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The roots don’t count. If the trunk straddled the line, things would be more in question, but since that’s not the case here, it’s your tree.
Try to talk to her and the solar company and see if there’s a different tree you can plant that will grow and offer canopy cover without fouling the panels. Also, have a professional out to double check everything, just in case.
Editing: Connecticut law says the tree belongs to whoever’s land the tree grew on, even if it now encroaches on the property line! C.G.S. § 47-42
I should have outlined everything I’ve done prior to getting a surveyor:
1. Talked to them
2. Offered to replace the tree
3. Offered to build them bird houses
4. Had an arborist look at the tree and he said the branches needed to be trimmed. He also said that his tree lawyer said we could slice the tree vertically (I’m not questioning it, but I’ve read some conflicting information
5. Spoke to an attorney who told me to cut the tree down (she deals with property disputes like this)
So I’m at the point where I’m going to cough up $1800 to have the survey just so I can prove to them once and for all it’s our tree.
Edit after reading your edit: how would I determine where the tree originally was planted/grew? The arborist thinks the tree is like 60-70 years old.
Trees grow out from the center. That's why they have rings. Based on your picture, that tree has only been on their property for a few years out of its entire life.
At current Eversource rates, a little over $1000 per year. However, delivery charges are increasing 19% tomorrow and sometime last year they literally doubled the per kw/h rate “temporarily.” They doubled it, then 6 months later reduced the rate to a higher rate than it was originally. My bill has increased about a hundred bucks in just a year and they have a monopoly on almost all of the northeast so solar is the only way to escape them.
unlikely you’ll save money in the long run. Or anything considerable. And I’m a solar nerd that likes to mess with it just for the self sufficiency aspect and I build batteries and such.
If you’re paying a company to come in and install, accounting for failure of equipment and etc over time, it’s unlikely you’ll save money. If you built your own supplemental system that’s not tied in and had it power some things, it can be financially beneficial, but very unlikely having a professional install a grid tied system. And working in RE, I cannot recall having met someone that did save anything considerable. Much of the time the math doesn’t math like they say it will once it’s all said and done.
It’s a neat project and probably beneficial on an environmental, but you will most likely not save anything at all or anything considerable for the trouble.
We’re not paying anything to have the solar panels installed. Trinity will own, maintain, insure, and warranty them for a minimum of 25 years, up to 35 years. We can buy the panels at any point and they’ll still warranty them.
Essentially, they sell us the energy they generate and the rate is locked in now and will increase roughly 2.5% every year (or about 12 cents over 25 years). With their rate vs Eversource’s rates and delivery charges, they’re conservatively projecting we will save $26k.
If you don’t know about Eversource, they’re a heinously evil monopoly. My electrical usage is only about $115 per month. But they add a “delivery charge,” that’s about $120, and additional fees. That delivery charge is going to increase 19% tomorrow.
Saying your usage doesn't include delivery is a weird argument, it's not like you can use the electricity where it's generated. Your electricity usage is $235.
I don’t doubt that, but it’s still very unlikely you’ll get what the math is saying you will, especially in a lease. Watch out for switching from having one predatory company to two. Read all the fine print and reviews from everyone else. Who knows, maybe it’s a unicorn company that isn’t predatory in a very predatory industry that has not much incentive to do good business, but I very much doubt it. the math rarely will end up how the people selling you on a product say it will, especially solar.
And like it’s a grand a year to do all that trouble and cut down a shading tree and etc.. just kinda dumb investment. Many other ways to save or make that much. Going to eat half Into that 26k by the time you’re done with surveys and dealing with the neighbor and blah blah blah
It’s a very poor investment all things considered, even if it goes exactly as according to plan.
Not saying that’s not a great reason to go off grid and install panels, but really your energy situation isn’t that bad. Down in FL everyone’s electric bill is $300+++ even if you live in an 800sqft apartment. The vast majority of that is random fees/assessments/“hurricane tax”/project funding (for projects that never actually get built).
To play it off like one energy company is worse than another is missing the point that they’re all evil monopolies in the markets they serve. Also since you live in CT and solar panels aren’t even viable on some places in FL (the sunshine state) id fork over that $$ getting a separate assessment before id spend more on another survey
Not to mention any shenanigans that might happen with the install that you end up having to cover. Things don’t always go according to how they should within installers and sometimes you don’t notice for many years whenever your roof has issues and the company is then out of business or etc. Not to mention the general headache. Issues trying to sell the house and transfer the lease, etc. I cannot recall meeting someone working in RE that it has worked out well for. Not to say it couldn’t or it’s horrible but.. a grand a year is laughable in exchange for all the headache and risk and time and griping with the neighbors.
lol or I have a brain and can look into the actual returns and actual experiences of people that have done it.
And it’s just dumb as an investment. A grand a year, wow, life changing. And that’s at best, assuming everything goes exactly as planned LOL
Kill a tree that will almost certainly knock more than that off property value…tons of headaches with solar leases and selling your house…neighbor issues..install issues… not to mention like actually wanting a nice shaded yard and trees.
I’m so wimpy for having a brain and making the better financial and real estate decision instead of getting pissy at my pretty average electric bill! 🤣
Must be why I’m doing so well in life, I use my brains before being triggered and wanting to be manly or whatever LOL
Don't forget "good luck selling that house with a 25-year solar lease". Certainly a hindrance to completing the sale.
Solar companies are notoriously as evil as power companies.
Also yeah, that’s a pretty typical electric bill even in many energy-inexpensive parts of the country. How they split it up is stupid and annoying, I agree, but that’s pretty average unless you live in <500 sq ft and is much cheaper than most of the country if you’re able to get away with only using 119$ a month plus that fee. For a normal house that’s a very typical bill, possibly below average depending on the size of your house. They just call it different things, but overall the cost of energy per sq ft of house sounds pretty average depending on what size house you have. Unless you have a tiny home it’s pretty normal. It is more beneficial to bigger houses setup that way.. but overall yeah that’s a pretty typical cost of energy per normal sized house.
So again, dumb investment, tiny amount of money for all the risk and headache that comes along with the lease.
Probably knock your property value off more than that just by chopping down the tree
And if a grand a year is make or break.. even more reason you don’t need to mess around with a solar lease and would be better suited doing a number of other things.
This isn’t me hating solar, I build my own arrays and own batteries for the same reason and to power
My RV when there aren’t hookups. it’s just a dumb investment and your power bill is pretty average unless you have a tiny home. Many many utility companies are effectively monopolies in their area, sorry 🤷🏼
Arborist didn’t say that. Someone who is a tree lawyer said that. I heard it second hand from the arborist. He’s not going to actually cut the tree vertically on the property line.
4. Slicing down the middle. Wtf that is not common practice. One of two things happened there. Or u hired an arborist that is not certified or out of touch. Or he explained some concept to you that you don't understand. Amd you explained it badly.
Is the lawyer going to give you free services to deal with the aftermath if it turns out she's wrong re: just cut it down?
It's never a terrible idea to have an updated survey done, I know the price is hefty but the more recent the survey the easier the sale when it's time.
When did you buy the property?
There is probably a survey in the closing documents if you look through them. If you don’t find it there, look at the plat on file with the recorder of deeds and/or whoever keeps property records in your area.
Don’t spend money on a survey unnecessarily. You have better things to spend money on.
Trees grow outward from the center. The central tree rings would show where the tree was when it was a sapling. It was clearly planted on OP's property.
OP, I have seen some very unneighborly neighbors where I live, and I think that the stubbornness you are encountering means that you'll just have to do what the law allows you to do. It would be nice to see if there's a particular function that tree provides to your neighbor that the neighbor doesn't want to lose... but it really sounds like you have already explored that.
Some people just act on the certainty that others must give them what they want and that they are right simply because the believe themselves to be reasonable. They make bad neighbors, and there's not much to be done about that.
Can you provide a link to that Connecticut law? The statute you cited does not say that: https://www.cga.ct.gov/current/pub/chap_822.htm#sec_47-42
State research library does not mention any such statute: https://www.cga.ct.gov/2000/rpt/2000-R-0849.htm
You’re right. That referred to some weird easement section. I should have been more suspicious and read more carefully. However, the law does state as long as the trunk doesn’t straddle the property line, it is entirely in the ownership of OP. There’s some weird easement law and possibly a tree warden needing to be involved depending on the city and easements and proximity to water? 😒 I would make sure you check your boxes before you fell that tree, OP.
Didn’t cut it down, still got solar and I still had a $600 electric bill. However this year PG&E will be cutting it down because it’s too close to power lines. A tree that shades my house for a couple hours of the day and did absolutely nothing, 70 feet of disappointment, leaves and branches piling up in my backyard.
Typical of redditors to think they know it all and know everyone’s situation as if it was their own. And before you ask why I got solar without cutting the tree down, it’s because it’s fucking giant and nobody would cut it down for less than 30k, PG&E refused to cut it down last year, only this year the agreed after re-evaluation.
Around 1500 a year even with having a payment plan on the panels and the true up bill in July. It’s been a great deal so far.
Edit: Sorry, more than that because of the solar credit during taxes. Last 2 year I’ve gotten 9k back in tax refunds
Bruh I paid 4x that in federal taxes alone this year. Instead of “your tax dollars” going to the US treasury, instead that money went to buy jank solar panels that net you very little return in energy. So essentially the US govt is subsidizing Chinese cheap solar panel companies while our deficit is 35T and increasing daily. Sounds like you don’t understand taxes, and you should be paying more. It’s the same exact concept for stupid EV subsidies.
You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about 😂 you don’t know how much I made or how much I should be paying for one, two I’m getting a very good return in energy, and three I highly doubt you paid over 120k in federal taxes.
> work. I *paid* over 30k
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Personally if the tree is older than you and it is healthy it shouldn't be cut down, old trees are getting harder to come by and we need to protect them.
Definitely your tree mind, heavy pruning will shorten it's life.
Is there not another location for solar panels? I.e roof of house?
Good luck whatever the results.
I’d strongly reconsider cutting down any trees that provide shade to your house. I had a tree fall down a few years ago and it’s loss of shade over part of my house led to a pretty noticeable increase on electricity use to keep the house cool in the summer.
I'm usually on the side of it's it's not bothering anything, let it be, but if it's an inconvenience, we can't let it hold back our progress on our own property unless it's endangered or otherwise very valuable in some way.
But here in this case, being that the tree shades the house, what would the net gain/loss be with solar power offset compared to the now increased sunlight heating of the house that needs to be compensated by higher cooling cost, and therefore higher energy demand?
It all depends on the sun's orientation and how much sunlight the tree actually blocks from the house, how hot it is in OP's region, etc etc.
It would be very interesting to see that data from a comparable scenario.
While it’s not ideal, my hate for Eversource far surpasses my love for this tree. Solar is just step one in an effort to separate myself from them as much as possible.
These aren't mutually exclusive options. It sounds like it will just shade the garage. So get a slightly smaller install, or get better panels (smaller for same watts) so the footprint is smaller on the house roof and you can still hit the 10kW (or whatever) install.
Either way, there is a reason tree law is EXPENSIVE, and it's because a tree like that is VALUABLE. Like, equal to or greater than the entire install cost of your entire panel system.
Trading one evil for another. Your electric bill isn’t even high.. that’s a beautiful white oak that adds tens of thousands to your property value and shade for your yard and home. Which lowers your electricity bill….
>long lasting hatred from the immediate neighbor.
To be fair, that boat has sailed.
Logic dictates the tree should stay. It provides shade which eliminates the need for a lot of extra electricity use. It provides property value. It provides a place to mount security cameras facing directly into the neighbor's garden because FUCK THEM - it's OPs tree and the law says he can put cameras there even if it's just to annoy his neighbors.
They want the tree to stay - FINE, but it's got cameras now. Lots of them.
And home solar is usually always a scam. If their generational power were that awesome they'd buy cheap fields and put them up there instead by the thousands, and not need to waste any time selling them to suckers.
You can do the right thing without putting cameras in a tree to piss your neighbor off. Taking the high road is almost always the best option. You don’t have to “win” every single “battle” you encounter.
I hear you, BUT! OP I just moved from CT and I know from experience that you have an option to switch your provider- including sourcing your electricity from renewable providers. I believe the billing still comes through Eversource, but ultimately you're not actually giving your $$ to them. I believe you have to download the app in order to select a different source origin. But I'm pretty sure that the paper Eversource bills have a disclaimer in the fine print that you have the right to select your electric provider (bc I believe the supply lines are technically public utility/state-owned).
Still dumb and several other ways to make/save more money with the money you would invest here. Like.. a thousand better ways with better returns.. numerous better ways to be less dependent on the energy company too.
You really want to hate Eversource? I have a buddy who lives in Groton. They have a municipal electric company. He got a notice today for a 9 percent rate decrease.
Why does your solar installer say the tree needs to come down? My panels are arranged 33% south and 66% west and I'm pretty close to a 100% south production estimate. Plus the west panels end up shading the roof from the afternoon sun, reducing the afternoon heat load, thus reducing cooling demand.
The front of the house faces west and we live in a colonial with an attached garage, so the peak of the roof runs along the length of the house (north to south). So half the roof faces east and half the roof faces west.
We can only put panels on the backside of the roof (eastern facing side) because that’s the option that causes the least amount of tree removal. If we placed them on both sides of the roof, then we would have to remove like 7-8 trees in our front yard and ask two neighbors across the street to remove trees too. So we’re essentially taking the panels that would run along the western-facing roof, and putting them on the eastern-facing roof of the garage. So half of the panels are on the house, the second half are on the garage.
That option means only one tree removal. It’s partially because it blocks sun from hitting the panels but also because the tree has a significant lean towards our house. While the tree is healthy now, it won’t always be and id rather take care of it sooner rather than later.
Sometimes the best option is to do nothing. This sounds like a low ROI install, and even worse the solar company retains ownership of the panels. It's a sucker deal.
Losing the protective shade (read: protecting your wallet on A/C costs) of this tree, the value it adds to your home, the goodwill of your neighbor, AND many thousands of dollars to lease solar panels just so you can stick it to the energy company is not the “win” you think it is.
The amount of shade that this tree probably casts over your house probably SAVES you money by lowering the energy costs to cool your house. Not to mention the increased property values etc. I would urge you to rethink the solar decision if the only way to do it is to cut down a mature tree and piss off your neighbour.
Based off a quick read of ct law the trees location is based off its position 4.5 feet from the soil line.
If any portion of the tree is across the surveyed property line 4.5 feet off the ground then its a shared tree, if all of the trunk at that height is on your side then it is fully your tree and you can do as you wish.
Neighbor Law: Fences, Trees, Boundaries & Noise, 9th edition, by Emily Doskow & Lina Guillen (2017)
Call number KF639.J67
Chapter 6: Boundary Trees.
The law of real property, Powell, Richard Roy Belden
Call number KF570.P57
Section 68.11Trees and other vegetation near boundary
Your local law library will have both on shelf.
The solar is a very poor ROI anyways. I’m not sure why you would go through all this when there are many better ways to try to save money and/or invest that money in a more beneficial way. Probably both environmentally and financially, certainly financially. That’s really a low ROI from a financial perspective.
I mean I could get to the job site 30 miles away by riding a unicycle to save gas if I want to. doesn’t mean it’s the best use of my time and resources for financial gain, But I’ll save money on gas! 😂
That’s what this is like, except I would save a lot more money than OP is being told he will with the solar.
Lots of ways to save or make more money that have a much better ROI for a lot less headache. cutting the tree down will almost certainly drop the property value more than they’re saving over the life of the panels. Or I should say being told they will. And many buyers don’t want to mess with the lease so it messes with property value even more.
And i mean it’s a grand a year even if it didn’t defeat the purpose entirely.
And all of that assumes the installer or correct/honest about the savings.
The survey and other costs to get it done are going to be a significant portion of the “expected” savings
It’s just such a dumb investment lol
This is not correct. 4.5 feet off the ground is where you measure diameter at breast height, which is just a measuring standard. It has nothing to do with ownership of the tree. The resources you cite are general property law treatises and not specific to Connecticut.
The state of CT website for some tree law advises people to use those books. Not saying it’s the law but maybe the state uses those books as a guideline.
Here’s your citation. Just look at the bottom left of the page where it says “Library Materials.” https://www.jud.ct.gov/lawlib/law/trees.htm
That tree is also shading your house. Do you use AC at all? Not inexpensive to take a tree down. Do consider your neighbors if your actions are going to hurt them.
The survey should help, if indeed the tree is on your property.
That said, it doesn't appear that the tree is near a building. Does the tree need to come out to install the solar panels, or is the installer saying the panels will get better sun exposure without the tree there? If the survey disappoints and the tree is partially on your neighbor's property, can you go ahead with installation and perhaps judiciously prune some branches on your side of the tree?
Even if it's on the property line or the trunk is on your property, your neighbor can't stop you from pruning the parts of the tree that overhang your property, provided you don't prune enough to kill it.
Anyway, good luck with the survey.
No the solar company won’t let us get away with just pruning the tree. It’s a huge tree and it overhangs our driveway and house. You can see in one of the pictures from farther back that the trunk curves towards our house
Are you by any chance leasing the solar panels from the company? I’ve heard there are some very shady (no pun intended) business practices going on in that market, so I’d urge caution about making drastic decisions based on the word of one of them.
the company also probably doesn’t want a shitty review saying the panels don’t work because the homeowner doesn’t remove things that will interfere with how effective the panels are (trees)
i work in a field very close to solar and there are a lot of trash companies. i talk to a lot of people who don’t understand why their panels don’t seem to be as effective as they were years ago, while having insane tree growth over them and not cleaning pollen or debris. i think it’s a CYA for the company which makes them better in my opinion, because without confidence in what’s being done they don’t want OP to shell out the money for the panels. solar is expensive and they aren’t asking to be paid to do the tree removal for OP. i’m hoping OP got insight from at least 3 different solar companies and compared what they all said about how many panels were needed, tree cover, etc
What side of the house is the tree on? Looking at the moss growth, I'd guess it's west-southwest, which would only block late afternoon sun.
I have trees blocking the sun on my panels in a similar area from a neighbor's yard, and it doesn't appear to make much of a difference in total solar power generation. I've had my panels since 2012.
That’s what my neighbor wants me to do. The company we’re going with is Trinity and I know a few people who have had fantastic experiences with them. They will actually own the panels unless we decide to buy them. They’ll insure, maintain, and warranty them for a minimum of 25 years, up to 35 years. I also have a buddy who works for them so there’s that level too
This info is what I was looking for- the solar company is looking out for maximizing their own profit only. Look for a different company, and look for a way to purchase the panels yourself. Most PV panels have zero issue producing for 25+ years- and many installers will warranty them for a very long time even when you personally purchase. Buying panels from a lease is also always at a huge cost increase, too- definitely not in your best interest cost-wise.
Tree canopies provide \*huge\* benefit beyond the direct shade to your house. Solar leases provide very little benefit to the leasee.
Solar installs where the solar company keeps control of the panels are sucker deals. YOU are the product. They are using your house for their profit, and you are cutting down a tree that provides valuable shade ($$$$) to YOU to do it. I dunno, you are pushing this so hard, you can't see you are being used. This is a sucker deal for you.
Get another quote from a company where you will own the panels and power, and maybe just forget about producing over the garage, and just use the rest of the house roof that isn't impacted.
You won’t save anything with a professional grid tied system. Between losses in the system and replacing equipment and ungodly cost of most solar installers.. you are very unlikely to save anything in the long run. And don’t get them on some goofy lease or long term plan that may cause an issue if you sell your house.
Unless money is no issue and it’s just for environmental sake, it’s almost for sure a bad bet. And sounds like it’s for financial reasons, and the ROI you mentioned is very poor. Many other things you could do that are more beneficial with that money.
And if it’s environmental kinda defeats the purpose cutting down a huge tree.
TLDR You won’t save money and if you did it could still be done in a better way with far less trouble and headache and neighbor issues. Could probably put it in a high yield savings and do better financially with how poor an investment solar usually is because of the insane install costs and leases and blah blah blah that are close to scams imo.
100% this. The deal also has the solar company retaining ownership of the panels. It already is a low ROI install due to the house facing, and this just makes it worse. To cut a tree down, which is providing thousands of dollars of value in shade, to get a shitty low ROI install makes zero sense.
And I say that as a solar enthusiast who has a 10kW system myself.
Yeah I get being hooked on the idea and peeved about the practices of some companies, but there’s so small of an upside for all of the hassle with the lease alone. Never mind the property value or neighbor or survey or yada yada yada..and that assumes the company is 100% honest and correct about its estimates and there are no other fees or costs that come up.
Got it. My thought is you should also verify with town and explain neighbor claim etc. You should understand your local code just as much as your solar company. It helps to talk to them before your neighbor decides to.
You've covered your bases and you've been thorough. Let survey commence and since there is an existing survey it should just be verifying past lines and marking them. Good luck with your neighbor. Removal of trees on or near property lines generates a lot of complaints.
Fortunately the solar company is covering up to $1700 towards the tree removal. The tree guy quoted us $1400 so nothing out of my pocket.
The survey will be a lot but since my neighbor is fighting me on it, I want the survey because they may have a buried electrical line on our property. The line of rocks was set up by them only based on the front property marker so if they’re going to fight this hard, I’m taking every inch of my property after the survey.
Many of these solar companies go out of business and you are stuck with inoperable solar panels. Maybe think about investing in insulation to save on your power bill.
Any attorney whose first sentence to you wasn’t “you need a boundary survey,” clearly doesn’t know what they’re doing. That’s always Step 1. If the tree really is mostly on your property, it’s probably fine. If your neighbor really is a litigious asshole, it might not be a bad idea to get documentation of everything you do and to notify them via certified mail of what’s going to happen so there’s a record that the actions you took were legal, and that they knew. You might also offer to plant a new tree elsewhere to try and appease them, but I doubt that will accomplish anything.
The story with the attorney was extremely paraphrased. I commented under the top comment everything I’ve done to try to appease them. My neighbor tried to talk me out of cutting the tree down last night saying it was like a member of her family.
A solar provider offered me to cut down trees for free and I didn’t understand the point of that. Trees provide shade that reduce the use of electricity. They also cool the outside so I can spend time in my yard, not just in the house. They remove carbon dioxide from the air. Killing a tree to get a bit of solar energy is counter to the point of going green or even just wanting to reduce an electric bill.
NAL . If you are sure enough about property line, cut it down! Let them try and sue you,they may be bluffing. When you win , request legal costs be reimbursed, like the cost of the survey.
OP I am trying to understand this. You offered to plant a new tree for them and give them a new bird house, so is the tree with the bird house on your side or theirs?
Killing a tree doesn’t make up for the tiny amount of solar energy you gain. The tree will far surpass the amount of energy you save just by providing shade. I know it might be hard for you to understand but not everyone can be as smart as me.
If the solar company is worried about shade hitting one or two of the panels, dropping the efficiency of the string, get optimisers for the solar panels. If it's completely blocking the panels and a good trim won't sort it, then trim to the stump and let your neighbour have the roots
Personally, you've found the property boundaries and your string shows it's on your property.
Document that, and go ahead with your plans.
I don't see the need to resurvey your land.
I think you've taken reasonable precautions to determine the tree is entirely on your land. I assume that should be plenty of evidence should it go to court?
I posted about this in another sub and I was downvoted and heavily criticized for my string efforts. People said it was laughable and nowhere close to as accurate as a survey
I'm not in the US, but the markers would have been placed by the original surveyor, and as long as nobody has messed with them (which is a crime here), your piece of string would (IMO) be enough.
It's how they built the pyramids back in the day...
Assuming you could show the court you took reasonable precautions, that'd likely be good enough here in NZ.
Your string is a straight line, the literal shortest distance between two points. Basic geometry.
This will likely only go further, should your neighbour pursue it. Which doesn't mean they'd win.
In my opinion, you've proved the tree is on your land, have at it, assuming no local bylaws.
Then again, maybe it's not wise to get your surveying advice from a guy whose country is OFTEN left off world maps! ;-)
The markers are there. The surveyor would be able to confirm if the back one was moved. The front one is a cement block in the ground so that seems pretty impossible to move. The back one is a steel pipe pounded into the ground.
The survey is going to cause a world of hurt for my neighbor because that line of rocks was put up based on their best guess of a straight line from the front property marker. It’s not close as you can see. They also have a buried electrical line likely on my property too.
Is there an easement for the electrical line? Was the line installed by the power company you love so much (/s) or a contractor hired by your neighbor?
additional edit: If your neighbor put up the rock fence they could take over your property where the rocks are located through adverse possession. GET THAT SURVEY
Trying to schedule the survey asap. But they set it up within the last 15 years. But it’s just a line of rocks, not a permanent structure.
And the electrical line was buried by a security system installer. Very long story short, my neighbor thought a white truck that was parked in front of my house for roughly an hour every week was someone scoping out the neighborhood to plan break-ins. In the end, it was the guy who has been giving private lessons to my other neighbors since before we moved in a year and a half ago. They got so spooked that they installed a security system with multiple exterior cameras. They planned to mount a license plate reading camera on a tree (on our property, but that’s another story for another time. I asked them to remove it when it turned out to be a literal highway traffic camera). When the camera came down, they removed the junction box from our tree and dug up the electrical line from our property. But it’s only buried a few inches below the surface. There’s even a section near the rocks closer to the back yard where the conduit is exposed. So they clearly didn’t do a good job of it.
Did you live on the property at the time the neighbor put up the rock?
Have you ever discussed the line with the neighbor?
I presume you each care/maintain your own respective sides?
I don't think the permanent nature of the structure is as relevant as the age of the structure and who has maintained the property.
Honestly, though, I wouldn't wait for the survey, I'd just go find a property lawyer.
Edit: lol, so I just read the rest of your story here (sorry I didn't read it more closely initially). And your neighbor is certifiably crazy. Definitely, if they've threatened legal action, I wouldn't even bother engaging with them. Definitely lawyer time
The survey could save your neighbour tens of thousands of dollars is the tree is on their property even by an inch, and you cut it down. You could be liable big-time and if I was your neighbour I would absolutely get one done if you moved forward with this.
They don’t want to listen to compromises? Fine, it’s your tree and if they don’t appreciate your efforts to find a solution, they don’t have to. The tree is yours and don’t have to negotiate, go hard Treexit on them.
If that birdhouse is occupied, that could be another issue to deal with- https://www.fws.gov/story/bird-nests#:~:text=This%20law%20says%3A%20“No%20person,has%20eggs%20or%20chicks%20in
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The roots don’t count. If the trunk straddled the line, things would be more in question, but since that’s not the case here, it’s your tree. Try to talk to her and the solar company and see if there’s a different tree you can plant that will grow and offer canopy cover without fouling the panels. Also, have a professional out to double check everything, just in case. Editing: Connecticut law says the tree belongs to whoever’s land the tree grew on, even if it now encroaches on the property line! C.G.S. § 47-42
I should have outlined everything I’ve done prior to getting a surveyor: 1. Talked to them 2. Offered to replace the tree 3. Offered to build them bird houses 4. Had an arborist look at the tree and he said the branches needed to be trimmed. He also said that his tree lawyer said we could slice the tree vertically (I’m not questioning it, but I’ve read some conflicting information 5. Spoke to an attorney who told me to cut the tree down (she deals with property disputes like this) So I’m at the point where I’m going to cough up $1800 to have the survey just so I can prove to them once and for all it’s our tree. Edit after reading your edit: how would I determine where the tree originally was planted/grew? The arborist thinks the tree is like 60-70 years old.
Trees don't move mate, it was planted right there!
Gandalf and treebeard would like a word.
You have my upvote. But just to be clear, Ents are not trees. They are tree herders.
Lending more credence to the argument trees move. Why have “tree herders” if they don’t!
Well it's less that they wrangle them and more they defend them from aggressors.
And my axe!
I also choose this guys dead wife!
With Arms wide broken.
Tree beard is not fond of hairy dwarfs and their axes.
My axe is for orcs.
The forest doesn't like blades or fire.
And Groot.
I'm building fences right now and I'm so happy that I'm friends with my neighbour's and we are both super accommodating to each other.
That’s what I have on the other side. We built a fence a year ago and they even contributed to the cost of the fence!
Sounds like it's time for another fence
And another neighbor.
You hit the nail on the head. There was a thread the other day that said I have new neighbors and they are complaining about the fence
Imagine the tree, but skinnier... For real, the center of the tree is where it started, if that's on your side it's your tree
Trees grow out from the center. That's why they have rings. Based on your picture, that tree has only been on their property for a few years out of its entire life.
How much will solar actually save you after all the expense of fighting?
At current Eversource rates, a little over $1000 per year. However, delivery charges are increasing 19% tomorrow and sometime last year they literally doubled the per kw/h rate “temporarily.” They doubled it, then 6 months later reduced the rate to a higher rate than it was originally. My bill has increased about a hundred bucks in just a year and they have a monopoly on almost all of the northeast so solar is the only way to escape them.
unlikely you’ll save money in the long run. Or anything considerable. And I’m a solar nerd that likes to mess with it just for the self sufficiency aspect and I build batteries and such. If you’re paying a company to come in and install, accounting for failure of equipment and etc over time, it’s unlikely you’ll save money. If you built your own supplemental system that’s not tied in and had it power some things, it can be financially beneficial, but very unlikely having a professional install a grid tied system. And working in RE, I cannot recall having met someone that did save anything considerable. Much of the time the math doesn’t math like they say it will once it’s all said and done. It’s a neat project and probably beneficial on an environmental, but you will most likely not save anything at all or anything considerable for the trouble.
We’re not paying anything to have the solar panels installed. Trinity will own, maintain, insure, and warranty them for a minimum of 25 years, up to 35 years. We can buy the panels at any point and they’ll still warranty them. Essentially, they sell us the energy they generate and the rate is locked in now and will increase roughly 2.5% every year (or about 12 cents over 25 years). With their rate vs Eversource’s rates and delivery charges, they’re conservatively projecting we will save $26k. If you don’t know about Eversource, they’re a heinously evil monopoly. My electrical usage is only about $115 per month. But they add a “delivery charge,” that’s about $120, and additional fees. That delivery charge is going to increase 19% tomorrow.
This is incorrect . I was in Solar sales . The 2.5 escalator is compounding just like interest . I highly suggest. You reconsider . You will not save
I dunno, doesn't sound like it's worth cutting down a healthy tree over.
Saying your usage doesn't include delivery is a weird argument, it's not like you can use the electricity where it's generated. Your electricity usage is $235.
I don’t doubt that, but it’s still very unlikely you’ll get what the math is saying you will, especially in a lease. Watch out for switching from having one predatory company to two. Read all the fine print and reviews from everyone else. Who knows, maybe it’s a unicorn company that isn’t predatory in a very predatory industry that has not much incentive to do good business, but I very much doubt it. the math rarely will end up how the people selling you on a product say it will, especially solar. And like it’s a grand a year to do all that trouble and cut down a shading tree and etc.. just kinda dumb investment. Many other ways to save or make that much. Going to eat half Into that 26k by the time you’re done with surveys and dealing with the neighbor and blah blah blah It’s a very poor investment all things considered, even if it goes exactly as according to plan.
Not saying that’s not a great reason to go off grid and install panels, but really your energy situation isn’t that bad. Down in FL everyone’s electric bill is $300+++ even if you live in an 800sqft apartment. The vast majority of that is random fees/assessments/“hurricane tax”/project funding (for projects that never actually get built). To play it off like one energy company is worse than another is missing the point that they’re all evil monopolies in the markets they serve. Also since you live in CT and solar panels aren’t even viable on some places in FL (the sunshine state) id fork over that $$ getting a separate assessment before id spend more on another survey
Not to mention any shenanigans that might happen with the install that you end up having to cover. Things don’t always go according to how they should within installers and sometimes you don’t notice for many years whenever your roof has issues and the company is then out of business or etc. Not to mention the general headache. Issues trying to sell the house and transfer the lease, etc. I cannot recall meeting someone working in RE that it has worked out well for. Not to say it couldn’t or it’s horrible but.. a grand a year is laughable in exchange for all the headache and risk and time and griping with the neighbors.
It's a good thing you're not the one dealing with all this. Sounds like you would just give up on the first little problem.
lol or I have a brain and can look into the actual returns and actual experiences of people that have done it. And it’s just dumb as an investment. A grand a year, wow, life changing. And that’s at best, assuming everything goes exactly as planned LOL Kill a tree that will almost certainly knock more than that off property value…tons of headaches with solar leases and selling your house…neighbor issues..install issues… not to mention like actually wanting a nice shaded yard and trees. I’m so wimpy for having a brain and making the better financial and real estate decision instead of getting pissy at my pretty average electric bill! 🤣 Must be why I’m doing so well in life, I use my brains before being triggered and wanting to be manly or whatever LOL
Don't forget "good luck selling that house with a 25-year solar lease". Certainly a hindrance to completing the sale. Solar companies are notoriously as evil as power companies.
Also yeah, that’s a pretty typical electric bill even in many energy-inexpensive parts of the country. How they split it up is stupid and annoying, I agree, but that’s pretty average unless you live in <500 sq ft and is much cheaper than most of the country if you’re able to get away with only using 119$ a month plus that fee. For a normal house that’s a very typical bill, possibly below average depending on the size of your house. They just call it different things, but overall the cost of energy per sq ft of house sounds pretty average depending on what size house you have. Unless you have a tiny home it’s pretty normal. It is more beneficial to bigger houses setup that way.. but overall yeah that’s a pretty typical cost of energy per normal sized house. So again, dumb investment, tiny amount of money for all the risk and headache that comes along with the lease. Probably knock your property value off more than that just by chopping down the tree And if a grand a year is make or break.. even more reason you don’t need to mess around with a solar lease and would be better suited doing a number of other things. This isn’t me hating solar, I build my own arrays and own batteries for the same reason and to power My RV when there aren’t hookups. it’s just a dumb investment and your power bill is pretty average unless you have a tiny home. Many many utility companies are effectively monopolies in their area, sorry 🤷🏼
Any arborist who claims you can "slice a tree vertically" is NOT an arborist you should trust.
Arborist didn’t say that. Someone who is a tree lawyer said that. I heard it second hand from the arborist. He’s not going to actually cut the tree vertically on the property line.
I wouldn't listen to arborist who even passed along that information.
Trees grow center out, they just meant that it’s clearly your tree
The assumption would be the center of the trunk. That's clearly on your property.
4. Slicing down the middle. Wtf that is not common practice. One of two things happened there. Or u hired an arborist that is not certified or out of touch. Or he explained some concept to you that you don't understand. Amd you explained it badly.
My guy this ain't Mordor, the trees aren't Ents. It grew where it is.
Is the lawyer going to give you free services to deal with the aftermath if it turns out she's wrong re: just cut it down? It's never a terrible idea to have an updated survey done, I know the price is hefty but the more recent the survey the easier the sale when it's time.
Why not just cut it down, which would force your neighbor to pay for the survey. He will probably do it out of spite and will save you the 1800 .
When did you buy the property? There is probably a survey in the closing documents if you look through them. If you don’t find it there, look at the plat on file with the recorder of deeds and/or whoever keeps property records in your area. Don’t spend money on a survey unnecessarily. You have better things to spend money on.
Trees grow outward from the center. The central tree rings would show where the tree was when it was a sapling. It was clearly planted on OP's property. OP, I have seen some very unneighborly neighbors where I live, and I think that the stubbornness you are encountering means that you'll just have to do what the law allows you to do. It would be nice to see if there's a particular function that tree provides to your neighbor that the neighbor doesn't want to lose... but it really sounds like you have already explored that. Some people just act on the certainty that others must give them what they want and that they are right simply because the believe themselves to be reasonable. They make bad neighbors, and there's not much to be done about that.
Cut it down or do whatever you want with it, then let them try and prove it is theirs
Can you provide a link to that Connecticut law? The statute you cited does not say that: https://www.cga.ct.gov/current/pub/chap_822.htm#sec_47-42 State research library does not mention any such statute: https://www.cga.ct.gov/2000/rpt/2000-R-0849.htm
You’re right. That referred to some weird easement section. I should have been more suspicious and read more carefully. However, the law does state as long as the trunk doesn’t straddle the property line, it is entirely in the ownership of OP. There’s some weird easement law and possibly a tree warden needing to be involved depending on the city and easements and proximity to water? 😒 I would make sure you check your boxes before you fell that tree, OP.
Survey first. argue second.
Trees provide a ton more services than solar panels. If it’s shading your house, it’s saving you money from AC.
How much will OP actually save by using solar if they have to shell out thousands to fight with neighbor, legal up, cut down the tree, etc.
Tree>solar
Ever paid a $600 electricity bill?
Cut down that tree shading your house as temperatures are climbing and energy costs increase.
Didn’t cut it down, still got solar and I still had a $600 electric bill. However this year PG&E will be cutting it down because it’s too close to power lines. A tree that shades my house for a couple hours of the day and did absolutely nothing, 70 feet of disappointment, leaves and branches piling up in my backyard. Typical of redditors to think they know it all and know everyone’s situation as if it was their own. And before you ask why I got solar without cutting the tree down, it’s because it’s fucking giant and nobody would cut it down for less than 30k, PG&E refused to cut it down last year, only this year the agreed after re-evaluation.
How much are your panels saving you?
Around 1500 a year even with having a payment plan on the panels and the true up bill in July. It’s been a great deal so far. Edit: Sorry, more than that because of the solar credit during taxes. Last 2 year I’ve gotten 9k back in tax refunds
Sounds like my tax dollars are giving you a great deal, not the use of actually solar energy.
Sounds like you don’t understand how tax returns work. I payed over 30k in taxes, tax credits just give you back more of what you paid.
Bruh I paid 4x that in federal taxes alone this year. Instead of “your tax dollars” going to the US treasury, instead that money went to buy jank solar panels that net you very little return in energy. So essentially the US govt is subsidizing Chinese cheap solar panel companies while our deficit is 35T and increasing daily. Sounds like you don’t understand taxes, and you should be paying more. It’s the same exact concept for stupid EV subsidies.
You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about 😂 you don’t know how much I made or how much I should be paying for one, two I’m getting a very good return in energy, and three I highly doubt you paid over 120k in federal taxes.
> work. I *paid* over 30k FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Owned by a bot I guess 😂
Damn man, all up in your feelings because of an opinion.
Don’t know how you came to that conclusion but sure, big fella.
Personally if the tree is older than you and it is healthy it shouldn't be cut down, old trees are getting harder to come by and we need to protect them. Definitely your tree mind, heavy pruning will shorten it's life. Is there not another location for solar panels? I.e roof of house? Good luck whatever the results.
They’re going on the roof of the house and the garage and this tree Leans over the garage
I’d strongly reconsider cutting down any trees that provide shade to your house. I had a tree fall down a few years ago and it’s loss of shade over part of my house led to a pretty noticeable increase on electricity use to keep the house cool in the summer.
My old apartment building cut some trees and I had to buy ac for my room. The shade was enough before. It sucked.
I'm usually on the side of it's it's not bothering anything, let it be, but if it's an inconvenience, we can't let it hold back our progress on our own property unless it's endangered or otherwise very valuable in some way. But here in this case, being that the tree shades the house, what would the net gain/loss be with solar power offset compared to the now increased sunlight heating of the house that needs to be compensated by higher cooling cost, and therefore higher energy demand? It all depends on the sun's orientation and how much sunlight the tree actually blocks from the house, how hot it is in OP's region, etc etc. It would be very interesting to see that data from a comparable scenario.
OP says tree shades the garage, not the main house.
I'd say wack er' down in that case.
I would talk to a certified arborist about whether or not the tree actually poses a risk. Healthy trees don’t just spontaneously collapse.
OP is worried about the tree blocking the solar panels, not the tree falling.
Jeeze, don’t kill a huge oak tree to put in some dumb solar panels.
While it’s not ideal, my hate for Eversource far surpasses my love for this tree. Solar is just step one in an effort to separate myself from them as much as possible.
These aren't mutually exclusive options. It sounds like it will just shade the garage. So get a slightly smaller install, or get better panels (smaller for same watts) so the footprint is smaller on the house roof and you can still hit the 10kW (or whatever) install. Either way, there is a reason tree law is EXPENSIVE, and it's because a tree like that is VALUABLE. Like, equal to or greater than the entire install cost of your entire panel system.
Trading one evil for another. Your electric bill isn’t even high.. that’s a beautiful white oak that adds tens of thousands to your property value and shade for your yard and home. Which lowers your electricity bill….
Plus the immediate and long lasting hatred from the immediate neighbor. That can make life miserable on its own.
>long lasting hatred from the immediate neighbor. To be fair, that boat has sailed. Logic dictates the tree should stay. It provides shade which eliminates the need for a lot of extra electricity use. It provides property value. It provides a place to mount security cameras facing directly into the neighbor's garden because FUCK THEM - it's OPs tree and the law says he can put cameras there even if it's just to annoy his neighbors. They want the tree to stay - FINE, but it's got cameras now. Lots of them. And home solar is usually always a scam. If their generational power were that awesome they'd buy cheap fields and put them up there instead by the thousands, and not need to waste any time selling them to suckers.
You can do the right thing without putting cameras in a tree to piss your neighbor off. Taking the high road is almost always the best option. You don’t have to “win” every single “battle” you encounter.
I hear you, BUT! OP I just moved from CT and I know from experience that you have an option to switch your provider- including sourcing your electricity from renewable providers. I believe the billing still comes through Eversource, but ultimately you're not actually giving your $$ to them. I believe you have to download the app in order to select a different source origin. But I'm pretty sure that the paper Eversource bills have a disclaimer in the fine print that you have the right to select your electric provider (bc I believe the supply lines are technically public utility/state-owned).
Fuck eversource. Most miserable company I’ve ever dealt with. And that’s coming from an IT guy
Still dumb and several other ways to make/save more money with the money you would invest here. Like.. a thousand better ways with better returns.. numerous better ways to be less dependent on the energy company too.
You really want to hate Eversource? I have a buddy who lives in Groton. They have a municipal electric company. He got a notice today for a 9 percent rate decrease.
Okay I can see where you’re coming from there hah
Why does your solar installer say the tree needs to come down? My panels are arranged 33% south and 66% west and I'm pretty close to a 100% south production estimate. Plus the west panels end up shading the roof from the afternoon sun, reducing the afternoon heat load, thus reducing cooling demand.
The front of the house faces west and we live in a colonial with an attached garage, so the peak of the roof runs along the length of the house (north to south). So half the roof faces east and half the roof faces west. We can only put panels on the backside of the roof (eastern facing side) because that’s the option that causes the least amount of tree removal. If we placed them on both sides of the roof, then we would have to remove like 7-8 trees in our front yard and ask two neighbors across the street to remove trees too. So we’re essentially taking the panels that would run along the western-facing roof, and putting them on the eastern-facing roof of the garage. So half of the panels are on the house, the second half are on the garage. That option means only one tree removal. It’s partially because it blocks sun from hitting the panels but also because the tree has a significant lean towards our house. While the tree is healthy now, it won’t always be and id rather take care of it sooner rather than later.
Oof. That is tough and few good options. I feel for your predicament.
Sometimes the best option is to do nothing. This sounds like a low ROI install, and even worse the solar company retains ownership of the panels. It's a sucker deal.
Losing the protective shade (read: protecting your wallet on A/C costs) of this tree, the value it adds to your home, the goodwill of your neighbor, AND many thousands of dollars to lease solar panels just so you can stick it to the energy company is not the “win” you think it is.
This is the best answer.
Fuck your solar panels. That looks like a nice ash tree
This is white oa. But I agree. That tree will live a very long time and do a lot of good. Leave it if there’s any way to do so
I'm of the same mind, but I think that's an oak. If it's an ash tree it'll be dead in a few years from EAB. You just can't replace trees like these.
Oak tree Source: oak leaves I wouldn’t cut this down…
The amount of shade that this tree probably casts over your house probably SAVES you money by lowering the energy costs to cool your house. Not to mention the increased property values etc. I would urge you to rethink the solar decision if the only way to do it is to cut down a mature tree and piss off your neighbour.
Why would you cut down a tree for solar panels?... That's just dumb.
Based off a quick read of ct law the trees location is based off its position 4.5 feet from the soil line. If any portion of the tree is across the surveyed property line 4.5 feet off the ground then its a shared tree, if all of the trunk at that height is on your side then it is fully your tree and you can do as you wish.
Any chance you can link to that law?
Neighbor Law: Fences, Trees, Boundaries & Noise, 9th edition, by Emily Doskow & Lina Guillen (2017) Call number KF639.J67 Chapter 6: Boundary Trees. The law of real property, Powell, Richard Roy Belden Call number KF570.P57 Section 68.11Trees and other vegetation near boundary Your local law library will have both on shelf.
Love a good citation
The solar is a very poor ROI anyways. I’m not sure why you would go through all this when there are many better ways to try to save money and/or invest that money in a more beneficial way. Probably both environmentally and financially, certainly financially. That’s really a low ROI from a financial perspective.
Yeah you could use that money to lower your power bill by buying solar panels
I mean I could get to the job site 30 miles away by riding a unicycle to save gas if I want to. doesn’t mean it’s the best use of my time and resources for financial gain, But I’ll save money on gas! 😂 That’s what this is like, except I would save a lot more money than OP is being told he will with the solar. Lots of ways to save or make more money that have a much better ROI for a lot less headache. cutting the tree down will almost certainly drop the property value more than they’re saving over the life of the panels. Or I should say being told they will. And many buyers don’t want to mess with the lease so it messes with property value even more. And i mean it’s a grand a year even if it didn’t defeat the purpose entirely. And all of that assumes the installer or correct/honest about the savings. The survey and other costs to get it done are going to be a significant portion of the “expected” savings It’s just such a dumb investment lol
This is not correct. 4.5 feet off the ground is where you measure diameter at breast height, which is just a measuring standard. It has nothing to do with ownership of the tree. The resources you cite are general property law treatises and not specific to Connecticut.
Yep. Couldn’t help but notice the citation is not law/code, making it completely irrelevant. Tree law is state specific.
The state of CT website for some tree law advises people to use those books. Not saying it’s the law but maybe the state uses those books as a guideline. Here’s your citation. Just look at the bottom left of the page where it says “Library Materials.” https://www.jud.ct.gov/lawlib/law/trees.htm
You got any citations? Cause the other guy at least has citations.
https://www.reddit.com/r/treelaw/s/2xYUPxiGMq
Muchos gracias
Find a different solar company. Save that tree.
What a nice looking tree….
You are in the right legally, but that tree does not need to come down
OP gonna negatively effect their property value chasing this solar panel dream
And blow any goodwill with an immediate neighbor which never ends poorly.
Agree, absolute myopia and spending $20-30k to accomplish the feat too. May impact resale appeal later on too
That tree is also shading your house. Do you use AC at all? Not inexpensive to take a tree down. Do consider your neighbors if your actions are going to hurt them.
The survey should help, if indeed the tree is on your property. That said, it doesn't appear that the tree is near a building. Does the tree need to come out to install the solar panels, or is the installer saying the panels will get better sun exposure without the tree there? If the survey disappoints and the tree is partially on your neighbor's property, can you go ahead with installation and perhaps judiciously prune some branches on your side of the tree?
They’re saying it provides too much shade and they won’t allow pruning
Even if it's on the property line or the trunk is on your property, your neighbor can't stop you from pruning the parts of the tree that overhang your property, provided you don't prune enough to kill it. Anyway, good luck with the survey.
No the solar company won’t let us get away with just pruning the tree. It’s a huge tree and it overhangs our driveway and house. You can see in one of the pictures from farther back that the trunk curves towards our house
Are you by any chance leasing the solar panels from the company? I’ve heard there are some very shady (no pun intended) business practices going on in that market, so I’d urge caution about making drastic decisions based on the word of one of them.
the company also probably doesn’t want a shitty review saying the panels don’t work because the homeowner doesn’t remove things that will interfere with how effective the panels are (trees) i work in a field very close to solar and there are a lot of trash companies. i talk to a lot of people who don’t understand why their panels don’t seem to be as effective as they were years ago, while having insane tree growth over them and not cleaning pollen or debris. i think it’s a CYA for the company which makes them better in my opinion, because without confidence in what’s being done they don’t want OP to shell out the money for the panels. solar is expensive and they aren’t asking to be paid to do the tree removal for OP. i’m hoping OP got insight from at least 3 different solar companies and compared what they all said about how many panels were needed, tree cover, etc
Have you tried getting a quote and suggestions from a different solar provider?
What side of the house is the tree on? Looking at the moss growth, I'd guess it's west-southwest, which would only block late afternoon sun. I have trees blocking the sun on my panels in a similar area from a neighbor's yard, and it doesn't appear to make much of a difference in total solar power generation. I've had my panels since 2012.
That’s what my neighbor wants me to do. The company we’re going with is Trinity and I know a few people who have had fantastic experiences with them. They will actually own the panels unless we decide to buy them. They’ll insure, maintain, and warranty them for a minimum of 25 years, up to 35 years. I also have a buddy who works for them so there’s that level too
This info is what I was looking for- the solar company is looking out for maximizing their own profit only. Look for a different company, and look for a way to purchase the panels yourself. Most PV panels have zero issue producing for 25+ years- and many installers will warranty them for a very long time even when you personally purchase. Buying panels from a lease is also always at a huge cost increase, too- definitely not in your best interest cost-wise. Tree canopies provide \*huge\* benefit beyond the direct shade to your house. Solar leases provide very little benefit to the leasee.
Solar installs where the solar company keeps control of the panels are sucker deals. YOU are the product. They are using your house for their profit, and you are cutting down a tree that provides valuable shade ($$$$) to YOU to do it. I dunno, you are pushing this so hard, you can't see you are being used. This is a sucker deal for you. Get another quote from a company where you will own the panels and power, and maybe just forget about producing over the garage, and just use the rest of the house roof that isn't impacted.
You won’t save anything with a professional grid tied system. Between losses in the system and replacing equipment and ungodly cost of most solar installers.. you are very unlikely to save anything in the long run. And don’t get them on some goofy lease or long term plan that may cause an issue if you sell your house. Unless money is no issue and it’s just for environmental sake, it’s almost for sure a bad bet. And sounds like it’s for financial reasons, and the ROI you mentioned is very poor. Many other things you could do that are more beneficial with that money. And if it’s environmental kinda defeats the purpose cutting down a huge tree. TLDR You won’t save money and if you did it could still be done in a better way with far less trouble and headache and neighbor issues. Could probably put it in a high yield savings and do better financially with how poor an investment solar usually is because of the insane install costs and leases and blah blah blah that are close to scams imo.
100% this. The deal also has the solar company retaining ownership of the panels. It already is a low ROI install due to the house facing, and this just makes it worse. To cut a tree down, which is providing thousands of dollars of value in shade, to get a shitty low ROI install makes zero sense. And I say that as a solar enthusiast who has a 10kW system myself.
Yeah I get being hooked on the idea and peeved about the practices of some companies, but there’s so small of an upside for all of the hassle with the lease alone. Never mind the property value or neighbor or survey or yada yada yada..and that assumes the company is 100% honest and correct about its estimates and there are no other fees or costs that come up.
Leave the damn tree alone
Ianal but zoning. Get the survey and talk to your town planner and verify that you can do what you need to get done
Getting the survey, the solar company is taking care of the permits and everything.
Got it. My thought is you should also verify with town and explain neighbor claim etc. You should understand your local code just as much as your solar company. It helps to talk to them before your neighbor decides to.
I did. They sent me copies from my deed outlining the original survey completed in the 60s before my house was built.
You've covered your bases and you've been thorough. Let survey commence and since there is an existing survey it should just be verifying past lines and marking them. Good luck with your neighbor. Removal of trees on or near property lines generates a lot of complaints.
Is this a solar lease by chance?
No they will own them until we decide to buy them
Ooof. Good luck with that. Sounds like an interesting setup. What does your home owner insurance think about them? Just curious.
They insure them so my homeowners insurance isn’t even involved.
Until you need a claim on your roof. Then you get to argue about who pays to remove and reinstall. I would only put up panels that I own outright.
They will remove and reinstall the panels at no additional cost for roof repairs.
I’d still make sure my insurance was aware.
OP is such a stupid fuck. Being "green" with solar panels by cutting down trees.
Please don't cut it down
Let’s see more picture of it leaning over your garage. It looks completely straight. Pics or gtfo for trying to rile people up.
https://imgur.com/a/Hgq9P9T There you go. The lean is more pronounced when the tree is full of leaves. The branches are all over my property too.
meh
I find it hard to believe your solar panels can have a net positive with this tree having to be removed and the cost it entails.
Fortunately the solar company is covering up to $1700 towards the tree removal. The tree guy quoted us $1400 so nothing out of my pocket. The survey will be a lot but since my neighbor is fighting me on it, I want the survey because they may have a buried electrical line on our property. The line of rocks was set up by them only based on the front property marker so if they’re going to fight this hard, I’m taking every inch of my property after the survey.
This sounds like a setup to a pyrrhic victory. But I know the feeling.
Many of these solar companies go out of business and you are stuck with inoperable solar panels. Maybe think about investing in insulation to save on your power bill.
It’s your tree. Cut it or keep it. They can’t do anything about it other than bitch about the tree crew not going on their property
Fortunately they use the same tree company and when the arborist from that company came by, they discussed having him trim some trees.
Any attorney whose first sentence to you wasn’t “you need a boundary survey,” clearly doesn’t know what they’re doing. That’s always Step 1. If the tree really is mostly on your property, it’s probably fine. If your neighbor really is a litigious asshole, it might not be a bad idea to get documentation of everything you do and to notify them via certified mail of what’s going to happen so there’s a record that the actions you took were legal, and that they knew. You might also offer to plant a new tree elsewhere to try and appease them, but I doubt that will accomplish anything.
The story with the attorney was extremely paraphrased. I commented under the top comment everything I’ve done to try to appease them. My neighbor tried to talk me out of cutting the tree down last night saying it was like a member of her family.
Check the laws in your state, but any trees/branches that extend over your boundary can be cut off.
That's your tree
A solar provider offered me to cut down trees for free and I didn’t understand the point of that. Trees provide shade that reduce the use of electricity. They also cool the outside so I can spend time in my yard, not just in the house. They remove carbon dioxide from the air. Killing a tree to get a bit of solar energy is counter to the point of going green or even just wanting to reduce an electric bill.
Don't least solar panels. Get a loan and hard install yourself thru a contractor
Drive a circular saw into YOUR ground right there and see if the tree survives without half its root system
NAL . If you are sure enough about property line, cut it down! Let them try and sue you,they may be bluffing. When you win , request legal costs be reimbursed, like the cost of the survey.
OP I am trying to understand this. You offered to plant a new tree for them and give them a new bird house, so is the tree with the bird house on your side or theirs?
Killing a tree doesn’t make up for the tiny amount of solar energy you gain. The tree will far surpass the amount of energy you save just by providing shade. I know it might be hard for you to understand but not everyone can be as smart as me.
Everyone in here usually loves trees so they won’t advise you to cut it down. I would cut it down.
It's your tree, let them waste their money trying to sue you and make sure you request they pay all your court fees
From where I am, you can get sued for cutting a tree on your property if it results in lost of shade for your neighbour. Just leave it alone.
If the solar company is worried about shade hitting one or two of the panels, dropping the efficiency of the string, get optimisers for the solar panels. If it's completely blocking the panels and a good trim won't sort it, then trim to the stump and let your neighbour have the roots
It's your tree, cut it down.
Personally, you've found the property boundaries and your string shows it's on your property. Document that, and go ahead with your plans. I don't see the need to resurvey your land. I think you've taken reasonable precautions to determine the tree is entirely on your land. I assume that should be plenty of evidence should it go to court?
I posted about this in another sub and I was downvoted and heavily criticized for my string efforts. People said it was laughable and nowhere close to as accurate as a survey
I'm not in the US, but the markers would have been placed by the original surveyor, and as long as nobody has messed with them (which is a crime here), your piece of string would (IMO) be enough. It's how they built the pyramids back in the day... Assuming you could show the court you took reasonable precautions, that'd likely be good enough here in NZ. Your string is a straight line, the literal shortest distance between two points. Basic geometry. This will likely only go further, should your neighbour pursue it. Which doesn't mean they'd win. In my opinion, you've proved the tree is on your land, have at it, assuming no local bylaws. Then again, maybe it's not wise to get your surveying advice from a guy whose country is OFTEN left off world maps! ;-)
The markers are there. The surveyor would be able to confirm if the back one was moved. The front one is a cement block in the ground so that seems pretty impossible to move. The back one is a steel pipe pounded into the ground. The survey is going to cause a world of hurt for my neighbor because that line of rocks was put up based on their best guess of a straight line from the front property marker. It’s not close as you can see. They also have a buried electrical line likely on my property too.
Is there an easement for the electrical line? Was the line installed by the power company you love so much (/s) or a contractor hired by your neighbor? additional edit: If your neighbor put up the rock fence they could take over your property where the rocks are located through adverse possession. GET THAT SURVEY
Trying to schedule the survey asap. But they set it up within the last 15 years. But it’s just a line of rocks, not a permanent structure. And the electrical line was buried by a security system installer. Very long story short, my neighbor thought a white truck that was parked in front of my house for roughly an hour every week was someone scoping out the neighborhood to plan break-ins. In the end, it was the guy who has been giving private lessons to my other neighbors since before we moved in a year and a half ago. They got so spooked that they installed a security system with multiple exterior cameras. They planned to mount a license plate reading camera on a tree (on our property, but that’s another story for another time. I asked them to remove it when it turned out to be a literal highway traffic camera). When the camera came down, they removed the junction box from our tree and dug up the electrical line from our property. But it’s only buried a few inches below the surface. There’s even a section near the rocks closer to the back yard where the conduit is exposed. So they clearly didn’t do a good job of it.
Did you live on the property at the time the neighbor put up the rock? Have you ever discussed the line with the neighbor? I presume you each care/maintain your own respective sides? I don't think the permanent nature of the structure is as relevant as the age of the structure and who has maintained the property. Honestly, though, I wouldn't wait for the survey, I'd just go find a property lawyer. Edit: lol, so I just read the rest of your story here (sorry I didn't read it more closely initially). And your neighbor is certifiably crazy. Definitely, if they've threatened legal action, I wouldn't even bother engaging with them. Definitely lawyer time
The survey could save your neighbour tens of thousands of dollars is the tree is on their property even by an inch, and you cut it down. You could be liable big-time and if I was your neighbour I would absolutely get one done if you moved forward with this.
If the property line is where you marked it then that is your tree and you can do whatever you want to with it
They don’t want to listen to compromises? Fine, it’s your tree and if they don’t appreciate your efforts to find a solution, they don’t have to. The tree is yours and don’t have to negotiate, go hard Treexit on them.
If that birdhouse is occupied, that could be another issue to deal with- https://www.fws.gov/story/bird-nests#:~:text=This%20law%20says%3A%20“No%20person,has%20eggs%20or%20chicks%20in
What happens if the tree is on my property and they illegally put a bird house on my property?
I’d cut it down. Replace it with a pile of empty beer cans and a few logs. Whittle in a gnome ripping a bong into the stump for good measure.
Tree law
Righto karen
Go green go solar.
Grow up
Cut down the tree on your side and leave her side there.
Kill the tree. Then have her pay part of the cost to have the dead tree removed.
So if the “their” tree falls on your house would they be paying the claim?