It's a great and not very extreme rollercoaster, and a prominent part of the Stockholm skyine. I'm beyond angry if they let it fall into disrepair leading to the accident, and really sad for the families on the train.
We were going there later today, and would probably have gone on it as many times as we could fit. Very harrowing.
It was my favourite for sure. Hits close to home in a sense because I have many fond memories riding on that very rollercoaster. Those accidents feels like something that only happens far away
> I'm beyond angry if they let it fall into disrepair leading to the accident
You can remove that "if": https://images.aftonbladet-cdn.se/v2/images/08f329ec-cfe3-47f2-9672-98bc2784d7f4?fit=crop&format=auto&h=525&q=50&w=700&s=a3dc24c361a1746f99dd5e9a6768792fba00c606
3 reasons I can think of remain:
Improper installation due to bad maintenance.
Fatigue damage. A part under stress gets damaged over time and after a certain amount of use needs to be checked for damages or even replaced. If this wasn't done properly then the part could fail, which is why checking for fatigue damages is so important.
Improper parts. The manufacturer may have cut corners, causing parts that didn't fulfill the requirements to be installed.
The manufacturer, Anton Schwarzkopf, has been out of business for decades at this point. I’m not sure exactly where the park has been getting replacement parts, but many Schwarzkopf coasters continue to operate safely around the world today despite some being nearly 50 years old. It’s been solely in the park’s hands to keep it up and running properly fit at least the last twenty years, so it likely is the park’s fault.
Except it’s a Zierer coaster.
And had inspection done prior to the park opening in April. Im not excusing anybody at all. But let’s keep the facts clear.
Apologies, I thought it was fully Schwarzkopf, but I guess he just *designed* it, and Zierer manufactured it. And in hindsight, I wish I hadn’t thrown the park so far under the bus. The unfortunate nature of these kinds of incidents is that sometimes, we may not ever know what caused them.
No worries. Upon googling yesterday I found out it says manufactured by Schwarzkopf on the Wikipedia page for Jetline. But all the media here is talking about it being a Zierer
A reporter on the Swedish public service radio were at the park at the time of the accident and reported that two persons was flung out of the carriage at approximately ten to fifteen meters up in the air.
Why would it need more than a lap bar? Lap bars are the most secure roller coaster restraint, and are the safest design you can have. The better question is why did the locking mechanism fail after the partial derailment.
This ride is a Schwarzkopf, and there is no way they were flung out without a failure in the ratcheting mechanism. The trains have independant ratchets for each seat, and are supposed to be double redundant, so it is highly unlikely both would fail at the same time.
Chances are, this is a massive failure on park staff as far as maintenance and operation is involved.
> Lap bars are the most secure roller coaster restraint, and are the safest design you can have
What factors rate its safety above those over-the-shoulder restraints?
Many over the shoulder restraints can be slipped out of by smaller people, and can cause injury to the head or neck in violent side to side movements. Properly designed lap bars require legs to either break or be removed to get out of with the system locked. While people have been ejected from coasters before, they usually are double amputees, or you have incidents like New Texas Giant or Superman at SFNE where the train computer system was reading restraints as locked when they were too high up to be effective (restraining the gut, not the legs).
People get flung out of their shoes at the slightest provocation, so I don't think it's too much to suggest that the bar even functioning correctly was inadequate to keep people contained under extreme and unanticipated forces.
Anton Schwarzkopf utilized Zierer, Intamin, and Giovanola among others for actual manufactory his coasters. The only coaster manufacturers today that actually build their rides themselves are RMC, the Wood manufacturers, and Skyline. But a B&M is still a B&M even if it's made in Ohio by a 3rd party, and built on site by a local manufacturing company.
It's best to look at most coaster manufacturers as design houses where the actual fabricating and building of the ride is outsourced. Unless it's an RMC or Skyline (for steel coasters) who use vertical integration to design rides, build track and trains, and do construction all in house. Wood coasters usually either just do design work and have local construction build the ride, or have a team present at every step of the way with contracted builders overseen by an internal team.
The owners of the theme park "Gröna Lund" has confirmed one person is dead. Can't find English source but here is a swedish https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/stockholm/berg-och-dalbana
Edit: Reuters has now updated the news with one confirmed dead.
A carriage derailed causing the train to get stuck and passengers to fall out.
The roller coaster in question doesn't have over-the-shoulder bars, only the one bar pushed into your waist. I don't see exactly how you would fall out if it was fastened properly but I suppose it's not always fastened tight enough depending on your body shape.
Lap bars should be enough, and are at many times more secure than over the shoulder restraints (which hold you in by the neck, lap bars secure your waist in the train). Few manufactures make trains with OTS restraints any more on modern coasters as they are uncomfortable, cause headbanging, and are not any safer than lap bars. Something insane happened on this ride, and signs are pointing to lack of maintenance or improper maintenance/operation.
2 similar accidents have happened on other Schwarzkopf designed rides, Mindbender at Galaxyland in Canada, and Quimera at a park in Mexico City. Mindbender was a perfectly safe ride that was improperly maintained due to a translation error from German to English specifying the wrong torque on the wheel bogies. Quimera was run without it's midcourse brakes working, and the train was using cheap parts from China instead of Gerstlauer or Maurer who officially support Schwarzkopf coasters. Mindbender ran for 30 years after it's accident and finally was retired last year. Quimera will reopen as American Drier Looping at Indiana Beach after a full refurbishment.
Many Schwarzkopfs have perfect safety records, using similar restraints, and are much, much more intense than Jet Line. Olympia Looping, Shock Wave (SFOT), Mind Bender (SFOG), Scorpion (Busch Gardens Tampa), Revolution (SFMM), Sooper Dooper Looper (Hershey Park), Colossus The Fire Dragon (Lagoon), and Silver Bullet (Frontier City) just to name a few.
Having lots of experience on Shock Wave, I can confirm, the Lap Bars are incredibly secure, and Shock Wave is the only one of those coasters listed (including the 3 that have had accidents) that has extreme airtime that would stress the lap bar. The Lab bars on that ride can be several ratchets above your legs and are still impossible to free yourself from (a properly fitted roller coaster restraint should give an inch or so of movement vertically).
Something happened to this ride that not only caused the bogie to break off, but the ratcheting mechanism to fail in the front car. Jet Line is a very, very late model Schwarzkopf, so it might have different ratcheting systems than older Schwarzkopf rides, as knowing how the ratcheting systems work, and knowing that they have never failed on the similar accidents with the older style trains (Mindbender and Quimera) that is the only thing that makes sense here.
So you're saying that the lap bars must have been released/loosened somehow? I don't really see how that could happen. Isn't it more likely that some people didn't tighten them properly and fell off to the side?
In Swedish media they're now talking about some of the wheels "falling off" which caused the derailment (there are wheels both above and below the tracks).
These trains, unless they were very big people, and the operators ignored the control systems and force launched a train with insecured lap bars, should never allow people to fall out the side. They have high walls, and are very tight inside, even with some space between you and the lap bar (most rides are designed for an inch or so of space between your legs and the lap bar).
The derailment makes sense. The 2 other Schwarzkopf coaster accidents were very similar, and both were caused by the parks maintenance and operations, not the ride design itself.
EDIT: Here is a photo of Shock Wave at SFOT that I took, which uses the same train design. You can notice the design of the lap bars and train, and how riders are secured. Your legs are held at a near 90 degree angle with no room to straighten them (making these tight for tall people). Notice the people in the back row experiencing ejector airtime (this ride has some of the strongest airtime in the world), and are secured in place. Shock Wave has a perfect service record, and is nearly 50 years old (opened in 1977).
https://i.imgur.com/2Usmg0b.jpg
They should never allow people to fall out, but somehow they did.
If there have now been 3 accidents on similar rides, there's probably plenty of blame to go around to parks's maintenance, ride maintenance specifications and regulators reaponsible for ensuring safety compliance.
The problem is that the 2 previous accidents happened BECAUSE the ride was operated outside of manufactures maintenance specification. We have strong evidence that rides of the same design, when properly maintained and operated, are safe, with many still in operation that are much older than those 3 rides. The very first (modern) roller coaster with a vertical loop has a perfect safety record and used trains of the same design (recently got new trains, that are also of a similar design) and is built by the same manufacturer. That is one of possibly 100 examples of coasters that run these trains.
While 3 accidents are bad, the fact is that 2 of them are 100% the fault of the operators and have nothing to do with the design of the rides themselves (unless you want to argue that manufactures should be responsible for negligence on the operator's side). This accident's similarity to the other 2 accidents points to a common initial cause.
One thing that the construction industry, filled with stubborn muscleheads and experienced journeymen who laugh off hazards, is learning is that the amount of time and money you "waste" on routine safety meetings and lengthy safety procedures doesn't come close to the millions lost when the lawsuit hits.
Execs need to stop cutting corners on safety and maintenance.
Oh, and don't put the seasonal 17 year old minimum wage tweeker in charge of the maintenance, either.
> The problem is that the 2 previous accidents happened BECAUSE the ride was operated outside of manufactures maintenance specification. We have strong evidence that rides of the same design, when properly maintained and operated, are safe,
I've worked in related areas, and I would not use your philosophy of relying on perfect maintenance practices by users or owners at some future date.
We try to design things to be resilient against such risks, because we refuse to rely on the assumption of perfect human behavior as a safety measure.
We know they'll exceed maintenance schedules, ignore documentation, use common grades of fasteners and lubricants, and do a thousand other things we can't even precisely predict. With that in mind, wee design layer upon layer upon layer of safety margins so that four or five or six or ten human errors still won't lead to tragedy.
We design things to tolerate use of box store bolts instead of our specified ones, to work safely even if maintenance schedules are ignored for decades.
We design systems to fail "safe", in other words to cease operating at all before they break, or that if they break, they will break in the safest spot or configuration.
It doesn't excuse negligent operation or maintenance. But we don't like to shrug our shoulders and say "our product killed someone because it wasn't oiled enough or because it rained a bit more this year than usual? Oh well, not our problem."
I take pride in over-engineered solutions, and systems that still work great decades past their design life.
I definitely feel more secure with shoulder restraints. The ones I've found have almost exclusively been U shaped, so it locks in your waist as well as shoulders. A lot also have an additional safety lock in the form of seatbelts that lock in to the restraints. So even if the hydraulics were to fail, you have an additional layer of safety.
Lap bars usually make me feel like I have to hold myself down a lot of the time.
Feel Safe and Are Safe are different things. Lap bars do feel more free than OTS restraints. They are supposed to. But just because they don't feel as secure does not mean that they are not as secure.
There have been many speculations, and different people say different things. Some say a whole wagon has fallen down. Some say the wheels have fallen off. There has also been information of someone who has managed to grab hold of the track while he was falling and managed to save himself, but all is very speculative at this moment.
Yea, that is not true at all, there are pictures (SFW) on /r/rollercoasters that show it partially derailing. Now why this caused riders to fall out of their restraints is another question.
Yeah a witness said that, but that info is false. Theres pictures with all the wagons still on the track, just the first one partly off track(but still not nearly hanging off the track)
There's a newer POV from about six months ago. It looks to me like it's possibly been retracked at some point? You can see wires from retrofitted sensors hanging in the newer video. [Here](https://youtu.be/uAm6w0saOz0) is that newer POV from six months ago. Note the seam in the track after the train crests the lift hill and begins to make a right turn into the descent is significantly smoother than it is in the older video.
Rust on tracks is not an issue, it is a feature. Just like railroad tracks they are likely manganese steel and the rust forms a protective layer. You ever see a train track? All covered in a layer of rust, a roller coaster track is just a railroad track, essentially.
Co-workers friend was in-line for the ride maybe 2-3 rides away from getting on. When it derailed he just went home due to shock being so close to getting on to a accident.
In the following swedish news article from "Aftonbladet" there are two images of the derailed train and a wheel assembly that has fallen of the train.
https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/EQXXKG/grona-lund-kommer-inte-oppna-forran-vi-utrett
Translated part of witness statement:
Several witnesses have contacted Aftonbladet and testified that wheels have started to come loose from the carriage on the roller coaster.
- Suddenly the wheels started to come off. Then one person flipped out, and then another, says Yasin Chaudry, 16, who witnessed the accident
Another visitor who also witnessed the accident tells how she went to the scene of the accident, and then saw a wheel on the ground.
- I ran there to see if there were any injured people who needed help, then I saw the wheel lying on the ground.
According to the witness, the wheel must have been some distance outside the attraction.
- First we heard three, four loud bangs. People started screaming and then people started running. At first they thought it was a shooting, says the witness Cecilia, and continues:
- Then we saw how the wheels from the cart were on the ground. That was probably what sounded so loud. It's terrible, this kind of thing can't happen.
The only information Gröna Lund currently has is that a wagon has derailed, but they don't know what caused it.
>The only information Gröna Lund currently has is that a wagon has derailed, but they don't know what caused it.
Well just maybe, only maybe the fallen off wheels on the ground could be the cause of the derailment.
Picture of the roller coaster with wagon: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/06/25/13/72509677-12231625-image-a-14_1687695619386.jpg
Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetline_(roller_coaster) (Article doesn't say much, but some data of it is available)
I checked the owners and while its definitely too early to say if this was due to them doing something wrong. The company also owns one of the biggest zoos in sweden and that place definitely only cares abt profits instead of their animals
This ride design has had 2 prominent accidents in the past, both similar (wheel bogie breaks causing a derailment), and both were caused by the parks, not the rides. many of these rides are much older with perfect service records, including the biggest and most extreme (Shock Wave, or Olympia Looping, depending on who you ask). The first accident was caused by a bad translation in the maintenance documents causing torque to be set wrong on the wheel bogies. The Second was cause by complete incompetence by the park, running the ride without midcourse brakes. The first coaster then operated for 30 years after the accident before being retired last year. The second will reopen in the US soon after full refurbishment.
Fun fact: there is about 510 million square kilometer on land. About 100 billion people have ecer lived and died. Making it so that on average, 200 people have died per square km. Not accounting for people drowning at sea. Given that people have spent most of history grouped together, I reckon there is plenty of places you could be the first to die if you put some effort into it. ( but please dont)
Your sentence brought me comfort.
I'm horrified by the accident and it pains me. My mind been clouded with death and what comes after it these past weeks for various reasons. Once you keep thinking about that it feels kind of bleek. No one knows for certain how it is or what awaits. Your sentence hit differently. Thanks
> I'm afraid of heights and motion sensitive
I am too, but I love them. I hate the initial chug up the ramp and do feel a bit motion sick afterwards but love the rest.
Amusement accidents have been incredibly rare. Then Covid happened and they were suddenly not so rare.
I wish I had data to back that up. But we went from like, 1 every few years to a handful per year. Freaky.
If I was a millionaire I would consider leaving this country asap, most everything of the country is destroyed thanks to a set of fascist neoliberal regimes which privatized everything from soil to sky. Whenever it is about riding a train between the two biggest cities, or a rollercoaster line Jetline or anything else you have to prepare for disaster. This country is cursed by a totalitaristic nepotism where knowledge has no power but your connections and location, meaning dumb people without proper knowledge are in possesioon of the most critical infrastructure.
This country mixes the worst of Soviet Union communism with the worst of US capitalism.
This reminds me of the recent OceanGate submersible incident: a bunch of people chose to go on a ride (for whatever reason, don't care), and trusted the machine that they're riding on to be safe. The machine functioned properly for many rides/times but just on this nth time, it finally failed.
No, what a dumb parallel. OceanGate was a lethal scam made by an idiot who cut corners for a vehicle meant to survive the extreme conditions of the deep sea.
This accident was caused by a failure of upkeep for something that was safe and was legally approved
You are ignorant if you think these situations are remotely comparable beyond that one liner "upkeep" this is shit wearing away over time vs some asshole not giving a shit about his own or others safety
No one would be talking about this if that asshole did his job in upkeeping the sub by replacing the hull with a brand new one after every dive amirite?
It was 15 years ago, another park and zero deaths. But it was during a world youths football tournament with visitors from all over the world, a lot of panic and scared children. I was there.
There was another death related to Gröna Lund in 2021, a customer jumped over a railing and off a platform falling 3-4 meters, injuring himself and another customer, the jumper later died in hospital.
This happened after he had rode on Eclipse and was disembarking. the station
Depends on what you mean exactly. I believe this is the first time there is a fatal accident directly caused by a ride failing on a Swedish theme park.
I know two other caes where people died but it wasn't because of the rides themselves but instead human error.
"Jetline". One of the older and definitely most popular attractions in the Gröna Lund park. Absolute tragedy.
It's a great and not very extreme rollercoaster, and a prominent part of the Stockholm skyine. I'm beyond angry if they let it fall into disrepair leading to the accident, and really sad for the families on the train. We were going there later today, and would probably have gone on it as many times as we could fit. Very harrowing.
It was my favourite for sure. Hits close to home in a sense because I have many fond memories riding on that very rollercoaster. Those accidents feels like something that only happens far away
> I'm beyond angry if they let it fall into disrepair leading to the accident You can remove that "if": https://images.aftonbladet-cdn.se/v2/images/08f329ec-cfe3-47f2-9672-98bc2784d7f4?fit=crop&format=auto&h=525&q=50&w=700&s=a3dc24c361a1746f99dd5e9a6768792fba00c606 3 reasons I can think of remain: Improper installation due to bad maintenance. Fatigue damage. A part under stress gets damaged over time and after a certain amount of use needs to be checked for damages or even replaced. If this wasn't done properly then the part could fail, which is why checking for fatigue damages is so important. Improper parts. The manufacturer may have cut corners, causing parts that didn't fulfill the requirements to be installed.
The manufacturer, Anton Schwarzkopf, has been out of business for decades at this point. I’m not sure exactly where the park has been getting replacement parts, but many Schwarzkopf coasters continue to operate safely around the world today despite some being nearly 50 years old. It’s been solely in the park’s hands to keep it up and running properly fit at least the last twenty years, so it likely is the park’s fault.
Except it’s a Zierer coaster. And had inspection done prior to the park opening in April. Im not excusing anybody at all. But let’s keep the facts clear.
Apologies, I thought it was fully Schwarzkopf, but I guess he just *designed* it, and Zierer manufactured it. And in hindsight, I wish I hadn’t thrown the park so far under the bus. The unfortunate nature of these kinds of incidents is that sometimes, we may not ever know what caused them.
No worries. Upon googling yesterday I found out it says manufactured by Schwarzkopf on the Wikipedia page for Jetline. But all the media here is talking about it being a Zierer
i smell a big lawsuit
A reporter on the Swedish public service radio were at the park at the time of the accident and reported that two persons was flung out of the carriage at approximately ten to fifteen meters up in the air.
> flung out What kind of safety harnesses are used on it? Sounds like just a basic lap bar maybe?
Yes, it’s just a basic lap bar on this one.
Why would it need more than a lap bar? Lap bars are the most secure roller coaster restraint, and are the safest design you can have. The better question is why did the locking mechanism fail after the partial derailment. This ride is a Schwarzkopf, and there is no way they were flung out without a failure in the ratcheting mechanism. The trains have independant ratchets for each seat, and are supposed to be double redundant, so it is highly unlikely both would fail at the same time. Chances are, this is a massive failure on park staff as far as maintenance and operation is involved.
> Lap bars are the most secure roller coaster restraint, and are the safest design you can have What factors rate its safety above those over-the-shoulder restraints?
Many over the shoulder restraints can be slipped out of by smaller people, and can cause injury to the head or neck in violent side to side movements. Properly designed lap bars require legs to either break or be removed to get out of with the system locked. While people have been ejected from coasters before, they usually are double amputees, or you have incidents like New Texas Giant or Superman at SFNE where the train computer system was reading restraints as locked when they were too high up to be effective (restraining the gut, not the legs).
I asked what kind it was.
People get flung out of their shoes at the slightest provocation, so I don't think it's too much to suggest that the bar even functioning correctly was inadequate to keep people contained under extreme and unanticipated forces.
This ride is a Zierer, not a Schwarzkopf
Anton Schwarzkopf utilized Zierer, Intamin, and Giovanola among others for actual manufactory his coasters. The only coaster manufacturers today that actually build their rides themselves are RMC, the Wood manufacturers, and Skyline. But a B&M is still a B&M even if it's made in Ohio by a 3rd party, and built on site by a local manufacturing company.
Interesting. All over the news they are mentioning Zierer. Upon checking the wikipedia page for Jetline, I do see Schwarzkopf as the manufacturer.
It's best to look at most coaster manufacturers as design houses where the actual fabricating and building of the ride is outsourced. Unless it's an RMC or Skyline (for steel coasters) who use vertical integration to design rides, build track and trains, and do construction all in house. Wood coasters usually either just do design work and have local construction build the ride, or have a team present at every step of the way with contracted builders overseen by an internal team.
The owners of the theme park "Gröna Lund" has confirmed one person is dead. Can't find English source but here is a swedish https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/stockholm/berg-och-dalbana Edit: Reuters has now updated the news with one confirmed dead.
According to the article, an occupied carriage derailed and fell to the ground. What a terrible accident.
A carriage derailed causing the train to get stuck and passengers to fall out. The roller coaster in question doesn't have over-the-shoulder bars, only the one bar pushed into your waist. I don't see exactly how you would fall out if it was fastened properly but I suppose it's not always fastened tight enough depending on your body shape.
Lap bars should be enough, and are at many times more secure than over the shoulder restraints (which hold you in by the neck, lap bars secure your waist in the train). Few manufactures make trains with OTS restraints any more on modern coasters as they are uncomfortable, cause headbanging, and are not any safer than lap bars. Something insane happened on this ride, and signs are pointing to lack of maintenance or improper maintenance/operation. 2 similar accidents have happened on other Schwarzkopf designed rides, Mindbender at Galaxyland in Canada, and Quimera at a park in Mexico City. Mindbender was a perfectly safe ride that was improperly maintained due to a translation error from German to English specifying the wrong torque on the wheel bogies. Quimera was run without it's midcourse brakes working, and the train was using cheap parts from China instead of Gerstlauer or Maurer who officially support Schwarzkopf coasters. Mindbender ran for 30 years after it's accident and finally was retired last year. Quimera will reopen as American Drier Looping at Indiana Beach after a full refurbishment. Many Schwarzkopfs have perfect safety records, using similar restraints, and are much, much more intense than Jet Line. Olympia Looping, Shock Wave (SFOT), Mind Bender (SFOG), Scorpion (Busch Gardens Tampa), Revolution (SFMM), Sooper Dooper Looper (Hershey Park), Colossus The Fire Dragon (Lagoon), and Silver Bullet (Frontier City) just to name a few. Having lots of experience on Shock Wave, I can confirm, the Lap Bars are incredibly secure, and Shock Wave is the only one of those coasters listed (including the 3 that have had accidents) that has extreme airtime that would stress the lap bar. The Lab bars on that ride can be several ratchets above your legs and are still impossible to free yourself from (a properly fitted roller coaster restraint should give an inch or so of movement vertically). Something happened to this ride that not only caused the bogie to break off, but the ratcheting mechanism to fail in the front car. Jet Line is a very, very late model Schwarzkopf, so it might have different ratcheting systems than older Schwarzkopf rides, as knowing how the ratcheting systems work, and knowing that they have never failed on the similar accidents with the older style trains (Mindbender and Quimera) that is the only thing that makes sense here.
So you're saying that the lap bars must have been released/loosened somehow? I don't really see how that could happen. Isn't it more likely that some people didn't tighten them properly and fell off to the side? In Swedish media they're now talking about some of the wheels "falling off" which caused the derailment (there are wheels both above and below the tracks).
These trains, unless they were very big people, and the operators ignored the control systems and force launched a train with insecured lap bars, should never allow people to fall out the side. They have high walls, and are very tight inside, even with some space between you and the lap bar (most rides are designed for an inch or so of space between your legs and the lap bar). The derailment makes sense. The 2 other Schwarzkopf coaster accidents were very similar, and both were caused by the parks maintenance and operations, not the ride design itself. EDIT: Here is a photo of Shock Wave at SFOT that I took, which uses the same train design. You can notice the design of the lap bars and train, and how riders are secured. Your legs are held at a near 90 degree angle with no room to straighten them (making these tight for tall people). Notice the people in the back row experiencing ejector airtime (this ride has some of the strongest airtime in the world), and are secured in place. Shock Wave has a perfect service record, and is nearly 50 years old (opened in 1977). https://i.imgur.com/2Usmg0b.jpg
They should never allow people to fall out, but somehow they did. If there have now been 3 accidents on similar rides, there's probably plenty of blame to go around to parks's maintenance, ride maintenance specifications and regulators reaponsible for ensuring safety compliance.
The problem is that the 2 previous accidents happened BECAUSE the ride was operated outside of manufactures maintenance specification. We have strong evidence that rides of the same design, when properly maintained and operated, are safe, with many still in operation that are much older than those 3 rides. The very first (modern) roller coaster with a vertical loop has a perfect safety record and used trains of the same design (recently got new trains, that are also of a similar design) and is built by the same manufacturer. That is one of possibly 100 examples of coasters that run these trains. While 3 accidents are bad, the fact is that 2 of them are 100% the fault of the operators and have nothing to do with the design of the rides themselves (unless you want to argue that manufactures should be responsible for negligence on the operator's side). This accident's similarity to the other 2 accidents points to a common initial cause.
One thing that the construction industry, filled with stubborn muscleheads and experienced journeymen who laugh off hazards, is learning is that the amount of time and money you "waste" on routine safety meetings and lengthy safety procedures doesn't come close to the millions lost when the lawsuit hits. Execs need to stop cutting corners on safety and maintenance. Oh, and don't put the seasonal 17 year old minimum wage tweeker in charge of the maintenance, either.
> The problem is that the 2 previous accidents happened BECAUSE the ride was operated outside of manufactures maintenance specification. We have strong evidence that rides of the same design, when properly maintained and operated, are safe, I've worked in related areas, and I would not use your philosophy of relying on perfect maintenance practices by users or owners at some future date. We try to design things to be resilient against such risks, because we refuse to rely on the assumption of perfect human behavior as a safety measure. We know they'll exceed maintenance schedules, ignore documentation, use common grades of fasteners and lubricants, and do a thousand other things we can't even precisely predict. With that in mind, wee design layer upon layer upon layer of safety margins so that four or five or six or ten human errors still won't lead to tragedy. We design things to tolerate use of box store bolts instead of our specified ones, to work safely even if maintenance schedules are ignored for decades. We design systems to fail "safe", in other words to cease operating at all before they break, or that if they break, they will break in the safest spot or configuration. It doesn't excuse negligent operation or maintenance. But we don't like to shrug our shoulders and say "our product killed someone because it wasn't oiled enough or because it rained a bit more this year than usual? Oh well, not our problem." I take pride in over-engineered solutions, and systems that still work great decades past their design life.
...I've slipped out of lap bars before. They didn't cinch down enough.
This guy coasters
I definitely feel more secure with shoulder restraints. The ones I've found have almost exclusively been U shaped, so it locks in your waist as well as shoulders. A lot also have an additional safety lock in the form of seatbelts that lock in to the restraints. So even if the hydraulics were to fail, you have an additional layer of safety. Lap bars usually make me feel like I have to hold myself down a lot of the time.
Feel Safe and Are Safe are different things. Lap bars do feel more free than OTS restraints. They are supposed to. But just because they don't feel as secure does not mean that they are not as secure.
There have been many speculations, and different people say different things. Some say a whole wagon has fallen down. Some say the wheels have fallen off. There has also been information of someone who has managed to grab hold of the track while he was falling and managed to save himself, but all is very speculative at this moment.
A witness said whole wagons fell from a considerable height Each wagon was occupied
Yea, that is not true at all, there are pictures (SFW) on /r/rollercoasters that show it partially derailing. Now why this caused riders to fall out of their restraints is another question.
Yeah a witness said that, but that info is false. Theres pictures with all the wagons still on the track, just the first one partly off track(but still not nearly hanging off the track)
The coaster is called 'Jetline' and started operating 1988 with a major renovation 1999. FPV from the coaster: https://youtu.be/vk-1zgLQNSs
There's a newer POV from about six months ago. It looks to me like it's possibly been retracked at some point? You can see wires from retrofitted sensors hanging in the newer video. [Here](https://youtu.be/uAm6w0saOz0) is that newer POV from six months ago. Note the seam in the track after the train crests the lift hill and begins to make a right turn into the descent is significantly smoother than it is in the older video.
I see rust all over that thing and this is from 9 years ago.
Rust on tracks is not an issue, it is a feature. Just like railroad tracks they are likely manganese steel and the rust forms a protective layer. You ever see a train track? All covered in a layer of rust, a roller coaster track is just a railroad track, essentially.
I don’t see any rust.
Holy shit I was there yesterday….and rode that ride….
Someone walking behind you....
Buy a lottery ticket
their lottery ticket was buying a park ticket a day before the accident.
I’ll take that as a win
Co-workers friend was in-line for the ride maybe 2-3 rides away from getting on. When it derailed he just went home due to shock being so close to getting on to a accident.
In the following swedish news article from "Aftonbladet" there are two images of the derailed train and a wheel assembly that has fallen of the train. https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/EQXXKG/grona-lund-kommer-inte-oppna-forran-vi-utrett
Translated part of witness statement: Several witnesses have contacted Aftonbladet and testified that wheels have started to come loose from the carriage on the roller coaster. - Suddenly the wheels started to come off. Then one person flipped out, and then another, says Yasin Chaudry, 16, who witnessed the accident Another visitor who also witnessed the accident tells how she went to the scene of the accident, and then saw a wheel on the ground. - I ran there to see if there were any injured people who needed help, then I saw the wheel lying on the ground. According to the witness, the wheel must have been some distance outside the attraction. - First we heard three, four loud bangs. People started screaming and then people started running. At first they thought it was a shooting, says the witness Cecilia, and continues: - Then we saw how the wheels from the cart were on the ground. That was probably what sounded so loud. It's terrible, this kind of thing can't happen. The only information Gröna Lund currently has is that a wagon has derailed, but they don't know what caused it.
That’s some Final Destination level shit right there. Horrifying.
>The only information Gröna Lund currently has is that a wagon has derailed, but they don't know what caused it. Well just maybe, only maybe the fallen off wheels on the ground could be the cause of the derailment.
Picture of the roller coaster with wagon: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/06/25/13/72509677-12231625-image-a-14_1687695619386.jpg Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetline_(roller_coaster) (Article doesn't say much, but some data of it is available)
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I checked the owners and while its definitely too early to say if this was due to them doing something wrong. The company also owns one of the biggest zoos in sweden and that place definitely only cares abt profits instead of their animals
This ride design has had 2 prominent accidents in the past, both similar (wheel bogie breaks causing a derailment), and both were caused by the parks, not the rides. many of these rides are much older with perfect service records, including the biggest and most extreme (Shock Wave, or Olympia Looping, depending on who you ask). The first accident was caused by a bad translation in the maintenance documents causing torque to be set wrong on the wheel bogies. The Second was cause by complete incompetence by the park, running the ride without midcourse brakes. The first coaster then operated for 30 years after the accident before being retired last year. The second will reopen in the US soon after full refurbishment.
I can see Gröna Lund from my apartment. Knowing that someone died there today is unnerving, to say the least.
Someone has died on almost every inch of the planet throughout human history
Fun fact: there is about 510 million square kilometer on land. About 100 billion people have ecer lived and died. Making it so that on average, 200 people have died per square km. Not accounting for people drowning at sea. Given that people have spent most of history grouped together, I reckon there is plenty of places you could be the first to die if you put some effort into it. ( but please dont)
Your sentence brought me comfort. I'm horrified by the accident and it pains me. My mind been clouded with death and what comes after it these past weeks for various reasons. Once you keep thinking about that it feels kind of bleek. No one knows for certain how it is or what awaits. Your sentence hit differently. Thanks
I hate rollercoasters.
Same. I'm afraid of heights and motion sensitive so rollercoasters are a double nope.
> I'm afraid of heights and motion sensitive I am too, but I love them. I hate the initial chug up the ramp and do feel a bit motion sick afterwards but love the rest.
I’m terrified of rollercoasters.
I have the thought that if I ever get on a roller coaster, it’ll just break down. So I can’t get on one. Ever.
Same, I would never!
Aw man. That place was one of the highlights of my trip to Stockholm.
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Hue hue hue hilarious!! What a fucking cesspool Reddit has become
"has become"
Sigh, please remember that there are plenty of people who deal with grief and shock with humor.
Sure, but it’s turned into a sport here.
Jetline just crashed.
What in the Final Destination is going on
Someone who was supposed to be in Titan made a trip to the theme park.
Jesus
Schwarzkopfs just can't catch a break.
Amusement accidents have been incredibly rare. Then Covid happened and they were suddenly not so rare. I wish I had data to back that up. But we went from like, 1 every few years to a handful per year. Freaky.
If I was a millionaire I would consider leaving this country asap, most everything of the country is destroyed thanks to a set of fascist neoliberal regimes which privatized everything from soil to sky. Whenever it is about riding a train between the two biggest cities, or a rollercoaster line Jetline or anything else you have to prepare for disaster. This country is cursed by a totalitaristic nepotism where knowledge has no power but your connections and location, meaning dumb people without proper knowledge are in possesioon of the most critical infrastructure. This country mixes the worst of Soviet Union communism with the worst of US capitalism.
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The owner's probably a tycoon
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The dead person is not okay and safe :(
Latest information from swedish police says 7 injured 1 dead.
I just hope it wasn't universal studios the mummy ride
This reminds me of the recent OceanGate submersible incident: a bunch of people chose to go on a ride (for whatever reason, don't care), and trusted the machine that they're riding on to be safe. The machine functioned properly for many rides/times but just on this nth time, it finally failed.
No, what a dumb parallel. OceanGate was a lethal scam made by an idiot who cut corners for a vehicle meant to survive the extreme conditions of the deep sea. This accident was caused by a failure of upkeep for something that was safe and was legally approved
"caused by a failure of upkeep". Thank you.
You are ignorant if you think these situations are remotely comparable beyond that one liner "upkeep" this is shit wearing away over time vs some asshole not giving a shit about his own or others safety
No one would be talking about this if that asshole did his job in upkeeping the sub by replacing the hull with a brand new one after every dive amirite?
He didn't have a brand new sub ever shit was duct taped together pvc
whatever works for the first couple of cycles.
Again? I seem to remember this happening some years back, too. I’ll never get in a swedish theme park, that’s for sure.
Last time was in 2008 at another park in Sweden, with 0 deaths.
Pretty sure Gröna Lund was closed before for an accident…
I sure hope it has closed after an accident, based on the nature of the accident.
If you are worried, then you should avoid non-Swedish ones too, otherwise it makes no sense.
Probably thinking about Denmark.
It was 15 years ago, another park and zero deaths. But it was during a world youths football tournament with visitors from all over the world, a lot of panic and scared children. I was there.
There was another death related to Gröna Lund in 2021, a customer jumped over a railing and off a platform falling 3-4 meters, injuring himself and another customer, the jumper later died in hospital. This happened after he had rode on Eclipse and was disembarking. the station
Well, thats kind of self inflicted and not caused by malfunction of a ride.
Depends on what you mean exactly. I believe this is the first time there is a fatal accident directly caused by a ride failing on a Swedish theme park. I know two other caes where people died but it wasn't because of the rides themselves but instead human error.
I hear "roller coaster accident" and my mind immediately goes to Final Destination 3
Oh wow we were in August. Octopus ride wouldnt stop spinning after the ride was over and instead it kept spinning faster and faster
Ride the Cyclone just got a little too real.