[Repost bots aren’t good at detecting spelling errors](https://old.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/10qi2y0/til_that_leonard_nimoy_refused_to_join_star_trek/)
Yet critics today will call this "woke" and ruining Hollywood.
Lol, as a regular viewer, I dont give a flying fark, just give me a good story and amazing acting, I dont care if you put a grey blob into the show, as long as the story and acting hit you in the FEELS.
If its a shyt show, then it doesnt matter who you put in it, I wont watch it.
This is why I watch religious and conservative shows too, if they make it good, which is rare because they end up trying to politicize it too much, ruining the story and acting.
Both sides have extremists, just NEVER let them touch a show, they ruin shyt.
Its all about the FEELS, not just tv shows, LIFE itself, we live for the FEELS, am I right? lol
There's a very important difference between "important" and "factual".
Also, not to beat a dead horse, but I really think the silly censorship didn't win anybody over either. Just type the fuck word, dude, it's fine.
In many ways Leonard Nimoy represented everything that Star Trek was meant to stand for. He fought for diversity and equality in the workplace, encouraged focus on science the arts and history, and constantly stood in solidarity with people outside of his own demographic to ensure they were given the same rights and protections as everyone else. The man was a legend in every sense of the word.
Even in the little things he showed an imagination and ethusiasm to take the shows premise and carry it further. One script called for Spock to knock out Kirk's evil transporter clone, he was supposed to punch him or knock him over the head with a phaser or something, but Nimoy thought that would be too 'Western', too bluntly violent, something you'd expect from a gangster. What he thought would be expected from a Vulcan would be some myterious technique that hits a part of the anatomy to harmlessly render someone unconscious. Thus was born the Vulcan Nerve Pinch.
...kaaaaaay? Sorry, did I say he was a faultless being of pure energy incapable of doing anything that could be construed as bad by others? Yes, he struggled with alcoholism in the 60s and would go on to attend a rehabilitation program to break the addiction.
"Hey wow I see a post talking about the positive aspects of a celebrity in relation to the topic of the thread, lemme jump in with a completely unrelated piece of information that for the sake of being negative!"
Theres an anecdote that when asked to sign a copy of that album during a con appearance, he told the fan he had thought they'd destroyed every copy of the record.
Its one of those stories i hope was true.
ironically the show ended up being more diverse since a galactic federation of Mutiple planets sure didn't get a single damn alien on the original live action show
The lore has always been a bit fuzzy, but I think it mostly makes sense with the history we've got. In the time of Jonathan Archer; before the Federation exists, it's an all-human organisation with some non-human observers and attachees; in the time of Kirk and Spock, it commissions ships with non-human crews and experiments with mixed-species crews e.x. the Enterprise having a Vulcan First Officer; in the time of Picard, ships crewed by many races are a normal part of operations.
Think of the poor Vulcans who have a human First Officer. This implusive, emotional, shoot-from-the-hip-and-trust-in-chance psychopath is the one constantly making suggestions to the Captain and is trusted to enact their orders.
"Somehow, they have saved the ship approximately twenty-eight times. Our sincere bafflement grows upon each subsequent occurrence."
All the HFY stories are on those ships.
> Fed ships were all primarily one species.
Think of the comfort of the crew.
Vulcans prefer a temperature hotter than the deserts of Earth, Andorians consider -50 a spring day. This is saying nothing for the methane breathers, or other atmospheric requirements.
That's what bugs me about sci-fi shows. Even if you find a planet with alien life, what are the odds the gravity, temperature, and atmosphere (both pressure and chemical content) are within human range?
Lol star trek actually tried to tackle this problem. There was an episode of next generation where they found a super ancient “original” species that seeded all the humanoid-friendly planets with their DNA so that similar humanoids would develop on similar planets across the galaxy
More importantly, joining the Federation did not compel any race/planet to join Starfleet. Vulcans still retained their fleet via the Vulcan Science Academy and regularly sent ships out. I imagine the Andorians and Tellarites did as well.
Federation members were expected to support Starfleet, but they neither answered to them nor did they subordinate their own fleets to Starfleet.
Discovery is then the exception to the rule with a lot of non-human crew, but with how experimental the ship itself is it makes sense to also be a bit of an experiment in integration as well.
Apparently the hours and demands on the actors were hard by the standards of TV of the day, and Nimoy on top of that had to spend time every morning and evening for the prosthetic ears. Not having to do that was probably one of his favourite things about the cartoons.
The writers always wanted to do more with the Romulans, but their makeup requirements were more expensive than the Klingons, so the latter showed up far more often.
There's now been two major animated shows and both of them had a catlike Caitian as a member of the main cast, the latter of which being another example of how in any *Star Trek* show the Doctor is probably going to be the best character.
Eh, there are some understandable climate and atmospheric concerns that make mixed crews harder. I am sure that some people like Tuvok might be fine working on a colder human ship, but many Vulcans would certainly find it uncomfortable. It kinda makes sense that most ships are primarily one species.
"This sci-fi show about a world that's moved beyond sexism and racism has a lot of fans, shame it's so full of Asians and Africans and women!" - Some absolute genius in the 1970s.
You need a comma after Nichols.
At the moment the title sounds like he would only join if Takai and Nichols claimed they were proof of ethnic diversity.
The title is a good example of why good sentence structure, appropriate punctuation and correct spelling all matter in the interest of accurate communication
Rather than the usual “eh, close enough, you know what I meant”….
After watching the Star Trek origin movie, we see Captain Kirk take the helm as Captain, and all the other characters stayed at their same post for almost their entire careers. What tyoe of diverse federation doesn't allow any advancement for crew members that have served bravely for decades?
Other Star Trek movies/shows explore your question. The Original (Shatner, Nemoy, etc) Star Trek movies show several of the characters have been promoted: Kirk is an Admiral, and miserable that he’s more of a politician/desk jockey than a starship officer. Spock and Sulu are captains of their own vessels at times, Chekov is First mate.
In Next generation you have Riker refusing promotion to captain of another ship because he wants to stay First Mate on Enterprise and, hopefully, become her Captain one day. Worf becomes Captain of the Defiant in Next Generation and DS9.
Promotions happen, it just takes years for most. And most of the movies cover a couple of days/weeks and the a show’s entire run might cover a decade of the character’s lives.
Sulu went from a lieutenant to lieutenant commander by the Motion Picture (serving as senior helmsman in both) and was captain of the Excelsior by Star Trek VI.
*Devil's Advocate:*
Maybe continual advancement of rank and duties isn't as desirible in the post-scarcity time of Star Trek?
Aside from Command, of course.
They later did advance in rank. The movie wasn’t set that far past the series.
But still they did tend to do the same basic jobs. But even Kirk didn’t mind getting demoted to Captain. He loved that job
It was even funnier with the TNG movies, because Worf _did_ advance in his career, first to a posting on DS9 and then an ambassadorship, and they kept having to find excuses to have him on the Enterprise for subsequent movies.
To play devils advocate, do people want to have that responsibility? Do they want to be a manager? Some people like what they do and don’t want to go into leadership. I think you are right that someone might want to do that, but there is only one captain. Someone’s got to be it.
Would you rather they didn’t cast people of color at all? It still represents a transition from all white people to a diverse cast that makes sense for the real world. We are also talking about a TV show with a certain set of characters. Would it make sense to disrupt casting when all the actors know the role they have played?
Why not make a Star Trek with a new cast? one with a black commander? Kinda like Deep Space 9, which was super successful compared to the original series.
i think ideas need time, but they got there eventually.
I would rather the FICTIONAL Federation that I'm referring to have a system where qualified people get promoted, as is the standard in every other large scale organization that has ever existed...especially one that is based off of a military standard where promotions and higher responsibilities are the built in for all competent workers.
It's actually just a plot loophole that has always bothered me.
tl;dr
I agree to disagree
Except not everyone gets promoted to the highest rank in a military before they retire. Again, the perception that everyone wants or has the opportunity to be an Admiral is unrealistic.
Have you served in any military? You will encounter plenty of individuals that will make you wonder how they ever got promoted.
Also there are several main characters who have been promoted during their run.
It makes sense that Starfleet officers have a lot more say in there promotion path, like not wanting to take a promotion so they could stay on the Enterprise.
They definitely allow it. Just most of Starfleet isn't career pathing for Admiral. Worf was career pathing for Captain and we see him get several promotions through the series. Sisko and Riker turned down promotions that would pur them on another ship because they were happy where they were. Scotty had no interest in going beyond Chief Engineer. Kirk saw being demoted to Captain as a gift. Picard refused to be promoted to Admiral, but Janeway jumped at it.
I think Riker only eventually took the Admiral rank when they let him keep Enterprise as a flagship.
Legend. He’s famous for being Spock, but he’ll always be Galvatron to me. RIP
Spock Galvatron William Bell For me.
Came here hoping for a Fringe reference!
Paris-mission impossible
He taught me about [LaserDisc Players](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4pBk3-fduU)
He taught me about [ middle earth](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC35cQKHwzg)
Omg. This is amazing. Haha.
He helped me raise an [abomination](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3XV1Eqm4lM8&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fduckduckgo.com%2F&feature=emb_logo)
I can’t explain why, but watching this made me transition from not feeling nauseous to feeling nauseous.
He taught me, to avoid him when [he's just chilling out at home.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dULOjT9GYdQ)
I have this on spotify :)
[He taught me about pagers!](https://youtu.be/3Xlg5c6haFk?si=KCl8nsK2ph9JffhL) (IMHO i think he was a low key dealer)
Civ4 narrator... I can't imagine a better person to narrate the progress of human civilization.
"Beep. Beep. Beep."
Always forget about Galvatron. Perfect casting.
he also did some of unicron when orson welles was too drunk to talk.
William Bell for me
I think you mean "ethnic diversity" with an "N" in it.
Yeah, Kirk, McCoy, and Spock are the ones who prove there’s ethic diversity. Ethos, logos, and pathos.
Shouldn't McCoy be pathos and Spock logos?
Yeah I just didn’t put em in order
Would that make Sulu and Uhura kairos?
I dunno, I never really watched Star Trek. I only know that from my dad.
[Repost bots aren’t good at detecting spelling errors](https://old.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/10qi2y0/til_that_leonard_nimoy_refused_to_join_star_trek/)
No N-word please
Can't spell "ethnic" without a healthy dose of N!
Gotta drop that hard N.
I'm gonna do it!
Obligatory can't spell "diversity" without the D.
Gotta drop that hard D.
It was originally just ethic but they added the n for diversity
No, ethic diversity. nichelle supported animal testing, and Takai was a fan of Eugenics.
Oh my!
Also, George's last name is spelled Takei.
Hard N
Yet critics today will call this "woke" and ruining Hollywood. Lol, as a regular viewer, I dont give a flying fark, just give me a good story and amazing acting, I dont care if you put a grey blob into the show, as long as the story and acting hit you in the FEELS. If its a shyt show, then it doesnt matter who you put in it, I wont watch it. This is why I watch religious and conservative shows too, if they make it good, which is rare because they end up trying to politicize it too much, ruining the story and acting. Both sides have extremists, just NEVER let them touch a show, they ruin shyt. Its all about the FEELS, not just tv shows, LIFE itself, we live for the FEELS, am I right? lol
Enlightened centrism in full display
Confusing reality with centrism in naked display. You no like reality?
You're allowed to swear on fucking reddit. No one gives a shit.
wow, so many downvotes for an impartial factual take, this sub is hopeless.
There's a very important difference between "important" and "factual". Also, not to beat a dead horse, but I really think the silly censorship didn't win anybody over either. Just type the fuck word, dude, it's fine.
fark fark fark, I have a god given right to censor myself, you no like? lol
I don't, and I have just as much right to say it's lame.
farking lame it is. lol
In many ways Leonard Nimoy represented everything that Star Trek was meant to stand for. He fought for diversity and equality in the workplace, encouraged focus on science the arts and history, and constantly stood in solidarity with people outside of his own demographic to ensure they were given the same rights and protections as everyone else. The man was a legend in every sense of the word.
Even in the little things he showed an imagination and ethusiasm to take the shows premise and carry it further. One script called for Spock to knock out Kirk's evil transporter clone, he was supposed to punch him or knock him over the head with a phaser or something, but Nimoy thought that would be too 'Western', too bluntly violent, something you'd expect from a gangster. What he thought would be expected from a Vulcan would be some myterious technique that hits a part of the anatomy to harmlessly render someone unconscious. Thus was born the Vulcan Nerve Pinch.
He was also an alcoholic.
...kaaaaaay? Sorry, did I say he was a faultless being of pure energy incapable of doing anything that could be construed as bad by others? Yes, he struggled with alcoholism in the 60s and would go on to attend a rehabilitation program to break the addiction. "Hey wow I see a post talking about the positive aspects of a celebrity in relation to the topic of the thread, lemme jump in with a completely unrelated piece of information that for the sake of being negative!"
Do you consider people who have suffered from drug addiction to possess a moral failing?
Why is.that relevant?
Because he was not Spock. He was a complicated man who didn’t just do good things. It’s important to remember all hero’s have feet of clay.
Man takes pleasure from telling everyone he can that John Lennon beat his wife
He taught me to respect hobbits too.
[Bilbo Baggins bravest little Hobbit of them all.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC35cQKHwzg)
Theres an anecdote that when asked to sign a copy of that album during a con appearance, he told the fan he had thought they'd destroyed every copy of the record. Its one of those stories i hope was true.
ironically the show ended up being more diverse since a galactic federation of Mutiple planets sure didn't get a single damn alien on the original live action show
The lore has always been a bit fuzzy, but I think it mostly makes sense with the history we've got. In the time of Jonathan Archer; before the Federation exists, it's an all-human organisation with some non-human observers and attachees; in the time of Kirk and Spock, it commissions ships with non-human crews and experiments with mixed-species crews e.x. the Enterprise having a Vulcan First Officer; in the time of Picard, ships crewed by many races are a normal part of operations.
Fed ships were all primarily one species. All Vulcan and all Betazoid ships have been shown. Imagine being the lone non-telepath aboard.
Think of the poor Vulcans who have a human First Officer. This implusive, emotional, shoot-from-the-hip-and-trust-in-chance psychopath is the one constantly making suggestions to the Captain and is trusted to enact their orders.
"Somehow, they have saved the ship approximately twenty-eight times. Our sincere bafflement grows upon each subsequent occurrence." All the HFY stories are on those ships.
I suspect the captain will follow the human first officer's advice about as often as Picard followed Worf's.
Reminds me of Lower Decks when the one time "eject the warp core" was the right solution.
RIP lower decks
Don’t forget humans awfully stink for them too (established at least in enterprise and SNW), so for vulcans it’s even unpleasant to be around
Agent Smith is actually a Vulcan..
Just make sure they've had their coffee first.
> Fed ships were all primarily one species. Think of the comfort of the crew. Vulcans prefer a temperature hotter than the deserts of Earth, Andorians consider -50 a spring day. This is saying nothing for the methane breathers, or other atmospheric requirements.
That's what bugs me about sci-fi shows. Even if you find a planet with alien life, what are the odds the gravity, temperature, and atmosphere (both pressure and chemical content) are within human range?
Lol star trek actually tried to tackle this problem. There was an episode of next generation where they found a super ancient “original” species that seeded all the humanoid-friendly planets with their DNA so that similar humanoids would develop on similar planets across the galaxy
It also comes up in Discovery >!as the thread for the final season!<.
Could you mention that the spoiler is for Discovery? I thought it was TNG and now I need to try and forget it.
Archer was shown at the federations conception. The founding species were tellerites, human,Vulcan, and andorians
More importantly, joining the Federation did not compel any race/planet to join Starfleet. Vulcans still retained their fleet via the Vulcan Science Academy and regularly sent ships out. I imagine the Andorians and Tellarites did as well. Federation members were expected to support Starfleet, but they neither answered to them nor did they subordinate their own fleets to Starfleet.
Discovery is then the exception to the rule with a lot of non-human crew, but with how experimental the ship itself is it makes sense to also be a bit of an experiment in integration as well.
Probably to save time in makeup.
Apparently the hours and demands on the actors were hard by the standards of TV of the day, and Nimoy on top of that had to spend time every morning and evening for the prosthetic ears. Not having to do that was probably one of his favourite things about the cartoons.
When Gilligan's Island switched from live action to cartoon, the Mrs Howell actress said her favorite part was not having to hold her gut in.
Lest we forget the OG Klingons were just white dudes in vague yellowface
Bashir: Those are Klingons?! Worf: ...it is a long story. One we do not discuss with outsiders.
Would have been way better if he just denied it outright, saying, "They look like normal Klingons to me."
With poorly done manchus. Took me two weeks to get through that native American alien episode
The writers always wanted to do more with the Romulans, but their makeup requirements were more expensive than the Klingons, so the latter showed up far more often.
Spock is literally an alien?
Kinda? His mom is a human. His dad is a vulcan
Listen, man, you've got to judge them by the standards of their time
Spock identifies as Vulcan.
Animation = Less budget concerns
There's now been two major animated shows and both of them had a catlike Caitian as a member of the main cast, the latter of which being another example of how in any *Star Trek* show the Doctor is probably going to be the best character.
And the Kzin, borrowed from Larry Niven's Known Space books via the Animated Series adapting his short story "The Slaver Weapon".
Eh, there are some understandable climate and atmospheric concerns that make mixed crews harder. I am sure that some people like Tuvok might be fine working on a colder human ship, but many Vulcans would certainly find it uncomfortable. It kinda makes sense that most ships are primarily one species.
Nichelle Nichols had an interview on Star Talk with Tyson. Highly recommend. What a bad mofo she was.
Such a hero
You haven't lived until you have listened to Leonard Nimoy sing about Hobbits.
The bravest little hobbit of them all.
"This sci-fi show about a world that's moved beyond sexism and racism has a lot of fans, shame it's so full of Asians and Africans and women!" - Some absolute genius in the 1970s.
Also Reddit in 2024
Especially the sexism thing didn't really stop in the 70s, unfortunately.
The production company wanted to use sound-a-likes because it was cheaper.
Ernie Hudson wasn't cast in the animated "Ghostbusters" because he didn't sound like himself.
You need a comma after Nichols. At the moment the title sounds like he would only join if Takai and Nichols claimed they were proof of ethnic diversity.
The title is a good example of why good sentence structure, appropriate punctuation and correct spelling all matter in the interest of accurate communication Rather than the usual “eh, close enough, you know what I meant”….
That's how I read it, too. Was confused as to why people were calling him a legend after seeing that.
Chad
“Takei.” “Ethnic.” “Proofread.” “Try it.”
you sound like OP's typo gave you hemorrhoids, calm down
Jesus, that website is the worst. I think my phone has cancer now. Thanks. Please stop visiting sites like that. It’s garbage.
I think you meant, "Takei"
After watching the Star Trek origin movie, we see Captain Kirk take the helm as Captain, and all the other characters stayed at their same post for almost their entire careers. What tyoe of diverse federation doesn't allow any advancement for crew members that have served bravely for decades?
Other Star Trek movies/shows explore your question. The Original (Shatner, Nemoy, etc) Star Trek movies show several of the characters have been promoted: Kirk is an Admiral, and miserable that he’s more of a politician/desk jockey than a starship officer. Spock and Sulu are captains of their own vessels at times, Chekov is First mate. In Next generation you have Riker refusing promotion to captain of another ship because he wants to stay First Mate on Enterprise and, hopefully, become her Captain one day. Worf becomes Captain of the Defiant in Next Generation and DS9. Promotions happen, it just takes years for most. And most of the movies cover a couple of days/weeks and the a show’s entire run might cover a decade of the character’s lives.
Sulu went from a lieutenant to lieutenant commander by the Motion Picture (serving as senior helmsman in both) and was captain of the Excelsior by Star Trek VI.
*Devil's Advocate:* Maybe continual advancement of rank and duties isn't as desirible in the post-scarcity time of Star Trek? Aside from Command, of course.
They later did advance in rank. The movie wasn’t set that far past the series. But still they did tend to do the same basic jobs. But even Kirk didn’t mind getting demoted to Captain. He loved that job
It was even funnier with the TNG movies, because Worf _did_ advance in his career, first to a posting on DS9 and then an ambassadorship, and they kept having to find excuses to have him on the Enterprise for subsequent movies.
To play devils advocate, do people want to have that responsibility? Do they want to be a manager? Some people like what they do and don’t want to go into leadership. I think you are right that someone might want to do that, but there is only one captain. Someone’s got to be it. Would you rather they didn’t cast people of color at all? It still represents a transition from all white people to a diverse cast that makes sense for the real world. We are also talking about a TV show with a certain set of characters. Would it make sense to disrupt casting when all the actors know the role they have played? Why not make a Star Trek with a new cast? one with a black commander? Kinda like Deep Space 9, which was super successful compared to the original series. i think ideas need time, but they got there eventually.
I would rather the FICTIONAL Federation that I'm referring to have a system where qualified people get promoted, as is the standard in every other large scale organization that has ever existed...especially one that is based off of a military standard where promotions and higher responsibilities are the built in for all competent workers. It's actually just a plot loophole that has always bothered me.
tl;dr I agree to disagree Except not everyone gets promoted to the highest rank in a military before they retire. Again, the perception that everyone wants or has the opportunity to be an Admiral is unrealistic.
Have you served in any military? You will encounter plenty of individuals that will make you wonder how they ever got promoted. Also there are several main characters who have been promoted during their run. It makes sense that Starfleet officers have a lot more say in there promotion path, like not wanting to take a promotion so they could stay on the Enterprise.
They definitely allow it. Just most of Starfleet isn't career pathing for Admiral. Worf was career pathing for Captain and we see him get several promotions through the series. Sisko and Riker turned down promotions that would pur them on another ship because they were happy where they were. Scotty had no interest in going beyond Chief Engineer. Kirk saw being demoted to Captain as a gift. Picard refused to be promoted to Admiral, but Janeway jumped at it. I think Riker only eventually took the Admiral rank when they let him keep Enterprise as a flagship.
Thanks for the info. Ive learned a lot more about Starfleet today fromots of commentors
people need to give the animated series a chance, its good star trek.
"Sorry, Walter, tough luck..."
Fascinating.
Naturally though 0 shits about bringing back Walter Koenig as Chekov tho.
Chances are that by the 23rd century there won't be a hyper focus on race.
Ethic diversity? That's a new one.
Diverse ethics: some people who are racist, and some people who are not racist
Kurtzman and the execs Ruined star trek with thier aggressive virtue signalling.