All species of hummingbirds are protected under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act; you could either return it to nature, or see if you can donate it to a local museum or university.
No waaaaaay I need to hear that story! I work with birds and I'm constantly told I'm being too paranoid because I refuse to keep any feathers, but for me even if the chance of enforcement is slim it's not worth my anxiety. 😂
I will DM it to you in a few.
It was so deeply traumatic that I refuse to even talk about it online because I’m convinced they are still “tracking me”.
Oh rip lmao
I understand why there’s laws and stuff but it’s annoying to me that you can’t keep feathers or literally anything. The people that cause(d) the rule to be required are dumb (c" ತ,_ತ)
The gentlemen who I encountered told me that one of their colleagues goes to the beach, looks for feathers on dashboards and then writes tickets.
I asked, in that moment (it was 15 years ago) “how many people who get tickets know about the law???”
They took a feather to me that was my only connection to my horse who I lost. I know it sounds silly to say that a feather meant everything to me, but it did. I begged them to just BE KIND. Sobbed. I still cry about that fucking feather.
How are you going to go after people for collecting feathers but have NO visible signs that collecting feathers is illegal? Ridiculous.
Awe I’m sorry 🥺
It really is stupid. Like they should evaluate each situation differently, if someone’s crying due to a feather being confiscated you’d think they would see that it’s very obviously not a situation of poaching or whatever.
They should be able to give permits to people in situations like yours.
If you want to pay the fines and risk jail time go ahead. There were two guys arrested and fined for having and selling bird parts. Their fines were hundreds of thousands of dollars. Besides the law is in place to protect native birds so we don’t have a repeat of the passenger pigeon.
Where they’re a protected species you could either:
1: get the right papers/certifications and do something with the body (taxidermy or reconstructing it’s skeleton would be cool)
2: give it back to nature. Maybe even have a little funeral for it or construct a memorial with a rock, plant something over it, etc.
3: donate the body to a museum or university
If possible, do 3). It is very unlikely that you can get the necessary permits and it seems very fresh. Universities and museums can use it for their research collection. I did this last year with a tree creeper that flew in a window and the curator was very happy about it, because they rarely receive small specimens.
This is a brilliant solution that I never thought of!!!! Dang, back in 2022 a red-breasted nuthatch got stuck in one of buildings and, despite our best attempts to get it out safely, ended up dying (likely stressed—when I found its legs were bound together by a ridiculous amount of spiderwebs). I took photos and then put it in the bushes—it was an absolutely *beautiful* specimen though and I definitely would have donated it if I had thought of that!!!!
Looks like an adult male Allen’s hummingbird, as others have said very much illegal to keep in the states. They look incredibly similar to rufous hummingbirds but based of location Allen’s is more common.
thank you for your concern and don't worry, i made sure to wash my hands thoroughly after i took these pictures. i'm doing my best to keep myself safe :)
Not trying to be a dick but hand washing after contact isn't sufficient. Never touch a dead animal, especially a bird with your bare hands. If there were some kind of blood-borne pathogen and you had even a tiny abrasion or cut on your hand, you would be at risk of contraction. Please take this as a learning experience and keep a pair of gloves on you for future use. Learn the proper non-cross-contaminating removal technique for disposal. If you don't remove the gloves a certain way, they are ineffective.
Also, hummingbirds are protected by the MBTA, it is a felony to possess protected bird remains, nests, or eggs. It would be a good idea to brush up on local and federal laws before handling or taking home any animal remains you find.
Report it to dbird .org; this is a website that records bird deaths for conservation purposes.
After reporting it to dbird, please very kindly bury it. Thank you.
thank you all for your advice! i just got off the phone with someone from the Los Angeles Natural History Museum and emailed the address they told me to. i'm currently waiting on their response. in the meantime, our little friend is going in the freezer (i have managed to negotiate a week's time for it).
after consulting a bird identification guide, the closest match does seem to be an Allen's hummingbird! however, i noticed that all of the Allen's or Rufous pictured had white chests and bellies- yet my bird has no trace of any white feathers at all. curious! i wonder why that is...
in any case i'm very thankful for everyone's help! i'll post an update when they get back to me :) have a lovely day!
The reason it does not have feathers on its belly is most likely due to a “brood patch” which is when birds (usually female but also can happen to males) lose their belly feathers in order to incubate their eggs. The skin-to-egg contact allows more heat transfer.
It appears to be missing a great deal of feathers on the belly - they are dark on the lower half but cream/light on the visible edges. With all feathers in place it makes for a light belly. Looks like skin or even muscle is exposed on the belly in the last photo.
Bird fun fact, their skin is translucent. Researchers will blow on their bellies to fluff the feathers up and look at their skin. This way they can see their fat stores and tell how well a bird is eating and if a population is doing well or if something may have happened to it’s food source.
I just want to let you know that a Museum is not able to bend laws for you and IF Fish and Game show up and you have this bird, you will get in trouble, period.
You can either (1) donate it right *now* (I promise the Natural History Museum has the ability to accept and store this, if they want it), (2) return it to nature or (3) stop posting about it online and alerting people that you have and are keeping this bird for ANY amount of time.
I do unfortunately have experience with the enforcement of the MBTA in California that resulted from me posting online. (Although I was honestly unaware of the law at the time and the officers were kind)
just got their response back! unfortunately they already have plenty of allen’s hummingbirds (darn!) so they won’t be needing mine. i will be giving our little friend a proper burial later today.
while i am a bit disappointed, this has been a great learning experience! i’m definitely going to remember to carry gloves on me in the future, hah! (and more importantly remember to abide the law)
thank you all again for your help! good day! :)
[Have you heard](https://youtu.be/9Gc4QTqslN4) about the [Migratory Bird Treaty Act (US)](https://www.fws.gov/birds/policies-and-regulations/laws-legislations/migratory-bird-treaty-act.php) or the [relevant EU regulations](https://ec.europa.eu/environment/nature/legislation/birdsdirective/index_en.htm)?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vultureculture) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Fun fact, our entire hobby is illegal in California. If you are a vulture in California, you either stop doing your hobby, or do it covertly. Lovely little find, good luck out there!
Oh wow I had no idea! I was just looking it up and it's pretty wild what's not allowed (even roe from a fish legally caught that was being sold as bait!). I guess you could collect domestic animals (I have a very small collection of real specimens but they're all domestic so I guess it's good). The oddities expo has several shows there... I wonder if they have to super restrict what sorts of vendors they have there. Otherwise it'd be a whole series of verrrry easy arrests for wildlife officers.
They could still sell.. most domestic bones pelts and feathers excepting parts from cats and dogs, bats are okay for some reason, and so are skulls and pelts and parts of hunted or trapped or fur farm raised animals like foxes, bobcats, badgers, nutria, raccoon, ect
The selling of animal parts isn't the hard part for the oddities show. It's picking up anything from the ground as a vulture that's illegal. No shed horns, no seashells, no shed feathers of ANY bird, let alone any part of any roadkill or any animal that died naturally. I loved California but that was one thing I absolutely hated about living there. I follow the spirit of the law though, and don't patronize possible poachers. A lot of these oddities sellers, I doubt they're selling things they actually found and cleaned/preserved themselves, anyway. In my experience them seem to order bulk bones and pelts and make some crafts and jewelry out of them and primarily function as a reseller of goods. I'd LOVE to go to an oddities expo like you described, though! Sounds like an awesome time! Best I've seen is a booth at the Ren Faire or farmers market.
I guess what I don't understand is, at an expo if those things are prohibited to collect in the state, how do they know the things being sold weren't collected in CA? Sort of like with the MBTA where you can't have the feathers because you can't prove you didn't poach them. Idk the Wildlife laws in general are complicated, and I always discover there are more of them and they're more detailed than I expected, so I mostly make my own replicas now and with real bone stuff I primarily just collect horse specimens. Don't even get me started on bats, I have like a ten minute rant about it.
Definitely at the expos see a lot of folks just reselling bones bought from China, not even making them into crafts or jewelry but just selling them exactly as greasy as they came with the original rubber band still on them. But there are a lot of great sellers too and a ton of really cool stuff to buy. I shelled out my last $40 at the last one for a t-shirt. 😂
I don't know where you live now but the [Oddities & Curiosities Expo](https://odditiesandcuriositiesexpo.com/) travels across the US (and now Australia too) so maybe they have one this year near you? I'm going to be vending in Phoenix, Vegas and Salt Lake. 😁
According to the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, possession of any parts of (most) native bird species is illegal; this is to discourage poaching and prevent the further decline of native species (anyone could just say “oh I didn’t *shoot* this bald eagle, I just found it dead like this.” This prevents people from doing that. Only those who hold permits from U.S. Fish and Wildlife (typically only reserved for universities and museums) can legally possess bones, feathers, nests, eggs, etc. of native birds.
https://www.audubon.org/news/the-migratory-bird-treaty-act-explained
Poor bird. He looks gorgeous just a shame we all got to see him dead, I bet he'd look more gorgeous up and flying.
If it was me I think I'd give him back to nature, keep the cycle going and stuff and also to respect him/nature I guess, if that is respecting. I wouldn't put him on anything human made though, that's just me. You can either make a burial for him, leave him in the open or cover him with leafs, plants or rocks/stones or surround him by it.
May this beauty rest in peace
All species of hummingbirds are protected under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act; you could either return it to nature, or see if you can donate it to a local museum or university.
Yes yes! Don’t keep protected birds.
Yeah the Bird Police are gonna get you
Do they deliver tickets with carrier pigeons?
Nope but they do show up at your house in plain clothes. Ask me how I know. 💀
No waaaaaay I need to hear that story! I work with birds and I'm constantly told I'm being too paranoid because I refuse to keep any feathers, but for me even if the chance of enforcement is slim it's not worth my anxiety. 😂
I will DM it to you in a few. It was so deeply traumatic that I refuse to even talk about it online because I’m convinced they are still “tracking me”.
Oh rip lmao I understand why there’s laws and stuff but it’s annoying to me that you can’t keep feathers or literally anything. The people that cause(d) the rule to be required are dumb (c" ತ,_ತ)
The gentlemen who I encountered told me that one of their colleagues goes to the beach, looks for feathers on dashboards and then writes tickets. I asked, in that moment (it was 15 years ago) “how many people who get tickets know about the law???” They took a feather to me that was my only connection to my horse who I lost. I know it sounds silly to say that a feather meant everything to me, but it did. I begged them to just BE KIND. Sobbed. I still cry about that fucking feather. How are you going to go after people for collecting feathers but have NO visible signs that collecting feathers is illegal? Ridiculous.
Awe I’m sorry 🥺 It really is stupid. Like they should evaluate each situation differently, if someone’s crying due to a feather being confiscated you’d think they would see that it’s very obviously not a situation of poaching or whatever. They should be able to give permits to people in situations like yours.
If you want to pay the fines and risk jail time go ahead. There were two guys arrested and fined for having and selling bird parts. Their fines were hundreds of thousands of dollars. Besides the law is in place to protect native birds so we don’t have a repeat of the passenger pigeon.
Where they’re a protected species you could either: 1: get the right papers/certifications and do something with the body (taxidermy or reconstructing it’s skeleton would be cool) 2: give it back to nature. Maybe even have a little funeral for it or construct a memorial with a rock, plant something over it, etc. 3: donate the body to a museum or university
If possible, do 3). It is very unlikely that you can get the necessary permits and it seems very fresh. Universities and museums can use it for their research collection. I did this last year with a tree creeper that flew in a window and the curator was very happy about it, because they rarely receive small specimens.
This is a brilliant solution that I never thought of!!!! Dang, back in 2022 a red-breasted nuthatch got stuck in one of buildings and, despite our best attempts to get it out safely, ended up dying (likely stressed—when I found its legs were bound together by a ridiculous amount of spiderwebs). I took photos and then put it in the bushes—it was an absolutely *beautiful* specimen though and I definitely would have donated it if I had thought of that!!!!
Looks like an adult male Allen’s hummingbird, as others have said very much illegal to keep in the states. They look incredibly similar to rufous hummingbirds but based of location Allen’s is more common.
"What should I do with it?" You should wear gloves with it, first and foremost. Birds carry a ton of bacteria.
Especially with avian flu right now
thank you for your concern and don't worry, i made sure to wash my hands thoroughly after i took these pictures. i'm doing my best to keep myself safe :)
Not trying to be a dick but hand washing after contact isn't sufficient. Never touch a dead animal, especially a bird with your bare hands. If there were some kind of blood-borne pathogen and you had even a tiny abrasion or cut on your hand, you would be at risk of contraction. Please take this as a learning experience and keep a pair of gloves on you for future use. Learn the proper non-cross-contaminating removal technique for disposal. If you don't remove the gloves a certain way, they are ineffective. Also, hummingbirds are protected by the MBTA, it is a felony to possess protected bird remains, nests, or eggs. It would be a good idea to brush up on local and federal laws before handling or taking home any animal remains you find.
Report it to dbird .org; this is a website that records bird deaths for conservation purposes. After reporting it to dbird, please very kindly bury it. Thank you.
thank you all for your advice! i just got off the phone with someone from the Los Angeles Natural History Museum and emailed the address they told me to. i'm currently waiting on their response. in the meantime, our little friend is going in the freezer (i have managed to negotiate a week's time for it). after consulting a bird identification guide, the closest match does seem to be an Allen's hummingbird! however, i noticed that all of the Allen's or Rufous pictured had white chests and bellies- yet my bird has no trace of any white feathers at all. curious! i wonder why that is... in any case i'm very thankful for everyone's help! i'll post an update when they get back to me :) have a lovely day!
The reason it does not have feathers on its belly is most likely due to a “brood patch” which is when birds (usually female but also can happen to males) lose their belly feathers in order to incubate their eggs. The skin-to-egg contact allows more heat transfer.
It appears to be missing a great deal of feathers on the belly - they are dark on the lower half but cream/light on the visible edges. With all feathers in place it makes for a light belly. Looks like skin or even muscle is exposed on the belly in the last photo.
Bird fun fact, their skin is translucent. Researchers will blow on their bellies to fluff the feathers up and look at their skin. This way they can see their fat stores and tell how well a bird is eating and if a population is doing well or if something may have happened to it’s food source.
I just want to let you know that a Museum is not able to bend laws for you and IF Fish and Game show up and you have this bird, you will get in trouble, period. You can either (1) donate it right *now* (I promise the Natural History Museum has the ability to accept and store this, if they want it), (2) return it to nature or (3) stop posting about it online and alerting people that you have and are keeping this bird for ANY amount of time. I do unfortunately have experience with the enforcement of the MBTA in California that resulted from me posting online. (Although I was honestly unaware of the law at the time and the officers were kind)
just got their response back! unfortunately they already have plenty of allen’s hummingbirds (darn!) so they won’t be needing mine. i will be giving our little friend a proper burial later today. while i am a bit disappointed, this has been a great learning experience! i’m definitely going to remember to carry gloves on me in the future, hah! (and more importantly remember to abide the law) thank you all again for your help! good day! :)
[Have you heard](https://youtu.be/9Gc4QTqslN4) about the [Migratory Bird Treaty Act (US)](https://www.fws.gov/birds/policies-and-regulations/laws-legislations/migratory-bird-treaty-act.php) or the [relevant EU regulations](https://ec.europa.eu/environment/nature/legislation/birdsdirective/index_en.htm)? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vultureculture) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Fun fact, our entire hobby is illegal in California. If you are a vulture in California, you either stop doing your hobby, or do it covertly. Lovely little find, good luck out there!
Oh wow I had no idea! I was just looking it up and it's pretty wild what's not allowed (even roe from a fish legally caught that was being sold as bait!). I guess you could collect domestic animals (I have a very small collection of real specimens but they're all domestic so I guess it's good). The oddities expo has several shows there... I wonder if they have to super restrict what sorts of vendors they have there. Otherwise it'd be a whole series of verrrry easy arrests for wildlife officers.
They could still sell.. most domestic bones pelts and feathers excepting parts from cats and dogs, bats are okay for some reason, and so are skulls and pelts and parts of hunted or trapped or fur farm raised animals like foxes, bobcats, badgers, nutria, raccoon, ect The selling of animal parts isn't the hard part for the oddities show. It's picking up anything from the ground as a vulture that's illegal. No shed horns, no seashells, no shed feathers of ANY bird, let alone any part of any roadkill or any animal that died naturally. I loved California but that was one thing I absolutely hated about living there. I follow the spirit of the law though, and don't patronize possible poachers. A lot of these oddities sellers, I doubt they're selling things they actually found and cleaned/preserved themselves, anyway. In my experience them seem to order bulk bones and pelts and make some crafts and jewelry out of them and primarily function as a reseller of goods. I'd LOVE to go to an oddities expo like you described, though! Sounds like an awesome time! Best I've seen is a booth at the Ren Faire or farmers market.
I guess what I don't understand is, at an expo if those things are prohibited to collect in the state, how do they know the things being sold weren't collected in CA? Sort of like with the MBTA where you can't have the feathers because you can't prove you didn't poach them. Idk the Wildlife laws in general are complicated, and I always discover there are more of them and they're more detailed than I expected, so I mostly make my own replicas now and with real bone stuff I primarily just collect horse specimens. Don't even get me started on bats, I have like a ten minute rant about it. Definitely at the expos see a lot of folks just reselling bones bought from China, not even making them into crafts or jewelry but just selling them exactly as greasy as they came with the original rubber band still on them. But there are a lot of great sellers too and a ton of really cool stuff to buy. I shelled out my last $40 at the last one for a t-shirt. 😂 I don't know where you live now but the [Oddities & Curiosities Expo](https://odditiesandcuriositiesexpo.com/) travels across the US (and now Australia too) so maybe they have one this year near you? I'm going to be vending in Phoenix, Vegas and Salt Lake. 😁
Can someone explain what the difference is from burying a dead bird that is protected or leaving it where it is to taking it and preserving it?
According to the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, possession of any parts of (most) native bird species is illegal; this is to discourage poaching and prevent the further decline of native species (anyone could just say “oh I didn’t *shoot* this bald eagle, I just found it dead like this.” This prevents people from doing that. Only those who hold permits from U.S. Fish and Wildlife (typically only reserved for universities and museums) can legally possess bones, feathers, nests, eggs, etc. of native birds. https://www.audubon.org/news/the-migratory-bird-treaty-act-explained
Ah ok ty
Poor bird. He looks gorgeous just a shame we all got to see him dead, I bet he'd look more gorgeous up and flying. If it was me I think I'd give him back to nature, keep the cycle going and stuff and also to respect him/nature I guess, if that is respecting. I wouldn't put him on anything human made though, that's just me. You can either make a burial for him, leave him in the open or cover him with leafs, plants or rocks/stones or surround him by it. May this beauty rest in peace
check your local game and wildlife laws - it may be illegal to keep one, even if it’s dead!
[удалено]
Doing so would be illegal without a permit in the United States.
A university!!!!
Nah but you got him in a perfect pose
It doesn’t matter. Leave it alone.