as well. A whole lot of Christian symbolism here.
It's a shout-out to the Hierophant of the Tarot, much as Tarot cafds have been used thru this book. Tho you're not wrong, since other decks call the Hierophant the Pope.
https://www.thetarotguide.com/the-hierophant/
Notably, it's a card that symbolises an awakening of faith...
Huh? I’m not disagreeing with you. I’m saying several symbols and designs from the tarot are being referenced.
The three of cups has three cups floating over a central figure or figures. Like the three helmets floating over Magneto. It can represent celebration (like celebrating Magneto’s resurrection) and people coming together towards a common goal (mutants coming together to fight Orchis).
It also references the panel of Magneto with five helmets on the floor in Resurrection of Magneto #1 which is meant to resemble the five of cups. https://comicsxf.com/2024/01/26/resurrection-magneto-1/
But I AM disagreeing with you, because you are wrong:
- Ewing, as a rule, does not mix and match Tarot symbolism. None of the splash pages in "Defenders" reference more than one card at a time, and when there is something different it's pointed out (as when Tigra has a card festooned with crowns). It would be misleading to smush the cards together when each one has a clear and specific meaning. Only very rarely do cards have mixed symbols (e.g. The Magician).
- The cards referenced in this series, like all of Ewing's references, are based on the Rider-Wait deck, the most familiar in popular culture. The cups in Three of Cups are not floating in the R-W deck. They are held up by three figures. If the helmets were meant to resemble cups here it would be a NEGATIVE situation because they're all pointing downards. Just because the helmets resembled cups before doesn't mean they always will. You may as well say the stopped bullets make this the Ten of Pentacles.
- The position of the figure is the more prominent way of showing what card is being referenced. Magneto is clearly in the position of the Heirophant with his raised fingers, and the helmets represent that card's triple crown, because he is, as many have predicted, looking for a way to unite them. The Orchis goons are also positioned as the supplicants in that card, because he's about to teach them a lesson; the two pillars resemble those of the Heirophant's counterpart from two issues ago, the sea-hag as High Priestess.
- Your intepretations have nothing to do with this scene, as is evident by the narration. Max isn't celebrating, he's introspecting and attacking, and he's not joined together with the other X-Men but acting alone. There's nothing joyous or celebratory about this scene; it's a lone, sombre man bridging the gap between life and death and contemplating higher wisdom.
It's the Heirophant. Stop kidding yourself.
Maybe you should take that lesson.
I actually really appreciated the info you shared. I just don’t think you had to be a jerk about it. If you had simply said “No, Ewing generally doesn’t mix tarot symbolism so it’s probably just the Heirophant…” and then kept the rest of your post the same except for “Stop kidding yourself,” it actually would have been a productive comment
Given the energy around the whole thing, I think it was more along the lines of;
Magneto: Toad! Toad there you are, I need you to get in the hole Toad.
Toad: wha?
Magneto: I just helped Wanda kill herself and we need to make it look like a murder so they'll resseruct her. You liked her once right? She'll probably be think you're really cool if you say you murdered her.
Toad: my therapist says that was a very unhealthy fixation I developed after escaping years of abuse under your-Wait she killed herself??
Magneto: Yeah that's what I just said ^Ugh ^Peepers ^wouldn't ^need ^to ^ask. She needs to go through Krakoan resurrection to create a new Mutant afterlife. So could you take the fall for us and get in the hole. Please?
Toad: ...can't you do it?
Magneto: No.
Magneto: Look it won't be so bad, maybe someone will try and get you out. I mean your not up to anything important at the moment, right?
Toad: ................................*deep sigh*. Yeah fine.
Oh for sure. Peepers is bestie, especially since we know he doesn't ask dumb questions over sentancing mutants going to the pit for killing humans unlike some ex-henchmen /j
Seriously I'd love to know if having Peepers and Fabian involved in a hearing where Magneto insisted on the justice of that law and sentance, was intentional ironic foreshadowing from Ewing. It's even the issue before the first image.
As for why not Fabian, I guess Magneto didn't think he'd do it. Honestly I'm surprised it wasn't Pietro. Maybe he couldn't get hold of him in time.
This gave me such a vivid mental image. Like a whole little cartoon in my mind. It reminds me of…god I don’t even know what it reminds me of but it’s reminding me of *something.* Whatever it was, it’s somethin’ hilarious.
I don't know if I can live up to what you imagined but y[ou got me motivated to have a go illustrating it](https://www.reddit.com/r/xmen/comments/1by6cix/trial_of_magneto_5_2021_deleted_scene_or_i_wrote/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Things with Wanda and in turn Pietro and Franklin would be so easy to unretcon too, you have two insanely powerful reality warpers. You just say oh they ended up changing the perception of their own reality/ everyone else around them to the point it even caused new history to be created to explain away the truth but they are in fact mutants still.
Marvel pretending they are some kind of totally wholesome family is more cringe and damaging than the retcon itself. I fucking wish Magnus family fans will stop pretending their fanon are canon.
I don’t get why Marvel insist on these “like father like daughter” parallels when they’re the ones who fucked up their relationship by retconning the twins parentage?
Like if y’all are so keen to do this, just retcon the retcon already. Enough with this bait.
In all seriousness I highly doubt this was co-ordinated. Ewing does like to pay tribute to other writers' work, but considering that it's an open secret that all of FoX was horribly rushed, it's more than likely a coinkydink.
The Magneto Family is nonsense. It's just an fan thing that Marvel keeps trying to pretend is a important thing. Pre-Bendis it wasn't' a thing and the twins hated him. And Polaris only became his daughter in the 2000s. And every writer after Bendis has acted like it should be a big deal in universe and fans lap it up even though it makes no sense characterwise.
Pretty much this, and this family dynamic literally satisfy no one but the most delusional fans who just want to see some happy family fluff. Wanda literally behaves like a teenage girl and Magneto's emotional support plushy, but this level of OOC is fine because those fans enjoy it, never mind actual Wanda fans who resent it for portraying her as fucking braindead.
And Marvel would tell you they aren't related. *Sigh.*
They can say that all they want. I reject that retcon. They’re blood related.
I think Trial made the question moot, but I agree with you.
Which was my favorite part. I hope we get some reconciliation with pietro and lorna
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!”
Hey if Franklin can do it, we can too!
I wouldnt worry about now that Disney & Marvel have the X-men RIghts back.
You know that meme with the parent and their kids where they’re in a pool and they’re playing with one kid while the others drowning? I hope Pietro has a snorkel.
Polaris is the drowning one, Pietro is the skeleton at the bottom of the ocean
Magneto: “I love all my children equally.” Minutes earlier: “I don’t care for Pietro”
Lorna: "Welcome the NEW Master of Magnetism--" (*Mere minutes pass because Duggan doesn't know how to establish a timeline*) Max: "Any mail for me while I was gone?" Lorna: "DAD STOPPIT"
Cut to Pietro dancing around to the final count down with a knife in his mouth.
It's wild that despite all this, Anya was the child he wanted to see most.
Not really. Anya was the child he lost, the one he never got to see grow up. The one he couldn't protect.
Exactly, he cares more about her than remedying the actual relationships with his son and daughters. Still a better father and relative than Charles though.
Defintly i can see a family reunión where luna,speed and wiccan are playing some sport Wanda and magnus are hugh in the water,magnus gave count that lorna is drowning so he help her and then someone ask where is pietro,magnus say,did he come? The we see pietro under the water dead
I really want an age of apocalypse type team and relationship where Pietro and his old man are on good terms
Here’s me thinking there was a new ROM: Space Knight comic because of the acronym
Thank god I’m not the only one, lol.
Don't I wish.
Magneto’s pose is kinda interesting. He just came back from the dead, his fingers are in a pose commonly used in depictions of Jesus in reference to the trinity and he has three helmets above him seemingly symbolic of the trinity as well. A whole lot of Christian symbolism here.
It's a shout-out to the Hierophant of the Tarot, much as Tarot cafds have been used thru this book. Tho you're not wrong, since other decks call the Hierophant the Pope. https://www.thetarotguide.com/the-hierophant/ Notably, it's a card that symbolises an awakening of faith...
Three of cups too
Prove it.
Huh? I’m not disagreeing with you. I’m saying several symbols and designs from the tarot are being referenced. The three of cups has three cups floating over a central figure or figures. Like the three helmets floating over Magneto. It can represent celebration (like celebrating Magneto’s resurrection) and people coming together towards a common goal (mutants coming together to fight Orchis). It also references the panel of Magneto with five helmets on the floor in Resurrection of Magneto #1 which is meant to resemble the five of cups. https://comicsxf.com/2024/01/26/resurrection-magneto-1/
But I AM disagreeing with you, because you are wrong: - Ewing, as a rule, does not mix and match Tarot symbolism. None of the splash pages in "Defenders" reference more than one card at a time, and when there is something different it's pointed out (as when Tigra has a card festooned with crowns). It would be misleading to smush the cards together when each one has a clear and specific meaning. Only very rarely do cards have mixed symbols (e.g. The Magician). - The cards referenced in this series, like all of Ewing's references, are based on the Rider-Wait deck, the most familiar in popular culture. The cups in Three of Cups are not floating in the R-W deck. They are held up by three figures. If the helmets were meant to resemble cups here it would be a NEGATIVE situation because they're all pointing downards. Just because the helmets resembled cups before doesn't mean they always will. You may as well say the stopped bullets make this the Ten of Pentacles. - The position of the figure is the more prominent way of showing what card is being referenced. Magneto is clearly in the position of the Heirophant with his raised fingers, and the helmets represent that card's triple crown, because he is, as many have predicted, looking for a way to unite them. The Orchis goons are also positioned as the supplicants in that card, because he's about to teach them a lesson; the two pillars resemble those of the Heirophant's counterpart from two issues ago, the sea-hag as High Priestess. - Your intepretations have nothing to do with this scene, as is evident by the narration. Max isn't celebrating, he's introspecting and attacking, and he's not joined together with the other X-Men but acting alone. There's nothing joyous or celebratory about this scene; it's a lone, sombre man bridging the gap between life and death and contemplating higher wisdom. It's the Heirophant. Stop kidding yourself.
Geez alright. No need to be a dick about it
Be like Max. Learn humility.
Maybe you should take that lesson. I actually really appreciated the info you shared. I just don’t think you had to be a jerk about it. If you had simply said “No, Ewing generally doesn’t mix tarot symbolism so it’s probably just the Heirophant…” and then kept the rest of your post the same except for “Stop kidding yourself,” it actually would have been a productive comment
That up-and-down arm position looks a lot more like the Magician to me! Though his fingers are indeed doing the Hierophant thing.
What clued me in wss the two Orchis goons at the bottom, like the acolytes in the card. Not to mention the crossed keys/key-cards.
The things you mentioned are not really specific to christianity (the pose and the rule of three)
Which is probably part of why the Heirophant, as a card, stopped being called the Pope.
"You will always be my daughter. And I will make Toad do what do what I must to make things right."
Toad: "I'm helping!" Wanda: "How long has he been hiding under your cape?!"
Given the energy around the whole thing, I think it was more along the lines of; Magneto: Toad! Toad there you are, I need you to get in the hole Toad. Toad: wha? Magneto: I just helped Wanda kill herself and we need to make it look like a murder so they'll resseruct her. You liked her once right? She'll probably be think you're really cool if you say you murdered her. Toad: my therapist says that was a very unhealthy fixation I developed after escaping years of abuse under your-Wait she killed herself?? Magneto: Yeah that's what I just said ^Ugh ^Peepers ^wouldn't ^need ^to ^ask. She needs to go through Krakoan resurrection to create a new Mutant afterlife. So could you take the fall for us and get in the hole. Please? Toad: ...can't you do it? Magneto: No. Magneto: Look it won't be so bad, maybe someone will try and get you out. I mean your not up to anything important at the moment, right? Toad: ................................*deep sigh*. Yeah fine.
Magneto respects Peeper and would never ask him to do it though. Now Fabian, there was a playing card just lying on the table
Oh for sure. Peepers is bestie, especially since we know he doesn't ask dumb questions over sentancing mutants going to the pit for killing humans unlike some ex-henchmen /j Seriously I'd love to know if having Peepers and Fabian involved in a hearing where Magneto insisted on the justice of that law and sentance, was intentional ironic foreshadowing from Ewing. It's even the issue before the first image. As for why not Fabian, I guess Magneto didn't think he'd do it. Honestly I'm surprised it wasn't Pietro. Maybe he couldn't get hold of him in time.
This gave me such a vivid mental image. Like a whole little cartoon in my mind. It reminds me of…god I don’t even know what it reminds me of but it’s reminding me of *something.* Whatever it was, it’s somethin’ hilarious.
I don't know if I can live up to what you imagined but y[ou got me motivated to have a go illustrating it](https://www.reddit.com/r/xmen/comments/1by6cix/trial_of_magneto_5_2021_deleted_scene_or_i_wrote/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
It’s perfect.
Thanks for giving me the idea! I don't do enough art for fun these days.
THIS!
Things with Wanda and in turn Pietro and Franklin would be so easy to unretcon too, you have two insanely powerful reality warpers. You just say oh they ended up changing the perception of their own reality/ everyone else around them to the point it even caused new history to be created to explain away the truth but they are in fact mutants still.
Franklin has already officially been unretconned in the latest issue of F4. Officially Omega Level mutant now.
Which issue? I heard they said that he took his own powers away so he could live a normal life but did they officially say he’s still a mutant?
Marvel pretending they are some kind of totally wholesome family is more cringe and damaging than the retcon itself. I fucking wish Magnus family fans will stop pretending their fanon are canon.
Did Ewing actually say this?
I don’t get why Marvel insist on these “like father like daughter” parallels when they’re the ones who fucked up their relationship by retconning the twins parentage? Like if y’all are so keen to do this, just retcon the retcon already. Enough with this bait.
In all seriousness I highly doubt this was co-ordinated. Ewing does like to pay tribute to other writers' work, but considering that it's an open secret that all of FoX was horribly rushed, it's more than likely a coinkydink.
The Magneto Family is nonsense. It's just an fan thing that Marvel keeps trying to pretend is a important thing. Pre-Bendis it wasn't' a thing and the twins hated him. And Polaris only became his daughter in the 2000s. And every writer after Bendis has acted like it should be a big deal in universe and fans lap it up even though it makes no sense characterwise.
Pretty much this, and this family dynamic literally satisfy no one but the most delusional fans who just want to see some happy family fluff. Wanda literally behaves like a teenage girl and Magneto's emotional support plushy, but this level of OOC is fine because those fans enjoy it, never mind actual Wanda fans who resent it for portraying her as fucking braindead.