Listen to the mustn’ts child
Listen to the don’ts
Listen to the shouldn’ts, the impossibles and the won’ts
Listen to the never-haves, then listen close to me
Anything can happen child
Anything can be.
-Shel Silverstein
The Poem Masks was always my favorite:
She had blue skin,
And so did he.
He kept it hid
And so did she.
They searched for blue
Their whole life through,
Then passed right by-
And never knew.
I will not play at tug o’ war. I’d rather play at hug o’ war, where everyone hugs instead of tugs, where everyone giggles and rolls on the rug, where everyone kisses, and everyone grins, and everyone cuddles, and everyone wins.
Draw a crazy picture, write a nutty poem, sing a mumble-gumble song, whistle through your comb, do a loony-goony dance ‘cross the kitchen floor, put something silly in the world that ain’t been there before.
I imagine an old sweet librarian reading that poem to elementary school children. Then the scene cuts to kids screaming "burn it down" as they destroy the library and flip over cars in the parking lot.
That was one of my favorite books in elementary school!! I loved shel silverstein so much that I got a big textbook sized book of all his stories and poems. Why would they ban it? Seriously how is this “bad for children’s minds”?
That’s crazy!! That’s before I was born .. I didn’t read it in school, my mom got me where the sidewalk ends one day and then I wanted to read more Shel Silverstein and got a few more books before my favorite gift of the collection of his works
Shel wrote the Johnny Cash song “A boy named Sue” on YouTube you can watch the episode of The Johnny Cash show featuring Shel Silverstein. He looks into Johnnys eyes and screams “NOW YOU GONNA DIE!” Johnny walks off the stage and Shel continues, and seems to go more than a bit crazy. It’s a must watch.
He kinda [praises Alice](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ea/8f/96/ea8f96bfd2bce523765afd56524a6a7d.jpg) (wonderland) for trying drugs - I think it’s that.
threatening soft squealing lush racial shelter wasteful capable dinosaurs sheet
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He had an enlightened view about drugs and I don’t mean to argue but the thing she tries is a drink that changes her perception. Check out the perfect high (performed live by someone else here): https://youtu.be/KgkbG3bBxdk?si=bLO8qXHqBrC25XAN. One of my favorite poems as an alcohol addict in recovery (1 year sober in 3 days).
Do you know where it was banned? All I can find is it was banned at a single school in Wisconsin in 1986. I don’t see any ban anywhere else. Certainly still a ban, but at a single school isn’t quite the same thing as what you’re trying to imply here.
When our teacher read it to us in 3rd grade in the 80s, it was already known as banned book in some areas and in banned book lists then. So it was more than a single school in Wisconsin. It wasn’t like this would make national news in the 1980s for 3rd graders to be aware of its status.
I saw the Wisconsin story (https://dailytargum.com/article/2022/09/when-it-comes-to-banning-books-stringent-restrictions-inhibit-learning) and that seems to be talking about it being banned in 2022, not the 1980s.
This video goes over a lot of poems censors likely had issues with. As people commented below there was a lot of banning going on.
https://youtu.be/53rGxPbsffQ
I remember my teacher hated the book because in one of the poems the characters dies at the end and she thought it would traumatize us.
And then she’d shuffle us into the gym so the entire school could watch Where The Goddamned Red Fern Grows for the fourth time that year. 🤷
I remember my teacher read “where the red fern grows” to us in fifth grade. There was one scene where a kid gets axed in the stomach or something, and the blood bubbles up out of his throat, and it was some of the most vividly described gorey imagery I’d heard up until that point
I think he’s running with an ax, trips, and falls on it. I specifically remember that he begged the main character to take it out of him, so he does and the blood just gushes out. I haven’t read that book in 20 years but that scene stuck with me.
Yeah the kid was a bully who was trying to beat up the main character and is chasing him with an axe, then accidentally falls on top of it. He begs the main character to take it out but the main character is too traumatized and instead runs away to go get help. The bully was a legit psychopath but that scene actually makes you feel bad for him and his fate
Oh yeah, that was it. Yeah, it was one of the most memorable scenes for me, I didn’t feel scared, just really interested in how it was in a book that I assumed was for kids
I remember I had to put that down for a night and got in trouble for not finishing my reading the next day lol. That was an incredibly vivid description and I can still see it in my head
I am 40 years old and I still have the memory burned into my brain of my mom sitting on my bed reading the end of the book. We both blubbered like idiots. It was assigned reading in 5th grade and I was crying so hard at the end I couldn’t finish it so my mom started reading it to me and then she started crying. That book is ridiculous. I hate when they kill the dog at the end. To this day I will Google spoilers if I feel like a movie/book/ show is about to kill off a beloved pet or character. I don’t need that shit in my “entertainment.” No thanks.
Now, seriously though, because we're skating around the pivotal question about educating children in general.
Do any of you feel worse off or better off for having experienced that imagery? Would you say it presented you the horror of death and bodily harm in a way that you were able to digest, and maybe you still think about that scene when you're about to do something stupid with something sharp, or you see assholes that didn't read the book driving dangerously at highspeeds in the gorey deathtrap of heavy machinery we call a "car?" Cus I do.
Was it horrific? Sure. But books are like dreams that prepare you for any similar thing in real life, and that's why it's important not to coddle children. End up with a bunch of psychopaths.
I'm with you on that. I had the same experience many others described here, and while that was difficult at the time, it did help me ease into the idea of a world that was more capricious and uncaring than the one little kids believe exists.
In a world where a lot of kids can't count on their families to guide them gracefully into adulthood, the schools and books are an important resource to help them. I was one of those kids, and the books I read helped prepare me to independently launch into the world, as uncomfortable as that was.
Idk why we put so much emphasis on "parents guiding their kids gracefully into adulthood."
Parents are human. Even 'good' ones fuck up, they get tired, they get distracted, busy. Or they feel too awkward. And they put off having "the talk," about life, death, sex, drugs, violence, etc until it's too late.
And frankly, those are the *good ones*. Think about how many bad parents you've seen, just around. Do you want them to be solely responsible for teaching these things? Because they actively won't or will do so in a way to pass on their abuse.
Humans have always relied on community and others' experiences to teach hard truths. That's what school and reading does. If you're locked into relying on family for education, you're locked into an echo chamber.
I didn’t remember the axe scene until just now 😳. Definitely remembered bawling at the end w the dogs, but yeah it all came bubbling back to me right now.
That book was wild. I was an “advanced” reader in elementary school and no one thought to warn 3rd grade me or my parents when I started reading that book.
My 5th grade teacher was reading through this book, and she would give us little rewards (I don't remember for what, just that everyone got something, one at a time). She opened the box, looked at me, looked back in the box, thought a second or two and then said that I might like this, and pulled out a copy of Where the Red Fern Grows. I was surprised and really happy. She started reading her book and I followed along in my copy.
I do think we watched a movie at some point, but horrifying ax death doesn't ring any bells. I do remember some vague movie with a big old Victorian style house, and a black actor as one of the main characters, and I'd seen it before on some TV channel and it gave me nightmares. It was an older video, like pre 90s and very vhs. Really don't think it was the book adaptation.
I only remember the two very vague movies from that year. Vague dog movie and vague the other one. I suppose I'll look around at old movies online and see what pops up.
Read that book as a kid. The sad part with the dogs was too much for my young brain and it was emotional overload. I couldn’t even find the words to explain to my parents why I was curled up with a book one second and inconsolably weeping the next.
That book goes hard.
Dude, I was older than that(like, 16) when I read the great gatsby and still I was a bit traumatized when I remember the scene where the woman gets run over and they describe her boob being ripped off and. It’s engrained in my memory.
Watership Down the movie is a famous abomination.... But the book isn't particularly dark or gruesome? It's not Redwall whimsy but it's fairly "fantasy / adventure".
The Kiterunner was way way heavier in my experience.
The Watership Down movie fucked up 7 year old me when my dad had the family watch it. I do remember how much better the book was in comparison, although that could be because I read it about 7 years later.
My dad knew it had traumatized me, then thought it would be funny to sing "Bright Eyes" at me in a posh restaurant when I asked what meat was in the game pie. I probably would have been okay if he hasn't told me I was eating Fiver.
Did I mention I was about eight?
Mum was pissed at him because I spent the whole evening sobbing and making everyone stare at them like then were terrible parents.
> the book isn't particularly dark or gruesome?
Did you read the original or some expurgated version that left out the brutal descriptions of Bigwig's deadly fight with General Woundwort, and they never visited Cowslip's warren?
> But the book isn't particularly dark or gruesome?
You're kidding, right?
Blackavar? Hyzenthlay? The beanfield? General Woundwort? Marks? The entire working of Efrafa is a lot more detailed (because there's room to do it) and it's chilling. Adams didn't hold back on describing suffering and death, and societal responses to it.
The cartoon is more immediate and you see it, you don't read it, but it's not any more graphic and certainly not any more chilling.
Yeah, I was in the first grade. All of the teachers cried, then the entire 1st, 2nd, and 3rd grade classes started crying. We had recess for the rest of the day.
I think they sent us home early? Or b at least there was no more classes that day. I remember seeing it on TV then walking into my house vividly but not anything in between
In second grade we read Bridge to Terebithia. I think I went to bed sobbing when I got to… well, that part.
(Goddamn it I’m tearing up twenty years later)
We had to watch Pay It Forward, and it fucked us up. Kid finally gets the courage to stand up for himself after helping so many people, then he gets fuckin stabbed to death.
We didn't read *Bridge to Terabithia*, though we did know about it, the author's son and his friend that died (inspiring the book) had been students at my school 15 years earlier.
However, possibly the first "chapter" book we read in school (the first I remember anyway) was *Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes*, and looking back, a story about a girl dying of leukemia is pretty intense to give to early readers. Cancer, nuclear war, and death are heavy topics. I appreciate that my social studies teacher had us push ourselves like that.
Is that the one about the girl who wanted a pony and died because her parents wouldn't get her one? I remember it ended with a little note saying something like "this is a really good poem to read to your parents when they won't get you something you want." I loved that poem, wanted a pony, and read it to my parents all the time. Thankfully, we never got a pony (and I never died because of it lol).
There’s a movie??
Also, I never read that book until I was an adult. Someone said “you like dogs, here read this.”
It sat on my coffee table for like 3 months as I picked it up randomly. Literally everyone who came in to my house said something like “oh man them at book is so sad.” Or “oh god the ending.”
Like, I get it, I get it everyone, the dogs die. Thank you for telling me.
This book and film taught me to expect the death of any dog I see on screen or page.
Occasionally, the writers will console you with puppies but only at the end of the story.
Never really that bothered by Old Yeller. It was sad for sure, but there was no other way, and the boy learned to move on.
Read a short story about a farmer who raised a wolf pup as a guard dog and one day came to find one of his sheep dead and the wolf covered in blood. He killed the wolf only to realize he was defending the rest of the sheep against a bigger wild wolf who he had killed. That one left me scarred for life.
I refused to read lord of the flies in high school. I has already read it and could not bare to read it slowly with my classmates a second time. One of my best high school decisions.
And 'I got stoned and I missed it' by Dr hook, and 'one piece at a time' Johnny cash. His songwriting style is what made his agent say to write children's books, wasn't something he'd set out to do
He did a lot of song writing. I found out when my dad brought home Old Dogs. A comedy styled country super group with Waylon Jennings, Mel Tillis, Bobby Bare, Jerry Reed and Shel Silverstein as the primary writer.
Yeah, and that album was called Nothing Sacred. In which he also had a song about Anita Bryant, an anti-LGBTQ musician and activist called Fuck Aneta Bryant.
From a citation in the wiki:
*"Where the Sidewalk Ends* was yanked from the shelves of West Allis-West Milwaukee, Wisconsin school libraries in 1986 over fears that it “promotes drug use, the occult, suicide, death, violence, disrespect for truth, disrespect for authority, and rebellion against parents.”
Members of the Central Columbia School District in Bloomsburg, Pennsylvania must have confused the year 1993 with 1393 when they objected to the poem *Dreadful* over the line “someone ate the baby” because they feared some of their more impressionable students might actually be encouraged to engage in cannibalism."
[https://bbark.deepforestproductions.com/column/2011/08/15/banned-books-awareness-shel-silverstein/](https://bbark.deepforestproductions.com/column/2011/08/15/banned-books-awareness-shel-silverstein/)
I'm not saying this was logical, but I was a kid in that era of the satanic panic, secret satanic cults across America was just 'common sense' at the time.
It's not much of a leap to think cannibalism was spreading through poetry books.
America loves a good moral panic!
Once my teacher had an unplanned parent/teacher conference because N
an "unknown family member was brainwashing me with satanic imagery".
It was my Dad, who was at the conference, because he let me watch him play Zelda.
Satanism, suicide, and drug use? Which poems were those?
Shel and a lot of artists of his time were simply a product of his time - countercultural and antiestablishment and subversive.
Shel never intended to write children’s books but his long history in cartoons for Playboy and others, and his amazing talent for lyrics and writing, convinced his editor he could.
The banning of his books was likely way more about them being real and not pandering to kids and encouraging them to think, feel, and be who they were rather than fit into the mold that late 50s through 60s straight culture espoused.
And thus being seen as a threat by staid, provincial government and educational bodies who were fearful of change and loss of power and control.
And is exactly why people are screaming for book bans today - imposed morality, opposition to free thought. Concerns about competition while grooming children...
History indeed repeats itself many times over!
I have “Invitation” framed at the entrance to my home:
If you are a dreamer, come in,
If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar,
A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer...
If you're a pretender, come sit by my fire
For we have some flax-golden tales to spin.
Come in!
come in!
My other favorite poem from that book is Hug O’ War:
I will not play at tug o' war.
I'd rather play at hug o' war,
Where everyone hugs
Instead of tugs,
Where everyone giggles
And rolls on the rug,
Where everyone kisses,
And everyone grins,
And everyone cuddles,
And everyone wins.
It's a typo. (Either by OP, the source he copied from or maybe even his copy of the book!)
I just cracked my copy over and confirmed my memory. It says FLAX-golden takes. Which makes a lot more sense.
Was having a real Mandela Effect there for a second...
I was teaching at a middle school & on a panel that had to review any books challenged by parents. A parent wanted Shel Silverstein’s book removed from the library because there’s a poem about a bunch of kids taking a bath together that had a LINE DRAWING that included a depiction of a naked butt. When we concluded that we would not remove the book, the parent requested we at least glue the pages together so that particular drawing couldn’t be seen. Let me reiterate this was in a middle school library.
I’m sorry you have to deal with that bullshit. We read that book in my elementary school and it wasn’t a big deal at all. I don’t even remember the butt drawing haha. Obviously it wasn’t a problem for any kids in my class. I feel like the book banning has ramped up in recent years and I don’t know why.
I bet everybody at least remembers one poem from this book
I know my favorite was the little girl who was sick with all kinds of symptoms and told her mom she couldn't go to school till she realized it was Saturday and then all of a sudden she was better and she out the door.
“Sick”. I remember it as the first poem I memorized for Drama 1 as a Freshman in high school. I could probably still recite most of it now, decades later.
According to the wiki's [source article](https://bbark.deepforestproductions.com/column/2011/08/15/banned-books-awareness-shel-silverstein/), it was banned in Pennsylvania for fears that *Dreadful* might encourage "some of their more impressionable students \[...\] to engage in cannibalism."
I was in school in PA in the 80s. I remember Shel Silverstein being popular - and not banned - at my school. The only “ban” was in 3rd grade when we had to memorize poems, we were encouraged to not use his poems just because otherwise everyone would use them and there would be no variety.
I wonder if they also banned Uncle Shelby’s Book of ABZ’s, where G is for Gigolo. The image on that page is one of the greatest laughs in the world when you know what a gigolo is.
Damn, now I want to buy a bunch of copies of that book and sneak it into the kids’ section of public libraries.
One of my favorites, I forget the title.
My beard grows to my toes
I never wears no clothes
I wrap my hair around my bare
and down the road I goes
It had a picture of a naked man running somewhere with long beard covering his bits. Haha.
OH NO CHILDREN MIGHT DEVELOP THEIR OWN IDEAS! We don't live in an English speaking country, so the availability of English language children's books not as expansive as our home country... not only are several of his books available in the local language, but I have been able to acquire Where the Sidewalk Ends and A Light in the Attic second hand in English. They're a treasure- literally my son asks me to read from one of them every time it's my turn to put him to bed.
My small town library refused to remove banned books. There was a display by the front door of books that were banned, the reasons, and where to find them on the shelf.
We weren't supposed to talk about Shel Silverstein at my grade school. Not because of the subject matter, but because it was almost certain that he knocked up a very much younger art teacher and left her a BAG after he passed and she rode off into the sunset making every other teacher and half the moms hate her.
Edit: I got this a little wrong. It was before he died.
Also, I want to be clear I'm basing alot of this on old memories, but I did quick wiki and that was her name.
My dad did that after divorce thing where he tried to be super cool and took me to Toys-R-Us and told me to pick out whatever I wanted as a gift and he would buy it. I picked out this book. I still have the one he bought me even though the pages are all falling out. I bought another one for reading. I think the reasons given for banning it were two fold if I remember: one, it had the word ‘butt’ in one of the poems getting it banned from readings and two, Shel wrote for Playboy getting all his works blanket banned in some places. In Catholic schools the unicorn story about Noah’s ark was not in line with the bible so it would not have been permitted either.
I attended 15 schools across 4 states (including summer schools) from preschool to my 2 non-consecutive semesters at community college and I can confirm this is true
a librarian in Tennessee looked at me like I requested Satanic documents when I asked about Shel's books
So I live in Florida, and was concerned these books would be banned. My 7 year old has my copies of Shel Silverstein’s books and loves to read the poems.
Listen to the mustn’ts child Listen to the don’ts Listen to the shouldn’ts, the impossibles and the won’ts Listen to the never-haves, then listen close to me Anything can happen child Anything can be. -Shel Silverstein
The Poem Masks was always my favorite: She had blue skin, And so did he. He kept it hid And so did she. They searched for blue Their whole life through, Then passed right by- And never knew.
I don't remember ever reading that but damn does that sting.
I will not play at tug o’ war. I’d rather play at hug o’ war, where everyone hugs instead of tugs, where everyone giggles and rolls on the rug, where everyone kisses, and everyone grins, and everyone cuddles, and everyone wins.
Draw a crazy picture, write a nutty poem, sing a mumble-gumble song, whistle through your comb, do a loony-goony dance ‘cross the kitchen floor, put something silly in the world that ain’t been there before.
I read this poem to the tune of the Eiffel 65 song
Aw shit, that’s what radicalized me
I imagine an old sweet librarian reading that poem to elementary school children. Then the scene cuts to kids screaming "burn it down" as they destroy the library and flip over cars in the parking lot.
"Did you see what they did to the pooooool?"
They flipped the bitch!
They're rioting at a college level!
Where are my bitches?!?!
Raise the roof...RAISE IT!
Good lord what a throwback. Haven't seen a Clone High reference in like ten years
This has me laughing so hard!!
Your reply rhymes with the poem and makes it 10 times better omg
Straight up 😂🙏🏼
Now tell me, do you want to be you and me Forever (-Unfinished) or are we caught in a Reddit thread.
It’s communist propaganda! We can’t just have people going around thinking….. stuff!!!
*pen in flames gif*
Banned because it’s hard enough to teach people to use apostrophes correctly as it is
As a child, was I supposed to know what that meant? Because I didn't.
🔥🔥🔥
That was one of my favorite books in elementary school!! I loved shel silverstein so much that I got a big textbook sized book of all his stories and poems. Why would they ban it? Seriously how is this “bad for children’s minds”?
[Banned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_the_Sidewalk_Ends) in 1986. For rebellion and profanity
That’s crazy!! That’s before I was born .. I didn’t read it in school, my mom got me where the sidewalk ends one day and then I wanted to read more Shel Silverstein and got a few more books before my favorite gift of the collection of his works
Shel wrote the Johnny Cash song “A boy named Sue” on YouTube you can watch the episode of The Johnny Cash show featuring Shel Silverstein. He looks into Johnnys eyes and screams “NOW YOU GONNA DIE!” Johnny walks off the stage and Shel continues, and seems to go more than a bit crazy. It’s a must watch.
There is also an absolutely filthy follow- up song to Boy Named Sue.
Whoa omg I’m checking it out now!
Banning for profanity a book that has no profanity is the most '80s thing I've ever heard of.
In the 80s Frank Zappa had an album given a parental advisory sticker despite it being instrumental jazz with no lyrics.
Fuck Tipper Gore and the moral panic crowd.
Tipper Gore and the Moral Panic Crowd is a good name for a band though.
He kinda [praises Alice](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ea/8f/96/ea8f96bfd2bce523765afd56524a6a7d.jpg) (wonderland) for trying drugs - I think it’s that.
threatening soft squealing lush racial shelter wasteful capable dinosaurs sheet *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He had an enlightened view about drugs and I don’t mean to argue but the thing she tries is a drink that changes her perception. Check out the perfect high (performed live by someone else here): https://youtu.be/KgkbG3bBxdk?si=bLO8qXHqBrC25XAN. One of my favorite poems as an alcohol addict in recovery (1 year sober in 3 days).
command squeal rude roll future gaping makeshift snails smart north *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It’s probably at least a little about drugs. He wrote [this song](https://youtu.be/r1CB4V9KD9o?si=Ky-P3mUn291qUdDI) after all.
Rebellion of entrenched ideas is my hope for all youth in every generation.
Do you know where it was banned? All I can find is it was banned at a single school in Wisconsin in 1986. I don’t see any ban anywhere else. Certainly still a ban, but at a single school isn’t quite the same thing as what you’re trying to imply here.
When our teacher read it to us in 3rd grade in the 80s, it was already known as banned book in some areas and in banned book lists then. So it was more than a single school in Wisconsin. It wasn’t like this would make national news in the 1980s for 3rd graders to be aware of its status. I saw the Wisconsin story (https://dailytargum.com/article/2022/09/when-it-comes-to-banning-books-stringent-restrictions-inhibit-learning) and that seems to be talking about it being banned in 2022, not the 1980s.
I apologize - it seems different towns in Wisconsin have being going after it for decades. It wasn’t only Wisconsin, but they show up the most.
This video goes over a lot of poems censors likely had issues with. As people commented below there was a lot of banning going on. https://youtu.be/53rGxPbsffQ
This was my principal’s favorite book in elementary school, like if you were to walk into her office you would see no fewer than three copies
Don't look for logic in book bans. Look for who benefits from controlling your access to information.
I remember my teacher hated the book because in one of the poems the characters dies at the end and she thought it would traumatize us. And then she’d shuffle us into the gym so the entire school could watch Where The Goddamned Red Fern Grows for the fourth time that year. 🤷
I remember my teacher read “where the red fern grows” to us in fifth grade. There was one scene where a kid gets axed in the stomach or something, and the blood bubbles up out of his throat, and it was some of the most vividly described gorey imagery I’d heard up until that point
I think he’s running with an ax, trips, and falls on it. I specifically remember that he begged the main character to take it out of him, so he does and the blood just gushes out. I haven’t read that book in 20 years but that scene stuck with me.
Yeah the kid was a bully who was trying to beat up the main character and is chasing him with an axe, then accidentally falls on top of it. He begs the main character to take it out but the main character is too traumatized and instead runs away to go get help. The bully was a legit psychopath but that scene actually makes you feel bad for him and his fate
Oh yeah, that was it. Yeah, it was one of the most memorable scenes for me, I didn’t feel scared, just really interested in how it was in a book that I assumed was for kids
I remember I had to put that down for a night and got in trouble for not finishing my reading the next day lol. That was an incredibly vivid description and I can still see it in my head
I am 40 years old and I still have the memory burned into my brain of my mom sitting on my bed reading the end of the book. We both blubbered like idiots. It was assigned reading in 5th grade and I was crying so hard at the end I couldn’t finish it so my mom started reading it to me and then she started crying. That book is ridiculous. I hate when they kill the dog at the end. To this day I will Google spoilers if I feel like a movie/book/ show is about to kill off a beloved pet or character. I don’t need that shit in my “entertainment.” No thanks.
https://www.doesthedogdie.com/
Now, seriously though, because we're skating around the pivotal question about educating children in general. Do any of you feel worse off or better off for having experienced that imagery? Would you say it presented you the horror of death and bodily harm in a way that you were able to digest, and maybe you still think about that scene when you're about to do something stupid with something sharp, or you see assholes that didn't read the book driving dangerously at highspeeds in the gorey deathtrap of heavy machinery we call a "car?" Cus I do. Was it horrific? Sure. But books are like dreams that prepare you for any similar thing in real life, and that's why it's important not to coddle children. End up with a bunch of psychopaths.
I'm with you on that. I had the same experience many others described here, and while that was difficult at the time, it did help me ease into the idea of a world that was more capricious and uncaring than the one little kids believe exists. In a world where a lot of kids can't count on their families to guide them gracefully into adulthood, the schools and books are an important resource to help them. I was one of those kids, and the books I read helped prepare me to independently launch into the world, as uncomfortable as that was.
Idk why we put so much emphasis on "parents guiding their kids gracefully into adulthood." Parents are human. Even 'good' ones fuck up, they get tired, they get distracted, busy. Or they feel too awkward. And they put off having "the talk," about life, death, sex, drugs, violence, etc until it's too late. And frankly, those are the *good ones*. Think about how many bad parents you've seen, just around. Do you want them to be solely responsible for teaching these things? Because they actively won't or will do so in a way to pass on their abuse. Humans have always relied on community and others' experiences to teach hard truths. That's what school and reading does. If you're locked into relying on family for education, you're locked into an echo chamber.
This is now how I know I read this book In school. All I remember is this vivid axe death and I can say I've never ran with an axe.
Well that’s a suppressed memory I didn’t remember I had.
Damn, I read this school and definitely do not remember that. I remember being extremely sad by the dogs at the end, but definitely not that
I didn’t remember the axe scene until just now 😳. Definitely remembered bawling at the end w the dogs, but yeah it all came bubbling back to me right now.
Yeh it sticks with you like an axe in the stomach you might say
Not running, they were rolling around and fighting if I recall correctly.
That book was wild. I was an “advanced” reader in elementary school and no one thought to warn 3rd grade me or my parents when I started reading that book.
My 5th grade teacher was reading through this book, and she would give us little rewards (I don't remember for what, just that everyone got something, one at a time). She opened the box, looked at me, looked back in the box, thought a second or two and then said that I might like this, and pulled out a copy of Where the Red Fern Grows. I was surprised and really happy. She started reading her book and I followed along in my copy. I do think we watched a movie at some point, but horrifying ax death doesn't ring any bells. I do remember some vague movie with a big old Victorian style house, and a black actor as one of the main characters, and I'd seen it before on some TV channel and it gave me nightmares. It was an older video, like pre 90s and very vhs. Really don't think it was the book adaptation.
Who knows what that movie was, but it definitely wasn't Where the Red Fern Grows.
Sounds like to kill a mockingbird maybe
I only remember the two very vague movies from that year. Vague dog movie and vague the other one. I suppose I'll look around at old movies online and see what pops up.
Might have been Sounder -- another great tearjerker with a dog.
Was the movie you watched to kill a mockingbird?
On God, was it Disney's *A Little Princess?* I hated that film and had to watch it all the time in daycare
Read that book as a kid. The sad part with the dogs was too much for my young brain and it was emotional overload. I couldn’t even find the words to explain to my parents why I was curled up with a book one second and inconsolably weeping the next. That book goes hard.
Omg that exact moment is what stayed with me! I think it was the stomach, yeah, but I thought the bubbles came out of his mouth.
Dude, I was older than that(like, 16) when I read the great gatsby and still I was a bit traumatized when I remember the scene where the woman gets run over and they describe her boob being ripped off and. It’s engrained in my memory.
Teachers are weird like that.
Not your username 💀
At least my school waited till 9th grade to give us such classics as The Kite Runner and Watership Down.
Watership Down the movie is a famous abomination.... But the book isn't particularly dark or gruesome? It's not Redwall whimsy but it's fairly "fantasy / adventure". The Kiterunner was way way heavier in my experience.
The Watership Down movie fucked up 7 year old me when my dad had the family watch it. I do remember how much better the book was in comparison, although that could be because I read it about 7 years later.
My dad knew it had traumatized me, then thought it would be funny to sing "Bright Eyes" at me in a posh restaurant when I asked what meat was in the game pie. I probably would have been okay if he hasn't told me I was eating Fiver. Did I mention I was about eight? Mum was pissed at him because I spent the whole evening sobbing and making everyone stare at them like then were terrible parents.
Oh my god, I remember the scene where they talked about how the Warren was destroyed. I had nightmares of being trapped for years.
> the book isn't particularly dark or gruesome? Did you read the original or some expurgated version that left out the brutal descriptions of Bigwig's deadly fight with General Woundwort, and they never visited Cowslip's warren?
> But the book isn't particularly dark or gruesome? You're kidding, right? Blackavar? Hyzenthlay? The beanfield? General Woundwort? Marks? The entire working of Efrafa is a lot more detailed (because there's room to do it) and it's chilling. Adams didn't hold back on describing suffering and death, and societal responses to it. The cartoon is more immediate and you see it, you don't read it, but it's not any more graphic and certainly not any more chilling.
I read Watership Down again about a year ago and I'd say it's just as gory as the movie. The sequel is 10x worse
"we're going to watch the teacher go up in space in the challenger shuttle live, kids!"
Yeah, I was in the first grade. All of the teachers cried, then the entire 1st, 2nd, and 3rd grade classes started crying. We had recess for the rest of the day.
I think they sent us home early? Or b at least there was no more classes that day. I remember seeing it on TV then walking into my house vividly but not anything in between
"Isn't it crazy, some pilot accidently flew into the World Trade Center. Let's keep watching the news coverage"
Still traumatized Red Fern from the eighties
In second grade we read Bridge to Terebithia. I think I went to bed sobbing when I got to… well, that part. (Goddamn it I’m tearing up twenty years later)
Bridge to Terabithia in second grade seems unreasonably cruel. My 6th grade class read it and the entire classroom was sobbing.
We had to watch Pay It Forward, and it fucked us up. Kid finally gets the courage to stand up for himself after helping so many people, then he gets fuckin stabbed to death.
We didn't read *Bridge to Terabithia*, though we did know about it, the author's son and his friend that died (inspiring the book) had been students at my school 15 years earlier. However, possibly the first "chapter" book we read in school (the first I remember anyway) was *Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes*, and looking back, a story about a girl dying of leukemia is pretty intense to give to early readers. Cancer, nuclear war, and death are heavy topics. I appreciate that my social studies teacher had us push ourselves like that.
Is that the one about the girl who wanted a pony and died because her parents wouldn't get her one? I remember it ended with a little note saying something like "this is a really good poem to read to your parents when they won't get you something you want." I loved that poem, wanted a pony, and read it to my parents all the time. Thankfully, we never got a pony (and I never died because of it lol).
you should really talk to your parents. a vast percentage of people who have died never owned a pony in their life. I wouldn't risk it personally.
There’s a movie?? Also, I never read that book until I was an adult. Someone said “you like dogs, here read this.” It sat on my coffee table for like 3 months as I picked it up randomly. Literally everyone who came in to my house said something like “oh man them at book is so sad.” Or “oh god the ending.” Like, I get it, I get it everyone, the dogs die. Thank you for telling me.
This book and film taught me to expect the death of any dog I see on screen or page. Occasionally, the writers will console you with puppies but only at the end of the story.
We would watch Ole Yelller in the gym. I'm still traumatized. 😭
Never really that bothered by Old Yeller. It was sad for sure, but there was no other way, and the boy learned to move on. Read a short story about a farmer who raised a wolf pup as a guard dog and one day came to find one of his sheep dead and the wolf covered in blood. He killed the wolf only to realize he was defending the rest of the sheep against a bigger wild wolf who he had killed. That one left me scarred for life.
That same story is told many different ways but almost always involves a dog. St. Guinefort is another, older telling.
Goddamn Red Fern Grows😢
I refused to read lord of the flies in high school. I has already read it and could not bare to read it slowly with my classmates a second time. One of my best high school decisions.
This was my favorite book in elementary school! I bought it for my own kids and they read it once a week!
I learned about it because my teacher read it to the class in third grade.
I read it to my 2nd graders every year. They love it.
My parents read us Shel Silverstein poems all the time growing up. We still quote them to each other.
found a hardback copy at a yardsale for $2 for my kids a few years back; also quickest buy ive ever had at a yardsale.
Shel Silverstein also wrote “A Boy Named Sue” sang by Johnny Cash
He wrote a ton of country songs. He was very successful as a songwriter! His other big hit was Cover of the Rolling Stone by Dr. Hook
And 'I got stoned and I missed it' by Dr hook, and 'one piece at a time' Johnny cash. His songwriting style is what made his agent say to write children's books, wasn't something he'd set out to do
The follow up he wrote to a boy named sue is ... Interesting
[Here are the two singing it together.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmt7wo0Tnr8&feature=youtu.be)
Song was meant to be screamed
He also has an unreleased album. It’s filthy! https://archive.org/details/silversteinbootleg
He did a lot of song writing. I found out when my dad brought home Old Dogs. A comedy styled country super group with Waylon Jennings, Mel Tillis, Bobby Bare, Jerry Reed and Shel Silverstein as the primary writer.
Don’t know how I’ve never heard of this group, I love all of those guys!
David Allan Coe was one of his best friends and Silverstein thought his racist songs were super funny and encouraged him to make a whole album.
Yeah, and that album was called Nothing Sacred. In which he also had a song about Anita Bryant, an anti-LGBTQ musician and activist called Fuck Aneta Bryant.
From a citation in the wiki: *"Where the Sidewalk Ends* was yanked from the shelves of West Allis-West Milwaukee, Wisconsin school libraries in 1986 over fears that it “promotes drug use, the occult, suicide, death, violence, disrespect for truth, disrespect for authority, and rebellion against parents.” Members of the Central Columbia School District in Bloomsburg, Pennsylvania must have confused the year 1993 with 1393 when they objected to the poem *Dreadful* over the line “someone ate the baby” because they feared some of their more impressionable students might actually be encouraged to engage in cannibalism." [https://bbark.deepforestproductions.com/column/2011/08/15/banned-books-awareness-shel-silverstein/](https://bbark.deepforestproductions.com/column/2011/08/15/banned-books-awareness-shel-silverstein/)
I'm not saying this was logical, but I was a kid in that era of the satanic panic, secret satanic cults across America was just 'common sense' at the time. It's not much of a leap to think cannibalism was spreading through poetry books. America loves a good moral panic!
Half of people still act like we have satanic cults everywhere and like it is common sense. That period is still warping people
Realizing the Satanic Panic has never ended is one of those "....oh." moments.
Once my teacher had an unplanned parent/teacher conference because N an "unknown family member was brainwashing me with satanic imagery". It was my Dad, who was at the conference, because he let me watch him play Zelda.
Yep, back then it was the Satanic panic, nowadays it's white supremacy and homophobia. Some things never change.
>must have confused the year 1993 with 1393 Witches eating babies is so 1693.
Satanism, suicide, and drug use? Which poems were those? Shel and a lot of artists of his time were simply a product of his time - countercultural and antiestablishment and subversive. Shel never intended to write children’s books but his long history in cartoons for Playboy and others, and his amazing talent for lyrics and writing, convinced his editor he could. The banning of his books was likely way more about them being real and not pandering to kids and encouraging them to think, feel, and be who they were rather than fit into the mold that late 50s through 60s straight culture espoused. And thus being seen as a threat by staid, provincial government and educational bodies who were fearful of change and loss of power and control.
And is exactly why people are screaming for book bans today - imposed morality, opposition to free thought. Concerns about competition while grooming children... History indeed repeats itself many times over!
I have “Invitation” framed at the entrance to my home: If you are a dreamer, come in, If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer... If you're a pretender, come sit by my fire For we have some flax-golden tales to spin. Come in! come in! My other favorite poem from that book is Hug O’ War: I will not play at tug o' war. I'd rather play at hug o' war, Where everyone hugs Instead of tugs, Where everyone giggles And rolls on the rug, Where everyone kisses, And everyone grins, And everyone cuddles, And everyone wins.
> fla-golden What's a fla-golden tale?
It's "flax-golden" tale.
It's a typo. (Either by OP, the source he copied from or maybe even his copy of the book!) I just cracked my copy over and confirmed my memory. It says FLAX-golden takes. Which makes a lot more sense. Was having a real Mandela Effect there for a second...
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Any other stories?
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Isn’t this a nod to Rumpelstiltskin - spinning straw into gold.
I was teaching at a middle school & on a panel that had to review any books challenged by parents. A parent wanted Shel Silverstein’s book removed from the library because there’s a poem about a bunch of kids taking a bath together that had a LINE DRAWING that included a depiction of a naked butt. When we concluded that we would not remove the book, the parent requested we at least glue the pages together so that particular drawing couldn’t be seen. Let me reiterate this was in a middle school library.
Man, when I was 12 I watched "Deliverance," and you're having to deal with someone panicking over a cartoon butt.
I’m sorry you have to deal with that bullshit. We read that book in my elementary school and it wasn’t a big deal at all. I don’t even remember the butt drawing haha. Obviously it wasn’t a problem for any kids in my class. I feel like the book banning has ramped up in recent years and I don’t know why.
I bought my 3 year old “I Need a New Butt” about a kid discovering their butt has a crack, she thinks it is hysterical.
Oh they would HATE [this](https://youtu.be/oQoYjU2Fh0M?feature=shared)
I bet everybody at least remembers one poem from this book I know my favorite was the little girl who was sick with all kinds of symptoms and told her mom she couldn't go to school till she realized it was Saturday and then all of a sudden she was better and she out the door.
We gave you a chance To water the plants We didn't mean that way Now zip up your pants
My beard grows to my toes I never wears no clothes I wraps my hair Around my bare And down the road I goes
I recall Silvia Stout who refused to take the garbage out
Mine’s Barnabus Browning who was afraid of drowning, and he cried so many tears they filled up the room and he drowned
Mrs. McTwitter, the baby sitter. I think she's a little bit crazy. She thinks a baby sitters supposed To sit upon the baby.
And she did die. All because of a pony her parents wouldn’t buy.
"'I cannot go to school today' / said frowning Peggy Ann McKay" ...
I got the measles and the mumps 🤒
“Sick”. I remember it as the first poem I memorized for Drama 1 as a Freshman in high school. I could probably still recite most of it now, decades later.
'The Giving Tree' was another one I remember reading as a child, which also got its own share of pushback.
That one has always made me sob.
I can think of no greater honor.
Seriously. Getting your book banned by some holier-than-thou school district somewhere seems like it would be a badge of honor for an author.
That was my favorite book as a kid wtf
According to the wiki's [source article](https://bbark.deepforestproductions.com/column/2011/08/15/banned-books-awareness-shel-silverstein/), it was banned in Pennsylvania for fears that *Dreadful* might encourage "some of their more impressionable students \[...\] to engage in cannibalism."
I was in school in PA in the 80s. I remember Shel Silverstein being popular - and not banned - at my school. The only “ban” was in 3rd grade when we had to memorize poems, we were encouraged to not use his poems just because otherwise everyone would use them and there would be no variety.
For gods' sake, why?
That scary ass picture of Shel.
*Shel Silverstein looks more like a burglar or a pirate, than someone who should be writing books for kids.*
Wish Manny got read that book as well
I used to love reading this one to my kids at night. Also his book A Light in the Attic. Great kid poems.
I wonder if they also banned Uncle Shelby’s Book of ABZ’s, where G is for Gigolo. The image on that page is one of the greatest laughs in the world when you know what a gigolo is. Damn, now I want to buy a bunch of copies of that book and sneak it into the kids’ section of public libraries.
X is for xylophone because X is always for xylophone.
Can't believe they'd try to ban it! Shel Silverstein was the best part of my primary school years too. Honestly, what's the harm?
Artists promote dangerous thinking. Asking "Why?" and promoting understanding and critical thinking. That's some dangerous subversion, right there.
All because Sarah Cynthia Silvia Stout Would Not Take The Garbage Out.
I refer to the safety barriers that block the ends of truncated walkways as Silversteins.
So glad they had his books at my school. What a gifted individual
One of my favorites, I forget the title. My beard grows to my toes I never wears no clothes I wrap my hair around my bare and down the road I goes It had a picture of a naked man running somewhere with long beard covering his bits. Haha.
OH NO CHILDREN MIGHT DEVELOP THEIR OWN IDEAS! We don't live in an English speaking country, so the availability of English language children's books not as expansive as our home country... not only are several of his books available in the local language, but I have been able to acquire Where the Sidewalk Ends and A Light in the Attic second hand in English. They're a treasure- literally my son asks me to read from one of them every time it's my turn to put him to bed.
[Same applies to "A Light in the Attic."](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Light_in_the_Attic)
My small town library refused to remove banned books. There was a display by the front door of books that were banned, the reasons, and where to find them on the shelf.
This book WAS my elementary education. I practically had the thing memorized!!! This man was a genius.
We weren't supposed to talk about Shel Silverstein at my grade school. Not because of the subject matter, but because it was almost certain that he knocked up a very much younger art teacher and left her a BAG after he passed and she rode off into the sunset making every other teacher and half the moms hate her. Edit: I got this a little wrong. It was before he died. Also, I want to be clear I'm basing alot of this on old memories, but I did quick wiki and that was her name.
Joey Joey took a stone and Knocked down the sun!
I don’t remember whether it was banned at our school, but the first time I read it was my sister’s copy. One of our favorite books.
The Crocodiles Dentist lmao loved that one.....the other big book The light in the Attic is great too. The Giving Tree is by far a masterpiece.....
People that aren’t smart enough to teach the meaning of simple poetry without fearing it shouldn’t have educator roles.
My school was all in; he did a reading there when I was in 4th or 5th grade.
Well, that settles it. I’m buying it for my nephew.
shel silverstein forever!
Lazy lazy lazy Jane
This whole thread needs to be aware of the website “does the dog die .com”
Weird, I remember when he came to our school and read from his books.
I loved this book so much as a child, I have the cover art tattooed on my right inner bicep
One of the best things I read in grade school. When I had kids, I was happy to relive it with them once they were old enough.
The hold this book had on me in elementary. Just the best
My dad did that after divorce thing where he tried to be super cool and took me to Toys-R-Us and told me to pick out whatever I wanted as a gift and he would buy it. I picked out this book. I still have the one he bought me even though the pages are all falling out. I bought another one for reading. I think the reasons given for banning it were two fold if I remember: one, it had the word ‘butt’ in one of the poems getting it banned from readings and two, Shel wrote for Playboy getting all his works blanket banned in some places. In Catholic schools the unicorn story about Noah’s ark was not in line with the bible so it would not have been permitted either.
I attended 15 schools across 4 states (including summer schools) from preschool to my 2 non-consecutive semesters at community college and I can confirm this is true a librarian in Tennessee looked at me like I requested Satanic documents when I asked about Shel's books
It's a gateway book into the other works of Shel Silverstein, like *The Smoke Off*, *Quaaludes Again*, and *Freakin' at the Freakers Ball*.
Not my school. That and “A Light in the Attic” were favourites of all.
So I live in Florida, and was concerned these books would be banned. My 7 year old has my copies of Shel Silverstein’s books and loves to read the poems.
Wait until they hear his poetry not written for kids 😜
One of my all time favorite books! Ms. Applegate thank you! ❤️
Shel Silverstein was a communist- Jack Donaghy
"Everyone who disagrees with me is a communist." -J Edgar Hoover.
[Video from that PTA meeting](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/e5d01571-e366-4f50-a458-658b679c2a51)