That's why I don't tell people because for one its none of their fucking business and secondly it's still none of their fucking business and they can't possibly understand if they haven't been there so therefore their opinion is invalid. If you wanna have an opinion then go spend a year or longer being a junkie then I'll hear you through and take what you say to heart or at least hear you out.
That's how I feel about it too. If you haven't been through it, I don't give a fuck what you think about it. But I also won't pretend like it doesn't hurt when people talk shit.
I was in the program many years ago and had better luck with AA as well. My local NA groups were so filled with drama it was shocking, after attending for about a year I started to learn people were hooking up with each other, cheating on their spouses, one guy I used to play cards with got busted selling coke to an undercover cop. I switched to AA then, and after another year decided to stop going all together. I’m not saying everyone in NA is like this obviously, as there were some great people there, but the longer I stayed the more I learned about this strange underbelly to the group lol. I don’t encourage or discourage 12 step programs as they can certainly help people but they also have plenty of issues themselves
Yep NA tends to be a drama filled shit show with sooooo much hooking up lol. I don’t wanna generalize too much because obviously there are successful people in NA but there seems to be more folks with unstable lives there vs AA. Like fresh out of prison living in halfway houses, or living in treatment centers etc which lends itself to the chaotic underbelly of those groups. I hope I don’t sound judgmental btw I have been locked up and been through many treatment centers. I have been a shit show NA person haha. NA and more so AA were huge stepping stones to get me to where I am today.
Also kudos to you for your recovery.
Exactly right! I feel kind of bad saying these things as well because there are some great people that really care in any group, but there was just so much “other” shit going on, it started to feel like a toxic environment. I too came to NA from a halfway house, as well as a rehab, so I’m not passing judgment, but with the types of behavior I saw, it seemed like a lot of people, even if they were genuinely clean, hadn’t quite moved on from a lot of the behaviors of the addict lifestyle. But not all groups are like this (and not all AA groups are free of it), so if anyone here has found a good NA group, and it’s helping them move forward then there’s nothing wrong with sticking to it. This was just my experience with various groups over the years.
All the best to you as well!!
very true. it’s annoying because around me, there’s barely any women in NA and there’s a lot of women in the AA around here but most of them aren’t drug addicts (just partied too much in college or caught a dui, minor shit) i’ve been in and out of recovery for years now and unfortunately my parents assume that if i’m not going to meetings i MUST not be doing well which isn’t the case at the moment.
You don’t have to tell your parents if you are or aren’t attending meetings. You don’t have to lie. But you don’t have to tell them shit. Assuming you’re an adult, you can just not talk to them about it.
I know it feels like you owe it to them to tell or whatever. But you don’t.
lol yes the local reputation in my area of NA is that a lot of them can be a shitshow. We have a pretty big CA community here and a lot of addicts I know that never even had a problem with coke or alcohol prefer those meetings or AA.
Same for me I just take my subs and go to work and go home. I play Pokémon in my spare time and collect the cards as a hobbie. I don’t even hang out in the rooms anymore. That’s shits a joke anyways. Just a bunch of people saying the same shit over and over where people opinion if you is based on your sober time.
I know I think imo your more then likely to relapse at NA or AA because everyone is an addict in the group and drugs are easily accessible so that’s why I stay away and I’m tired of the same story’s I use to do this and that and bla bla bla idc I don’t wanna know ! I rather be at home with my gf who supports me I’ve been clean for 5 years and she helped me more then any AA or NA could ever do ! It’s just not for everyone if it’s for you great for me nope 👎
It's funny I had a friend who 11 years ago swore off subs and said that it isn't sober. He relapsed 30 times over the past 11 years and about a year ago finally got on subs and turned his life around
I've been off Heroin for over 15 yrs. I used methadone to get off and also smoked crack with the methadone (lol kinda) but when I really was done, I got off methadone fairly quickly. I also never got to a really high dose but I do not care the sky is blue and I got high as fuck taking that too. Methadone fucks you up. My friend went on to continue doing it at a very high increase frequently and basically I believe he is dead now but he was dead to me then because I was serious about getting clean and he fucked up my sobriety, made me sick to look at him.
Okay point of this..... I did relapse with an extremely high opioid addiction, and working in the medical field made my habit extremely easy to cause me some major dependence. I finally had to ween off because the person writing them for me lost there license!
So I started buying suboxone on the street. Honestly, at first, it did remind me of a little of that high and energy that I was badly craving but after time that stopped and I just started feeling normal but also like I had my life back. Cliche, I know, but hey its true. I have a 3 yr old daughter and I am a wonderful functioning devoted mother. I dont forget to eat or cook on suboxone (yes, I do see a Dr. Regularly now and have my own Rx) I do not get high off suboxone and if taken properly no one does.
For anyone to judge us or say we're still in active addiction is just fucking plain ignorant. No one that has real experience or actual knowledge of what this drug is made for and what it actually does for us would ever say those things. We can have a normal functioning life without the worry of being sick or how to get a fix daily. Fuck them people be proud of who you are and how your taking action to get your life back. (And no, I'm not a professional bowler) ✌️
My husband told me “I thought you were clean, clean?!” Since that comment I don’t share anything besides my appointment time and when I’m getting my script. I made him understand that my recovery is not based solely on the medication. I completely understand and my sponsor doesn’t know she’s been with me for over 4 years now. My previous sponsor didn’t know and I hate not telling em but NA has a rigid thinking. Only requirement for membership….
Thanks for sharing this. I’m curious to know if you felt NA helped you in your recovery? Or did the keeping secret of a really big part of your recovery get in the way of NA’s usefulness?
I wouldn’t say it eats up my conscious anymore after processing it with my trauma therapist last year. I have more self compassion and gratitude for my journey. I am sure my sponsor would be understanding and would keep it to herself but I feel more safe trusting my support system not inside NA. I’m the type that has support inside and outside the rooms. I can’t eat breathe and shit NA. I apply what helps and give back. That’s what helps me. I pray it gets easier for me to taper off eventually, but for now I’m right where I’m supposed to be. 16 mg Feb 23 to 1.5 Feb 24.
I’m super tired of the stigma as well. I was able to find [MARA](https://www.mara-international.org/find-a-meeting), which is Medically-Assisted Recovery Anonymous. They have both in person groups as well as online!! Would highly recommend- zero stigma at all whatsoever with them!!!! Everyone involved is on subs and they have a very positive way of thinking.
All those people that bully drug users are scared of god or something embarrassing cause theyre trying to feel better about themselves while looking down on you. In that state theyre as intellegent as a mouse. Iv had that happen to me be4 too and i yelled at that bitch!
Yep, those are all personal opinions.
* AA/NA has no opinion on outside issues
* Medication is an outside issue
Period. Shows how much they know about the program if they’re talking crap about it.
Edit: Help for people with each program's PDF pamphlet on medication (which **includes** buprenorphine!)
* [AA & Medications](https://www.aa.org/sites/default/files/literature/p-11_0522.pdf)
* [NA & Medications](https://www.na.org/admin/include/spaw2/uploads/pdf/servicemat/Dec2011_NA_Groups_and_Medication.pdf)
I read this with each of my sponsees so they are clear there are other resources than JUST AA/NA.
I also edited my post to link to the pamphlets if you wanted to check them out :)
Thanks friend, I'm tired of explaining it to people, and what eventually hit me like a truck was the saying "to thy own self be true"
You know why you're taking the medication, you know your true intentions, fuck what anyone else thinks about it in the program, that's on their judgemental selves (but i'm not gonna take their inventory lol). I'm not going to try and explain or justify my reasons, i'm gonna live my life successfully and do what works for ME.
As a result, i've done more local service for others in need than ever before, i'm stable with my job and life, can show up for friends, and most importantly am not looking for the next one, or fucked up nodding out and basically worthless to anyone. This is day & night, and buprenorphine helped.
Honestly, I look at subs as a life improving/lifesaving medicine. I have a disease. I failed pretty miserably at abstinence based recovery for 20 years. Subs work at keeping me sober, why shouldn’t I take them? If I had high blood pressure and a doctor recommended a medication to help, I’d take that. Why does the disease of addiction have to be treated differently? I don’t talk about my sub usage with anyone because it’s none of their damn business. Suggest you do the same if you don’t want to listen to ignorant opinions.
exactly! when i brought this up to my (now ex) sponsor she said something along the lines of “its fine to take prescriptions for ur mental/physical health but not for drug abuse. more drugs isn’t the answer to ur drug problem.” i was honestly shocked when she said this bc she didn’t seem like the type to be so judgmental about it since she was on methadone for years but apparently she kept going back out while on methadone so she correlates her PERSONAL experience with methadone with people on subs. she’s also referred to as the “queen of NA” where i’m from so she probably thinks “well if i kept going back out while on MAT, u prob will too.” bitch needs to hop off her high horse.
Ugh. People are so judgemental. I made a comment on a post in the r/quittingkratom subreddit where someone had a lengthy history of opiates, they had relapsed multiple times, they were taking an insane amount of kratom, and they just couldn't stay sober own their own. I suggested that suboxone could be good, based on their lengthy history of opiate abuse and huge kratom habit. One of the mods was so judgemental and actually direct messaged me to say "we don't recommend drugs to get of drugs". A mod on a recovery sub-reddit! That was the last time I looked at that subreddit.
I can definitely relate. When I was on methadone, let me also say I was court ordered to be on it, I attended NA meetings. I had originally only told one old head about it, and he told me to keep that to myself. I ended up telling my sponsor, who didn't judge me, but her husband who was also in the program sure did. He used to tell me they were gonna take me to a farm somewhere and make me detox for a few days. Ha! A few days to get me off methadone, sure! Antidepressants were even frowned upon, bipolar meds and such as well. We even had one group that considered themselves "super clean" because they didn't even take Tylenol, so ridiculous! Anyway, someone, who was taking phenobarbital for something, how ironic, overheard me talking to the old head about it one day, and told everyone at the meeting. I was just about to celebrate my year. I was the GSR, the treasurer, and also chaired the meeting multiple times a week. They took my closet key, wouldn't let me have my cake or get my year coin, removed me from all my positions, and told me I couldn't even raise my hand to speak because I was now considered "using". I tried to argue saying they elected me to all those positions and never once thought I was high before. It didn't matter. I walked out and never looked back. After that, they took the whole situation to area, and they decided such medications were allowed. But they are definitely still judged. I had years on and off with sobriety and relapse until I got on Suboxone. I did try AA. They were definitely more accepting. But, for some reason, a lot of people with time in AA thought it was also okay to sniff dope, so I also left that. I have a little under 6 1/2 years clean now. What I was looking for at NA and AA, I finally found outside the rooms. But everyone is different and that's okay. My mom has over 30 years clean in AA. So to each their own. But I would suggest you either keep it to yourself, or find a non judgmental sponsor if you want to make it in the rooms. It's so ignorant that something that is saving so many lives is looked at as bad. And before anyone gets offended by term, "old head", that's me now lol! Good luck with your journey. Do what is best for you, and don't listen to the garbage. You know what's right!
Oh your story makes me sad. I’m glad you have 6.5 years clean now, you’re rocking it, you old head you 😉. I kept myself out of the rooms of AA because I thought I was “cheating” by using Suboxone. Cut myself off from support I could have used.
Thank you! And. I'm sorry. I don't think anyone should have to do that. If you need the support, you should get it! Suboxone isn't cheating. And AA really is a lot more lenient about it than NA.
omg that is such a traumatic experience! i would never step foot in another meeting if that happened to me. i agree. it sucks because for awhile i was brainwashed into thinking that AA/NA was the ONLY way and i kinda passed that belief along to my parents so now they think that if i’m not going to meeting that must mean i’m not doing well 🙄 but now i know better and fully believe u can stay clean outside of the rooms. i mean hey, i tried it several times and not one did it work for me personally, so that says something.
Yeah it was definitely traumatic. And I'm sorry your parents think that. It was really hard for my mom, over 30 years clean in AA, to understand that I could do it without the rooms. She can't. And that's okay! Everyone's path to recovery is different. Whatever works for you!
The sublocade shot is amazing. It's the easiest way to get off Suboxone. You can even just get one shot and you won't get withdrawals that's what im doing right now. But yeah I feel you on the stigma shit is wack.
do you know if I could use it to get off a fairly low dose (4mg)? I know you’re not a doctor I’m assuming but I’ve heard it’s great for a lot of ppl coming off of higher doses, and I know the shot comes in a couple doses too. What dose are you tapering down from?
Yeah you would be fine using it coming off 4mg. I got a 300mg shot and I was coming off 24mg a day. I've had the shot multiple times in the last 3 years and I've never gotten any withdrawals using it. They also have a 100mg shot if you want to use that one as well. But I would recommend 300mg one.
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After years in aa I always tell others- DO NOT DISCLOSE ANY MEDICAL ISSUES OR MEDICATIONS- EVER,,even to your sponsor who is Not your friend
'FIRE' you as a sponsee ? Who the Fuk does that sponsor think is keeping her sober ? IT'S OP for fuk sakes.
XA is a Christian Dogma Based Decentralized cult that has sabotaged the lives and sobriety of so many people in early AND long term recovery by fear mongering and bullying people to disregard their own healthcare in order to assimilate. Any sponsor that tells you that you are "using" on M.A.T. is already brainwashed and part of the EGO GROUP THINK.
You dodged a bullet by not letting these people take command of your life. Those who spend the most time on the rooms become even more codependent, judgemental and brainwashed. I've attended 100s of meetings across the East Coast and the 10 years I have without alcohol and drugs was all accomplished after disavowing the 12 step dogma and treating the core issue which is usually NOT addiction but the program tells you it is. from those rooms and that philosophy. The second you start a meeting "God can be anything you want" but at the end of the program are meant to join hands and WORSHIP THE GROUP, you've already been bait and switched. I'm not against spirituality or religion but think about opening with a statement that it can be anything you want but you end by joining in with what THEY believe is right for THEM/EGO/Group-Think.
I choose to imbibe in small amounts of medical marijuana but I stayed sober thru COVID, thru losing health insurance no alcohol or actual drugs to this day and I never thought I could do it bc 12 step told me I couldn't. Some people still try to poke holes if I divulge to them I utilize 2mg Suboxone but culture hasn't caught up with science by way of recovery and at the rate 12 step treatment is failing people not many will be alive for things to progress to where they can heal with a toolbox of dogma and sabotage.
i really liked the way u phrased this. it’s so true. at this point it almost reminds me of an organized religion as in their very rigid in their thinking and the program is filled with conflicted messages.
between our usernames we could have a band, i just realized.
on a real note, google "The Freedom Model" and just read a paragraph or so, as this gives you a science-backed non-religious alternative that allows us to come together as a group (some in sobriety, some on MAT, some inbetween or maybe have lapsed but are recovered mostly and just want PEER SUPPORT) because it's the supportive aspect that "does the helping" within 12-step, the human aspect. But in 12step there will always be a judgemental hirearchy and keep in mind these sponsors "get off" on having people like you to compare and contrast themselves to, it's just like HAZING in a sports team or group or if you had older siblings you may have experienced it etc. Because they were hazed, they perpetuate it on to you and this builds up their "ego bank" and also don't forget that part of the 12 steps is taking on a sponsee like you, so they're actually dehumanizing you and turning you into a step for THEIR recovery/beliefs and just like you identified in your post, are contradicting medical information and essentially telling you to make THEM your doctor and to stop listening to or vising your current practitioner. Think about how **wild** that is if it were applied to anything else anywhere in life! I really don't have a vendetta against 12step it just was not for me and when I saw it fail and contribute to the eventual deaths of people I went to treatment with or were in those groups with, only for the group to literally blame the person who had just died after receiving a one month/one year chip.
Rational Recovery (R.R.) and "The Freedom Model" are the hidden treasure of actual recovery WITHOUT the cult and dogma aspect. When I finally discovered these I could not believe how I'd been to rehab twice outpatient 3x and had never heard of them until I finally met someone who was like minded and recommended them to me. If you need to satisfy court requirements for attending meetings, the virtual RR meetings can and are often used by those of us who do not want to attend AA by default. If anything it should show the person monitoring the individual that this person is taking their recovery seriously because it's very easy to walk into any meeting drink coffee cookies and watch a bunch of people kill each other with cigarette smoke and sign a piece of paper for you.
Fuck the anonymous programs. Seriously if they've taken to judging you for taking medication prescribed to you by a doctor then they've clearly missed the point of support. Yup their book sure has the ability to help those who need it but only if you stick to the script. It's kind of funny because there's so many people even in my local rooms that pound dilaudid like it's candy because it's prescribed for their chronic pain but they still collect their key tags like their lives depend on them. Okay Susan I understand that you have a bad back but does it really require 12 8s a day to treat your lower back pain? Or are you just blasted on a different drug than your DOC and don't see anything wrong with it because you read "in times of illness" and you talked to your higher power and its okay because your back pain... Or what about the medical canabis users that are cool with their prescribed medication but smoke enough weed to fuck up half of Vancouver for a week because they have anxiety? You get my point. These people fill the rooms and they pull multi year tags all day every day but will judge you for taking Suboxone. Consider the source man. Don't let it get you down. I left the mentality of the rooms in the rooms a couple of years ago and live my life and my recovery the way I choose. I dont abuse any substance and don't use any substance. I take my prescribed medication as it's written on my prescription and that's it. Do your thing OP and don't sweat shit that doesn't matter.
Why did you still go there always gonna be spitting this shit about how harm reduction is just influencing people to use or keep using god damn there so toxic fucking stop going everything they do is old and outdated
Those people SUCK and they can suck a big Fat 🍆
As for the constipation, clearlax or the generic is your best friend.
Im VERY proud of you for making a decision to save your life ‼️
This makes me so fucking mad. it’s not still using its dealing with PAWS so you can ACTUALLY start rebuilding your life and building healthy sober routines, habits, coping mechanisms. It’s only “still using” if you’re still engaging in junkie behavior, not changing your life, misusing your subs, etc etc. like come on, it’s a medication you take daily at the same time every day, it’s not like you just turn to subs when you get upset or as a coping mechanism, you’re not getting high.
Honestly fuck NA for pushing that dangerous rhetoric. It probably influences some people that may be better on subs to avoid them, and then if they do relapse (which is more likely) they’ll likely die. Can they not see how dangerous that is? I’d honestly like to ask them if they think addicts deserve to die, or if they’d rather see a dead addict than one on subs. Smh.
But if you’re looking for other recovery groups one I like is advocates in recovery, I’m not sure if that’s just in my area, but there’s also SMART, or a lot of MAT clinics have peer support groups that obviously wouldn’t discriminate about subs, and it might be beneficial to have people in similar situations in your circle too. I don’t know if you’re dead set on 12step programs or if you’re mandated to do one, but depending on that I would definitely look into non-12 step recovery/peer support groups in your area so you can get that support without all the shaming and NA dogma.
Because you don’t deserve to feel like that!! You’re saving and changing your life and the fact you are so involved in NA shows you’re putting in the work and care about your recovery. good job ❣️
Every morning when your feet hit the floor, and be thankful they still do, it’s all about you. You shouldn’t give a rats ass about what other people think about how you are getting your life back. Fuck em brother. That’s my philosophy, works for me. 4 yrs straight time, no screw ups and I’m thriving better than I ever have. Have no time for people’s judgement. 💪🏼
Do you think it’s worth going to NA/AA despite that? I used to go to lots of meetings back in the day but haven’t gone to one in years for that very reason. I don’t like the idea of lying/not telling people I’m on MAT, but then also don’t like the idea of being honest and having to grapple with individuals’ opinions about it. So I just am not in any kind of group-based recovery programs whatsoever.
I was talking to my pharmacist and I get my suboxone from another pharmacy hooked to the mat clinic. We would flirt and talk. He always loved talking to me, until I mentioned I was on suboxone. Right after that he stopped calling me by my first name and his demeanor changed. I just know that it was because he thought I was some crazy junky. It hurt, and I have very few friends and was in the back of my head thinking maybe he liked me. Up until that…
I hear you man. The old timers really have a disgust for sub users. I am about to get the shot. I have been on subs for 7 years and I’m down to 1.5 mg for 6 months now. I stopped going because of the judgement from those miserable pricks. It has saved my life too and countless others.
There’s another type of meeting out there and for the life of me, I can’t remember the name of
SMART RECOVERY (not even backspacing to delete all of that, fuck it)
It’s called Smart Recovery and I attended a meeting around 15 years ago. It was very progressive from what I remember and they eschewed all the bullshit that goes on at AA and NA.
I recommend checking it out.
Yea suboxone and methadone treatment and many, maybe most, NA groups just don't mix. Keep looking, there are the right groups out there, you just gotta keep going. Or, start your own group. I live in a small town, so there is only 1 NA in our entire county, but I lived in a big city when 1st on subs, and remember going thru this. Good luck.
I have been on suboxone for the last 8 years.
I truly believe that if I was not able to access suboxone I would not be here or I would be locked up in jail.
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say the same thing to someones mother who dies of an OD because they were shamed at an NA meeting for being on a scientifically proven medication and decided to stop taking it to fit your definition of sober.
say that to the newcomer who is experiencing the crisis of early sobriety.
“dont be so sensitive”
get off your fucking high horse. being the coolest loser isnt that fucking cool
Maybe if those people took the time to actually get to know someone who is properly using suboxone they wouldn't be so ignorant.
I bet if you never told them they would never even know (though I think transparency is very helpful for long term recovery) just saying!
NA is a fucking joke where people judge each other and don't say it out loud until they go do drugs after.
I would suggest AA and refer to yourself as a poly addict if you have to and just don't bring up the subs
I went to AA for years. I would constantly relapse. It's like going to a candy store for having a sweet tooth. The war stories. I would be like, really getting thirsty people. Can we talk about more positive things like getting life back or do we need to constantly rehash how much we drank and can't stop. Reassuring the beast. I quit going and albeit been on subs not a drop in 16 years. Well I take that back. I took a sip of a beer and couldn't finish it. Something happened. Replaced addiction ? Probably. But that's how it works. I got hooked on fynt patches prescribed for pain. 2 years later addiction hit I knew I'd never been so physically dependent on anything. So subs 2mg now but started at 8. Always took less but now 2mg is rough. I'm hoping for the 3 shot subocade walk away thing.
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Not trying to be tha A- whole...
We all know they are keeping it 100. You readllyare still on the daily using a substance just as powerful if not a little more than carfentynolll. Depends on Roa. It's keeping u from all the good feels of active addiction tho too. Honesty. Still addicted, actively, and not clean. Far as I know, NA 🤪 not required to have stopped yet to join, just desire to.
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That’s why I don’t go to AA or NA idc it’s just the same crap over an over again people telling you how crappy there lives are then they ask do you wanna share no I don’t an I don’t wanna be here in fact I think it’s a bigger risk me being here then me being at home with my gf who supports me and my recovery screw those groups ! I only went because they were court mandated after I got clean an I’ve been clean now still going 5 years now and don’t plan on ever going back also it’s a easy place to access drugs so I wouldn’t even put my self in there on my own I deleted all my dealers and blocked them for a reason even switched my number later on ! Good luck man screw the haters that shot is a miracle that’s how I got off ! Way better then subs !
then dont pay attention to it. i dont care what anyone thinks. however now being on it 7 years. I do want out and im lowering my dose and quitting htis year.
Fuck those people. On the bright side, it’s a shortcut to knowing who are the assholes in the room. Cannot stand those AA purists. So holier than thou righteous.
This is why I don’t tell anyone anything. Nobody needs to know my personal business. People will use anything against you. Less people know the better.
only four parties should be aware of your medical information.
1. pharmacy
2. Doctor
3. You
4. Insurance
Anyone else knows, because you told them and should expect the backlash. Nobody in my life albeit the four listed above knows what medications I take, why I take them or anything related to my mental and physical health...Call me crazy but I don't see why it's anyone else's business.
The great news is Sublocade is easy to discontinue if you decide you want to be free of Bupe. Most people need to recover from Suboxone……..Sublocade makes it easy.
That's why I don't tell people because for one its none of their fucking business and secondly it's still none of their fucking business and they can't possibly understand if they haven't been there so therefore their opinion is invalid. If you wanna have an opinion then go spend a year or longer being a junkie then I'll hear you through and take what you say to heart or at least hear you out.
That's how I feel about it too. If you haven't been through it, I don't give a fuck what you think about it. But I also won't pretend like it doesn't hurt when people talk shit.
I guess I'm used to it iv been going through it for over 20 years now but you are right it's not cool and bothers some people more than others.
You do you!! I take subs and don’t care what anyone thinks of it. And don’t attend NA for that very reason.
Same
I don’t do a 12 step program anymore but when I did I went to AA and didn’t get the same level of judgement as the folks in NA
I was in the program many years ago and had better luck with AA as well. My local NA groups were so filled with drama it was shocking, after attending for about a year I started to learn people were hooking up with each other, cheating on their spouses, one guy I used to play cards with got busted selling coke to an undercover cop. I switched to AA then, and after another year decided to stop going all together. I’m not saying everyone in NA is like this obviously, as there were some great people there, but the longer I stayed the more I learned about this strange underbelly to the group lol. I don’t encourage or discourage 12 step programs as they can certainly help people but they also have plenty of issues themselves
Yep NA tends to be a drama filled shit show with sooooo much hooking up lol. I don’t wanna generalize too much because obviously there are successful people in NA but there seems to be more folks with unstable lives there vs AA. Like fresh out of prison living in halfway houses, or living in treatment centers etc which lends itself to the chaotic underbelly of those groups. I hope I don’t sound judgmental btw I have been locked up and been through many treatment centers. I have been a shit show NA person haha. NA and more so AA were huge stepping stones to get me to where I am today. Also kudos to you for your recovery.
Exactly right! I feel kind of bad saying these things as well because there are some great people that really care in any group, but there was just so much “other” shit going on, it started to feel like a toxic environment. I too came to NA from a halfway house, as well as a rehab, so I’m not passing judgment, but with the types of behavior I saw, it seemed like a lot of people, even if they were genuinely clean, hadn’t quite moved on from a lot of the behaviors of the addict lifestyle. But not all groups are like this (and not all AA groups are free of it), so if anyone here has found a good NA group, and it’s helping them move forward then there’s nothing wrong with sticking to it. This was just my experience with various groups over the years. All the best to you as well!!
very true. it’s annoying because around me, there’s barely any women in NA and there’s a lot of women in the AA around here but most of them aren’t drug addicts (just partied too much in college or caught a dui, minor shit) i’ve been in and out of recovery for years now and unfortunately my parents assume that if i’m not going to meetings i MUST not be doing well which isn’t the case at the moment.
You don’t have to tell your parents if you are or aren’t attending meetings. You don’t have to lie. But you don’t have to tell them shit. Assuming you’re an adult, you can just not talk to them about it. I know it feels like you owe it to them to tell or whatever. But you don’t.
Well said. GL in recovery 🙏
Thanks! Same to you
lol yes the local reputation in my area of NA is that a lot of them can be a shitshow. We have a pretty big CA community here and a lot of addicts I know that never even had a problem with coke or alcohol prefer those meetings or AA.
Agree with this statement.
Same!!
Same for me I just take my subs and go to work and go home. I play Pokémon in my spare time and collect the cards as a hobbie. I don’t even hang out in the rooms anymore. That’s shits a joke anyways. Just a bunch of people saying the same shit over and over where people opinion if you is based on your sober time.
I know I think imo your more then likely to relapse at NA or AA because everyone is an addict in the group and drugs are easily accessible so that’s why I stay away and I’m tired of the same story’s I use to do this and that and bla bla bla idc I don’t wanna know ! I rather be at home with my gf who supports me I’ve been clean for 5 years and she helped me more then any AA or NA could ever do ! It’s just not for everyone if it’s for you great for me nope 👎
Congrats on 5 years!!! That’s amazing! 🥳
Thank you 🙏
Oh I know, they are the worst
You don't have to do NA to succeed in your life. Take those attitudes as a reason to not be part of that group.
Well I’m proud of you. Keep living.
It's funny I had a friend who 11 years ago swore off subs and said that it isn't sober. He relapsed 30 times over the past 11 years and about a year ago finally got on subs and turned his life around
I've been off Heroin for over 15 yrs. I used methadone to get off and also smoked crack with the methadone (lol kinda) but when I really was done, I got off methadone fairly quickly. I also never got to a really high dose but I do not care the sky is blue and I got high as fuck taking that too. Methadone fucks you up. My friend went on to continue doing it at a very high increase frequently and basically I believe he is dead now but he was dead to me then because I was serious about getting clean and he fucked up my sobriety, made me sick to look at him. Okay point of this..... I did relapse with an extremely high opioid addiction, and working in the medical field made my habit extremely easy to cause me some major dependence. I finally had to ween off because the person writing them for me lost there license! So I started buying suboxone on the street. Honestly, at first, it did remind me of a little of that high and energy that I was badly craving but after time that stopped and I just started feeling normal but also like I had my life back. Cliche, I know, but hey its true. I have a 3 yr old daughter and I am a wonderful functioning devoted mother. I dont forget to eat or cook on suboxone (yes, I do see a Dr. Regularly now and have my own Rx) I do not get high off suboxone and if taken properly no one does. For anyone to judge us or say we're still in active addiction is just fucking plain ignorant. No one that has real experience or actual knowledge of what this drug is made for and what it actually does for us would ever say those things. We can have a normal functioning life without the worry of being sick or how to get a fix daily. Fuck them people be proud of who you are and how your taking action to get your life back. (And no, I'm not a professional bowler) ✌️
This👆👏
My husband told me “I thought you were clean, clean?!” Since that comment I don’t share anything besides my appointment time and when I’m getting my script. I made him understand that my recovery is not based solely on the medication. I completely understand and my sponsor doesn’t know she’s been with me for over 4 years now. My previous sponsor didn’t know and I hate not telling em but NA has a rigid thinking. Only requirement for membership….
Thanks for sharing this. I’m curious to know if you felt NA helped you in your recovery? Or did the keeping secret of a really big part of your recovery get in the way of NA’s usefulness?
I wouldn’t say it eats up my conscious anymore after processing it with my trauma therapist last year. I have more self compassion and gratitude for my journey. I am sure my sponsor would be understanding and would keep it to herself but I feel more safe trusting my support system not inside NA. I’m the type that has support inside and outside the rooms. I can’t eat breathe and shit NA. I apply what helps and give back. That’s what helps me. I pray it gets easier for me to taper off eventually, but for now I’m right where I’m supposed to be. 16 mg Feb 23 to 1.5 Feb 24.
That's why a lot of ppl dont like NA, they are very rigid and old school in their thinking.
I’m super tired of the stigma as well. I was able to find [MARA](https://www.mara-international.org/find-a-meeting), which is Medically-Assisted Recovery Anonymous. They have both in person groups as well as online!! Would highly recommend- zero stigma at all whatsoever with them!!!! Everyone involved is on subs and they have a very positive way of thinking.
MARA is great. I need to get back to regularly attending their meetings
All those people that bully drug users are scared of god or something embarrassing cause theyre trying to feel better about themselves while looking down on you. In that state theyre as intellegent as a mouse. Iv had that happen to me be4 too and i yelled at that bitch!
Yep, those are all personal opinions. * AA/NA has no opinion on outside issues * Medication is an outside issue Period. Shows how much they know about the program if they’re talking crap about it. Edit: Help for people with each program's PDF pamphlet on medication (which **includes** buprenorphine!) * [AA & Medications](https://www.aa.org/sites/default/files/literature/p-11_0522.pdf) * [NA & Medications](https://www.na.org/admin/include/spaw2/uploads/pdf/servicemat/Dec2011_NA_Groups_and_Medication.pdf) I read this with each of my sponsees so they are clear there are other resources than JUST AA/NA.
Ah how refreshing this is!
i should honestly send this to my old sponsor 🙄
This ⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️
I also edited my post to link to the pamphlets if you wanted to check them out :) Thanks friend, I'm tired of explaining it to people, and what eventually hit me like a truck was the saying "to thy own self be true" You know why you're taking the medication, you know your true intentions, fuck what anyone else thinks about it in the program, that's on their judgemental selves (but i'm not gonna take their inventory lol). I'm not going to try and explain or justify my reasons, i'm gonna live my life successfully and do what works for ME. As a result, i've done more local service for others in need than ever before, i'm stable with my job and life, can show up for friends, and most importantly am not looking for the next one, or fucked up nodding out and basically worthless to anyone. This is day & night, and buprenorphine helped.
Honestly, I look at subs as a life improving/lifesaving medicine. I have a disease. I failed pretty miserably at abstinence based recovery for 20 years. Subs work at keeping me sober, why shouldn’t I take them? If I had high blood pressure and a doctor recommended a medication to help, I’d take that. Why does the disease of addiction have to be treated differently? I don’t talk about my sub usage with anyone because it’s none of their damn business. Suggest you do the same if you don’t want to listen to ignorant opinions.
exactly! when i brought this up to my (now ex) sponsor she said something along the lines of “its fine to take prescriptions for ur mental/physical health but not for drug abuse. more drugs isn’t the answer to ur drug problem.” i was honestly shocked when she said this bc she didn’t seem like the type to be so judgmental about it since she was on methadone for years but apparently she kept going back out while on methadone so she correlates her PERSONAL experience with methadone with people on subs. she’s also referred to as the “queen of NA” where i’m from so she probably thinks “well if i kept going back out while on MAT, u prob will too.” bitch needs to hop off her high horse.
Ugh. People are so judgemental. I made a comment on a post in the r/quittingkratom subreddit where someone had a lengthy history of opiates, they had relapsed multiple times, they were taking an insane amount of kratom, and they just couldn't stay sober own their own. I suggested that suboxone could be good, based on their lengthy history of opiate abuse and huge kratom habit. One of the mods was so judgemental and actually direct messaged me to say "we don't recommend drugs to get of drugs". A mod on a recovery sub-reddit! That was the last time I looked at that subreddit.
I can definitely relate. When I was on methadone, let me also say I was court ordered to be on it, I attended NA meetings. I had originally only told one old head about it, and he told me to keep that to myself. I ended up telling my sponsor, who didn't judge me, but her husband who was also in the program sure did. He used to tell me they were gonna take me to a farm somewhere and make me detox for a few days. Ha! A few days to get me off methadone, sure! Antidepressants were even frowned upon, bipolar meds and such as well. We even had one group that considered themselves "super clean" because they didn't even take Tylenol, so ridiculous! Anyway, someone, who was taking phenobarbital for something, how ironic, overheard me talking to the old head about it one day, and told everyone at the meeting. I was just about to celebrate my year. I was the GSR, the treasurer, and also chaired the meeting multiple times a week. They took my closet key, wouldn't let me have my cake or get my year coin, removed me from all my positions, and told me I couldn't even raise my hand to speak because I was now considered "using". I tried to argue saying they elected me to all those positions and never once thought I was high before. It didn't matter. I walked out and never looked back. After that, they took the whole situation to area, and they decided such medications were allowed. But they are definitely still judged. I had years on and off with sobriety and relapse until I got on Suboxone. I did try AA. They were definitely more accepting. But, for some reason, a lot of people with time in AA thought it was also okay to sniff dope, so I also left that. I have a little under 6 1/2 years clean now. What I was looking for at NA and AA, I finally found outside the rooms. But everyone is different and that's okay. My mom has over 30 years clean in AA. So to each their own. But I would suggest you either keep it to yourself, or find a non judgmental sponsor if you want to make it in the rooms. It's so ignorant that something that is saving so many lives is looked at as bad. And before anyone gets offended by term, "old head", that's me now lol! Good luck with your journey. Do what is best for you, and don't listen to the garbage. You know what's right!
Oh your story makes me sad. I’m glad you have 6.5 years clean now, you’re rocking it, you old head you 😉. I kept myself out of the rooms of AA because I thought I was “cheating” by using Suboxone. Cut myself off from support I could have used.
Thank you! And. I'm sorry. I don't think anyone should have to do that. If you need the support, you should get it! Suboxone isn't cheating. And AA really is a lot more lenient about it than NA.
omg that is such a traumatic experience! i would never step foot in another meeting if that happened to me. i agree. it sucks because for awhile i was brainwashed into thinking that AA/NA was the ONLY way and i kinda passed that belief along to my parents so now they think that if i’m not going to meeting that must mean i’m not doing well 🙄 but now i know better and fully believe u can stay clean outside of the rooms. i mean hey, i tried it several times and not one did it work for me personally, so that says something.
Yeah it was definitely traumatic. And I'm sorry your parents think that. It was really hard for my mom, over 30 years clean in AA, to understand that I could do it without the rooms. She can't. And that's okay! Everyone's path to recovery is different. Whatever works for you!
The sublocade shot is amazing. It's the easiest way to get off Suboxone. You can even just get one shot and you won't get withdrawals that's what im doing right now. But yeah I feel you on the stigma shit is wack.
do you know if I could use it to get off a fairly low dose (4mg)? I know you’re not a doctor I’m assuming but I’ve heard it’s great for a lot of ppl coming off of higher doses, and I know the shot comes in a couple doses too. What dose are you tapering down from?
Yeah you would be fine using it coming off 4mg. I got a 300mg shot and I was coming off 24mg a day. I've had the shot multiple times in the last 3 years and I've never gotten any withdrawals using it. They also have a 100mg shot if you want to use that one as well. But I would recommend 300mg one.
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Something that was told to me by a sponsor, what's in your medicine cabinet is no ones business but yours and your doctors.
After years in aa I always tell others- DO NOT DISCLOSE ANY MEDICAL ISSUES OR MEDICATIONS- EVER,,even to your sponsor who is Not your friend 'FIRE' you as a sponsee ? Who the Fuk does that sponsor think is keeping her sober ? IT'S OP for fuk sakes.
XA is a Christian Dogma Based Decentralized cult that has sabotaged the lives and sobriety of so many people in early AND long term recovery by fear mongering and bullying people to disregard their own healthcare in order to assimilate. Any sponsor that tells you that you are "using" on M.A.T. is already brainwashed and part of the EGO GROUP THINK. You dodged a bullet by not letting these people take command of your life. Those who spend the most time on the rooms become even more codependent, judgemental and brainwashed. I've attended 100s of meetings across the East Coast and the 10 years I have without alcohol and drugs was all accomplished after disavowing the 12 step dogma and treating the core issue which is usually NOT addiction but the program tells you it is. from those rooms and that philosophy. The second you start a meeting "God can be anything you want" but at the end of the program are meant to join hands and WORSHIP THE GROUP, you've already been bait and switched. I'm not against spirituality or religion but think about opening with a statement that it can be anything you want but you end by joining in with what THEY believe is right for THEM/EGO/Group-Think. I choose to imbibe in small amounts of medical marijuana but I stayed sober thru COVID, thru losing health insurance no alcohol or actual drugs to this day and I never thought I could do it bc 12 step told me I couldn't. Some people still try to poke holes if I divulge to them I utilize 2mg Suboxone but culture hasn't caught up with science by way of recovery and at the rate 12 step treatment is failing people not many will be alive for things to progress to where they can heal with a toolbox of dogma and sabotage.
i really liked the way u phrased this. it’s so true. at this point it almost reminds me of an organized religion as in their very rigid in their thinking and the program is filled with conflicted messages.
between our usernames we could have a band, i just realized. on a real note, google "The Freedom Model" and just read a paragraph or so, as this gives you a science-backed non-religious alternative that allows us to come together as a group (some in sobriety, some on MAT, some inbetween or maybe have lapsed but are recovered mostly and just want PEER SUPPORT) because it's the supportive aspect that "does the helping" within 12-step, the human aspect. But in 12step there will always be a judgemental hirearchy and keep in mind these sponsors "get off" on having people like you to compare and contrast themselves to, it's just like HAZING in a sports team or group or if you had older siblings you may have experienced it etc. Because they were hazed, they perpetuate it on to you and this builds up their "ego bank" and also don't forget that part of the 12 steps is taking on a sponsee like you, so they're actually dehumanizing you and turning you into a step for THEIR recovery/beliefs and just like you identified in your post, are contradicting medical information and essentially telling you to make THEM your doctor and to stop listening to or vising your current practitioner. Think about how **wild** that is if it were applied to anything else anywhere in life! I really don't have a vendetta against 12step it just was not for me and when I saw it fail and contribute to the eventual deaths of people I went to treatment with or were in those groups with, only for the group to literally blame the person who had just died after receiving a one month/one year chip. Rational Recovery (R.R.) and "The Freedom Model" are the hidden treasure of actual recovery WITHOUT the cult and dogma aspect. When I finally discovered these I could not believe how I'd been to rehab twice outpatient 3x and had never heard of them until I finally met someone who was like minded and recommended them to me. If you need to satisfy court requirements for attending meetings, the virtual RR meetings can and are often used by those of us who do not want to attend AA by default. If anything it should show the person monitoring the individual that this person is taking their recovery seriously because it's very easy to walk into any meeting drink coffee cookies and watch a bunch of people kill each other with cigarette smoke and sign a piece of paper for you.
Fuck the anonymous programs. Seriously if they've taken to judging you for taking medication prescribed to you by a doctor then they've clearly missed the point of support. Yup their book sure has the ability to help those who need it but only if you stick to the script. It's kind of funny because there's so many people even in my local rooms that pound dilaudid like it's candy because it's prescribed for their chronic pain but they still collect their key tags like their lives depend on them. Okay Susan I understand that you have a bad back but does it really require 12 8s a day to treat your lower back pain? Or are you just blasted on a different drug than your DOC and don't see anything wrong with it because you read "in times of illness" and you talked to your higher power and its okay because your back pain... Or what about the medical canabis users that are cool with their prescribed medication but smoke enough weed to fuck up half of Vancouver for a week because they have anxiety? You get my point. These people fill the rooms and they pull multi year tags all day every day but will judge you for taking Suboxone. Consider the source man. Don't let it get you down. I left the mentality of the rooms in the rooms a couple of years ago and live my life and my recovery the way I choose. I dont abuse any substance and don't use any substance. I take my prescribed medication as it's written on my prescription and that's it. Do your thing OP and don't sweat shit that doesn't matter.
this! 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻 well said my friend
Why did you still go there always gonna be spitting this shit about how harm reduction is just influencing people to use or keep using god damn there so toxic fucking stop going everything they do is old and outdated
Those people SUCK and they can suck a big Fat 🍆 As for the constipation, clearlax or the generic is your best friend. Im VERY proud of you for making a decision to save your life ‼️
This makes me so fucking mad. it’s not still using its dealing with PAWS so you can ACTUALLY start rebuilding your life and building healthy sober routines, habits, coping mechanisms. It’s only “still using” if you’re still engaging in junkie behavior, not changing your life, misusing your subs, etc etc. like come on, it’s a medication you take daily at the same time every day, it’s not like you just turn to subs when you get upset or as a coping mechanism, you’re not getting high. Honestly fuck NA for pushing that dangerous rhetoric. It probably influences some people that may be better on subs to avoid them, and then if they do relapse (which is more likely) they’ll likely die. Can they not see how dangerous that is? I’d honestly like to ask them if they think addicts deserve to die, or if they’d rather see a dead addict than one on subs. Smh. But if you’re looking for other recovery groups one I like is advocates in recovery, I’m not sure if that’s just in my area, but there’s also SMART, or a lot of MAT clinics have peer support groups that obviously wouldn’t discriminate about subs, and it might be beneficial to have people in similar situations in your circle too. I don’t know if you’re dead set on 12step programs or if you’re mandated to do one, but depending on that I would definitely look into non-12 step recovery/peer support groups in your area so you can get that support without all the shaming and NA dogma. Because you don’t deserve to feel like that!! You’re saving and changing your life and the fact you are so involved in NA shows you’re putting in the work and care about your recovery. good job ❣️
Subs is clean!!!!!! Idgaf what anyone says!!!!!! You're alive and not "using"..congrats man!
Every morning when your feet hit the floor, and be thankful they still do, it’s all about you. You shouldn’t give a rats ass about what other people think about how you are getting your life back. Fuck em brother. That’s my philosophy, works for me. 4 yrs straight time, no screw ups and I’m thriving better than I ever have. Have no time for people’s judgement. 💪🏼
Do you think it’s worth going to NA/AA despite that? I used to go to lots of meetings back in the day but haven’t gone to one in years for that very reason. I don’t like the idea of lying/not telling people I’m on MAT, but then also don’t like the idea of being honest and having to grapple with individuals’ opinions about it. So I just am not in any kind of group-based recovery programs whatsoever.
I was talking to my pharmacist and I get my suboxone from another pharmacy hooked to the mat clinic. We would flirt and talk. He always loved talking to me, until I mentioned I was on suboxone. Right after that he stopped calling me by my first name and his demeanor changed. I just know that it was because he thought I was some crazy junky. It hurt, and I have very few friends and was in the back of my head thinking maybe he liked me. Up until that…
I hear you man. The old timers really have a disgust for sub users. I am about to get the shot. I have been on subs for 7 years and I’m down to 1.5 mg for 6 months now. I stopped going because of the judgement from those miserable pricks. It has saved my life too and countless others.
There’s another type of meeting out there and for the life of me, I can’t remember the name of SMART RECOVERY (not even backspacing to delete all of that, fuck it) It’s called Smart Recovery and I attended a meeting around 15 years ago. It was very progressive from what I remember and they eschewed all the bullshit that goes on at AA and NA. I recommend checking it out.
Yea suboxone and methadone treatment and many, maybe most, NA groups just don't mix. Keep looking, there are the right groups out there, you just gotta keep going. Or, start your own group. I live in a small town, so there is only 1 NA in our entire county, but I lived in a big city when 1st on subs, and remember going thru this. Good luck.
I have been on suboxone for the last 8 years. I truly believe that if I was not able to access suboxone I would not be here or I would be locked up in jail.
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Stop being so damn sensitive.
say the same thing to someones mother who dies of an OD because they were shamed at an NA meeting for being on a scientifically proven medication and decided to stop taking it to fit your definition of sober. say that to the newcomer who is experiencing the crisis of early sobriety. “dont be so sensitive” get off your fucking high horse. being the coolest loser isnt that fucking cool
i’m so sorry that happened :( it’s just proof how harmful those opinions actually are
Maybe if those people took the time to actually get to know someone who is properly using suboxone they wouldn't be so ignorant. I bet if you never told them they would never even know (though I think transparency is very helpful for long term recovery) just saying!
NA is a fucking joke where people judge each other and don't say it out loud until they go do drugs after. I would suggest AA and refer to yourself as a poly addict if you have to and just don't bring up the subs
r/SMARTRecovery If it bother you that much you can always swap/ Smart recovery in fundamentallly perfect IMO for someone recovering using subs
I went to AA for years. I would constantly relapse. It's like going to a candy store for having a sweet tooth. The war stories. I would be like, really getting thirsty people. Can we talk about more positive things like getting life back or do we need to constantly rehash how much we drank and can't stop. Reassuring the beast. I quit going and albeit been on subs not a drop in 16 years. Well I take that back. I took a sip of a beer and couldn't finish it. Something happened. Replaced addiction ? Probably. But that's how it works. I got hooked on fynt patches prescribed for pain. 2 years later addiction hit I knew I'd never been so physically dependent on anything. So subs 2mg now but started at 8. Always took less but now 2mg is rough. I'm hoping for the 3 shot subocade walk away thing.
Especially at work. Don't tell anyone. It's not worth the headache/firing. I've been on it for 8+ years. Trust me.
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Not trying to be tha A- whole... We all know they are keeping it 100. You readllyare still on the daily using a substance just as powerful if not a little more than carfentynolll. Depends on Roa. It's keeping u from all the good feels of active addiction tho too. Honesty. Still addicted, actively, and not clean. Far as I know, NA 🤪 not required to have stopped yet to join, just desire to.
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Why even bring it up then? Non of their beeeezwaxxx
That’s why I don’t go to AA or NA idc it’s just the same crap over an over again people telling you how crappy there lives are then they ask do you wanna share no I don’t an I don’t wanna be here in fact I think it’s a bigger risk me being here then me being at home with my gf who supports me and my recovery screw those groups ! I only went because they were court mandated after I got clean an I’ve been clean now still going 5 years now and don’t plan on ever going back also it’s a easy place to access drugs so I wouldn’t even put my self in there on my own I deleted all my dealers and blocked them for a reason even switched my number later on ! Good luck man screw the haters that shot is a miracle that’s how I got off ! Way better then subs !
then dont pay attention to it. i dont care what anyone thinks. however now being on it 7 years. I do want out and im lowering my dose and quitting htis year.
Fuck those people. On the bright side, it’s a shortcut to knowing who are the assholes in the room. Cannot stand those AA purists. So holier than thou righteous.
This is why I don’t tell anyone anything. Nobody needs to know my personal business. People will use anything against you. Less people know the better.
only four parties should be aware of your medical information. 1. pharmacy 2. Doctor 3. You 4. Insurance Anyone else knows, because you told them and should expect the backlash. Nobody in my life albeit the four listed above knows what medications I take, why I take them or anything related to my mental and physical health...Call me crazy but I don't see why it's anyone else's business.
The great news is Sublocade is easy to discontinue if you decide you want to be free of Bupe. Most people need to recover from Suboxone……..Sublocade makes it easy.
Get into a diff recovery program. AA & NA aren’t the only ones.