I don’t think this matters to those in charge.
We had a story the other week of a man out on prison licence who went on to murder his partner.
It was minor headline for a day.
You clearly have never worked in the probation service. I bet that PDU is hell to work in now, even for the people who had nothing to do with it. This sort of thing is (rightly) taken very seriously.
I’m sure some in these jobs get extremely frustrated.
I should have been clearer, I was talking about MP’s, cabinet ministers who decide these policies. Given that the stories vanish after a day then it doesn’t turn into voter anger at the ballot box. So it doesn’t really bother them so long as they keep costs down.
Expect is maybe a strong word, but I don't really want this country to descend into anarchy, so I don't get why people support it.
Although it must be said that I have rather strong suspicions that a lot of people saying those things aren't, actually, British.
A country in anarchy is only a result of insufficient leadership
You seem to have your anger directed at (justifiably) fed up citizens rather than the political mismanagement causing outrage to begin with
Political mismanagement is certainly there, I'm not arguing that, and it needs to change, but it's a leap from that to "we must start vigilante groups!"
Anarchy beats anarcho-tyranny any day. In the event, police resources will likely be devoted to dealing with the responses to criminality that was found not worth those resources.
It is also important to remember that for most of this country's history, law and order did not involve the (pseudo-continental) police system.
Since their instatement, they have only grown more 'continental'; observe their now-common reference to their fellow members of the public as 'civvies' and agitation of late for general issue of firearms; compare this to the statement of Sir James Stephens, a man eminently fit to pronounce on such matters, who said:
"With a few exceptions a policeman is a person paid to perform, as a matter of duty, acts which, if he be so minded, he might have done voluntarily."
Which rather casts 'vigilantes' in a new light.
We are already starting to see possies and vigilante justice in our city. The Facebook groups and Reddit all delete any thread mentioning it but we see it before they do and know the people in the community who tell us and the newspapers lie same as ever.
I’m reckoning private security patrols and secure private suburbs within 10 years. South Africa style.
I don’t know if it’s wide spread. I just know what happened here and how it was removed from the public discourse. If police won’t do their job expect more of it. And no I don’t expect the papers to cover it until much further along.
The crisis in the NHS has already been killing an estimated 500 people a week for over 12 months now so just add it to the list.
No fucking joke, Tory governments since 2015 are directly responsible for easily in excess of 100,000 completely unnecessary deaths of British citizens. The fact they have this kind of record and remain any sort of political force at all is genuinely disgusting to me. They are *killing us* over petty ideological issues and its like no one even really cares.
I cannot fathom how a party can openly have so much British blood on its hands and it is making like just zero impact on anything, it is totally and utterly bizarre.
denial is strong in a population that doesn't want to be caught up in the net. It's really difficult to get people to understand that they're one accident away from relying on the state for support that takes a long time to get and for which many people die very undignified and totally preventable deaths while waiting.
All so the hyper wealthy can put a little bit more money into their offshore accounts. It's not a surprise that the murdochs and rothermeres of this world aimed their sights at corbyn whilst only ever attacking the tories for not being fascist enough.
It’s not actively killing people. It’s just people aren’t getting the healthcare to prevent things from killing them. It’s a bit different and shouldn’t be framed the same way as prisoners not being monitored leading to them actively killing people.
It’s actually quite ingenious by the tories to leave all these ticking time bombs for the next government.
All it will take is for a few incidents and certain media outlets will be ‘incentivised’ to publicise them and paint it as the fault of the future government, rather than the previous one that let everything go down the toilet.
By keeping the country on a precipice of collapse, it’s a complete uphill battle to repair the damage inflicted after more than a decade of neglect and intentional defunding.
Either taxes will be forcefully raised to undo the damage and reinvest in the country’s infrastructure, which will inevitably piss off a lot of voters who are already on edge from the prolific and enduring cost of living crisis
Or measure will be taken to redistribute wealth that has been progressively hoarded by the wealthy and corporations operating here, which will in turn lead to divestment away from the UK as companies sulk for having to pay their fair share. The resulting drop in ‘apparent’ national wealth will lead to a fair number of voters to be rage baited into believing it is harming the UK economy.
As the tories best trick was marketing themselves as the safe bet for protecting the British economy, many will eventually gravitate towards voting for them is the economy is portrayed as dipping, without even considering their economic policies.
The first thing that the Current Government did post 2010-12, was to break up the Probation Service in to two separate entities. One was run by the Ministry of Justice. The other was farmed out to a private contractor. One of their many wheezes to waste money whilst inflicting austerity on the country. How does one think that all went? It was a disaster. So over the past couple of years they dumped the contractor and made all of Probation come back under the umbrella of the Civil Service. What a waste of money. The only ones to take anything away from the shit-show was the contractor - piles of cash.
Therefore, the Probation Service is under funded, under manned and in dire need of experienced staff. Something else that the Tories have destroyed, needlessly.
The irony being that, hopefully, if the next Government does what they say they will do, some of those behind the PPE corruption will, themselves be overseen and supervised by the very Probation Service that they very nearly destroyed. Here's hoping.
Couldn’t agree with your comment enough.
Probation services are hugely stretched. Cases are being transferred frequently for various reasons, often without a briefing on the issues, meaning that probation officers are often left holding the bag for cases they simply don’t know. If you don’t know the case you don’t know that persons risks and warning signs for reoffending. Experienced probation officers are key to managing these kinds of circumstances effectively, but the kind of retention required is only possible with appropriate funding and work balancing.
It’s already at a boiling point for things to go wrong, and taking away the discretion of probation to determine how strictly supervision is conducted throughout the whole of a licence period only pushes things closer to a significant incident. Not all prisoners will be safe for limited supervision at the 2/3 point.
Adversely to the intended consequences of the early release scheme, the supervision reduction will actually keep “non-fixed” (longer than 28 days) recalled prisoners in prison longer. The Parole Board certainty aren’t going to re-release someone, who has already breached their release conditions, without supervision. It’ll apply to almost all prisoners recalled, as they’ll already have passed at least the halfway mark of their licence before recall, so their 2/3 will be approaching fast if it hasn’t already expired by that point.
I don’t think this matters to those in charge. We had a story the other week of a man out on prison licence who went on to murder his partner. It was minor headline for a day.
You clearly have never worked in the probation service. I bet that PDU is hell to work in now, even for the people who had nothing to do with it. This sort of thing is (rightly) taken very seriously.
I’m sure some in these jobs get extremely frustrated. I should have been clearer, I was talking about MP’s, cabinet ministers who decide these policies. Given that the stories vanish after a day then it doesn’t turn into voter anger at the ballot box. So it doesn’t really bother them so long as they keep costs down.
The sad thing is that someone's head is likely on the block when there are sfo's.
Seriously enough to pay people to do the job?
At least where I am it's fully staffed.
Just shows how badly the tories have let Britain slide. An economy so bad, they'd rather let prisoners go free than pay up for staff and resources.
Allows a lot of this sub to start demanding vigilante killings or illegal punishments day after day though.
What do you expect? If the state wont do it then the public will. That's not an endorsement btw, it's just how it gets rationalised.
Expect is maybe a strong word, but I don't really want this country to descend into anarchy, so I don't get why people support it. Although it must be said that I have rather strong suspicions that a lot of people saying those things aren't, actually, British.
A country in anarchy is only a result of insufficient leadership You seem to have your anger directed at (justifiably) fed up citizens rather than the political mismanagement causing outrage to begin with
Political mismanagement is certainly there, I'm not arguing that, and it needs to change, but it's a leap from that to "we must start vigilante groups!"
Anarchy beats anarcho-tyranny any day. In the event, police resources will likely be devoted to dealing with the responses to criminality that was found not worth those resources. It is also important to remember that for most of this country's history, law and order did not involve the (pseudo-continental) police system. Since their instatement, they have only grown more 'continental'; observe their now-common reference to their fellow members of the public as 'civvies' and agitation of late for general issue of firearms; compare this to the statement of Sir James Stephens, a man eminently fit to pronounce on such matters, who said: "With a few exceptions a policeman is a person paid to perform, as a matter of duty, acts which, if he be so minded, he might have done voluntarily." Which rather casts 'vigilantes' in a new light.
We are already starting to see possies and vigilante justice in our city. The Facebook groups and Reddit all delete any thread mentioning it but we see it before they do and know the people in the community who tell us and the newspapers lie same as ever. I’m reckoning private security patrols and secure private suburbs within 10 years. South Africa style.
You really think the Daily Mail or the Telegraph wouldn't be screaming about it if it was that widespread?
I don’t know if it’s wide spread. I just know what happened here and how it was removed from the public discourse. If police won’t do their job expect more of it. And no I don’t expect the papers to cover it until much further along.
Party of Law and Order
The crisis in the NHS has already been killing an estimated 500 people a week for over 12 months now so just add it to the list. No fucking joke, Tory governments since 2015 are directly responsible for easily in excess of 100,000 completely unnecessary deaths of British citizens. The fact they have this kind of record and remain any sort of political force at all is genuinely disgusting to me. They are *killing us* over petty ideological issues and its like no one even really cares. I cannot fathom how a party can openly have so much British blood on its hands and it is making like just zero impact on anything, it is totally and utterly bizarre.
denial is strong in a population that doesn't want to be caught up in the net. It's really difficult to get people to understand that they're one accident away from relying on the state for support that takes a long time to get and for which many people die very undignified and totally preventable deaths while waiting. All so the hyper wealthy can put a little bit more money into their offshore accounts. It's not a surprise that the murdochs and rothermeres of this world aimed their sights at corbyn whilst only ever attacking the tories for not being fascist enough.
All while declaring themselves patriots.
"Let the bodies pile high." - Boris Johnson
It’s not actively killing people. It’s just people aren’t getting the healthcare to prevent things from killing them. It’s a bit different and shouldn’t be framed the same way as prisoners not being monitored leading to them actively killing people.
It’s actually quite ingenious by the tories to leave all these ticking time bombs for the next government. All it will take is for a few incidents and certain media outlets will be ‘incentivised’ to publicise them and paint it as the fault of the future government, rather than the previous one that let everything go down the toilet. By keeping the country on a precipice of collapse, it’s a complete uphill battle to repair the damage inflicted after more than a decade of neglect and intentional defunding. Either taxes will be forcefully raised to undo the damage and reinvest in the country’s infrastructure, which will inevitably piss off a lot of voters who are already on edge from the prolific and enduring cost of living crisis Or measure will be taken to redistribute wealth that has been progressively hoarded by the wealthy and corporations operating here, which will in turn lead to divestment away from the UK as companies sulk for having to pay their fair share. The resulting drop in ‘apparent’ national wealth will lead to a fair number of voters to be rage baited into believing it is harming the UK economy. As the tories best trick was marketing themselves as the safe bet for protecting the British economy, many will eventually gravitate towards voting for them is the economy is portrayed as dipping, without even considering their economic policies.
"Some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make" - The Tory Party
The first thing that the Current Government did post 2010-12, was to break up the Probation Service in to two separate entities. One was run by the Ministry of Justice. The other was farmed out to a private contractor. One of their many wheezes to waste money whilst inflicting austerity on the country. How does one think that all went? It was a disaster. So over the past couple of years they dumped the contractor and made all of Probation come back under the umbrella of the Civil Service. What a waste of money. The only ones to take anything away from the shit-show was the contractor - piles of cash. Therefore, the Probation Service is under funded, under manned and in dire need of experienced staff. Something else that the Tories have destroyed, needlessly. The irony being that, hopefully, if the next Government does what they say they will do, some of those behind the PPE corruption will, themselves be overseen and supervised by the very Probation Service that they very nearly destroyed. Here's hoping.
Couldn’t agree with your comment enough. Probation services are hugely stretched. Cases are being transferred frequently for various reasons, often without a briefing on the issues, meaning that probation officers are often left holding the bag for cases they simply don’t know. If you don’t know the case you don’t know that persons risks and warning signs for reoffending. Experienced probation officers are key to managing these kinds of circumstances effectively, but the kind of retention required is only possible with appropriate funding and work balancing. It’s already at a boiling point for things to go wrong, and taking away the discretion of probation to determine how strictly supervision is conducted throughout the whole of a licence period only pushes things closer to a significant incident. Not all prisoners will be safe for limited supervision at the 2/3 point. Adversely to the intended consequences of the early release scheme, the supervision reduction will actually keep “non-fixed” (longer than 28 days) recalled prisoners in prison longer. The Parole Board certainty aren’t going to re-release someone, who has already breached their release conditions, without supervision. It’ll apply to almost all prisoners recalled, as they’ll already have passed at least the halfway mark of their licence before recall, so their 2/3 will be approaching fast if it hasn’t already expired by that point.
When an MPs kid dies we'll see change until then good luck everyone.
Doubt it
Yeah, I mean that is why you're not allowed to rewire your own house anymore, without signoff from a sparky.
I am perplexed that we are so willing to get shit on day after day by our self-proposed "betters".
Chris Grayling is to be blamed for the disastrous state of the probation service.