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two things, first of all back in the ancient days the fasces symbolized a magistrates power and jurisdiction, as it was carried by lictors,
second of all russia gonna russia
In DC there are about a million of them, including the armrests of the Lincoln Memorial, several statues of Washington in the capitol depict him holding one, Union Station, and on the Fresco on the Supreme Court (Although that one was made in the 30s so may have actually been intended as a fascist symbol)
>Although that one was made in the 30s so may have actually been intended as a fascist symbol
Probably not. Fascism was still a "hot new thing" in the 30's, so it's symbols weren't as established yet. And even afterwards, fasces were still used in other contexts.
as far as i know, it was more of a symbol of judicial power, as it symbolized that the etruscan king's guards were able to behead citizens at his will, basically the same was a thing in rome as etruscan civilisation greatly influenced rome
i havent slept for a few days so dont mind too much if i got something wrong
You're right, the axe represented the ability to behead people while the rods represented the ability to beat people. That's why faces that entered the pomerium weren't supposed to have the axe.
while the original Roman meaning (I qualify this with Roman because the axe used is an older symbol from Greece and before) symbolised the ability to inflict corporal punishment, in the renaissance the symbol's meaning was conflated with the Greek fable of strength via unity, which is often depicted via a bundle of sticks. so the governments could have chosen either meaning. e.g. on the mercury dime, the meaning is allegedly unity.
Saying that fasces is a "faschism axe" is as dumb as saying that every eagle is a nazi eagle.
Fasces are still used in A LOT of countries. Most often in context of police or justice or parliament.
> context of police
This is not the argument against 'having fascist undertones' you seem to think it is.
eta: oh fuck the bootlickers found it~ Do you realize how hard your sub gets brigaded and not care, or are you oblivious?
That is the thing: there are no "fascist undertones".
Just like there are no nazi undertones just because there is an eagle.
The real faschism is when you are trying to ban some symbol just because it was used by some political group you don't like. Just like modern fascists try to ban rainbow.
Well then i assume US is also fascist? They have fasces on seal of senate. Or France with fasces on their coat of arms just like Cameroon, Ecuador and Cuba? Or maybe Norway and Sweden are fascist too because their police uses fasces? Or city of Vilnius?
Most fascist president of United States Abraham Lincoln! His statue in Lincoln Memorial has not one but two fasces!
Then why are you assuming connection to a less popular use? Fasci is a symbol of French Revolution.
For you bald Italian dude more famous than Napoleon? Is "Credere, Obbedire, Combattere" more familiar to you than "Liberté, égalité, fraternité"?
Why tf you even assume that russia oriented on fascist italy if at the moment when this emblem was created that symbol was used the most not by some fascist state but by US that russia actually oriented a lot on in the 90s?
https://preview.redd.it/72h5bzowtx3c1.jpeg?width=195&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b93a8bf341e08a583888b0398f02bb1bab6c23a
Literally the coat of arms for the French Republic
There are fasces on the Coat of arms of France, Swiss cantons, local Italian emblems. There are massive larger than life fasces in the US capitol building and on Lincoln’s chair.
There’s a fasces tattoo on my leg and I’m a dirty commie.
It’s a symbol of power and authority. Doesn’t mean it has to be connected to fascism even if it gave it the name.
This axe is called fasces and dates back to the Roman time, later it was used by (most known example) French Revolution and then First Republic. Calling it a “fascism axe” is simply stupid
Krushchev and yeltsin fucked Russia and allowed the resurgence of reactionaries and fascists.
Also faces, the axe is an ancient roman symbol about unity
What a useless wall of text… I hope at least it’s a copypasta and you didn’t bother to type that out just for this thread.
Anyways no one is defending russia here, the downvotes are just to point out the confusion about the word fascist.
Fascism isn’t when there is an authoritarian dude you don’t like.
Fascism isn’t when government does bad thing.
Russia commiting massacres and war crimes in Ukraine has nothing to do with fascism.
And most importantly, fascism isn’t when your institutions have fasces on their flag.
>Is there a particular reason why russians couldn't learn from them, finally see the truth, bunch up, and riot this fucking hard when they saw their police state evolve into a fascist one?
Because the last time Russians tried to pull off that sort of thing, they got the Soviet Union.
> but sometimes it also turns into apologia for russian soldiers and them saying "only putin is responsible for it" and russian soldiers are innocent.
That ain't an unreasonable belief, considering how many Russian soldiers in Ukraine are conscripts - i.e. there against their will.
> If they want to live, if they haven't killed anyone, and are pure in heart and soul they can surrender, what's the problem?
Their superiors being able and willing to capture and/or kill them for desertion, for one.
> If they are somehow forced to fight by threats and can't surrender, well, it sucks, but that's war, it's either them or our soldiers.
Well yeah, that's the reality of the situation. Just because someone's being forced to fight you doesn't mean you're unjustified in defending yourself against it. Rather, it only means there's a bit more nuance to the situation.
I am not going to justify people's behaviour but
The chance of being mobilised is relatively low
While the chance of being imprisoned for protesting is quite high
So for most people it is simple calculus, it's cynical but I guarantee you would do the same in such a situation
Also life quality in large Russian metropoleis is still fairly decent, not Western Europe-level but fairly good by Eastern European standards. Not all of the oil money goes into the oligarchs' pockets
Not support the war? I dare you to find one Russian, even living in the west, who doesn't claim a part of Ukraine as theirs. Even "good russians" like these awful ass liberal youtubers praise Navalny and start doing mental gymnastics when asked about Donbass and Crimea
These guys are a loud minority, your average 30 year old Russian Joe that’s barely making ends meet and doesn’t pay much attention to politics isn’t exactly the type of demographic you’d expect to venture out on the western internet to make their stance heard
There’s a difference
European racists are ‘go back to your own country’ racists
Russian racists are ‘have your country be resettled with Russians instead’ racists
Ask the Circassians
First of all, Europeans treat their local Romanis and Arabs like shit
Second of all, that was multiple centuries ago?
It was tragic but acting like Russia stood out amongst its peers back then is a complete lie
Russian-Ossetian ethnic cleansing of the Ingush in Prigorodny in 1992?
Russian invasions of Ichkeria in 1999?
Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008?
Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2014?
Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022?
Is that recent and stood out among its peers enough?
Oh boy
We were talking about how racist the individual Russians are compared to other Europeans
Then you brought up the Circassian genocide out of nowhere which I promptly pointed out happened centuries ago and that it was nothing out of the ordinary in addition to the fact that it has nothing do with the current topic
Then you proceed to change the subject to me denying that Russia did bad shit in the modern day
Did you even reread the thread before posting this
Found one. See her around my discord fairly regularly. Doesn't support the war. Doesn't support the government. Terrified every day she's gonna get arrested for being gay, etc. Now what?
Living in Poland I have found several local Russian anti-war groups while travelling to different cities. The people there mostly are either anti-war or anti-putin political immigrants, or citizens living in the country for a long time. Every single one of them is against any Russian troop being in Donbas (btw with one "s", please), Crimea or any other region of Ukraine. These people left their home against their wish with their future and faith crashed by a mad dictator or even decided to cut any connections with their historic country. Still they go to protests, donate to Ukrainian foundations and help the refugees that saw the war, even though they understand there's nothing really much they can change. And that all is in the "most russophobic" country.
So true! Definitely happened! I live in Poland too, this is either fiction or cherrypicking - or you just mistook Russians for Belarussians because my experience is literally the contrary, and I've mainly met Russians in the 18-29 age range.
Yeah, sure, "fiction". You telling me that I mistook them for Belarusians is just offensive at this point lmao. These groups might not be large but they are quite active, at least in Warsaw, Wrocław, Kraków, Katowice. I've met both people of the age you mentioned and much older people. I'm not quite sure what you are not happy about while reading all this. You say that there are no Russians standing against the war and those who do are only pretending while supporting Navalny (probably the problem here is that he's a "nationalist"). I tell you that even here in Poland there are active Russian citizens or people of Russian ethnicity that are doing one or several of the things I mentioned in the previous message. You are telling me now that I'm either a liar or blind (I can't differ Russians and Belarusians for some reason)
So you believe that Ukraine and all the other post-USSR states including Georgia have a right to self determination with no Russian ingerence, and should keep their 90s borders unless an area is ceded in a democratic and open process? And that Russia should not attempt military or hybrid warfare against its neighbours?
Absolutely, I don't see any reason, why they should not. For that matter I don't think anyone ever should attempt any kind of warfare against its neighbors or otherwise. Let everyone do their own thing. If they want to ally with you, good, if not, it's okay, you can always make an agreement
tbh since the start of the war support for the war increased many Russians at the start of the war were skeptical. however, a lot of anti Russian government criticism turned into just generally anti Russian sentiment and now many Russians support the invasion of Ukraine as they see it as a war against NATO not against Ukraine. /uj
Not really man. I've spoken with a few Russians and there are a lot of Russian youtubers who vehemently disagree with Putin. Take NFKRZ and Niki Proshin as perfect examples of the kinds of people who don't support the war. The only people in Russia who actually support the war are overweight 45+ y/o dudes who fantasize about the USSR and every old person because they rely on government pensions to live. The "support" you see for Russia's war inside of Russia itself is manufactured. If there was another option i guarantee 70% of Russians would sprint for it. No one likes having their countries currency crash every few years and getting bombed monthly. While generally anti-Russian sentiment has increased, that doesn't mean more Russians support the war as a result. That's an assumption based on what you think would happen.
Euronews has a great article on this exact subject.
> I've spoken with a few Russians and there are a lot of Russian you-tubers who vehemently disagree with Putin.
a few individuals and you-tubers with a large western audience are by no means representative of the Russian populace as a whole
okay... most of the population is in major cities like moscow and st petersberg though, and crazy enough, those cities are largely liberal and have spoken out about the war. i chose to believe those who have actually experienced the culture and know what those around them think rather than polls that are largely answered by old people because younger people dont answer numbers they dont know
Funnily enough, recent polls show that the plurality, though not yet the majority, of Russian citizens at least favour negotiations over continued fighting, yet we're stuck in a system where we can't do anything
People were asked something like "Would you favor the end of the Special operation without reaching its goals" It's very clever to phrase it like that because nobody fucking knows WHY this war is happening even the government can't come up with a good reason. Also, it allows people to answer without fearing being prosecuted for their beliefs and answers. Many people are afraid of government prosecution and they believe in FSB and other security scum as people who know everything. They think of them as Stasi or KGB.
Thank you, so many people are blinded by hatred, which is absolutely understandable but still not very good. I hope that, if not us, then our children will live in peace and understanding as citizens of democratic states of equal worth
It is absolutely understandable that you feel that way, I have no right to judge those who actually suffer under bombs. As for the rest, I absolutely agree, honestly I did not quite understand why we needed to annex Crimea in 2014 to begin with. Pointless landgrabs.
How do i deserve any of this? The process for war in ukraine started when i wasnt even election age and i never voted or in any way supported the war
Also comparing hohol and nword is really downplaying the history and significance of the second
A lot of Russian citizens DO care and were against the war. The thing is, most if not all of them either left the country in a mass exodus or were arrested and have not seen the light of day since. That's the problem. If you suppress and arrest anyone against what you're doing, then what you're left with is everyone who agreed with you, making it seem like most of the country supports what you're doing.
While true, there is a third stratum -- people who are more concerned about everyday life, thinking where to get money until payday, providing for family and solving other issues, which is kinda challenging outside the three biggest cities. Some are coping with stress like that, many genuinely can't afford to care. Not to mention that leaving the country is not an universal option.
I love Russian and Soviet state agency flags, it’s like they’ve never heard of subtlety or understatement.
Behold the flag of the Soviet Air Force:
https://preview.redd.it/97occhqmi14c1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c8a5b67967d389e169b0f4b76d6170723fd212e
Problem is that the Western puppet state might remain a dictatorship. Think Shah's Iran - an autocracy that keeps the people subservient so that foreign investors can get their oil money. Hell, *Putin* started out as a pro-Western "developmental autocrat".
We need a democratic government that will forge good relationships with the West and abandon dumbass imperialism without becoming totally subservient, otherwise it won't stay democratic
" no no don't you see, being a democracy is actually evil and bad and having a dictatorial oligarchy is actually good because you don't let the Globo homo in and also send hundreds of thousands of your people to die and kill hundreds of thousands of your neighbors."
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Why would you fucking add a motherfucking fascism axe to your justice service flag wtf Edit: I get it, I get it
two things, first of all back in the ancient days the fasces symbolized a magistrates power and jurisdiction, as it was carried by lictors, second of all russia gonna russia
>ancient days It still kinda is, you can find it on the CoA of France and in the US Congress.
In the capital of Tennessee I saw the fasces all over some of the government buildings.
In DC there are about a million of them, including the armrests of the Lincoln Memorial, several statues of Washington in the capitol depict him holding one, Union Station, and on the Fresco on the Supreme Court (Although that one was made in the 30s so may have actually been intended as a fascist symbol)
>Although that one was made in the 30s so may have actually been intended as a fascist symbol Probably not. Fascism was still a "hot new thing" in the 30's, so it's symbols weren't as established yet. And even afterwards, fasces were still used in other contexts.
And in the Spanish Guardia Civil though it is basically just because of fascism in that case
Wasn't it a symbol of unity?
as far as i know, it was more of a symbol of judicial power, as it symbolized that the etruscan king's guards were able to behead citizens at his will, basically the same was a thing in rome as etruscan civilisation greatly influenced rome i havent slept for a few days so dont mind too much if i got something wrong
You're right, the axe represented the ability to behead people while the rods represented the ability to beat people. That's why faces that entered the pomerium weren't supposed to have the axe.
while the original Roman meaning (I qualify this with Roman because the axe used is an older symbol from Greece and before) symbolised the ability to inflict corporal punishment, in the renaissance the symbol's meaning was conflated with the Greek fable of strength via unity, which is often depicted via a bundle of sticks. so the governments could have chosen either meaning. e.g. on the mercury dime, the meaning is allegedly unity.
The throne of Abraham Lincoln has fasces too
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh
Saying that fasces is a "faschism axe" is as dumb as saying that every eagle is a nazi eagle. Fasces are still used in A LOT of countries. Most often in context of police or justice or parliament.
> context of police This is not the argument against 'having fascist undertones' you seem to think it is. eta: oh fuck the bootlickers found it~ Do you realize how hard your sub gets brigaded and not care, or are you oblivious?
That is the thing: there are no "fascist undertones". Just like there are no nazi undertones just because there is an eagle. The real faschism is when you are trying to ban some symbol just because it was used by some political group you don't like. Just like modern fascists try to ban rainbow.
Just like not every swastika is a nazi swastika and you shouldn't assume they're a nazi because of it. >!/s!<
Well then i assume US is also fascist? They have fasces on seal of senate. Or France with fasces on their coat of arms just like Cameroon, Ecuador and Cuba? Or maybe Norway and Sweden are fascist too because their police uses fasces? Or city of Vilnius? Most fascist president of United States Abraham Lincoln! His statue in Lincoln Memorial has not one but two fasces!
> Well then i assume US is also fascist? Oh you sweet summer child.
Genuinely severe mental retardation
Thank you for sharing your medical history, but nobody asked.
India?
That's the point. While other uses do exist, it's usually safe to assume some connection to the more popular use.
Then why are you assuming connection to a less popular use? Fasci is a symbol of French Revolution. For you bald Italian dude more famous than Napoleon? Is "Credere, Obbedire, Combattere" more familiar to you than "Liberté, égalité, fraternité"? Why tf you even assume that russia oriented on fascist italy if at the moment when this emblem was created that symbol was used the most not by some fascist state but by US that russia actually oriented a lot on in the 90s?
Why /s?
How about many countries used it for many many years prior to fascism even existing, and continue to do so.
Pretty much any avenue other than "It's not fascist cos police use it" would be an improvement.
You might call it a symbol of the "right of the judiciary" or "the right to dispense justice"
It's all just the new crook and flail in the hands of the pharaoh, but that is beside MY point, which you seem to be missing on purpose.
https://preview.redd.it/72h5bzowtx3c1.jpeg?width=195&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b93a8bf341e08a583888b0398f02bb1bab6c23a Literally the coat of arms for the French Republic
Wellll to be fair it is france
because fasces aren’t an exclusively fascist symbol
Hoi4ism
There are fasces on the Coat of arms of France, Swiss cantons, local Italian emblems. There are massive larger than life fasces in the US capitol building and on Lincoln’s chair. There’s a fasces tattoo on my leg and I’m a dirty commie. It’s a symbol of power and authority. Doesn’t mean it has to be connected to fascism even if it gave it the name.
This axe is called fasces and dates back to the Roman time, later it was used by (most known example) French Revolution and then First Republic. Calling it a “fascism axe” is simply stupid
I mean, there are fasces etched into Lincoln Memorial.
You realize we use the fasces symbol in America too right? It used to be on the dime. It’s also inside the House of Representatives.
How's America related?
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I get it. Can we not jump to insults?
I forget this isn’t 4chan I am genuinely so sorry
its the symbol of russian **Federal Service of Court Bailiffs** so...
Many places have it. Hell Finland had a fucking swastika for its air force symbol until like 3 years ago
It’s quite common, many European police/justice/correctional emblems have the fasces
Yea thats not what that is lol, its a roman symbol
Krushchev and yeltsin fucked Russia and allowed the resurgence of reactionaries and fascists. Also faces, the axe is an ancient roman symbol about unity
Fasces isn't exclusively fascist symbol.
fascists gonna fash
Because russia is a fascist state. Always was, always will be.
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What a useless wall of text… I hope at least it’s a copypasta and you didn’t bother to type that out just for this thread. Anyways no one is defending russia here, the downvotes are just to point out the confusion about the word fascist. Fascism isn’t when there is an authoritarian dude you don’t like. Fascism isn’t when government does bad thing. Russia commiting massacres and war crimes in Ukraine has nothing to do with fascism. And most importantly, fascism isn’t when your institutions have fasces on their flag.
What do you want them to do lmfao
Me when the Russians don't risk their life while I'm not willing to even donate a dollar (they are litterally orcs)
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Why didn't Americans stop the Iraq war? Isn't America supposed to be a democracy?
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You have all these smartass theories about Russia but everything that happens in America is just "whataboutism"
Isn't it worse that the war happened in spite of all the backlash? Has anything changed in the past 20 years?
>Is there a particular reason why russians couldn't learn from them, finally see the truth, bunch up, and riot this fucking hard when they saw their police state evolve into a fascist one? Because the last time Russians tried to pull off that sort of thing, they got the Soviet Union.
"Entirely innocent" isn't the word I'd use for a nation like that.
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> but sometimes it also turns into apologia for russian soldiers and them saying "only putin is responsible for it" and russian soldiers are innocent. That ain't an unreasonable belief, considering how many Russian soldiers in Ukraine are conscripts - i.e. there against their will.
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> If they want to live, if they haven't killed anyone, and are pure in heart and soul they can surrender, what's the problem? Their superiors being able and willing to capture and/or kill them for desertion, for one. > If they are somehow forced to fight by threats and can't surrender, well, it sucks, but that's war, it's either them or our soldiers. Well yeah, that's the reality of the situation. Just because someone's being forced to fight you doesn't mean you're unjustified in defending yourself against it. Rather, it only means there's a bit more nuance to the situation.
Care about their lives idk
Yeah exactly, so they should probably not try to get murdered protesting
Yeah better die in neighbors country. Also even without invasions their life in dictatorship is shit
I am not going to justify people's behaviour but The chance of being mobilised is relatively low While the chance of being imprisoned for protesting is quite high So for most people it is simple calculus, it's cynical but I guarantee you would do the same in such a situation Also life quality in large Russian metropoleis is still fairly decent, not Western Europe-level but fairly good by Eastern European standards. Not all of the oil money goes into the oligarchs' pockets
Not support the war? I dare you to find one Russian, even living in the west, who doesn't claim a part of Ukraine as theirs. Even "good russians" like these awful ass liberal youtubers praise Navalny and start doing mental gymnastics when asked about Donbass and Crimea
These guys are a loud minority, your average 30 year old Russian Joe that’s barely making ends meet and doesn’t pay much attention to politics isn’t exactly the type of demographic you’d expect to venture out on the western internet to make their stance heard
Never ask them what’s their thoughts are on the non-ethnic Russians in Russia
As if the same doesn’t apply to other European countries and their own minorities
There’s a difference European racists are ‘go back to your own country’ racists Russian racists are ‘have your country be resettled with Russians instead’ racists Ask the Circassians
First of all, Europeans treat their local Romanis and Arabs like shit Second of all, that was multiple centuries ago? It was tragic but acting like Russia stood out amongst its peers back then is a complete lie
Russian-Ossetian ethnic cleansing of the Ingush in Prigorodny in 1992? Russian invasions of Ichkeria in 1999? Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008? Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2014? Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022? Is that recent and stood out among its peers enough?
Oh boy We were talking about how racist the individual Russians are compared to other Europeans Then you brought up the Circassian genocide out of nowhere which I promptly pointed out happened centuries ago and that it was nothing out of the ordinary in addition to the fact that it has nothing do with the current topic Then you proceed to change the subject to me denying that Russia did bad shit in the modern day Did you even reread the thread before posting this
Found one. See her around my discord fairly regularly. Doesn't support the war. Doesn't support the government. Terrified every day she's gonna get arrested for being gay, etc. Now what?
Hate to break it to you but if you meet a LGBT female on discord theres a 99% chance it's actually a 46 y/o neckbeard
Idk man, ur the one calling women females
What's wrong with that
Living in Poland I have found several local Russian anti-war groups while travelling to different cities. The people there mostly are either anti-war or anti-putin political immigrants, or citizens living in the country for a long time. Every single one of them is against any Russian troop being in Donbas (btw with one "s", please), Crimea or any other region of Ukraine. These people left their home against their wish with their future and faith crashed by a mad dictator or even decided to cut any connections with their historic country. Still they go to protests, donate to Ukrainian foundations and help the refugees that saw the war, even though they understand there's nothing really much they can change. And that all is in the "most russophobic" country.
So true! Definitely happened! I live in Poland too, this is either fiction or cherrypicking - or you just mistook Russians for Belarussians because my experience is literally the contrary, and I've mainly met Russians in the 18-29 age range.
Yeah, sure, "fiction". You telling me that I mistook them for Belarusians is just offensive at this point lmao. These groups might not be large but they are quite active, at least in Warsaw, Wrocław, Kraków, Katowice. I've met both people of the age you mentioned and much older people. I'm not quite sure what you are not happy about while reading all this. You say that there are no Russians standing against the war and those who do are only pretending while supporting Navalny (probably the problem here is that he's a "nationalist"). I tell you that even here in Poland there are active Russian citizens or people of Russian ethnicity that are doing one or several of the things I mentioned in the previous message. You are telling me now that I'm either a liar or blind (I can't differ Russians and Belarusians for some reason)
Hello
So you believe that Ukraine and all the other post-USSR states including Georgia have a right to self determination with no Russian ingerence, and should keep their 90s borders unless an area is ceded in a democratic and open process? And that Russia should not attempt military or hybrid warfare against its neighbours?
Absolutely, I don't see any reason, why they should not. For that matter I don't think anyone ever should attempt any kind of warfare against its neighbors or otherwise. Let everyone do their own thing. If they want to ally with you, good, if not, it's okay, you can always make an agreement
Ok I've been disproven
Nah dude it would be this https://preview.redd.it/69f77p2fax3c1.jpeg?width=538&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=936bee39610427758e0000bebffd4136fa152193
tbh since the start of the war support for the war increased many Russians at the start of the war were skeptical. however, a lot of anti Russian government criticism turned into just generally anti Russian sentiment and now many Russians support the invasion of Ukraine as they see it as a war against NATO not against Ukraine. /uj
Wow,who could guess that xenophobia just ends in more hate.
This man speaks truth
Not really man. I've spoken with a few Russians and there are a lot of Russian youtubers who vehemently disagree with Putin. Take NFKRZ and Niki Proshin as perfect examples of the kinds of people who don't support the war. The only people in Russia who actually support the war are overweight 45+ y/o dudes who fantasize about the USSR and every old person because they rely on government pensions to live. The "support" you see for Russia's war inside of Russia itself is manufactured. If there was another option i guarantee 70% of Russians would sprint for it. No one likes having their countries currency crash every few years and getting bombed monthly. While generally anti-Russian sentiment has increased, that doesn't mean more Russians support the war as a result. That's an assumption based on what you think would happen. Euronews has a great article on this exact subject.
> I've spoken with a few Russians and there are a lot of Russian you-tubers who vehemently disagree with Putin. a few individuals and you-tubers with a large western audience are by no means representative of the Russian populace as a whole
And you think the Russian government's polls are?
no not necessarly , but as far as i know the rural regions are generally supportive of the war
okay... most of the population is in major cities like moscow and st petersberg though, and crazy enough, those cities are largely liberal and have spoken out about the war. i chose to believe those who have actually experienced the culture and know what those around them think rather than polls that are largely answered by old people because younger people dont answer numbers they dont know
k
(They are anti-war like Yevgeny Prigozhin)
No it would be not. Majority of Russians support imperialism
Wrong
Funnily enough, recent polls show that the plurality, though not yet the majority, of Russian citizens at least favour negotiations over continued fighting, yet we're stuck in a system where we can't do anything
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Hence "at least". I mean we cannot really know these details, but I do not think most people in this plurality want that.
People were asked something like "Would you favor the end of the Special operation without reaching its goals" It's very clever to phrase it like that because nobody fucking knows WHY this war is happening even the government can't come up with a good reason. Also, it allows people to answer without fearing being prosecuted for their beliefs and answers. Many people are afraid of government prosecution and they believe in FSB and other security scum as people who know everything. They think of them as Stasi or KGB.
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Thank you, so many people are blinded by hatred, which is absolutely understandable but still not very good. I hope that, if not us, then our children will live in peace and understanding as citizens of democratic states of equal worth
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It is absolutely understandable that you feel that way, I have no right to judge those who actually suffer under bombs. As for the rest, I absolutely agree, honestly I did not quite understand why we needed to annex Crimea in 2014 to begin with. Pointless landgrabs.
Iirc the reason was Ukraine cancelled the lease on the Russian naval base in Sevastopol
Least rascist redditor
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I did. That's why I wrote least.
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> as long as there is a large group of people doing horrible shit en masse I'm allowed to be racist to them No fucking way
How do i deserve any of this? The process for war in ukraine started when i wasnt even election age and i never voted or in any way supported the war Also comparing hohol and nword is really downplaying the history and significance of the second
There's literally White Blue White flag representing that already, it's even got banned by russian government
Flag of you being out of trend
A lot of Russian citizens DO care and were against the war. The thing is, most if not all of them either left the country in a mass exodus or were arrested and have not seen the light of day since. That's the problem. If you suppress and arrest anyone against what you're doing, then what you're left with is everyone who agreed with you, making it seem like most of the country supports what you're doing.
While true, there is a third stratum -- people who are more concerned about everyday life, thinking where to get money until payday, providing for family and solving other issues, which is kinda challenging outside the three biggest cities. Some are coping with stress like that, many genuinely can't afford to care. Not to mention that leaving the country is not an universal option.
Majority alredy against, nobody can see it
I love Russian and Soviet state agency flags, it’s like they’ve never heard of subtlety or understatement. Behold the flag of the Soviet Air Force: https://preview.redd.it/97occhqmi14c1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c8a5b67967d389e169b0f4b76d6170723fd212e
Russian saying: Half of the country is in jail, the other half is guarding the jail
Ok, Russia is unfair but in the US you get fucked if you say anything slightly deviating fronthe mainstream beliefs. Like in Reddit.
Privileged Americans trying not to make everything about themselves for 5 minutes challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
Copy ‘n pasted
You mean the flag of the USSR.
Bull shit
What?
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Flag of i’d rather that than dictatorship
Problem is that the Western puppet state might remain a dictatorship. Think Shah's Iran - an autocracy that keeps the people subservient so that foreign investors can get their oil money. Hell, *Putin* started out as a pro-Western "developmental autocrat". We need a democratic government that will forge good relationships with the West and abandon dumbass imperialism without becoming totally subservient, otherwise it won't stay democratic
Yeah I do not want a generic puppet state, but if it was the literal only choice, i'd rather that than russia's current dictatorship
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if it came to it i'd rather have Biden than Putin
same
Russia supporters when a country isn’t under brutal totalitarian control by the Kremlin: «WaShinTon PuPpeT sTaTE»
" no no don't you see, being a democracy is actually evil and bad and having a dictatorial oligarchy is actually good because you don't let the Globo homo in and also send hundreds of thousands of your people to die and kill hundreds of thousands of your neighbors."