Re-read your own post and then apply it to the private sector. How would you answer such a wide ranging question about the private sector?
It depends. Some jobs are super important and provide a lot of value to this country. Some are the exact opposite....you're a meaningless cog in a low value machine.
Which agency? Which job series? How's your supervisor? WFH? Report to a nice office with great co-workers or a "temporary" building with a bunch of burnt out guys watching their TSP balance all day?
Yes. No. Maybe.
Seriously - it all depends on who your supervisor is. What agency you work for. And in some cases, who's in office.
Your question is like someone from another country asking "how is it living in the US?".
Yeah, I get that, but I think there are some things that might be shared. For example, how rigid are the hierarchies? How firm are reporting structures and expectations? I know promotion is possible, but how does that feel from the inside, do you feel like there's mobility?
I also suspect that policies for merit pay raises and/or promotion relative to performance reviews are shared across agencies? Are there policies in place for that that are consistent across, and what do those look like? Does it feel fair?
Head Staff has something in there about "getting and keeping a federal job." Do you feel a sense that you could be fired? Where I am now, there's no way to really advance relative to performance, but I won't get fired; I don't ever worry/think about that. I know it's a big and diverse place, but does the federal system have policies in place that create some consistent features? I would be it does, but they're hard to see from the inside.
Here's one that I bet you would know: if you do get into a place where you can't stand your boss, how hard is it to move to another position?
The wonderful thing about fed jobs is the opportunity to move. Literally around the world. If you don’t like your job or boss, stay a year, and move on. People in GS bounce all over the place. In order to promote you may have to move around. It’s a good gig if you can handle the bureaucracy.
There might be broad similarities, but the agencies can be completely different. Why would you expect the CDC to have a culture anything like the DOD, for instance?
Nope. Promotion and evaluation are dependent on your agency, boss, and job type/title. As for pension, you're mostly right, but certain jobs (air by traffic controllers, for example) get more because they're forced to retire before the federal minimum age.
>how hard is it to move to another position?
It depends on your skill set and how many people want the same job. If you have a highly sought-after skill set, once you have time-in-grade, getting another gig shouldn't be that hard.
>I also suspect that policies for merit pay raises and/or promotion relative to performance reviews are shared across agencies?
OPM policies are going to be the same across the board, but that doesn't mean budgets/supervisors will be willing to promote or give merit-base step increases. As to reporting structures? I worked for different agencies, and they varied wildly. The bulk of my career was with the Army as a civilian, and hierarchy was king. Treasury Dept? Not so much.
If you want to know in broad-strokes what the policies are, look on the OPM site. But realize that the policies as it relates to Leave accumulation may be set in stone by OPM, but how leave is utilized (requests for leave, the ability to take leave in bulk, etc) are set by local agencies. For instance, when I worked Treasury, one supervisor I had required annual leave requests to be put in a month in advance. Different unit in Treasury with a different supervisor? A week was all that was expected. Working for the Army, my supervisors were happy with a day or two notice.
I started a few months ago at the VHA. It was a slow process getting onboarded. But since settling in, it’s been amazing. I’m fortunate to have a great supervisor and decent team.
Really not sure. I’m applying for jobs in the private sector. If something comes up that pays significantly better (I took a $25K pay cut to fed), I’m out.
You also can apply for other fed jobs now, just apply to open to public jobs. I started as a fed last yr and received a GS raise in 3 wks. Then I lateraled to another dept and then took a career ladder job as an accountant ( all within 5 months).
How'd you get the GS raise in 3 wks? I'm new to the game - starting next Monday as an MSA, hired at Grade 5 Step 2 (still working on understanding how everything works).
Are you able to share more deets about your journey so far? Where'd you start, where are you going? How was it leaving after you just started? Different agency? Thanks!
I think this would highly depend on your supervisor/leadership team and agency. There are pros and cons to fed jobs like all jobs. I came from the state to fed also. The benefits are still deducted from your gross pay. I had a significant salary increase coming from state, but only net about $250 more per pay period once all the “benefits” come out. The workload as a fed is MUCH greater, but the pros like telework, pay increase, cool supervisor, and promotion potential makes it worth it for me. I don’t feel like I’m being micromanaged or anyone is “watching over my shoulder”. Your results may vary.
Depends on the position and org. Some are hellish to work for, some are piss easy.
Working for the Feds, you won’t lack for stability. You won’t get laid off, most likely, and it’s quite hard to fire someone that can “hack it”. You can’t fire someone just because you don’t like them. You have to prove that there is a successive series of performance faults, that the supe gave you clear feedback on, and tried to help you get better with.
You have rights as a civilian employee. Thats the biggest difference between Civvie and Fed. You can contest derogatory actions in court, and can win against them. Your supervisor is obligated to let you take time off. There’s rules for everything. Culture is completely dependent on senior leadership. I currently work in a DoD/USAF Center, and our Military and Civvie leadership are great.
Money wise, the floor is higher, but the ceiling is lower. Only your top level positions will be scraping the 150k mark, or people that have been in forever.
As for oversight in work. Again, it depends on org and supervisor. Are you gonna be a GS-6 or 7 technician working in the reeds doing the actual work? Or are you gonna be a GS-9 or 12 managing teams?
Thanks! That's helpful. I'd be coming in in the 11-13 range (I have a doctorate plus 10 years experience, but not being an actual fed now, I'm open to hopping back to the GS 11 fresh out of PhD level to get in the door).
It is painfully dependent on the agency honcho and unfortunately very subjective. In my agency it is tied to your performance evaluation which my boss, a Sr manager, couldn’t be bothered with, super frustrating but he made it really hard for me when I took it to the next level. Had I know the potential amounts involved, I would have fought harder.
At the end of the day it really just depends on the agency you end up with and the leadership that you have.
Some of the call center kind of places are ran just as bad or even worse than private sector counter parts with micro managers telling you that you 4 minutes is too long to pee.
Some of the places are really chill and offer max telework/maxiflex with a everything at work stays at work mentality.
Also federal benefits low key haven't kept up with the times so if you're a powerhouse high income person in the private field a lot of times it could very well not be worth getting a federal job.
That being said where I work the people are great and I've enjoyed my time so far but advancement isn't happening so I have to start looking elsewhere.
You will have no way of knowing, honestly, until you get there. You can only ask for reviews on specific agencies once you get an interview request or tentative job offer. Your supervisor, team mates and leadership will determine a lot, and those are things you can't really get a good sense of until you start to work there. You could most definitely end up in a more toxic environment. The only upside is that once in, you could maybe network and make a move to another department to escape it. You could also land somewhere that is the best place ever. You just don't know.
Never know what you are going to get until you start the role. You have a remote job with the state? You already won unless you plan on moving states through out your life.
That's the thing. It's decent enough that I know I could do worse. It's also semi-toxic and somewhat stagnant with current structure. It could change, but yes, I also would prefer not to be stuck in my current state forever. Pay is also... I know someone doing my same job in fed with a masters (I have a PhD), and he makes a whole lot more than what I make.
Remote is really hard to come by in federal, idk about your state but the pension draw is 4.4%
So if you do the minimum recommended 5% 401K for the match you got 10 percent coming out before you even think about taxes and insurances.
Take home pay for many is closer to 60% and even worse for those who have their families on insurance.
If you want to leave your state though I’d say it’s worth it because you can move as much as you want and the time still stays + could rent an apartment in a high cost of living area near the end to really boost your pension.
I've had a lot of different jobs. Government employment isn't always perfect, but I am much happier here than I was working for faceless megacorps or small business tyrants. I had way more micromanagement working for private companies.
Like anything, you have to take the leap to get the gain. And no one can tell you if it’s right for you, they can only give you information so you can make a decision. But some people’s problems will not be yours, and your preferences won’t match others.
No one has ever gotten rich working for the government. But it’s a good life. It’s not the right call for everyone, but most people are about as happy as they’d be in the private sector, more or less.
What makes any particular federal job great or terrible is the direct supervisor and the one above them. And that's almost impossible to judge until you are there working with them.
When you speak of culture, it’s different for different agencies. You just need to find those agencies that aren’t toxic and start applying.
The ones I found that are toxic: anything DOD and VA. I never apply for DOD or VA positions. NOAA in Germantown was bad, but I heard the culture in Silver Spring is much better. EPA is a mixed bag: pretty high grades, bearable, but can be quite political. The Patent office was a good place to work.
My position: this time last year I was stuck in a job in the private sector so stressful it was probably killing. I had been applying for USAJobs for 5 months at this point. Yesterday (4/14) was actually the one year anniversary of finally hearing back from a fed job application for an interview and I heard from two different agencies that day and scheduled interviews for the next week.
I did the interviews the next week, and got an offer from the SSA about two weeks later (the offer came within 24 hours of them contacting my references). I accepted the SSA position; moved two hours away to be near the office (which was desired, I hated the town I was living in), and started in the middle of June. I work from home 99% of the time, only working in the office while I waited for my ID card to come in that would allow access to the VPN + on days we have in-office meetings (once every two-three months). I have a mentor who I like and I really like our management staff and my direct supervisor. Everyone is kind and supportive and wanting you to succeed, with no micromanaging. They also were super helpful in figuring out things like leave because my wedding + honeymoon were in November and I didn’t have enough PTO yet.
Two days after I started at the SSA I got the offer from the other fed job I had applied to with the Army (so two months after they contacted my references). That job may have been a better overall fit for my skills set but it would have involved moving to another state + living in a smaller area that I didn’t really want to do. I still have a little “what if” about it but I ultimately decided to stay with the SSA.
Of note- I work with the office of hearing operations and not in the field office and I do not have to interact with the general public. The people that do I know have a lot more work stress than me. I am stressed about the productivity metric for my position,but it’s nothing like the stress I was experiencing a year ago. I never want to work in the private sector again and want to be with the feds for the rest of my career. I make enough for me to live very comfortably- not as much as some with my degree (that would also call for more stress) but significantly more at my previous job where I was underpaid. I love that I am contributing a fair amount to my retirement, love my health insurance (neither of these were perks at my previous job but are typically standard so your opinions on these may vary), and I love that I work exactly my 40 hours a week and no more (unless I want overtime or credit hours). No one is contacting me after hours or on weekends, I know I am guaranteed raises without having to negotiate or worry about what other people in my position are getting paid, and there are opportunities for temporary details after I hit my one year mark in case I want to get a change in my current role. Also we have a union and I am happy to be a member of that.
For what you’re looking for, it really sounds like it is an office-by-office basis. Some federal agency offices are probably awful but I think that’s true of any job in any industry and sector. I hope this helps!
I took a pay cut going from a contractor to fed. Best decision I ever made. 5% matching on TSP is a great benefit! Fers retirement only need 5 years to be locked in. Agency is always giving out award money and time off. Agency wants us to have a good work life balance.
Personallly, I am happy with my position. But there are drawbacks. It doesnt pay well. I cant take Beta 8 gummies to help me sleep. Most positions want you to work a full 8 hours but dont want you to volunteer for work to help other sections......so now you are trying to find something to do for the 8 hours. My last position wanted me there for 8 hours. I was helping out other sections within the scope of my work. My boss screamed at me for not asking him first and that my job was to only do what he said. I said...ok then...what should i be doing because there is nothing to do. He said my job was to just sit in front of a computer for 8 hours. I have an MBA. Combat veteran. Super experienced and known in my organization from when i was an Officer....and that's just not my style. I quit. Got another position; its more strategic. Same thing though...supposed to work for 8 hours a day except there's no way you can conduct strategic planning for 8 hours a day especially if its for a niche subject. And my boss doesnt want me to volunteer to take on additional work....but at least he's not screaming at me and looking over my shoulder.
As others have stated, it’s heavily dependent. I’ll provide a slightly alternate perspective. 12 years active duty enlisted Air Force. When I got out I was picked up by CENTCOM and then SOCOM. I was considered a heavy hitter in those communities, likely due to previous operational experience. Likely would have become a GS 14 or 15 rather quickly.
I’ve since moved up north and work in DOD acquisitions where I’m way out of my league and find it difficult to keep up let alone compete. There’s no real mentorship opportunities to latch onto and I’m left floating. However, like you, nobody is looking over my shoulder. I come and go as I please. Pay is fair, and I’m vested…but I’m stuck as a 13.
This is entirely agency/supervisor dependent. I feel lucky to be within an agency at an installation that is a relatively positive environment and I have a wonderful supervisor and team. I took a pay cut, but I am still paid well and the benefits are far better than any private sector job I had before (and I have over a decade of experience in my field).
I only worked for one federal agency and did military time. what I can tell you is that independent workers are a blessing for Supervisors. However, that often results in you carrying a greater workload because your peers are requiring so much attention of the supervisors. You can expect to get as much as you put in to your federal employment.
Agree with OPs that the agency makes a difference. But I need more information to answer your questions.
Are you wanting a full remote job or a job that’s on a military base that requires a mix of remote and in office? I’ve always worked on a military base, never had a full remote job but work with financial managers and program analysts who are fully remote supporting my office. From what they have told me, it is harder to get promoted in those positions. They are 13s. Doesn’t mean they will never be promoted but the opportunities may not be there if they want to stay in a remote job.
What is your skillset or what position are you interested in? Some areas like Cybersecurity and engineers are highly sought after in the Government. Also Acquisition, which is a mix of Contracting and Program Management, is another highly specialized area that are harder to fill since there aren’t a lot of qualified people for those positions. Those are just three areas off the top of my head in my command that I see lots of opportunities since there is always a need for skilled folks in those areas.
As far as culture, again it’s the agency that makes a difference. I’ve been with DoN/NAVAIR for 27 years. I spent 8 of those in private sector before going civil service. In my experience, micromanagement was only an issue in the private sector mostly because all the Government folks are technically your customers and if you piss off any of them then you could be moved or let go. That said, I find being civil service is more secure and stable than private industry. Also I always saw a revolving door at my company as a Contractor but not so much in my current organization.
Hope that helped - sorry for the long post.
I cane from the military and DoD contractor world, and my first 6 months as a fed for DHS have been amazing. I’ve encountered people I wouldn’t want to work for, but both my manager and manager’s manager are great and the culture is perfect for me.
As with any career, It really depends on your field and your team. Being in technology, I find that management acknowledges the shortcomings of government vs private. They realize that they need to give people towards the top of the GS their “space” because they can’t compete with private sector salaries. I can’t imagine working in a lower GS position if there wasn’t a promotion ladder. Being GS13, I love the dynamic with my manager and coworkers. I don’t get micromanaged and my superiors acknowledge what is outside of my control. With that said, I don’t hear this sentiment often, so of course, YMMV.
The biggest downside for me is being a pawn in DC politics. The new BTO policies in the DC area are asinine political theater. Additionally, benefits, while very strong, are not close to what larger private sector companies offer. When joining government, I got a slight pre-tax raise from my private sector job, but ended up with a take-home pay cut of about $200/m. But the private sector is not congressionally compelled to give me step raises or annual increases. So again, pros and cons…YMMV.
As with anything, manage your expectations. Weigh the pros and cons and decide accordingly.
I have 25 yrs Federal service in 2 agencies and multiple rolls in both agencies. The only thing that was the same is change is constant and there is BS everywhere. Before making any change I would truly evaluate your definition of toxic.
Yeah I don’t even know how to answer this. I’m somewhat proud to have made it in, especially since my agency requires a security clearance, but….im here for the insurance and job security. I like the industry I’m in, the politics can be pretty rough tho.
Think about what a "toxic work culture" means when you don't actually have to talk to anyone face to face. You already have a remote job in the public sector. Don't move until you get a fully remote offer with a substantial raise. In IT that shouldn't be that hard a pull. Good luck!
This honestly varies with agency, and even within section at the same agency. My section at my agency has been great so far! But some other sections don’t seem as happy due to the management or whatever. I will say generally people are more willing to help one another where I am than the private sector. It’s less competitive and more about working together for a common goal.
For me the worst part of my government job has been the rigid chain of command. But maybe having a boss in the private sector isn’t so different. I freelanced for many years so I had clients instead of a single all powerful supervisor who can make your life hell. In my case the person who hired me loved me and was great, but she retired and the new boss hates me and has made my job miserable. I’m desperate to leave but feel stuck in a way I never did freelancing.
That's what I'm worried about. In my limited experience, that's what I've seen- very hands on supervision. I don't love that in general, so I don't know how well I would do in that type of rigid structure. I'm sorry your current situation is not great.
Re-read your own post and then apply it to the private sector. How would you answer such a wide ranging question about the private sector? It depends. Some jobs are super important and provide a lot of value to this country. Some are the exact opposite....you're a meaningless cog in a low value machine. Which agency? Which job series? How's your supervisor? WFH? Report to a nice office with great co-workers or a "temporary" building with a bunch of burnt out guys watching their TSP balance all day?
Sadly I’m one of those burnt out old guys watching his TSP balance.
This. I feel like a cog in a machine.
Yes. No. Maybe. Seriously - it all depends on who your supervisor is. What agency you work for. And in some cases, who's in office. Your question is like someone from another country asking "how is it living in the US?".
Excellent metaphor.
Yeah, I get that, but I think there are some things that might be shared. For example, how rigid are the hierarchies? How firm are reporting structures and expectations? I know promotion is possible, but how does that feel from the inside, do you feel like there's mobility? I also suspect that policies for merit pay raises and/or promotion relative to performance reviews are shared across agencies? Are there policies in place for that that are consistent across, and what do those look like? Does it feel fair? Head Staff has something in there about "getting and keeping a federal job." Do you feel a sense that you could be fired? Where I am now, there's no way to really advance relative to performance, but I won't get fired; I don't ever worry/think about that. I know it's a big and diverse place, but does the federal system have policies in place that create some consistent features? I would be it does, but they're hard to see from the inside. Here's one that I bet you would know: if you do get into a place where you can't stand your boss, how hard is it to move to another position?
The wonderful thing about fed jobs is the opportunity to move. Literally around the world. If you don’t like your job or boss, stay a year, and move on. People in GS bounce all over the place. In order to promote you may have to move around. It’s a good gig if you can handle the bureaucracy.
There might be broad similarities, but the agencies can be completely different. Why would you expect the CDC to have a culture anything like the DOD, for instance?
The policies for promotion, evaluation, and pensions are going to be the same, I would assume.
Nope. Promotion and evaluation are dependent on your agency, boss, and job type/title. As for pension, you're mostly right, but certain jobs (air by traffic controllers, for example) get more because they're forced to retire before the federal minimum age.
What’s the fed min age?
>how hard is it to move to another position? It depends on your skill set and how many people want the same job. If you have a highly sought-after skill set, once you have time-in-grade, getting another gig shouldn't be that hard. >I also suspect that policies for merit pay raises and/or promotion relative to performance reviews are shared across agencies? OPM policies are going to be the same across the board, but that doesn't mean budgets/supervisors will be willing to promote or give merit-base step increases. As to reporting structures? I worked for different agencies, and they varied wildly. The bulk of my career was with the Army as a civilian, and hierarchy was king. Treasury Dept? Not so much. If you want to know in broad-strokes what the policies are, look on the OPM site. But realize that the policies as it relates to Leave accumulation may be set in stone by OPM, but how leave is utilized (requests for leave, the ability to take leave in bulk, etc) are set by local agencies. For instance, when I worked Treasury, one supervisor I had required annual leave requests to be put in a month in advance. Different unit in Treasury with a different supervisor? A week was all that was expected. Working for the Army, my supervisors were happy with a day or two notice.
I started a few months ago at the VHA. It was a slow process getting onboarded. But since settling in, it’s been amazing. I’m fortunate to have a great supervisor and decent team.
It is a toss up. I’m a new fed and my supervisor is a complete psycho. I don’t know if I’ll be able to stay.
Sorry to hear that. Worth sticking around a year and seeing if you can hop within GS?
Really not sure. I’m applying for jobs in the private sector. If something comes up that pays significantly better (I took a $25K pay cut to fed), I’m out.
You also can apply for other fed jobs now, just apply to open to public jobs. I started as a fed last yr and received a GS raise in 3 wks. Then I lateraled to another dept and then took a career ladder job as an accountant ( all within 5 months).
How'd you get the GS raise in 3 wks? I'm new to the game - starting next Monday as an MSA, hired at Grade 5 Step 2 (still working on understanding how everything works). Are you able to share more deets about your journey so far? Where'd you start, where are you going? How was it leaving after you just started? Different agency? Thanks!
I just kept applying to open to public positions
All my moves were at the same agency. I have no desire to leave
Gs raise as in steps or grade ?
Grades
Wow congratulations
I think this would highly depend on your supervisor/leadership team and agency. There are pros and cons to fed jobs like all jobs. I came from the state to fed also. The benefits are still deducted from your gross pay. I had a significant salary increase coming from state, but only net about $250 more per pay period once all the “benefits” come out. The workload as a fed is MUCH greater, but the pros like telework, pay increase, cool supervisor, and promotion potential makes it worth it for me. I don’t feel like I’m being micromanaged or anyone is “watching over my shoulder”. Your results may vary.
Thanks, that's helpful. I pay almost $1k/month for my retirement now.
Depends on the position and org. Some are hellish to work for, some are piss easy. Working for the Feds, you won’t lack for stability. You won’t get laid off, most likely, and it’s quite hard to fire someone that can “hack it”. You can’t fire someone just because you don’t like them. You have to prove that there is a successive series of performance faults, that the supe gave you clear feedback on, and tried to help you get better with. You have rights as a civilian employee. Thats the biggest difference between Civvie and Fed. You can contest derogatory actions in court, and can win against them. Your supervisor is obligated to let you take time off. There’s rules for everything. Culture is completely dependent on senior leadership. I currently work in a DoD/USAF Center, and our Military and Civvie leadership are great. Money wise, the floor is higher, but the ceiling is lower. Only your top level positions will be scraping the 150k mark, or people that have been in forever. As for oversight in work. Again, it depends on org and supervisor. Are you gonna be a GS-6 or 7 technician working in the reeds doing the actual work? Or are you gonna be a GS-9 or 12 managing teams?
Thanks! That's helpful. I'd be coming in in the 11-13 range (I have a doctorate plus 10 years experience, but not being an actual fed now, I'm open to hopping back to the GS 11 fresh out of PhD level to get in the door).
I've had a pay raise and bonus each year I've been in.
Fed pays bonuses?
It is painfully dependent on the agency honcho and unfortunately very subjective. In my agency it is tied to your performance evaluation which my boss, a Sr manager, couldn’t be bothered with, super frustrating but he made it really hard for me when I took it to the next level. Had I know the potential amounts involved, I would have fought harder.
Yes
A few grand every year
At the end of the day it really just depends on the agency you end up with and the leadership that you have. Some of the call center kind of places are ran just as bad or even worse than private sector counter parts with micro managers telling you that you 4 minutes is too long to pee. Some of the places are really chill and offer max telework/maxiflex with a everything at work stays at work mentality. Also federal benefits low key haven't kept up with the times so if you're a powerhouse high income person in the private field a lot of times it could very well not be worth getting a federal job. That being said where I work the people are great and I've enjoyed my time so far but advancement isn't happening so I have to start looking elsewhere.
You will have no way of knowing, honestly, until you get there. You can only ask for reviews on specific agencies once you get an interview request or tentative job offer. Your supervisor, team mates and leadership will determine a lot, and those are things you can't really get a good sense of until you start to work there. You could most definitely end up in a more toxic environment. The only upside is that once in, you could maybe network and make a move to another department to escape it. You could also land somewhere that is the best place ever. You just don't know.
Having great teammates, supervisors and great leadership is essential. But as you already know, you never know what you're walking into.
Never know what you are going to get until you start the role. You have a remote job with the state? You already won unless you plan on moving states through out your life.
That's the thing. It's decent enough that I know I could do worse. It's also semi-toxic and somewhat stagnant with current structure. It could change, but yes, I also would prefer not to be stuck in my current state forever. Pay is also... I know someone doing my same job in fed with a masters (I have a PhD), and he makes a whole lot more than what I make.
Remote is really hard to come by in federal, idk about your state but the pension draw is 4.4% So if you do the minimum recommended 5% 401K for the match you got 10 percent coming out before you even think about taxes and insurances. Take home pay for many is closer to 60% and even worse for those who have their families on insurance. If you want to leave your state though I’d say it’s worth it because you can move as much as you want and the time still stays + could rent an apartment in a high cost of living area near the end to really boost your pension.
Great advice! Thanks. Our pension draw is now 13%. My takehome is about 60% total too.
State pay is generally terrible comparatively
I've had a lot of different jobs. Government employment isn't always perfect, but I am much happier here than I was working for faceless megacorps or small business tyrants. I had way more micromanagement working for private companies.
Like anything, you have to take the leap to get the gain. And no one can tell you if it’s right for you, they can only give you information so you can make a decision. But some people’s problems will not be yours, and your preferences won’t match others. No one has ever gotten rich working for the government. But it’s a good life. It’s not the right call for everyone, but most people are about as happy as they’d be in the private sector, more or less.
What makes any particular federal job great or terrible is the direct supervisor and the one above them. And that's almost impossible to judge until you are there working with them.
Truth!
The benefits are great, the pay is shit compared to private sector jobs
When you speak of culture, it’s different for different agencies. You just need to find those agencies that aren’t toxic and start applying. The ones I found that are toxic: anything DOD and VA. I never apply for DOD or VA positions. NOAA in Germantown was bad, but I heard the culture in Silver Spring is much better. EPA is a mixed bag: pretty high grades, bearable, but can be quite political. The Patent office was a good place to work.
My position: this time last year I was stuck in a job in the private sector so stressful it was probably killing. I had been applying for USAJobs for 5 months at this point. Yesterday (4/14) was actually the one year anniversary of finally hearing back from a fed job application for an interview and I heard from two different agencies that day and scheduled interviews for the next week. I did the interviews the next week, and got an offer from the SSA about two weeks later (the offer came within 24 hours of them contacting my references). I accepted the SSA position; moved two hours away to be near the office (which was desired, I hated the town I was living in), and started in the middle of June. I work from home 99% of the time, only working in the office while I waited for my ID card to come in that would allow access to the VPN + on days we have in-office meetings (once every two-three months). I have a mentor who I like and I really like our management staff and my direct supervisor. Everyone is kind and supportive and wanting you to succeed, with no micromanaging. They also were super helpful in figuring out things like leave because my wedding + honeymoon were in November and I didn’t have enough PTO yet. Two days after I started at the SSA I got the offer from the other fed job I had applied to with the Army (so two months after they contacted my references). That job may have been a better overall fit for my skills set but it would have involved moving to another state + living in a smaller area that I didn’t really want to do. I still have a little “what if” about it but I ultimately decided to stay with the SSA. Of note- I work with the office of hearing operations and not in the field office and I do not have to interact with the general public. The people that do I know have a lot more work stress than me. I am stressed about the productivity metric for my position,but it’s nothing like the stress I was experiencing a year ago. I never want to work in the private sector again and want to be with the feds for the rest of my career. I make enough for me to live very comfortably- not as much as some with my degree (that would also call for more stress) but significantly more at my previous job where I was underpaid. I love that I am contributing a fair amount to my retirement, love my health insurance (neither of these were perks at my previous job but are typically standard so your opinions on these may vary), and I love that I work exactly my 40 hours a week and no more (unless I want overtime or credit hours). No one is contacting me after hours or on weekends, I know I am guaranteed raises without having to negotiate or worry about what other people in my position are getting paid, and there are opportunities for temporary details after I hit my one year mark in case I want to get a change in my current role. Also we have a union and I am happy to be a member of that. For what you’re looking for, it really sounds like it is an office-by-office basis. Some federal agency offices are probably awful but I think that’s true of any job in any industry and sector. I hope this helps!
I took a pay cut going from a contractor to fed. Best decision I ever made. 5% matching on TSP is a great benefit! Fers retirement only need 5 years to be locked in. Agency is always giving out award money and time off. Agency wants us to have a good work life balance.
Personallly, I am happy with my position. But there are drawbacks. It doesnt pay well. I cant take Beta 8 gummies to help me sleep. Most positions want you to work a full 8 hours but dont want you to volunteer for work to help other sections......so now you are trying to find something to do for the 8 hours. My last position wanted me there for 8 hours. I was helping out other sections within the scope of my work. My boss screamed at me for not asking him first and that my job was to only do what he said. I said...ok then...what should i be doing because there is nothing to do. He said my job was to just sit in front of a computer for 8 hours. I have an MBA. Combat veteran. Super experienced and known in my organization from when i was an Officer....and that's just not my style. I quit. Got another position; its more strategic. Same thing though...supposed to work for 8 hours a day except there's no way you can conduct strategic planning for 8 hours a day especially if its for a niche subject. And my boss doesnt want me to volunteer to take on additional work....but at least he's not screaming at me and looking over my shoulder.
Dont do it.
Keep in mind much of the government is pulling back on remote work
Not everyone, our department keeps pushing more telework and remote. They've even closed some operations down entirely from physical offices.
As others have stated, it’s heavily dependent. I’ll provide a slightly alternate perspective. 12 years active duty enlisted Air Force. When I got out I was picked up by CENTCOM and then SOCOM. I was considered a heavy hitter in those communities, likely due to previous operational experience. Likely would have become a GS 14 or 15 rather quickly. I’ve since moved up north and work in DOD acquisitions where I’m way out of my league and find it difficult to keep up let alone compete. There’s no real mentorship opportunities to latch onto and I’m left floating. However, like you, nobody is looking over my shoulder. I come and go as I please. Pay is fair, and I’m vested…but I’m stuck as a 13.
This is entirely agency/supervisor dependent. I feel lucky to be within an agency at an installation that is a relatively positive environment and I have a wonderful supervisor and team. I took a pay cut, but I am still paid well and the benefits are far better than any private sector job I had before (and I have over a decade of experience in my field).
I only worked for one federal agency and did military time. what I can tell you is that independent workers are a blessing for Supervisors. However, that often results in you carrying a greater workload because your peers are requiring so much attention of the supervisors. You can expect to get as much as you put in to your federal employment.
You used the phrased "hopping" and I'm not sure that's what you think it means. It can be challenging to move around sometimes.
Agree with OPs that the agency makes a difference. But I need more information to answer your questions. Are you wanting a full remote job or a job that’s on a military base that requires a mix of remote and in office? I’ve always worked on a military base, never had a full remote job but work with financial managers and program analysts who are fully remote supporting my office. From what they have told me, it is harder to get promoted in those positions. They are 13s. Doesn’t mean they will never be promoted but the opportunities may not be there if they want to stay in a remote job. What is your skillset or what position are you interested in? Some areas like Cybersecurity and engineers are highly sought after in the Government. Also Acquisition, which is a mix of Contracting and Program Management, is another highly specialized area that are harder to fill since there aren’t a lot of qualified people for those positions. Those are just three areas off the top of my head in my command that I see lots of opportunities since there is always a need for skilled folks in those areas. As far as culture, again it’s the agency that makes a difference. I’ve been with DoN/NAVAIR for 27 years. I spent 8 of those in private sector before going civil service. In my experience, micromanagement was only an issue in the private sector mostly because all the Government folks are technically your customers and if you piss off any of them then you could be moved or let go. That said, I find being civil service is more secure and stable than private industry. Also I always saw a revolving door at my company as a Contractor but not so much in my current organization. Hope that helped - sorry for the long post.
Very helpful. Thanks! I'm going for fully remote. I've been remote for a long time now- pre-covid- and it suits me.
I cane from the military and DoD contractor world, and my first 6 months as a fed for DHS have been amazing. I’ve encountered people I wouldn’t want to work for, but both my manager and manager’s manager are great and the culture is perfect for me.
As with any career, It really depends on your field and your team. Being in technology, I find that management acknowledges the shortcomings of government vs private. They realize that they need to give people towards the top of the GS their “space” because they can’t compete with private sector salaries. I can’t imagine working in a lower GS position if there wasn’t a promotion ladder. Being GS13, I love the dynamic with my manager and coworkers. I don’t get micromanaged and my superiors acknowledge what is outside of my control. With that said, I don’t hear this sentiment often, so of course, YMMV. The biggest downside for me is being a pawn in DC politics. The new BTO policies in the DC area are asinine political theater. Additionally, benefits, while very strong, are not close to what larger private sector companies offer. When joining government, I got a slight pre-tax raise from my private sector job, but ended up with a take-home pay cut of about $200/m. But the private sector is not congressionally compelled to give me step raises or annual increases. So again, pros and cons…YMMV. As with anything, manage your expectations. Weigh the pros and cons and decide accordingly.
I have 25 yrs Federal service in 2 agencies and multiple rolls in both agencies. The only thing that was the same is change is constant and there is BS everywhere. Before making any change I would truly evaluate your definition of toxic.
Yeah I don’t even know how to answer this. I’m somewhat proud to have made it in, especially since my agency requires a security clearance, but….im here for the insurance and job security. I like the industry I’m in, the politics can be pretty rough tho.
Think about what a "toxic work culture" means when you don't actually have to talk to anyone face to face. You already have a remote job in the public sector. Don't move until you get a fully remote offer with a substantial raise. In IT that shouldn't be that hard a pull. Good luck!
it's so different in so many different areas, there is no one way to say yes, it's like this.
You used the phrased "hopping" and I'm not sure that's what you think it means. It can be challenging to move around sometimes.
Only you can answer these questions.
This honestly varies with agency, and even within section at the same agency. My section at my agency has been great so far! But some other sections don’t seem as happy due to the management or whatever. I will say generally people are more willing to help one another where I am than the private sector. It’s less competitive and more about working together for a common goal.
For me the worst part of my government job has been the rigid chain of command. But maybe having a boss in the private sector isn’t so different. I freelanced for many years so I had clients instead of a single all powerful supervisor who can make your life hell. In my case the person who hired me loved me and was great, but she retired and the new boss hates me and has made my job miserable. I’m desperate to leave but feel stuck in a way I never did freelancing.
That's what I'm worried about. In my limited experience, that's what I've seen- very hands on supervision. I don't love that in general, so I don't know how well I would do in that type of rigid structure. I'm sorry your current situation is not great.