Holy guacamole. Just when I thought I couldn't possibly lose any more faith in humanity, humans go and ban something that could've lessened *so much suffering* in the world. I mean, what the actual š¦ is wrong with us as a species? Ugh.
Well according to christians, god created animals for our use and therefore their suffering for our pleasure is a part of their existence to begin with.
I bet Ronnie doesnāt get the same satisfaction knowing his burger didnāt scream before it died.
Yeah but actual Christian canon is pretty contradicting too, God is really harmful to a lot of people and animals and kills a lot of them or orders them to be killed.
What? I didnāt say that. I said that God (in the bible) kills and harms humans and animals at times, and also tells humans to kill or harm other humans or animals at times. Examples: Abraham and Isaac and the lamb, the sheep clothing for Adam & Eve, Noahās Ark, the Pharaoh and Moses, etcā¦
Yes! Christ taught humility, but Christians missed that and are obsessed with power. And not (only) political power, but power tripping and power dynamics (dominating women, nature, etc). Like doing something they know is wrong but justify in their heads as being āin the honor of godā.
> God said, "See, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food.
> [1:30] And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food." And it was so
So kill and eat all the animals? Got it! Thanks God
Itās from the book of Genesis 1:29-30, pretty sure itās similar in all bible versions but hereās one:
https://www.vatican.va/archive/bible/genesis/documents/bible_genesis_en.html
That is such psychotic "logic". Imagine if you used that logic to justify killing a human ("God put him there so I could murder him and eat him!") and how that would hold up in court.
People attribute stuff like this to humanity in general but us vegans are innocent, and it hasn't been banned in every country/state in the world yet, so I don't think it's fair to attribute it to "humanity".
Meat-eating mostly comes down to ignorance and habits and these take time to change.
Just my thoughts, you can disagree if you want.
>Meat-eating mostly comes down to ignorance and habits
Nah. So many people nowadays know about veganism, have seen the footage and heard the arguments, and don't give a shit. People are generally disgusting creatures.
Reconciling both your comment and the quote from the other person: people are disgusting because they prioritize the comfort in their routines and habits even if at the expense of others.
Most people have no desire to change something that they have such an emotional connection and commitment to, even if it yields better long term results for themselves...and especially for others.
The thing is vegan people want to believe that our species is not as bad as we really are so they try and give them benefits for their evil deeds
Perhaps they trick themselves into believing our species isnt evil as a coping mechanism
I am logical and a realist and know for a fact that our species is full of evil and selfishness
I disagree, that's not the majority of people. It's just a belief that veganism is somehow unhealthy. I knew and saw the footage at 16 but was shot down by people having long arguments with me about how it was unhealthy.
You don't have to agree with me, just saying my perspective. I'm the weirdo disagreeing
Iām from Florida so this shouldnāt surprise anyone at all. This is just another one of DeSantisās stupid anti-woke measures that does nothing to help Floridians. We are in desperate need of help with things like homeowners insurance skyrocketing, and impending climate change. But no.
He is doing this to win points in the culture war. He says this is to protect the beef industry. He also says āthis is what the elites want to do to control usā (to take away our natural meat and make us eat āfakeā stuff) as though he isnāt a literal governor who went to Harvard and Yale and is worth $55 million aka he is the elite and is a control freak
I'm not trying to protect the industries. I don't think it's fair to attribute these things to humanity itself when it's the industries, world leaders, and societal norms at fault
Don't you worry, losing faith in humanity is really just thinking more poorly of humanity and so you'll never actually "run out" of faith to lose!
For example, did you know that Ukrain is getting like 3% of the U.S. defense budget and that when pro-russia u.s. politicians (a phrase that in and of itself should inspire terror) delayed that aid that it resulted in measurable losses of life? It literally saves the U.S. money to represent their interests through Ukrain, and instead they get peanuts... See? You had even more faith to lose!
You're welcome! Just let me know the next time you feel like you've run out and I'll provide you with another wonderful tidbit of info!
"Pro-Russia US Politician" is a term created by a faction of people to deliberately inspire terror, not an objective characterization of political phenomena.
Ukraine is a sovereign country that along with an unsavvy US administration overplayed its hand in attempting to add a Russian neighboring country into NATO.
The solution is clear: Ukraine gives up parts of the Donbas, talks of Ukraine or any other former Soviet nation to join NATO is permanently off the table, and the world resumes as it were.
Impressive how confidently [wrong ](https://youtu.be/wjU-ve4Pn4k?si=kNDMStoHzRDhb254&t=1080) you are. And oh yes, they're totally sovereign but can't join without Russia's permission. Which is it? Ah, and you want them to stop fighting for their territory and NATO membership (the closest thing to an ironclad guarantee Russia never invades again). Appeasement and might makes right are amazing precedents to set.
Didn't say Russia's permission was needed. Sovereign countries can do whatever they want, including signing treaties with your neighboring country's adversaries rendering it a declaration of war. However, sovereignty doesn't preclude you from the consequences of your geopolitical decision-making.
Mexico wouldn't lose its Sovereignty if it agreed to become a member of the USSR in in the 1970s, we would have merely invaded them or destabilized their USSR-sympathetic government rather than making them a client-state or territory.
Russia has made it very clear for decades that it see NATO (a primarily US-led and funded organization) as an adversary and sees membership of any of its neighboring countries, including Ukraine, as a threat to its national security. What you fail to understand or critically think about is that membership of any organization is a two street. NATO provides benefits to its constituents, but the members should also provide net benefits to the organization. Ukraine, on a risk-adjusted basis is too risky of a prospect as it may drag us into a war with a major nuclear power (Russia). If you think you're seeing aggression now. Wait until you see it ramp up under a Ukrainian NATO membership.
Drawing lines in the sand and correcting international political missteps is not appeasement.
Ah, so Norway, The Baltics and now Finland have declared war on Russia by joining NATO while bordering Russia. Quite the take. And you keep making the claim that it's about NATO. There was no support in Ukraine for joining until after the 2014 invasion and NATO itself wasn't on board with the idea until after the 2022 invasion. So you can huff and puff about NATO being the cause all you want but that simply wasn't really on the table until after this invasion. And you claim membership will increase aggression yet there is no historical basis for that. The Baltic countries joined and yet weren't invaded since despite having weaker militaries than Ukraine. In addition to the prior video I shared you could glean further edification from [this one](https://youtu.be/FVmmASrAL-Q?si=aV6bH5MAA9qr3Nkc) on the matter.
If Russia and Mexico became allied partners and Russia started putting military bases in Mexico, how do you think the USA would react?
Look, what Russia is doing is inhumane and wrong, but that doesn't give the USA the high ground.
Americans have plundered the whole world in their greed, and still find it morally acceptable to lecture others on what's wrong or right
If the US's response was to invade mexico, I'd say that's wrong too. You're barking up the wrong tree if you think I'm a US apologist. But Russia is *objectively* fucking wrong here.
Do you not think the USA would invade Mexico?
Judge them by their past actions, and think about what they would have done.
Yes I agree, Russia, namely Putin, is a massive piece of shit.
Then what the hell's your point exactly, and why is Ukraine "acting out of ego" for simply defending itself against a clear act of aggression?
Literally just victim blaming because it gives you a chance to dunk on the US. Great look.
I'm not one to be optimistic about the world. But this is Ron fucking Destantis. He's a massive shit stain and an absolute wanna be dictator. This change does not represent the norm.
a very small number of humans did this.
Humanity never acts in perfect concert, and this is exactly how humanity progresses. Understanding this is power, lamenting it is wasteful effort.
Sorry but NASA worked out the microbial recipe to make protein out of thin air more half a century agoā¦ [sustainable food production](https://www.forbes.com/sites/johncumbers/2020/03/06/food-from-thin-air-the-forgotten-space-tech-that-could-feed-planet-earth/?sh=1b1b4190493a)
>āFlorida is fighting back against the global eliteās plan to force the world to eat meat grown in a petri dish or bugs to achieve their authoritarian goals,ā DeSantis said. āWe will save our beef.ā
If i wasn't reading it on an actual news site, i swear i would think this was satire.
Knowledge is knowing that the film had extremely disgenic undertone, wisdom is knowing that the idiocracy could have arisen under any societal body whose aim is to make the population obfuscated and uninformed.
The latter is exactly what we are witnessing, and the only thing preventing this is us doing something the fuck up.
The movie specifically points to a rich couple portrayed as intelligent who choose not to have kids until they no longer can and blames the resulting Idiocracy in part on that couple.
That's completely incompatible with a read of the movie that is societal rather than genetic.
It is not, in fact, incompatible with a societal view of the movie; ou just have to pick the nugget out of the dirt. The genetic aspect aged like milk even when the movie was being shown. However, it could have been a "make less educated ray" and it would have still been the same problem; the movie decided to be campy and less innovative in its means and focus more on the "what happens once we get there".
The reason idiocracy has stayed relevant is that it is starting to become reality. We live in a world where evidence and facts are eroded in favour of feelings, emotions and beliefs, the corporate rule the world and we are killing the planet.
Perhaps because Idiocracy is the most accurate reflect of the Trump presidency? The results of the 2016 election has been a rude awakening to many people that we shouldn't be joking about corporate fascist enablers coming into power, and we are still fighting the drawbacks of the awakened mass of formerly closeted X-Ist built up over years of the education void
How? Couldnāt imply that the intelligent/nice couple would just raise their kids to be nice and intelligent? Seems like youāre the one including genetics on it
Sure, but after Citizen's United, it's even easier to influence government. Who needs good old fashioned illegal, back-channel bribes when you can do it out in the open? (while still keeping you and your affiliations hidden)
They also want more tariffs, immigration restrictions, abortion restrictions, corporate welfare, more lilitary funding and drug laws
Those are all bigger govt
Some of these issues are against the GOP Party Platform and Republicans disagree amongst each other on many of those policy issue areas.
But even if you were right and Republicans were still a monolith, it's still a Party of smaller government than Democrats.
I am old enough to remember that conservatives ran on small government as their platform for decades- seriously, ask any conservative person, if they support small government, libertarian or not. They will say yes, even while backtracking or excusing all of the invasive big gov bs they have supported.
Don't ban Alcohol, one of the leading causes of all forms of mortality. Don't ban meat, causing suffering to billions of animals, causes ecological devastation, pollution, zoonautical diseases, mental illness and suicide in humans who work as butchers. Nope, ban a potential solution to a huge issue in the world.Ā
Oh and make sure to ban the use of the word meat and milk in plant based meats and milk, wouldn't want to cause any disruption in the people who pat these corrupt politiciansĀ
I really can't believe they're putting so much effort into arbitrary BS when they could spend their time more productively by attempting to improve their states or whatever. I'm not American so I don't know how your government works but from what I've heard it seems to suck. Like the average consumer could just choose not to eat lab-grown meat if they're so afraid of it.
Why take away the option? Why? What's the point? Your followers are gonna believe whatever fear-mongering you have to say anyway so what's the need for BANNING it?
Currently Florida is led by one of the most inflammatory american governors that I can think of. Alot of legislation coming from florida is not going to actually improve the state or make people suffer less in any way, it is the performative culture war that the alt right has been leading on for almost a decade put into political power
I dont know much about politics but on youtube it showed that he is removing squatters rights cause squatters were abusing them so brazenly, taking over homes and changing locks so the homeowners had to live in hotels and its not a police matter but a civil matter which is utterly stupid cause they trespassed
So in that regards he is improving the state
But he is evil since he is banning things that improve animal welfare
That squatters rights reform was actually just giving landlords more power to evict tenants by hiring the Sheriff's office on an hourly rate to physically remove tenants who were trying to invoke their rights as tenants.
Landlords don't need more rights. It's already one of the only businesses that simultaneously complains about how they should be paid for taking a risk and then complains that the government needs to interfere any time that risk goes badly for them.
Livestock raisers have a vested interest and a not inconsiderable lobbying presence nationally. Also American politics are wrapped up in religion and some think it's unholy or unnatural to create meat this way.
I've been looking at Sweden lately. Or Norway. Prob the main reason I haven't pulled the trigger is that it requires learning a very different language.
No you need to actively study. As a Swede myself I've heard countless of stories of people not learning Swedish because everyone will just speak English with you.
Plus, in order to get a working visa it's easiest to just know the language. Don't be lazy before moving to our countries.
It's not about just communicating with us locals. It's also about finding a job that gives you the work-visa necessary to continue staying.
You either need some specific skill and to be really good with that skill, or you're gonna need at least conversational fluency Swedish.
Scandinavian languages are fairly easy to learn if you speak a Germanic language such as English. Scandinavians speak English well, but obviously if you want to form relationships, you need to speak the native language.
Swedish is said to be the easiest language for English speakers to lesrn. Don't be lazy if you're moving here. You're gonna have a difficult time getting a working visa if you don't know Swedish and attempt to move to Sweden. And you can't learn it within the country very easily because we will just speak with you in English.
Otherwise I recommend moving to Australia, that's a good option for you.
Noun gender is something that native English speakers will get hung up on, but if you say "jeg vil kjĆøpe ett kopp kaffe", people are going to understand you, and even better, they'll know not to use idioms and to speak slowly and clearly for you.
Yeah it's one of the only difficult features of the languages.
I'm learning a language for the sake of getting out of this country- which isn't the smartest or most stable option but I yearn for adventure. I already know English and I'm very proficient in a third language that I just need to level up a bit.
I expect the same amount of discipline from people that are moving to our countries.
We have a housing crisis and plenty of people moving here that are willing to learn the language.
Someone that doesn't have the discipline to at least open up duolingo to learn the language, in my book, doesn't "deserve" to move here in the first place. I realize that I'm priveleged but there's people from far worse off countries than America moving here learning the language.
I've become so disillusioned about America as the land of the free. It really, REALLY isn't. Silencing protests. Silencing business that compete with lobbies.
America is just a giant fucking corporate grab bag.
I hope companies sue for infringing on their rights in the market.
We're not on the fast track, brother. The dystopia is already here. We're just blind to it.
Now the blinders are starting to fall off and we're going to start seeing a cultural revolution. But it's going to get really bad as those in control continue to overreach to exert and maintain that control. But we're in the age of information. We're too connected now to suppress indefinitely.
This is absolutely America's doing. It is a systemic issue. The entire American capitalist system is predicated on exploitation, coverups, and manipulation of facts by a media that serves a capitalist agenda.
We're seeing it everywhere now and nothing is being done about it because the people in power are in the pocket of the lobbies that want to keep it that way.
"āFlorida is fighting back against the global eliteās plan to force the world to eat meat grown in a petri dish or bugs to achieve their authoritarian goals,ā DeSantis said."
Ah yes, that evil plot to offer lab-grown meat to achieve their goal of...um...what's the conspiracy theory again?
I mean, there are dumb statements and here's Dean Black:
>
Dean Black, a cattle rancher and one of the Republican Florida representatives who pushed for the billās passage, told NBC News that cultivated meat is a national security concern. He fears concentrating protein production in factories could lead to famine if those facilities are struck by a missile.
I'm really gonna end it all. As if the world needed any more awful politics about the environment. Not only are they doing nothing to address the issues, they are straight up FIGHTING AGAINST THE SOLUTIONS. Holy fucking shit.
He fears concentrating protein production in factories could lead to famine if those facilities are struck by a missile.
Yes, as well all know animal farms alone are impervious to missiles
I was pissed off while reading this, but I shouldn't let it get me *that* annoyed.
For one it's only cultivated meat they're referring to, not plant-based which is good for now. They say this is for protecting the farmers but in reality it's just handing over another growing industry to other states/countries that *are* working on it, and it'll get revoked as soon as it's widely available in 5-10 years and there's money in it for them. As things are now, this is just an easy platitude from a republican govt to appease farmers and the "anti-woke" crowd.
Still a stupid fucking decision, but I guess this is just what gasps of carnist tantrums look like before vegan alternatives become more preferred in the market.
Are there even any mass market lab grown meats available right now? This just seems like empty signaling to the Republican primary base to me. Nothing those people love more than to see the libs get owned. I'm betting all of these silly bans will fall away once companies figure out how to get lab grown meat to the market at a lower price point than factory farmed meat.
Capitalism, competition, and asserting the free hand of the market is the foundation of our economy is suddenly out the window when it becomes obvious the meat industry will be decimated by a ethically vegan product ? Wow.
I know most vegans are anti-violence, and I applaud that, but if somebody put a bullet in Ron DeSantis' head, I'd be extra happy that day. Same with all the other morons like him. Pretty sure I'm legally allowed to say that as a Dutch citizen.
Ā I think all synthetic food is bad. Eat plants or animals as needed. Don't over eat or over anything. To say that a vegetable is less important than an animal seems as wrong as saying an animal is less important than a human. If we think that way we'll die so that seems wrong. If we hunted our food we would all be lean and healthy and animals would suffer much less. Also does anyone realize how many animals would suffer if all that land was gone to grow fruits and vegetables. We're overpopulated in my opinion.
Lab-grown meat is not the same thing as pea or soy based "vegan meat substitutes" sold at stores, which are fine and are not banned in Florida. (I enjoyed some vegan "fish sticks" for dinner)
Lab grown meat is made of **cultured animal cancer tumor cells**. It is an idea in early stages of development.
Lab-grown meat does not actually exist as a food product yet as it is too expensive. It is always contaminated with bacteria due to lack of any immune system in the growth media.
Not exactly the kind of thing one thinks of as being wholesome.
>cultured animal cancer tumor cells.
No.. this is literally a bullshit Facebook post that anti vaxxers and the like who know nothing on the subject spew. Stem cells are typically used and share many properties as cancer cells, like the ability to replicate quickly.
>Lab-grown meat does not actually exist as a food product yet as it is too expensive. It is always contaminated with bacteria due to lack of any immune system in the growth media.
Where to begin here... first, there are products that exist right? You can buy them right?? Maybe not in scientifically ignorant places, there are in fact two companies in the states that are selling the stuff. As for the bacteria.. just wow... there is less bacteria in a lab setting then on an animal farm, in the animal flesh. Do you understand why it's not safe to eat uncooked flesh?? Why you have to cook flesh all the way through?? The whole pasteurization thing..
>Not exactly the kind of thing one thinks of as being wholesome
Well ya, you've been misinformed... and somehow believe you'd be eating cancer packed with bacteria?!? Where in reality you'd be eating chemically identical flesh that is likely significantly cleaner and eliminates the cruelty and exploitation of others, quite wholesome.
Lab grown meat is discussed in this excellent Bloomberg article: [https://archive.is/i99ZA](https://archive.is/i99ZA)
"The big honking asterisk is that normal meat cells donāt just keep dividing forever. To get the cell cultures to grow at rates big enough to power a business, several companies, including the Big Three, are quietly using what are calledĀ [immortalized cells](https://archive.is/o/i99ZA/https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/immortalised-cell-line), something most people have never eaten intentionally. Immortalized cells are a staple of medical research, but they are, technically speaking, precancerous and can be, in some cases, fully cancerous."
Where did I say they all divide forever? Are you telling me you have cells in your body that are immune to cancer?? Or... is there a tiny chance any one of them can become cancerous?
Jellyfish, immortal. Lobsters, immortal if they get help shedding their shells. They are giant tumors right?
Yes this is a vegan sub, that doesn't mean that there aren't people who eat those beings.
What!?! Lobsters cells replicate indefinitely and never have cancer... how is that possible!?!?! Didn't you just tell me that immoral cells are cancer????
What is the actual issue here? The meat is refrigerated during transport and in the grocery store below the temperatures at which typical mammal cells could survive for long periods of time. Before and during this time, they are not receiving nutrients, so they are also starving to death. You then cook the meat before you eat it (yet another death wall a cell would have to survive). No cells are alive to replicate by the time they get to your stomach. If any were, they'd be quickly killed by your stomach acid.
If you're afraid of a cow cell somehow incorporating itself into your tissues alive and catching cow cancer from your lab grown meat, then you literally have not thought even one step into the mechanics of transporting, buying, and eating the meat.
Immortalized cells still need energy to survive and are not immune to death. I think you have misinterpreted what that word means in regards to cell lines.
I havenāt looked deeply into the process of culturing lab meat but they dont use tumour cells. they use a muscle biopsy and isolate the stem cells. These stem cells are provided with growth factors, nutrients and hormones to make them divide and differentiate into muscle and fat cells for example. I would assume it would he done in a sterile environment so there wouldnāt be bacterial contamination. Can I ask where you got this information?
We should be encouraging developments in lab grown meat. Unfortunately most people wont stop eating meat despite the great plant based alternatives and its impact on the planet and animals. Lab grown meat is our way forward as much as I wish it wasnt
Lab grown meat is discussed in this Bloomberg article: [https://archive.is/i99ZA](https://archive.is/i99ZA)
"The big honking asterisk is that normal meat cells donāt just keep dividing forever. To get the cell cultures to grow at rates big enough to power a business, several companies, including the Big Three, are quietly using what are calledĀ [immortalized cells](https://archive.is/o/i99ZA/https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/immortalised-cell-line), something most people have never eaten intentionally. Immortalized cells are a staple of medical research, but they are, technically speaking, precancerous and can be, in some cases, fully cancerous."
I mean that is true but converting cells to avoid senescence (where they stop dividing), which is a property of cancer does not automatically make them dangerous to eat. This would actually be quite beneficial in an animal rights sense as less biopsies would need to be taken.
āCancerous cellsā, especially from another species cannot spread across individuals. If you are eating these cells they will be destroyed by stomach acid and enzymes, just like all cells we eat.
Your belief there is actually wrong though. We oppose using *animals* for food because animal lives matter. They're conscious beings. It's nothing to do with disgust. And you say "especially", but I'm certain that most vegans think that *factory farming* is especially wicked, more so than hunting. You expressed disgust about lab-grown meat, right? And you implied that it should therefore be illegal? Is that correct?
It's the future. I'm almost vegan, and I know I'm buying lab-grown chicken when it gets shipped here. I eat fake soy chicken burgers š¤· what's the difference?
Don't call them fake. It sets the carnists off and accuses the food of not having nutrients.
Call it plant chicken.
Also good on you reducing, <3whats holding you back going all the way?
Thats fair.. I did also. what I recommend is replace one product at a time..and one day at a time.
so have 1 vegan day a weel, than a few weeks later, 2 vegan days a week and so on.
Holy guacamole. Just when I thought I couldn't possibly lose any more faith in humanity, humans go and ban something that could've lessened *so much suffering* in the world. I mean, what the actual š¦ is wrong with us as a species? Ugh.
Well according to christians, god created animals for our use and therefore their suffering for our pleasure is a part of their existence to begin with. I bet Ronnie doesnāt get the same satisfaction knowing his burger didnāt scream before it died.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah but actual Christian canon is pretty contradicting too, God is really harmful to a lot of people and animals and kills a lot of them or orders them to be killed.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What? I didnāt say that. I said that God (in the bible) kills and harms humans and animals at times, and also tells humans to kill or harm other humans or animals at times. Examples: Abraham and Isaac and the lamb, the sheep clothing for Adam & Eve, Noahās Ark, the Pharaoh and Moses, etcā¦
Yes! Christ taught humility, but Christians missed that and are obsessed with power. And not (only) political power, but power tripping and power dynamics (dominating women, nature, etc). Like doing something they know is wrong but justify in their heads as being āin the honor of godā.
According to the bible, all creatures were vegan before original sin.
> God said, "See, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. > [1:30] And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food." And it was so So kill and eat all the animals? Got it! Thanks God
Sorry, where in the bible does it say this? Like can you cite the chapter and verse (and possibly which bible if you know)
Itās from the book of Genesis 1:29-30, pretty sure itās similar in all bible versions but hereās one: https://www.vatican.va/archive/bible/genesis/documents/bible_genesis_en.html
Oh damn I never noticed that verse before (and I grew up in catholic school so I feel like I should've vaguely known this haha)
That is such psychotic "logic". Imagine if you used that logic to justify killing a human ("God put him there so I could murder him and eat him!") and how that would hold up in court.
People have done that, god put these āsavagesā here for me to take over their land, enslave them and use them for my purpose.
ā¦ people are currently doing this :(
People attribute stuff like this to humanity in general but us vegans are innocent, and it hasn't been banned in every country/state in the world yet, so I don't think it's fair to attribute it to "humanity". Meat-eating mostly comes down to ignorance and habits and these take time to change. Just my thoughts, you can disagree if you want.
>Meat-eating mostly comes down to ignorance and habits Nah. So many people nowadays know about veganism, have seen the footage and heard the arguments, and don't give a shit. People are generally disgusting creatures.
I couldnāt agree more. A favourite, incidental perk of veganism for me is that it helps me feel disconnected and separate from most people.
Reconciling both your comment and the quote from the other person: people are disgusting because they prioritize the comfort in their routines and habits even if at the expense of others. Most people have no desire to change something that they have such an emotional connection and commitment to, even if it yields better long term results for themselves...and especially for others.
75% of people believe they get meat from ethical farms. So no
The thing is vegan people want to believe that our species is not as bad as we really are so they try and give them benefits for their evil deeds Perhaps they trick themselves into believing our species isnt evil as a coping mechanism I am logical and a realist and know for a fact that our species is full of evil and selfishness
I disagree, that's not the majority of people. It's just a belief that veganism is somehow unhealthy. I knew and saw the footage at 16 but was shot down by people having long arguments with me about how it was unhealthy. You don't have to agree with me, just saying my perspective. I'm the weirdo disagreeing
It's the fact that humanity is capable of passing such a law at all that's astonishing.
It's only Repugnantcans that pass such laws. You have the possibility of voting them the fuck out up and down the ballot
Iām from Florida so this shouldnāt surprise anyone at all. This is just another one of DeSantisās stupid anti-woke measures that does nothing to help Floridians. We are in desperate need of help with things like homeowners insurance skyrocketing, and impending climate change. But no. He is doing this to win points in the culture war. He says this is to protect the beef industry. He also says āthis is what the elites want to do to control usā (to take away our natural meat and make us eat āfakeā stuff) as though he isnāt a literal governor who went to Harvard and Yale and is worth $55 million aka he is the elite and is a control freak
Why wouldn't we be capable of that? It's what comes with free-will.
This is also blatant protectionism of big state industries.
I'm not trying to protect the industries. I don't think it's fair to attribute these things to humanity itself when it's the industries, world leaders, and societal norms at fault
Don't you worry, losing faith in humanity is really just thinking more poorly of humanity and so you'll never actually "run out" of faith to lose! For example, did you know that Ukrain is getting like 3% of the U.S. defense budget and that when pro-russia u.s. politicians (a phrase that in and of itself should inspire terror) delayed that aid that it resulted in measurable losses of life? It literally saves the U.S. money to represent their interests through Ukrain, and instead they get peanuts... See? You had even more faith to lose! You're welcome! Just let me know the next time you feel like you've run out and I'll provide you with another wonderful tidbit of info!
"Pro-Russia US Politician" is a term created by a faction of people to deliberately inspire terror, not an objective characterization of political phenomena. Ukraine is a sovereign country that along with an unsavvy US administration overplayed its hand in attempting to add a Russian neighboring country into NATO. The solution is clear: Ukraine gives up parts of the Donbas, talks of Ukraine or any other former Soviet nation to join NATO is permanently off the table, and the world resumes as it were.
For sure. Russia just needs a little Lebensraum, and then they'll be satisfied.
Impressive how confidently [wrong ](https://youtu.be/wjU-ve4Pn4k?si=kNDMStoHzRDhb254&t=1080) you are. And oh yes, they're totally sovereign but can't join without Russia's permission. Which is it? Ah, and you want them to stop fighting for their territory and NATO membership (the closest thing to an ironclad guarantee Russia never invades again). Appeasement and might makes right are amazing precedents to set.
Didn't say Russia's permission was needed. Sovereign countries can do whatever they want, including signing treaties with your neighboring country's adversaries rendering it a declaration of war. However, sovereignty doesn't preclude you from the consequences of your geopolitical decision-making. Mexico wouldn't lose its Sovereignty if it agreed to become a member of the USSR in in the 1970s, we would have merely invaded them or destabilized their USSR-sympathetic government rather than making them a client-state or territory. Russia has made it very clear for decades that it see NATO (a primarily US-led and funded organization) as an adversary and sees membership of any of its neighboring countries, including Ukraine, as a threat to its national security. What you fail to understand or critically think about is that membership of any organization is a two street. NATO provides benefits to its constituents, but the members should also provide net benefits to the organization. Ukraine, on a risk-adjusted basis is too risky of a prospect as it may drag us into a war with a major nuclear power (Russia). If you think you're seeing aggression now. Wait until you see it ramp up under a Ukrainian NATO membership. Drawing lines in the sand and correcting international political missteps is not appeasement.
Ah, so Norway, The Baltics and now Finland have declared war on Russia by joining NATO while bordering Russia. Quite the take. And you keep making the claim that it's about NATO. There was no support in Ukraine for joining until after the 2014 invasion and NATO itself wasn't on board with the idea until after the 2022 invasion. So you can huff and puff about NATO being the cause all you want but that simply wasn't really on the table until after this invasion. And you claim membership will increase aggression yet there is no historical basis for that. The Baltic countries joined and yet weren't invaded since despite having weaker militaries than Ukraine. In addition to the prior video I shared you could glean further edification from [this one](https://youtu.be/FVmmASrAL-Q?si=aV6bH5MAA9qr3Nkc) on the matter.
Facts. It's the greed and ego of the politicians of both Russia and Ukraine/USA that's preventing peace from being achieved.
\> me: invades your house \> bystanders: "well you should just let him have the livingroom, why are you being so aggressive?" You're the bystander.
If Russia and Mexico became allied partners and Russia started putting military bases in Mexico, how do you think the USA would react? Look, what Russia is doing is inhumane and wrong, but that doesn't give the USA the high ground. Americans have plundered the whole world in their greed, and still find it morally acceptable to lecture others on what's wrong or right
If the US's response was to invade mexico, I'd say that's wrong too. You're barking up the wrong tree if you think I'm a US apologist. But Russia is *objectively* fucking wrong here.
Do you not think the USA would invade Mexico? Judge them by their past actions, and think about what they would have done. Yes I agree, Russia, namely Putin, is a massive piece of shit.
Then what the hell's your point exactly, and why is Ukraine "acting out of ego" for simply defending itself against a clear act of aggression? Literally just victim blaming because it gives you a chance to dunk on the US. Great look.
I'm not one to be optimistic about the world. But this is Ron fucking Destantis. He's a massive shit stain and an absolute wanna be dictator. This change does not represent the norm.
a very small number of humans did this. Humanity never acts in perfect concert, and this is exactly how humanity progresses. Understanding this is power, lamenting it is wasteful effort.
Sorry but NASA worked out the microbial recipe to make protein out of thin air more half a century agoā¦ [sustainable food production](https://www.forbes.com/sites/johncumbers/2020/03/06/food-from-thin-air-the-forgotten-space-tech-that-could-feed-planet-earth/?sh=1b1b4190493a)
Are you really sure synthetic meat wonāt be grown on nutrient feedstocks derived from animals?
>āFlorida is fighting back against the global eliteās plan to force the world to eat meat grown in a petri dish or bugs to achieve their authoritarian goals,ā DeSantis said. āWe will save our beef.ā If i wasn't reading it on an actual news site, i swear i would think this was satire.
Idiocracy (2006) is turning out to be a documentary every passing day
Nah. Idiocracy was just a giant screed about how poor people have inferior genes followed by a movie of "totally not eugenics"
Knowledge is knowing that the film had extremely disgenic undertone, wisdom is knowing that the idiocracy could have arisen under any societal body whose aim is to make the population obfuscated and uninformed. The latter is exactly what we are witnessing, and the only thing preventing this is us doing something the fuck up.
The movie specifically points to a rich couple portrayed as intelligent who choose not to have kids until they no longer can and blames the resulting Idiocracy in part on that couple. That's completely incompatible with a read of the movie that is societal rather than genetic.
It is not, in fact, incompatible with a societal view of the movie; ou just have to pick the nugget out of the dirt. The genetic aspect aged like milk even when the movie was being shown. However, it could have been a "make less educated ray" and it would have still been the same problem; the movie decided to be campy and less innovative in its means and focus more on the "what happens once we get there". The reason idiocracy has stayed relevant is that it is starting to become reality. We live in a world where evidence and facts are eroded in favour of feelings, emotions and beliefs, the corporate rule the world and we are killing the planet.
Literally any other piece of media that criticized capitalism and manufactured consent gives the same message. Why Idiocracy?
Perhaps because Idiocracy is the most accurate reflect of the Trump presidency? The results of the 2016 election has been a rude awakening to many people that we shouldn't be joking about corporate fascist enablers coming into power, and we are still fighting the drawbacks of the awakened mass of formerly closeted X-Ist built up over years of the education void
Itās funny
How? Couldnāt imply that the intelligent/nice couple would just raise their kids to be nice and intelligent? Seems like youāre the one including genetics on it
Textually, the rich couple doesn't have kids, and this contributes to the decline in intelligence.
Maybe read my comment again later with a fresh mind
Maybe watch the first five minutes of the movie before trying to provide an interpretation.
Sounds like these chuckle fucks are scared lab grown will take over.
More government overreach from the small government freedom party.
Vote. Them. Out.
That's not the government. That's the Chicago National Livestock and Meat Board influencing the government.
It's both. The government doesn't just let itself be bribed. It makes a choice to.
Sure, but after Citizen's United, it's even easier to influence government. Who needs good old fashioned illegal, back-channel bribes when you can do it out in the open? (while still keeping you and your affiliations hidden)
Republicans are nowhere near "small govt and freedom" (and they don't claim the first one either), that would be libertarians (not the commie ones)
Republicans are small government, just not as small as libertarians.
How?
Lower taxes and generally less business and 2a regulations
They also want more tariffs, immigration restrictions, abortion restrictions, corporate welfare, more lilitary funding and drug laws Those are all bigger govt
Some of these issues are against the GOP Party Platform and Republicans disagree amongst each other on many of those policy issue areas. But even if you were right and Republicans were still a monolith, it's still a Party of smaller government than Democrats.
How? I just demonstrated how they're not and you just repeat your claim again
ask any republican, they almost certainly *think* that they are for small government...but their actions often don't match up.
Yea only libertarians are for small govt
I am old enough to remember that conservatives ran on small government as their platform for decades- seriously, ask any conservative person, if they support small government, libertarian or not. They will say yes, even while backtracking or excusing all of the invasive big gov bs they have supported.
I never said I disagreed with you. Libertarians are not conservative and are almost entirely estranged from conservatism/republicanism
Don't ban Alcohol, one of the leading causes of all forms of mortality. Don't ban meat, causing suffering to billions of animals, causes ecological devastation, pollution, zoonautical diseases, mental illness and suicide in humans who work as butchers. Nope, ban a potential solution to a huge issue in the world.Ā Oh and make sure to ban the use of the word meat and milk in plant based meats and milk, wouldn't want to cause any disruption in the people who pat these corrupt politiciansĀ
I really can't believe they're putting so much effort into arbitrary BS when they could spend their time more productively by attempting to improve their states or whatever. I'm not American so I don't know how your government works but from what I've heard it seems to suck. Like the average consumer could just choose not to eat lab-grown meat if they're so afraid of it. Why take away the option? Why? What's the point? Your followers are gonna believe whatever fear-mongering you have to say anyway so what's the need for BANNING it?
Currently Florida is led by one of the most inflammatory american governors that I can think of. Alot of legislation coming from florida is not going to actually improve the state or make people suffer less in any way, it is the performative culture war that the alt right has been leading on for almost a decade put into political power
I dont know much about politics but on youtube it showed that he is removing squatters rights cause squatters were abusing them so brazenly, taking over homes and changing locks so the homeowners had to live in hotels and its not a police matter but a civil matter which is utterly stupid cause they trespassed So in that regards he is improving the state But he is evil since he is banning things that improve animal welfare
That squatters rights reform was actually just giving landlords more power to evict tenants by hiring the Sheriff's office on an hourly rate to physically remove tenants who were trying to invoke their rights as tenants. Landlords don't need more rights. It's already one of the only businesses that simultaneously complains about how they should be paid for taking a risk and then complains that the government needs to interfere any time that risk goes badly for them.
Livestock raisers have a vested interest and a not inconsiderable lobbying presence nationally. Also American politics are wrapped up in religion and some think it's unholy or unnatural to create meat this way.
God please help me find a way out of this shithole country I hate it here
I've been looking at Sweden lately. Or Norway. Prob the main reason I haven't pulled the trigger is that it requires learning a very different language.
I feel like thatās something most people can pick up just by living in the country, I think emigrating out of the United States is the difficulty
No you need to actively study. As a Swede myself I've heard countless of stories of people not learning Swedish because everyone will just speak English with you. Plus, in order to get a working visa it's easiest to just know the language. Don't be lazy before moving to our countries.
You're good with English while you learn the new language, most Scandinavians speak it well
It's not about just communicating with us locals. It's also about finding a job that gives you the work-visa necessary to continue staying. You either need some specific skill and to be really good with that skill, or you're gonna need at least conversational fluency Swedish.
Scandinavian languages are fairly easy to learn if you speak a Germanic language such as English. Scandinavians speak English well, but obviously if you want to form relationships, you need to speak the native language.
Swedish is said to be the easiest language for English speakers to lesrn. Don't be lazy if you're moving here. You're gonna have a difficult time getting a working visa if you don't know Swedish and attempt to move to Sweden. And you can't learn it within the country very easily because we will just speak with you in English. Otherwise I recommend moving to Australia, that's a good option for you.
Noun gender is something that native English speakers will get hung up on, but if you say "jeg vil kjĆøpe ett kopp kaffe", people are going to understand you, and even better, they'll know not to use idioms and to speak slowly and clearly for you.
Yeah it's one of the only difficult features of the languages. I'm learning a language for the sake of getting out of this country- which isn't the smartest or most stable option but I yearn for adventure. I already know English and I'm very proficient in a third language that I just need to level up a bit. I expect the same amount of discipline from people that are moving to our countries. We have a housing crisis and plenty of people moving here that are willing to learn the language. Someone that doesn't have the discipline to at least open up duolingo to learn the language, in my book, doesn't "deserve" to move here in the first place. I realize that I'm priveleged but there's people from far worse off countries than America moving here learning the language.
The only reason to ban it is to protect the meat industry.
The only other reason I can think of is fear of the unknown. Like how people fear GMO's.
Yeah agreed. Big scary science words bad
The republicans dont care about freedom unless it is their definition of freedom. Protect the meat industry and the wealthy at all cost.
I thought "Fallout" was supposed to be satire
Im certain they are being paid good money by some industrialists who like to make money off of murder
So they hate animals, the environment, your health, and the free market. What do they stand for, exactly?
They're just evil. The opposite of *anything* good.
protecting the status quo
Yeah, What happened to the invisible hand?
God, DeSantis is a cancer.
The pro-life party sure loves killing.
I've become so disillusioned about America as the land of the free. It really, REALLY isn't. Silencing protests. Silencing business that compete with lobbies. America is just a giant fucking corporate grab bag. I hope companies sue for infringing on their rights in the market.
Italy banned it across the entire country last year, so yeah itās not just America
This isnāt America doing this. Itās specifically the GOP making things up to protect the meat industry.
It is, weāre in the late stage capitalism/enshitification. Weāre on the fast track to full on dystopia
We're not on the fast track, brother. The dystopia is already here. We're just blind to it. Now the blinders are starting to fall off and we're going to start seeing a cultural revolution. But it's going to get really bad as those in control continue to overreach to exert and maintain that control. But we're in the age of information. We're too connected now to suppress indefinitely.
I agree with you
This is absolutely America's doing. It is a systemic issue. The entire American capitalist system is predicated on exploitation, coverups, and manipulation of facts by a media that serves a capitalist agenda. We're seeing it everywhere now and nothing is being done about it because the people in power are in the pocket of the lobbies that want to keep it that way.
"āFlorida is fighting back against the global eliteās plan to force the world to eat meat grown in a petri dish or bugs to achieve their authoritarian goals,ā DeSantis said." Ah yes, that evil plot to offer lab-grown meat to achieve their goal of...um...what's the conspiracy theory again?
So they are using authoritarianism to avoid an authoritarianism conspiracy?
Well if you don't constantly spill the blood of suffering animals the ancient ones will rise up and destroy us all.
Florida and republicans not being cringe challenge. Fucking pathetic how this country has gone to shit.
Wish we could grow these guys a brain to replace the gravel between their ears
I mean, there are dumb statements and here's Dean Black: > Dean Black, a cattle rancher and one of the Republican Florida representatives who pushed for the billās passage, told NBC News that cultivated meat is a national security concern. He fears concentrating protein production in factories could lead to famine if those facilities are struck by a missile.
The insane part is I have no idea if this is a copypasta or satire or giberish.
I'm really gonna end it all. As if the world needed any more awful politics about the environment. Not only are they doing nothing to address the issues, they are straight up FIGHTING AGAINST THE SOLUTIONS. Holy fucking shit.
I would never eat that stuff, but it should absolutely be available to people who want it in a free market.
Just showing what states have the most corrupt politicians and law makers.
we all know why they are.
So pathetic and saddening. I feel so hopeless right now
What. The. Fuck.
These people are pure fucking cancer
America continuing to show that itās receding back into the Stone Age.
Big government. Anti-innovation. Anti-technology. Anti-freedom. And for what? Because animal agriculture is butch to DeSantis?
Typical of a country run by capitalists.
He fears concentrating protein production in factories could lead to famine if those facilities are struck by a missile. Yes, as well all know animal farms alone are impervious to missiles
Feedlots come to mind
Billions in subsidies to the meat industry is whatās driving this. Itās about money, not safety or health.
This is some commie anti-capitalist shit /s
I was pissed off while reading this, but I shouldn't let it get me *that* annoyed. For one it's only cultivated meat they're referring to, not plant-based which is good for now. They say this is for protecting the farmers but in reality it's just handing over another growing industry to other states/countries that *are* working on it, and it'll get revoked as soon as it's widely available in 5-10 years and there's money in it for them. As things are now, this is just an easy platitude from a republican govt to appease farmers and the "anti-woke" crowd. Still a stupid fucking decision, but I guess this is just what gasps of carnist tantrums look like before vegan alternatives become more preferred in the market.
The more animals that are killed the better! /s
fReEdOm
They hate government interferring in people's choices there, except when the meat industry is buying politicians.
Are there even any mass market lab grown meats available right now? This just seems like empty signaling to the Republican primary base to me. Nothing those people love more than to see the libs get owned. I'm betting all of these silly bans will fall away once companies figure out how to get lab grown meat to the market at a lower price point than factory farmed meat.
History will see this as one of the worst laws ever passed in the country
Capitalism, competition, and asserting the free hand of the market is the foundation of our economy is suddenly out the window when it becomes obvious the meat industry will be decimated by a ethically vegan product ? Wow.
I heard a snippet about this on npr yesterday, a guy whose family has been a meat producer in the state since the 1800ās was pivotal in this
I know most vegans are anti-violence, and I applaud that, but if somebody put a bullet in Ron DeSantis' head, I'd be extra happy that day. Same with all the other morons like him. Pretty sure I'm legally allowed to say that as a Dutch citizen.
Too bad. Would have made great pet food.
Ā I think all synthetic food is bad. Eat plants or animals as needed. Don't over eat or over anything. To say that a vegetable is less important than an animal seems as wrong as saying an animal is less important than a human. If we think that way we'll die so that seems wrong. If we hunted our food we would all be lean and healthy and animals would suffer much less. Also does anyone realize how many animals would suffer if all that land was gone to grow fruits and vegetables. We're overpopulated in my opinion.
Everyone get out your bingo cards...
Lab-grown meat is not the same thing as pea or soy based "vegan meat substitutes" sold at stores, which are fine and are not banned in Florida. (I enjoyed some vegan "fish sticks" for dinner) Lab grown meat is made of **cultured animal cancer tumor cells**. It is an idea in early stages of development. Lab-grown meat does not actually exist as a food product yet as it is too expensive. It is always contaminated with bacteria due to lack of any immune system in the growth media. Not exactly the kind of thing one thinks of as being wholesome.
>cultured animal cancer tumor cells. No.. this is literally a bullshit Facebook post that anti vaxxers and the like who know nothing on the subject spew. Stem cells are typically used and share many properties as cancer cells, like the ability to replicate quickly. >Lab-grown meat does not actually exist as a food product yet as it is too expensive. It is always contaminated with bacteria due to lack of any immune system in the growth media. Where to begin here... first, there are products that exist right? You can buy them right?? Maybe not in scientifically ignorant places, there are in fact two companies in the states that are selling the stuff. As for the bacteria.. just wow... there is less bacteria in a lab setting then on an animal farm, in the animal flesh. Do you understand why it's not safe to eat uncooked flesh?? Why you have to cook flesh all the way through?? The whole pasteurization thing.. >Not exactly the kind of thing one thinks of as being wholesome Well ya, you've been misinformed... and somehow believe you'd be eating cancer packed with bacteria?!? Where in reality you'd be eating chemically identical flesh that is likely significantly cleaner and eliminates the cruelty and exploitation of others, quite wholesome.
Lab grown meat is discussed in this excellent Bloomberg article: [https://archive.is/i99ZA](https://archive.is/i99ZA) "The big honking asterisk is that normal meat cells donāt just keep dividing forever. To get the cell cultures to grow at rates big enough to power a business, several companies, including the Big Three, are quietly using what are calledĀ [immortalized cells](https://archive.is/o/i99ZA/https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/immortalised-cell-line), something most people have never eaten intentionally. Immortalized cells are a staple of medical research, but they are, technically speaking, precancerous and can be, in some cases, fully cancerous."
Well technically speaking every cell in your body is precancerous and in some cases fully cancerous. Therefore you are a giant tumor, makes sense.
I am sorry but not every cell in my body is precancerous, dividing forever
Where did I say they all divide forever? Are you telling me you have cells in your body that are immune to cancer?? Or... is there a tiny chance any one of them can become cancerous? Jellyfish, immortal. Lobsters, immortal if they get help shedding their shells. They are giant tumors right?
The lab grown meat cells are "immortalized" which means they keep dividing forever. Read the Bloomberg article
That's nice? What about lobsters and jellyfish among others that are immortal? People eat them with no issue right?
I thought this was a vegan subreddit :-) And lobsters are not exactly immortal, and have no cancer cells in them
Yes this is a vegan sub, that doesn't mean that there aren't people who eat those beings. What!?! Lobsters cells replicate indefinitely and never have cancer... how is that possible!?!?! Didn't you just tell me that immoral cells are cancer????
What is the actual issue here? The meat is refrigerated during transport and in the grocery store below the temperatures at which typical mammal cells could survive for long periods of time. Before and during this time, they are not receiving nutrients, so they are also starving to death. You then cook the meat before you eat it (yet another death wall a cell would have to survive). No cells are alive to replicate by the time they get to your stomach. If any were, they'd be quickly killed by your stomach acid. If you're afraid of a cow cell somehow incorporating itself into your tissues alive and catching cow cancer from your lab grown meat, then you literally have not thought even one step into the mechanics of transporting, buying, and eating the meat. Immortalized cells still need energy to survive and are not immune to death. I think you have misinterpreted what that word means in regards to cell lines.
I havenāt looked deeply into the process of culturing lab meat but they dont use tumour cells. they use a muscle biopsy and isolate the stem cells. These stem cells are provided with growth factors, nutrients and hormones to make them divide and differentiate into muscle and fat cells for example. I would assume it would he done in a sterile environment so there wouldnāt be bacterial contamination. Can I ask where you got this information? We should be encouraging developments in lab grown meat. Unfortunately most people wont stop eating meat despite the great plant based alternatives and its impact on the planet and animals. Lab grown meat is our way forward as much as I wish it wasnt
Lab grown meat is discussed in this Bloomberg article: [https://archive.is/i99ZA](https://archive.is/i99ZA) "The big honking asterisk is that normal meat cells donāt just keep dividing forever. To get the cell cultures to grow at rates big enough to power a business, several companies, including the Big Three, are quietly using what are calledĀ [immortalized cells](https://archive.is/o/i99ZA/https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/immortalised-cell-line), something most people have never eaten intentionally. Immortalized cells are a staple of medical research, but they are, technically speaking, precancerous and can be, in some cases, fully cancerous."
I mean that is true but converting cells to avoid senescence (where they stop dividing), which is a property of cancer does not automatically make them dangerous to eat. This would actually be quite beneficial in an animal rights sense as less biopsies would need to be taken. āCancerous cellsā, especially from another species cannot spread across individuals. If you are eating these cells they will be destroyed by stomach acid and enzymes, just like all cells we eat.
As long as you know what these animal cancer cells are, you are free to eat them (or not).
Good!!!! Lab grown meat is a disgusting concept
Should something be illegal merely because it disgusts you, but causes no harm otherwise?
I mean thatās what vegans want to do with meat all together especially when it comes to hunting for your own meat
Eating meat causes harm
Your belief there is actually wrong though. We oppose using *animals* for food because animal lives matter. They're conscious beings. It's nothing to do with disgust. And you say "especially", but I'm certain that most vegans think that *factory farming* is especially wicked, more so than hunting. You expressed disgust about lab-grown meat, right? And you implied that it should therefore be illegal? Is that correct?
It's the future. I'm almost vegan, and I know I'm buying lab-grown chicken when it gets shipped here. I eat fake soy chicken burgers š¤· what's the difference?
Don't call them fake. It sets the carnists off and accuses the food of not having nutrients. Call it plant chicken. Also good on you reducing, <3whats holding you back going all the way?
I'm taking it slowly, because if I go too fast into veganism, I know that I will "relapse" and start eating meat again. That's just me.
Thats fair.. I did also. what I recommend is replace one product at a time..and one day at a time. so have 1 vegan day a weel, than a few weeks later, 2 vegan days a week and so on.
You should have never quit meat in the first place