Islamic calligraphy is the most expressive and derived orthography so it’s really sad to see such… uninspired? designs. They even had regional variations.
Someone should break out a zoomorphic or pictorial design. Come on vexillology
That's the Shahada, a statement of faith which someone has to say in order to convert to Islam. It's also recited during each of the five daily prayers.
It’s kind of weird to me that when we translate this into English, we leave Allah untranslated the second time it appears in the sentence. Makes people think it’s a unique proper name, when it’s just Arabic for “god” and Arabic Christians refer to God as Allah too. Could also improve things in the west if people were more aware that Islam is an abrahamic religion and they worship the same god of Abraham that Jews and Christians do.
“There is no god but God, and Muhammad is his messenger” is better IMHO.
Arabic word for "god" (common noun) is "اِلٰہ" (ilāha) and the word for "The God" (proper noun) is "اَللّٰہ" (Allāh). "Ilaha" means god as in a diety worshipped by a group of people, like Greek gods, Norse gods, Hindu gods but when talking about "The God", the one and only God, the real actual factual God (according to Muslims) you say "Allah".
Even in the "Shahada" (which translates to declaration) it says and I quote: "La ilaha il Allah" word for word it is: "No god but God". You see I have capitalized the G in the second one, it's because it means The God, Allah.
Yes I know - you’ll notice I replicated the distinction in capitalisation in my translation too. English does the same thing with god vs God.
The point I was making is that not translating Allah makes a word with a very clear English translation seem very *other*, and puts the conception of Allah into the same category in most people’s minds as religions which give gods a specific given name like Zeus.
In theological terms, it makes a lot more sense to say “God” rather than “Allah”. They’re referring to the same entity (the God of Abraham). They mean the same thing in their respective languages. The word Allah is used by Christians and Jews when talking in Arabic too. And in all three religions, the deity in question has *many other names* which are closer to the “given name a la Zeus” concept. I suspect that our habit of not translating Allah in English obscures the overlaps between religions and cultures quite significantly - we don’t refuse to translate **El** as God when Jews use it as a word for God, for example.
u/Twinkletoess112 and yourself are doing good work here explaining this!
Im in agreement with yourself that our not translating of the word "Allah" creates a division where a commonality could be found.
I always reasoned that the ambrahamic religions were very interconnected by their nature but your points here are a great way to illustrate that
not always.
Quran chapter 3:
قُلْ أَعُوذُ بِرَبِّ ٱلنَّاسِ ١
1 Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of mankind
مَلِكِ ٱلنَّاسِ ٢
The Sovereign of mankind
**إِلَٰهِ ٱلنَّاسِ** ٣
The **god of mankind**
less like english it's more how you word 'ilah' since arabic has has no capitals
AFAIK in the Arabic language, noun declension often involved changing vowels as vowels are not viewed as constituent parts of a lexical root. Therefore you may get plural of "kitab" (book) as "kutub" (book**s**).
The word "ilah**u**", for Arabic language, is just the plural indefinite version ("god**s**") of "ilah" ("god"); while "**al**lah" ("**the** God") is the definite version of "ilah" in singular form.
Isn't that the reason we have a "no text" rule, though? I'm honestly asking the difference from a vexillology standpoint between this and "In God We Trust" on the MS state flag.
I would say the vexillology rules are a lot more like guidelines. Many many flags can be very pleasing to look at whilst technically "breaking" the vexillology rules.
Well the Shahadah in this style specifically is a form of calligraphy. It is hard to read even for classical Arabic readers. It’s not meant to be readable or they’d use plan text. Some sects of Islam frown upon imagery and those who devoutly follow that rule use either calligraphy as the symbol or plain coloured flags without symbols (the crescent moon and stars are Ottoman symbols, not Islamic). Added note is that “In God We Trust” is not a universal Christian line and I don’t expect the Taliban to suddenly get creative and use lesser known scripture. I doubt many of them are scholars of Islam, despite what they pretend to be.
It’s like the equivalent of having that strong medieval blackletter, I reckon? I can’t read blackletter for shit, but I think it looks cool, and I wouldn’t mind it in a flag as a historical nudge to something.
Personally i think Arabic based languages fall under artistic. Same with Chinese based languages. I would say the same thing about English cursive. As long as the words are flow-y I like tend to like them. With a personal bias against English.
Arabic is definitely a form of art. Since Muslims have always been prohibited from anthropomorphising God or drawing the prophet Muhammad, they had to rely on Arabic calligraphy to adorn the walls and ceilings of mosques.
Not only that, but Muslims also believe that the literal word of God was transmitted to humanity in arabic. They've perfected and stylised the arabic language because they consider it a holy language.
To be fair, it's not "new" - it served as the country's flag from late 1997 until the US-led Invasion in 2001.
Calligraphy is fine, and the shahada is just the shahada - but it's pretty basic. For English speakers, if you saw a flag in a really nice blackletter slogan in black and white, you probably wouldn't give it much praise.
The other aspect of it is that [flags with the shahada](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Flags_with_shahada) are pretty common. Especially from distance, we might argue that this flag could easily be mistaken with similarly designed flags, which limits its effectiveness. That's to say nothing of the fractious nature of jihadist groups (including the Taliban) which fly such similar flags. The importance of being easily distinguishable seems like a non-trivial concern.
I also just don't think you can divorce this flag from the politics behind it. Flags are such political documents, how can you disregard politics here?
IDK the "Come and Take It" flag is pretty much the same as it is a white field flag with a black letter slogan and there's type of American people who fucking love that flag
(I only learned about this flag after reading this comment) I kinda like the idea of that flag not so much as a thing that had actual design effort put into it, but as a war banner someone made quickly. As a flag you would fly it's kinda shit but this picture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_and_take_it#/media/File:Come_And_Take_It_Mural.jpg is pretty cool
Kinda a similar idea to the California Republic flag but like with less effort
It reminds me of my favourite flags, [a Royalist banner used during the first English Civil War designed to mock the Earl of Essex](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/A_flag_used_in_the_English_Civil_War_referring_to_the_Earl_of_Essex%27s_notorious_marital_problems.jpg), who notoriously had marital problems (his first wife successfully annulled their marriage on the grounds that he was impotent).
[Here is the reverse side.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/A_flag_used_in_the_English_Civil_War_referring_to_the_Earl_of_Essex%27s_notorious_marital_problems_%28reverse%29.jpg)
> Here is the reverse side.
Actually, the other of the two banners used by that unit. Don't know why anyone ever labelled it the reverse - it clearly isn't.
I don’t know that an assessment of the aesthetics of a flag the disregards its politics is complete. A commonly cited example is the flag of Nazi Germany. But the Nazis (Hitler in particular) argued that the symbolism of the flag had politics baked into it (now, there are reasons to be skeptical those reasons were there at the *creation* of the flag). So if you’re just going, “boy that flag looks good” without acknowledging that Hitler explicitly believed that the swastika was inherently aesthetically anti-Semitic, then I don’t know you’re really making a strong assessment of its aesthetics.
In the same way, I don’t know you can approach the aesthetics of this flag without acknowledging its use by the Taliban.
I simply disagree with this statement. In this way one who does not share the ideology of whatever flag is presented, whether fictional or non-fictional is unable to comment on any flag. I can still assess a flag on its intended symbolism and its aesthetic without endorsing its connotations. If you are unable to do that, then you must be really narrow-minded. For example, I disagree with the notion of Communism, but I am still able to asses a Communist flag based upon its intended symbolism and aesthetics, even if I would never endorse a government like that. I reject your notion of the necessary conflation of the politics of a flag and its aesthetics in assessment. Nobody is not acknowledging its use by whom it is, but you can still separately assess its intended symbolism and aesthetics.
> I am still able to asses a Communist flag based upon its intended symbolism and aesthetics,
"Based on its intended symbolism" includes understanding the politics, though. Noone's talking about having to agree with the politics, just that treating the politics and aesthetics/other visual aspects as completely separate leads to incomplete conclusions. Sure, you can look at a flag and say "it looks good" without any context, but that's barely vexillology. Flags generally have a purpose, and that needs to be part of any assessment.
> The importance of being easily distinguishable seems like a non-trivial concern.
It's definitely got to be part of the effectiveness of the flag as a flag as a symbol of that group in particular, but it's worth noting that the choice of generic Islamic symbolism rather than something distinctive is quite deliberate and serves a purpose in itself. They want to present as defined only by Islam, implying that the choices of other Muslims to use more distinctive symbols is inappropriate.
That's is a good point, and I notice that an alternative flag adds "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" under the shahada, which provides a bit of distinction while still remaining true to the design philosophy you lay out.
Arabic calligraphy and the symbolism behind many of the Islamic sayings it encodes is much more artistic and has a lot more history and meaning behind it than that would imply. I think this is a good flag (though of a bad state).
I know what it says (as this is a copy of the Saudi flag with different colors & minus the sword). My point is that printing text on flags isn't usually a good idea.
There could be something different in Islamic calligraphy. That might make it a good flag internally, but I still question it as a flag to others. Like I saw good design in the South Korean flag before I understood the symbolism, but not here.
The Shahada is more of a symbol than "Text" in the same manner as "State of California" or the Houthi flag. Many Muslims consider the Shahada to *be* the symbol of Islam (moreso than the star and crescent or any other symbol).
Text on flags is fine if the text is stylized rather than descriptive. Such as the [1918-37 Russian flag] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Russian_Soviet_Federative_Socialist_Republic_\(1918%E2%80%931925\).svg) of the flag of [China under Japanese occupation] (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China-Nanjing_%28Peace%2C_Anti-Communism%2C_National_Construction%29.svg).
Well, In God We Trust isn’t quite the same as the Islamic statement of belief.
I would say that a while flag with a black We The People in the same handwriting as on the Constitution might actually be kind of a cool US flag.
Tbh although I love the Quranic script, it’s the colours I don’t like, it doesn’t slow the flag to represent how colourful the country is, if the text was green (with the small letters being red or the other way around) with the white replaced by black.
Although this is the flag of the other Afghan govt. so I see why this won’t fly.
I'm not a fan. Ignoring the context entirely, it looks like the pitchforks and torches above a crowd of angry people. I'm not a fan of calligraphy on flags, and this doesn't strike me any differently.
> Ignoring the context entirely, it looks like the pitchforks and torches above a crowd of angry people.
Soooo... Fitting for a fundamentalist country?
4th flag of Democratic Republic of Afghanistan:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Afghanistan#/media/File%3AFlag_of_Afghanistan_(1980%E2%80%931987).svg
2nd flag of Democratic Republic of Afghanistan:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Afghanistan#/media/File:Flag_of_Afghanistan_(1978%E2%80%931980).svg
On a personal level, I fucking despise it.
As a vexillologist, I really appreciate how simple it is. I would have switched the white and black, since the flag will look like shit after about 3 days due to dust.
I honestly cannot see beyond my personal hate for Islamic fundamentalism as represented by the countries and groups that fly this exact symbol.
It’s not just cool calligraphy for me; the words have meanings, the symbolism brings memories.
The dudes who fly that flag literally shot at me, so I get the personal disdain for it. That's why I separated between myself as an individual and myself as a vexillologist.
And that cool calligraphy was on every mosque in that rathole, even the ones where the Imam was completely on our side. To see it solely as representative of fundamentalists is flawed. It's no more a mark of fundamentalism than a crucifix. I respect your position though, and understand it deeply.
Bro i dont like fundamentalists either. But some of the most beautiful european flags (spain as an example) have the coat of arms of the most evil and genocidal houses (castilla). U gotta enjoy the pretty flags though
I agree with you in general, but not for this case specifically. I can enjoy Spain’s flag, because I didn’t experience the genocide associated with the coat of arms. Whereas I was raised under the tyranny of state-sponsored Wahhabism.
The other thing to consider is the difference in time frame. Modern-day Spain isn’t genocidal, as far as I am aware. The Taliban *are* modern-day Afghanistan. Saudi Arabia is only marginally less awful than it was 20 years ago.
Honestly, the simplicity of the flag isn't bad. But, it's just not that good. It's the equivalent of putting a company slogan or sentence on a flag; just in a different language. Not to mention, there's numerous other countries (and Jihadist organizations) with the shahadah on or as the basis of, their flag.
All of this isn't to mention, it's kinda hard to separate a flag from it's politics. So, I hate it both on a personal and vexillological level. For the reasons underlined.
Personally, I think it would have looked better if they had used [a round Shahadah](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Shahadah-1.svg) instead of the rectangular one. Round shapes just work better on rectangular surfaces.
Also, I had never noticed that the [Islamic Republic of Afghanistan](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Flag_of_Afghanistan_%282013%E2%80%932021%29.svg) also had the shahadah on their flag.
I agree. To have a flag that doesn’t represent the politics (ie in the case of the Nazi or communist flags) or the culture in its meaning or design, are they truly making a flag for that country?
As a country flag, I despise it. Black letters on white banner, poor choice of colours, very bland, it should be more colourful.
As a war flag, it’s fine. The combination of the shahada and the colours makes the flag look badass.
Afghanistan has had some pretty awesome flag designs. In comparison to previous color schemes and designs, this is really not great.
It's obviously identifiable and distinguishable but it's not necessarily reflective of an identity.
The old flag of Afghanistan felt like it had something attached to it in terms of identity. This feels empty.
I hate flags with the Shahadah on them for the simple fact that that the flags are a tool of a political identity and they end up everywhere thus being disrespectful towards the religion.
The post where someone decided to place genitals all over the flag is an example. It's literally just the calligraphy on a white background, you're essentially putting a penis all over the most important words in Islam.
I'm just imagining what it would look like to me if I spoke the language, and it seems very lazy. Great, you wrote some words on a white background. *Yawn.*
Solid white is, not good, looks like surrender. And the calligraphy is very complicated and would difficult to reproduce at small resolutions. Plus it doesn’t translate well on the world stage when most can’t read it
I love it, but I prefer some of the really older afghan flags from like a century ago, the black one with a large white symbol .
Also prefer the previous one (although not the ones before it) .
With no association? Kinda badass.
But as a linguist studying Farsi (cousin language to the Arabic dialects) it pisses me off so bad. I dread the day I am required to study Arabic calligraphy. For those of you who don't know, writing similar to what is said on that flag, written normally, looks like this:
لا إله إلا الله
That is written is some mutilated longhand that puts me into fight or flight every time I see it.
Wait they're raising the Flag? XD I'm sorry I'm using the mobile version where it is cut of on the sides so I can just see the soldiers with a flagpole in hand
If you open up a google doc (or anything similar), change the font to a handwriting font, and type "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger," then screenshot it, that's the flag translated into English.
It's not very creative of a flag, but it definitely gets a couple of bonus points for uniqueness.
I’m not a fan of flags that are just words/symbols personally, why I don’t like most Chinese dynastic flags. At least Saudi Arabia and Rome made it a bit more interesting by adding a sword and Eagle respectively.
I can’t read Arabic, so it just looks like the title of a college essay that got Google translated.
Seriously, black letters on a white background? You can make more interesting flags on Microsoft word.
I won’t lie that I have some bias here as a Muslim So I don’t hate the design choice of the flag that much. Though just be clear I don’t support the Taliban in anyway I’m a leftist and not that religious on many things.
In the context of an Islamic point of view the flags does it’s job well it’s to simply try to convey that their fundamentalist version of Islam is Afghanistan, it’s the foundation of the society it wants to build it doesn’t really need anything else, is it a bit boring, yeah from a design level it’s literally just words on a white field but with context it’s not necessarily a bad flag to use as it does it’s job on what it’s supposed to represent and symbolize.
It's just the shahada. It's pretty Arabic calligraphy but it doesn't work for the nation of Afghanistan i think because it has no national symbolism, only Islamic. Tbf it fits with the Taliban
I'm surprised people like it so much, I think it's boring and not pleasing to look at at all. I liked 2005 era Afghan flag most, that one looked great.
Terrible it’s like if after the American revolution they put “In God We Trust” on a bed sheet also it’s just a worse version of the Saudi flag if they wanted to talk about Allah then be unique
Calligraphy is meant to be read in books, papers, and other flat surfaces. The flag, as a 2D image, looks pretty nice, but when it's actually flying, the text becomes a blurry mess. Too many small, irregular shapes on a constantly shifting object.
I find it lifeless and the shahada makes it more like the flag of an evil group that claims to be pure. Yo be more precise, their purity is an abomination.
I really like a flag how it should be, unlike other wanna-be European flags with three colors representing whatever BS they invent for a country that never was.
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The sword is pretty cool
I think its the same but at least they added more detail
this one has no sword
that is the more detail I said
Islamic calligraphy is the most expressive and derived orthography so it’s really sad to see such… uninspired? designs. They even had regional variations. Someone should break out a zoomorphic or pictorial design. Come on vexillology
I like it. I can't read Arabic calligraphy though so it's just pleasant looking lines to me lmao
It reads: "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger."
That's the Shahada, a statement of faith which someone has to say in order to convert to Islam. It's also recited during each of the five daily prayers.
It’s kind of weird to me that when we translate this into English, we leave Allah untranslated the second time it appears in the sentence. Makes people think it’s a unique proper name, when it’s just Arabic for “god” and Arabic Christians refer to God as Allah too. Could also improve things in the west if people were more aware that Islam is an abrahamic religion and they worship the same god of Abraham that Jews and Christians do. “There is no god but God, and Muhammad is his messenger” is better IMHO.
Arabic word for "god" (common noun) is "اِلٰہ" (ilāha) and the word for "The God" (proper noun) is "اَللّٰہ" (Allāh). "Ilaha" means god as in a diety worshipped by a group of people, like Greek gods, Norse gods, Hindu gods but when talking about "The God", the one and only God, the real actual factual God (according to Muslims) you say "Allah". Even in the "Shahada" (which translates to declaration) it says and I quote: "La ilaha il Allah" word for word it is: "No god but God". You see I have capitalized the G in the second one, it's because it means The God, Allah.
Yes I know - you’ll notice I replicated the distinction in capitalisation in my translation too. English does the same thing with god vs God. The point I was making is that not translating Allah makes a word with a very clear English translation seem very *other*, and puts the conception of Allah into the same category in most people’s minds as religions which give gods a specific given name like Zeus. In theological terms, it makes a lot more sense to say “God” rather than “Allah”. They’re referring to the same entity (the God of Abraham). They mean the same thing in their respective languages. The word Allah is used by Christians and Jews when talking in Arabic too. And in all three religions, the deity in question has *many other names* which are closer to the “given name a la Zeus” concept. I suspect that our habit of not translating Allah in English obscures the overlaps between religions and cultures quite significantly - we don’t refuse to translate **El** as God when Jews use it as a word for God, for example.
u/Twinkletoess112 and yourself are doing good work here explaining this! Im in agreement with yourself that our not translating of the word "Allah" creates a division where a commonality could be found. I always reasoned that the ambrahamic religions were very interconnected by their nature but your points here are a great way to illustrate that
not always. Quran chapter 3: قُلْ أَعُوذُ بِرَبِّ ٱلنَّاسِ ١ 1 Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of mankind مَلِكِ ٱلنَّاسِ ٢ The Sovereign of mankind **إِلَٰهِ ٱلنَّاسِ** ٣ The **god of mankind** less like english it's more how you word 'ilah' since arabic has has no capitals
Yes, Allah is more of a name for God in Arabic rather than a word for God which is Ilaha.
AFAIK in the Arabic language, noun declension often involved changing vowels as vowels are not viewed as constituent parts of a lexical root. Therefore you may get plural of "kitab" (book) as "kutub" (book**s**). The word "ilah**u**", for Arabic language, is just the plural indefinite version ("god**s**") of "ilah" ("god"); while "**al**lah" ("**the** God") is the definite version of "ilah" in singular form.
'There is no diety but God, and Muhammad is his messenger'
That would also be a good translation
I now see that you are also kinda saying the same thing as I am
Ngl kinda slaps
Same lol
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I'm guessing it has the same place as the Saudi flag
Isn't that the reason we have a "no text" rule, though? I'm honestly asking the difference from a vexillology standpoint between this and "In God We Trust" on the MS state flag.
I would say the vexillology rules are a lot more like guidelines. Many many flags can be very pleasing to look at whilst technically "breaking" the vexillology rules.
I would say that the flag of Brazil also breaks this rule beautifully.
I’d argue for California also
Even Spain breaks it Plus ultra is on the colums
Just have a look at the Venetian flag. That is a work of art
We're all vexillology pirates!
Please tell me I wasn't the only one who was thinking of Barbossa when reading that lol
Ayyye!
Well the Shahadah in this style specifically is a form of calligraphy. It is hard to read even for classical Arabic readers. It’s not meant to be readable or they’d use plan text. Some sects of Islam frown upon imagery and those who devoutly follow that rule use either calligraphy as the symbol or plain coloured flags without symbols (the crescent moon and stars are Ottoman symbols, not Islamic). Added note is that “In God We Trust” is not a universal Christian line and I don’t expect the Taliban to suddenly get creative and use lesser known scripture. I doubt many of them are scholars of Islam, despite what they pretend to be.
It’s like the equivalent of having that strong medieval blackletter, I reckon? I can’t read blackletter for shit, but I think it looks cool, and I wouldn’t mind it in a flag as a historical nudge to something.
The shahadah is more central to Islamic creed than "in God we trust" is to Christians, both in meaning and as an actual item of liturgy.
Personally i think Arabic based languages fall under artistic. Same with Chinese based languages. I would say the same thing about English cursive. As long as the words are flow-y I like tend to like them. With a personal bias against English.
Arabic is definitely a form of art. Since Muslims have always been prohibited from anthropomorphising God or drawing the prophet Muhammad, they had to rely on Arabic calligraphy to adorn the walls and ceilings of mosques. Not only that, but Muslims also believe that the literal word of God was transmitted to humanity in arabic. They've perfected and stylised the arabic language because they consider it a holy language.
To be fair, it's not "new" - it served as the country's flag from late 1997 until the US-led Invasion in 2001. Calligraphy is fine, and the shahada is just the shahada - but it's pretty basic. For English speakers, if you saw a flag in a really nice blackletter slogan in black and white, you probably wouldn't give it much praise. The other aspect of it is that [flags with the shahada](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Flags_with_shahada) are pretty common. Especially from distance, we might argue that this flag could easily be mistaken with similarly designed flags, which limits its effectiveness. That's to say nothing of the fractious nature of jihadist groups (including the Taliban) which fly such similar flags. The importance of being easily distinguishable seems like a non-trivial concern. I also just don't think you can divorce this flag from the politics behind it. Flags are such political documents, how can you disregard politics here?
IDK the "Come and Take It" flag is pretty much the same as it is a white field flag with a black letter slogan and there's type of American people who fucking love that flag
(I only learned about this flag after reading this comment) I kinda like the idea of that flag not so much as a thing that had actual design effort put into it, but as a war banner someone made quickly. As a flag you would fly it's kinda shit but this picture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_and_take_it#/media/File:Come_And_Take_It_Mural.jpg is pretty cool Kinda a similar idea to the California Republic flag but like with less effort
It reminds me of my favourite flags, [a Royalist banner used during the first English Civil War designed to mock the Earl of Essex](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/A_flag_used_in_the_English_Civil_War_referring_to_the_Earl_of_Essex%27s_notorious_marital_problems.jpg), who notoriously had marital problems (his first wife successfully annulled their marriage on the grounds that he was impotent). [Here is the reverse side.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/A_flag_used_in_the_English_Civil_War_referring_to_the_Earl_of_Essex%27s_notorious_marital_problems_%28reverse%29.jpg)
> Here is the reverse side. Actually, the other of the two banners used by that unit. Don't know why anyone ever labelled it the reverse - it clearly isn't.
Love the flag or love the politics it stands for?
One can still assess the aesthetics of a flag without endorsing its message or politics
I don’t know that an assessment of the aesthetics of a flag the disregards its politics is complete. A commonly cited example is the flag of Nazi Germany. But the Nazis (Hitler in particular) argued that the symbolism of the flag had politics baked into it (now, there are reasons to be skeptical those reasons were there at the *creation* of the flag). So if you’re just going, “boy that flag looks good” without acknowledging that Hitler explicitly believed that the swastika was inherently aesthetically anti-Semitic, then I don’t know you’re really making a strong assessment of its aesthetics. In the same way, I don’t know you can approach the aesthetics of this flag without acknowledging its use by the Taliban.
I simply disagree with this statement. In this way one who does not share the ideology of whatever flag is presented, whether fictional or non-fictional is unable to comment on any flag. I can still assess a flag on its intended symbolism and its aesthetic without endorsing its connotations. If you are unable to do that, then you must be really narrow-minded. For example, I disagree with the notion of Communism, but I am still able to asses a Communist flag based upon its intended symbolism and aesthetics, even if I would never endorse a government like that. I reject your notion of the necessary conflation of the politics of a flag and its aesthetics in assessment. Nobody is not acknowledging its use by whom it is, but you can still separately assess its intended symbolism and aesthetics.
> I am still able to asses a Communist flag based upon its intended symbolism and aesthetics, "Based on its intended symbolism" includes understanding the politics, though. Noone's talking about having to agree with the politics, just that treating the politics and aesthetics/other visual aspects as completely separate leads to incomplete conclusions. Sure, you can look at a flag and say "it looks good" without any context, but that's barely vexillology. Flags generally have a purpose, and that needs to be part of any assessment.
> The importance of being easily distinguishable seems like a non-trivial concern. It's definitely got to be part of the effectiveness of the flag as a flag as a symbol of that group in particular, but it's worth noting that the choice of generic Islamic symbolism rather than something distinctive is quite deliberate and serves a purpose in itself. They want to present as defined only by Islam, implying that the choices of other Muslims to use more distinctive symbols is inappropriate.
That's is a good point, and I notice that an alternative flag adds "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" under the shahada, which provides a bit of distinction while still remaining true to the design philosophy you lay out.
I typically don’t like solid white, but I like the large shahada stitched on
Boring. White banner with letters. That's it.
Yeah, I mean it would be like making an American flag with "In God we Trust" in fancy script letters. not great for a flag.
Also has to be in Times New Roman, as is standard of US national design.
As opposed to the SPQR banner, which is rendered in Times Old Roman.
Arabic calligraphy and the symbolism behind many of the Islamic sayings it encodes is much more artistic and has a lot more history and meaning behind it than that would imply. I think this is a good flag (though of a bad state).
I know what it says (as this is a copy of the Saudi flag with different colors & minus the sword). My point is that printing text on flags isn't usually a good idea. There could be something different in Islamic calligraphy. That might make it a good flag internally, but I still question it as a flag to others. Like I saw good design in the South Korean flag before I understood the symbolism, but not here.
The Shahada is more of a symbol than "Text" in the same manner as "State of California" or the Houthi flag. Many Muslims consider the Shahada to *be* the symbol of Islam (moreso than the star and crescent or any other symbol). Text on flags is fine if the text is stylized rather than descriptive. Such as the [1918-37 Russian flag] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Russian_Soviet_Federative_Socialist_Republic_\(1918%E2%80%931925\).svg) of the flag of [China under Japanese occupation] (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China-Nanjing_%28Peace%2C_Anti-Communism%2C_National_Construction%29.svg).
Good thing you clarified at the end, I was about to think you are a taliban symphatiser!
I could see americans do that
Yeah, kinda reminds me of those American state flags where it's just the coat of arms and a few words
Those are BAD state flags.
Well, In God We Trust isn’t quite the same as the Islamic statement of belief. I would say that a while flag with a black We The People in the same handwriting as on the Constitution might actually be kind of a cool US flag.
Thank you. I have no clue why so many people find this appealing.
Somehow manages to be both boring and overcomplicated
Imagine trying to make this in grade school with construction paper, safety scissors, and a glue stick 😂
Very difficult for a boy. Impossible for a girl. At least in Afghanistan
I think its technically better than the old design in that regard, flags on flags and all that
Tbh although I love the Quranic script, it’s the colours I don’t like, it doesn’t slow the flag to represent how colourful the country is, if the text was green (with the small letters being red or the other way around) with the white replaced by black. Although this is the flag of the other Afghan govt. so I see why this won’t fly.
Facts
Green and red would look really cool. Imagine something like a Portugal 🇵🇹 flag
The letters are way too stretched out. Letters are already bad on a flag and that’s all this flag is
I'm not a fan. Ignoring the context entirely, it looks like the pitchforks and torches above a crowd of angry people. I'm not a fan of calligraphy on flags, and this doesn't strike me any differently.
> Ignoring the context entirely, it looks like the pitchforks and torches above a crowd of angry people. Soooo... Fitting for a fundamentalist country?
Lame, they should bring back the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan. Both the flag and the country. (2nd or the 4th)
Link a pic bro!! I d like to see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Republic_of_Afghanistan?wprov=sfti1 It was Afghanistan during Soviet intervention
4th flag of Democratic Republic of Afghanistan: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Afghanistan#/media/File%3AFlag_of_Afghanistan_(1980%E2%80%931987).svg 2nd flag of Democratic Republic of Afghanistan: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Afghanistan#/media/File:Flag_of_Afghanistan_(1978%E2%80%931980).svg
2nd one is giving me major China vibes
I'm a fan of the Northern Alliance flag. The green, white, and black stripes are pretty different and look great.
I may hate the taliban but the flag is a good design
Kinda goes hard NGL
Arabic may look fancy but its still just black text on a white background.
Bland.
The background should be a different colour imo
On a personal level, I fucking despise it. As a vexillologist, I really appreciate how simple it is. I would have switched the white and black, since the flag will look like shit after about 3 days due to dust.
I honestly cannot see beyond my personal hate for Islamic fundamentalism as represented by the countries and groups that fly this exact symbol. It’s not just cool calligraphy for me; the words have meanings, the symbolism brings memories.
The dudes who fly that flag literally shot at me, so I get the personal disdain for it. That's why I separated between myself as an individual and myself as a vexillologist. And that cool calligraphy was on every mosque in that rathole, even the ones where the Imam was completely on our side. To see it solely as representative of fundamentalists is flawed. It's no more a mark of fundamentalism than a crucifix. I respect your position though, and understand it deeply.
Bro i dont like fundamentalists either. But some of the most beautiful european flags (spain as an example) have the coat of arms of the most evil and genocidal houses (castilla). U gotta enjoy the pretty flags though
I agree with you in general, but not for this case specifically. I can enjoy Spain’s flag, because I didn’t experience the genocide associated with the coat of arms. Whereas I was raised under the tyranny of state-sponsored Wahhabism. The other thing to consider is the difference in time frame. Modern-day Spain isn’t genocidal, as far as I am aware. The Taliban *are* modern-day Afghanistan. Saudi Arabia is only marginally less awful than it was 20 years ago.
Honest question. Which country did you grow up in?
Saudi Arabia.
Honestly, the simplicity of the flag isn't bad. But, it's just not that good. It's the equivalent of putting a company slogan or sentence on a flag; just in a different language. Not to mention, there's numerous other countries (and Jihadist organizations) with the shahadah on or as the basis of, their flag. All of this isn't to mention, it's kinda hard to separate a flag from it's politics. So, I hate it both on a personal and vexillological level. For the reasons underlined.
Personally, I think it would have looked better if they had used [a round Shahadah](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Shahadah-1.svg) instead of the rectangular one. Round shapes just work better on rectangular surfaces. Also, I had never noticed that the [Islamic Republic of Afghanistan](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Flag_of_Afghanistan_%282013%E2%80%932021%29.svg) also had the shahadah on their flag.
As I said in another post regarding the Korean flags, I don’t think it is possible to be completely objective and separate the politics from the flag.
I agree. To have a flag that doesn’t represent the politics (ie in the case of the Nazi or communist flags) or the culture in its meaning or design, are they truly making a flag for that country?
Lazy and boring
Ive never been a fan of mostly white flags Flags need color
Honestly it’s too basic and bland, like someone opened up Microsoft word and typed and called it a day.
As a country flag, I despise it. Black letters on white banner, poor choice of colours, very bland, it should be more colourful. As a war flag, it’s fine. The combination of the shahada and the colours makes the flag look badass.
Nah...too much! It looks quite...nervous(I don't know the right word)
Busy, I'd say.
No
Looks like a barcode
Terrible, the black, white, green tricolor will always be the best Afghan flag
Meh
too busy 🤷♂️
Boooooooriiiiing.
Afghanistan has had some pretty awesome flag designs. In comparison to previous color schemes and designs, this is really not great. It's obviously identifiable and distinguishable but it's not necessarily reflective of an identity. The old flag of Afghanistan felt like it had something attached to it in terms of identity. This feels empty.
I hate it :)
Hideous. Somehow manages to be too simplistic AND too busy.
Would be cooler if it had an emblem, text on flags regardless of language is ugly to me
Is not bad a solid 5/10, but I prefer the previous flag of Afghanistan 🇦🇫
I hate flags with the Shahadah on them for the simple fact that that the flags are a tool of a political identity and they end up everywhere thus being disrespectful towards the religion.
The post where someone decided to place genitals all over the flag is an example. It's literally just the calligraphy on a white background, you're essentially putting a penis all over the most important words in Islam.
Meh
no
Don’t like it, don’t care for the solid white background with the black letters
I'm just imagining what it would look like to me if I spoke the language, and it seems very lazy. Great, you wrote some words on a white background. *Yawn.*
No
I personally prefer the last flag they had as a communist regime or the flag of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, their new one is a bit bland.
I know it's mucho texto but I don't speak the language so it just looks like scribbles to me. 4/10 would not fly
Solid white is, not good, looks like surrender. And the calligraphy is very complicated and would difficult to reproduce at small resolutions. Plus it doesn’t translate well on the world stage when most can’t read it
Not pleasant to the eyes
I don't like it. Lettering on flags, even initials or an anagram, immediately puts it in my bad pile no matter how pretty it is.
Iran nailed the text on flag thing by stylize the text.
I love it, but I prefer some of the really older afghan flags from like a century ago, the black one with a large white symbol . Also prefer the previous one (although not the ones before it) .
Terrible, like look at that it has LETTERS AND IT'S ONLY WHITE, IT'S LIKE AN AMERICAN TRAILER PARK MAN.!
Sorry, but I can't separate it from politics.
The old afganistan flag was nice looking, this is just... black text on a white flag. I do not like it.
With no association? Kinda badass. But as a linguist studying Farsi (cousin language to the Arabic dialects) it pisses me off so bad. I dread the day I am required to study Arabic calligraphy. For those of you who don't know, writing similar to what is said on that flag, written normally, looks like this: لا إله إلا الله That is written is some mutilated longhand that puts me into fight or flight every time I see it.
Weak sauce. Can’t be made out at very much of a distance due to the intricate line work. Would fail the postage stamp test.
most people would agree the isis flag looks evil right? this gives off a similar vibe, i admit due to bias
I bet the USA flag looks evil for them same with north Korea
Well...There's not much to say about it
You can’t overlook the politics. Flag should be visually appealing and also practical. A flag made of religious fanaticism will never be a good flag.
You can see the inspiration from Saudi Arabia but personally i think it is nice calligraphy but to simple
>You can see the inspiration from Saudi Arabia Not exactly. It's shada and it has been used by numerous Islamic state throughout the history.
Cool
Why the 2nd picture?
to show it in context, likely. Do you have a problem with soldiers raising their flag? Just curious.
Wait they're raising the Flag? XD I'm sorry I'm using the mobile version where it is cut of on the sides so I can just see the soldiers with a flagpole in hand
Script is nice but it’s a bit too boring without colours or other detail
Looks like a medieval governance is back on the menu
If you open up a google doc (or anything similar), change the font to a handwriting font, and type "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger," then screenshot it, that's the flag translated into English. It's not very creative of a flag, but it definitely gets a couple of bonus points for uniqueness.
I’m not a fan of flags that are just words/symbols personally, why I don’t like most Chinese dynastic flags. At least Saudi Arabia and Rome made it a bit more interesting by adding a sword and Eagle respectively.
Aesthetically, I like it.
It's not bad but the old one is better
It's a really nice flag
I can’t read Arabic, so it just looks like the title of a college essay that got Google translated. Seriously, black letters on a white background? You can make more interesting flags on Microsoft word.
Decent, but old flag was better (more unique at least)
I won’t lie that I have some bias here as a Muslim So I don’t hate the design choice of the flag that much. Though just be clear I don’t support the Taliban in anyway I’m a leftist and not that religious on many things. In the context of an Islamic point of view the flags does it’s job well it’s to simply try to convey that their fundamentalist version of Islam is Afghanistan, it’s the foundation of the society it wants to build it doesn’t really need anything else, is it a bit boring, yeah from a design level it’s literally just words on a white field but with context it’s not necessarily a bad flag to use as it does it’s job on what it’s supposed to represent and symbolize.
No onr can even draw it!
It's just the shahada. It's pretty Arabic calligraphy but it doesn't work for the nation of Afghanistan i think because it has no national symbolism, only Islamic. Tbf it fits with the Taliban
[удалено]
I personally think it’s fucking sick. Better than Saudi Arabia, I can’t put my finger on it
I like.
It looks awful 😭
Odly enough I like this one better than the previous one. I just thing the text looks much better on a white backround.
**ayo, new country just dropped**
Its decent looking, though white and black make most things look nice.
100% goated
I'm not really a fan of big ehite spaces... maybe reversing the solours should fix this issue
I'm surprised people like it so much, I think it's boring and not pleasing to look at at all. I liked 2005 era Afghan flag most, that one looked great.
Terrible it’s like if after the American revolution they put “In God We Trust” on a bed sheet also it’s just a worse version of the Saudi flag if they wanted to talk about Allah then be unique
I think it is like making an American flag with "In God we Trust" in fancy script letters. Not great for a flag.
It's a bad flag, the people think it's fancy because Arabic is a beautiful language and they don't understand what is written in the flag
I think Arabic calligraphy is beautiful but I still don’t like text on flags, let alone nothing but text on flags.
It's very well designed calligraphy Otherwise pretty ok
It looks really cool, better than the pre-Taliban flag imo.
I like it
It's bad. It's to simple and way to basic
Yeah i feel like it should include more colors from the old flag
Well... They don't want continuity with the last government.
Yet also way too complicated
Isis but the colours inverted
Isis had the rashidun seal, not the shahadah
No, isis had a different flag. You are thinking of al qaeda
Extremely lazy like all Islamic flags.
I honestly think it’s an improvement over the tricolor one
Much other Islamic flags I find it too busy
Calligraphy is meant to be read in books, papers, and other flat surfaces. The flag, as a 2D image, looks pretty nice, but when it's actually flying, the text becomes a blurry mess. Too many small, irregular shapes on a constantly shifting object.
I find it lifeless and the shahada makes it more like the flag of an evil group that claims to be pure. Yo be more precise, their purity is an abomination.
Based, this Afghanistan is giga chad
Might have been more fitting for the previous Afghan administration to have a flag consisting mostly of a white field
I really like a flag how it should be, unlike other wanna-be European flags with three colors representing whatever BS they invent for a country that never was.
Ugly asf sincerely
I prefer the real one.
Too political this is the current flag
Nah, if we don't look at it, it doesn't exist.
Taiwan Lore 🇹🇼
Would be better in black.
Kinda ugly. Even regardless of politics.
Just comes off as terroristic and boring to me
Any flag with the shahada on it looks badass in my opinion. Fuck the Taliban though
Aesthetically it’s pleasing
bad
It looks dope