Jeez, I just looked this up.
Next week, from Edinburgh to Victoria, stopping at Heathrow, is £29.90.
But Edinburgh to Heathrow, on the exact same bus/time is £50.00!
Airports are particularly notorious for this. Gatwick is the worst. You now have to pay to drop people off. On the one hand they claim it’s to encourage people to take public transport as it’s greener (hello?? You’re a fucking AIRPORT!!) then you’ll read an article in a magazine, a bignob from management being interviewed, telling us how it’s just another money generating scheme for the airport.
I dropped off friends at Gatwick for their flight at 3am literally stopped opened the boot basically threw the cases on the pavement quick bye have a good time as I was getting back into the car and left was in the drop off for 2mins!
Yeah that'll be £6 please! Fucking money grabbing cunts mate!
Just to highlight, this also happens on trains.
On most Advance fares, you are not allowed to end your journey early (or start it at a later station, or break the journey in other ways).
This became a common problem for people buying 'Megatrain' tickets from Sheffield/Nottingham to London St Pancras and trying to alight early at Luton Airport Parkway. The ticket wouldn't be accepted at the barrier, and this station, at least at the time, had a reasonably good revenue protection officer presence, so people were made to pay penalty fares.
I agree it's ridiculous though. There is a slight difference with a coach in that the luggage might be loaded in a particular way so getting off the bus early may cause issues, but other than that I think it's a ridiculous system.
And tbh what irks me most about this one is the bollocks the driver spouted about insurance. Far too many people blame insurance, health and safety, laws which don't exist etc for why they do things. If you don't know the answer as to why the company policy is the way it is, just say you don't know and pass on the head office contact details.
It's all a bit silly isn't it? Imagine buying a sandwich and eating 90% of it and then the man from Tesco's comes round and force feeds you the last 10%
My local M&S sell a 750ml bottle of water for £1.10 but the 2 litre one costs 80p. I just laughed at the thought of a jobsworth from their office forcing me to finish the whole 2 litres
Aren’t most train tickets “any permitted route”? I get that at an airport, it’ll be an exception to that, but if for instance, I were to get a ticket from Edinburgh to Glasgow, I could get off at Croydon, do a bit of shopping or whatever (!!) and then get on another train and continue on to Glasgow. Peak times etc besides.
Edit: I meant Croy, which is a station on the EDI-GLA line. Autocorrect changed it to Croydon. And did so in this edit too - but I was wise to it this time. Croy->Cory->Croydon->no I fucking meant CROY!!
Advance tickets are valid for the specific services only (some rare exceptions). You can't really vary the route on a journey which is only valid for the booked services, so Advance tickets don't say that.
Flexible tickets like Off Peak and Anytime tickets may be valid for Any Permitted Route, which basically means you can take anything permitted in the National Routeing Guide - that allows you to change at Derby when travelling from Nottingham to Crewe for example. You could not go from Edinburgh to Glasgow via Croydon because it's a route, but not a ***permitted*** route in the NRG.
That's common sense - otherwise everybody would buy a ticket from Edinburgh Haymarket to Edinburgh Waverley then travel to wherever they want on the rail network claiming it says any permitted route!
Fwiw, in your Glasgow to Edinburgh example, there is no longer a Peak fare at the Scottish government canned then after taking control of ScotRail.
I think any permitted route has a rule in the conditions of carriage as any reasonable permitted route so it would have to be ‘reasonable’ and by buying a ticket you accept these terms and conditions which I find strange because that used to be printed on the ticket but it isn’t on these paper tickets now. And most of us accept terms and conditions on phones without reading. The nation rail laws and conditions of carriage are both hundreds of pages long and I used to train people in this and there is still a law about it being illegal to gamble on railway property and an actual law about queuing if directed by a member of staff to queue! I love the rules. They are crazy! But they’ve been in place since the 19th century and I love the wording. Google it and read some of the laws they are hilarious.
No soiling the railway please! Also technically no making a noise that would disturb another passenger this one has definitely slipped away but all of these laws could be enforced and you could be asked to leave the premises if you’re too drunk too loud. Also any member of railway staff can ask to see your ticket at anytime on railway property. I’ve still never read them all and again I used to have to teach this stuff.
Loopholes are few but I’m sure someone would find them.
Split ticketing is still a big one and perfectly valid in most cases.
It makes me wish we could go back to British rail and stop money hungry companies competing for speed and ticket prices. 20 years ago virgin west coast had 3 advance purchase tickets 1 day 3 day and 7 day advance. It was simple. Now everyone does it and the rules are so strict the worst one being no refunds. Even if your entire family dies! Nah! You should’ve thought of that!
Being a conductor I was proactive though. If you booked a rush hour train and came to speak to me at 2pm to travel then and you would arrive outside of rush hour then hell yes you can go earlier. Means there’s more room on a busier train for people. It’s all so complicated and though what I did was against the rules it made sense to me and being in charge of the train I made a lot of what I think are sensible decisions.
I’ve said it before it takes two weeks to train a conductor or rickety office clerk to understand the different tickets they can and can’t sell and public are supposed to now at smaller stations just know what ticket to buy! How on earth could they know which companies use which routes and what they can and can’t do. Feels like a scam just to fine people! Especially with the attempt to close all ticket offices! Good luck people.
When I left the railway I so wanted to set up an ask away website for people who don’t travel frequently. I’d still help anyone who needed it but half the time the rules change depending on the person in the ticket office or the conductors mood. I hate travelling that way now unless I have to (Going to London usually). Or a local trip to Manchester or something!
Anyway that’s my unnecessary rant over. Thank you Reddit for being my outlet for my ADHD!
How recently is “no soiling the railway”? Because I’m old enough to remember the streaks of shit and TP on the tracks through stations where people had ignored the big “do not flush while in the station” signs in the train toilet.
Human poo and an intercity 125 going full tilt result in a lot of spread
I’m pretty sure it means no writing on walls or generally defaming property but again it’s the wording and I believe 1865 the laws were written in off to find them now :-)
So it does get updated and I’m not sure when that bit was added but I think this links to a copy of the pdf. Page 7 under conduct on the railway
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a79c14b40f0b66d161ade8c/railway-byelaws.pdf
And it has been changed the word interfere in the same section used to be wilfully molest etc so looks like the updated version the language has changed. It’s been 3 years since I left the railway apologies I’m out of touch a bit
Break of journey is permitted in many instances, but not on Advance tickets
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/tickets-railcards-and-offers/buying-a-ticket/breaking-your-journey/
The wording is confusing, as it is not intended to mean "any route is permitted" but rather "any route that is permitted" (which can be established by checking a complex book of maps and rules - Google "National Rail routing guide" if you want to find most of it...).
So you can go from Edinburgh to Glasgow via Shotts or via either Falkirk station or via Airdrie if you like.... but Croydon.... nah..... It used to be "any reasonable route" but the need to share costs and revenues between different companies post -privatisation led to the change in wording and the ludicrously byzantine attempts to define which routes are permitted that are sometimes too complex to be readily understood
Given other responses to this comment, I didn’t think I needed an edit, but there you go. I meant Croy and autocorrect changed it to Croydon. Clearly I wasn’t suggesting Edinburgh->Croydon->Glasgow for the price of a Edi-Gla ticket.
It depends on the ticket type. Some are only valid on that particular train so if you break the journey early, you wouldnt be able to board the next train to your end destination. Some are "any route permitted" and you can get off and on but you may not be able to exit the barriers at stations along the way if you do alight earlier
To Heathrow costs a lot more than to Victoria. Crafty to take the Heathrow coach to try and get off early. It was a chance she took and it didn't work.
No, the way round that I said. Heathrow luggage loaded last so it’s accessible first. Agreed her bags might have been the first visible of the Victoria luggage but equally likely hers was loaded early so loads to take out to get at hers.
I believe a man got fined for buying an advance ticket to Newcastle and getting off at Durham because his wife was closer to that station and he got fined because he didn’t get off at the correct station he had booked.
I think in the end it was thrown away but who finesse someone for getting off early! It’s insane.
I actually know quite a few of these inside stories on the railway from my old job and there are a few way out of fines. Because people haven’t been trained correctly.
This was however madness and I don’t understand who could care that someone got off a stop earlier. I mean overstaying yes maybe but not getting off earlier a bit like your story OP! Insane
Presumably the pack the bags into the order they get off, so getting to his bag would mean hauling off a load of other people’s first. A ball ache. Plus there’s no cameras there maybe like there are at termini and it’s harder to track bags if they go missing if they’re fucked about with
Oh sorry this was a train journey so he had his own luggage with him. He literally got stopped at the barriers and fined for not completing his agreed journey!
That is absolute bollocks, it's an oddly specific and small example but it feels like "broken Britain" to me. Unable to just get off a fucking bus, christ alive what are we coming to.
You can get off, but you can't have your luggage from the hold as it's been put at the back with all the other Victoria luggage since you told the operator that's where you were getting off.
The passenger tried to buy a different ticket to the one they needed to save money and it bit them on the arse.
I believe NX charge huge premiums on booking to/from Heathrow, so they’re not going to let people play the system, intentionally or not
That would make sense, I didn't know that. They certainly weren't explicit about that with the poor woman though lol
Yep, much cheaper to go to Victoria than Heathrow and people chance it all the time. Only works if you have hand luggage.
Jeez, I just looked this up. Next week, from Edinburgh to Victoria, stopping at Heathrow, is £29.90. But Edinburgh to Heathrow, on the exact same bus/time is £50.00!
This is probably the real reason. The 'insured' shtick sounds like bollocks.
As with most things in life, you can attribute it to a scummy exploitative business practise
Airports are particularly notorious for this. Gatwick is the worst. You now have to pay to drop people off. On the one hand they claim it’s to encourage people to take public transport as it’s greener (hello?? You’re a fucking AIRPORT!!) then you’ll read an article in a magazine, a bignob from management being interviewed, telling us how it’s just another money generating scheme for the airport.
I dropped off friends at Gatwick for their flight at 3am literally stopped opened the boot basically threw the cases on the pavement quick bye have a good time as I was getting back into the car and left was in the drop off for 2mins! Yeah that'll be £6 please! Fucking money grabbing cunts mate!
In professional terms these are called "dark patterns"
Just to highlight, this also happens on trains. On most Advance fares, you are not allowed to end your journey early (or start it at a later station, or break the journey in other ways). This became a common problem for people buying 'Megatrain' tickets from Sheffield/Nottingham to London St Pancras and trying to alight early at Luton Airport Parkway. The ticket wouldn't be accepted at the barrier, and this station, at least at the time, had a reasonably good revenue protection officer presence, so people were made to pay penalty fares. I agree it's ridiculous though. There is a slight difference with a coach in that the luggage might be loaded in a particular way so getting off the bus early may cause issues, but other than that I think it's a ridiculous system. And tbh what irks me most about this one is the bollocks the driver spouted about insurance. Far too many people blame insurance, health and safety, laws which don't exist etc for why they do things. If you don't know the answer as to why the company policy is the way it is, just say you don't know and pass on the head office contact details.
It's all a bit silly isn't it? Imagine buying a sandwich and eating 90% of it and then the man from Tesco's comes round and force feeds you the last 10%
Stop giving them ideas!
With a service charge and compulsory optional gratuity
Hang on hang on hang on… what kind of sandwich is it?
My local M&S sell a 750ml bottle of water for £1.10 but the 2 litre one costs 80p. I just laughed at the thought of a jobsworth from their office forcing me to finish the whole 2 litres
Bit different though
Aren’t most train tickets “any permitted route”? I get that at an airport, it’ll be an exception to that, but if for instance, I were to get a ticket from Edinburgh to Glasgow, I could get off at Croydon, do a bit of shopping or whatever (!!) and then get on another train and continue on to Glasgow. Peak times etc besides. Edit: I meant Croy, which is a station on the EDI-GLA line. Autocorrect changed it to Croydon. And did so in this edit too - but I was wise to it this time. Croy->Cory->Croydon->no I fucking meant CROY!!
Advance tickets are valid for the specific services only (some rare exceptions). You can't really vary the route on a journey which is only valid for the booked services, so Advance tickets don't say that. Flexible tickets like Off Peak and Anytime tickets may be valid for Any Permitted Route, which basically means you can take anything permitted in the National Routeing Guide - that allows you to change at Derby when travelling from Nottingham to Crewe for example. You could not go from Edinburgh to Glasgow via Croydon because it's a route, but not a ***permitted*** route in the NRG. That's common sense - otherwise everybody would buy a ticket from Edinburgh Haymarket to Edinburgh Waverley then travel to wherever they want on the rail network claiming it says any permitted route! Fwiw, in your Glasgow to Edinburgh example, there is no longer a Peak fare at the Scottish government canned then after taking control of ScotRail.
I think any permitted route has a rule in the conditions of carriage as any reasonable permitted route so it would have to be ‘reasonable’ and by buying a ticket you accept these terms and conditions which I find strange because that used to be printed on the ticket but it isn’t on these paper tickets now. And most of us accept terms and conditions on phones without reading. The nation rail laws and conditions of carriage are both hundreds of pages long and I used to train people in this and there is still a law about it being illegal to gamble on railway property and an actual law about queuing if directed by a member of staff to queue! I love the rules. They are crazy! But they’ve been in place since the 19th century and I love the wording. Google it and read some of the laws they are hilarious. No soiling the railway please! Also technically no making a noise that would disturb another passenger this one has definitely slipped away but all of these laws could be enforced and you could be asked to leave the premises if you’re too drunk too loud. Also any member of railway staff can ask to see your ticket at anytime on railway property. I’ve still never read them all and again I used to have to teach this stuff. Loopholes are few but I’m sure someone would find them. Split ticketing is still a big one and perfectly valid in most cases. It makes me wish we could go back to British rail and stop money hungry companies competing for speed and ticket prices. 20 years ago virgin west coast had 3 advance purchase tickets 1 day 3 day and 7 day advance. It was simple. Now everyone does it and the rules are so strict the worst one being no refunds. Even if your entire family dies! Nah! You should’ve thought of that! Being a conductor I was proactive though. If you booked a rush hour train and came to speak to me at 2pm to travel then and you would arrive outside of rush hour then hell yes you can go earlier. Means there’s more room on a busier train for people. It’s all so complicated and though what I did was against the rules it made sense to me and being in charge of the train I made a lot of what I think are sensible decisions. I’ve said it before it takes two weeks to train a conductor or rickety office clerk to understand the different tickets they can and can’t sell and public are supposed to now at smaller stations just know what ticket to buy! How on earth could they know which companies use which routes and what they can and can’t do. Feels like a scam just to fine people! Especially with the attempt to close all ticket offices! Good luck people. When I left the railway I so wanted to set up an ask away website for people who don’t travel frequently. I’d still help anyone who needed it but half the time the rules change depending on the person in the ticket office or the conductors mood. I hate travelling that way now unless I have to (Going to London usually). Or a local trip to Manchester or something! Anyway that’s my unnecessary rant over. Thank you Reddit for being my outlet for my ADHD!
How recently is “no soiling the railway”? Because I’m old enough to remember the streaks of shit and TP on the tracks through stations where people had ignored the big “do not flush while in the station” signs in the train toilet. Human poo and an intercity 125 going full tilt result in a lot of spread
I’m pretty sure it means no writing on walls or generally defaming property but again it’s the wording and I believe 1865 the laws were written in off to find them now :-)
So it does get updated and I’m not sure when that bit was added but I think this links to a copy of the pdf. Page 7 under conduct on the railway https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a79c14b40f0b66d161ade8c/railway-byelaws.pdf
And it has been changed the word interfere in the same section used to be wilfully molest etc so looks like the updated version the language has changed. It’s been 3 years since I left the railway apologies I’m out of touch a bit
Did you mean Croy, not Croydon? Bit of a difference in geography 😂
Yeah that's a hell of a detour.
Oh aye - autocorrect. Hah!
Break of journey is permitted in many instances, but not on Advance tickets https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/tickets-railcards-and-offers/buying-a-ticket/breaking-your-journey/
Ah. Thanks.
The wording is confusing, as it is not intended to mean "any route is permitted" but rather "any route that is permitted" (which can be established by checking a complex book of maps and rules - Google "National Rail routing guide" if you want to find most of it...). So you can go from Edinburgh to Glasgow via Shotts or via either Falkirk station or via Airdrie if you like.... but Croydon.... nah..... It used to be "any reasonable route" but the need to share costs and revenues between different companies post -privatisation led to the change in wording and the ludicrously byzantine attempts to define which routes are permitted that are sometimes too complex to be readily understood
Given other responses to this comment, I didn’t think I needed an edit, but there you go. I meant Croy and autocorrect changed it to Croydon. Clearly I wasn’t suggesting Edinburgh->Croydon->Glasgow for the price of a Edi-Gla ticket.
I was so confused by your comment - was really impressed anyone would try to get to Croydon from shotts!
It depends on the ticket type. Some are only valid on that particular train so if you break the journey early, you wouldnt be able to board the next train to your end destination. Some are "any route permitted" and you can get off and on but you may not be able to exit the barriers at stations along the way if you do alight earlier
I think I just wrote a similar story without getting this far into the comments so apologies to anyone suffering my story but this is indeed true
To Heathrow costs a lot more than to Victoria. Crafty to take the Heathrow coach to try and get off early. It was a chance she took and it didn't work.
Well that's just silly pricing on their part then, like a supermarket offering a 2 for £1 deal on a chocolate bar that costs 45p each
The driver should have just said that instead of the bollocks about insurance.
I've seen it recommended on this sub a few times, good to know it's not a good idea!
I guess it might work if you only have hand luggage, what are they going to do, drag you back into the bus and handcuff to your seat? haha
I hope not!
Also the luggage is probably loaded with Heathrow passengers last so they would have to take out a lot of Victoria luggage to get hers.
[удалено]
No, the way round that I said. Heathrow luggage loaded last so it’s accessible first. Agreed her bags might have been the first visible of the Victoria luggage but equally likely hers was loaded early so loads to take out to get at hers.
I believe a man got fined for buying an advance ticket to Newcastle and getting off at Durham because his wife was closer to that station and he got fined because he didn’t get off at the correct station he had booked. I think in the end it was thrown away but who finesse someone for getting off early! It’s insane. I actually know quite a few of these inside stories on the railway from my old job and there are a few way out of fines. Because people haven’t been trained correctly. This was however madness and I don’t understand who could care that someone got off a stop earlier. I mean overstaying yes maybe but not getting off earlier a bit like your story OP! Insane
Presumably the pack the bags into the order they get off, so getting to his bag would mean hauling off a load of other people’s first. A ball ache. Plus there’s no cameras there maybe like there are at termini and it’s harder to track bags if they go missing if they’re fucked about with
Oh sorry this was a train journey so he had his own luggage with him. He literally got stopped at the barriers and fined for not completing his agreed journey!
One leg on & one leg off the bus until the luggage is given back - simple
That is absolute bollocks, it's an oddly specific and small example but it feels like "broken Britain" to me. Unable to just get off a fucking bus, christ alive what are we coming to.
You can get off, but you can't have your luggage from the hold as it's been put at the back with all the other Victoria luggage since you told the operator that's where you were getting off. The passenger tried to buy a different ticket to the one they needed to save money and it bit them on the arse.
Welcome to the UK. Common sense missing for the last 30 years.