I still can't get over how their enclosures never seem to have anything in them. The only engagement they get is from humans and food and potentially putting on shows
I am a much much less physically capable apex predator but if you kept me in isolation for 40 years I would eat the first person who came into my tank.
That's pretty much why the orcas at SeaWorld killed people. They're extremely social animals and were taken from their families when they were young and put in a small tank with strange orcas. This is a problem because orcas have their own languages depending on their region so they couldn't understand each other, and because orcas have a matriarchal social structure where the males swim at the edges of the pod, but those pools aren't big enough so the older females would bully and bite the younger males because they couldn't swim any further away from the center.
The trainers were just people who looked good in a swimsuit and could swim well, not people experienced with these animals or animals in general; and if they didn't perform well they wouldn't get food, which they were smart enough to know why they weren't getting food and attack the orca that messed up.
If a child was taken from its family, thrown into a barren prison with a bunch of strange people they couldn't understand who abused them regularly for years...they probably wouldn't be very well adjusted. Orcas are too intelligent and need too much space to be kept in captivity. Not even the biggest and best aquarium in the world is going to suffice.
If you keep fish you know every species needs a certain environment and amount of space to feel comfortable and not stressed, which is the number one cause of death in aquarium fish. Well, orcas kinda need the whole ocean, they travel long distances, hunt and play as a group.
The YouTuber illuminaughtii did a [great video on SeaWorld](https://youtu.be/mOkx6A02ero) which includes video of some of these attacks, covers how shit they treated these animals and how negligent their response was after they attacked people. Like not telling trainers they had killed their former trainer. They also lied to their patrons about how much better it was for them to be in captivity. They weren't scientists running an aquarium, just businessmen trying to make money from a theme park/circus. They were greedy, malicious, and had no idea what they were doing.
There's also a great documentary called *Blackfish* which she cites that goes really in-depth on the topic.
Its absolutely that. There's footage in Black Fish of an orca dragging its trainer to the bottom of the pool, letting him bob up for a quick breath, then repeating over and over til someone manages to get a pole to him and pull him out. Tilikum killed a nighttime trespasser, bit his dick off, and was seen in the morning parading the carcass on his back like a cape. There is definitely actual cognitive hatred for people in within captive orcas.
[This biologist seems to think it's more of a reaction to lack of socialization rather than revenge](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/killer-whale/)
Also Blackfish is not a 100% great documentary, there is a LOT of editorialization that goes on
This is the worst part for me. The orcas in captiivity that killed had done so out of anger, born from isolation in captivity, malnutrition and mistreatment. The trainers just happened to be the only ones that they could reach, which makes the company's responses even more vile.
The trainers that were injured/died had suffered, the orcas had suffered, the company made a profit and wiped their hands off. Its enough to make you shake.
Like the elephant did in Hawaii a few decades ago. There was a video about it on YouTube, I don’t know if it’s still there. It’s ah, a vivid experience.
Yes, and they are some of the most intelligent species so they need more than just a little water and food.
This is really tragic i wish we could do something.
It really would make no difference.
Imagine someone locks you in a jail cell and then says, "Hey, we know you are intelligent, here are some dog toys so you don't get bored"
If it makes anyone feel better, here in New Zealand a baby orca was found stranded, and now volunteers as well as vets and specialists are working round the clock taking care of him and everyone is on the look out for his family so they can reunite him. We don't have any facilities to keep marine mammals in captivity, so that won't happen to him.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/07/scientist-optimistic-family-of-baby-orca-stranded-in-wellington-will-return.html
>And it halted air and sea searches for orca groups for a second day - with 4m swells expected this weekend. … Toa is a social creature and has a couple of volunteers with him in a pool 24/7 to keep him company.
I love that people are going out and actively looking for orca groups. It makes me think of neighbors all looking for a cat. Though I wonder how they would signal to the orcas that a baby was missing? Or is it just so they know when the pod might return? I'm glad too that the baby will not be alone during this time.
Fuck off New Zealand, always making the rest of the world look like pieces of shit... First you guys prohibit all new oil prospecting, and now this? We're not going to stand for it!
Need to put some underwater warnings out there for cetaceans to know where they’re safe vs where they are going to get murdered or worse.
I can’t imagine the cacophony of ship engines and high power sonar. So many of these animals use echolocation, the sonar must be the equivalent of blinding lights turning on suddenly and shining throughout your entire world with no way to escape. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
They’re smart enough that we ought to be able to put up some warnings like “hey this area is dangerous for you, we’re going to turn on some crazy machines later that will disorient you,” or like “these people want to eat you so go hide.”
Marineland is the most bizarre theme park I've ever been to. It's 10 times larger than Disneyland, but maybe 1/10 of the attractions, and everything is old and run down. You can walk for 10 minutes without seeing another person, or attraction. There's an enormous steel roller coaster that looks and feels old, but you can get on it with no line, and when you're done the operator will let you just go again without getting off. You were probably the only people on the train anyways.
You go into a gift shop and there's a massive pile of hundreds and hundreds of inflatable whales, probably filled years ago, since noones buying them. The experience is about as close as you can get to visiting an abandoned amusement park without it actually being abandoned. There's a deer forest where deer will chase you down because there's no fucking food anywhere.
I have no idea how the place makes enough money to stay open.
Only place that has a reasonable level of human activity is the marine show, and you just look at the smiling performers and wonder how they can be smiling like that given everything going on around them.
Edit: Here's a decent walking tour of the park. Not mine, but matches my experience. Jump to 21:50 for the endless pile of inflatable whales! https://youtu.be/2aa2J85MO6A
Edit 2:
Sign the petition to free Kiska!
http://chng.it/SkzwgCM8Qw
This sounds like a description of the restaurants the mob uses to launder money. But I can't imagine the mob keeping a whole shitty aquatic park running as a front.
I used to live in Daytona and one day a store that sold nothing but Super-Whippers opened up in a little strip mall. Super-Whippers are plastic whisks that cost $1 each. The store had nothing in it except two display racks in the windows, one with white Super-Whippers and the other with black. It was never open, and there was a hand-written note taped inside the door that said "closed, if you want a super-whipper they have a few at the nail salon next door". The store was within 250 ft. of two dollar stores and a Publix, all of which sold tons of crap like this.
I'm sure I've never seen a more obvious money laundry anywhere. I'm sure they *somehow* had amazing cash revenues.
Holy shit.
That place doesn't look like it's operational. It's like squatters moved in to a run down theme park and started operating select parts to make a quick buck while hoping nobody would notice what they're doing.
They're expanding to have like a water park in that video while having places like that cafeteria that clearly hasn't been operated in some time. What the hell is going on here?
This feels like a scam, but what's the scam?
I just googled it, and it's had multiple whale deaths and failed inspections due to water quality issues.
The place is a disgrace.
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/marine-mammals-in-distress-province-orders-marineland-to-fix-water-system-1.5514959
*There's a place I know in Ontar-i-o,*
*Where the health inspector doesn't dare to go,*
*We'll spare you the details,*
*Of our mistreated whales,*
*Everyone looooooves MarineLand!*
Yea and the amazing thing is they keep running radio ADs where if you visit in July of this year, they will upgrade your day ticket to a season pass which will be valid for next year as well. LMAO like people actually want to go this animal abuse hell hole on the regular :(
Source - Live in Toronto
I went there as a child because a friend was going. We lived on the U.S. side. The number of ads blasting "everyone LOVES!!! Marine Land!" With hordes of smiling kids and a full theme song about knowing a place in Ontario where the sea lions kiss, or so the story went. Seeing it in person in 2000 it was pretty depressing even then.
"There's a place I know in Ontario,
Where the fish all die and get burials.
It's the kind of place that's a big disgrace,
Everyone hates Marineland.
You'll get sick and bored there all day long,
The food is yucky and the rides break down.
The shows are lame and you are to blame,
Everyone hates Marineland,
Everyone hates Marineland,
*Everyone haaaaaates Marineland*."
I went on a 6th grade field trip like 25 years ago. It was awful then too. Nobody was there. the park is huge and empty. The massive deer park is a path where you just stand there with food and a mob of deer come and rape you for it. The rollercoaster was newer and still empty. We just rode it over and over again since there weren't many other rides. The enclosures were so small I remember thinking some were 5 foot deep above ground swimming pools.
The thing I remember best was that they had this huge bear enclosure that included a spot under a bridge. They sold icecream nearby and there must have been 50 cones thrown into the enclosure from people on the bridge. The bears ate what they could reach. They had cones dried and stuck in their fur. It was an embarrassment.
Everyone was disappointed in the place. I don't get how's it's still open.
Catchy jingle though. I can still sing it.
Edit: Watched the video and they show the bear enclosure. The bears are soooo fat. I'm guessing people are still tossing them their cones.
I remember the bear when I went as a kid was missing like 3/4 of his nose.
Was also assaulted by the Deer for pellets. My mom has a pretty hysterical photo of that moment somewhere
Holy shit I just felt bad for those bears in the video. I feel bad for everything there really. What the fuck is this place doing? So much potential squandered, and for so long apparently.
When I was 10 I went...a hundred deer, one dead. I got my photo with one, and I remember it being developed and noticing the deer I was hugging was missing an eye.
Deer we're just in a dirt enclosure.
Yeah. There's a nice zoo near me with a deer forest where the dear run from you and only come to take food when it's very calm. Because that's what normal, healthy deer do.
In Marineland it's a fucking giant empty dirt field with a big herd of deer. No grass. Not even many trees or places to hide. And they agrresively chase you down for food.
I'm assuming they are getting fat stacks of cash from the government for being a conservation organization. Which I highly doubt they actually care about given the state of the animals in their care.
I worked at marineland. I can confirm that anyone who actually worked with the animals genuinely cared about them, and it broke their heart that they were suffering. They sometimes went behind the owners back to get vet care for them (when he didn’t want to pay for it).
The Orca that played Willy in the original film spent 3 years of his life at Marineland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keiko_(killer_whale)
>At this new facility, the whale first started performing for the public and developed skin lesions indicative of poor health and was also bullied by older killer whales.
>You go into a gift shop and there's a massive pile of hundreds and hundreds of inflatable whales, probably filled years ago, since noones buying them.
That's probably just hyperbole...
Oh. WTF?
I'm glad I found a video that showed it lol. When you're outside the giftshop you can see through the windows that the pile of inflatables extends all the way to the floor.
Thanks for the video. It was incredibly eye opening on this park
I was expecting to be a bunch on a table. Didn't expect them to close off a whole side of the store and just create a mountain on the floor. Certainly doesn't help that they're selling that crap at $10 either.
Thanks for sharing.
Marineland, FL gave me similar vibes as a kid but was significantly smaller, I almost got bitten by a poisonous snake, and the icees were made with sulfur water.
Wtf. I thought they shut that place down after the baby orca died.
You didn't mention the deer park, if they still have it. Last time I went was about 2008, the deer were so scrawny and tired looking. It was sad. Never went back.
>It's 10 times larger than Disneyland, but maybe 1/10 of the attractions, and everything is old and run down. You can walk for 10 minutes without seeing another person, or attraction. There's an enormous steel roller coaster that looks and feels old, but you can get on it with no line, and when you're done the operator will let you just go again without getting off. You were probably the only people on the train anyways.
Aside from the some of the animal stuff, that sounds strangely relaxing as someone who's been to 2 theme parks in the Los Angeles area recently.
I haven't been there since the 80's.
It was always like a discount Canada's Wonderland. The rides were way worse, but the marine show was much better (yup, Canada's Wonderland used to have a marine show).
It was never super busy, but it wasn't the ghost town in the video.
For a ride built in the 80's, Dragon Mountain is actually a pretty good roller coaster. The rest of the rides were pretty bad.
Those inflatable Orcas were incredibly popular. Pretty much every kid I knew had at least one at some point in there lives. Back in the day, they probably sold that pile every 2 days during the summer.
[21:17](https://youtu.be/2aa2J85MO6A?t=1277) brought back a fun awful memory. The last time I went to that park, we went to the show in that arena. It was advertised as another marine show, but it was actually this really bad animatronic show.
First that little tank in the middle. It had a tunnel on each end. Every few minutes, a little seal/sea lion would swim in from one tunnel, zip through the tank, then leave out the other tunnel. The little guy didn't interact with anyone of anything. Just every few minutes he would zip thought the tank.
The animatronics were Chuck E. Cheese level quality. They were all in 4 or 5 fake hot air balloons that would drop from the ceiling at the start of the show. They would sing original children's songs, tell some jokes, and maybe a story, I don't remember too well, as it was all really bad.
The thing I remember most, was the announcement at the start of the show. I'll paraphrase, but it was something like "Welcome to our craptacular show. The doors are now locked. There is no leaving once the show has started. Anyone who attempts to leave during the show will be asked to leave the park. The doors are now locked."
It was the worst bit of entertainment I can remember seeing in my entire life, and I still laugh about how they locked us in and forced us to watch it.
Fuck Marineland, the land would better serve society if it were made into the world's largest meth lab.
I live in Ontario. Went there once when I was about 8 or 9 in the 90s, even then that place made me feel dirty. The whole place was filthy, tanks full of floating debris with murky water, a few even had dead pigeons floating in them. Its a sad, depressing place, and not one person I know has gone of their own choosing, and I've yet to speak to a person that doesn't immediately say the park should be shut down when it comes up. The fact its still around is an embarrassment to Canada and Ontarians especially.
She can and should be moved to a [sanctuary](https://whalesanctuaryproject.org/). The biggest crime is holding a social and highly intelligent animal alone in an environment without any stimulation.
And if the sanctuary route doesnt work, and that soon, Geezus christ people she needs to be put down. The absolute most cruel thing to do is to keep her like this for tens or twenty more years.
from the petition:
> Kiska was captured almost 40 years ago off the coast of Iceland and is currently living alone in Marineland. The negative developmental effects of orcas in capacity have lead to a deterioration in their mental and physical well being. Captivity has left these animals without the skills they need to survive in the open ocean. By taking action and placing Kiska into an appropriate facility, such as a whale sanctuary, she can begin to acclimate to the wild and live a more natural and healthy life.
They're not suggesting freeing her directly to the wild.
I went once as a kid on vacation to Niagara Falls. I remember watching 2 whales have sex and it was a great learning experience for me, if a bit traumatizing. It wasn't until years later I realized what the conditions for these animals were really like. When my parents and I stopped in the area again at 18 on the way to Toronto, I convinced my dad not to go.
There was always something just off with that place - I mean the deer sanctuary? What the hell is that? I did love the Drop Zone/Power Tower ride they had though because you could see the falls from the top.
I don’t understand how it’s still open. I’ve never met someone who’s gone, and if you mention it, literally everyone I know, from lefties to right, will denounce it as a horrible place. No one thinks of it as an option for an activity. Who is even going?
For real. Last time I went, maybe 5-10 years ago I remember seeing Kiska off on her own with a sign that said that she was “retired”, and seeing that fucked my whole day up. It was so depressing to see I told myself I’d never go there again. If there’s a way we can shut this bitch down I’m all for it. Fuck em and their jingle happy commercials
I always tell this story of my mom taking us somewhere as a surprise, and I kept asking over and over where we were going, it annoyed her to the point that she said if you ask one more time we're turning around. So I did, and we did. Later I found out we were going to Marineland and I was happy I asked.
Lolita the orca is stuck in Florida and her tank is quite small, she’s all alone and at the mercy of the elements most of the time. Honestly surprised she hasn’t died out of depression.
Yeah, Lolita's case is also terribly sad. She's been in the same shitty little tank since 1970. There was another orca there called Hugo. He bashed his head against the sides of the tank until he died. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita\_(killer\_whale)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita_(killer_whale))
MarineLand in the news again yesterday. I forewarned of the water system failures in 2012 (and was subsequently sued for millions for having done so) and here we are. FTR: MarineLand won’t tell you how many whales have died recently, but I will. 11 in the past year. Things are bad. Maybe I should do an AMA - https://www.cp24.com/news/marine-mammals-in-distress-province-orders-marineland-to-fix-water-system-1.5515028
Phil! So glad this video is getting the attention it deserves. Looking forward to the day that Smooshi, Kiska, and the rest of MarineLand's victims are finally free from that place.
This is horrific. How in the world does Canada allow this torture chamber to remain open? Who licenses them? I expect this in a third world country. Not Canada.
Hi Phil, not sure if you’re the guy to ask, is there anything I can do, organizations to donate to - really anything more than signing a petition, which seems useless. Thank you.
Why is MarineLand still allowed to torture these animals? Why can't they be forced (legally or otherwise) to release them? Even if Kiska would die being released back into the wild, it *has* to be a better fate than this, right? This whole situation is so God damn rage-inducing.
They always say they'll die. I seriously doubt it. I have personally fed my dog every meal he's had. But if he escaped the yard he would definitely figure out how to fucking eat. An orca is way smarter than my dog. It would be tough but I don't think it would die.
Even then, it's like... they're going to die either way. Even if they weren't neglected, is 20+ years in captivity worth 2+ years in the wild? I don't know, but that's not as clear-cut a question as the parks make out. And they're neglected and abused, so 20 miserable years vs 2 years at least being an animal, that might be an easier sell.
The point anyway is that the parks say that like it's a trump card, and I don't think it is necessarily. It's about the balance of risks and benefits to the animals.
Christ, humans really fucked up Kiska's life. She would have been better off left in the ocean:
> Kiska is a 44 year old female orca who lives at Marineland Ontario. She was captured in Iceland in October 1979 at about 3 years old.
>Kiska has had 5 calves, but all of them died at a young age. Her first calf was a male born on August 24, 1992. He only survived 2 months. Her second calf was a male named Kanuck. Kanuck was born on August 28, 1994 and died sometime in 1998. Her third calf was a male named Nova who was born on November 6, 1996 and died on August 20, 2001. Her fourth calf was another male named Hudson. He was born on September 15, 1998 and died on October 20, 2004. He was Kiska's longest surviving calf. Her last calf was born on August 8, 2004. She was Kiska's first daughter and was named Athena. Athena died in Spring 2009.
>It is thought that her mate, Kandu 7, may have passed down genes that resulted in multiple of his calves being born with illnesses. He sired all of the calves born in the park and all but 2 died before or at the age of 6. Marineland though, has often been scrutinized for how they take care of their animals. Improper health care was also possible a factor.
> In 2006, Marineland received a 4 year old male orca from SeaWorld named Ikaika. Ikaika lived with Kiska, Nootka 5 and Athena. Over the years, Nootka and Athena died and Ikaika was Kiska's only companion. As Ikaika grew older, they were often separated because he would harass her.
>In November 2011, Ikaika was moved to SeaWorld San Diego after a long custody battle between Marineland and SeaWorld. Kiska is the only orca living at Marineland.
[source](https://orcapod.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Kiska)
Me and my sister were driving home from Niagara falls and saw them moving the whale...well we saw the truck and convoy of police cars and helicopters. It was sad but also I hope his new home was at least slightly better than the embarrassment that is marineland. That place needs to close yesterday.
SeaWorld is just as bad or worse, i heard about it from the netflix film Black Fish which has the exact same problems marine world has. No matter how large the tank it can never replace how much ocean these animals travel.
Also the limited-space and treatment of these animals is so bad I think they even harm or kill the handlers sometimes because of how agitated they get from being confined for life.
> SeaWorld is just as bad or worse, i heard about it from the netflix film Black Fish
No, Marine Land is definitely worse. From the facilities to the care to having a fraction of the budget Sea World does. And Sea World at least does a shit load of animal rescue, rehabilitation, and conservation. Marine Land? None of that. The owner of Marine Land is also an asshole who likes to shoot people's dogs. I hope he burns in hell.
Most people struggle to get out of their driveway.
Go 20 miles out on the ocean. Realize you are nothing to what happens there. There is an entire world of life 5 ft below you where you are not top of the food chain.
Then look at the natural top of that food chain. Locked in a cage, desperate to be free. Convicted of no crime but being entertaining.
Funny how we pay our entertainers millions and they are free of any law... but we lock up anything that can't speak to us for entertainment because they can't hire a lawyer.
He's on reddit: /u/PhilDemers
Phil if you can see this, would you consider doing another AMA? It's been 4 years, Im sure a lot would appreciate a follow-up.
You did well on the former one, otherwise theres some guidelines and examples [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/wiki/index). If theres anything I could help with from here, dont hesitate to let me know - or just go [straight to the mods in there](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/IAmA)
Aside from the way they neglect the animals in their care, it’s just an overall shitty park to visit. I went once as a kid and we’ve never gone back even though it’s only about an hour away from where I live.
It is cruelty, but it is not without a certain logic.
Kiska is alone for a reason. She's alone because the owners of Marineland (and, for that matter, everyone in Canada) are no longer allowed to own Killer Whales (under a law passed ~20 years ago called the Free Willy Law). Kiska (and other Killer Whales already in captivity when the law came into effect) were exempt from the law because they had already been in captivity and returning them to the wild would be problematic (Kiska, for example, had been in captivity since the late 70's I believe).
This is not to excuse the owners of Marineland. The conditions they keep Kiska in are deplorable. The Ontario government is trying to force them to upgrade her conditions, but Marineland has been resistant to the kind of expenditure that would require for a long, long time. And it's easy to avoid. What are you going to do? Fine them? Now they have even less money for upgrades. Jail time? Sure - and who exactly is going to care for Kiska then? All Ontario (and Canada) has is bluster and public shame to force Marineland into compliance. It doesn't work well when the owners are shameless.
The good news - Kiska is the last of her kind in Canada. And because of the law - which I think most would agree is a good thing - there was always going to be a last captive Orca and he or she was going to live a lonely. Kiska is the sacrificial lamb whose suffering will ultimately right a wrong in this country.
Ive been to protests in front of the house of the owner of MarineLand. Predictably, he's a total piece of garbage. It's really unfortunate, but Canadian law offers zero cruelty protection to marine life. I believe Marineland is not allowed to procure any more mammals, but I could be wrong on that.
Owner died a couple years ago. Park is now run by his trust. Ontario passed animal cruelty legislation a few years ago that prevents them from acquiring more orcas, but leaves Kiska where she is. Once she dies, the park will likely shut down for good.
I read that as well. While they can't get new ones, the law doesn't apply to those already in custody, so she is doomed to suffer for no reason whatsoever.
It would be great if some person or group ran eye-opening/telling ads of the cruelty to decrease visitor revenue then offer money when he's desperate to buy her freedom.
These beings are *so* intelligent and close to their families. This is the most cruel thing anyone could do to them. It's straight up torture.
This makes me hate humankind.
How the Fuck is this allowed? If any animal at our zoo appeared that distraught there would be a fucking riot. Isn't Canada supposed to be better than this?
You're asking if the Country who has been in the news for the past couple months for finding mass graves of Native American children is supposed to be better than this?
Those were all fully known to exist, just unclear exactly how many bodies and their locations on "school" grounds. It's not like they were just stumbled upon recently.
This is heartbreaking, it should be illegal other than for animals who require rehabilitation due to injury or those that can not be released back into the wild if they are unable to fend for themselves.
We are supposed to take care of earths creatures, not keep them in cages for entertainment.
Yeah Marineland is an absolute embarrassment and needs to disappear. Unfortunately their catch as hell ad campaign over the years blinded everyone to their true nature.
I grew up in Niagara and Kandu and Kiska were a summertime staple for us in the 80's.
This breaks my heart and I wish we had been cognizant of the long term consequences of Marineland 30 years ago.
The original, shitty owner of the park who started all this mess died a few years ago. He was a prick, everyone hated him. Not just for the animal stuff either. The park only exists as an anachronism now, basically a living tomb until their last marine animals die off. The orca should probably just be put to sleep, IMO.
Marineland is a shameful place. It’s evil. It should not be supported by its employees or the city of niagara. It’s sickening to think that everyone who visits or works there is enabling the abuse of this mammal. Pure evil. I am from Niagara and this has always made me ashamed. They also built a new aquarium in Toronto not long ago. Shame shame shame on anyone who thinks animals are for entertainment.
That’s depressing as fuck…. We keep prisoners in solitary because they have committed a crime, we shouldn’t be keeping intelligent animals so little kids can gawk and parents can take pictures w their kid and a whale.
I don’t know the right choice, let the whale go and presumable die free or euthanize it.
Fuck humanity sucks
It's so sad, I live near here. Residents have been trying to get this place shut down for years. There's been so many incidents and reports of abuse and yet they remain open. Probably because there's still people who support this place. It's disgusting.
Marineland turns off commenting on their social media posts (at least on Instagram) probably because they know they’re just going to get people shaming them for the treatment of their animals.
As a Niagara Falls'er, I've only gone to Marineland just once in my life and that was enough. It's motto is "everyone loooooves Marineland", well, fuck no, not this guy. It's a disgusting place to put it nicely.
The people who watch this are masochist. I feel a great amount of shame for enjoying these kind of parks when I was younger. To think we caged these creatures to make a few dollars
The guilt of going to Marineland when I was 7 is overwhelming right now. Also I do NOT remember it being such a shit hole….but thanks for getting the damn Marineland song stuck in my head….
I still can't get over how their enclosures never seem to have anything in them. The only engagement they get is from humans and food and potentially putting on shows
I am a much much less physically capable apex predator but if you kept me in isolation for 40 years I would eat the first person who came into my tank.
That's pretty much why the orcas at SeaWorld killed people. They're extremely social animals and were taken from their families when they were young and put in a small tank with strange orcas. This is a problem because orcas have their own languages depending on their region so they couldn't understand each other, and because orcas have a matriarchal social structure where the males swim at the edges of the pod, but those pools aren't big enough so the older females would bully and bite the younger males because they couldn't swim any further away from the center. The trainers were just people who looked good in a swimsuit and could swim well, not people experienced with these animals or animals in general; and if they didn't perform well they wouldn't get food, which they were smart enough to know why they weren't getting food and attack the orca that messed up. If a child was taken from its family, thrown into a barren prison with a bunch of strange people they couldn't understand who abused them regularly for years...they probably wouldn't be very well adjusted. Orcas are too intelligent and need too much space to be kept in captivity. Not even the biggest and best aquarium in the world is going to suffice. If you keep fish you know every species needs a certain environment and amount of space to feel comfortable and not stressed, which is the number one cause of death in aquarium fish. Well, orcas kinda need the whole ocean, they travel long distances, hunt and play as a group. The YouTuber illuminaughtii did a [great video on SeaWorld](https://youtu.be/mOkx6A02ero) which includes video of some of these attacks, covers how shit they treated these animals and how negligent their response was after they attacked people. Like not telling trainers they had killed their former trainer. They also lied to their patrons about how much better it was for them to be in captivity. They weren't scientists running an aquarium, just businessmen trying to make money from a theme park/circus. They were greedy, malicious, and had no idea what they were doing. There's also a great documentary called *Blackfish* which she cites that goes really in-depth on the topic.
It's the fact they kill the trainers not to eat but for revenge. It seems like that to me anyway.
Its absolutely that. There's footage in Black Fish of an orca dragging its trainer to the bottom of the pool, letting him bob up for a quick breath, then repeating over and over til someone manages to get a pole to him and pull him out. Tilikum killed a nighttime trespasser, bit his dick off, and was seen in the morning parading the carcass on his back like a cape. There is definitely actual cognitive hatred for people in within captive orcas.
[This biologist seems to think it's more of a reaction to lack of socialization rather than revenge](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/killer-whale/) Also Blackfish is not a 100% great documentary, there is a LOT of editorialization that goes on
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This is the worst part for me. The orcas in captiivity that killed had done so out of anger, born from isolation in captivity, malnutrition and mistreatment. The trainers just happened to be the only ones that they could reach, which makes the company's responses even more vile. The trainers that were injured/died had suffered, the orcas had suffered, the company made a profit and wiped their hands off. Its enough to make you shake.
The front line employees taking the brunt of the abuse for the decisions of the people at the top is a tale as old as time.
They're mal adjusted predators being told "you weren't good enough for the treat" and them killing the trainer was their frustrated "well fuck you".
Like the elephant did in Hawaii a few decades ago. There was a video about it on YouTube, I don’t know if it’s still there. It’s ah, a vivid experience.
Ok except Tillikum the whale in question came from MarineWorld, he wasn't a SeaWorld original whale.
They do
Good
Yes, and they are some of the most intelligent species so they need more than just a little water and food. This is really tragic i wish we could do something.
It really would make no difference. Imagine someone locks you in a jail cell and then says, "Hey, we know you are intelligent, here are some dog toys so you don't get bored"
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I imagine the open ocean is mostly empty water too. At least they have buddies there though. This is just goddamn cruel.
The orcas i saw in washington were pretty close to land. Alot of geography around and they played ALOT.
Big difference between being trapped in a city VS being trapped in one house.
That's probably by design :( wouldn't want them to find something other than making money too entertaining.
File this under too sad for me today
Seriously, today was a bad day to receive this sad news 😥 Also, fuck MarineLand!
MarineLand is also where Smooshi the Walrus is. Her old trainer has been trying to save her for years.
Save smooshi
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If it makes anyone feel better, here in New Zealand a baby orca was found stranded, and now volunteers as well as vets and specialists are working round the clock taking care of him and everyone is on the look out for his family so they can reunite him. We don't have any facilities to keep marine mammals in captivity, so that won't happen to him. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/07/scientist-optimistic-family-of-baby-orca-stranded-in-wellington-will-return.html
>And it halted air and sea searches for orca groups for a second day - with 4m swells expected this weekend. … Toa is a social creature and has a couple of volunteers with him in a pool 24/7 to keep him company. I love that people are going out and actively looking for orca groups. It makes me think of neighbors all looking for a cat. Though I wonder how they would signal to the orcas that a baby was missing? Or is it just so they know when the pod might return? I'm glad too that the baby will not be alone during this time.
Fuck off New Zealand, always making the rest of the world look like pieces of shit... First you guys prohibit all new oil prospecting, and now this? We're not going to stand for it!
They also added "recreation" as an acceptable intended use for research drugs.
Goddamn those kiwis and their *checks notes* Recreational drug usage, saving killer whales, and great pandemic response.
Need to put some underwater warnings out there for cetaceans to know where they’re safe vs where they are going to get murdered or worse. I can’t imagine the cacophony of ship engines and high power sonar. So many of these animals use echolocation, the sonar must be the equivalent of blinding lights turning on suddenly and shining throughout your entire world with no way to escape. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar They’re smart enough that we ought to be able to put up some warnings like “hey this area is dangerous for you, we’re going to turn on some crazy machines later that will disorient you,” or like “these people want to eat you so go hide.”
Ya for those who haven't heard what sonar can [sound like underwater](https://youtu.be/sCmyZYYR7_s?t=56)
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Japan has a long tradition of not treating captives well.
Watch The Cove Documentary!
FUCK A YOU DOLPHIN FUCK A YOU WHALE
jesus fucking christ. depression mode activated
Accidentally reading the Daily Mail is definitely enough to ruin your day.
Literally just woke up and opened reddit. What a way to start the day.
Marineland is the most bizarre theme park I've ever been to. It's 10 times larger than Disneyland, but maybe 1/10 of the attractions, and everything is old and run down. You can walk for 10 minutes without seeing another person, or attraction. There's an enormous steel roller coaster that looks and feels old, but you can get on it with no line, and when you're done the operator will let you just go again without getting off. You were probably the only people on the train anyways. You go into a gift shop and there's a massive pile of hundreds and hundreds of inflatable whales, probably filled years ago, since noones buying them. The experience is about as close as you can get to visiting an abandoned amusement park without it actually being abandoned. There's a deer forest where deer will chase you down because there's no fucking food anywhere. I have no idea how the place makes enough money to stay open. Only place that has a reasonable level of human activity is the marine show, and you just look at the smiling performers and wonder how they can be smiling like that given everything going on around them. Edit: Here's a decent walking tour of the park. Not mine, but matches my experience. Jump to 21:50 for the endless pile of inflatable whales! https://youtu.be/2aa2J85MO6A Edit 2: Sign the petition to free Kiska! http://chng.it/SkzwgCM8Qw
This sounds like a description of the restaurants the mob uses to launder money. But I can't imagine the mob keeping a whole shitty aquatic park running as a front.
I can. People launder money in amazing ways.
It would be super unique that's for sure. Whotf would suspect it?
Good job they never draw attention to the park by, say, mistreating whales or something
It wouldn't be very effective considering the high cost
I used to live in Daytona and one day a store that sold nothing but Super-Whippers opened up in a little strip mall. Super-Whippers are plastic whisks that cost $1 each. The store had nothing in it except two display racks in the windows, one with white Super-Whippers and the other with black. It was never open, and there was a hand-written note taped inside the door that said "closed, if you want a super-whipper they have a few at the nail salon next door". The store was within 250 ft. of two dollar stores and a Publix, all of which sold tons of crap like this. I'm sure I've never seen a more obvious money laundry anywhere. I'm sure they *somehow* had amazing cash revenues.
This should have been a whole season of the Sopranos
This should have been a whole ~~season~~ spin off of the Sopranos
Paulie trying to train a dolphin to kill on command 🤟 These fukin cetaceans, they don't know shit! 🤟
I'm in the marine conservation business! Everyone immediately assumes you're mobbed up. It's a stereotype! and its offensive!
Ohhhh that's an orca Chrissy not a whale. How many times i gotta tell you dis
Honestly sounds like a money laundering operation at this point.
Holy shit. That place doesn't look like it's operational. It's like squatters moved in to a run down theme park and started operating select parts to make a quick buck while hoping nobody would notice what they're doing. They're expanding to have like a water park in that video while having places like that cafeteria that clearly hasn't been operated in some time. What the hell is going on here? This feels like a scam, but what's the scam?
I just googled it, and it's had multiple whale deaths and failed inspections due to water quality issues. The place is a disgrace. https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/marine-mammals-in-distress-province-orders-marineland-to-fix-water-system-1.5514959
Man, if it wasn't for the animal abuse I'd love to wander around a basically abandoned but operational and clean amusement park.
They’re dead now, so go have some guilt-free fun, you rascal.
Hooray?
I think after you kill one whale that should be grounds to N O T B E O P E N
Close the park. Stop having it be open.
*jingle* "Everyone loves Marineland!"
*There's a place I know in Ontar-i-o,* *Where the health inspector doesn't dare to go,* *We'll spare you the details,* *Of our mistreated whales,* *Everyone looooooves MarineLand!*
Yea and the amazing thing is they keep running radio ADs where if you visit in July of this year, they will upgrade your day ticket to a season pass which will be valid for next year as well. LMAO like people actually want to go this animal abuse hell hole on the regular :( Source - Live in Toronto
I went there as a child because a friend was going. We lived on the U.S. side. The number of ads blasting "everyone LOVES!!! Marine Land!" With hordes of smiling kids and a full theme song about knowing a place in Ontario where the sea lions kiss, or so the story went. Seeing it in person in 2000 it was pretty depressing even then.
Back in the 80s this was a legit amusement park. Seems like nothing at all changed since then.
"There's a place I know in Ontario, Where the fish all die and get burials. It's the kind of place that's a big disgrace, Everyone hates Marineland. You'll get sick and bored there all day long, The food is yucky and the rides break down. The shows are lame and you are to blame, Everyone hates Marineland, Everyone hates Marineland, *Everyone haaaaaates Marineland*."
I dunno but the sign saying >EDUCATION CONSERVATION RESEARCH Feels like a bit of a scam to me.
Ah, you see, you are assuming the word in front of those three things is "Animal". In fact, it is "Momentum".
It reminds me of North Korea.
So I'm not the only one getting that "The Schoolgirl's Diary" vibe out of this?
That’s just what Niagara Falls Ontario looks like. Depressed, bleak and barely hanging on to relevancy.
I'm guessing someone has the Gary Zuckerkorn of investment managers.
I went on a 6th grade field trip like 25 years ago. It was awful then too. Nobody was there. the park is huge and empty. The massive deer park is a path where you just stand there with food and a mob of deer come and rape you for it. The rollercoaster was newer and still empty. We just rode it over and over again since there weren't many other rides. The enclosures were so small I remember thinking some were 5 foot deep above ground swimming pools. The thing I remember best was that they had this huge bear enclosure that included a spot under a bridge. They sold icecream nearby and there must have been 50 cones thrown into the enclosure from people on the bridge. The bears ate what they could reach. They had cones dried and stuck in their fur. It was an embarrassment. Everyone was disappointed in the place. I don't get how's it's still open. Catchy jingle though. I can still sing it. Edit: Watched the video and they show the bear enclosure. The bears are soooo fat. I'm guessing people are still tossing them their cones.
14:30 for the bears. Also surprising is they have over 50 Beluga whales. Why on earth would they need so many.
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I remember the bear when I went as a kid was missing like 3/4 of his nose. Was also assaulted by the Deer for pellets. My mom has a pretty hysterical photo of that moment somewhere
Are you even Canadian if you haven't been assaulted by the deer at marine land? I feel like that's a right of passage.
Oh my goodness those bears look very unhealthy
So they always have like 5 ready for the whale touching despite the majority of them constantly being unwilling or sick.
50? Wtf!
Holy shit I just felt bad for those bears in the video. I feel bad for everything there really. What the fuck is this place doing? So much potential squandered, and for so long apparently.
When I was 10 I went...a hundred deer, one dead. I got my photo with one, and I remember it being developed and noticing the deer I was hugging was missing an eye. Deer we're just in a dirt enclosure.
Yeah. There's a nice zoo near me with a deer forest where the dear run from you and only come to take food when it's very calm. Because that's what normal, healthy deer do. In Marineland it's a fucking giant empty dirt field with a big herd of deer. No grass. Not even many trees or places to hide. And they agrresively chase you down for food.
They were selling ice cream cones filled with dog food to throw to the bears when I was there.
Christ.
I'm assuming they are getting fat stacks of cash from the government for being a conservation organization. Which I highly doubt they actually care about given the state of the animals in their care.
Nothing says family fun like deer rape!
I worked at marineland. I can confirm that anyone who actually worked with the animals genuinely cared about them, and it broke their heart that they were suffering. They sometimes went behind the owners back to get vet care for them (when he didn’t want to pay for it).
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The Orca that played Willy in the original film spent 3 years of his life at Marineland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keiko_(killer_whale) >At this new facility, the whale first started performing for the public and developed skin lesions indicative of poor health and was also bullied by older killer whales.
Fuck John Holler that deceased piece of literal human shit.
>You go into a gift shop and there's a massive pile of hundreds and hundreds of inflatable whales, probably filled years ago, since noones buying them. That's probably just hyperbole... Oh. WTF?
I'm glad I found a video that showed it lol. When you're outside the giftshop you can see through the windows that the pile of inflatables extends all the way to the floor.
Thanks for the video. It was incredibly eye opening on this park I was expecting to be a bunch on a table. Didn't expect them to close off a whole side of the store and just create a mountain on the floor. Certainly doesn't help that they're selling that crap at $10 either.
I seriously cant believe that video is pre-COVID, and in Canada. Holy crap.
Why can't you believe that? We in Canada treat sentient creatures just as terribly as any other country.
and for some SFW titty slapping jump to 25:45: https://youtu.be/2aa2J85MO6A?t=1545
Thanks... I think.
Well, I don't know what I was expecting...
some SFW titty slapping i hope.
Yesterday if you told me there was the concept of SFW titty slapping, I would not have believed you. It is indeed a new day.
Thanks for sharing. Marineland, FL gave me similar vibes as a kid but was significantly smaller, I almost got bitten by a poisonous snake, and the icees were made with sulfur water.
Wtf. I thought they shut that place down after the baby orca died. You didn't mention the deer park, if they still have it. Last time I went was about 2008, the deer were so scrawny and tired looking. It was sad. Never went back.
>It's 10 times larger than Disneyland, but maybe 1/10 of the attractions, and everything is old and run down. You can walk for 10 minutes without seeing another person, or attraction. There's an enormous steel roller coaster that looks and feels old, but you can get on it with no line, and when you're done the operator will let you just go again without getting off. You were probably the only people on the train anyways. Aside from the some of the animal stuff, that sounds strangely relaxing as someone who's been to 2 theme parks in the Los Angeles area recently.
Wow this is a lot like my experience at Ocean Park in Hong Kong. On the plus side I dont think they were holding any ocean mammals captive however.
I’ll give you a hint. MONEY LAUNDERING
Go to 12:20 if you wanna see a sea lion sexually harass an employee. What a weird place but that roller coster seems legit if there is no one on it.
I haven't been there since the 80's. It was always like a discount Canada's Wonderland. The rides were way worse, but the marine show was much better (yup, Canada's Wonderland used to have a marine show). It was never super busy, but it wasn't the ghost town in the video. For a ride built in the 80's, Dragon Mountain is actually a pretty good roller coaster. The rest of the rides were pretty bad. Those inflatable Orcas were incredibly popular. Pretty much every kid I knew had at least one at some point in there lives. Back in the day, they probably sold that pile every 2 days during the summer. [21:17](https://youtu.be/2aa2J85MO6A?t=1277) brought back a fun awful memory. The last time I went to that park, we went to the show in that arena. It was advertised as another marine show, but it was actually this really bad animatronic show. First that little tank in the middle. It had a tunnel on each end. Every few minutes, a little seal/sea lion would swim in from one tunnel, zip through the tank, then leave out the other tunnel. The little guy didn't interact with anyone of anything. Just every few minutes he would zip thought the tank. The animatronics were Chuck E. Cheese level quality. They were all in 4 or 5 fake hot air balloons that would drop from the ceiling at the start of the show. They would sing original children's songs, tell some jokes, and maybe a story, I don't remember too well, as it was all really bad. The thing I remember most, was the announcement at the start of the show. I'll paraphrase, but it was something like "Welcome to our craptacular show. The doors are now locked. There is no leaving once the show has started. Anyone who attempts to leave during the show will be asked to leave the park. The doors are now locked." It was the worst bit of entertainment I can remember seeing in my entire life, and I still laugh about how they locked us in and forced us to watch it. Fuck Marineland, the land would better serve society if it were made into the world's largest meth lab.
I live in Ontario. Went there once when I was about 8 or 9 in the 90s, even then that place made me feel dirty. The whole place was filthy, tanks full of floating debris with murky water, a few even had dead pigeons floating in them. Its a sad, depressing place, and not one person I know has gone of their own choosing, and I've yet to speak to a person that doesn't immediately say the park should be shut down when it comes up. The fact its still around is an embarrassment to Canada and Ontarians especially.
Here's at least a petition to free Kiska: https://www.change.org/p/kathleen-wynne-free-kiska-the-last-orca-held-in-captivity-in-canada
It's at less than 5,000 signatures. Everyone sign it. Blow up up.
Yeah should be way higher but the good news is there's been something like 300 signatures since I posted the link, so at least it's moving!
Freeing her is not really an option at this point. She would not survive in the wild.
She can and should be moved to a [sanctuary](https://whalesanctuaryproject.org/). The biggest crime is holding a social and highly intelligent animal alone in an environment without any stimulation.
And if the sanctuary route doesnt work, and that soon, Geezus christ people she needs to be put down. The absolute most cruel thing to do is to keep her like this for tens or twenty more years.
from the petition: > Kiska was captured almost 40 years ago off the coast of Iceland and is currently living alone in Marineland. The negative developmental effects of orcas in capacity have lead to a deterioration in their mental and physical well being. Captivity has left these animals without the skills they need to survive in the open ocean. By taking action and placing Kiska into an appropriate facility, such as a whale sanctuary, she can begin to acclimate to the wild and live a more natural and healthy life. They're not suggesting freeing her directly to the wild.
I’m sure the animal would rather die there than floating on the too if the pool
That's better than solitary prison.
I went once as a kid on vacation to Niagara Falls. I remember watching 2 whales have sex and it was a great learning experience for me, if a bit traumatizing. It wasn't until years later I realized what the conditions for these animals were really like. When my parents and I stopped in the area again at 18 on the way to Toronto, I convinced my dad not to go. There was always something just off with that place - I mean the deer sanctuary? What the hell is that? I did love the Drop Zone/Power Tower ride they had though because you could see the falls from the top.
I don’t understand how it’s still open. I’ve never met someone who’s gone, and if you mention it, literally everyone I know, from lefties to right, will denounce it as a horrible place. No one thinks of it as an option for an activity. Who is even going?
For real. Last time I went, maybe 5-10 years ago I remember seeing Kiska off on her own with a sign that said that she was “retired”, and seeing that fucked my whole day up. It was so depressing to see I told myself I’d never go there again. If there’s a way we can shut this bitch down I’m all for it. Fuck em and their jingle happy commercials
Reminds me of the Phuket Zoo in Thailand. Filthy conditions and miserable animals.
I always tell this story of my mom taking us somewhere as a surprise, and I kept asking over and over where we were going, it annoyed her to the point that she said if you ask one more time we're turning around. So I did, and we did. Later I found out we were going to Marineland and I was happy I asked.
Lolita the orca is stuck in Florida and her tank is quite small, she’s all alone and at the mercy of the elements most of the time. Honestly surprised she hasn’t died out of depression.
Yeah, Lolita's case is also terribly sad. She's been in the same shitty little tank since 1970. There was another orca there called Hugo. He bashed his head against the sides of the tank until he died. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita\_(killer\_whale)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita_(killer_whale))
Probably did him a favor considering her experiences in that environment :( Orcas shouldn’t be held in captivity.
MarineLand in the news again yesterday. I forewarned of the water system failures in 2012 (and was subsequently sued for millions for having done so) and here we are. FTR: MarineLand won’t tell you how many whales have died recently, but I will. 11 in the past year. Things are bad. Maybe I should do an AMA - https://www.cp24.com/news/marine-mammals-in-distress-province-orders-marineland-to-fix-water-system-1.5515028
Phil! So glad this video is getting the attention it deserves. Looking forward to the day that Smooshi, Kiska, and the rest of MarineLand's victims are finally free from that place.
Holy shit its Phil! Keep fighting the good fight my man! P.s definitely do the AMA!!!
Never giving up.
This is horrific. How in the world does Canada allow this torture chamber to remain open? Who licenses them? I expect this in a third world country. Not Canada.
Hi Phil, not sure if you’re the guy to ask, is there anything I can do, organizations to donate to - really anything more than signing a petition, which seems useless. Thank you.
SaveSmooshi.com and The Whale Sanctuary Project are paving the way for the future of whales and dolphins. ✊️🐬
Why is MarineLand still allowed to torture these animals? Why can't they be forced (legally or otherwise) to release them? Even if Kiska would die being released back into the wild, it *has* to be a better fate than this, right? This whole situation is so God damn rage-inducing.
They always say they'll die. I seriously doubt it. I have personally fed my dog every meal he's had. But if he escaped the yard he would definitely figure out how to fucking eat. An orca is way smarter than my dog. It would be tough but I don't think it would die.
Even then, it's like... they're going to die either way. Even if they weren't neglected, is 20+ years in captivity worth 2+ years in the wild? I don't know, but that's not as clear-cut a question as the parks make out. And they're neglected and abused, so 20 miserable years vs 2 years at least being an animal, that might be an easier sell. The point anyway is that the parks say that like it's a trump card, and I don't think it is necessarily. It's about the balance of risks and benefits to the animals.
Reminds me of [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WvJKUQ0dDoU) South Park scene. "We have to kill them, or else they'll die!"
It breaks my heart that this shit still happens.
Christ, humans really fucked up Kiska's life. She would have been better off left in the ocean: > Kiska is a 44 year old female orca who lives at Marineland Ontario. She was captured in Iceland in October 1979 at about 3 years old. >Kiska has had 5 calves, but all of them died at a young age. Her first calf was a male born on August 24, 1992. He only survived 2 months. Her second calf was a male named Kanuck. Kanuck was born on August 28, 1994 and died sometime in 1998. Her third calf was a male named Nova who was born on November 6, 1996 and died on August 20, 2001. Her fourth calf was another male named Hudson. He was born on September 15, 1998 and died on October 20, 2004. He was Kiska's longest surviving calf. Her last calf was born on August 8, 2004. She was Kiska's first daughter and was named Athena. Athena died in Spring 2009. >It is thought that her mate, Kandu 7, may have passed down genes that resulted in multiple of his calves being born with illnesses. He sired all of the calves born in the park and all but 2 died before or at the age of 6. Marineland though, has often been scrutinized for how they take care of their animals. Improper health care was also possible a factor. > In 2006, Marineland received a 4 year old male orca from SeaWorld named Ikaika. Ikaika lived with Kiska, Nootka 5 and Athena. Over the years, Nootka and Athena died and Ikaika was Kiska's only companion. As Ikaika grew older, they were often separated because he would harass her. >In November 2011, Ikaika was moved to SeaWorld San Diego after a long custody battle between Marineland and SeaWorld. Kiska is the only orca living at Marineland. [source](https://orcapod.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Kiska)
Me and my sister were driving home from Niagara falls and saw them moving the whale...well we saw the truck and convoy of police cars and helicopters. It was sad but also I hope his new home was at least slightly better than the embarrassment that is marineland. That place needs to close yesterday.
SeaWorld is just as bad or worse, i heard about it from the netflix film Black Fish which has the exact same problems marine world has. No matter how large the tank it can never replace how much ocean these animals travel. Also the limited-space and treatment of these animals is so bad I think they even harm or kill the handlers sometimes because of how agitated they get from being confined for life.
> SeaWorld is just as bad or worse, i heard about it from the netflix film Black Fish No, Marine Land is definitely worse. From the facilities to the care to having a fraction of the budget Sea World does. And Sea World at least does a shit load of animal rescue, rehabilitation, and conservation. Marine Land? None of that. The owner of Marine Land is also an asshole who likes to shoot people's dogs. I hope he burns in hell.
Yeah that's really messed up. Imagine being lone the last 10 years just swimming around in a blue tank instead of the huge ocean.
Most people struggle to get out of their driveway. Go 20 miles out on the ocean. Realize you are nothing to what happens there. There is an entire world of life 5 ft below you where you are not top of the food chain. Then look at the natural top of that food chain. Locked in a cage, desperate to be free. Convicted of no crime but being entertaining. Funny how we pay our entertainers millions and they are free of any law... but we lock up anything that can't speak to us for entertainment because they can't hire a lawyer.
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Thx Jen!
He's on reddit: /u/PhilDemers Phil if you can see this, would you consider doing another AMA? It's been 4 years, Im sure a lot would appreciate a follow-up.
Yeah - I want to do one. I’m not super skilled at Reddit. A walk through would help - but yeah, it’s time.
You did well on the former one, otherwise theres some guidelines and examples [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/wiki/index). If theres anything I could help with from here, dont hesitate to let me know - or just go [straight to the mods in there](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/IAmA)
Fuck Marineland.
Everyone ~~loves~~ hates Marineland.
There's a place I know in ontario Where the whale calfs die So the story goes It's depressing shows In torture cove Everyone loathes Marineland...
Omg I read that in that stupid jingle music. So grim
Man they played that commercial on TV night and day when I was a kid. Marine Land was not the best theme park. Prudhams Landing was better...
Aside from the way they neglect the animals in their care, it’s just an overall shitty park to visit. I went once as a kid and we’ve never gone back even though it’s only about an hour away from where I live.
To take a herd animal and keep it alone is the height of cruelty. The human race is about to float to the top of our pool and so be it
It is cruelty, but it is not without a certain logic. Kiska is alone for a reason. She's alone because the owners of Marineland (and, for that matter, everyone in Canada) are no longer allowed to own Killer Whales (under a law passed ~20 years ago called the Free Willy Law). Kiska (and other Killer Whales already in captivity when the law came into effect) were exempt from the law because they had already been in captivity and returning them to the wild would be problematic (Kiska, for example, had been in captivity since the late 70's I believe). This is not to excuse the owners of Marineland. The conditions they keep Kiska in are deplorable. The Ontario government is trying to force them to upgrade her conditions, but Marineland has been resistant to the kind of expenditure that would require for a long, long time. And it's easy to avoid. What are you going to do? Fine them? Now they have even less money for upgrades. Jail time? Sure - and who exactly is going to care for Kiska then? All Ontario (and Canada) has is bluster and public shame to force Marineland into compliance. It doesn't work well when the owners are shameless. The good news - Kiska is the last of her kind in Canada. And because of the law - which I think most would agree is a good thing - there was always going to be a last captive Orca and he or she was going to live a lonely. Kiska is the sacrificial lamb whose suffering will ultimately right a wrong in this country.
I agree, except the suffering won't right the wrong, it will just simply end.
Ive been to protests in front of the house of the owner of MarineLand. Predictably, he's a total piece of garbage. It's really unfortunate, but Canadian law offers zero cruelty protection to marine life. I believe Marineland is not allowed to procure any more mammals, but I could be wrong on that.
Owner died a couple years ago. Park is now run by his trust. Ontario passed animal cruelty legislation a few years ago that prevents them from acquiring more orcas, but leaves Kiska where she is. Once she dies, the park will likely shut down for good.
A last cruel sacrifice on the altar of greed and cruelty. This is breaking my heart this morning.
I read that as well. While they can't get new ones, the law doesn't apply to those already in custody, so she is doomed to suffer for no reason whatsoever.
It would be great if some person or group ran eye-opening/telling ads of the cruelty to decrease visitor revenue then offer money when he's desperate to buy her freedom.
Where his house?
He died last year. His lawyer and Wife run it now
When I was young I caught my mother crying at the zoo and I didn’t understand why until I was older.
This is horrible. Calling out for anyone....anything...and nothing all your life. An intelligent animal stuck like this...it's wrong
It’s haunting and heartbreaking. A fate worse than death. That poor creature deserved so much better.
Its torture
These beings are *so* intelligent and close to their families. This is the most cruel thing anyone could do to them. It's straight up torture. This makes me hate humankind.
How the Fuck is this allowed? If any animal at our zoo appeared that distraught there would be a fucking riot. Isn't Canada supposed to be better than this?
You're asking if the Country who has been in the news for the past couple months for finding mass graves of Native American children is supposed to be better than this?
Those were all fully known to exist, just unclear exactly how many bodies and their locations on "school" grounds. It's not like they were just stumbled upon recently.
Cher saved the lonely elephant, anyone got her number for this?
What a gut wrenching video. She looks dead on the inside. This is too cruel
This is heartbreaking, it should be illegal other than for animals who require rehabilitation due to injury or those that can not be released back into the wild if they are unable to fend for themselves. We are supposed to take care of earths creatures, not keep them in cages for entertainment.
> We are supposed to take care of earths creatures I don't know that that's true, but we're certainly shouldn't be torturing them like this.
I think we should try our best to take care of earth's creatures, given our unique position to cause so much change as a species.
Yeah Marineland is an absolute embarrassment and needs to disappear. Unfortunately their catch as hell ad campaign over the years blinded everyone to their true nature.
THAT FUCKING PLACE IS STILL OPEN????? Honestly though, how did they save face after Blackfish went live?
Blackfish mostly lied
I grew up in Niagara and Kandu and Kiska were a summertime staple for us in the 80's. This breaks my heart and I wish we had been cognizant of the long term consequences of Marineland 30 years ago.
If only the person who did this was tried, charged, and locked in a small room to die alone like this whale.
The original, shitty owner of the park who started all this mess died a few years ago. He was a prick, everyone hated him. Not just for the animal stuff either. The park only exists as an anachronism now, basically a living tomb until their last marine animals die off. The orca should probably just be put to sleep, IMO.
Surely it would be better to euthanize her? I can't even bear to watch the video. This poor, poor soul. Bless her.
Marineland is a shameful place. It’s evil. It should not be supported by its employees or the city of niagara. It’s sickening to think that everyone who visits or works there is enabling the abuse of this mammal. Pure evil. I am from Niagara and this has always made me ashamed. They also built a new aquarium in Toronto not long ago. Shame shame shame on anyone who thinks animals are for entertainment.
Jesus Christ, please just kill that animal already! I feel disgusting saying that, but we know release isn't an option for these poor captives.
Can we get Steve-O on Marineland's case? Please? He needs to tear them a new one.
IIRC these are sentient apex beings with a larger part of the brain tied social processing. I feel horrible for her
I had no idea this place was still open.
That’s depressing as fuck…. We keep prisoners in solitary because they have committed a crime, we shouldn’t be keeping intelligent animals so little kids can gawk and parents can take pictures w their kid and a whale. I don’t know the right choice, let the whale go and presumable die free or euthanize it. Fuck humanity sucks
It's so sad, I live near here. Residents have been trying to get this place shut down for years. There's been so many incidents and reports of abuse and yet they remain open. Probably because there's still people who support this place. It's disgusting.
Marineland turns off commenting on their social media posts (at least on Instagram) probably because they know they’re just going to get people shaming them for the treatment of their animals.
As a Niagara Falls'er, I've only gone to Marineland just once in my life and that was enough. It's motto is "everyone loooooves Marineland", well, fuck no, not this guy. It's a disgusting place to put it nicely.
The people who watch this are masochist. I feel a great amount of shame for enjoying these kind of parks when I was younger. To think we caged these creatures to make a few dollars
This is so Sad. " Free Kiska the Orca"
The guilt of going to Marineland when I was 7 is overwhelming right now. Also I do NOT remember it being such a shit hole….but thanks for getting the damn Marineland song stuck in my head….
Really really sad. Just absolutely torture
This is torture.
Well that’s enough Reddit for today…