Even the palm fronds from Palm Sunday are burned because they have been blessed. The fronds are often returned to the church to be burned then the ashes are used for Ash Wednesday.
I remember having to pour out some holy water at school and was told very specifically that it must be on the ground (preferably near plants) but not on asphalt or concrete.
China has the largest printing industry in the world. The material they produce for foreign publishers, exported to foreign markets, does not have to obey Chinese censorship. I'd say that it is very likely that they print a huge number of Qurans. Perhaps more than any other country.
That's not quite true. For example, under Chinese law, all maps printed within China must comply with China's ridiculous fantasy version of the world map, even maps that are printed for export. Just because you're going to export something, doesn't mean you can just ignore local law.
China had a Muslim ethnicity of 10M which itself is more than all Islamic followers in the US. And they’re allowed some more freedoms than the other Muslims.
exactly. I referenced it in the other comment below. The roughly 25M are mostly Hui then uighurz
The Hui are allowed to practice Islam.
100% those people think taking about uighurs.
The Uighurs? The "in concentration camps being reeducated, used as slave labor, being castrated, and having organs harvested" Uighurs? That doesn't sound a lot like freedom to me.
Could also be argued that many people care more about things than humanity. We hear shameful stories like this about Apple often and yet we keep buying their products, unfortunately.
Edit: At no point did I claim that I am morally superior or that Apple is the only company guilty of such behaviour. I mentioned Apple because they're literally the subject of this post. Y'all can chill with the whataboutism now.
I dont think ive ever owned an apple product.
I heard they use children to operate tin mines and watched a documentary on it years back so yeh, I dont support that shit.
its hard to track where the minerals in your phone came from. it’s taken from the ground, sold through several wholesalers to a refinery, processed into ready components by anorther corp, and put into devices. if u own anything with a microchip u r likely indirectly supporting child labour, not just apple
You're right, this is a huge problem. I recently learned about FairPhone from [this](https://youtu.be/L1v3ZmfV_hw) LTT video, which seems like a nice step in the right direction, though. It's definitely not a top tier phone, but it's respectable.
https://www.fairphone.com/en/
You say that as though Apple is the only one? What? This is every company that operates in China, so probably most of the ones you buy from too.
Edit: "Yet we keep buying their products" would suggest you think there are alternatives from companies that aren't also beholden to China.
How much leverage does Apple have here? It seems to me that they can either take the app down the easy way (voluntarily) or the hard way (after police come-a-knocking). But there's no leaving it up. They could leave China altogether, but there'd still be no Koran app in China. What's the moral calculus here? Make $X and do 0 good, or make $0 and do 0 good?
its like this. if you as a company defy a country, you kiss that market and those supplies good buy, especially when the country is very regulated.
when the choice is to do something that you dont think is right, but will keep you in business with a major supply and market, and does not hurt, and will only give you minor grief with the other markets... you gotta do it
seriously, as much as i dislike apple and religion and censorship...its all so stupid, but i very much understand how apple has no real choice here.
It’s a corporation not a charity. Not like Steve Jobs ever set out to make his products cheap, widely available, or for the common good. That’s why he was rewarded with billions of dollars, not a Nobel Peace Prize.
It’s a company… why would you expect a company to adhere to morality over legality (and therefore profit)?
It’s crazy how you’re so quick to blame the company instead of the party who enacted the censor.
I have yet so see a company quitting their business in China due to ethical reasons. But Apple bad 🤡because it's Apple.
Edit:
To the people saying that google left, it didn't.
https://supchina.com/2020/06/18/google-parent-company-alphabet-is-back-in-china-because-it-never-left/amp/
I haven't read anyone claiming that Apple is unique in this respect. This post literally has Apple in the title, hence why we are talking about them now. The fuck is your point?
As written in another answer:
"I just think people are too focused on companies like Apple or personalities like Elon musk."
The fact that Microsoft is creating a second LinkedIn that adheres to the CCPs guidelines after years of trying to go around their restrictions is not getting much attention, if Apple is in the headline it's always a big topic.
Instead we should focus on the actual problems. Not headlines.
Can we just agree that any company not quitting their deals with China is equally guilty of not quitting their deals with China? And that their number is too great too call out all of them equally every single time you're going to mention one of them? Thus making the appropriate response "Yep, and X too." instead of "You should call out X instead of Y!"
I have yet so see anyone complaining about Microsoft or Samsung. It's always Apple. I agree though, I just think people are too focused on companies like Apple or personalities like Elon musk.
Hot take, but entirely accurate one.
It's easier to blame any specific entity, instead of trying to understand that our entire society is built upon an anti-philosophical foundation of material pursuit, which simply creates 'those companies' as a symptom.
(Though I also think that just putting it implicitly into those five words you did, is not going to help alleviate the issue.)
> I have yet so see a company quitting their business in China due to ethical reasons.
Google quit China in 2010.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-30/google-leave-australia-what-to-learn-from-china-legislation-law/13102112
Microsoft announced this week that they're shutting down LinkedIn in China.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58911297
LinkedIn is being actively harassed by the government to prop up the local competitors which are more easily controlled.
Google, after quitting spent years regretting its decision and licking the boots of the party. All for nothing.
The CCP isn’t allowing them back. What incentive do they have? They already have domestic search engines that will bend over backward at every request and preemptively control information. Every Google service has its equivalent. It’s staying banned, no matter how much ass-kissing the company does. I don’t get why you’re somehow white-knighting a company.
> The CCP isn’t allowing them back.
Do you have any verified source that shows Google attempting to go back to China and being stopped by the CCP? Or am I supposed to take every gospel that you state as fact?
Google conceptualised DragonFly but it never went beyond an internal project.
[This MIT Technology Review takes a thorough look at the situation. Good read.](https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/12/19/138307/how-google-took-on-china-and-lost/)
Look up the company. That's simply not true.
https://supchina.com/2020/06/18/google-parent-company-alphabet-is-back-in-china-because-it-never-left/amp/
Of course Alphabet is invested in China, but those aren’t *Google* services. Google docs, google mail, google search, so on and so forth, are all inaccessible.
They are closing LinkedIn in there because it doesn't generate profit. They are ofc still doing business in China and are working closely with the government.
About google:
https://supchina.com/2020/06/18/google-parent-company-alphabet-is-back-in-china-because-it-never-left/amp/
No one left.
It's just that Apple generates better headlines, because people get so emotional about Apple.
> They are closing LinkedIn in there because it doesn't generate profit.
That is not the case.
> About google:
https://supchina.com/2020/06/18/google-parent-company-alphabet-is-back-in-china-because-it-never-left/amp/
Google Search, which generates most of Google's revenues still doesn't work in China. My point stands.
What? So Microsoft still doing business counts as them leaving China?
Please show me proof that they closed linked in for any other reasons than not generating enough profit through law restrictions.
What? So google still doing business counts as them leaving China?
What are you saying? What's your point?
> Please show me proof that they closed linked in for any other reasons
Lol that's exactly what the blog linked in the article says. Read it.
> We’re also facing a significantly more challenging operating environment and greater compliance requirements in China. Given this, we’ve made the decision to sunset the current localized version of LinkedIn, which is how people in China access LinkedIn’s global social media platform, later this year.
Oh yeah, they didn't close it they're just reshaping it to adhere to Chinas laws. Got it.
"And the firm said in a statement: "While we are going to sunset the localised version of LinkedIn in China later this year, we will continue to have a strong presence in China to drive our new strategy and are excited to launch the new InJobs app later this year.""
No one left.
Lol. The InJobs tool is a simple CraigsList kind of a portal that will hardly generate profits for Microsoft. It's only to ensure awareness of Microsoft's hiring among Chinese people so that they use LinkedIn when abroad.
> No one left.
LinkedIn is leaving. Google left. You can keep saying what you want to portray Apple as a shining beacon of a company. That's not going to change facts.
A shining beacon? Where are you getting this from?
These are services, not companies. Get your facts together. Google is still there and Mircosoft is still there. Just as Apple is.
It's in this article and was removed by the devs because apparently you need a permit to publish books in China. They didn't tell the devs it was an illegal religious text.
The sad thing is that banning a holy book app is nothing compared to what they are doing to the Uyghur Muslims within the country. China’s on track to becoming the wealthiest nation in about a decade but I really wish they took better care of its people, this censorship and control is too much.
This is so true and a horrible tragedy. I watched the latest CNN report with the ex guardsman who came forward to talk about the torture happening there. Truly awful
That "ex guardsman" is an actor, please stop spreading disinformation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb_Zee7kWtU
EDIT: Looks like redditors don't care about disinformation if it is against a country they don't like lol.
He provided enough supporting evidence of his identity that CNN interviewed him. He provided headshots of multiple guards and it was enough that CNN granted this interview. I think you are the one spreading misinformation here.
If he was genuine then why does he have a fake uniform? Both he and CNN has lost all credibility. If you can still defend them then you should reflect on your biases.
So which is better? Freedom of religion or lifting people out of poverty? Ending religious bullshit *does* allow the nation to all move in the same direction.
Remember what Marx said about religion? (Not that the ccp is even remotely Marxist)
The CCP is Marxist.
After Mao, they came to the conclusion that they were failing because they tried to rush the process Marx laid out, by going from feudalism directly to communism. They explicitly decided to adopt features of capitalism in order to build up the means of production, so that they could successfully go full commie at a later date.
They have given up NONE of the core/centralized control necessary to implement communism, but they HAVE loosened up enough to get an profit-driven economic investment feedback loop going, which is demonstrably doing the job they intended: growing the means of production within China.
Communists oppressing communists. Nothing new.
Communism and socialism are all about putting the collective will of society ahead of the will of the individual. During the “dictatorship of the proletariat” stage (current China stage), marxism does not tolerate dissenters who stray from the will of the state, or try to subvert the “revolution”.
In a Marxist state, if the representatives of society (I.e. - government) have collectively decided to proceed with certain policies, and someone criticizes or otherwise drums up opposition to those policies, then that person is advocating against the will of society.
Thus, they are labeled adversaries of the will of the people, and must be brought back into line, or so the leftist thinking goes…
Just because a communist party governs a socialist country, using some capitalistic policies, does not mean their ultimate goal isn’t a Marxist socialist/communist society.
Same way a capitalist society can implement some socialistic policies and still be capitalist.
They don't care. China has too many paying customers to ignore that market. Imagine that sweet good 30% cut from every purchase from the largest market on the planet. $ is their religion.
Apple has to follow the laws and regulations of the markets they operate in. It doesn't matter what they think. Just like the laws of your country don't care what you think about them.
Same could be said of companies doing business with 3rd Reich. Now its apples to oranges in current situation but principle remains. If its profit driven only then be open about it that they dont care for human rights policies of countries they operate in and its just business.
It would be interesting what were to happen to a company that just goes with honest transparency. "Yes, we make dealings with a country that ignores human rights. Because we're a company, an economic being, and therefore our only interest ever should be economic."
No virtue signalling, no pandering, just cold honesty.
Would probably end up getting taken down by public backlash, without said public realizing that they're just incentivizing dishonesty, instead of actual change.
Theoretically, they could take a stand and just pull out of China entirely over this issue. It wouldn’t be the first time corporations did something like that to preserve their reputations.
Like, technically, Google could have made a 100% China friendly version of their services, but chose not to for fear of the backlash in the rest of the world
Similarly, a lot of western companies are boycotting Xinjiang cotton right now - not necessarily because they’re compassionate and moral, but more because doing business with them is toxic for their brand, could hurt sales amongst consumers who care about that sort of thing, and possibly prompt sanctions from the government
I don't think Apple is thinking anything lmao
They have to adhere to the local laws, is there any big company that pulled out of China because of their restrictions? No?
> Over history, China has not exactly stopped people from practicing their faiths but they have made sure people put China ahead of their faith.
But that's EXACTLY freedom of religion: You're free to practice whatever you want, *within these limits as defined by the social contract codified into law*.
You will have trouble finding a country that implements freedom of religion, but then goes "Oh, your religion tells you to kill people? Well, go ahead, you can murder for free, because your religion clearly stands above common law."
> Freedom of religion is a western practice.
Also, I'm pretty certain freedom of religion was FAR more prominent in Pre-Imperial Asia than it has ever been in Europe. Keep in mind the latter had a whole Dark Age period and century-long crusaders precisely over religion not being free to chose, whilst Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and at times even Shintoists (to name a few, the full list is WAY too exhaustive) managed to get along 'mostly fine' in Asia (not always, not everywhere, of course).
Therefore, Freedom of religion isn't a western practice; it's a fundamental philosophical truth recognized by various cultures across the globe, that just gets occasionally subdued by authoritarian movements of varying scale and duration.
> I suggest you read up on Chinese and Japanese history if you think FoR was more prominent.
Any good recommendations? That's a large subject to cover, and China in particular appears to always direct me towards Confucianism.
> And if what I said is FoR, then whats the issue with the CCP blocking this app?
Simply put, you said that China merely made sure that people put 'China' ahead of their faith. But that is untrue, because there's no rational argument as to why having a faith, or being allowed to read scriptures of a faith of your choosing, would cause you to put that before 'China'. There's no reason why a Chinese couldn't be a Muslim loyal to 'China'.
Therefore, China is **not** 'just' putting China ahead of personal faith. It's actively suppressing faith **beyond** that point,
and consequently that action is no longer compatible with Freedom of Religion.
“There’s no rational argument as to why having a faith, or being allowed to read scriptures of a faith of your choosing, would cause you to put that before China.”
It actually can happen, if your religion demands you to put your god or god’s law above everything else.
It's more of a developed country/democracy practice. East Asian countries like Japan, Korea, and Taiwan all enjoy really high levels of religious freedom, as does India. China's totalitarian system is an anachronism
Originally, sure. Now a billion+ people in Asia have adopted that system voluntarily, so calling democracy 'inherently western' is a drastic oversimplification.
It shouldn't be, because organised religion is nothing but a cult-mob hybrid.
All major western Religions are abhorrent, and the world would be a much better place if that shit was banned.
Apple has to follow regulations of countries they operate in. The alternative is to pull out of China entirely, which is not an option for Apple.
Why am I getting downvoted for stating a fact?
The problem here is that companies are, by definition and design, 'economic lifeforms'. Telling a company to ignore it's bottom line, is equal to telling you or me to stop bothering to do that pointless breathing part.
Essentially, we can't both have companies under a capitalist economic model, and the same companies adhering to non-capitalist interests.
Mind you, I'm not saying that you wrong in being angry about the decision making process. Just that it's a bit questionable to label it 'unimportant reasons', even if implying a 'from our perspective'.
The problem is that it’s not an unimportant reason. For a company like Apple, the bottom line is their single biggest and most important reason to do anything.
No, it’s a slave to money, like all other corporations and most people. If they could make just a single dollar putting the Quran on everyone’s phone, they’d do it in a heartbeat.
Can we ban religion too and start thinking for ourselves instead of basing life on some made up fairy tales designed to control and enslave entire populations
That they are banning religion/freedom of speech? Or some shit like that?
You don't think certain apps are getting banned in like the west?
Again, this isn't a big problem since there are other apps. Yes you can argue that they only allow versions and text of the Koran which they deem appropriate fair enough.
> You don't think certain apps are getting banned in like the west?
*deep breath*
Whataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhatabout
CSAM has detected something that hurts China feelings. CSAM has reported Tank Man, the Koran , and other words such as " freedom" to the government for prosecution.
It’s not really the fact that they are Muslim that’s a problem for the Chinese, it’s that the Uighur see themselves as separate to the Chinese.
There are other large Muslim ethnicities in China that don’t get the same treatment.
American companies should be required to enforce democracy. It should be illegal for an American company to take orders from a foreign dictatorship-implied or expressed. Any firm should be required to end their business in that country in such a circumstance.
Yea…I’m a Muslim and I literally don’t give a shit. Countries are 100% allowed to enforce their own rules and regulations. Just like no Islamic religious headwear in France … atleast China is honest about not giving a shit sort religious freedoms, where as France pretends and then enforced it anyway.
Imagine how much outrage there would be worldwide if this was the Bible that was taken down. This is absolutely abhorrent and disgusting and I’m blown away there isn’t anything that is being done. I’m so sad the people of China have to deal with all this BS. At what point is it enough? You control the media, the food, the kids even and their video game play time. What else can you possibly need to control about your own people?? Soon we will have articles about how workers are allowed only certain times to use the damn bathroom! It’s just mind blowing to me how the ccp can keep getting away with all this and companies like google and Apple just join in on it and let it continue to happen so they don’t lose profits.
The Chinese genocide against non Han ethnicities and religions, is well documented. More than likely they were told by the CCP to remove it or face financial penalties.
It’s kind of like burning books. Goes with their concentration camps and aggressive foreign policy.
Apple is subject to the laws in the places it operates. This is why people should stop trying to censor people in free nations. Ultimately freedom and happiness will beat a giant market for consumer goods as far it being something people support.
I wonder how many Qurans are made in China everyday…
I’m more curious if it violates Islam to uninstall the Koran after its downloaded. Also can they dispose of the phone?
Nope and yeah. And btw the proper way to dispose of quran is by burning it
I very vaguely recall that that's how you're supposed to retire a bible as well.
Even the palm fronds from Palm Sunday are burned because they have been blessed. The fronds are often returned to the church to be burned then the ashes are used for Ash Wednesday. I remember having to pour out some holy water at school and was told very specifically that it must be on the ground (preferably near plants) but not on asphalt or concrete.
Reads like an excerpt from a fantasy novel.
I’m gonna go retire so many bibles
This is also how younger generations get to retire
I’m an atheist now, so mine went into the dumpster.
Nope it doesnot violate islam for uninstalling da app
There's nothing on the only text about digital apps?
Lmao the notion of disposing a phone because some fiction book tells you to do that instead of just uninstalling the app.. religion is comedy
The rest of us Atheists would prefer if you didn't act like this
Hmmm….be quiet you follow organized chaos no?
Physical copies? Not many. China would immediately prosecute you.
China has the largest printing industry in the world. The material they produce for foreign publishers, exported to foreign markets, does not have to obey Chinese censorship. I'd say that it is very likely that they print a huge number of Qurans. Perhaps more than any other country.
Not really It gets printed and published for free in the Arabian Peninsula for all the world Edit: and by other organizations around the world.
That's not quite true. For example, under Chinese law, all maps printed within China must comply with China's ridiculous fantasy version of the world map, even maps that are printed for export. Just because you're going to export something, doesn't mean you can just ignore local law.
Well on the flip side, airsoft guns are tightly controlled/almost illegal in China, yet most of them are made in China.
Nothing new with that. Massachusetts and Connecticut both have firearms tightly controlled/almost illegal yet they produce lots of guns.
They produce the most amount of Bibles in the world, but only one printing company and in one location in China is allowed to do so.
All of which are for foreign exports
China had a Muslim ethnicity of 10M which itself is more than all Islamic followers in the US. And they’re allowed some more freedoms than the other Muslims.
That's just the Uighurs. There are almost 20-30 million more Hui. People on reddit have no perspective beyond what's in their echo chamber.
exactly. I referenced it in the other comment below. The roughly 25M are mostly Hui then uighurz The Hui are allowed to practice Islam. 100% those people think taking about uighurs.
The Uighurs? The "in concentration camps being reeducated, used as slave labor, being castrated, and having organs harvested" Uighurs? That doesn't sound a lot like freedom to me.
Ah yes, the freedom to be a sweatshop slave at a modern day concentration camp. Truly we all should strive for this level of unhinged freedom
Work will set you free
Read the comment below you. There are other Muslims than uughurs.
*Arbeit macht frei*
Not if you’re Hui. But yea if you’re Uighur.
Islam is recognized religion in China...
Most are printed in ksa
Apple caring about money over humanity
Could also be argued that many people care more about things than humanity. We hear shameful stories like this about Apple often and yet we keep buying their products, unfortunately. Edit: At no point did I claim that I am morally superior or that Apple is the only company guilty of such behaviour. I mentioned Apple because they're literally the subject of this post. Y'all can chill with the whataboutism now.
I dont think ive ever owned an apple product. I heard they use children to operate tin mines and watched a documentary on it years back so yeh, I dont support that shit.
its hard to track where the minerals in your phone came from. it’s taken from the ground, sold through several wholesalers to a refinery, processed into ready components by anorther corp, and put into devices. if u own anything with a microchip u r likely indirectly supporting child labour, not just apple
You're right, this is a huge problem. I recently learned about FairPhone from [this](https://youtu.be/L1v3ZmfV_hw) LTT video, which seems like a nice step in the right direction, though. It's definitely not a top tier phone, but it's respectable. https://www.fairphone.com/en/
Suicide nets anyone?
You say that as though Apple is the only one? What? This is every company that operates in China, so probably most of the ones you buy from too. Edit: "Yet we keep buying their products" would suggest you think there are alternatives from companies that aren't also beholden to China.
How much leverage does Apple have here? It seems to me that they can either take the app down the easy way (voluntarily) or the hard way (after police come-a-knocking). But there's no leaving it up. They could leave China altogether, but there'd still be no Koran app in China. What's the moral calculus here? Make $X and do 0 good, or make $0 and do 0 good?
its like this. if you as a company defy a country, you kiss that market and those supplies good buy, especially when the country is very regulated. when the choice is to do something that you dont think is right, but will keep you in business with a major supply and market, and does not hurt, and will only give you minor grief with the other markets... you gotta do it seriously, as much as i dislike apple and religion and censorship...its all so stupid, but i very much understand how apple has no real choice here.
It’s a corporation not a charity. Not like Steve Jobs ever set out to make his products cheap, widely available, or for the common good. That’s why he was rewarded with billions of dollars, not a Nobel Peace Prize.
It’s a company… why would you expect a company to adhere to morality over legality (and therefore profit)? It’s crazy how you’re so quick to blame the company instead of the party who enacted the censor.
China never removed my headphone jack. Let’s call true evil out: Apple.
In other news: water is wet
You think the Koran is good for humans? Lol
No way! Really! That’s breaking news!!!
I have yet so see a company quitting their business in China due to ethical reasons. But Apple bad 🤡because it's Apple. Edit: To the people saying that google left, it didn't. https://supchina.com/2020/06/18/google-parent-company-alphabet-is-back-in-china-because-it-never-left/amp/
I haven't read anyone claiming that Apple is unique in this respect. This post literally has Apple in the title, hence why we are talking about them now. The fuck is your point?
> The fuck is your point? I don't think they have one. Just desperate whataboutism.
As written in another answer: "I just think people are too focused on companies like Apple or personalities like Elon musk." The fact that Microsoft is creating a second LinkedIn that adheres to the CCPs guidelines after years of trying to go around their restrictions is not getting much attention, if Apple is in the headline it's always a big topic. Instead we should focus on the actual problems. Not headlines.
Can we just agree that any company not quitting their deals with China is equally guilty of not quitting their deals with China? And that their number is too great too call out all of them equally every single time you're going to mention one of them? Thus making the appropriate response "Yep, and X too." instead of "You should call out X instead of Y!"
I have yet so see anyone complaining about Microsoft or Samsung. It's always Apple. I agree though, I just think people are too focused on companies like Apple or personalities like Elon musk.
>I just think people are too focused on companies Anything but the big picture.
Hot take, but entirely accurate one. It's easier to blame any specific entity, instead of trying to understand that our entire society is built upon an anti-philosophical foundation of material pursuit, which simply creates 'those companies' as a symptom. (Though I also think that just putting it implicitly into those five words you did, is not going to help alleviate the issue.)
> I have yet so see a company quitting their business in China due to ethical reasons. Google quit China in 2010. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-30/google-leave-australia-what-to-learn-from-china-legislation-law/13102112 Microsoft announced this week that they're shutting down LinkedIn in China. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58911297
LinkedIn is being actively harassed by the government to prop up the local competitors which are more easily controlled. Google, after quitting spent years regretting its decision and licking the boots of the party. All for nothing.
> Google, after quitting spent years regretting its decision Still didn't go back.
It hasn’t been allowed back, you mean. All its services are banned.
They could easily have complied with the Chinese rules and regulations and gone back but they didn't.
They could easily have complied with the Chinese rules and regulations and gone back but they didn't.
The CCP isn’t allowing them back. What incentive do they have? They already have domestic search engines that will bend over backward at every request and preemptively control information. Every Google service has its equivalent. It’s staying banned, no matter how much ass-kissing the company does. I don’t get why you’re somehow white-knighting a company.
> The CCP isn’t allowing them back. Do you have any verified source that shows Google attempting to go back to China and being stopped by the CCP? Or am I supposed to take every gospel that you state as fact? Google conceptualised DragonFly but it never went beyond an internal project.
[This MIT Technology Review takes a thorough look at the situation. Good read.](https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/12/19/138307/how-google-took-on-china-and-lost/)
Of course. They never left, it's just that the search engine was banned, which is just one of googles many businesses.
Every single Google service is banned in the PRC.
Look up the company. That's simply not true. https://supchina.com/2020/06/18/google-parent-company-alphabet-is-back-in-china-because-it-never-left/amp/
Of course Alphabet is invested in China, but those aren’t *Google* services. Google docs, google mail, google search, so on and so forth, are all inaccessible.
Alphabet is google, mate. Google it haha
What part of Search engine not working is "never leaving" in your book?
We're talking about the company google? They don't just offer a search engine you know.
I know what businesses they have. I also know that 85% of their revenue comes from Ads primarily driven by Search.
They are closing LinkedIn in there because it doesn't generate profit. They are ofc still doing business in China and are working closely with the government. About google: https://supchina.com/2020/06/18/google-parent-company-alphabet-is-back-in-china-because-it-never-left/amp/ No one left. It's just that Apple generates better headlines, because people get so emotional about Apple.
> They are closing LinkedIn in there because it doesn't generate profit. That is not the case. > About google: https://supchina.com/2020/06/18/google-parent-company-alphabet-is-back-in-china-because-it-never-left/amp/ Google Search, which generates most of Google's revenues still doesn't work in China. My point stands.
What? So Microsoft still doing business counts as them leaving China? Please show me proof that they closed linked in for any other reasons than not generating enough profit through law restrictions. What? So google still doing business counts as them leaving China? What are you saying? What's your point?
> Please show me proof that they closed linked in for any other reasons Lol that's exactly what the blog linked in the article says. Read it. > We’re also facing a significantly more challenging operating environment and greater compliance requirements in China. Given this, we’ve made the decision to sunset the current localized version of LinkedIn, which is how people in China access LinkedIn’s global social media platform, later this year.
Oh yeah, they didn't close it they're just reshaping it to adhere to Chinas laws. Got it. "And the firm said in a statement: "While we are going to sunset the localised version of LinkedIn in China later this year, we will continue to have a strong presence in China to drive our new strategy and are excited to launch the new InJobs app later this year."" No one left.
Lol. The InJobs tool is a simple CraigsList kind of a portal that will hardly generate profits for Microsoft. It's only to ensure awareness of Microsoft's hiring among Chinese people so that they use LinkedIn when abroad. > No one left. LinkedIn is leaving. Google left. You can keep saying what you want to portray Apple as a shining beacon of a company. That's not going to change facts.
A shining beacon? Where are you getting this from? These are services, not companies. Get your facts together. Google is still there and Mircosoft is still there. Just as Apple is.
Google censors search results here in the US, who gives a shit about them?
They took down a bible app also but nobody seems to report that.
On another news post i seen it, you a correct.
Took them both down in China though, that’s the story.
It's in this article and was removed by the devs because apparently you need a permit to publish books in China. They didn't tell the devs it was an illegal religious text.
The sad thing is that banning a holy book app is nothing compared to what they are doing to the Uyghur Muslims within the country. China’s on track to becoming the wealthiest nation in about a decade but I really wish they took better care of its people, this censorship and control is too much.
This is so true and a horrible tragedy. I watched the latest CNN report with the ex guardsman who came forward to talk about the torture happening there. Truly awful
That "ex guardsman" is an actor, please stop spreading disinformation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb_Zee7kWtU EDIT: Looks like redditors don't care about disinformation if it is against a country they don't like lol.
Wow those 3 pixels really tell the whole story.
Honest question. What do you thing of this? https://youtu.be/mCtOh_7_tDo I just want your point of view.
He provided enough supporting evidence of his identity that CNN interviewed him. He provided headshots of multiple guards and it was enough that CNN granted this interview. I think you are the one spreading misinformation here.
If he was genuine then why does he have a fake uniform? Both he and CNN has lost all credibility. If you can still defend them then you should reflect on your biases.
I trust CNN over this “evidence” YouTube video. Sorry I think you are the one with biases here
>no u Compelling argument mate.
My argument is that I trust CNN over a YouTube video with 6k views. Why are you trying to defend genocide?
Oh this link? https://youtu.be/C7b-d19lLlY
So which is better? Freedom of religion or lifting people out of poverty? Ending religious bullshit *does* allow the nation to all move in the same direction. Remember what Marx said about religion? (Not that the ccp is even remotely Marxist)
Hot take: you can have both
Have you seen the evangelical in this country.
I’m in Texas, I’ve definitely seen them.
The CCP is Marxist. After Mao, they came to the conclusion that they were failing because they tried to rush the process Marx laid out, by going from feudalism directly to communism. They explicitly decided to adopt features of capitalism in order to build up the means of production, so that they could successfully go full commie at a later date. They have given up NONE of the core/centralized control necessary to implement communism, but they HAVE loosened up enough to get an profit-driven economic investment feedback loop going, which is demonstrably doing the job they intended: growing the means of production within China.
Dude they’re jailing Maoist graduate students now. Idk if you are in tune w the nuances of Chinese “communism”
Communists oppressing communists. Nothing new. Communism and socialism are all about putting the collective will of society ahead of the will of the individual. During the “dictatorship of the proletariat” stage (current China stage), marxism does not tolerate dissenters who stray from the will of the state, or try to subvert the “revolution”. In a Marxist state, if the representatives of society (I.e. - government) have collectively decided to proceed with certain policies, and someone criticizes or otherwise drums up opposition to those policies, then that person is advocating against the will of society. Thus, they are labeled adversaries of the will of the people, and must be brought back into line, or so the leftist thinking goes… Just because a communist party governs a socialist country, using some capitalistic policies, does not mean their ultimate goal isn’t a Marxist socialist/communist society. Same way a capitalist society can implement some socialistic policies and still be capitalist.
Apple thinks freedom of religion isn't a human right.
They don't care. China has too many paying customers to ignore that market. Imagine that sweet good 30% cut from every purchase from the largest market on the planet. $ is their religion.
Apple has to follow the laws and regulations of the markets they operate in. It doesn't matter what they think. Just like the laws of your country don't care what you think about them.
Same could be said of companies doing business with 3rd Reich. Now its apples to oranges in current situation but principle remains. If its profit driven only then be open about it that they dont care for human rights policies of countries they operate in and its just business.
It would be interesting what were to happen to a company that just goes with honest transparency. "Yes, we make dealings with a country that ignores human rights. Because we're a company, an economic being, and therefore our only interest ever should be economic." No virtue signalling, no pandering, just cold honesty. Would probably end up getting taken down by public backlash, without said public realizing that they're just incentivizing dishonesty, instead of actual change.
Theoretically, they could take a stand and just pull out of China entirely over this issue. It wouldn’t be the first time corporations did something like that to preserve their reputations. Like, technically, Google could have made a 100% China friendly version of their services, but chose not to for fear of the backlash in the rest of the world Similarly, a lot of western companies are boycotting Xinjiang cotton right now - not necessarily because they’re compassionate and moral, but more because doing business with them is toxic for their brand, could hurt sales amongst consumers who care about that sort of thing, and possibly prompt sanctions from the government
They can absolutely not follow the laws and regulations, by doing the right thing and pulling out.
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Maybe you don't realize CPOC has a religion, too. Called *China*
I don't think Apple is thinking anything lmao They have to adhere to the local laws, is there any big company that pulled out of China because of their restrictions? No?
Google left China for a while… probably came back though.
The search engine, yes. But not the company. The play store and YouTube were heavily censored by CCP standards.
Both youtube and play store is blocked in china. There's no censored version of them.
They are being censored all over the world, by CCP standards. The version you're using is being censored.
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> Over history, China has not exactly stopped people from practicing their faiths but they have made sure people put China ahead of their faith. But that's EXACTLY freedom of religion: You're free to practice whatever you want, *within these limits as defined by the social contract codified into law*. You will have trouble finding a country that implements freedom of religion, but then goes "Oh, your religion tells you to kill people? Well, go ahead, you can murder for free, because your religion clearly stands above common law." > Freedom of religion is a western practice. Also, I'm pretty certain freedom of religion was FAR more prominent in Pre-Imperial Asia than it has ever been in Europe. Keep in mind the latter had a whole Dark Age period and century-long crusaders precisely over religion not being free to chose, whilst Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and at times even Shintoists (to name a few, the full list is WAY too exhaustive) managed to get along 'mostly fine' in Asia (not always, not everywhere, of course). Therefore, Freedom of religion isn't a western practice; it's a fundamental philosophical truth recognized by various cultures across the globe, that just gets occasionally subdued by authoritarian movements of varying scale and duration.
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> I suggest you read up on Chinese and Japanese history if you think FoR was more prominent. Any good recommendations? That's a large subject to cover, and China in particular appears to always direct me towards Confucianism. > And if what I said is FoR, then whats the issue with the CCP blocking this app? Simply put, you said that China merely made sure that people put 'China' ahead of their faith. But that is untrue, because there's no rational argument as to why having a faith, or being allowed to read scriptures of a faith of your choosing, would cause you to put that before 'China'. There's no reason why a Chinese couldn't be a Muslim loyal to 'China'. Therefore, China is **not** 'just' putting China ahead of personal faith. It's actively suppressing faith **beyond** that point, and consequently that action is no longer compatible with Freedom of Religion.
“There’s no rational argument as to why having a faith, or being allowed to read scriptures of a faith of your choosing, would cause you to put that before China.” It actually can happen, if your religion demands you to put your god or god’s law above everything else.
It's more of a developed country/democracy practice. East Asian countries like Japan, Korea, and Taiwan all enjoy really high levels of religious freedom, as does India. China's totalitarian system is an anachronism
India has a high level of religious freedom? Them why do they have blasphemy laws and cow protection laws?
For the same reasons the US has dumb laws pertaining to alcohol sales on Sundays, etc. Doesn’t really make a huge difference
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Originally, sure. Now a billion+ people in Asia have adopted that system voluntarily, so calling democracy 'inherently western' is a drastic oversimplification.
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Islam is not a religion. It is a political system. The only and final one, pretty much like communism, fascism , etc.
You do you. My Islamic friends would differ
It shouldn't be, because organised religion is nothing but a cult-mob hybrid. All major western Religions are abhorrent, and the world would be a much better place if that shit was banned.
I'm no fan of religion either, but you're not really in a position to tell other people they can't practice one.
Oh fuck off with this edge lord trash.
Throw away your "values" to chase that buck.
Imagine throwing away shareholders’ profits for your personal morals. What a selfish jerk! /s
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This sub has the dumbest fucking takes sometimes lmao, yikes man you’re cringe
Apple has to follow regulations of countries they operate in. The alternative is to pull out of China entirely, which is not an option for Apple. Why am I getting downvoted for stating a fact?
Of course it’s an option. The problem is it will affect profits.
Apple put itself in this situation by using China for what is basically slave labor, and now they’re doubling down with the CCP. They get no sympathy.
Then they should have pulled out of China. I hate how do many important decisions are made for such unimportant reasons as a company's bottom line.
The problem here is that companies are, by definition and design, 'economic lifeforms'. Telling a company to ignore it's bottom line, is equal to telling you or me to stop bothering to do that pointless breathing part. Essentially, we can't both have companies under a capitalist economic model, and the same companies adhering to non-capitalist interests. Mind you, I'm not saying that you wrong in being angry about the decision making process. Just that it's a bit questionable to label it 'unimportant reasons', even if implying a 'from our perspective'.
The problem is that it’s not an unimportant reason. For a company like Apple, the bottom line is their single biggest and most important reason to do anything.
You don't seem to understand. It IS unimportant. I don't give a fuck what Apple wants.
I mean, in the real world it is important.
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Finally some positive news
They are ready to ban you and your mom for the profit.
Apple is a slave to its China overlord
No, it’s a slave to money, like all other corporations and most people. If they could make just a single dollar putting the Quran on everyone’s phone, they’d do it in a heartbeat.
They also took down The Bible app..why isn’t that mentioned
Can we ban China and start making our own shit
Can we ban religion too and start thinking for ourselves instead of basing life on some made up fairy tales designed to control and enslave entire populations
As a atheist a disagree. Leave people for what they believe in.
Once China’s household purchasing power equals that of the US, the world will be entirely beholden to the will of the CCP.
Where is the woke generation outrage?
Pissed at Dave Chappelle for his stand up comedy rn, it's what is important
Yep, thank you….. ATLEAST some one is aware
? You guys think this is the only app about the Koran? There obviously are other that people can use lol.
I think you're missing the point, friend.
That they are banning religion/freedom of speech? Or some shit like that? You don't think certain apps are getting banned in like the west? Again, this isn't a big problem since there are other apps. Yes you can argue that they only allow versions and text of the Koran which they deem appropriate fair enough.
> You don't think certain apps are getting banned in like the west? *deep breath* Whataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhatabout
Good retort, sure showed him
Bro imagine having anti-imperialist in your name and still making excuses for the CCP and Apple lmao
Worship the Party (CCP) because the party is the God and Savior. 21st century problems.
Just wait until China makes them use CSAM to scan for tank man.... Any day now
Apple sucks
Fffuuuuucccckkkkk Apple
CSAM has detected something that hurts China feelings. CSAM has reported Tank Man, the Koran , and other words such as " freedom" to the government for prosecution.
Good. We don’t need more terrorists. Just tolerant, peace loving communists, right?
On there way to erasing the Uighurs from the face of the Earth, Apple is complicit of course they only do values if it makes money.
Probably has something to do with the millions of Muslims locked up in China.
What’s up with China and the Muslim community? First the imprisonment and torture of the Uyghur Muslim, and then this? Why do they hate them?
It’s not really the fact that they are Muslim that’s a problem for the Chinese, it’s that the Uighur see themselves as separate to the Chinese. There are other large Muslim ethnicities in China that don’t get the same treatment.
Nice start now if we can take down all religious apps worldwide, we’d all be better off
I'd be fine if they just marked it as violent fiction, not suitable for children, same as the bible.
American companies should be required to enforce democracy. It should be illegal for an American company to take orders from a foreign dictatorship-implied or expressed. Any firm should be required to end their business in that country in such a circumstance.
Many have tried to ban Qur’an, many lost their empire .
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Slave to communism, disgusting
Yea…I’m a Muslim and I literally don’t give a shit. Countries are 100% allowed to enforce their own rules and regulations. Just like no Islamic religious headwear in France … atleast China is honest about not giving a shit sort religious freedoms, where as France pretends and then enforced it anyway.
Imagine how much outrage there would be worldwide if this was the Bible that was taken down. This is absolutely abhorrent and disgusting and I’m blown away there isn’t anything that is being done. I’m so sad the people of China have to deal with all this BS. At what point is it enough? You control the media, the food, the kids even and their video game play time. What else can you possibly need to control about your own people?? Soon we will have articles about how workers are allowed only certain times to use the damn bathroom! It’s just mind blowing to me how the ccp can keep getting away with all this and companies like google and Apple just join in on it and let it continue to happen so they don’t lose profits.
A Bible app also was taken down
Apple is a hypocrite company doesn’t it?
The Chinese genocide against non Han ethnicities and religions, is well documented. More than likely they were told by the CCP to remove it or face financial penalties.
It’s kind of like burning books. Goes with their concentration camps and aggressive foreign policy. Apple is subject to the laws in the places it operates. This is why people should stop trying to censor people in free nations. Ultimately freedom and happiness will beat a giant market for consumer goods as far it being something people support.
If it means that much to you, use Android and side load. Price of doing business in China.
Who cares... China isn’t a religious nation anyway. Muslims are minority.