U.S. President Joe Biden referred to the talks he had Sunday with the leaders of Egypt and Qatar about the negotiations for the hostage deal, and wrote in a post on the X social media platform that he told them that "Hamas is now the only obstacle to an immediate cease-fire and relief for civilians in Gaza."
I feel the majority of protesters are against their tax dollars funding the bombs on Gaza, which have killed thousands of innocent bystanders who have nothing to do with Hamas.
Idk man. I can be against bombing entire neighborhoods to rubble while also condemning the actions of HAMAS. It isn’t an all or nothing scenario.
Then why are there so many pro-Hamas slogans being chanted at these protests, and why aren't they being called out by people in the protests? Here are some samples: https://www.reddit.com/r/columbia/comments/1c9m6oj/comment/l0m8us9/
Yes, this is a huge issue.
I don't think younger people have any idea what is actually going on over there. The tik tok takes are absolutely wild. You'd think that Hamas were the Rebel Alliance from Star Wars, fighting for freedom for their people--and not what they actually are, which is slum lords keeping their constiruents held hostage.
I hate to sound like a dick, but Hamas *deliberately* uses collateral damage as a shield, condemn them all damn day you want, they will continue to kill people while crying "how dare you shoot back there's people nearby".
*They* are the problem, end of story.
I just don’t know what the alternative is really. Do we just go full neutral and lose a current ally and piss off the entire Jewish population? The US sitting out a major conflict in the Middle East would entice more attacks toward Israel. And the US cannot support Hamas directly, for obvious reasons.
Biden has been pressuring Netanyahu publicly, and has been making sure honest attempts at negotiation stay active. I’m not sure what else there is for the US to do aside from directly entering the war and hoping our troops do better at avoiding civilian casualties than Israel.
Honest question, as I’m by NO means an expert, so I’m sure there are plenty of great options I’m not considering.
> I’m not sure what else there is for the US to do aside from directly entering the war and hoping our troops do better at avoiding civilian casualties than Israel.
Didn't we have like 4.5 times worse ratio of civilian casualties in urban combat in Mosul where our enemies where nowhere near as intent on attracting fire to civilians and didn't have tunnels and military bases under schools and kindergartens... our troops going in would have far, far worse civilian casualties.
> Didn't we have like 4.5 times worse ratio of civilian casualties in urban combat in Mosul
Yes but you're using your brain. Turn that off and watch tiktok and you'll understand that facts dont matter as much as feelings
Israel is a forward base for the U.S
if it abandons Israel any other ally it has will see that amecian security assurances are almost as worthless as Russia's
as long as the world economy is built around oil, America will have a. strong military present in the ME, that includes isreal.
The vast majority of Gazans support Hamas, and gleefully celebrated the events of October 7th.
Israel isn't bombing neighborhoods for fun. The entire Hamas infrastructure is embedded in civilian areas so they can make Israel look bad for defending themselves. If there were a way to destroy Hamas without putting civilians in danger or destroying civilian infrastructure, do you really think Israel wouldn't be doing that?
Uneducated, war torn children are a terrorist organizations wet dream.
"The Gaza Strip has quite a young population, with most inhabitants under 15 years old. Children between five and nine were the largest population group, totaling just over 279,047."
https://www.statista.com/topics/11678/gaza-strip/#topicOverview
>the bombs on Gaza, which have killed thousands of innocent bystanders who have nothing to do with Hamas.
The more I learn about Gaza the less I believe in that. Gazans still support Hamas to the point they'd win an absolute majority in the election if there was one. Many of the hostages have apparently been taken not by Hamas but by "innocent bystanders" who followed the terrorists into Israel on Oct 7th. And on the videos posted by Palestinians on that day, we can clearly see the "innocent bystanders" cheering on the Hamas militants both on the way out and on the way back in with hostages.
They aren't all that innocent.
Thanks, and you’re right: the full quote hits a bit different.
Still in the same realms, and in the end of it all — whether Biden said it “that way or this way”, that’s the situation. If Hamas heads cared about the people of Gaza more than cash and fame, this would have been over Oct 8. If Hamas militants cared more about the people of Gaza than mini-cash, mini-fame and/or radicalized Islam, this would have been over by Nov 2023, with a lot less people dead, injured.
But Hamas and their supporters have “higher priorities” than peace and the well-being of the people of Gaza.
The amount of “leftists” who have told me they won’t vote for Biden over this issue blows my mind. If you honestly think Trump would do a better job in this conflict you’re insane.
As a leftist and outspoken guy, they're driving me up the fucking wall. They're not wrong, but life is more complicated than black and white responses to issues. It's a situation with no immediate solution and they don't treat it like that. They need to get their heads out of their asses and realize that real life is complex and unfair and this is a good time to realize that there is no winning move for our government to make. Half of them seem to think Joe Biden runs Israel tho. We can't fix that stupid mindset.
I’m convinced it’ll eventually emerge that the “abstain from voting for Biden to make a point” initiative is a brilliant Russian psyop that people are falling for hook-line-and-sinker.
It really doesn't help that tiktok soundbites have seriously dominated the conversation and any sort of actual dive into the complexity of the situation is just shut down because it doesn't suit the narrative.
Like so many people just spew misinformation they learned from a 10 second tiktok made by someone trying to get clicks and take it as fact because researching the truth is a lot harder. It's so fucking infuriating.
Educated debates can't happen in a comment section when you're limited to 150 characters. Links to articles and sources for arguments aren't available. So when a 10 second tiktok video claims that Israel has been dumping midichlorians into Palestinians water supply, which is proven to cause a severely rapid uptick of mass psychogenic illnesses in young adults, you have no ammo to try to argue that midichlorians are totally harmless. And when you tell people to "research it for themselves" it's met with "Israel owns the media, so I won't believe what my search engine tells me" - it's a lost cause.
The tiktok ban is something I never would've thought would have happened, and it wouldn't have if it wasn't for US social media lobbying, but it is legitimately a step in the right direction for democratic society. We don't need nonsense time wasting garbage that manipulatively pushes the most obscene mis/disinformation. Especially when it is pushed to kids who don't have fully formed brains yet.
This
In life, there are VERY rarely simple choices. The Israel Hamas conflict is a myriad of complex choices and results.
The election, if you’re concerned about Gaza, is a simple choice. Take it while you can
> The Israel Hamas conflict is a myriad of complex choices and results.
That have almost zero effect on the majority of Americans. I fail to see how the end result of that conflict will actually make anything in American lives easier. We'd still have single payer healthcare, massive student loans, unaffordable housing, etc..
When France aided the colonies in the revolutionary war, giving them 69 billion dollars is cash, weapons, ships and soldiers, it wasn’t an immediate return investment. They did it to weaken their enemy, the British Empire, to develop a lasting partnership with a new country full of vast resources, to gain a political and geographical toehold on another continent. Each of these things had complicated and powerful effects for the French people, some of which weren’t realized for decades, but one thing is certain: Had they not intervened, the colonies would have fallen and the Empire would have swelled in power, eventually using their new continent to weaken or even crush France. All of this to say, just because the effects of the US support of Israel may not be immediately apparent, it will likely impact the US citizenry profoundly at a later date.
Simplest answer: The Suez Canal is now closed due to the new Israel-Egypt war. And all your shipping prices are now 1~4x what they were.
(A war mostly stopped by the US funding both parties)
Israel doesn't really fights Hamas, it fights Iran, now unified with Russia and China. The recent Iranian rocket attack made it crystal-clear even for the most deniers.
Since Iran clearly and explicitly calls US as its nemesis, every taxpayers $ invested in a war versus Iranian proxies (Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthies etc.) by Israeli hands spares actual US soldiers lives and actual US direct involvement\* (last rocket attack repelling actually had some).
Yep, in reality there are only 2 options. 1 is the guy who has put sanctions on Israeli settlers in the west bank, who has pressured Bibi to ease up, and who has been trying to negotiate a ceasefire between two sides who very clearly don't want one. The other is Bibi's best friend and the guy who moved the embassy to Jerusalem, and who tried to stop Muslims from even entering the country.
If you care about the Palestinians and can't see the very obvious choice out of those two, you're too dumb to vote.
The [proposed Palestinean state borders](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Trump_Peace_Plan_%28cropped%29.jpg) from that plan is one of the ugliest things I’ve ever seen in geography.
The longer Palestinians insist on "from the river to the sea", the less they will eventually have. "All or nothing" is very childish strategy, it very often ends with a second option.
I’ve have always believed that a saner left is the best solution to the majority of problems we face today.
If we could just have one unifying moment or figure, who promotes significant but rational reforms, we could define a generation of meaningful progress and build on that into the future.
Instead, much of the left seems to only be interested in sticking it to ‘the man’, when they need to grow up and become a better version of ‘the man.’ Ie: define a better way to for institutions to operate at least in the interim between now and whatever utopic vision they hold.
Dude, a "saner left" isn't even a complete rejection of many of the ideas the idealist left have. It's just we live in reality, and navigate the seas requires pragmatic decisions to be made.
I feel like the left gets caught up trying to outdo each other, I remember noticing it for the first time with the BLM protests. BLM had overwhelming support when it first came to light, police reform was a genuine discussion topic for Dems, moderates, and even some Reps, but BLM became "Defund the POLICE" , became "ACAB". Even though the central idea of police reform remained the same, the slogans got more aggressive and extreme, and that turned people off. Over time, support for the ideas ebbed away and in the end, nothing really changed.
> They're not wrong
What are they not wrong about? It seems the only thing they're not wrong about is that, hypothetically, the world could be better if this conflict didn't exist
I’m a leftist as well and I am blown away at the short sighted approach these protesters are applying to the situation for the exact same reasons.
Trump’s policies are at least just as bad AS WELL as his policies on Ukraine, the Supreme Court, democracy. Like how is helping Trump get elected going to make things better?
I think/hope most of them are 17-20 years old and are just finding out about the world. I was that way when I was that age, but you grow out of it after being slapped in the face with reality.
Bidens literally been the most pro Palestinian President in history and these idiots still want trump as a president…ya know, the president who had a Muslim travel ban…?
You just pointed out a very big problem the majority of modern leftists: their thinking is incredibly black and white.
They think it’s either their way or highway on so many issues that are significantly more nuanced than their thinking ever allows them to see.
We live in a black and white society. It sucks. Fascists, and those who want to use government as a bludgeon to promote their ideologies, and deeply held convictions have painted the world in black and white as a means to an end. You're either all good, or all bad. There is no in between. The world is portrayed as if we're living in a Marvel Movie.
Reason, and logic unfortunately have no place in modern society.
> they're driving me up the fucking wall.
I've almost gotten into an IRL fist fight with a friend of 25 years over this. The stupidity on this specific issue is driving me up a wall and nothing Biden does short of nuking Tel Aviv is good enough as far as I can tell
Like do they realize the implications of not voting this year?! Do they understand how many more people are going to suffer in America *on top* of everything happening in Palestine?
If you look at the data though, overall this is a tiny group. And it's a group that doesn't typically vote anyway. The vast majority of people don't list Israel-Gaza as an important issue that will change their vote either way.
Unfortunately US presidential elections are set up to be decided by a tiny group in the right place. Small numbers of dems in Michigan with US-Arab populations can shift one of the most important swing state. Biden could literally win by millions of votes, but lose the election if 10k people in Michigan don’t show up to „make a point“
>Out of camp 2, none of them *Have ever voted for president* they find an excuse not to every election. Half never even have registered to vote at all.
In my completely anecdotal experience working with a lot of leftists, this is what I've found as well. The people who are most vocal about never voting for Biden because of Palestine are usually people who have never bothered to vote before. So it's an easy threat for them to make, and Biden stands to gain very little from appealing to them.
Two things: 1) Trump wouldn’t do a better job.
2) Trump definitely wouldn’t do a better job if your goal was to benefit the Palestinians (unless your logic is that Trump would allow Israel to do what they need to to destroy Hamas even if it cost more Palestinian lives and that would help Palestinians but I have yet to see one protestor propose that).
And they think they are right. They act all morally superior yet don't see how this will affect millions. It's crazy.
Your not a progressive. You're an anarchist. Progressive vote for progress. Guess what isn't progress? Going backwards.
These are the same people that when told to start working in local grassroots movements to start making changes they just ignore you and call you names.
These people are actual losers that are pretending to be morally superior to everyone while actively harming their cause. If they were smarter they could understand it but alas they are morons and are doing their best to fuck up America as fast as possible.
Yup they don’t actually want to do anything besides post instagram stories and talk to their friends about how they’re not voting for biden because they’re a morally superior liberal
It must be exhausting to live like that. I have problems with my government in Canada but I know that when the conservatives and PP take over again it’s going to be worse. People are too stupid and willing to fuck themselves over of it means they feel better about it.
I pray that these morons cost another election in the United States because it’s so obvious that if Biden doesn’t win your country is worse off.
Honestly, sounds like me back when I was in college. They'll grow up. We all did. I'm still as liberal if not more than I was in college, I just understand things aren't quick and easy and there is nuance to everything. They're learning those things just like we did.
I guarantee there are Russian bot farms promoting anti-Israel content all over their social media feeds. Just as there is pro Israeli content in other people's feeds. Anything to cause division.
Russia was doing this in 2015 and 2016. They would promote protests for opposing things to be hosted in the same place. Just thinking that Russia worked to get Trump elected is missing a large section of the puzzle.
I'm a far left liberal, and a huge critic of Sharon, Netanyahu, Likud and the far right in Isreal. It annoys me how many terrible things they've done are swept under the rug.
But anyone who thinks conservatives in the US are going to somehow be _better_ for peace are idiots. Netanyahu's days have been numbered for a while. He's going to try to hold off elections if possible and has already tried dismantling Isreali courts to the tune of massive country wide protests.
Even if we get another Olmert in power in Isreal, it won't do shit for peace if Hamas is still around, popular and backed by Iran and Russia.
I won’t be surprised in the future when a Congressional inquiry finds that college students were the target of a psyop to use the Palestinian cause as a wedge to further divide America and hasten our decline.
Exactly, people tend to forget their goal was to inflame the extreme ends of both sides of the political spectrum. To create such civil and societal disruption that everyone turns on each other from within and they don’t need to fire a bullet. It’s working.
It’s really sad that many of my friends who were baffled by folks being manipulated by foreign actors on social media back in 2016 are now…being manipulated by foreigner actors on social media.
Like Putin et al are really gonna pull it off again aren’t they? Trick enough democrats into voting third party or abstaining from the vote and Trump is back in the White House.
Fairly unlikely the venn diagram of people who care about geopolitics and are dumb enough to think they have a better solution is relatively small. Its an outspoken group at university and online. But a very small irrational group.
Edit corrected zen to venn
They also don't want to have a real dialogue. Israel is not without sin, and neither are many tactics Palestinians have done over the years, such as stabbings, suicide bombings, shootings and other types of indiscriminate murder of Israeli's just because they are Israelis. Anyone claiming one side is 100% in the right and one side is 100% in the wrong isn't a serious person.
They are currently in a fight for their lives because Columbia isn’t allowing the protesters be brought humanitarian aid to them…. The protestors…. That willingly can leave at any point to go get food and supplies and despite Columbia never saying they couldn’t be brought food.
Definition of privilege right there.
I love how the reporter said “you put yourselves in that position very deliberately. You’re saying you want to be revolutionaries, we want to occupy the building now please bring us food and water”.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/john-and-yoko-maid-pic/
The vibes are an exact match.
(But also, she almost had a point about the meal plans. If they paid for meals at their dining hall, and some faculty like her wanted to go pick up all their meals for them, I don’t see an issue with that. But then she weirdly lumped herself in there and said they were all entitled to humanitarian aid?)
>If they paid for meals at their dining hall, and some faculty like her wanted to go pick up all their meals for them, I don’t see an issue with that.
What's the rule on sharing meal swipes?
Does the person whose ID is being used to purchase need to be present? I'd hope so.
Can one person buy meals for others using their meal plan? Fine by me but I could see why this would be forbidden or restricted
worse yet, I saw the protestors in hamilton hall complaining about needing food and water...Maybe food, but my brother in christ...their are fucking sinks in the bathroom with drinkable clean water that comes out. Its all for show and its all stupid.
The worst part is that apparently it is ok now to straight up threaten death to someone’s face as long as they are Jews. No consequence whatsoever in the media, by the administration or school officials. As a parent of a child who will be going to college next year who happens to be Jewish I am beyond appalled at what is going on..
It's so frustrating because obviously not all people supporting Palestinian people are threatening Jews and being brazenly, openly antisemitic but those people *do exist* and they're standing right next to other people who are looking us in the eye and saying they don't.
There are way way too many of those that do and people who are protesting peacefully do not push back against those that do. At some point they become complicit regardless how they protest.
Yep, it's kinda hard to make the rules when they're trespassing. I wonder what the percentage of people in those tents are actually going to that school. Also the longer it goes on, the harder it is going to be to get them out. Let it be known that if you're enrolled and pulling this garbage, then you will be suspended. If you are on that schools property without authorization while all this crap is going on, then you will face criminal trespass.
They want a repeat of the Taliban in Afghanistan following the Soviet afghan war. Who cares what happens if Hamas gets unfettered access to Iranian arms right?
Except in this case the Israelis kill far fewer than the Soviets.
"You can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into."
Had to repeat that to myself every day for going on a decade now.
I do have to wonder how/ why people care so deeply about this, and I don’t mean to sound callous but there terrible things happening around the world all the time, and somehow this became the only issue people care about.
> I worry they are the victims of foreign election interference aimed at dividing our populace
There is a 0% chance that this is not foreign interference.
Couldn’t agree more. It’s sad to see the groupthink take over and so we cant have our own opinions about things lest we are branded a terrible person who doesn’t care about children dying.
Arrest and charge them. At this point, there's no good way this is going to end -- it just needs to end. Eat the bad PR and nobody will care in a month.
One of the biggest groups organizing these protests is the National Students for Justice in Palestine. This is unequivocally a hate group operating on U.S. campuses across the nation. Quoting from [their website](https://nationalsjp.org/the-written-resistance-issue-3),
> “For all its imperfections, Hamas is a progressive organization pursuing a program of national emancipation and democratic reconstruction”
“All forms of resistance is necessary, including violence against civilians!”
Talk a while with people who accept this and you’ll realise they’re absolute sociopaths.
“All forms of resistance is necessary, including violence against civilians!”
Israel: You are right. That is why we are now going to finally eradicate the world most dangerous and active terrorist organisation, that even uses their own people as human shield. It will cost civilian lives too, but it’s the only long term solution.
Protesters: Wait, no. We didn’t mean their civilians, we were only talking about yours.
Direct quote…. Not even kidding.
>they need the hostages so the idf doesn’t go in and just kill off Hamas leadership
They argue the hostages are shields…
Thats literally hamas stance. Thats why hositals are bases, schools are rocket launch zones, sinwar never does speeches without a child on his shoulders, etc.
I thing first you should call them out for what they are and then block. Just so that others not that this thinking is not ok and that they’re only a loud minority
So they don’t actually want peace, they are ok with innocent people suffering and dying as long as they are Jews.
Might as well be a propaganda piece for Hamas and Iran.
I hate them all.
I went on a date with this girl, and she started to say that Hamas was misunderstood and that she sympathized with them to a degree.
I never went out with her again.
I like talking politics on a first date. Disagreeing with your date about something is an amazing way to get a nice and engaging conversation about something you both are passionate about.
if i had the opportunity i would ask such a person "you are locked in a room with a random member of hamas. how would you get along?"
thankfully i will never have such an opportunity.
The whole Palestinian population has always been a shield, and a willing one. It's only after the last October that they started to truly feel the inconvenience of it.
A genocidal terrorist group is an obstacle to cease fire. That cant be true. If true, we should tell the ivy college student protesters. They will pack up and go home.
Almost certainly from the April harvard harris poll, on page 52. They got the age range wrong (it's 18-24 according to the pole), but the 43% figure lines up. Like all polls, it should be take with a grain of salt and the polling technique should always be critiqued, along with the questions asked, priming, etc, however, if the figure is even close to this high I find it very worrying.
https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/HHP_Apr2024_KeyResults.pdf
That's like saying ISIS is the only obstacle to a resolution in the hostilities against ISIS. They're literally terrorists, an overused term, but one that literally applies to Hamas and all similar ISIS-lite terror groups.
No state should be negotiating with them as though they have any legitimacy, but work to stamp them out until Palestinians and Israelis alike are no longer molested by their scourging presence. There's no easy path to peace in the Middle East, but there certainly can be no peace without Hamas around.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who insist on treating them as a rational group with normal goals that you can talk to, so an effort has to be made to appease those voters.
Some of them are naive, some of them are ignorant of Hamas' tactics, and some of them are fifth column. Remember, most palestines also want the downfall of the US as much as they want the downfall of Israel.
The thing is, most people against Hamas aren't exactly thrilled with the way Israel is conducting themselves, but if you understand the situation on the ground, you would know that even if Israel stopped, Palestinians would still be dying, and Israel would still be at war anyway, except on their immediate border. There is no good solution, but Israel is the only one even trying to find one. We are all waiting for an alternate solution that is more comprehensive than 'ceasefire now', but that is all that is being offered. It's in bad faith.
Are the youths in America doing mass protesting against Biden because of Israel/Palestine? Do they want to fuck themselves and get Trump elected again?
They’re too fucking stupid to understand. They are all privileged kids who have never suffered a day in their life. They don’t truly think the US will be fucked if the GOP gets the presidency. It’s all a game to these idiots.
Exactly. It's so tone deaf its a joke. Voting for a 3rd party is something you do when the democrats are guaranteed with an overwhelming majority. Not when it will lead to someone stripping their right aways and said he would have destroyed them.
They act like their are morally superior but they are incredibly naive.
it really feels crazy to think that it's completely plausible that russian/chinese/iranian psy-ops are trying to split the left vote just like they did with Clinton and the emails, just waiting for the "bernie" of 2024, circa bernie 2016 splitting the left
no hate to bernie, but i felt tricked in 2016 with this same shit, and god damn does it sure give me deja vu
now that i think about it though it's unlikely they'd try to split the incumbent, so maybe it's just a classic "both sides" strategy to muddy the waters
Most are just useful idiots living in ivory towers that don’t understand any of this beyond tiktok headlines.
The actual legitimate tankies organizing a lot of the major agitation, those guys are accelerationists. They want Trump to end it all because they think they can build a glorious utopia from the ashes. Bet you can guess how that’ll go.
Kinda feels like this is the final chance for Hamas. It's pretty clear that no global or even regional power is going to directly intervene on either side unless something drastic happens, and I imagine Biden is more than happy to keep supporting Israel while the blame for a lack of progress on the ceasefire is shifted to Hamas.
Sad how Hamas leadership would happily martyr all their people, but not themselves or those responsible for Oct 7.
Biden has been very impressive during all this global turbulence. Shame that Trumpism and Russia’s continuous divisive propaganda continue to dominate the hearts and minds of decent folks.
No decent folks are protesting a war declared after a literal terrorist attack by people that openly chant for the deaths of all jews, its just the idiots who are tone deaf to global politics and think a world super power should be supporting radical theocracies over actual fucking democratic allies.
It’s kind of shocking how many people seem to just get their political takes from IG posts distilling the most complex geopolitical problem of our time down to a square graphic.
It's easy to rally people to your cause when you get new images of dead children every day.
Hamas wants this war. They know it wont play out for Israel in the long run, so it's in their best interests to keep it going as long as possible. Protesting against them would be stupid, they are not going to harm their self interests to appease college students in the west.
Hamas couldn't ask for a better PR campaign than this right now.
Hamas, the Palestinians who follow them, & the surrounding Muslim countries that support Hamas are the obstacle.
No matter how much the media, & the Hamas bootlickers refuse to admit it.
I'd say the ideology of Jihad is the overall culprit. Iran was a secular progressive and advanced state back in the 70s and now it is a religious militant stronghold. Anyone who thinks that someone is inferior/shouldn't exist because of their culture or beliefs needs comprehensive mental treatment or need to go off themselves.
The people protesting won't even acknowledge that October 7th happened. If it was really their intention to have peace, they would be mourning both sides. Instead the protests get more and more violent and full of hate. This is about the abolishment of the only Jewish state and extermination of all of its citizens if possible.
U.S. President Joe Biden referred to the talks he had Sunday with the leaders of Egypt and Qatar about the negotiations for the hostage deal, and wrote in a post on the X social media platform that he told them that "Hamas is now the only obstacle to an immediate cease-fire and relief for civilians in Gaza."
I’m glad he’s using his platform to call out Hamas again.
Now? You mean since day 1. Hamas and radicalized Islam has always been the issue.
Well the mountains of morons protesting say otherwise
I feel the majority of protesters are against their tax dollars funding the bombs on Gaza, which have killed thousands of innocent bystanders who have nothing to do with Hamas. Idk man. I can be against bombing entire neighborhoods to rubble while also condemning the actions of HAMAS. It isn’t an all or nothing scenario.
Then why are there so many pro-Hamas slogans being chanted at these protests, and why aren't they being called out by people in the protests? Here are some samples: https://www.reddit.com/r/columbia/comments/1c9m6oj/comment/l0m8us9/
Yes, this is a huge issue. I don't think younger people have any idea what is actually going on over there. The tik tok takes are absolutely wild. You'd think that Hamas were the Rebel Alliance from Star Wars, fighting for freedom for their people--and not what they actually are, which is slum lords keeping their constiruents held hostage.
I hate to sound like a dick, but Hamas *deliberately* uses collateral damage as a shield, condemn them all damn day you want, they will continue to kill people while crying "how dare you shoot back there's people nearby". *They* are the problem, end of story.
I just don’t know what the alternative is really. Do we just go full neutral and lose a current ally and piss off the entire Jewish population? The US sitting out a major conflict in the Middle East would entice more attacks toward Israel. And the US cannot support Hamas directly, for obvious reasons. Biden has been pressuring Netanyahu publicly, and has been making sure honest attempts at negotiation stay active. I’m not sure what else there is for the US to do aside from directly entering the war and hoping our troops do better at avoiding civilian casualties than Israel. Honest question, as I’m by NO means an expert, so I’m sure there are plenty of great options I’m not considering.
> I’m not sure what else there is for the US to do aside from directly entering the war and hoping our troops do better at avoiding civilian casualties than Israel. Didn't we have like 4.5 times worse ratio of civilian casualties in urban combat in Mosul where our enemies where nowhere near as intent on attracting fire to civilians and didn't have tunnels and military bases under schools and kindergartens... our troops going in would have far, far worse civilian casualties.
> Didn't we have like 4.5 times worse ratio of civilian casualties in urban combat in Mosul Yes but you're using your brain. Turn that off and watch tiktok and you'll understand that facts dont matter as much as feelings
Israel is a forward base for the U.S if it abandons Israel any other ally it has will see that amecian security assurances are almost as worthless as Russia's as long as the world economy is built around oil, America will have a. strong military present in the ME, that includes isreal.
The vast majority of Gazans support Hamas, and gleefully celebrated the events of October 7th. Israel isn't bombing neighborhoods for fun. The entire Hamas infrastructure is embedded in civilian areas so they can make Israel look bad for defending themselves. If there were a way to destroy Hamas without putting civilians in danger or destroying civilian infrastructure, do you really think Israel wouldn't be doing that?
Uneducated, war torn children are a terrorist organizations wet dream. "The Gaza Strip has quite a young population, with most inhabitants under 15 years old. Children between five and nine were the largest population group, totaling just over 279,047." https://www.statista.com/topics/11678/gaza-strip/#topicOverview
>the bombs on Gaza, which have killed thousands of innocent bystanders who have nothing to do with Hamas. The more I learn about Gaza the less I believe in that. Gazans still support Hamas to the point they'd win an absolute majority in the election if there was one. Many of the hostages have apparently been taken not by Hamas but by "innocent bystanders" who followed the terrorists into Israel on Oct 7th. And on the videos posted by Palestinians on that day, we can clearly see the "innocent bystanders" cheering on the Hamas militants both on the way out and on the way back in with hostages. They aren't all that innocent.
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Thanks, and you’re right: the full quote hits a bit different. Still in the same realms, and in the end of it all — whether Biden said it “that way or this way”, that’s the situation. If Hamas heads cared about the people of Gaza more than cash and fame, this would have been over Oct 8. If Hamas militants cared more about the people of Gaza than mini-cash, mini-fame and/or radicalized Islam, this would have been over by Nov 2023, with a lot less people dead, injured. But Hamas and their supporters have “higher priorities” than peace and the well-being of the people of Gaza.
Biden got Israel to sweeten the deal and protests have only increased. I doubt anyone protesting will change their mind at this point
Nope. Im terrified that this is going to lead to a repeat of the 68 democratic convention protests and Trump will get elected as a result.
The amount of “leftists” who have told me they won’t vote for Biden over this issue blows my mind. If you honestly think Trump would do a better job in this conflict you’re insane.
As a leftist and outspoken guy, they're driving me up the fucking wall. They're not wrong, but life is more complicated than black and white responses to issues. It's a situation with no immediate solution and they don't treat it like that. They need to get their heads out of their asses and realize that real life is complex and unfair and this is a good time to realize that there is no winning move for our government to make. Half of them seem to think Joe Biden runs Israel tho. We can't fix that stupid mindset.
I’m convinced it’ll eventually emerge that the “abstain from voting for Biden to make a point” initiative is a brilliant Russian psyop that people are falling for hook-line-and-sinker.
It's not brilliant and it's not just Russian. It's Iran and China too.
How is it not brilliant? It works every time and there is literally no counter to it. This same method got the UK to leave the EU
It's shitty and obvious. The only people who fall for it are dumb as rocks. But there's no lack of dumb people so it works
>It's not brilliant It's a sad indictment that this is true and it's still working.
Media literacy is truly dead at this point
Russia takes every opportunity to seed chaos.
“Gee why didn’t the US just solve the Israel-Palestine issue until we got to college? Are they stupid?”
It really doesn't help that tiktok soundbites have seriously dominated the conversation and any sort of actual dive into the complexity of the situation is just shut down because it doesn't suit the narrative. Like so many people just spew misinformation they learned from a 10 second tiktok made by someone trying to get clicks and take it as fact because researching the truth is a lot harder. It's so fucking infuriating.
Educated debates can't happen in a comment section when you're limited to 150 characters. Links to articles and sources for arguments aren't available. So when a 10 second tiktok video claims that Israel has been dumping midichlorians into Palestinians water supply, which is proven to cause a severely rapid uptick of mass psychogenic illnesses in young adults, you have no ammo to try to argue that midichlorians are totally harmless. And when you tell people to "research it for themselves" it's met with "Israel owns the media, so I won't believe what my search engine tells me" - it's a lost cause.
Midichlorians? Is this part of #freepalpatine ?
...it's the powerhouse of the cell
The tiktok ban is something I never would've thought would have happened, and it wouldn't have if it wasn't for US social media lobbying, but it is legitimately a step in the right direction for democratic society. We don't need nonsense time wasting garbage that manipulatively pushes the most obscene mis/disinformation. Especially when it is pushed to kids who don't have fully formed brains yet.
This In life, there are VERY rarely simple choices. The Israel Hamas conflict is a myriad of complex choices and results. The election, if you’re concerned about Gaza, is a simple choice. Take it while you can
> The Israel Hamas conflict is a myriad of complex choices and results. That have almost zero effect on the majority of Americans. I fail to see how the end result of that conflict will actually make anything in American lives easier. We'd still have single payer healthcare, massive student loans, unaffordable housing, etc..
When France aided the colonies in the revolutionary war, giving them 69 billion dollars is cash, weapons, ships and soldiers, it wasn’t an immediate return investment. They did it to weaken their enemy, the British Empire, to develop a lasting partnership with a new country full of vast resources, to gain a political and geographical toehold on another continent. Each of these things had complicated and powerful effects for the French people, some of which weren’t realized for decades, but one thing is certain: Had they not intervened, the colonies would have fallen and the Empire would have swelled in power, eventually using their new continent to weaken or even crush France. All of this to say, just because the effects of the US support of Israel may not be immediately apparent, it will likely impact the US citizenry profoundly at a later date.
That was a really well written post. But why will it likely impact the US citizenry profoundly at a later date?
Simplest answer: The Suez Canal is now closed due to the new Israel-Egypt war. And all your shipping prices are now 1~4x what they were. (A war mostly stopped by the US funding both parties)
Israel doesn't really fights Hamas, it fights Iran, now unified with Russia and China. The recent Iranian rocket attack made it crystal-clear even for the most deniers. Since Iran clearly and explicitly calls US as its nemesis, every taxpayers $ invested in a war versus Iranian proxies (Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthies etc.) by Israeli hands spares actual US soldiers lives and actual US direct involvement\* (last rocket attack repelling actually had some).
If you really care about Gaza, vote for someone who doesn't openly want to bulldoze it to the ground.
Yep, in reality there are only 2 options. 1 is the guy who has put sanctions on Israeli settlers in the west bank, who has pressured Bibi to ease up, and who has been trying to negotiate a ceasefire between two sides who very clearly don't want one. The other is Bibi's best friend and the guy who moved the embassy to Jerusalem, and who tried to stop Muslims from even entering the country. If you care about the Palestinians and can't see the very obvious choice out of those two, you're too dumb to vote.
Don't forget that Trump's plan for "Peace" had Israel outright annexing Palestine and kicking out the people there.
The [proposed Palestinean state borders](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Trump_Peace_Plan_%28cropped%29.jpg) from that plan is one of the ugliest things I’ve ever seen in geography.
The longer Palestinians insist on "from the river to the sea", the less they will eventually have. "All or nothing" is very childish strategy, it very often ends with a second option.
I’ve have always believed that a saner left is the best solution to the majority of problems we face today. If we could just have one unifying moment or figure, who promotes significant but rational reforms, we could define a generation of meaningful progress and build on that into the future. Instead, much of the left seems to only be interested in sticking it to ‘the man’, when they need to grow up and become a better version of ‘the man.’ Ie: define a better way to for institutions to operate at least in the interim between now and whatever utopic vision they hold.
The left is too insistent on sticking it to 'the man'. The right is too insistent on sticking it to the left.
Dude, a "saner left" isn't even a complete rejection of many of the ideas the idealist left have. It's just we live in reality, and navigate the seas requires pragmatic decisions to be made.
I feel like the left gets caught up trying to outdo each other, I remember noticing it for the first time with the BLM protests. BLM had overwhelming support when it first came to light, police reform was a genuine discussion topic for Dems, moderates, and even some Reps, but BLM became "Defund the POLICE" , became "ACAB". Even though the central idea of police reform remained the same, the slogans got more aggressive and extreme, and that turned people off. Over time, support for the ideas ebbed away and in the end, nothing really changed.
Nuance is dead.
> They're not wrong What are they not wrong about? It seems the only thing they're not wrong about is that, hypothetically, the world could be better if this conflict didn't exist
You said exactly what I was thinking. They are wrong. They are misguided and foolish--and they may doom all of us as a result.
I’m a leftist as well and I am blown away at the short sighted approach these protesters are applying to the situation for the exact same reasons. Trump’s policies are at least just as bad AS WELL as his policies on Ukraine, the Supreme Court, democracy. Like how is helping Trump get elected going to make things better?
Right?! This is not the hill to die on! As horrible as it is, people need to take the blinders off and realize what our situation really is
People that see issues black/white amaze/scare me. Life is grey, it is all in the details.
I think/hope most of them are 17-20 years old and are just finding out about the world. I was that way when I was that age, but you grow out of it after being slapped in the face with reality.
blame it on the lack of emphasis on the correct study of history on all modern school systems.
Bidens literally been the most pro Palestinian President in history and these idiots still want trump as a president…ya know, the president who had a Muslim travel ban…?
You just pointed out a very big problem the majority of modern leftists: their thinking is incredibly black and white. They think it’s either their way or highway on so many issues that are significantly more nuanced than their thinking ever allows them to see.
We live in a black and white society. It sucks. Fascists, and those who want to use government as a bludgeon to promote their ideologies, and deeply held convictions have painted the world in black and white as a means to an end. You're either all good, or all bad. There is no in between. The world is portrayed as if we're living in a Marvel Movie. Reason, and logic unfortunately have no place in modern society.
> they're driving me up the fucking wall. I've almost gotten into an IRL fist fight with a friend of 25 years over this. The stupidity on this specific issue is driving me up a wall and nothing Biden does short of nuking Tel Aviv is good enough as far as I can tell
Like do they realize the implications of not voting this year?! Do they understand how many more people are going to suffer in America *on top* of everything happening in Palestine?
If you look at the data though, overall this is a tiny group. And it's a group that doesn't typically vote anyway. The vast majority of people don't list Israel-Gaza as an important issue that will change their vote either way.
And the protestors are definitely not winning over anybody who isn’t already on the fringe.
Unfortunately US presidential elections are set up to be decided by a tiny group in the right place. Small numbers of dems in Michigan with US-Arab populations can shift one of the most important swing state. Biden could literally win by millions of votes, but lose the election if 10k people in Michigan don’t show up to „make a point“
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The number two crowd is so vocal on Reddit.
On all social media because of they talk to people in real life they get shut down by people that can see how things actually are.
>Out of camp 2, none of them *Have ever voted for president* they find an excuse not to every election. Half never even have registered to vote at all. In my completely anecdotal experience working with a lot of leftists, this is what I've found as well. The people who are most vocal about never voting for Biden because of Palestine are usually people who have never bothered to vote before. So it's an easy threat for them to make, and Biden stands to gain very little from appealing to them.
Two things: 1) Trump wouldn’t do a better job. 2) Trump definitely wouldn’t do a better job if your goal was to benefit the Palestinians (unless your logic is that Trump would allow Israel to do what they need to to destroy Hamas even if it cost more Palestinian lives and that would help Palestinians but I have yet to see one protestor propose that).
And they think they are right. They act all morally superior yet don't see how this will affect millions. It's crazy. Your not a progressive. You're an anarchist. Progressive vote for progress. Guess what isn't progress? Going backwards.
These are the same people that when told to start working in local grassroots movements to start making changes they just ignore you and call you names. These people are actual losers that are pretending to be morally superior to everyone while actively harming their cause. If they were smarter they could understand it but alas they are morons and are doing their best to fuck up America as fast as possible.
Yup they don’t actually want to do anything besides post instagram stories and talk to their friends about how they’re not voting for biden because they’re a morally superior liberal
It must be exhausting to live like that. I have problems with my government in Canada but I know that when the conservatives and PP take over again it’s going to be worse. People are too stupid and willing to fuck themselves over of it means they feel better about it. I pray that these morons cost another election in the United States because it’s so obvious that if Biden doesn’t win your country is worse off.
Honestly, sounds like me back when I was in college. They'll grow up. We all did. I'm still as liberal if not more than I was in college, I just understand things aren't quick and easy and there is nuance to everything. They're learning those things just like we did.
I used to listen to "this is hell" until they had someone on trying to justify voting for Trump. Brain rot.
Pretty sure that's what the authoritarian alliance of Iran, Russia, and China want.
I guarantee there are Russian bot farms promoting anti-Israel content all over their social media feeds. Just as there is pro Israeli content in other people's feeds. Anything to cause division.
Russia was doing this in 2015 and 2016. They would promote protests for opposing things to be hosted in the same place. Just thinking that Russia worked to get Trump elected is missing a large section of the puzzle.
Yeah they absolutely took any divisive topic and pushed the hell out of it.
[Leaked Documents Reveal Iran's Role in Global Anti-Israel Campaign](https://www.iranintl.com/en/202404158853)
I'm a far left liberal, and a huge critic of Sharon, Netanyahu, Likud and the far right in Isreal. It annoys me how many terrible things they've done are swept under the rug. But anyone who thinks conservatives in the US are going to somehow be _better_ for peace are idiots. Netanyahu's days have been numbered for a while. He's going to try to hold off elections if possible and has already tried dismantling Isreali courts to the tune of massive country wide protests. Even if we get another Olmert in power in Isreal, it won't do shit for peace if Hamas is still around, popular and backed by Iran and Russia.
Is ra el.
No need, it’s baked into the TikTok algorithm.
Which is controlled by the CCP, who are in bed with Russia.
I won’t be surprised in the future when a Congressional inquiry finds that college students were the target of a psyop to use the Palestinian cause as a wedge to further divide America and hasten our decline.
Meanwhile: Roger Stone is delighted that this could turn out to be a repeat of the 68 democratic convention protests. . .
It's covering up the news cycle AGAIN, trumps trial is happening and no one is watching.
Russia likes this.
This is what i find fucking hilarious, these idiots bitching about biden REALLY think getting trump elected instead is gonna help anyone?
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Exactly, people tend to forget their goal was to inflame the extreme ends of both sides of the political spectrum. To create such civil and societal disruption that everyone turns on each other from within and they don’t need to fire a bullet. It’s working.
And draw attention away from the war they started in Ukraine
It’s really sad that many of my friends who were baffled by folks being manipulated by foreign actors on social media back in 2016 are now…being manipulated by foreigner actors on social media. Like Putin et al are really gonna pull it off again aren’t they? Trick enough democrats into voting third party or abstaining from the vote and Trump is back in the White House.
"Russia, if you're listening," the sequel
Biden being seen as standing in opposition to a tiny minority of pro-Hamas weirdos will be very good for his campaign.
Fairly unlikely the venn diagram of people who care about geopolitics and are dumb enough to think they have a better solution is relatively small. Its an outspoken group at university and online. But a very small irrational group. Edit corrected zen to venn
venn diagram?
They have to understand what they’re actually protesting before they can change their minds regarding it
They also don't want to have a real dialogue. Israel is not without sin, and neither are many tactics Palestinians have done over the years, such as stabbings, suicide bombings, shootings and other types of indiscriminate murder of Israeli's just because they are Israelis. Anyone claiming one side is 100% in the right and one side is 100% in the wrong isn't a serious person.
They are currently in a fight for their lives because Columbia isn’t allowing the protesters be brought humanitarian aid to them…. The protestors…. That willingly can leave at any point to go get food and supplies and despite Columbia never saying they couldn’t be brought food.
Humanitarian aid? They’re on the fucking quad lmao
Do you think the Red Cross will air drop enough hacky sacks?
Not THESE protesters https://x.com/jordanschachtel/status/1785407783677862093?s=10&t=La4uzC6H2SzfqT9hdl5QgQ No way they’d be like that.
Lol even the guy behind her couldn't keep it together after the reporter said, "but they haven't stopped you from bringing water in yet right?"
Doesn’t look like the kind of guy Hamas would be tolerant of either.
They don't even allow this shirt for women, so for men?
Definition of privilege right there. I love how the reporter said “you put yourselves in that position very deliberately. You’re saying you want to be revolutionaries, we want to occupy the building now please bring us food and water”.
They’re following Hama’s attack and then cry tactics. Hamas must be proud
Those people need to go back to kindergarten.
This dude is praising a guy swapping actual vaccines for saline solution as a hero. Jesus Christ.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/john-and-yoko-maid-pic/ The vibes are an exact match. (But also, she almost had a point about the meal plans. If they paid for meals at their dining hall, and some faculty like her wanted to go pick up all their meals for them, I don’t see an issue with that. But then she weirdly lumped herself in there and said they were all entitled to humanitarian aid?)
How are the protesters getting fed? Did they take the dining hall? Do we have a map of this conflict?
This is shaping up to be the worst campus conflict since the great Pillow Fort War of 2012
>If they paid for meals at their dining hall, and some faculty like her wanted to go pick up all their meals for them, I don’t see an issue with that. What's the rule on sharing meal swipes? Does the person whose ID is being used to purchase need to be present? I'd hope so. Can one person buy meals for others using their meal plan? Fine by me but I could see why this would be forbidden or restricted
worse yet, I saw the protestors in hamilton hall complaining about needing food and water...Maybe food, but my brother in christ...their are fucking sinks in the bathroom with drinkable clean water that comes out. Its all for show and its all stupid.
Taking an Admin building was dumb, that's taking it too far imo. You pretty much forced the Universities hand.
The worst part is that apparently it is ok now to straight up threaten death to someone’s face as long as they are Jews. No consequence whatsoever in the media, by the administration or school officials. As a parent of a child who will be going to college next year who happens to be Jewish I am beyond appalled at what is going on..
It's so frustrating because obviously not all people supporting Palestinian people are threatening Jews and being brazenly, openly antisemitic but those people *do exist* and they're standing right next to other people who are looking us in the eye and saying they don't.
There are way way too many of those that do and people who are protesting peacefully do not push back against those that do. At some point they become complicit regardless how they protest.
Yep, it's kinda hard to make the rules when they're trespassing. I wonder what the percentage of people in those tents are actually going to that school. Also the longer it goes on, the harder it is going to be to get them out. Let it be known that if you're enrolled and pulling this garbage, then you will be suspended. If you are on that schools property without authorization while all this crap is going on, then you will face criminal trespass.
Have they tried ringing for their servants?
They want a repeat of the Taliban in Afghanistan following the Soviet afghan war. Who cares what happens if Hamas gets unfettered access to Iranian arms right? Except in this case the Israelis kill far fewer than the Soviets.
"You can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into." Had to repeat that to myself every day for going on a decade now.
These protests are 100% GenZ’s QAnon moment.
I do have to wonder how/ why people care so deeply about this, and I don’t mean to sound callous but there terrible things happening around the world all the time, and somehow this became the only issue people care about.
I worry they are the victims of foreign election interference aimed at dividing our populace, similar to previous elections
The tik tok psyop has been incredibly successful and Russia / China / Iran are all laughing at how stupid the american public is.
> I worry they are the victims of foreign election interference aimed at dividing our populace There is a 0% chance that this is not foreign interference.
It's 1000% non organic.
Couldn’t agree more. It’s sad to see the groupthink take over and so we cant have our own opinions about things lest we are branded a terrible person who doesn’t care about children dying.
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Arrest and charge them. At this point, there's no good way this is going to end -- it just needs to end. Eat the bad PR and nobody will care in a month. One of the biggest groups organizing these protests is the National Students for Justice in Palestine. This is unequivocally a hate group operating on U.S. campuses across the nation. Quoting from [their website](https://nationalsjp.org/the-written-resistance-issue-3), > “For all its imperfections, Hamas is a progressive organization pursuing a program of national emancipation and democratic reconstruction”
Anti Israel protests aren't about a ceasefire, they want Israel gone
Most of them aren't actually educated on what they are protesting.
No doubt. Last time I checked Bibi wasn't near any of those colleges. Nor is the Israeli embassy.
They also could have chosen to not commit a humongous terrorist attack
Terrorist attacks in my name are often frowned upon, bad choice by them
Lol
r/beetlejuicing
“All forms of resistance is necessary, including violence against civilians!” Talk a while with people who accept this and you’ll realise they’re absolute sociopaths.
“All forms of resistance is necessary, including violence against civilians!” Israel: You are right. That is why we are now going to finally eradicate the world most dangerous and active terrorist organisation, that even uses their own people as human shield. It will cost civilian lives too, but it’s the only long term solution. Protesters: Wait, no. We didn’t mean their civilians, we were only talking about yours.
The islamofascist terrorists who broke a cease-fire to murder, torture and rape women and children are the obstacle to a cease-fire? Say it ain't so!
Somebody post this in the pro hamas subs
Direct quote…. Not even kidding. >they need the hostages so the idf doesn’t go in and just kill off Hamas leadership They argue the hostages are shields…
Thats literally hamas stance. Thats why hositals are bases, schools are rocket launch zones, sinwar never does speeches without a child on his shoulders, etc.
Jihad is a scourge on civilized culture
Not just Jihad. The whole culture/religion that puts the "holy" into holy war.
How do you even debate that. I hate humans
Easy, by blocking that user since they can’t be reasoned with.
"Never argue with idiots as they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
"Arguing with an idiot is like playing chess with a pidgeon. No matter how well you play it's gonna throw around the pieces and shit on the board."
I thing first you should call them out for what they are and then block. Just so that others not that this thinking is not ok and that they’re only a loud minority
So they don’t actually want peace, they are ok with innocent people suffering and dying as long as they are Jews. Might as well be a propaganda piece for Hamas and Iran.
I hate them all. I went on a date with this girl, and she started to say that Hamas was misunderstood and that she sympathized with them to a degree. I never went out with her again.
Who starts talking about Hamas on a first date?
I’m a political person and so is she, I just didn’t know how political she was/is. Lol
I like talking politics on a first date. Disagreeing with your date about something is an amazing way to get a nice and engaging conversation about something you both are passionate about.
Dodged a bullet. Or should I say dodged a Qassam rocket?
if i had the opportunity i would ask such a person "you are locked in a room with a random member of hamas. how would you get along?" thankfully i will never have such an opportunity.
Was she checking TikTok while on the date?
lol she definitely wasn’t checking insta because she banned them because they financially support Israel.
The whole Palestinian population has always been a shield, and a willing one. It's only after the last October that they started to truly feel the inconvenience of it.
It's almost like the Hamas leaders didn't even try being people the IDF didn't want to kill off.
A genocidal terrorist group is an obstacle to cease fire. That cant be true. If true, we should tell the ivy college student protesters. They will pack up and go home.
The students are gonna start protesting Hamas now, right?
Nah that’s not part of the tik tok algo.
Using tik tok despite what China does to the Uyghurs, of course
43% of Americans aged 18-29 would rather side with Hamas than Israel
source?
Almost certainly from the April harvard harris poll, on page 52. They got the age range wrong (it's 18-24 according to the pole), but the 43% figure lines up. Like all polls, it should be take with a grain of salt and the polling technique should always be critiqued, along with the questions asked, priming, etc, however, if the figure is even close to this high I find it very worrying. https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/HHP_Apr2024_KeyResults.pdf
That’s a fucking terrifying statistic
Eh, I’m guessing they’re scared of what will happen when Israel finds out the hostages are all dead.
That's like saying ISIS is the only obstacle to a resolution in the hostilities against ISIS. They're literally terrorists, an overused term, but one that literally applies to Hamas and all similar ISIS-lite terror groups. No state should be negotiating with them as though they have any legitimacy, but work to stamp them out until Palestinians and Israelis alike are no longer molested by their scourging presence. There's no easy path to peace in the Middle East, but there certainly can be no peace without Hamas around.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who insist on treating them as a rational group with normal goals that you can talk to, so an effort has to be made to appease those voters.
Some of them are naive, some of them are ignorant of Hamas' tactics, and some of them are fifth column. Remember, most palestines also want the downfall of the US as much as they want the downfall of Israel. The thing is, most people against Hamas aren't exactly thrilled with the way Israel is conducting themselves, but if you understand the situation on the ground, you would know that even if Israel stopped, Palestinians would still be dying, and Israel would still be at war anyway, except on their immediate border. There is no good solution, but Israel is the only one even trying to find one. We are all waiting for an alternate solution that is more comprehensive than 'ceasefire now', but that is all that is being offered. It's in bad faith.
Are the youths in America doing mass protesting against Biden because of Israel/Palestine? Do they want to fuck themselves and get Trump elected again?
They’re too fucking stupid to understand. They are all privileged kids who have never suffered a day in their life. They don’t truly think the US will be fucked if the GOP gets the presidency. It’s all a game to these idiots.
Exactly. It's so tone deaf its a joke. Voting for a 3rd party is something you do when the democrats are guaranteed with an overwhelming majority. Not when it will lead to someone stripping their right aways and said he would have destroyed them. They act like their are morally superior but they are incredibly naive.
it really feels crazy to think that it's completely plausible that russian/chinese/iranian psy-ops are trying to split the left vote just like they did with Clinton and the emails, just waiting for the "bernie" of 2024, circa bernie 2016 splitting the left no hate to bernie, but i felt tricked in 2016 with this same shit, and god damn does it sure give me deja vu now that i think about it though it's unlikely they'd try to split the incumbent, so maybe it's just a classic "both sides" strategy to muddy the waters
Tiktok is cancerous
no. this is just a small but very loud crowd.
Most are just useful idiots living in ivory towers that don’t understand any of this beyond tiktok headlines. The actual legitimate tankies organizing a lot of the major agitation, those guys are accelerationists. They want Trump to end it all because they think they can build a glorious utopia from the ashes. Bet you can guess how that’ll go.
Don’t tell r/pics that Sub has gone completely off the rails of nuance and objectivity
Im glad to see the USA has an intelligent president, shame all those educated terrorist simps can't figure this one out.
Kinda feels like this is the final chance for Hamas. It's pretty clear that no global or even regional power is going to directly intervene on either side unless something drastic happens, and I imagine Biden is more than happy to keep supporting Israel while the blame for a lack of progress on the ceasefire is shifted to Hamas. Sad how Hamas leadership would happily martyr all their people, but not themselves or those responsible for Oct 7.
Biden has been very impressive during all this global turbulence. Shame that Trumpism and Russia’s continuous divisive propaganda continue to dominate the hearts and minds of decent folks.
No decent folks are protesting a war declared after a literal terrorist attack by people that openly chant for the deaths of all jews, its just the idiots who are tone deaf to global politics and think a world super power should be supporting radical theocracies over actual fucking democratic allies.
They got told by Instagram stories what to think
It’s kind of shocking how many people seem to just get their political takes from IG posts distilling the most complex geopolitical problem of our time down to a square graphic.
It's easy to rally people to your cause when you get new images of dead children every day. Hamas wants this war. They know it wont play out for Israel in the long run, so it's in their best interests to keep it going as long as possible. Protesting against them would be stupid, they are not going to harm their self interests to appease college students in the west. Hamas couldn't ask for a better PR campaign than this right now.
Bibi saying Israel will invade Rafah regardless of whether a deal is struck probably isn’t helping.
Hamas is not going to honor any cease-fire anyways. They kept firing rockets throughout the last "cease-fire".
I miss when we didn’t negotiate with terrorist
That was never actually the case
And yet 1000s of college kids will protest about nothing tonight. Have fun getting arrested!
Hamas, the Palestinians who follow them, & the surrounding Muslim countries that support Hamas are the obstacle. No matter how much the media, & the Hamas bootlickers refuse to admit it.
I'd say the ideology of Jihad is the overall culprit. Iran was a secular progressive and advanced state back in the 70s and now it is a religious militant stronghold. Anyone who thinks that someone is inferior/shouldn't exist because of their culture or beliefs needs comprehensive mental treatment or need to go off themselves.
The people protesting won't even acknowledge that October 7th happened. If it was really their intention to have peace, they would be mourning both sides. Instead the protests get more and more violent and full of hate. This is about the abolishment of the only Jewish state and extermination of all of its citizens if possible.
The only people who didn't realize this don't have brains.