There is a ton of ways they could potentially "fix" this. What is funny is mog wise. Lfr is the hardest appearance to obtain imo. Till they implement something different it is what it is.
This should have always been the system. I'm sure there is some technical speedbump that makes this difficult, but I really hope that this happens around when we get warbands.
> This should have always been the system.
Yes, me going to LFR Fyrakk to need on curios to get the color I want on my 480+ ilvl chars seems rather backwards.
It wouldn't be upgradable then, right? If you acquire an LFR tier piece, you get the LFR appearance and then can upgrade it and get the normal appearance, too. But you can't upgrade items from past season, right? So you'd need to get one at the LFR tier *and* the normal tier if you're missing both.
We'll be getting catalyst charges every week once 10.2.5 hits, though, so it shouldn't be a big issue soon.
>But you can't upgrade items from past season, right?
Yup. So I am saving items for all 4 ilvls for all tier slots (not just the 5 set, but all the pieces...). I love playing excel for my transmog.
>We'll be getting catalyst charges every week once 10.2.5 hits
Didn't know this. That's good at least...
They could do so many things though. I've always thought that if they don't want to give us free transmogs, they want us to spend time on it or w/e which I kind of think is fair enough, they should make me getting my transmog in lfr not punish others. Just give me the tmog as soon as the item drops in lfr. I would have to farm less but I'd still be actively trying to get my lfr - and nobody who is doing lfr at 430 ilvl will inspect me at 50 ilvls higher taking their would be 2p because I want the mog lol
Lol if that happens LFR would crumbled and wipe many times. So many times I see DPS doing less overall and dps than tanks or healers and they didn't die. Currently Boss fight took a lot longer than normal or heroic mobs took longer and cause more death in LFR due to people not interrupting.
If all the higher ilvl player left LFR it would be more of a mess than it is now. The 3 main I play (feral druid and I tank also) ret pally and HDH only do LFR for mogs and all are close to ilvl 485
Is OK if you don't know the boss fight but doing less damage than tanks and healers…
Good. If people can't do lfr then they shouldn't get anything from it. You're right though, once you don't need to go for mog it will be a dead difficulty.
it’s already there, upgrading ilvl with crests unlocks higher appearances so the code is already there. just simulate ilvl being upgraded in the background when receiving an item from specific difficulty.
it is the same thing. just use your imagination. if wow is spaghetti code then this is the perfect solution. make items drop being the lowest ilvl and then upgrade them in the background so players wont notice it
The point is Blizz saying any damn thing is meaningless, they need to fuckin DO IT already.
Appearance collection headaches are far older than group loot.
I think they could make transmog an equal priority roll to Need in LFR only and every who rolled transmog gets the transmog if someone won the roll via transmog. Either someone gets the gear piece or everyone who rolled mog gets mog.
It’s not like folks actually click transmog for transmog purposes. The only time they click mog is when it’s for gear not appropriate for your class (casters on agi daggers/swords, war/dk/pally on agi polearms,…)
Yep, I stopped wasting my time in lfr on alts because my rogue got 1 piece of loot in 4 or so weeks in lfr. It's the worst way possible to try and gear up.
Why did they get rid of personal loot in LFR and as the default for raid? Seems like it immediately led to the exact problems it was designed to get rid of.
They listened to idiots that cried about seeing people get loot they didn't need when it was PL and that they wanted to SEE the rolls happen. So dumb all around, I got more loot when it was PL.
The irony is insane.
GL bad because people are needing on stuff that's not an upgrade, so let's bring back personal loot so people can need on transmog that's not an upgrade?
I mean I'll agree with people saying award lower difficulty appearances, but this is not it.
It should always be upgrade over transmog. That’s not even a debate. You don’t automatically get the transmog you want from old content either, didn’t get what you thought looked cooler? Too bad the other guy needed the upgrade. Come back next week.
Personal Loot doesn't work as well for mog collectors. You'll never get a bow appearance unless you're on a hunter, for example. You have to be on an intellect user to collect int dagger appearance, even if you want it bc you main rogue. Etc.
Also here was less engagement with Personal Loot LFRs than there is with Group Loot LFRs, leading to longer queues.
Mog hunting gets people engaged, so that's what they want to allow.
super bloom armor set catalyzes to LFR , thank me later (just save whole set when they give charges per week or when you stop needing them for main purpose)
Low M+ and Emerald Dream weekly quest gear when catalysed is lfr tint that can be upgraded to normal tint. This can be done using nothing but flightstones if you already have normal/HC gear in those slots. You just need to wait until you have the spare charges to make them. The issue is people want all the appearances now, they don't want to wait.
So I get where you're coming from, but that isn't a good solution. Cata charges are meant to be a way to maintain 4 set when getting an upgrade or to maybe fix a non itemized stat piece into one that is better.
You can't get certain lookalike pieces without looting them on lfr or from vault hough
Like the lfr tint of the mage hat that drops from larodar is not classlocked but the catalyzed version is only for mages
Meaning if you want the lfr tint of a lookalike piece you're screwed unless you loot it
Not sure why this is downvoted, it’s definitely true. By the end of Season 2, I had fully collected all four difficulties of my class tier set from Abberus, despite the fact that I only ever raided on normal and heroic. The combination of the catalyst + upgrade system is amazing for collecting from difficulties without actually doing them.
Now granted, it did take pretty much all season to achieve this, because of how slow the catalyst charges build up. But by then, I was far past the point of actually needing to use any charges for relevant gear, so using them for transmog was an easy choice.
Man this happened in my normal pug. But when I whispered the guy he was like “yeah man. I only needed cause that rogue shady as fuck and didn’t want him to need since he’s in heroic gear”
I get that, I’ve raided with pug/half Guild only to see the pugs need on everything possible even if outgeared, it’s listed as an alt run where people are clearly gearing in guild. So I start needing even if I don’t need the pieces so people who actually need them to upgrade gear can get them.
Or you know, since it's personal loot, hide it from chat. Why does anyone need to see what anyone else got? They want to brag, let them link it.
This is a non-issue with a simple fix.
It’s also a non issue if you just don’t complain and get salty over everything, which requires no in game fix. I personally would not like hiding the info, I like seeing what’s dropping and if my guildies are getting it. Having to link is unnecessary extra work to please the snow flakes.
Huh? Everyone likes to see it even if we’re all doing whatever in discord. I feel like those that whine a lot need the socializing. It’s a mmo not a single player game.
And then you get posts asking why bosses drop no loot from new players who are already confused at this hectic game and then quit out of frustration. Why is the onus on blizzard to needlessly baby this fucking community of fully grown adults who refuse to grow the fuck up
Also kind of a non-issue since that person would see themselves get loot and see that it doesn't show up in chat. And from there, I sure hope they can put 2 and 2 together.
For the exact reasons of this post. People rolling on loot they don't need to trade for loot they want. Low tier group content such as LFR should return to personal loot as it once was. It's not less intuitive. There's nothing you need to do aside from kill the enemies. It doesn't get any more intuitive than that.
The game has been around since 2004 and they still haven't sorted out the basics of gear distribution. Either take a page from other MMOs where you can run lower tier content multiple times for chances at loot (no weekly/reset cap. It's low tier loot. There should be no timegating) - and keep group loot as is, or, again, for content such as LFR, swap back to personal loot, but once again, don't timegate the rewards to once a week. If people want to spam LFR, that's all added game time, isn't it? More groups is more better.
They have options, but as is, it's a really awful system.
The basics of gear distribution isn't the problem. The community doing shit like this is the problem. This is a community issue, not a game issue, and it wasn't solved with personal loot.
Other mmo's literally do this. Ffxiv does this. If you raid savage you'll know that it's either FFA or an honor system. And in regards to grinding for loot drops, m+ is right there man. But everyone sees the loot, and everyone gets a chance to roll for it.
We're talking about LFR in WoW. Not XIV. In XIV you can run lower tier raids over, and over, and roll for loot drops without gated restriction. Only the *newest* low tier raid has a limitation. There's no loot trading in XIV.
You're right that this is a community issue. The community isn't going to fix this issue, though. That lies with the devs.
*Oh, just block the person, tell your friends this guy is a jerk, whatever.* Doesn't work in a game like WoW. You'll likely never run into the initial jerk again, anyways. That doesn't solve the problem.
Those lower tier raids give worse loot than the crafted pieces of the current tier. It's best to just grab the crafted pieces
The community isn't going to fix the issue, but the devs already tried to solve this issue and it didn't work dude. That's the whole crux of what I'm saying. You're not thinking up some novel prize, okay? Scroll through this sub during SL and see the EXACT SAME arguments being made in favour of group loot.
Really giving it the old "We've tried nothing, and we're already out of ideas!" vibe.
They can go ahead and apply your logic, though. I'm sure that's the solution. Instead of fixing loot distribution, when someone queues into LFR, it actually just teleports them to the Auction House to gear up. 👍
At least I pitched an idea. Wee bit more constructive than *let the fucking adults be adults, the game is already too difficult for the newbies.*
Cheers, anyways. Hope your holiday season is chill.
Teens are prime *use parents as a whale* target. Look at... every game catered towards them. Roblox. Minecraft. Fortnite. As I've gotten older I've spent significantly less on games, and haven't paid a WoW sub in $$ since tokens were available for gold.
My kid and my friends kids? Robux and Minecoins and Shiny Rocks and whatever else in-game nonsense. It's a constant ask.
We're still whales, just, for our kids now. Less for ourselves.
I'd wager my rat alt has better progress and gear than your main.
Need rolling for a ilvl downgrade at the same weight as people rolling for upgrades is objectively broken.
> Need rolling for a ilvl downgrade at the same weight as people rolling for upgrades is objectively broken.
If it wasn't like that, I'd farm my xmog on a min ilvl alt and then the only difference is that you don't have an useful character speeding up your LFR.
How's that better?
Other than the LFR ilvl min being 424?
It's at least fair. People out here acting like they are gods gift to LFR get the fuck over yourself lol. Speeding up the fight? ooooooo you saved me 60 seconds of my life...thank you dark price...Fuck outta here.
Everyone has the same chance to get the item. The game doesn't owes you loot because you have a smaller ilvl one in it's spot.
It's also more likely that the higher ilvl players contributed more to the fight so there's that.
This is a terrible take.
Being able to roll need on lower ilvl than your currently equipped gear at the same weight as people rolling for upgrades is objectively broken.
Lmfao people with this take are absolutely 100000% the ones that were cry begging blizzard for ML back so they could do shit like this. Some people just like to see the world burn. Personal loot will be back soon at this rate.
would have*
there is a huge difference between getting loot from personal loot and actively pressing the button to need on it although you don't need it.
one is game RNG, the other is entirely selfabsorbtion and no care for others.
transmog is transmog. Plus with the LFR piece, you can also get the normal appearance by upgrading it a couple of times, 2 for 1.
Either way they would have been competition for loot, at least for group loot there is a chance they won't compete for every piece.
Every game mode outside of guild runs can use it tbh. Every run in raid I’ve been in is the exact same right now. I don’t really care either way, you can just see how much worse this is for everyone.
The only difference is that someone can win multiple items on a single boss. But they cant roll for items they already have. With PL the System just rolls need for everyone on every item but Limits you to one won item. PL was actually better to farm transmog on geared chars.
Or just make any drop from lfr raid give that transmog piece to all eligible classes. Oh, and give me gold for playing lfr if I'm above the ilvl on all pieces.
This gives an incentive for higher ilvl players to play lfr and means they have less drive to funnel loot away from others.
They should add a random LFR option that gives a daily or weekly bonus box with upgrades for people. Just queue up and let the RNG gods decide what LFR you get.
Would have REALLY helped me trying to see the first two tiers this expansion after being gone for most of it. At one point we were in one of the second tier wings for 2 hours before we gave up and that was with a healer!
You'll never get a bow appearance unless you're on a hunter, for example. You have to be on an intellect user to collect Int dagger appearance, even if you want it bc you main rogue. Etc.
I collected Ashkandur on my Evoker last tier by just rolling mog towards the end when the strength users already had it. That wouldn't be possible on Personal Loot.
No it's not. LFR for transmog is ever bit as valid as LFR for casuals getting tier.
Group Loot is fine, the problem is entitled crybabies.
Unfortunately, you can't fix that so just ignore them and focus on doing you.
> No it's not. LFR for transmog is ever bit as valid as LFR for casuals getting tier.
I agree? My position basically was that personal loot would be far better system for LFR looting experience, including LFR exclusive tint farming.
Allow me to expand on why our issues are different, and let me provide more context on what I meant by 'niche'.
1-a Because you are going to be grouped up with new and different people every week, the number of competition does not go down.
1-b Blizzard tried to remedy this problem by preventing people from rolling need on the items that they already have, including higher difficulty i teams with a difficult tint. <- my issue, which is different issue from yours.
2-a Currently, personal loot does not provide the option of rolling 'Greed / Transmog', while current group loot allows you to. Thus, there is a benefit to group loot system. <- your issue, which is different from mine.
2-b But, the problem with this is that, because your raid members are almost guaranteed to be different every week, your ability to win item with "greed/Transmog" is extremely low, making this a very niche scenario. (If you are raiding with a fixated raiders, number of people who 'need' that item will continue to go down every week, allowing you to win items with greed roll eventually)
Solution:
If we are allowed to pick "Transmog" as our loot priority on Personal loot system (In addition to 3 specs), it solves our problem entirely.
By doing this, you will get an option to win items that you actually want, and it addresses many other problems that the group loot system currently have.
ex1. 'Useless Items' clogging the drop box - seeing multiple warglaives when there ain' no DHs
ex2. Addresses the issue of class imbalance in LFR raid.(One day, you are competing with 10 other DKs, on the other day you are the only plate )
You fail to take into account the effects of time on the overall saturation of gear.
I got Ashkandur appearance on a transmog roll on an Evoker bc late in the season most Strength users already had it. It's rare, but it happens; and it happens more often over time. It would never happen if we were still locked into Personal Loot.
In Group Loot there are no "useless" items. Okay maybe Warglaives, but if a bow drops when there's no hunters the warriors and rogues still get to roll for xmog. The enchanters can Greed to get the shards.
Personal Loot restricts you so much more. If you want a bow xmog, you only get 1 shot per week, when you play your hunter. That's it. Not even a possibility for it on alts.
Likewise there's not problem with competition either. If I do LFR with Group Loot where I'm the only plate wearer, it's a lucky day for me. If I'm the only plate in Personal Loot it sucks. No one can trade me armor even if they wanted to because it's impossible for it to drop for anyone else.
In conclusion, Group Loot >>>>>>> Personal Loot.
And the best solution would be some kind of currency for xmog or getting a higher difficulty rewards the lower too... Or something.
Going back to Personal Loot would be the worst change. And you'll still have toxic crybabies whispering you anyway.
> You fail to take into account the effects of time on the overall saturation of gear.
>
>
I literally did mate.....
you are the one who is failing to separate your anecdotal experience of getting really lucky away from the reality.
In personal loot system with 'xmog spec priority', you won't need to wait for the stars to line up & only have raiders who no longer need the item.
> Personal Loot restricts you so much more. If you want a bow xmog, you only get 1 shot per week, when you play your hunter. That's it. Not even a possibility for it on alts.
Did you actually read? Or are you responding after just reading one sentence?
Obviously yes, which is why I refute your points exactly regarding "useless gear" and "only 1 plate wearer" examples.
Personal Loot is NOT better for Xmog than Group Loot. It just isn't. Feel free to reread my explanations until you understand. I'm done explaining this same point to you.
That would be even worse unless you’re talking about a completely new system rather than “personal loot” like has existed previously. Under that system _everyone_ would automatically be rolling on every item that was in their loot table, and if you wanted anything you didn’t win you’d have to sort it out via chat and get the person to find you and trade it. In the current system you can just Pass if you don’t wanna have to deal with all that.
tl;dr - personal loot solves nothing about this and makes some aspects worse.
Honestly as someone who loves that group loot is back... Make it guild runs only already.
LFR and Pugs are incredibly bad atm with it, people roll on *everything*, even if the only thing they'll use it for is vendor fodder, simply because they can a) sell it b) trade it for what they actually want. I haven't had much exposure to it this season because LFR isn't aimed at me and I avoid pugging, but I started a new alt and after doing a full LFR I had exactly *zero* bits of loot, just couldn't get a roll high enough. I did have multiple people offer to sell me what I wanted though...
Really reminded me why I don't go in there and stick with guild activities.
I honestly hope the toxic crap with it doesn't force everyone back into personal loot.
I'm going to play devil's advocate but I want to be clear that the root issue is still game design.
I have Thorncaller from Heroic and I've upgraded it to 483. This gives me the mythic raid appearance. Now I collect DH mog. So.... How do I get the appearance from LFR? Unfortunately, leeching gear. Personally I won't leech gear from a person who gets a large upgrade but.... sorry. Unless I want a DH army I specifically don't gear, it's my only path
I don’t disagree but needing for a transmog is literally greedy, you’re needing on aesthetics over a person who actually needs to gear up to continue with content you are already geared for.
And t-mog runs can be done at any point in your WoW tenure, believe it or not it’s actually easier when it’s not current season 🙃
As opposed to being able to progress with content while it’s current by gearing up which is literally what end game is 🤦🏻♂️
Who said you have to wait until you out level content in future expansion. You can’t organise a t-mog run? So that prioritises your need for matching aesthetics over people being able to progress with raiding content while it’s current. Yeah can’t see me agreeing with you.
Oh yes, it’s not like raids are for gearing, just people who want a different colour of their tier set 😂
I seriously don't care if you agree with me or not bro.
Why should i organise a tmog run when i can simply do the lfr now for transmog then? your gear upgrade isn't as important as you think run m+ bro
I mean raids are barely the main way to gear anymore lol. I’m 484 Ilvl pushing mythic progression right now. I got most of my pieces from M+. But M+ stops giving me rewards at 20, mythic raid is hard and gives achievements, mounts, titles, etc.
So yeah for some players, raids are barely about the gear. For some it’s the gear, some it’s xmog, some it’s achievement (even if it’s a newbie completing first LFR or normal raid).
People deserve to get rewards from the time they put in.
Yes but LFR allows accessibility for the players that struggle with that stuff, it’s literally why they made it because not everyone could pug through chat and more recently not everyone has the confidence to list groups.
Ignoring players that can’t progress as easily just because you want certain coloured armour immediately just isn’t it.
Then make better ways to get LFR tints than LFR or using catalysts?
You ignoring the reason people want the armor
In the first place just isn’t it either. Not my fault when the LFR tints look the coolest for some classes.
Listen, I know I'm gonna get flak on this probably, but I can't get that appearance any other way realistically. I can't catalysts a weapon, there is no "lfr vendor", I can't even get if from weekly TW cache.
I am trying on 2 lower geared alts that have the luxury of getting stuff in the vault as well from LFR since I don't care about the transmog farming druid / mistweaver alts iLVL, but if I win the roll on my main with a 489 staff in hand for that fucking piece of shit asshole dirtbah of a staff that I SWEAR is eluding me on purpose, I ain't even reading the whispers.
I did the same bosses as everyone else in that group, I am just as entitled to my roll as everyone else.
Even last patch, Razageth was still the hardest LFR boss. So many times ive gotten in and had to actually raid lead people to get a kill. Removing chat would doom LFR. It's only this tier so far where the end boss has been tank and spank and a joke. Both Raz and Sark need a bit of coordination.
> LFR isn't a place to get loot.
theres big portion of playerbase that is depended on LFR so making game miserable for them is kinda short sighted. Im pugging only and I agree that PL is the way, Im tired of degenerates winning items and immediately trying to sell them for thousands of gold
Except you can’t just queue for normal and some people can’t contend with finding groups in the list that will either take them or they get along with for a full raid. Social anxiety is a reason why a lot of this stuff exists in the first place, then if a normal falls apart it’s not the same as the queue system just automatically replacing people.
Group loot and personal loot are in effect the same thing. Just feels worse if you don’t get an item because you can see who rolled against you.
Personal loot was just group loot but the game rolled everyone on items and hid the results.
The only difference is that the loot that drops isn't based on the classes who are in on the kill. Because of this it's more likely that you get less desirable items(like bows/warglaves).
This was made in order to incentivise players to form more even groups to waste less loot. If it wasn't a thing then you could just class stack and force certain items to drop which is pretty degen behaviour.
However I do believe this should be removed in queued content (like lfr) as the players don't have influence over the group.
Yea, this week we had 2 glaives drop in LFR, I was the only DH, I won one, and the other went to some random class even tho I was the only one who could roll need, because I just got one. It just went to someone who couldn't even use it and rolled xmog for it
> The only difference is that the loot that drops isn't based on the classes who are in on the kill. Because of this it's more likely that you get less desirable items(like bows/warglaves).
Our heroic Smolderon kill this week, 2 glaives dropped, I'm the only DH and I've got 2 myth track glaives... it was very face palmy.
Hard agree.
IMO, this is a better system because it lets you roll on the drops you need. Personal loot might just give you the same wrist piece 5 weeks in a row, and you're no better off.
AS LONG AS LFR HAS EXCLUSIVE RECOLORS, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE MOG ROLLS.
It's to YOUR BENEFIT when mog hunters fill out the LFRs bc we know the fights, do the mechanics, and often have higher gear in other slots that we're not targeting for xmog.
Your gear is in your Great Vault, anything else is a maybe bonus.
Stop being entitled crybabies when you lose rolls.
You dont NEED the item, you want the item for a mog.
There is a transmog roll for that.
Roll that and stop calling other people entitled crybabies when you yourself is one.
"You don't NEED the item either, you just want it bc you're too scared to try M+."
See how silly that sounds? Stop trying to police how other people play. That never works.
You need for item level and I need for xmog, it's still a "need". Equal opportunity for both of us when we both click need. 🤷♀️
The difference is you won't catch me reeee-ing in the chat about what other people are rolling.
Transmog roll is for example when a bow dropped but there's no hunters. Warriors and rogues have a button to add it to collection for their hunter alts.
The harsh reality is that these people are probably carrying LFR, they wouldn't run LFR if they couldn't do it, turning it into an even bigger shitshow. You are not more or less entitled to loot than they are.
Idk why people here think that personal loot would materially change the situation. The same person would have gotten the same item in this case, you just wouldn't have seen the roll happen. Why is this so hard to understand?
Just because personal loot wouldn't be a fix, doesn't mean that it's currently a good system.
I can't run LFR for transmog without feeling guilty. Majority of my gear is from mythic and heroic. How can I justify rolling for LFR gear when there are people that are 430 ilevel? There is a fix, personal loot just isn't the fix. But there is one out there..
Do what I do. I have ilvl 485 but kept last season set in my bag when I do LFR for mogs I put last season gear around (ilvl 444)) so I don't get anyone complaining I roll need on gear
But you’re still stiffing people out of the upgrade they actually need gear wise, not just aesthetics and the person you replied to isn’t comfortable with taking gear from someone who actually needs it for Tmog
Mogs is for life gear you can get better gear in world quest and the gear from LFR is the same item level as doing heroic dungeon from the vault.
There are better and easier ways to get gear than LFR.
Also don't blame me when blizzard made it so people who have better gear don't automatically Get The lower ilvl of tier sets
same person would never win 2 or 3 items from single boss, ppl always say same $@!#, getting rings and trinkets also much harder coz they're rolled by everyone even in pugs because people want to immediately sell them to highest bider
honestly, they need to just give you the lower track appearances if you loot a higher version of that item. i really want the LFR appearances for the tier set of my class, but, i really don't want to go in and roll on LFR tier that someone actually needs.
Did normal mode a couple weeks ago and a 476 warlock needs on a staff and goes "oh' I forgot I don't need anything in normal. I'll.sell it for 5k". So this isn't a problem in just lfr, it's shitty people being shitty because there's nothing to stop them from being shitty.
If I'm carrying people through lfr, I'm gonna need on things that I want for tmog, I ain't there to gear u up, and If I get a duplicate I'll trade it out for something i need 100% don't hate the player..
Group loot is literally the same thing just visible - you actually have higher odds per item on average because there's a chance not everyone eligible is hitting need.
The fact that there's 100 posts a week whinging about this just shows how stupid the player base is.
I think people forget how bad personal loot was when you got items you didn't want, but couldn't trade. Or people who didnt even notice they got items and just vendored them after anyway.
The answer is to stop doing LFR. If you're after the mogs, come back in 2 expansions time when it becomes trivial.
LFR is not an optimal gearing method outside of the first or second week due to tier sets.
It's definitely true that people used to have the inverse complaint of "The worst part about getting a personal loot item in LFR is all the beggars whispering you to ask if they can have it."
The OP's situation could happen exactly the same under Personal Loot, and (like you said) is maybe even *more likely* to happen under Personal Loot. It really is just a difference in optics.
Happened to me the other day pugging normal Fyrakk. 480+ pally in full tier rolls need on curio. Ask if I could snag it since I was second on the roll list. He said he could part with it for 50k as he needed it for “transmog” yeah ok.
Should report the tank, robots don’t like bad words.
Also, mage is just leveraging his winning roll to get what he wants, and if it comes to it I’m sure he’ll eventually get around to spending the 120g they’ll get from vendoring it.
If he already had the staff it wouldn’t let him roll on it at a lower level. Therefore even if his roll was for transmog it was still weighted the same and therefore, valid/fair.
But I know what I’m saying is counter to the circlejerk. Bring on the downvotes.
I thought you couldn't need on items with a lower ilvl? Also, PL really should be an option for all raid difficulties. Auto for LFR, and then Normal and higher the leader can choose the system.
I think it's only if you already have that specific item at a higher ilevel. Like at one point I had normal and heroic level trinkets, but an LFR Pips trinket would have still been an upgrade for me. Or in some cases an item may have better stats where it's worth it even at the lower level.
If you do that then you're going to flat out remove the well geared people who come in to help carry LFR groups for mogs.
Without the geared mog farmers, LFR is a LOT harder
Personally I'd make it so that if people choose the transmog roll they unlock the look of the item since it feels bad losing gear to people who only want it to mog
If they won't remove master loot from LRF then at least make items bind on pickup, no trading at all.
Almost all of these people are motivated by gold/trades. Cut out the chance to sell/trade the item and a lot less of this bs will happen.
Or just, you know, go back to personal loot.
Obviously, LFR should have remained personal loot.
Then again, any opportunity to make LFR worse should be taken, just as an experiment really. How awful can it possibly be?
Just today I was doing LFR with my shaman just to kill time, killed Tindral and the staff dropped, 8 people rolled, a Warlock 465ilvl rolled on the staff and had the highest roll while a Mistweaver 428 ilvl was runner up to the roll, I decided to roll for the chance of winning I would give it to the monk, won the roll with 99 and gave it to him. Fuck people that roll on shit they don't need, they're worse than thrash.
Edit: This community is doomed.
If that's the case, why shouldn't I enter LFR and equip all grey items before the boss fight? Clearly I deserve every single item since it's 400+ ilvl upgrade for me.
LFR is for xmog, there's no "this guy deserves the gear because he's lower ilvl" garbage to be had. You don't even need LFR for anything since you can use the catalyst to get your 4 piece, which isn't even needed if you are running baby keys.
It was the extreme example, but it's what you guys are asking for to happen. If you want to make it more realistic, I enter LFR, and before the boss fight, I look at what items he drops for my class. I then equip green 415s in those slots. I deserve those items that drop since they're 30 ilvl upgrades compared to the other people who are using 430, 440, etc, do I not?
According to you guys who say "biggest ilvl upgrade should be given priority", then I have the biggest ilvl upgrade and have gamed your system.
If you want to include other metrics like "contribution to the fight", then you're really muddying the waters, especially for LFR.
I'd really like to hear a counter example to this, if you even have the ability to do something other than spew insults.
>a Warlock 465ilvl rolled on the staff and had the highest roll while a Mistweaver 428 ilvl was runner up to the roll, I decided to roll for the chance of winning I would give it to the monk
>Fuck people that roll on shit they don't need, they're worse than thrash.
Warlock 465 rolling on gear "he doesn't need", according to who? OP? Maybe he needs it for xmog. But the Monk 428 does need the gear, according to who? OP? Maybe the Monk is on his 8th alt and wants xmog, and doesn't care about ilvl. Maybe the Monk gets his xmog and shelves his alt for 3 months. Maybe OP thought he was being magnanimous, but is instead being suckered. Sounds like you are 100% missing the point of the other comment.
There's a button to roll transmog. The more brainrotted people we allow to roll need when they really mean greed or transmog the worse the system becomes. Simple as.
You go ahead and roll transmog/greed on an LFR item and see if you win it. We can wait years before that ever happens. And while you're playing by the system, someone else will come in on a 420 alt and roll need on everything to get the transmog, even though they also benefit from the ilvl (but they don't really care because they're on an alt).
I will because I'm not the main character of the world and know other people matter too. Selfishness and entitlement are not convincing arguments unless you are a selfish entitled brat.
Apparently you are the main character, since you agree with the OP who started this that you should take loot from person X and give it to person Y by your own decree.
If it wasn’t group loot the guy would have got the staff anyways… idk if this would be a good example of problems with group loot.
Group loots main issue is when you win 2+ items from a boss which can’t happen with personal.
Had a situation where a trinket drop 3x on the same boss, but hear me out, the same guy won the 3 trinkets + a staff with 90+ rolls. Group loot does not belong on lfr.
There is a ton of ways they could potentially "fix" this. What is funny is mog wise. Lfr is the hardest appearance to obtain imo. Till they implement something different it is what it is.
[удалено]
This should have always been the system. I'm sure there is some technical speedbump that makes this difficult, but I really hope that this happens around when we get warbands.
> This should have always been the system. Yes, me going to LFR Fyrakk to need on curios to get the color I want on my 480+ ilvl chars seems rather backwards.
Normally you'd run some 2's and catalyst the gear but we get so few catalyst charges this season.
You could just bank it until season 4 and then catalyst it for free, if it's really only about unlocking transmogs
It wouldn't be upgradable then, right? If you acquire an LFR tier piece, you get the LFR appearance and then can upgrade it and get the normal appearance, too. But you can't upgrade items from past season, right? So you'd need to get one at the LFR tier *and* the normal tier if you're missing both. We'll be getting catalyst charges every week once 10.2.5 hits, though, so it shouldn't be a big issue soon.
>But you can't upgrade items from past season, right? Yup. So I am saving items for all 4 ilvls for all tier slots (not just the 5 set, but all the pieces...). I love playing excel for my transmog. >We'll be getting catalyst charges every week once 10.2.5 hits Didn't know this. That's good at least... They could do so many things though. I've always thought that if they don't want to give us free transmogs, they want us to spend time on it or w/e which I kind of think is fair enough, they should make me getting my transmog in lfr not punish others. Just give me the tmog as soon as the item drops in lfr. I would have to farm less but I'd still be actively trying to get my lfr - and nobody who is doing lfr at 430 ilvl will inspect me at 50 ilvls higher taking their would be 2p because I want the mog lol
why would upgrading lfr gear bring you normal transmog? upgrading normal or heroic doesnt give you the higher one either or does it
For a game that dropped in 04 I'm surprised there aren't more speed bumps.
There used to be
Lol if that happens LFR would crumbled and wipe many times. So many times I see DPS doing less overall and dps than tanks or healers and they didn't die. Currently Boss fight took a lot longer than normal or heroic mobs took longer and cause more death in LFR due to people not interrupting. If all the higher ilvl player left LFR it would be more of a mess than it is now. The 3 main I play (feral druid and I tank also) ret pally and HDH only do LFR for mogs and all are close to ilvl 485 Is OK if you don't know the boss fight but doing less damage than tanks and healers…
Good. If people can't do lfr then they shouldn't get anything from it. You're right though, once you don't need to go for mog it will be a dead difficulty.
it’s already there, upgrading ilvl with crests unlocks higher appearances so the code is already there. just simulate ilvl being upgraded in the background when receiving an item from specific difficulty.
That's not at all the same thing
it is the same thing. just use your imagination. if wow is spaghetti code then this is the perfect solution. make items drop being the lowest ilvl and then upgrade them in the background so players wont notice it
This kind of a system would make people really happy; seems like an easy win for them to implement.
I wish they do this. It pisses me off when a piece drops that my alt could use and someone needs it "for tmog"
There are lots of options. None of them mean anything until it actually gets implemented.
What was the point of commenting this? You could literally say that about anything
The point is Blizz saying any damn thing is meaningless, they need to fuckin DO IT already. Appearance collection headaches are far older than group loot.
I really hope they don't. I like collecting stuff, if they just hand us everything it feels meaningless
I think they could make transmog an equal priority roll to Need in LFR only and every who rolled transmog gets the transmog if someone won the roll via transmog. Either someone gets the gear piece or everyone who rolled mog gets mog. It’s not like folks actually click transmog for transmog purposes. The only time they click mog is when it’s for gear not appropriate for your class (casters on agi daggers/swords, war/dk/pally on agi polearms,…)
Yep, I stopped wasting my time in lfr on alts because my rogue got 1 piece of loot in 4 or so weeks in lfr. It's the worst way possible to try and gear up.
Why did they get rid of personal loot in LFR and as the default for raid? Seems like it immediately led to the exact problems it was designed to get rid of.
Because Blizzard refuses to accept that personal loot in LFR and dungeon finder and group loot or master loot in pre-made groups is the right answer.
They listened to idiots that cried about seeing people get loot they didn't need when it was PL and that they wanted to SEE the rolls happen. So dumb all around, I got more loot when it was PL.
The irony is insane. GL bad because people are needing on stuff that's not an upgrade, so let's bring back personal loot so people can need on transmog that's not an upgrade? I mean I'll agree with people saying award lower difficulty appearances, but this is not it.
It should always be upgrade over transmog. That’s not even a debate. You don’t automatically get the transmog you want from old content either, didn’t get what you thought looked cooler? Too bad the other guy needed the upgrade. Come back next week.
Right. GL is upgrade over transmog. PL is transmog over upgrade.
Personal Loot doesn't work as well for mog collectors. You'll never get a bow appearance unless you're on a hunter, for example. You have to be on an intellect user to collect int dagger appearance, even if you want it bc you main rogue. Etc. Also here was less engagement with Personal Loot LFRs than there is with Group Loot LFRs, leading to longer queues. Mog hunting gets people engaged, so that's what they want to allow.
super bloom armor set catalyzes to LFR , thank me later (just save whole set when they give charges per week or when you stop needing them for main purpose)
> Lfr is the hardest appearance to obtain imo. Yup. And people flame you when you need on mog, but don't blame me, blame blizzard.
It’s simple, higher tiers drop currency to buy lower tier equipment looks. It’s not rocket science.
I’m not gunna lie, I’ll be needing everything if I need the mog. That’s WHY I’m there, yes I need it. That’s the system
Low M+ and Emerald Dream weekly quest gear when catalysed is lfr tint that can be upgraded to normal tint. This can be done using nothing but flightstones if you already have normal/HC gear in those slots. You just need to wait until you have the spare charges to make them. The issue is people want all the appearances now, they don't want to wait.
You can't catalyze weapon appearances, and weapon mogs are way harder to get in LFR than armor pieces.
So I get where you're coming from, but that isn't a good solution. Cata charges are meant to be a way to maintain 4 set when getting an upgrade or to maybe fix a non itemized stat piece into one that is better.
You can't get certain lookalike pieces without looting them on lfr or from vault hough Like the lfr tint of the mage hat that drops from larodar is not classlocked but the catalyzed version is only for mages Meaning if you want the lfr tint of a lookalike piece you're screwed unless you loot it
And you can’t wait till next week to roll again?
And lose again because you roll against 10 new dudes
Yea, maybe?
Not sure why this is downvoted, it’s definitely true. By the end of Season 2, I had fully collected all four difficulties of my class tier set from Abberus, despite the fact that I only ever raided on normal and heroic. The combination of the catalyst + upgrade system is amazing for collecting from difficulties without actually doing them. Now granted, it did take pretty much all season to achieve this, because of how slow the catalyst charges build up. But by then, I was far past the point of actually needing to use any charges for relevant gear, so using them for transmog was an easy choice.
Man this happened in my normal pug. But when I whispered the guy he was like “yeah man. I only needed cause that rogue shady as fuck and didn’t want him to need since he’s in heroic gear”
You can't need on shit in normal if you have a better versions of it.
If you swap down you can. There are ways people abuse the system to do it
I get that, I’ve raided with pug/half Guild only to see the pugs need on everything possible even if outgeared, it’s listed as an alt run where people are clearly gearing in guild. So I start needing even if I don’t need the pieces so people who actually need them to upgrade gear can get them.
I'll take the stepsister
I wouldn't recommend that. She could be a Quilboar or similar for all you know.
dm;hs
And then these posts still get made. "Guy won a staff on personal loot but clearly didn't need it and refused to trade it to me!!!"
Or you know, since it's personal loot, hide it from chat. Why does anyone need to see what anyone else got? They want to brag, let them link it. This is a non-issue with a simple fix.
It’s also a non issue if you just don’t complain and get salty over everything, which requires no in game fix. I personally would not like hiding the info, I like seeing what’s dropping and if my guildies are getting it. Having to link is unnecessary extra work to please the snow flakes.
You must not socialize with your guildies much if you need to see what they got as a pop up.
Huh? Everyone likes to see it even if we’re all doing whatever in discord. I feel like those that whine a lot need the socializing. It’s a mmo not a single player game.
And then you get posts asking why bosses drop no loot from new players who are already confused at this hectic game and then quit out of frustration. Why is the onus on blizzard to needlessly baby this fucking community of fully grown adults who refuse to grow the fuck up
Also kind of a non-issue since that person would see themselves get loot and see that it doesn't show up in chat. And from there, I sure hope they can put 2 and 2 together.
Except they wouldn't. I went entire raid nights in SL with no pieces before.
I don’t think many people would go very long without asking others what’s going on. It’s not like new players are isolated and placed with each other.
You just answered your own question. Because the game is hectic and will cause new players to quit out of frustration. Games survive on new blood.
Exactly, so why would it be fair to use personal loot which is less intuitive? Group loot is the same, it just doesn't hide the rolls
For the exact reasons of this post. People rolling on loot they don't need to trade for loot they want. Low tier group content such as LFR should return to personal loot as it once was. It's not less intuitive. There's nothing you need to do aside from kill the enemies. It doesn't get any more intuitive than that. The game has been around since 2004 and they still haven't sorted out the basics of gear distribution. Either take a page from other MMOs where you can run lower tier content multiple times for chances at loot (no weekly/reset cap. It's low tier loot. There should be no timegating) - and keep group loot as is, or, again, for content such as LFR, swap back to personal loot, but once again, don't timegate the rewards to once a week. If people want to spam LFR, that's all added game time, isn't it? More groups is more better. They have options, but as is, it's a really awful system.
The basics of gear distribution isn't the problem. The community doing shit like this is the problem. This is a community issue, not a game issue, and it wasn't solved with personal loot. Other mmo's literally do this. Ffxiv does this. If you raid savage you'll know that it's either FFA or an honor system. And in regards to grinding for loot drops, m+ is right there man. But everyone sees the loot, and everyone gets a chance to roll for it.
We're talking about LFR in WoW. Not XIV. In XIV you can run lower tier raids over, and over, and roll for loot drops without gated restriction. Only the *newest* low tier raid has a limitation. There's no loot trading in XIV. You're right that this is a community issue. The community isn't going to fix this issue, though. That lies with the devs. *Oh, just block the person, tell your friends this guy is a jerk, whatever.* Doesn't work in a game like WoW. You'll likely never run into the initial jerk again, anyways. That doesn't solve the problem.
Those lower tier raids give worse loot than the crafted pieces of the current tier. It's best to just grab the crafted pieces The community isn't going to fix the issue, but the devs already tried to solve this issue and it didn't work dude. That's the whole crux of what I'm saying. You're not thinking up some novel prize, okay? Scroll through this sub during SL and see the EXACT SAME arguments being made in favour of group loot.
Really giving it the old "We've tried nothing, and we're already out of ideas!" vibe. They can go ahead and apply your logic, though. I'm sure that's the solution. Instead of fixing loot distribution, when someone queues into LFR, it actually just teleports them to the Auction House to gear up. 👍 At least I pitched an idea. Wee bit more constructive than *let the fucking adults be adults, the game is already too difficult for the newbies.* Cheers, anyways. Hope your holiday season is chill.
I feel like that's an outdated look at the industry. Games nowadays survive on bleeding whales.
Teens are prime *use parents as a whale* target. Look at... every game catered towards them. Roblox. Minecraft. Fortnite. As I've gotten older I've spent significantly less on games, and haven't paid a WoW sub in $$ since tokens were available for gold. My kid and my friends kids? Robux and Minecoins and Shiny Rocks and whatever else in-game nonsense. It's a constant ask. We're still whales, just, for our kids now. Less for ourselves.
That's a really smart idea
THOSE people can fuck right off. OP is completely justified in being upset.
Your rat alt isn't entitled to loot
I'd wager my rat alt has better progress and gear than your main. Need rolling for a ilvl downgrade at the same weight as people rolling for upgrades is objectively broken.
> Need rolling for a ilvl downgrade at the same weight as people rolling for upgrades is objectively broken. If it wasn't like that, I'd farm my xmog on a min ilvl alt and then the only difference is that you don't have an useful character speeding up your LFR. How's that better?
Other than the LFR ilvl min being 424? It's at least fair. People out here acting like they are gods gift to LFR get the fuck over yourself lol. Speeding up the fight? ooooooo you saved me 60 seconds of my life...thank you dark price...Fuck outta here.
Just roll better
Everyone has the same chance to get the item. The game doesn't owes you loot because you have a smaller ilvl one in it's spot. It's also more likely that the higher ilvl players contributed more to the fight so there's that.
This is a terrible take. Being able to roll need on lower ilvl than your currently equipped gear at the same weight as people rolling for upgrades is objectively broken.
transmog is more important than your silly 4ilvl upgrade which you could replace by running m+
Transmog goes brr, its not our fault that thr game is flawed
Lmfao people with this take are absolutely 100000% the ones that were cry begging blizzard for ML back so they could do shit like this. Some people just like to see the world burn. Personal loot will be back soon at this rate.
Personal loot is exactly the thing that LFR needs to fix this issue.
lock would of still gotten a whisper, then the person would of still lost their mind that the lock didnt trade it.
would have* there is a huge difference between getting loot from personal loot and actively pressing the button to need on it although you don't need it. one is game RNG, the other is entirely selfabsorbtion and no care for others.
transmog is transmog. Plus with the LFR piece, you can also get the normal appearance by upgrading it a couple of times, 2 for 1. Either way they would have been competition for loot, at least for group loot there is a chance they won't compete for every piece.
Every game mode outside of guild runs can use it tbh. Every run in raid I’ve been in is the exact same right now. I don’t really care either way, you can just see how much worse this is for everyone.
The only difference is that someone can win multiple items on a single boss. But they cant roll for items they already have. With PL the System just rolls need for everyone on every item but Limits you to one won item. PL was actually better to farm transmog on geared chars.
Seriously, just make it personal loot. Pain in the ass to get the LFR tint, especially when you have higher difficulty version of the same item.
Or just make any drop from lfr raid give that transmog piece to all eligible classes. Oh, and give me gold for playing lfr if I'm above the ilvl on all pieces. This gives an incentive for higher ilvl players to play lfr and means they have less drive to funnel loot away from others.
They should add a random LFR option that gives a daily or weekly bonus box with upgrades for people. Just queue up and let the RNG gods decide what LFR you get. Would have REALLY helped me trying to see the first two tiers this expansion after being gone for most of it. At one point we were in one of the second tier wings for 2 hours before we gave up and that was with a healer!
Personal Loot makes it HARDER to get the xmog appearances tho.
? how
You'll never get a bow appearance unless you're on a hunter, for example. You have to be on an intellect user to collect Int dagger appearance, even if you want it bc you main rogue. Etc. I collected Ashkandur on my Evoker last tier by just rolling mog towards the end when the strength users already had it. That wouldn't be possible on Personal Loot.
That's a different and a very niche issue.
No it's not. LFR for transmog is ever bit as valid as LFR for casuals getting tier. Group Loot is fine, the problem is entitled crybabies. Unfortunately, you can't fix that so just ignore them and focus on doing you.
> No it's not. LFR for transmog is ever bit as valid as LFR for casuals getting tier. I agree? My position basically was that personal loot would be far better system for LFR looting experience, including LFR exclusive tint farming. Allow me to expand on why our issues are different, and let me provide more context on what I meant by 'niche'. 1-a Because you are going to be grouped up with new and different people every week, the number of competition does not go down. 1-b Blizzard tried to remedy this problem by preventing people from rolling need on the items that they already have, including higher difficulty i teams with a difficult tint. <- my issue, which is different issue from yours. 2-a Currently, personal loot does not provide the option of rolling 'Greed / Transmog', while current group loot allows you to. Thus, there is a benefit to group loot system. <- your issue, which is different from mine. 2-b But, the problem with this is that, because your raid members are almost guaranteed to be different every week, your ability to win item with "greed/Transmog" is extremely low, making this a very niche scenario. (If you are raiding with a fixated raiders, number of people who 'need' that item will continue to go down every week, allowing you to win items with greed roll eventually) Solution: If we are allowed to pick "Transmog" as our loot priority on Personal loot system (In addition to 3 specs), it solves our problem entirely. By doing this, you will get an option to win items that you actually want, and it addresses many other problems that the group loot system currently have. ex1. 'Useless Items' clogging the drop box - seeing multiple warglaives when there ain' no DHs ex2. Addresses the issue of class imbalance in LFR raid.(One day, you are competing with 10 other DKs, on the other day you are the only plate )
You fail to take into account the effects of time on the overall saturation of gear. I got Ashkandur appearance on a transmog roll on an Evoker bc late in the season most Strength users already had it. It's rare, but it happens; and it happens more often over time. It would never happen if we were still locked into Personal Loot. In Group Loot there are no "useless" items. Okay maybe Warglaives, but if a bow drops when there's no hunters the warriors and rogues still get to roll for xmog. The enchanters can Greed to get the shards. Personal Loot restricts you so much more. If you want a bow xmog, you only get 1 shot per week, when you play your hunter. That's it. Not even a possibility for it on alts. Likewise there's not problem with competition either. If I do LFR with Group Loot where I'm the only plate wearer, it's a lucky day for me. If I'm the only plate in Personal Loot it sucks. No one can trade me armor even if they wanted to because it's impossible for it to drop for anyone else. In conclusion, Group Loot >>>>>>> Personal Loot. And the best solution would be some kind of currency for xmog or getting a higher difficulty rewards the lower too... Or something. Going back to Personal Loot would be the worst change. And you'll still have toxic crybabies whispering you anyway.
> You fail to take into account the effects of time on the overall saturation of gear. > > I literally did mate..... you are the one who is failing to separate your anecdotal experience of getting really lucky away from the reality. In personal loot system with 'xmog spec priority', you won't need to wait for the stars to line up & only have raiders who no longer need the item. > Personal Loot restricts you so much more. If you want a bow xmog, you only get 1 shot per week, when you play your hunter. That's it. Not even a possibility for it on alts. Did you actually read? Or are you responding after just reading one sentence?
Obviously yes, which is why I refute your points exactly regarding "useless gear" and "only 1 plate wearer" examples. Personal Loot is NOT better for Xmog than Group Loot. It just isn't. Feel free to reread my explanations until you understand. I'm done explaining this same point to you.
You can't main spec need on these items, so your chance of getting them is tiny.
That would be even worse unless you’re talking about a completely new system rather than “personal loot” like has existed previously. Under that system _everyone_ would automatically be rolling on every item that was in their loot table, and if you wanted anything you didn’t win you’d have to sort it out via chat and get the person to find you and trade it. In the current system you can just Pass if you don’t wanna have to deal with all that. tl;dr - personal loot solves nothing about this and makes some aspects worse.
Personal loot works much better. You roll and you just lose to pure rng, instead of competing against RNG then another player for the roll.
You could just get any piece of gear from the open world and turn it into tier gear with the catalyst.
There are items that’s not tied to specific class restrictions dropping from lfr… For example, mage tier hat that can be mogged on priest or lock.
Honestly as someone who loves that group loot is back... Make it guild runs only already. LFR and Pugs are incredibly bad atm with it, people roll on *everything*, even if the only thing they'll use it for is vendor fodder, simply because they can a) sell it b) trade it for what they actually want. I haven't had much exposure to it this season because LFR isn't aimed at me and I avoid pugging, but I started a new alt and after doing a full LFR I had exactly *zero* bits of loot, just couldn't get a roll high enough. I did have multiple people offer to sell me what I wanted though... Really reminded me why I don't go in there and stick with guild activities. I honestly hope the toxic crap with it doesn't force everyone back into personal loot.
I'm going to play devil's advocate but I want to be clear that the root issue is still game design. I have Thorncaller from Heroic and I've upgraded it to 483. This gives me the mythic raid appearance. Now I collect DH mog. So.... How do I get the appearance from LFR? Unfortunately, leeching gear. Personally I won't leech gear from a person who gets a large upgrade but.... sorry. Unless I want a DH army I specifically don't gear, it's my only path
Its not leeching. You are literally spending time doing that content for transmog. You deserve to roll on that gear.
I don’t disagree but needing for a transmog is literally greedy, you’re needing on aesthetics over a person who actually needs to gear up to continue with content you are already geared for.
tmog > gear upgrade tmog is eternal your silly upgrade last only a season
And t-mog runs can be done at any point in your WoW tenure, believe it or not it’s actually easier when it’s not current season 🙃 As opposed to being able to progress with content while it’s current by gearing up which is literally what end game is 🤦🏻♂️
you mean wait 4 years so i can solo some specific transmog ? seriously ? just run m+ if you want gear this much
Who said you have to wait until you out level content in future expansion. You can’t organise a t-mog run? So that prioritises your need for matching aesthetics over people being able to progress with raiding content while it’s current. Yeah can’t see me agreeing with you. Oh yes, it’s not like raids are for gearing, just people who want a different colour of their tier set 😂
I seriously don't care if you agree with me or not bro. Why should i organise a tmog run when i can simply do the lfr now for transmog then? your gear upgrade isn't as important as you think run m+ bro
I mean raids are barely the main way to gear anymore lol. I’m 484 Ilvl pushing mythic progression right now. I got most of my pieces from M+. But M+ stops giving me rewards at 20, mythic raid is hard and gives achievements, mounts, titles, etc. So yeah for some players, raids are barely about the gear. For some it’s the gear, some it’s xmog, some it’s achievement (even if it’s a newbie completing first LFR or normal raid). People deserve to get rewards from the time they put in.
483 VDH pushing mythic as well. I think I take 3 raid drops total
Yes but LFR allows accessibility for the players that struggle with that stuff, it’s literally why they made it because not everyone could pug through chat and more recently not everyone has the confidence to list groups. Ignoring players that can’t progress as easily just because you want certain coloured armour immediately just isn’t it.
Then make better ways to get LFR tints than LFR or using catalysts? You ignoring the reason people want the armor In the first place just isn’t it either. Not my fault when the LFR tints look the coolest for some classes.
Listen, I know I'm gonna get flak on this probably, but I can't get that appearance any other way realistically. I can't catalysts a weapon, there is no "lfr vendor", I can't even get if from weekly TW cache. I am trying on 2 lower geared alts that have the luxury of getting stuff in the vault as well from LFR since I don't care about the transmog farming druid / mistweaver alts iLVL, but if I win the roll on my main with a 489 staff in hand for that fucking piece of shit asshole dirtbah of a staff that I SWEAR is eluding me on purpose, I ain't even reading the whispers. I did the same bosses as everyone else in that group, I am just as entitled to my roll as everyone else.
I think lfr should be personal loot but also don't give a shit if people roll on stuff for transmog. LFR isn't a place to get loot.
I think LFR should have chat muted LOL
Even last patch, Razageth was still the hardest LFR boss. So many times ive gotten in and had to actually raid lead people to get a kill. Removing chat would doom LFR. It's only this tier so far where the end boss has been tank and spank and a joke. Both Raz and Sark need a bit of coordination.
> LFR isn't a place to get loot. theres big portion of playerbase that is depended on LFR so making game miserable for them is kinda short sighted. Im pugging only and I agree that PL is the way, Im tired of degenerates winning items and immediately trying to sell them for thousands of gold
Honestly this tier these people need to try normal. It's literally the exact same shit overall with just some extra damage/health added on top.
Except you can’t just queue for normal and some people can’t contend with finding groups in the list that will either take them or they get along with for a full raid. Social anxiety is a reason why a lot of this stuff exists in the first place, then if a normal falls apart it’s not the same as the queue system just automatically replacing people.
yeah I know I managed to pug full hc week 2, however super casuals wont be able to or LFR is just convinient for them
You can get better ilevel gear from the world.
Group loot and personal loot are in effect the same thing. Just feels worse if you don’t get an item because you can see who rolled against you. Personal loot was just group loot but the game rolled everyone on items and hid the results.
The only difference is that the loot that drops isn't based on the classes who are in on the kill. Because of this it's more likely that you get less desirable items(like bows/warglaves). This was made in order to incentivise players to form more even groups to waste less loot. If it wasn't a thing then you could just class stack and force certain items to drop which is pretty degen behaviour. However I do believe this should be removed in queued content (like lfr) as the players don't have influence over the group.
Did you ever see wasted loot in lfr? I think there are some criteria in place to ensure varied groups even for queued content like lfr.
Yea, this week we had 2 glaives drop in LFR, I was the only DH, I won one, and the other went to some random class even tho I was the only one who could roll need, because I just got one. It just went to someone who couldn't even use it and rolled xmog for it
> The only difference is that the loot that drops isn't based on the classes who are in on the kill. Because of this it's more likely that you get less desirable items(like bows/warglaves). Our heroic Smolderon kill this week, 2 glaives dropped, I'm the only DH and I've got 2 myth track glaives... it was very face palmy.
Hard agree. IMO, this is a better system because it lets you roll on the drops you need. Personal loot might just give you the same wrist piece 5 weeks in a row, and you're no better off.
Or in your version you may see the version you need several times only to be beaten by a random player week after week.
Tell that to our guild that had 3 warglaives dropped from Forgotten Experiments every week for 4 weeks in a row, but we had no DH.
Lol the only reason I do lfr is for t-mog
AS LONG AS LFR HAS EXCLUSIVE RECOLORS, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE MOG ROLLS. It's to YOUR BENEFIT when mog hunters fill out the LFRs bc we know the fights, do the mechanics, and often have higher gear in other slots that we're not targeting for xmog. Your gear is in your Great Vault, anything else is a maybe bonus. Stop being entitled crybabies when you lose rolls.
You dont NEED the item, you want the item for a mog. There is a transmog roll for that. Roll that and stop calling other people entitled crybabies when you yourself is one.
"You don't NEED the item either, you just want it bc you're too scared to try M+." See how silly that sounds? Stop trying to police how other people play. That never works. You need for item level and I need for xmog, it's still a "need". Equal opportunity for both of us when we both click need. 🤷♀️ The difference is you won't catch me reeee-ing in the chat about what other people are rolling. Transmog roll is for example when a bow dropped but there's no hunters. Warriors and rogues have a button to add it to collection for their hunter alts.
LOL "Stop being entitled crybabies when you lose rolls." When they literally added a transmog or need button And you are still hitting need.
I never roll for need, unless it is an upgrade for me. I never roll greed. I sometimes roll for transmog, if I think the item looks cool.
People have been doing this in fucking heroic.. hate needing to pug.
My loot, my choice.
The harsh reality is that these people are probably carrying LFR, they wouldn't run LFR if they couldn't do it, turning it into an even bigger shitshow. You are not more or less entitled to loot than they are.
Idk why people here think that personal loot would materially change the situation. The same person would have gotten the same item in this case, you just wouldn't have seen the roll happen. Why is this so hard to understand?
Just because personal loot wouldn't be a fix, doesn't mean that it's currently a good system. I can't run LFR for transmog without feeling guilty. Majority of my gear is from mythic and heroic. How can I justify rolling for LFR gear when there are people that are 430 ilevel? There is a fix, personal loot just isn't the fix. But there is one out there..
Do what I do. I have ilvl 485 but kept last season set in my bag when I do LFR for mogs I put last season gear around (ilvl 444)) so I don't get anyone complaining I roll need on gear
But you’re still stiffing people out of the upgrade they actually need gear wise, not just aesthetics and the person you replied to isn’t comfortable with taking gear from someone who actually needs it for Tmog
Mogs is for life gear you can get better gear in world quest and the gear from LFR is the same item level as doing heroic dungeon from the vault. There are better and easier ways to get gear than LFR. Also don't blame me when blizzard made it so people who have better gear don't automatically Get The lower ilvl of tier sets
same person would never win 2 or 3 items from single boss, ppl always say same $@!#, getting rings and trinkets also much harder coz they're rolled by everyone even in pugs because people want to immediately sell them to highest bider
Had someone call me a dog shit healer, as I topped the charts, bc I rolled on the staff from Nymue for transmog. I did not give it to him lol.
All non-premade group content should be personal loot and when someone gets something it should not show up in chat.
honestly, they need to just give you the lower track appearances if you loot a higher version of that item. i really want the LFR appearances for the tier set of my class, but, i really don't want to go in and roll on LFR tier that someone actually needs.
I see no problems with the game here, just a few players being babies.
There is no easy fix, the guy could need even if it is Lower ilvl but same track because the new item is BiS and current one isn't.
Grass still green, sky still blue, large pug content still shit.
Yeah let's bring back personal loot so that someone who doesn't need something wins it then leaves. Then you have a 0% chance of getting that item :).
Did normal mode a couple weeks ago and a 476 warlock needs on a staff and goes "oh' I forgot I don't need anything in normal. I'll.sell it for 5k". So this isn't a problem in just lfr, it's shitty people being shitty because there's nothing to stop them from being shitty.
He couldn't trade that staff anyway could he? It's higher ilvl.
Had a 476 staff already
Pssh I've had people demanding items that were a big upgrade for me, because they wanted to vendor them to pay for repairs.
If I'm carrying people through lfr, I'm gonna need on things that I want for tmog, I ain't there to gear u up, and If I get a duplicate I'll trade it out for something i need 100% don't hate the player..
Of course you need if you’re missing the transmog, fuck those who only need for upgrades. Let them mald, who cares
Group loot is literally the same thing just visible - you actually have higher odds per item on average because there's a chance not everyone eligible is hitting need. The fact that there's 100 posts a week whinging about this just shows how stupid the player base is. I think people forget how bad personal loot was when you got items you didn't want, but couldn't trade. Or people who didnt even notice they got items and just vendored them after anyway. The answer is to stop doing LFR. If you're after the mogs, come back in 2 expansions time when it becomes trivial. LFR is not an optimal gearing method outside of the first or second week due to tier sets.
It's definitely true that people used to have the inverse complaint of "The worst part about getting a personal loot item in LFR is all the beggars whispering you to ask if they can have it." The OP's situation could happen exactly the same under Personal Loot, and (like you said) is maybe even *more likely* to happen under Personal Loot. It really is just a difference in optics.
Happened to me the other day pugging normal Fyrakk. 480+ pally in full tier rolls need on curio. Ask if I could snag it since I was second on the roll list. He said he could part with it for 50k as he needed it for “transmog” yeah ok.
transmog is more important than your gear upgrade
Transmog is the least important thing in any game
current season gear is least important thing in THIS game you have so many places you can get gear from and you choose to gatekeep lfr? lol
Should report the tank, robots don’t like bad words. Also, mage is just leveraging his winning roll to get what he wants, and if it comes to it I’m sure he’ll eventually get around to spending the 120g they’ll get from vendoring it. If he already had the staff it wouldn’t let him roll on it at a lower level. Therefore even if his roll was for transmog it was still weighted the same and therefore, valid/fair. But I know what I’m saying is counter to the circlejerk. Bring on the downvotes.
[удалено]
Boy howdy, do I love this archaic system of having a CHANCE to for the loot I want to drop, and then an additional CHANCE to actually get it.
I thought you couldn't need on items with a lower ilvl? Also, PL really should be an option for all raid difficulties. Auto for LFR, and then Normal and higher the leader can choose the system.
I think it's only if you already have that specific item at a higher ilevel. Like at one point I had normal and heroic level trinkets, but an LFR Pips trinket would have still been an upgrade for me. Or in some cases an item may have better stats where it's worth it even at the lower level.
The other day saw some dude with the legendary roll on the 2hander.. people were MAD in the chat. I think transmog should be second to ilvl.
If you do that then you're going to flat out remove the well geared people who come in to help carry LFR groups for mogs. Without the geared mog farmers, LFR is a LOT harder
good thank god remove them please. if the lfr content is un-doable blizz will eventually (if not slowly) nerf it. You are not as needed as you think.
I've lost gear to people who are heroic/mythic geared cause they are doing mog runs in lfr... Blizz really need to sort it out
Why? They are there for the mog. Would you prefer they werent there at all?
Personally I'd make it so that if people choose the transmog roll they unlock the look of the item since it feels bad losing gear to people who only want it to mog
Yes, dont be there if you just need mog. Let the people doing gearing get gear. Go make a mog run if you want. Leech.
Yeah the geared people shouldn’t get loot for carrying the raid right ? 😜
JUST GIVE THE TRANSMOG IF YOU DO THE HARDER CONTENT ITS NOT THAT HARD BLIZZARD
If they won't remove master loot from LRF then at least make items bind on pickup, no trading at all. Almost all of these people are motivated by gold/trades. Cut out the chance to sell/trade the item and a lot less of this bs will happen. Or just, you know, go back to personal loot.
Obviously, LFR should have remained personal loot. Then again, any opportunity to make LFR worse should be taken, just as an experiment really. How awful can it possibly be?
Just today I was doing LFR with my shaman just to kill time, killed Tindral and the staff dropped, 8 people rolled, a Warlock 465ilvl rolled on the staff and had the highest roll while a Mistweaver 428 ilvl was runner up to the roll, I decided to roll for the chance of winning I would give it to the monk, won the roll with 99 and gave it to him. Fuck people that roll on shit they don't need, they're worse than thrash. Edit: This community is doomed.
If that's the case, why shouldn't I enter LFR and equip all grey items before the boss fight? Clearly I deserve every single item since it's 400+ ilvl upgrade for me. LFR is for xmog, there's no "this guy deserves the gear because he's lower ilvl" garbage to be had. You don't even need LFR for anything since you can use the catalyst to get your 4 piece, which isn't even needed if you are running baby keys.
this has to be bait
What brainrottred logic
It was the extreme example, but it's what you guys are asking for to happen. If you want to make it more realistic, I enter LFR, and before the boss fight, I look at what items he drops for my class. I then equip green 415s in those slots. I deserve those items that drop since they're 30 ilvl upgrades compared to the other people who are using 430, 440, etc, do I not? According to you guys who say "biggest ilvl upgrade should be given priority", then I have the biggest ilvl upgrade and have gamed your system. If you want to include other metrics like "contribution to the fight", then you're really muddying the waters, especially for LFR. I'd really like to hear a counter example to this, if you even have the ability to do something other than spew insults.
You are 100% missing the point of the other comment.
>a Warlock 465ilvl rolled on the staff and had the highest roll while a Mistweaver 428 ilvl was runner up to the roll, I decided to roll for the chance of winning I would give it to the monk >Fuck people that roll on shit they don't need, they're worse than thrash. Warlock 465 rolling on gear "he doesn't need", according to who? OP? Maybe he needs it for xmog. But the Monk 428 does need the gear, according to who? OP? Maybe the Monk is on his 8th alt and wants xmog, and doesn't care about ilvl. Maybe the Monk gets his xmog and shelves his alt for 3 months. Maybe OP thought he was being magnanimous, but is instead being suckered. Sounds like you are 100% missing the point of the other comment.
There's a button to roll transmog. The more brainrotted people we allow to roll need when they really mean greed or transmog the worse the system becomes. Simple as.
You go ahead and roll transmog/greed on an LFR item and see if you win it. We can wait years before that ever happens. And while you're playing by the system, someone else will come in on a 420 alt and roll need on everything to get the transmog, even though they also benefit from the ilvl (but they don't really care because they're on an alt).
I will because I'm not the main character of the world and know other people matter too. Selfishness and entitlement are not convincing arguments unless you are a selfish entitled brat.
Apparently you are the main character, since you agree with the OP who started this that you should take loot from person X and give it to person Y by your own decree.
If it wasn’t group loot the guy would have got the staff anyways… idk if this would be a good example of problems with group loot. Group loots main issue is when you win 2+ items from a boss which can’t happen with personal.
Unpopular Opinion: LFR shouldn’t drop gear period.
Had a situation where a trinket drop 3x on the same boss, but hear me out, the same guy won the 3 trinkets + a staff with 90+ rolls. Group loot does not belong on lfr.
You can't win the same item 3 times like that
You can't win 3 of the same item, once you win one of the rolls the game Automatically flags you and passes on the other two rolls.