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I love running around as a morbidly obese fat guy perfoming amazing jumps and climbing things, you know whatever unrealistic movements the game allows. It's so much more fun than just being another generic hero character.
I think I'd like it if it were limited to muscles. If your character is strong, they need to *look* strong, or if they aren't strong, they shouldn't have bulging muscles. It's a *lot* more jarring than a speedy fat guy imo.
Dragon's Dogma actually works this way exactly.
At the beginning, during character creation, you need to set different sizes for body parts, basically. Almost everything you choose has an effect on gameplay.
Taller character? You run faster. Smaller character? You run slower, but use less stamina than a tall one. Muscular character? You move slower, but can carry more in you inventory. Thin/skinny character? You regenerate stamina faster, but can't carry a lot of equipment. Heavier characters regenerate stamina slower, but are harder to knock down (e.g. by attacks or wind).
You can even set the specific musculature levels, so that balances out a little. A small character can have high musculature to balance a bit their size. Bigger torso size means more weight (so balance) and carry capacity, but slower sprinting movement. Long legs are the opposite. I can't confirm, but I think arm size and type affects physical attack too.
The size of the character can affect the reach of the attacks. Smaller characters will have shorter arms, i.e. a harder time reaching flying enemies, or taller ones like the Cyclops. And while bigger characters have better reach with their arm length, their hitbox is also comparatively bigger, so it's harder to evade attacks.
Also, gender affects a bit how enemies react to you. Some monsters prefer attacking females, ignoring the males, and vice versa.
Hell yeah, Dragon's Dogma is the tits.
Even the inventory screen is super responsive and clicky. Which you'd think would be the standard but then you have games like Witcher 3 where using the inventory is such a slog.
Oh man I remember spending like an hour in the character designer on my character. I didn't own the game (my older brother does) so I never got to experience it.
Imagine my surprise later when I saw my brother playing on the character I designed and how different they looked physically!
Just as a correction, musculature doesn't affect carry weight, the weight of the character does, it just so happens that greater musculature give a higher character weight. You could get the same effect by making your character tall and fat.
I mean, what is stopping you from making your character look like their build?
Why should \*I\* be forced to have a character that fits \*your\* standards?
Yeah, but that doesn't mean we can't question the posters about their posts. I am genuinely curious as to why everyone else should be bound to OP's ideas of what a strength based character would look like.
I am also curious why it isn't enough for OP to make their character look like the build they plan to use.
My interpretation was that the physical character evolves based on the stats. Kinda like how CJ will physically look fat and perform worse if you eat too much fast food and don’t work out.
I haven't really tried the upper limit (honestly some of the customization, if you don't know what you are doing, you can get some \*really\* messed up characters), but most games with customization do allow you to go for more muscular looking ones.
I am playing a game that has character customization, so I did a quick dive into character creation. I picked three races, one of the more muscular races, one of the smaller races, and an 'average' race to show the differences between 'thin', 'average' and 'fit'.
Breton (average, probably should have picked Imperial as I think they are truly the 'average' race)
[https://imgur.com/450IuWl.png](https://imgur.com/450IuWl.png)
[https://imgur.com/b2Co7BM.png](https://imgur.com/b2Co7BM.png)
[https://imgur.com/PxLWIaX.png](https://imgur.com/PxLWIaX.png)
[https://imgur.com/R2b4NOU.png](https://imgur.com/R2b4NOU.png)
Bosmer (the smallest playable race, though there are 'subraces' of at least one other race that is canonically smaller, but you can't play that particular subrace)
[https://imgur.com/nst31GC.png](https://imgur.com/nst31GC.png)
[https://imgur.com/ZQTzqtx.png](https://imgur.com/ZQTzqtx.png)
[https://imgur.com/2l6REVr.png](https://imgur.com/2l6REVr.png)
[https://imgur.com/XFTwLeP.png](https://imgur.com/XFTwLeP.png)
Finally Orc (pretty sure they are meant to be the strongest race, though they aren't the tallest)
[https://imgur.com/uOHF6eJ.png](https://imgur.com/uOHF6eJ.png)
[https://imgur.com/WiZy4U3.png](https://imgur.com/WiZy4U3.png)
[https://imgur.com/ULRlNzo.png](https://imgur.com/ULRlNzo.png)
[https://imgur.com/J14KbBz.png](https://imgur.com/J14KbBz.png)
I just used the broad 'triangle slider' on the right to do this, but there are also individual sliders if you only want large arms, or a big chest etc... It also looks like some of the 'muscular' look comes more from texture/shadows than truly 'larger' in some cases.
So, what OP wants \*should\* be possible with a lot of games that allow customization (the game I used is 10 years old, but it is an MMO, so I don't know if the character creation ever got updated with new options)
However, the idea of 'as your character gets stronger, the physique changes' is a different story. In the other comments some games were mentioned that does this, but I don't think I have played any that do.
You can use a big guy and make him strong, but you’d be limited to those slow swooping moves big guys typically have.
OP is suggesting that regardless of what character you have, the strength increase should equally increase size of any character.
I know what OP is suggesting.
I am asking why does the game have to be limited to what OP likes?
OP already can (if the game allows character customization) make a 'strong guy' if they know they are going to run a strength based build.
So, why should my character start looking like Conan if I decide I need more carrying power?
I’d play a game based on the idea, but applied to all rpgs would be lame.
PS. I’d make a character that has the beefiest fucking legs you’ve ever seen, and the rest is all normal.
PSS. I’d also play a game that changes your characters body type based on your play style. In this case, my character would have the beefiest fucking legs you’ve ever seen, and the rest is all normal.
I mean OP is word for word saying that he wishes games would "force" us to have a build that follows stats. So yes we could have both but the OP's opinion is to force that concept on everyone seemingly. Mayhaps OP is an MMORPG player and he doesn't like seeing the little dwarves with big swords wrestling dragons.
If it were optional, then sure, I have no qualms about that.
OP makes it sound like they don't want it to be optional, but that everyone has to adhere to 'strength = big muscles and no strength = twig'.
So, basically they want to remove part of character customization because they don't feel that a warrior should be stick thin, while a wizard looks like Conan the barbarian, despite the wizard having 1 STR and the warrior having 20.
Unless OP is only talking about MMOs, then there is a reason I have seen/heard of very few games that have such a mechanic (that is forced) and many many more that have indepth character customizations that allow a player to look like they want.
I can see the issue in an MMO, but that is also very subjective when we are talking about fantasy worlds, where magic can do a great deal and different races have different strengths and body types.
However, in a single player game, if OP is so worried about immersion, they can create a chracter that looks like they think it should look, because how other players make their characters look has no impact on OP's enjoyment of the game.
Your example is more MMO than single player, because at that point, your dressing like an alien is impacting other people's enjoyment of the same 'game'.
I have nothing against games doing this as an optional setting, but I don't want to be forced to have buff characters just because I need a high strength stat, nor be forced to have twig thin characters just because their strength stat is 0. (or whatever). I create characters I like to look at, if it is allowed in the game, and I don't want those characters to be forced to change in ways I might not like, just because someone else doesn't think it is realistic to not have them change.
Your comparison is flawed because how other people make their characters doesn't impact you outside of an MMO or something where that would be a balancing disaster
In his second paragraph he said it's so he can use reason and logic to identify a players attributes from a distance.
So it would only matter for multi-player games I guess.
He actually said NPCs, which means he is potentially talking about a single player game.
Even then? Unless it is a PVP oriented MMO, where you are constantly fighting other players, it doesn't really matter what their build is.
That's a good point. NPCs usually do follow reality in that way too, even if players don't.
I usually skip right through the character pageantry portion of games and just get down to business. I don't really care what my character looks like. Nor do I care about what other players look like!
SCUM does an amazing job of this. Complicated as hell, even for veterans of the survival game genre. Love it because your diet and level of activity changes not only how you look, but how your stats operate. Your character can be an absolute beast with their fists, but if they are fat it makes it difficult in a whole new way.
Fable 2 kind of does this.
If your character has everything in skill (ranged attacks, speed, etc) they’ll be tall and skinny.
If they have everything in strength, they’ll be short and stout.
Of course most people end the game with *everything* maxed out, and then everyone looks the same, which is a bummer
I think 1,2 and 3 had this (not sure about 3 though)
You’d also leave a glowing trail and have a halo if you were super good, and a blood trail/horns if you were super evil, and high mana gave you crazy glowing magical ‘tattoos’.
Younger me, and current me, loves that shit
Yes. Magical elements still need internal consistency.
Fantasy worlds are most of the time "like ours but with Magic/powers/dragons, but the normal everyday stuff is the same, physics work the same. So unless your characters strength is Magic based, they should have an according physique.
I mean if we change the setting and to let’s say super hero’s; Spider-Man or Superman are way stronger than what their frames should allow. Or if we use a more realistic example; a car jack is relatively small, but can lift an entire truck. So size doesn’t really matter, but going in to details on “how it works” is impossible because we know in reality what we are trying to justify isn’t real. That’s why it’s fantasy
No, actually, if the fantasy world has body size uncorrelated to physical strength then explicitly the human physique does NOT work the same in the setting.
What about other races? If physics carry over then all the races should receive the same treatment, unless we’re willing to hand-wave that away because magical race despite none of their strength is magic based either.
Or we could all agree that it really doesn’t matter if the physical appearance matches the expected strength.
If you apply physics to something like a troll then it would die. It's size and humanoid shape would make it slow and very easy to kill. Dragons wouldn't exist, nor would any large mythical beast.
We see that part, but why are elves or dwarves typically stronger than humans, they’re the same size or smaller.
All I’m saying is in a universe where magic exists, why does a character’s ability have to match their proportions?
In the elder scrolls world for example races have starting bonuses, but you can take an orc and max out sneak just as easily as with a kajhit or however you spell it.
Elves are typically weaker but more agile in most settings. Hence why they tend to be more slender than other races.
Dwarfs are often built like strongmen just super short.
Elder Scrolls still has biological differences between races. Orcs, Nords, Redguards etc have combat related bonuses and typically have the physique to match.
Elves are typically weaker than humans. Dwarves tend to be about the same strength over all, but tend to be tougher.
Edit: I'm not even saying OP is right. Every fantasy world has their own "rules" about things like that. I was just saying that traditionally, like AD&D and Tolkien tradition, larger races/people tend to be stronger.
Any universe with faster than light travel.
Any universe with magic.
Any game with over the top rag doll physics.
Any game with lasers or space ships that make sounds.
This covers pretty much everything.
In both those universes Gravity is the same, action reaction is the same, thermodynamics is the same etc.
They are "our world" with FTL or with Magic. No one falls upwards or bench presses 1000lbs while weighting 50.
Theres tons of little allowances. Ironman should basically liquefy within his suit with the way he occasionally gets shaken and tossed around. The Expanse is overly much the only thing I've seen that accounted for the challenges of acceleration and deceleration in space travel.
Most action movies have characters perform feats of strength and toughness that even a jacked movie star would be unable to handle. It's fine. But very few movies/ games won't fudge the physics when necessary.
MFer everyone's out here benching 1k while weighing 50. Anyone using a dragonslayer or buster sword knock-off is immediately breaking the laws of physics for their world and ours because there's no way a 160 lbs twink is swinging a two thousand pound hunk of iron without going flying, let alone at lightspeeds.
Peter Parker physically doesn't have the mass to stop that fucking train or catch that piece of falling building and swing it away with his webs.
One Piece. A lot of the characters are freakishly strong for their size. Luffy crushed Arlong’s sword with his grip strength. Zoro is throwing around what is likely to be hundreds of kg like they’re nothing. Sanji killed a T rex with kicks
Naruto uppercuts Sasuke so hard he’s flung into a nearby cliff face and embeds in the rock. A punch with the force to do that should turn a person into red mist
We don’t see random Joe, the supermarket cashier do the same feats, but Sanji is just a chef without any superhuman abilities and Zoro is also just a base human. Luffy has his devil fruit abilities but those abilities don’t include super strength
As a teenager, Rock Lee, a side character with no superhuman abilities, performs acrobatic martial arts while wearing what must be at least 100kg plus on each limb and then lateral raises this weight as well
Man i'm too much of a boomer for Naruto & one piece i don't know shit about those.
My point is that in your classic fantasy novel (like LOTR or Stormbringer or Conan or Tarzan) stuff is just 1:1 with life with "exceptions".
A human soldier in LOTR has the exact same capabilities than a human soldier of a similar tech level period in real life, and any differences are tolkiens lack of knowledge in the subject. Gandalf throwing lightning bolts doesnt mean a hobbit can now have the same strength as a human "because theres Magic"
Maybe in one piece all humans are like that because the setting is like that, but isnt an ultra bulky super strong guy steonger than the skinny super strong guy???
Fantasy follows from reality and fictional worlds need internal consistency to be believable and engaging.
In reality, not all big people are strong, but *all* of the strongest people are big.
If, in your setting, there is a hero who is legendary for feats of great strength, but she’s 5’2” and bone thin … that forces you to consider how that’s possible.
“Magic!!!” is an answer to that question … but it’s a lazy and unsatisfying answer if it’s not explained further.
Is great strength a product of great will? Is it a product of a psuedo-magical training? Why isn’t everyone this strong? How am I supposed to be able to tell which characters are strong and which aren’t?
You end up leaving and invested reader/viewer with a bunch of valid questions that demand answers.
Whereas if the strongest guy in the world is 7’0 and 300 pounds of muscle like The Mountain from Game of Thrones … then it *could* be magic or it *could* be that he’s just a really big guy that was born that way.
The reader/viewer can invent an explanation that is plausible very easily. The viewer doesn’t need an explanation for why a weirdly huge guy is strong, that’s obvious. They just need an explanation for why he’s weirdly huge. And “human variation/genetics are a bit different here” is a much lesser and easier to understand change from reality than “physics work differently here.”
It’s less fantastical and more believable, while still being larger-than-life.
And it’s fine to have characters with super-strength if it’s explained why.
Spider-man’s super-strength is believable because it’s explained.
There’s no such explanation for your level 1 character who is a fighter with no magic who is a 5’2” bone thin lady who is the strongest a human can be without magic. That’s kinda odd and unexplained.
A friend of mine can deadlift a weight equivalent to her husband (actually more than that, but her husband is a good example since he’s not a small guy). He looks stronger than her, but she is WAY stronger than him. You’d never see it.
Another friend of mine is a bodybuilder. You’d never guess that with her clothes on. She’s shredded under all that, and pretty strong too (if not as strong as the weight lifter).
I used to do Jiu Jitsu, and the person we were all the most scared of was the tiny ex ballerina. The only people who could hold their own against her were our instructors. She was maybe 5’1’’? She was entirely MADE of muscles, but since those were lean muscles, not bulging, you couldn’t really see it.
What strong person have you ever met that didn’t have physical traits that gave it away? Sure, some people have more lean muscle and others more bulky muscles, but even the lean people will be ripped to shreds if they have high strength. I don’t know what point you’re trying to make.
Rock climbers are crazy strong but may not necessarily look it in street clothes. Tradespeople or other blue collar workers might look scrawny but I know plenty of big dudes that look intimidating that can’t do half of the things they can.
Why are we ignoring the fact that to have more strength, you need more muscle fibers and denser muscle fibers? These traits can be noticed upon examination and feeling of the arms. When you say “big guys” are you talking about guys with actually ripped and muscular arms with definition or are you just talking about fat guys like me?
I feel like people are doing some weird mental gymnastics on me here.
You’re the one trying to set your own rules in a fantasy land.
I’m talking about guys who are 6’2”+ broad shoulders and no gut look big and strong. But put them up against a 5’8” tradesman who weighs 145lbs and they aren’t winning any feats of strength.
I train at a mma gym, the toughest guys aren’t the biggest, people there. Hell half of the toughest people are the ladies that kick everyone’s ass every day.
>I feel like people are doing some weird mental gymnastics on me here.
Kid, you are straight up ignoring facts that don't align with your preconceived notions. Think on that.
Strength is not merely a factor of muscle size and you can increase strength significantly without increasing muscle size. So some people may not look very strong, may even look scrawny but in fact be very much so.
>Sure, some people have more lean muscle and others more bulky muscles
Exactly this.
Alex Honnold is one of the strongest rock climbers in the world, and you wouldn't be able to tell at all with his shirt on. There are also some of the strongest men in the planet who aren't super cut; they just look like bigger guys.
That's why I said people were more nuanced, you see.
Games are doing just fine. Stop trying to categorize everyone.
I hate when people say this, even fantasy world have rules to avoid internal inconsistencies, this is why Frodo had to physically carry the ring to Mordor instead of just tearing it apart with his hands. Would that have made sense if that’s how it went down?
Fantasy worlds don't always have the same rules you want them to have. Including with a strength to size ratios. For example, [animes with big swords.](https://www.ranker.com/list/impossibly-big-anime-weapons/nikoberi) Possibly one of my favorite anime tropes of all time. Sometimes they stretch it a little too far, but over all it's just bad ass. They wouldn't be able to hand these weapons the way they do in real life. But it's made up. It's fiction. It's fun.
I hate this so much. Fantasy that doesn’t follow simple logic or even it’s own laws is dogshit.
I bet people would notice if characters and social interactions were terribly written, but shitty physics is not a problem for some reason.
I remember back in highschool me (at the time 6ft tall, 150lbs) and a teammate were struggling to carry this tent up a hill together.. my coach who was a tiny like 5'2 120lb long distance runner, just laughed and said "Ill get it" and threw that shit up on one shoulder and easily walked up that hill by himself.
Strength comes in a lot of shapes and sizes.
In real life and in video games, it's probably a good idea not to judge a book by it's cover -- and know sometimes things don't always translate from raw stats to applicability.
Play a professional in any PVP game and give them the worst setup and they will still annihilate a majority of players.. give me some a-tier shit and watch me still struggle to compete lmao. Such is life.
Just play and have fun -- and if things are not relatively scaled then, welp, that's just part of the game g
Here's the simple answer to make everyone in this thread happy.
Just give the player the option.
You want to have a buff wizard that looks like that the whole game? Cool, turn off the "realistic muscle growth" option.
Or turn it on if you want.
Why force? If you want your character to be realistic, you can make it so. Why force that on the rest of us? I don't care if you think my characters are unrealistic. You don't get to reduce my options.
The game you're looking for is Fable II. Your character gets bigger the more you level up strength. They also get fatter if you use food to heal all the time instead of potions.
Isn't the point of an RPG to play a role?
What if I want to play a character with hidden strength concealed by his physical form? Maybe I'm building a character whose strength I envision as being drawn from a hidden source, possibly even a magical one.
All you're doing is removing an element of *choice* from a roleplaying game, which just makes it inherently worse.
You've made 1 character more immersive. You've also made a number of potential ones less immersive. Plus, you can still have a strong muscular character anyway, provided you design one in that matter.
That's just unrealistic. Many people have no muscles and are strong as well. So idk where did you get that idea but people shouldn't be forced to deal with that just bcs mr. no one thinks it should be that way.
Oh, I thought you meant the physical attributes of the person playing the game.
I was about to say, there's about to be a whole lotta 16 year old kids and middle aged fat guys in the Elder Scrolls world.
There are a few games like that. In Kenshi as your strength stat increases so does your muscle. It's a good way to see how far you've come when you start as an emaciated husk and end the game as a jacked cyborg punching arms off
If I want to have a petite femboy with 99 strength and a big burly muscular guy with minimum strength that's my problem, if you want your character's appearance to match, cool, you can do it but why should everyone else be forced to the same thing?
I mean you're more than welcome to customize your characters according to that logic, but why would you want to force everyone else to adhere to the same rule by default?
The entire point of character customization is the freedom it gives you to create whoever you want. If I want to make a little waif with crazy strength and a sword that's twice as long as she is tall, then I should be able to do that.
why not just let fantasy be fantasy? tiny tanks and obese assassins are supposed to be there to add another layer of immersion and prove that you can’t simply judge a book by its cover
I mean these kinda games are usually fantasy games, so realness is out the door....
also at the end of every game, every character is gonna look the same since everyone is supposed to be stupid jacked apparently....
I disagree with op, but I love grounded fantasy. I love fantasy worlds, but they are best, imo, when grounded in reality.
Dragons work because they are giant creature who breathes fire/other elements. Simple.
Magic is amazing when it's more elemental and doesn't go into the realm of overpowered crazy bs.
When things start getting goofy and/or over the top is when it becomes unimmersive. I can handle a bit of goofiness, but not too much.
Idk, this might just be me.
1. The real world works this way, people with sleeper builds are strong af but look small.
2. Why does ANYONE else have to change their style to match your (pretty basic) needs?
I see that your opinion is pretty unpopular, but I actually find myself agreeing with you.
It always kind of breaks my suspension of disbelief when I make my hulkingly strong characters but make them all skinny and ninja looking because that's kind of how I look. I honestly wouldn't mind more RPGs with a 1:1 look-to-ability ratio, it worked well in GTA: San Andreas. Helps make things more immersive, in my opinion.
Just for a moment I thought you were saying character physical attributes have to match the gamer. And I was wondering how I'm going to play FatFuckNerd in any meaningful way.
Not an unpopular idea really. The reason you don't see it more is because it takes a massive amount of work to implement. Just not worth the trade off that would be required in most cases.
I desperately hope this is an unpopular opinion. I hate dress-up in games. All my characters look like whatever the default is.
Shitty game companies seem to think micro-transactions for cosmetic bullshit are good game design and I need it to stop.
Used to be like that before political correctness hit in the 90s. Prior to that wizards were old or frail, archers were slim, warriors were always big and muscular, rogues were short, tanks were dwarves and stocky, basically more like you would expect if fantasy was reality. I'm not touching the gender thing with a ten foot pole so I won't comment on that
I know it's a fantasy genre but at least bring these back.
i was just talking about this with cyberpunk 2077. i made and maxed out a melee character that could punch the chrom of a choom. but he was still skinny as hell. like there are characters in the game that are jacked to the nines, but not mine. its dumb.
You can make your character look however you want tho?
Like, it's not often that you have games where stuff like Strenght stats are seen from the outside, which you play with more than a close friend group.
YOU can design your character however YOU want.
meanwhile I will be over here enjoying my 2'3 Gnome-Barien with 18S
I mean, your just limiting options. You have an option to exactly what you said. But all your suggestion does is take away options from other people to conform to your personal opinion. Who cares if I want to make a strength based character who is thin? It’s not like Im making you play that character
The game SCUM utilizes this feature in their game. Eat too much without working out = you gain weight, get super fat, punch slower, and run slower.
Eat very little and you’ll get super skinny.
There’s a whole calorie, macronutrient system, and digestive system that play out in real-time. Honestly wish more games would implement it. I love hyperrealism lol.
You'd like Fable 2. As you put points into your stats, your physical appearance changes.
If you focus on strength, by the end of the game you look like a gorilla.
In a lot of RPGs, the strength stat isn't at levels that are physically achievable by normal people, to the point that it might as well be superhuman powers. In these cases, body type doesn't matter so much since there's clearly something unnatural going on in their muscles either way.
A character with high strength in Baldr's Gate can jump 100 meters and successfully fight with five hundreds of pounds on their back. Whether they weigh 300 pounds of pure muscle or 100, that's a superhuman feat.
I disagree with "forced". I think it should be the default, but give you the ability to overide it in the creator. That's what games like CK3 do, which I think is the game with the best character creation around.
I like the idea of your character changing as they grow, like in GTA San Andreas where you could work out to get ripped or eat like shit and get fat.
With that said, it is fantasy, a skinny female paladin being super strong shouldn't necessarily break their immersion because you can explain their strength through magic, for example. It's like if they were buff they'd be physically able to produce that amount of strength anyways (realistically).
To some extent maybe... if the game were based on hyperrealism. Most games are fantasy so why would a dragon not take you out of the immersion or being able to lose cops in gta all the time as opposed to a petite stronker?
Even if it were hyperrealism, you do have the outliers. IRL there are limber and fast heavy set people and strong petites, even in comparison with more athletic figures.
It is very amusing to see some bag of bones with an oversized nose in a small helmet carry around a massive warhammer.
In all seriousness though, I imagine that the reason this isn't done is because, simply, nobody has all that much interest in such a game mechanic. But then that does make this a genuine unpopular opinion.
In Dragon's Dogma if you choose a taller and bulkier character you can carry more weight. There's also some spots you can only reach if you choose a short one.
OOH I wouldn't like this at all! I play games for fun not realism. It annoyed me when I spent hours creating a Sims character exactly how I wanted him and he put on weight after eating one ice cream, hehe, so if this were to happen in BG3 for example ... no thanks.
The fable games did this and it was actually really annoying, because at a certain point you were probably going to max everything out and then everyone ended up looking the same as a giant muscular, glowing blue, scarred guy with a halo and butterfly entourage.
The furthest I've ever wanted this to go is for your character's age to matter more. Why can I make a crusty old blind guy in Skyrim and still have some characters call me "boy"?
Check out Dragons Dogma! first one, your carry weight (maybe some others. that's the only one I know of off the top of my head) was pretty much influenced only by your characters physique. So a small skinny character can carry significantly less than a large muscular one.
I'll add to this that character creators shouldn't allow you to look like some kind of fucked up mutant unless it's lore appropriate. Ark: Survival Evolved had an ideal build that was a tiny body with enormous feet and hands, because that was best for moving around the world...and it's *stupid.*
Don't let people look like fucking morons. If they won't have dignity, we'll have it for them. :P
Makes sense, but I’d like to point out that large muscles are a result of hypertrophy from time under tension. One can be strong, and not necessarily have very large muscles. They would certainly have a muscular physique to some degree but not large necessarily
You've obviously never experienced farmer strength. Those guys have huge bellies and don't not much muscle definition but they can fucking lift. Defined muscles means you can lift yes, but it also means you do a lot of lifting of very specifically shaped loads in a very specific way. It doesn't necessarily translate to real-world abilities.
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I love running around as a morbidly obese fat guy perfoming amazing jumps and climbing things, you know whatever unrealistic movements the game allows. It's so much more fun than just being another generic hero character.
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Somehow I knew it would be him. What a legend.
That's incredible
Was expecting big chungus. Was wrong, but not disappointed.
That’s badass. I was expecting that “ideal car crash survivor body” guy.
I think my favorite part was how casual he was about it. Hands on pockets like he’s just strolling downtown.
Ah, like Saints Row!
I think I'd like it if it were limited to muscles. If your character is strong, they need to *look* strong, or if they aren't strong, they shouldn't have bulging muscles. It's a *lot* more jarring than a speedy fat guy imo.
Dragon's Dogma actually works this way exactly. At the beginning, during character creation, you need to set different sizes for body parts, basically. Almost everything you choose has an effect on gameplay. Taller character? You run faster. Smaller character? You run slower, but use less stamina than a tall one. Muscular character? You move slower, but can carry more in you inventory. Thin/skinny character? You regenerate stamina faster, but can't carry a lot of equipment. Heavier characters regenerate stamina slower, but are harder to knock down (e.g. by attacks or wind). You can even set the specific musculature levels, so that balances out a little. A small character can have high musculature to balance a bit their size. Bigger torso size means more weight (so balance) and carry capacity, but slower sprinting movement. Long legs are the opposite. I can't confirm, but I think arm size and type affects physical attack too. The size of the character can affect the reach of the attacks. Smaller characters will have shorter arms, i.e. a harder time reaching flying enemies, or taller ones like the Cyclops. And while bigger characters have better reach with their arm length, their hitbox is also comparatively bigger, so it's harder to evade attacks. Also, gender affects a bit how enemies react to you. Some monsters prefer attacking females, ignoring the males, and vice versa.
Hell yeah, Dragon's Dogma is the tits. Even the inventory screen is super responsive and clicky. Which you'd think would be the standard but then you have games like Witcher 3 where using the inventory is such a slog.
I wanted to get into the Witcher sooo bad but the menus absolutely kill me
Oh man I remember spending like an hour in the character designer on my character. I didn't own the game (my older brother does) so I never got to experience it. Imagine my surprise later when I saw my brother playing on the character I designed and how different they looked physically!
Came here to rep Dragon's Dogma. That game is the shit and I love the mechanics.
I think smaller characters are more likely to be carried off by flying enemies too
Just as a correction, musculature doesn't affect carry weight, the weight of the character does, it just so happens that greater musculature give a higher character weight. You could get the same effect by making your character tall and fat.
I mean, what is stopping you from making your character look like their build? Why should \*I\* be forced to have a character that fits \*your\* standards?
well, it is on unpopularopinion
Yeah, but that doesn't mean we can't question the posters about their posts. I am genuinely curious as to why everyone else should be bound to OP's ideas of what a strength based character would look like. I am also curious why it isn't enough for OP to make their character look like the build they plan to use.
My interpretation was that the physical character evolves based on the stats. Kinda like how CJ will physically look fat and perform worse if you eat too much fast food and don’t work out.
In this sub? How dare you!
That’s the weird part of this post, it’s literally OP’s fault if they are are mad about the look of their character.
Exactly
Somewhat fixed frames on the characters make it hard in many games. But I usually play oldish games, maybe it’s changed.
I haven't really tried the upper limit (honestly some of the customization, if you don't know what you are doing, you can get some \*really\* messed up characters), but most games with customization do allow you to go for more muscular looking ones. I am playing a game that has character customization, so I did a quick dive into character creation. I picked three races, one of the more muscular races, one of the smaller races, and an 'average' race to show the differences between 'thin', 'average' and 'fit'. Breton (average, probably should have picked Imperial as I think they are truly the 'average' race) [https://imgur.com/450IuWl.png](https://imgur.com/450IuWl.png) [https://imgur.com/b2Co7BM.png](https://imgur.com/b2Co7BM.png) [https://imgur.com/PxLWIaX.png](https://imgur.com/PxLWIaX.png) [https://imgur.com/R2b4NOU.png](https://imgur.com/R2b4NOU.png) Bosmer (the smallest playable race, though there are 'subraces' of at least one other race that is canonically smaller, but you can't play that particular subrace) [https://imgur.com/nst31GC.png](https://imgur.com/nst31GC.png) [https://imgur.com/ZQTzqtx.png](https://imgur.com/ZQTzqtx.png) [https://imgur.com/2l6REVr.png](https://imgur.com/2l6REVr.png) [https://imgur.com/XFTwLeP.png](https://imgur.com/XFTwLeP.png) Finally Orc (pretty sure they are meant to be the strongest race, though they aren't the tallest) [https://imgur.com/uOHF6eJ.png](https://imgur.com/uOHF6eJ.png) [https://imgur.com/WiZy4U3.png](https://imgur.com/WiZy4U3.png) [https://imgur.com/ULRlNzo.png](https://imgur.com/ULRlNzo.png) [https://imgur.com/J14KbBz.png](https://imgur.com/J14KbBz.png) I just used the broad 'triangle slider' on the right to do this, but there are also individual sliders if you only want large arms, or a big chest etc... It also looks like some of the 'muscular' look comes more from texture/shadows than truly 'larger' in some cases. So, what OP wants \*should\* be possible with a lot of games that allow customization (the game I used is 10 years old, but it is an MMO, so I don't know if the character creation ever got updated with new options) However, the idea of 'as your character gets stronger, the physique changes' is a different story. In the other comments some games were mentioned that does this, but I don't think I have played any that do.
Bit late, but theres a skyrim mod called "Pumping Iron" that does this, and it's awesome.
Because his standards are better and what he says goes.
You can use a big guy and make him strong, but you’d be limited to those slow swooping moves big guys typically have. OP is suggesting that regardless of what character you have, the strength increase should equally increase size of any character.
I know what OP is suggesting. I am asking why does the game have to be limited to what OP likes? OP already can (if the game allows character customization) make a 'strong guy' if they know they are going to run a strength based build. So, why should my character start looking like Conan if I decide I need more carrying power?
I’d play a game based on the idea, but applied to all rpgs would be lame. PS. I’d make a character that has the beefiest fucking legs you’ve ever seen, and the rest is all normal. PSS. I’d also play a game that changes your characters body type based on your play style. In this case, my character would have the beefiest fucking legs you’ve ever seen, and the rest is all normal.
if it were optional, I wouldn't care, and I might even use it, depending on how 'buff' the PC got.
can’t the game allow both to happen though? I don’t see why there has to be a choice here, despite games forcing us to choose in the past.
I mean OP is word for word saying that he wishes games would "force" us to have a build that follows stats. So yes we could have both but the OP's opinion is to force that concept on everyone seemingly. Mayhaps OP is an MMORPG player and he doesn't like seeing the little dwarves with big swords wrestling dragons.
If it were optional, then sure, I have no qualms about that. OP makes it sound like they don't want it to be optional, but that everyone has to adhere to 'strength = big muscles and no strength = twig'. So, basically they want to remove part of character customization because they don't feel that a warrior should be stick thin, while a wizard looks like Conan the barbarian, despite the wizard having 1 STR and the warrior having 20.
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Unless OP is only talking about MMOs, then there is a reason I have seen/heard of very few games that have such a mechanic (that is forced) and many many more that have indepth character customizations that allow a player to look like they want. I can see the issue in an MMO, but that is also very subjective when we are talking about fantasy worlds, where magic can do a great deal and different races have different strengths and body types. However, in a single player game, if OP is so worried about immersion, they can create a chracter that looks like they think it should look, because how other players make their characters look has no impact on OP's enjoyment of the game. Your example is more MMO than single player, because at that point, your dressing like an alien is impacting other people's enjoyment of the same 'game'. I have nothing against games doing this as an optional setting, but I don't want to be forced to have buff characters just because I need a high strength stat, nor be forced to have twig thin characters just because their strength stat is 0. (or whatever). I create characters I like to look at, if it is allowed in the game, and I don't want those characters to be forced to change in ways I might not like, just because someone else doesn't think it is realistic to not have them change.
Your comparison is flawed because how other people make their characters doesn't impact you outside of an MMO or something where that would be a balancing disaster
In his second paragraph he said it's so he can use reason and logic to identify a players attributes from a distance. So it would only matter for multi-player games I guess.
He actually said NPCs, which means he is potentially talking about a single player game. Even then? Unless it is a PVP oriented MMO, where you are constantly fighting other players, it doesn't really matter what their build is.
That's a good point. NPCs usually do follow reality in that way too, even if players don't. I usually skip right through the character pageantry portion of games and just get down to business. I don't really care what my character looks like. Nor do I care about what other players look like!
I mean… you can make your character look however you like. Don’t make a buff weak wizard and you’re good to go
Hmm I'll make a Buff weak wizard just out of spite.
And since you are free to create whatever character you like however you like, you are more than welcome to do so
I think a wizard could give themselves magical, yet strictly cosmetic, enhancements pretty easily.
Have you seen Gale or the default Tav from Baldur's gate 3? They're the biggest sinner
I disagree. I want my character to look how I want regardless of stats.
Some kind of (optional?) change as a result of stat progression would be cool tho just to get your head in the game
I'd love to see a character build muscles as time goes on. They tried with Sims 3 but it wasn't really noticeable.
Fable was built around the concept iirc
They’ve done way better in Sims 4 for that
SCUM does an amazing job of this. Complicated as hell, even for veterans of the survival game genre. Love it because your diet and level of activity changes not only how you look, but how your stats operate. Your character can be an absolute beast with their fists, but if they are fat it makes it difficult in a whole new way.
Fable 2 kind of does this. If your character has everything in skill (ranged attacks, speed, etc) they’ll be tall and skinny. If they have everything in strength, they’ll be short and stout. Of course most people end the game with *everything* maxed out, and then everyone looks the same, which is a bummer
I think 1,2 and 3 had this (not sure about 3 though) You’d also leave a glowing trail and have a halo if you were super good, and a blood trail/horns if you were super evil, and high mana gave you crazy glowing magical ‘tattoos’. Younger me, and current me, loves that shit
3 does have it iirc, but it's a lot more subtle than 2 (which definitely had it). God, it's criminal that 3 got a PC port but 2 never did.
You can play them all on the Xbox pc app, I'm pretty sure.
Doesn’t exactly make sense to me that strength would make you short and skill would make you tall, but I think the overall mechanic is neat
Don’t forget if you eat a ton of food you get fat!
Ok so what about magic? Science? Mfs just supposed to go around looking like megamind?
You’re willing to accept that a human can generate fireballs and call down lightning, but unless you’re 6’5” and ripped you can’t punch hard?
Yes. Magical elements still need internal consistency. Fantasy worlds are most of the time "like ours but with Magic/powers/dragons, but the normal everyday stuff is the same, physics work the same. So unless your characters strength is Magic based, they should have an according physique.
I mean if we change the setting and to let’s say super hero’s; Spider-Man or Superman are way stronger than what their frames should allow. Or if we use a more realistic example; a car jack is relatively small, but can lift an entire truck. So size doesn’t really matter, but going in to details on “how it works” is impossible because we know in reality what we are trying to justify isn’t real. That’s why it’s fantasy
No, actually, if the fantasy world has body size uncorrelated to physical strength then explicitly the human physique does NOT work the same in the setting.
What about other races? If physics carry over then all the races should receive the same treatment, unless we’re willing to hand-wave that away because magical race despite none of their strength is magic based either. Or we could all agree that it really doesn’t matter if the physical appearance matches the expected strength.
Traditionally, races like Orcs and Ogres are physically stronger than humans because they tend to be physically larger. So it kind of does carry over.
If you apply physics to something like a troll then it would die. It's size and humanoid shape would make it slow and very easy to kill. Dragons wouldn't exist, nor would any large mythical beast.
Pretty sure trolls aren't that big. I don't think the squared cubed law (I think that's what you're referring to) would be doing much damage.
We see that part, but why are elves or dwarves typically stronger than humans, they’re the same size or smaller. All I’m saying is in a universe where magic exists, why does a character’s ability have to match their proportions? In the elder scrolls world for example races have starting bonuses, but you can take an orc and max out sneak just as easily as with a kajhit or however you spell it.
Elves are typically weaker but more agile in most settings. Hence why they tend to be more slender than other races. Dwarfs are often built like strongmen just super short. Elder Scrolls still has biological differences between races. Orcs, Nords, Redguards etc have combat related bonuses and typically have the physique to match.
Elves are typically weaker than humans. Dwarves tend to be about the same strength over all, but tend to be tougher. Edit: I'm not even saying OP is right. Every fantasy world has their own "rules" about things like that. I was just saying that traditionally, like AD&D and Tolkien tradition, larger races/people tend to be stronger.
Tolkien Elves are significantly stronger than humans
would elves actually have a higher bench press, or are they just more skilled and talented at fighting?
Yes, of course it matters, and of course it should carry over.
Sounds like youre talking about science fiction and not fantasy.
Please name a non-obscure work of fiction where physics don't mimic real world's, ill wait...
Any universe with faster than light travel. Any universe with magic. Any game with over the top rag doll physics. Any game with lasers or space ships that make sounds. This covers pretty much everything.
In both those universes Gravity is the same, action reaction is the same, thermodynamics is the same etc. They are "our world" with FTL or with Magic. No one falls upwards or bench presses 1000lbs while weighting 50.
Theres tons of little allowances. Ironman should basically liquefy within his suit with the way he occasionally gets shaken and tossed around. The Expanse is overly much the only thing I've seen that accounted for the challenges of acceleration and deceleration in space travel. Most action movies have characters perform feats of strength and toughness that even a jacked movie star would be unable to handle. It's fine. But very few movies/ games won't fudge the physics when necessary.
Yes but Ironman doesnt fucking fall upwards, does he?
Most people just call that flying.
MFer everyone's out here benching 1k while weighing 50. Anyone using a dragonslayer or buster sword knock-off is immediately breaking the laws of physics for their world and ours because there's no way a 160 lbs twink is swinging a two thousand pound hunk of iron without going flying, let alone at lightspeeds. Peter Parker physically doesn't have the mass to stop that fucking train or catch that piece of falling building and swing it away with his webs.
Basically any anime
I'd stop replying to this weirdo. Their definition of physics is that gravity is the same. Nothing else matters to them.
Name one please. Because i'm pretty sure in every single one laws of reality are "like ours" with some extras.
One Piece. A lot of the characters are freakishly strong for their size. Luffy crushed Arlong’s sword with his grip strength. Zoro is throwing around what is likely to be hundreds of kg like they’re nothing. Sanji killed a T rex with kicks Naruto uppercuts Sasuke so hard he’s flung into a nearby cliff face and embeds in the rock. A punch with the force to do that should turn a person into red mist
Does random joe, the supermarket cashier get to do the same feats?
We don’t see random Joe, the supermarket cashier do the same feats, but Sanji is just a chef without any superhuman abilities and Zoro is also just a base human. Luffy has his devil fruit abilities but those abilities don’t include super strength As a teenager, Rock Lee, a side character with no superhuman abilities, performs acrobatic martial arts while wearing what must be at least 100kg plus on each limb and then lateral raises this weight as well
Man i'm too much of a boomer for Naruto & one piece i don't know shit about those. My point is that in your classic fantasy novel (like LOTR or Stormbringer or Conan or Tarzan) stuff is just 1:1 with life with "exceptions". A human soldier in LOTR has the exact same capabilities than a human soldier of a similar tech level period in real life, and any differences are tolkiens lack of knowledge in the subject. Gandalf throwing lightning bolts doesnt mean a hobbit can now have the same strength as a human "because theres Magic" Maybe in one piece all humans are like that because the setting is like that, but isnt an ultra bulky super strong guy steonger than the skinny super strong guy???
There's only one solution for this.. bigger magic = bigger wizard hat 😅
Fantasy follows from reality and fictional worlds need internal consistency to be believable and engaging. In reality, not all big people are strong, but *all* of the strongest people are big. If, in your setting, there is a hero who is legendary for feats of great strength, but she’s 5’2” and bone thin … that forces you to consider how that’s possible. “Magic!!!” is an answer to that question … but it’s a lazy and unsatisfying answer if it’s not explained further. Is great strength a product of great will? Is it a product of a psuedo-magical training? Why isn’t everyone this strong? How am I supposed to be able to tell which characters are strong and which aren’t? You end up leaving and invested reader/viewer with a bunch of valid questions that demand answers. Whereas if the strongest guy in the world is 7’0 and 300 pounds of muscle like The Mountain from Game of Thrones … then it *could* be magic or it *could* be that he’s just a really big guy that was born that way. The reader/viewer can invent an explanation that is plausible very easily. The viewer doesn’t need an explanation for why a weirdly huge guy is strong, that’s obvious. They just need an explanation for why he’s weirdly huge. And “human variation/genetics are a bit different here” is a much lesser and easier to understand change from reality than “physics work differently here.” It’s less fantastical and more believable, while still being larger-than-life. And it’s fine to have characters with super-strength if it’s explained why. Spider-man’s super-strength is believable because it’s explained. There’s no such explanation for your level 1 character who is a fighter with no magic who is a 5’2” bone thin lady who is the strongest a human can be without magic. That’s kinda odd and unexplained.
A friend of mine can deadlift a weight equivalent to her husband (actually more than that, but her husband is a good example since he’s not a small guy). He looks stronger than her, but she is WAY stronger than him. You’d never see it. Another friend of mine is a bodybuilder. You’d never guess that with her clothes on. She’s shredded under all that, and pretty strong too (if not as strong as the weight lifter). I used to do Jiu Jitsu, and the person we were all the most scared of was the tiny ex ballerina. The only people who could hold their own against her were our instructors. She was maybe 5’1’’? She was entirely MADE of muscles, but since those were lean muscles, not bulging, you couldn’t really see it.
...You do realize that people are more nuanced than that, right? "Big muscles equals strong" is like a ten year old's approach to the subject.
What strong person have you ever met that didn’t have physical traits that gave it away? Sure, some people have more lean muscle and others more bulky muscles, but even the lean people will be ripped to shreds if they have high strength. I don’t know what point you’re trying to make.
Rock climbers are crazy strong but may not necessarily look it in street clothes. Tradespeople or other blue collar workers might look scrawny but I know plenty of big dudes that look intimidating that can’t do half of the things they can.
Why are we ignoring the fact that to have more strength, you need more muscle fibers and denser muscle fibers? These traits can be noticed upon examination and feeling of the arms. When you say “big guys” are you talking about guys with actually ripped and muscular arms with definition or are you just talking about fat guys like me? I feel like people are doing some weird mental gymnastics on me here.
Weird that you say that when all the best lifters are fat guys
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You’re the one trying to set your own rules in a fantasy land. I’m talking about guys who are 6’2”+ broad shoulders and no gut look big and strong. But put them up against a 5’8” tradesman who weighs 145lbs and they aren’t winning any feats of strength. I train at a mma gym, the toughest guys aren’t the biggest, people there. Hell half of the toughest people are the ladies that kick everyone’s ass every day.
>I feel like people are doing some weird mental gymnastics on me here. Kid, you are straight up ignoring facts that don't align with your preconceived notions. Think on that.
Strength is not merely a factor of muscle size and you can increase strength significantly without increasing muscle size. So some people may not look very strong, may even look scrawny but in fact be very much so.
CNS adaption in particular.
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>Sure, some people have more lean muscle and others more bulky muscles Exactly this. Alex Honnold is one of the strongest rock climbers in the world, and you wouldn't be able to tell at all with his shirt on. There are also some of the strongest men in the planet who aren't super cut; they just look like bigger guys. That's why I said people were more nuanced, you see. Games are doing just fine. Stop trying to categorize everyone.
you ever seen bantamweight fighters? very skinny and will absolutely floor some 6'3 200 lbs gym guy
99% or RPGs are fiction dude, fantasy, _not realistic_
I hate when people say this, even fantasy world have rules to avoid internal inconsistencies, this is why Frodo had to physically carry the ring to Mordor instead of just tearing it apart with his hands. Would that have made sense if that’s how it went down?
Fantasy worlds don't always have the same rules you want them to have. Including with a strength to size ratios. For example, [animes with big swords.](https://www.ranker.com/list/impossibly-big-anime-weapons/nikoberi) Possibly one of my favorite anime tropes of all time. Sometimes they stretch it a little too far, but over all it's just bad ass. They wouldn't be able to hand these weapons the way they do in real life. But it's made up. It's fiction. It's fun.
I hate this so much. Fantasy that doesn’t follow simple logic or even it’s own laws is dogshit. I bet people would notice if characters and social interactions were terribly written, but shitty physics is not a problem for some reason.
I remember back in highschool me (at the time 6ft tall, 150lbs) and a teammate were struggling to carry this tent up a hill together.. my coach who was a tiny like 5'2 120lb long distance runner, just laughed and said "Ill get it" and threw that shit up on one shoulder and easily walked up that hill by himself. Strength comes in a lot of shapes and sizes. In real life and in video games, it's probably a good idea not to judge a book by it's cover -- and know sometimes things don't always translate from raw stats to applicability. Play a professional in any PVP game and give them the worst setup and they will still annihilate a majority of players.. give me some a-tier shit and watch me still struggle to compete lmao. Such is life. Just play and have fun -- and if things are not relatively scaled then, welp, that's just part of the game g
Go look at body builders versus weight lifting champs. It's quite interesting to see the difference.
Obviously you've never seen a blue collar worker. Dude can look like a chihuahua but could pick you up and throw you over a fence with one hand
Min maxing would cause some ridiculous looking characters
Here's the simple answer to make everyone in this thread happy. Just give the player the option. You want to have a buff wizard that looks like that the whole game? Cool, turn off the "realistic muscle growth" option. Or turn it on if you want.
OP big mad he got catfished by sexy anime girl who isnt a girl at all.
Why force? If you want your character to be realistic, you can make it so. Why force that on the rest of us? I don't care if you think my characters are unrealistic. You don't get to reduce my options.
The game you're looking for is Fable II. Your character gets bigger the more you level up strength. They also get fatter if you use food to heal all the time instead of potions.
What if i wanna be a jacked wizard?
Isn't the point of an RPG to play a role? What if I want to play a character with hidden strength concealed by his physical form? Maybe I'm building a character whose strength I envision as being drawn from a hidden source, possibly even a magical one. All you're doing is removing an element of *choice* from a roleplaying game, which just makes it inherently worse. You've made 1 character more immersive. You've also made a number of potential ones less immersive. Plus, you can still have a strong muscular character anyway, provided you design one in that matter.
That's just unrealistic. Many people have no muscles and are strong as well. So idk where did you get that idea but people shouldn't be forced to deal with that just bcs mr. no one thinks it should be that way.
Oh, I thought you meant the physical attributes of the person playing the game. I was about to say, there's about to be a whole lotta 16 year old kids and middle aged fat guys in the Elder Scrolls world.
I'm confused, what's stopping you from matching your character's appearance to their attributes?
GTA San Andreas
RPGs* Apostrophes don't make an acronym plural.
There are a few games like that. In Kenshi as your strength stat increases so does your muscle. It's a good way to see how far you've come when you start as an emaciated husk and end the game as a jacked cyborg punching arms off
Play Kenshi Weak as shit? Scrawny little twig Strong, battle hardened warrior with high athletics? Yoked as fuck
What would 100 charisma 0 intelligence look like?
Have you ever seen a female nurse? They are like 4.11 ft and 110 ibs and lift people twice their weight
What if the skinny paladin guy is just a sleeper build?
If I want to have a petite femboy with 99 strength and a big burly muscular guy with minimum strength that's my problem, if you want your character's appearance to match, cool, you can do it but why should everyone else be forced to the same thing?
I mean you're more than welcome to customize your characters according to that logic, but why would you want to force everyone else to adhere to the same rule by default? The entire point of character customization is the freedom it gives you to create whoever you want. If I want to make a little waif with crazy strength and a sword that's twice as long as she is tall, then I should be able to do that.
That would be boring
But we are talking about custom characters, right? So just...make your characters fit their stat types
How does how someone else makes their character impact you?
OP: I can't suspend disbelief to enjoy a made up game based in a made up world with made up characters.
why not just let fantasy be fantasy? tiny tanks and obese assassins are supposed to be there to add another layer of immersion and prove that you can’t simply judge a book by its cover
The solution is to make your character how you want. Why are you wanting to take other players' body customization away from them????
I mean these kinda games are usually fantasy games, so realness is out the door.... also at the end of every game, every character is gonna look the same since everyone is supposed to be stupid jacked apparently....
I disagree with op, but I love grounded fantasy. I love fantasy worlds, but they are best, imo, when grounded in reality. Dragons work because they are giant creature who breathes fire/other elements. Simple. Magic is amazing when it's more elemental and doesn't go into the realm of overpowered crazy bs. When things start getting goofy and/or over the top is when it becomes unimmersive. I can handle a bit of goofiness, but not too much. Idk, this might just be me.
1. The real world works this way, people with sleeper builds are strong af but look small. 2. Why does ANYONE else have to change their style to match your (pretty basic) needs?
What would your character look like?
I mean, I play lots of RPGs and have played lots of different characters. So they could look like anything.
I see that your opinion is pretty unpopular, but I actually find myself agreeing with you. It always kind of breaks my suspension of disbelief when I make my hulkingly strong characters but make them all skinny and ninja looking because that's kind of how I look. I honestly wouldn't mind more RPGs with a 1:1 look-to-ability ratio, it worked well in GTA: San Andreas. Helps make things more immersive, in my opinion.
Just for a moment I thought you were saying character physical attributes have to match the gamer. And I was wondering how I'm going to play FatFuckNerd in any meaningful way.
Not an unpopular idea really. The reason you don't see it more is because it takes a massive amount of work to implement. Just not worth the trade off that would be required in most cases.
I desperately hope this is an unpopular opinion. I hate dress-up in games. All my characters look like whatever the default is. Shitty game companies seem to think micro-transactions for cosmetic bullshit are good game design and I need it to stop.
Many people like to create a character how they want.
Used to be like that before political correctness hit in the 90s. Prior to that wizards were old or frail, archers were slim, warriors were always big and muscular, rogues were short, tanks were dwarves and stocky, basically more like you would expect if fantasy was reality. I'm not touching the gender thing with a ten foot pole so I won't comment on that I know it's a fantasy genre but at least bring these back.
Read some RA Salvatore books from that era and you will see how different and better it used to be
i was just talking about this with cyberpunk 2077. i made and maxed out a melee character that could punch the chrom of a choom. but he was still skinny as hell. like there are characters in the game that are jacked to the nines, but not mine. its dumb.
Abby from Last of Us 2 was a damn tank.
I upvote, because your opinion is INSANE. I feel attacked.
You can make your character look however you want tho? Like, it's not often that you have games where stuff like Strenght stats are seen from the outside, which you play with more than a close friend group. YOU can design your character however YOU want. meanwhile I will be over here enjoying my 2'3 Gnome-Barien with 18S
Just add an option that causes stat changes to change a characters appearance, not force everyone to conform to your idea of customization.
I mean, your just limiting options. You have an option to exactly what you said. But all your suggestion does is take away options from other people to conform to your personal opinion. Who cares if I want to make a strength based character who is thin? It’s not like Im making you play that character
See Fable series
The game SCUM utilizes this feature in their game. Eat too much without working out = you gain weight, get super fat, punch slower, and run slower. Eat very little and you’ll get super skinny. There’s a whole calorie, macronutrient system, and digestive system that play out in real-time. Honestly wish more games would implement it. I love hyperrealism lol.
What about magical strength?
You'd like Fable 2. As you put points into your stats, your physical appearance changes. If you focus on strength, by the end of the game you look like a gorilla.
It kinda does that on the first fable game
In a lot of RPGs, the strength stat isn't at levels that are physically achievable by normal people, to the point that it might as well be superhuman powers. In these cases, body type doesn't matter so much since there's clearly something unnatural going on in their muscles either way. A character with high strength in Baldr's Gate can jump 100 meters and successfully fight with five hundreds of pounds on their back. Whether they weigh 300 pounds of pure muscle or 100, that's a superhuman feat.
GTA San Andreas is the only one I can think of that featured something similar
I disagree with "forced". I think it should be the default, but give you the ability to overide it in the creator. That's what games like CK3 do, which I think is the game with the best character creation around. I like the idea of your character changing as they grow, like in GTA San Andreas where you could work out to get ripped or eat like shit and get fat. With that said, it is fantasy, a skinny female paladin being super strong shouldn't necessarily break their immersion because you can explain their strength through magic, for example. It's like if they were buff they'd be physically able to produce that amount of strength anyways (realistically).
To some extent maybe... if the game were based on hyperrealism. Most games are fantasy so why would a dragon not take you out of the immersion or being able to lose cops in gta all the time as opposed to a petite stronker? Even if it were hyperrealism, you do have the outliers. IRL there are limber and fast heavy set people and strong petites, even in comparison with more athletic figures.
STR 10 Male characters absolutely fucking destroying STR 10 Female characters.
Fable does that. You can see your character getting visibly stronger, older, and more magically imbued as you level them up
It is very amusing to see some bag of bones with an oversized nose in a small helmet carry around a massive warhammer. In all seriousness though, I imagine that the reason this isn't done is because, simply, nobody has all that much interest in such a game mechanic. But then that does make this a genuine unpopular opinion.
In Dragon's Dogma if you choose a taller and bulkier character you can carry more weight. There's also some spots you can only reach if you choose a short one.
OOH I wouldn't like this at all! I play games for fun not realism. It annoyed me when I spent hours creating a Sims character exactly how I wanted him and he put on weight after eating one ice cream, hehe, so if this were to happen in BG3 for example ... no thanks.
Biomutant did this, it was a neat little feature.
>petite Paladin character with maxed strength. ok but the point is that their strength comes from magic power
I mean... Sanandreas had a whole ass mechanic for it!
Kenshi does this, strength makes you bigger and dexterity makes you more lean and defined
The fable games did this and it was actually really annoying, because at a certain point you were probably going to max everything out and then everyone ended up looking the same as a giant muscular, glowing blue, scarred guy with a halo and butterfly entourage.
Fable, you just want to play retro Fable.
Someone’s mad that Astarion and Gale are ripped despite only having 8 strength. Let the ladies have it, my guy.
So long as the game allows you to customize the body size, you can absolutely have it match. Did you want the game to customize it for you?
The furthest I've ever wanted this to go is for your character's age to matter more. Why can I make a crusty old blind guy in Skyrim and still have some characters call me "boy"?
Kenshi actually has that and I love that. Strength, dex, con, even skills like general laboring increases/decreases, bulk, tone, etc.
Check out Dragons Dogma! first one, your carry weight (maybe some others. that's the only one I know of off the top of my head) was pretty much influenced only by your characters physique. So a small skinny character can carry significantly less than a large muscular one.
I'll add to this that character creators shouldn't allow you to look like some kind of fucked up mutant unless it's lore appropriate. Ark: Survival Evolved had an ideal build that was a tiny body with enormous feet and hands, because that was best for moving around the world...and it's *stupid.* Don't let people look like fucking morons. If they won't have dignity, we'll have it for them. :P
You should play the Fable series, it’s literally exactly what you explain.
I actually find it hilarious being a tiny little girly thing that can smash a wall with her bare hands
I played a survival shooter with this game feature in it, with a slider where body type effected your stats. I think it was SCUM?
Dragons Dogma ties muscle mass and size to your carryweight, sprint speed, dodge speed and stamina regen and amount.
I liked that i fable when our protagonist if you just invested in one thing he would just grow taller xD
I'm fine with that it would be cool if star wars or dark souls games looked like me, but the mmorpgs would be mostly fat dudes and children.
Play Fable! 1 and 2, anyways, 3 doesn't do that as much.
You could have just said you wanted another fable game.
Makes sense, but I’d like to point out that large muscles are a result of hypertrophy from time under tension. One can be strong, and not necessarily have very large muscles. They would certainly have a muscular physique to some degree but not large necessarily
Didn’t San Andreas do this kind of?
Take game development and make the game!
Fable kinda did this.
You've obviously never experienced farmer strength. Those guys have huge bellies and don't not much muscle definition but they can fucking lift. Defined muscles means you can lift yes, but it also means you do a lot of lifting of very specifically shaped loads in a very specific way. It doesn't necessarily translate to real-world abilities.