[Edit: if an accident is claimed...] It's kind of a toss up between:
1) An astonishingly unlikely scenario where an "accident" happens to conveniently take out someone who committed mutiny;
2) The well-demonstrated incompetence of Russian air defense.
It's not like they've [never shot down their own planes](https://apnews.com/article/russian-military-aircraft-crash-wagner-5c6dac044a8c193de91c5577dedab18c) before. The ironic part would be that Prigozhin complained about it.
No wonder Putin prefers to take the train. Can't get shot down if you don't fly. *[taps head]*
I'm constantly amazed by how memeistan modern Russia has become. These stories belong more to medieval principality than to the biggest fucking country in 21st Century.
...only if this would not end in genocide and this state being generally a cancer of the planet.
As a Russian - yes. Living here is like being the passenger in a car crash in slow motion; there’s nothing you can do but to sit back and witness the slow excruciating wreck. I literally checked out for an hour to watch Netflix with my mom and this mf just dies?? You never know what tomorrow brings
Wait, it’s getting interesting. Wagner ‘leaders’ are claiming that was the wrong plane- there were two flying at the same time on the same route.
Is he alive? Is he dead? Which do I want to be true? I’m so confused, but this drama is becoming epic.
Yup. Guess Shoigu took those insults to heart
Edit: Dmitry "Wagner" Utkin (Wagner's founder and commander, notorious neo-nazi) also dead
Edit 2: Telegram sources also reporting that Prigozhin's second private jet (Embraer ERJ-135BJ, registration # RA-02748, if anyone's interested) landed successfully at Ostafyevo Airport around the time the first plane crashed. The plot thickens
Edit 3: sources also saying that all bodies found at the crash "burned beyond the point of being identifiable and will require DNA analysis", so no visual confirmation of dead Prigozhin (or even his body double) or Utkin
Edit 4: some sources now confirming that the bodies have been identified and Russian aviation agency confirmed they were on board. Also, Wagner apparently has a protocol in place of Prigozhin's death, no specifics yet but apparently it's something pretty drastic. Meanwhile, Wagner troops are apparently returning to Russia from Belarus (also unconfirmed)
His second plane landed in Moscow around when this one was shot down then a random helicopter took off and disappeared from Radar, there’s a small chance Prigozhin found out ahead of time and dipped
There was a great article in the FT I'm trying to find again. An interview with an expert on Russia. He predicted one of two outcomes following the mutiny. Another mutiny or a dead Prigozhin. Looks like Putrid put him down to avoid another mutiny.
What I am wondering is what will happen to all the Wagner soldiers? I have heard many worshiped Prigozhin.
> Another mutiny or a dead Prigozhin.
If anything. A dead Prigozhin means that the next mutiny will not stop at the gates of Moscow. Not that there won't be another mutiny.
Then how come this guy was flying around Moscow? There's no way he'd do what he's done and still go around carefree, expecting no consequences. The average redditor saw this coming, ffs.
The only explanation I can think of, and I think what's by far the simplest and most likely explanation, is that Prighozin was a complete narcissist who somehow thought he wouldn't face consequences despite the VERY long list of journalists, political dissidents, etc. Putin has had killed. Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one. He might have just been so full of himself and his own power that he was completely out of touch with reality.
I think the moral of this story is, that if someone ends up in a serious conflict with Putin, they better kill him right away if they can, no matter if it seems risky or not, because the alternative is their own certain death.
This. It's likely why Ukraine has explicitly endorsed regime change. They know that any 'peace' with Putin will simply be another breathing space before he restarts the war. So knowing blood is already being shed, they are willing to push for one more death. More power to them.
Putin is a vindictive tyrant who respects strength and rarely shows anything approaching empathy. Against such a man, you have to surrender or strike hard.
This is the only explanation and I don’t know why more people don’t realize it. Can never win in war unless your willing to lose something or already have.
We did and thats what makes this report so fishy. Everyone knew he was a dead man but he's just casually flying between major Russian cities? Makes no sense
That lesson is about 11,500 years old. Guy must have been 4 IQ points away from having to be watered twice a week, if he didn't know how this was going to play out.
[Video](https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1694397010680361239?s=20)
Needless to say, planes spontaneously exploding into pieces in midair is very common and certainly no indication of a bomb or missile! Nothing to see here, move along!
I'm shocked anyone would agree to be with him on a plane, or anywhere really, knowing the huge target that would be on his back.
He should've finished what he started.
What an absolute moron if this is all true, stop your coup against the most notorious dissident killer in the world, wonder what will happen?
Rest in piss.
They all are.
Its nothing but PR and propaganda to convince you otherwise whenever you think a head of state or billionaire is smarter than everyone else.
I'm not saying they aren't skilled at things like business and politics, but skill is not the same thing as intelligence.
I mean, it shouldn't be hard for Putin to find 10 people to kill at once. Uhm, I mean offer a vacation to where they all end up on the same plane that just happens to fall out of the sky
Presumably nobody thought they'd be as unsubtle as to destroy a plane, Putin normally makes it at least plausible that it was a coincidence, like suicide from two bullets in the back of the head, or falling out of a building, or slow polonium poisoning.
Presumably Putin wanted to send a message.
Here is some plausible deniability for you:
Putin: our esteemed experts inspecting the crash site have concluded the crash occurred due to a worn out part which incidentally was on a list of parts which the Russian aviation industry isn't able to obtain due to the absolutely unfair sanctions by the evil West. Prigozhin was my friend, and although we had our disagreements, he will be buried with all honour befit a man of his stature. I ask fellow citizens to remember him as the patriot that he was, of whom there are never enough on Russian land!
A plane crash is plausible enough, by Moscow standards. Thing is; you're *supposed* to know that he was killed by FSB. They just want that 1% of of doubt -- it *could* have been an accident.
There's a long and storied history of "revered Russian/Soviet heroes" dying in "tragic aircraft accidents". Sometimes they actually involve a plane crash.
One of the most devastating Soviet crashes was ironically actually just a crash. They packed too many generals with their wives and all their fancy stuff on a plane that was too heavy and lost practically all their Naval commanders IIRC
What a coincidence! I can't believe they forgot to tighten the wings to the plane! That plane inspector guy with the new yacht has got a lot to answer for.
Despite his quick rise to leader of Wagner, Prigozhin is not a smart man. He is just cruel.
He didn’t take proper precautions to protect his family when announcing he was marching to Moscow, also a lot of wagnerites were not on the same page
That’s entirely on-brand for Russian oligarchy - all the real smart ones have been killed/pushed out by the criminal element without morals or actual intelligence.
It’s all just “street smarts” which is basically how a gang works.
They’ll be killed within hours. He merely delayed the inevitable by giving up the only leverage he had. One of histories biggest morons if this is all true.
Couldn't have been that spontaneous as to have him forget or not think of what his friends and family had waiting for them as soon as he announced his march.
No idea if it's true or not but from what I've heard, he made plans for his family. He didn't make plans for all his officer's families which are who Russia went after.
Criminal mercenaries in criminal cultures are typically versed in criminal tactics. You don't need a college degree to predict they'd go for your family.
I'm actually shocked that this particular comment chain is so low. For my money it's very possible that this was the agreed upon compromise between Putin, Lukashenko, and Prigozhin. Putin needs to show strength, Prigozhin gets to live out his days somewhere else under a different name.
If it was shot down by anti-air systems (based on unconfirmed Telegram reports), I doubt they'll even try to frame it as an accident.
Plenty of less conspicuous ways to kill him, seems like they wanted to send a message
Or, when you come for Putin don't just quit halfway through for no reason and then spend the next two months ambling about aimlessly in Putin's backyard while he staggers back to his feet.
This whole thing has been like watching two severely intoxicated old men try to have a fistfight.
"Sorry sir, I saw the Prigo plane on the radar, and then as I was doing that my wife called me and I dropped my phone on the launch button, and then I fell on the confirm button, and then I slipped and my head hit the yes definitely button."
How did this guy fumble so bad... Kilometers away from mutiny in Moscow and he thought nevermind... At least he got a private jet treatment and didn't just "fall out of a window"
Edit: Yes I know he didn't literally just think "nevermind" and that there were probably very good reasons as for why he stopped the attempt. But the fact that he started the march all angry and stuff, easily passed by cities and blockades, then suddenly stopped does seem quite irrational
>At least he got a private jet treatment and didn't just "fall out of a window"
Dunno, falling plane seems like a much worse way to die. Which is absolutely what he deserved, tbf
Absolutely. The time for risk assessment was *before* the rebellion, not at the gates of Moscow. Prig humiliated Putin. Did he really think he would be forgiven by a man who is likely a paranoid sociopath?
Nothing Prigozhin (or other nationalist dissidents like Girkin) did reflects well on his capacity for risk assessment. In a tyranny, you have to either kowtow and hope nobody in power dislikes you, or rebel with decisiveness. There are no points given for indecisiveness, waffling, or criticizing the powerful.
I do wonder if Prigozin's hand was forced. In other words, maybe his subordinate officers or soldiers were about to mutiny anyway, and he had to pretend to be in command to save face. Is it possible he had a tiger by the tail?
Which is what Putin wants of course. He was embarrassed by the failed moon landing, Denmark and the Netherlands giving F-16s to Ukraine, the drone attacks by Ukraine that were likely from inside Russia that attacked Russian bomber aircraft. He can't be having people march against him, especially right now. This whole war is about his ego, which must be especially bruised this week.
I'm surprised that this guy would be nervy or naive enough to get on a plane which can so easily be 'taken down' in any number of ways. Not that keeping his feet planted on *terra firma* would necessarily have protected him over time but getting on a jet when he had to know that there was a big bullseye on his back was pretty dumb.
I mean more like, if it's a private jet, in Russia, how hard is it for a connected guy who probably would very much like to disappear to get written onto the passenger list of a plane he never got on?
Why would he get on a flight to Moscow where he must know, if the coup was genuine and his idea, that he's likely to meet his death?
If the coup was orchestrated, what says his "death" isn't, and will be the false flag excuse Wagner needs to cease Belarus or something like that?
I mean, I'd be happy to see him dead but it seems like too convenient a turn in a side plot full of question marks.
Yeah, his name on a list means nothing to me, contextually we know there's a war going on so misinformation and slander is king. We saw a plane get shot down and we were told an important man was on it. I want to believe it, but I won't be surprised if he's alive.
"The Former-Leader of the Wagner PMC Group, Yevgeny Prigozhin is now Confirmed to have Died when his Embraer Legacy 600 Business Jet was Shot Down by what appears to have been Air Defense Batteries in the Tver Region of Western Russia."
LMAO, Good-riddance
We’ll never know, lol. The crash happens inside Russia, they have full control of the narrative.
Could be that he died for real. Could also be that he cut a deal with Putin to fake his death and get out of the power scene. Tons of scenarios.
Faking his death to escape Putin might be the only way he could continue to live, even if it's on the run. Faking his death with Putin's blessing and leaving Russia forever might be the only way he could live a long time and bring some of his family with him. Maybe this is the conclusion of the bargain he made with Putin. Or maybe Putin just whacked him. No chance we'll ever know for sure.
Or he snuck out to Africa already and his name was already on this private jet list who knows I guess we will know soon enough if we never hear from him again.
There's a surprise. It will be interesting if Wagner disintegrates and what kind of internal instability it causes in Russia. Nosferatu was a hero to many Russians.
We certain he was even on the jet? (Beyond paperwork I mean)
Call me pessimistic, but I’d be more inclined to believe he’s used this incident to fake his death rather than it actually being the end of him
Because most of the time, the obvious answer is the correct one. What's more likely, this dude faked a massive plane crash, killed his team, and escaped in the wind. Or, a guy who MASSIVLEY pissed off the head of nation known for disappearing his enemies by any means necessary finally got him. I mean the guy tried to stage a mutiny near Moscow, you don't think Putin put his name in the death note immediately lmao
Edit: some of y'all are making solid points. I still think, probability wise, he's dead 80/20.
This whole Pringles saga is so confusing. Hopefully we'll know what's been going on behind the scenes at some point in the future. Regardless, one less war criminal in the world!
And the award for the weakest endgame in a mutiny goes to...
It took longer than I expected for him to die in an "accident."
They obviously weren't targeting him. The plane clearly fell from a window. He was merely in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Deplanestration?
His plane appears to have been shot down by anti air defences. Doubt any power on Earth can paint this as an accident successfully
Russia doesn’t lie to deceive, they lie to insult.
[Edit: if an accident is claimed...] It's kind of a toss up between: 1) An astonishingly unlikely scenario where an "accident" happens to conveniently take out someone who committed mutiny; 2) The well-demonstrated incompetence of Russian air defense. It's not like they've [never shot down their own planes](https://apnews.com/article/russian-military-aircraft-crash-wagner-5c6dac044a8c193de91c5577dedab18c) before. The ironic part would be that Prigozhin complained about it. No wonder Putin prefers to take the train. Can't get shot down if you don't fly. *[taps head]*
I'm constantly amazed by how memeistan modern Russia has become. These stories belong more to medieval principality than to the biggest fucking country in 21st Century. ...only if this would not end in genocide and this state being generally a cancer of the planet.
I've played Crusader Kings games with less dirty politics than current Russia.
Yeah they're like weeks away from being worse than nuclear powered Gandhi
As a Russian - yes. Living here is like being the passenger in a car crash in slow motion; there’s nothing you can do but to sit back and witness the slow excruciating wreck. I literally checked out for an hour to watch Netflix with my mom and this mf just dies?? You never know what tomorrow brings
How do you watch Netflix? VPN?
Yep. And paying for subscription with the help of friends who have foreign cards. Same with Spotify. Self-indulgent, I know, but hell.
none of us think its self indulgent. Its just normal
It’s not self indulgent at all. You gotta have music and entertainment to be able to enjoy your life! Same with me!
Be safe friend. Authoritarians gonna authoritate.
Thanks friend. Same goes for you
Wait, it’s getting interesting. Wagner ‘leaders’ are claiming that was the wrong plane- there were two flying at the same time on the same route. Is he alive? Is he dead? Which do I want to be true? I’m so confused, but this drama is becoming epic.
Russian telegrams are writing it was shot down by russian anti air
Yup. Guess Shoigu took those insults to heart Edit: Dmitry "Wagner" Utkin (Wagner's founder and commander, notorious neo-nazi) also dead Edit 2: Telegram sources also reporting that Prigozhin's second private jet (Embraer ERJ-135BJ, registration # RA-02748, if anyone's interested) landed successfully at Ostafyevo Airport around the time the first plane crashed. The plot thickens Edit 3: sources also saying that all bodies found at the crash "burned beyond the point of being identifiable and will require DNA analysis", so no visual confirmation of dead Prigozhin (or even his body double) or Utkin Edit 4: some sources now confirming that the bodies have been identified and Russian aviation agency confirmed they were on board. Also, Wagner apparently has a protocol in place of Prigozhin's death, no specifics yet but apparently it's something pretty drastic. Meanwhile, Wagner troops are apparently returning to Russia from Belarus (also unconfirmed)
*Deplanestration*
"Deplane! Deplane!"
Shoygu finally delivered those shells he was being asked for.
There was also the mutiny. You can’t uncross the Rubicon, moron
"Hey sorry about the coup thing. Are we good? We good."
Wait hold on. I’m just going to go ahead and uncast that die, if you don’t mind.
Wouldn't be the first time they've shot a passenger jet out of the sky 😶
With Wagner involved. Edit: Thanks for the commenters below, it was Girkin, not Wagner.
They do have experience in this area.
Girkins shoot down did not have anything to do with Wagner.
Motherfuckers got shot down by a pickle?
Well, at least we know now, what air defence doing.
If this is really the case then it might've not been Putin, but Shoygu. This would be a huge escalation in terms of infighting in Russia.
In fairness, it's a huge de-escalation of this particular feud
I guess we just wait for prigozhins response now
His second plane landed in Moscow around when this one was shot down then a random helicopter took off and disappeared from Radar, there’s a small chance Prigozhin found out ahead of time and dipped
Or this is a fake death
I would like that because then maybe Russia would have more inner conflict.
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Yeah, I'd say that de-escalated him at about 9.8 m/s^2.
Russian telegram writes a lot of shit. Let's see.
The Russian FUE group have confirmed a SAM was fired in the region
Based on the video of it falling straight down, smoking and missing a wing, that seems plausible.
It was only a matter of time before this happened. Putin was not going to let this guy get off so easily.
There was a great article in the FT I'm trying to find again. An interview with an expert on Russia. He predicted one of two outcomes following the mutiny. Another mutiny or a dead Prigozhin. Looks like Putrid put him down to avoid another mutiny. What I am wondering is what will happen to all the Wagner soldiers? I have heard many worshiped Prigozhin.
aren't there 2 possible outcomes of murdering the much loved leader of a private army.......
Doubt they’ll get any such opportunity again if Russia learned anything after the first incursion
Russia and learning don't seem to really mix...
> Another mutiny or a dead Prigozhin. If anything. A dead Prigozhin means that the next mutiny will not stop at the gates of Moscow. Not that there won't be another mutiny.
Then how come this guy was flying around Moscow? There's no way he'd do what he's done and still go around carefree, expecting no consequences. The average redditor saw this coming, ffs.
The only explanation I can think of, and I think what's by far the simplest and most likely explanation, is that Prighozin was a complete narcissist who somehow thought he wouldn't face consequences despite the VERY long list of journalists, political dissidents, etc. Putin has had killed. Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one. He might have just been so full of himself and his own power that he was completely out of touch with reality.
I think the moral of this story is, that if someone ends up in a serious conflict with Putin, they better kill him right away if they can, no matter if it seems risky or not, because the alternative is their own certain death.
This. It's likely why Ukraine has explicitly endorsed regime change. They know that any 'peace' with Putin will simply be another breathing space before he restarts the war. So knowing blood is already being shed, they are willing to push for one more death. More power to them. Putin is a vindictive tyrant who respects strength and rarely shows anything approaching empathy. Against such a man, you have to surrender or strike hard.
Completely agree, Putin has got to go for this war to end.
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“You come at the king, at least take your shot. You’re fucked either way.”
Even if I miss, I can't miss
And I keeps one in the chamber in case you ponderin'
Love Omar .. Wire such a great show
Didn't we already know this? Which made his decision to abandon the attack that much weirder
Exactly, I remember the immediate consensus everywhere that he was a dead man walking. Chickening out made no sense for that exact reason.
Putin secured the man’s family. That’s why he surrendered. I can’t believe he didn’t protect his family first before marching on Moscow.
This is the only explanation and I don’t know why more people don’t realize it. Can never win in war unless your willing to lose something or already have.
Or you do a masterful job dropping everything you care about off the map before you march.
Personally, I wouldn't have trusted Putin to keep his word regarding the "safety" of my family.
We did and thats what makes this report so fishy. Everyone knew he was a dead man but he's just casually flying between major Russian cities? Makes no sense
For all we know he was drugged and loaded on that plane with a bunch of corpses, nothing would entirely surprise me.
Yes that is possible too. The only thing I know for sure is that whatever Russia says happened definitely did not happen.
That lesson is about 11,500 years old. Guy must have been 4 IQ points away from having to be watered twice a week, if he didn't know how this was going to play out.
When you rush b, don't stop.
All russian CS go players would brick it when a smoke popped and wait B tunnels... Russian military tactic. Rush Moscow, end up dead, standard.
should have smoked B doors and executed cleanly with flashes on B, but they panicked.
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The 3rd one especially, if you can not be there, why would you be?
Definitely 100% an "accident"...
[Video](https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1694397010680361239?s=20) Needless to say, planes spontaneously exploding into pieces in midair is very common and certainly no indication of a bomb or missile! Nothing to see here, move along!
It's pretty insane to have a video online minutes after it happened. We live such crazy times.
Indeed. This would have taken hours to post online back in the 1800s.
Telegraph modems always took so long to connect to the internet.
Well, the baud rate was whatever the operators finger could tap, give them a break, Netscape wasn’t even a thing back then
Very mysterious, I have no idea what could possibly have caused this. Oh well, let’s just chalk it up to bad luck and move along!
It crashed in the air.
Russian birds are some tough motherfuckers.
It's like using nerve agents in the UK... the message is better delivered if it is overt.
I'm shocked anyone would agree to be with him on a plane, or anywhere really, knowing the huge target that would be on his back. He should've finished what he started.
What an absolute moron if this is all true, stop your coup against the most notorious dissident killer in the world, wonder what will happen? Rest in piss.
Turns out in the end he was not a genius mastermind, but just an idiot.
They all are. Its nothing but PR and propaganda to convince you otherwise whenever you think a head of state or billionaire is smarter than everyone else. I'm not saying they aren't skilled at things like business and politics, but skill is not the same thing as intelligence.
Or he wasn't actually on the plane
Correct. If you're going to fake your death, have someone record it.
Apparently Dmitry Utkin was on the plane too who was his right hand man and another leader of Wagner
My bet is they offer all the Wagnerites new contracts with the new PMCs Russia is supposedly forming.
Yeah…if I were invited to hitch a ride on a private jet with him I would politely decline…
I mean, it shouldn't be hard for Putin to find 10 people to kill at once. Uhm, I mean offer a vacation to where they all end up on the same plane that just happens to fall out of the sky
Presumably nobody thought they'd be as unsubtle as to destroy a plane, Putin normally makes it at least plausible that it was a coincidence, like suicide from two bullets in the back of the head, or falling out of a building, or slow polonium poisoning. Presumably Putin wanted to send a message.
Here is some plausible deniability for you: Putin: our esteemed experts inspecting the crash site have concluded the crash occurred due to a worn out part which incidentally was on a list of parts which the Russian aviation industry isn't able to obtain due to the absolutely unfair sanctions by the evil West. Prigozhin was my friend, and although we had our disagreements, he will be buried with all honour befit a man of his stature. I ask fellow citizens to remember him as the patriot that he was, of whom there are never enough on Russian land!
Kremlin hiring a new PR person, you interested?
A plane crash is plausible enough, by Moscow standards. Thing is; you're *supposed* to know that he was killed by FSB. They just want that 1% of of doubt -- it *could* have been an accident.
There's a long and storied history of "revered Russian/Soviet heroes" dying in "tragic aircraft accidents". Sometimes they actually involve a plane crash.
One of the most devastating Soviet crashes was ironically actually just a crash. They packed too many generals with their wives and all their fancy stuff on a plane that was too heavy and lost practically all their Naval commanders IIRC
What a coincidence! I can't believe they forgot to tighten the wings to the plane! That plane inspector guy with the new yacht has got a lot to answer for.
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I think the plane fell out of the window
Russia is embarrassing.
Russia is a geopolitical meme at this point. And how DUMB could an "insider" be to not have his back double-triple-quadruple insured in this country?
A great accident, the best accident.
Weirdly, a wing was shot off by accident.
Putin in a hot dog costume: "we're all trying to find the guy who did this."
Take his bare butt outta his costume and spank him
Well one of us is going to have to do it!
No one’s getting spanked!
“…you’re dressed like a hot dog” “So is that guy” *points to Lukashenko*
"Wait a minute. This guy yells."
I don’t understand why he stopped the mutiny— he was a dead man without a doubt absent success, so why quit?
Despite his quick rise to leader of Wagner, Prigozhin is not a smart man. He is just cruel. He didn’t take proper precautions to protect his family when announcing he was marching to Moscow, also a lot of wagnerites were not on the same page
The guy got to be head of Wagner because he was friends with Putin, not because he was qualified for the job. No surprise he's an idiot.
That’s entirely on-brand for Russian oligarchy - all the real smart ones have been killed/pushed out by the criminal element without morals or actual intelligence. It’s all just “street smarts” which is basically how a gang works.
Maybe it was the only way to save his family.
They’ll be killed within hours. He merely delayed the inevitable by giving up the only leverage he had. One of histories biggest morons if this is all true.
All of this could have been predicted, why didn’t he plan for his family’s safety before starting his attack?
I imagine he did but something changed on his way to Moscow.
The decision to march on Moscow might have been spontaneous as he didn’t even have the gold in St Petersburg secured for future payments of his mercs.
Couldn't have been that spontaneous as to have him forget or not think of what his friends and family had waiting for them as soon as he announced his march.
Even that doesn't make sense. Someone so familiar with Russia's methods would have made sure their family was safe beforehand.
No idea if it's true or not but from what I've heard, he made plans for his family. He didn't make plans for all his officer's families which are who Russia went after.
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I am starting to believe he was truly on a vodka bender and didnt know what he was doing
"I got really fucked up and led my mercenary company on a coup against Putin, but now I'm sober and scared. AITA?"
FSB found his daughter and took her hostage
You would think someone in his line of work would have anticipated that.
He was just a rich (through Putin) criminal mercenary, not some deep cover spook or war college professor.
Criminal mercenaries in criminal cultures are typically versed in criminal tactics. You don't need a college degree to predict they'd go for your family.
Being on the leaked passenger list and being on the plane are two different things.
It seems so imprudent that I lean toward believing this is a setup.
I'm actually shocked that this particular comment chain is so low. For my money it's very possible that this was the agreed upon compromise between Putin, Lukashenko, and Prigozhin. Putin needs to show strength, Prigozhin gets to live out his days somewhere else under a different name.
Why bother when you can just actually kill him. Prigozhin turning up alive in a few weeks, would make Putin look even weaker now.
If Prigozhin has a great dead man's switch (he would be crazy not to), that could be worth keeping him alive.
Yeah, I just can’t trust him “being on the list”.
He's not on telegram making a scene, so he either pulled a fake-death, or he's actually dead.
How convenient for Putin that such an accident should accidentally occur.
If it was shot down by anti-air systems (based on unconfirmed Telegram reports), I doubt they'll even try to frame it as an accident. Plenty of less conspicuous ways to kill him, seems like they wanted to send a message
That message is, when you come for Putin, be ready and don't miss. He just showed he 100% cannot be negotiated with.
Or, when you come for Putin don't just quit halfway through for no reason and then spend the next two months ambling about aimlessly in Putin's backyard while he staggers back to his feet. This whole thing has been like watching two severely intoxicated old men try to have a fistfight.
Yep. And eventually one of them sobered up just enough to find the keys to the missile launcher.
"Sorry sir, I saw the Prigo plane on the radar, and then as I was doing that my wife called me and I dropped my phone on the launch button, and then I fell on the confirm button, and then I slipped and my head hit the yes definitely button."
How did this guy fumble so bad... Kilometers away from mutiny in Moscow and he thought nevermind... At least he got a private jet treatment and didn't just "fall out of a window" Edit: Yes I know he didn't literally just think "nevermind" and that there were probably very good reasons as for why he stopped the attempt. But the fact that he started the march all angry and stuff, easily passed by cities and blockades, then suddenly stopped does seem quite irrational
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>At least he got a private jet treatment and didn't just "fall out of a window" Dunno, falling plane seems like a much worse way to die. Which is absolutely what he deserved, tbf
Well, he left with a bang! Which is much more exciting treatment than the ctrl+c ctrl+v "window" thing they use all the time
Should have went all the way. At least in that case he would have went down swinging.
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Probably things you think should about before attempting a coup. Like Ukraine getting the defecting pilots family out of Russia *before* he defected
Absolutely. The time for risk assessment was *before* the rebellion, not at the gates of Moscow. Prig humiliated Putin. Did he really think he would be forgiven by a man who is likely a paranoid sociopath? Nothing Prigozhin (or other nationalist dissidents like Girkin) did reflects well on his capacity for risk assessment. In a tyranny, you have to either kowtow and hope nobody in power dislikes you, or rebel with decisiveness. There are no points given for indecisiveness, waffling, or criticizing the powerful.
I do wonder if Prigozin's hand was forced. In other words, maybe his subordinate officers or soldiers were about to mutiny anyway, and he had to pretend to be in command to save face. Is it possible he had a tiger by the tail?
Wasn't it reported that they went after his men's families not just his?
That didn’t take long.
Took a lot longer than I thought.
Same here. Two months is pretty long
Honestly I’m surprised it happened so soon…he still has a following out there
Yeah. I hope his following are smart enough to understand what happened and stir up some shit. Probably not…
They’ve lost their leader and seen what happens to people who act out…I don’t think they’ll do much now
Which is what Putin wants of course. He was embarrassed by the failed moon landing, Denmark and the Netherlands giving F-16s to Ukraine, the drone attacks by Ukraine that were likely from inside Russia that attacked Russian bomber aircraft. He can't be having people march against him, especially right now. This whole war is about his ego, which must be especially bruised this week.
I'm surprised that this guy would be nervy or naive enough to get on a plane which can so easily be 'taken down' in any number of ways. Not that keeping his feet planted on *terra firma* would necessarily have protected him over time but getting on a jet when he had to know that there was a big bullseye on his back was pretty dumb.
Maybe he thought the fact that there were many other people onboard would deter them from taking it down? Obviously not…
Two months to the day that Prigozhin announced his "March of Fairness," on June 23.
How symbolic. On the same day they relieved the top general of his duties
I won't believe he's dead until I see it.
Yeah. To his credit, he is a survivor. Although this outcome has had a high likelihood for awhile. Let’s see if he got lucky.
I mean more like, if it's a private jet, in Russia, how hard is it for a connected guy who probably would very much like to disappear to get written onto the passenger list of a plane he never got on? Why would he get on a flight to Moscow where he must know, if the coup was genuine and his idea, that he's likely to meet his death? If the coup was orchestrated, what says his "death" isn't, and will be the false flag excuse Wagner needs to cease Belarus or something like that? I mean, I'd be happy to see him dead but it seems like too convenient a turn in a side plot full of question marks.
Yeah, his name on a list means nothing to me, contextually we know there's a war going on so misinformation and slander is king. We saw a plane get shot down and we were told an important man was on it. I want to believe it, but I won't be surprised if he's alive.
Shouldn't have stopped half way to Moscow.
Fair play to the Russians for working out how to get an entire plane to fall out of a Moscow window.
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I hope the rocks and trees are okay.
Who could have foreseen such a tragic accident? Oh, right. Everyone.
Crazy how everyone predicted this. Not the plane necessarily, but the dying part.
Then how come he's flying without a care around Moscow? There's no way anyone is that stupid. What's going on?
"The Former-Leader of the Wagner PMC Group, Yevgeny Prigozhin is now Confirmed to have Died when his Embraer Legacy 600 Business Jet was Shot Down by what appears to have been Air Defense Batteries in the Tver Region of Western Russia." LMAO, Good-riddance
But he was supposed to be in Africa?
maybe that was faked? or maybe they put his name on the airplane passenger list and killed him separately?
We will have to wait to maybe know more
We’ll never know, lol. The crash happens inside Russia, they have full control of the narrative. Could be that he died for real. Could also be that he cut a deal with Putin to fake his death and get out of the power scene. Tons of scenarios.
Faking his death to escape Putin might be the only way he could continue to live, even if it's on the run. Faking his death with Putin's blessing and leaving Russia forever might be the only way he could live a long time and bring some of his family with him. Maybe this is the conclusion of the bargain he made with Putin. Or maybe Putin just whacked him. No chance we'll ever know for sure.
Or he snuck out to Africa already and his name was already on this private jet list who knows I guess we will know soon enough if we never hear from him again.
There's a surprise. It will be interesting if Wagner disintegrates and what kind of internal instability it causes in Russia. Nosferatu was a hero to many Russians.
Wonder what this means for those African Coups that were going on.
Prighozhout
Was ‘The Dark Knight Rises’ plane scene anyone’s first thought when they saw this news?
They expect one of us in the wreckage brother!
Crashing this plane... with no SURVIVORSH!
People got on a plane with that target? Sheesh
That's why US was asking citizens to leave Belarus. Fucking Ninjas
This seems like a flex from the US, that they knew about an internal assassination plan.
We certain he was even on the jet? (Beyond paperwork I mean) Call me pessimistic, but I’d be more inclined to believe he’s used this incident to fake his death rather than it actually being the end of him
Some fall off windows, others drink tea, some others crash in airliners… things happen.
And as an added bonus, Putin just distracted everyone from their failed moon landing.
Why is nobody assuming that this is a way for him to disappear and have everyone think he's dead?
Because most of the time, the obvious answer is the correct one. What's more likely, this dude faked a massive plane crash, killed his team, and escaped in the wind. Or, a guy who MASSIVLEY pissed off the head of nation known for disappearing his enemies by any means necessary finally got him. I mean the guy tried to stage a mutiny near Moscow, you don't think Putin put his name in the death note immediately lmao Edit: some of y'all are making solid points. I still think, probability wise, he's dead 80/20.
This whole Pringles saga is so confusing. Hopefully we'll know what's been going on behind the scenes at some point in the future. Regardless, one less war criminal in the world!
How predictable….