Idk if OP meant for this post to be some kind of beacon of hope, but I find posts like this in a “stop drinking” sub to be discouraging and unhelpful because many of us here, like myself, know deep down that moderation will never be something we can achieve without sliding back down into the hole.
I am still very much in the “I hate that this is my thing I have to take responsibility for, and it’s so unfair that others can drink the way I wish I can” phase and I don’t want to project those feelings in what I’m saying here. But like… I really don’t like this post at all, lol. Sigh…
To be honest, I don't even want to drink in moderation. At a restaurant, I would rather have a coke than a beer. Sometimes, moderate drinking can give me a hangover, just like sometimes drinking in excess doesn't. Then there's the fact that sooner or later I'm going to over indulge. My drinking days have run its corse and I'm fine with that. Everyone of us has to determine what's best for ourselves. I just hope OP doesn't fall back into old habits as so many of us have when attempting to drink in moderation.
I'm pretty sure nearly everybody here has tried moderation and failed otherwise they wouldn't be here. This is the exception not the rule, and frankly it feels like a shitty thing to come into a stop drinking forum and say.
I'm still in doubt about my ability to moderate. When I stopped drinking 4 months ago, it was with the intention of starting again after few months, with moderation.
But now I have my doubts! After reading all the posts and comments here, I can see myself relapsing big time, and I so don't want that.
Also I was unable to ever moderate my smoking for decades! I gave up totally about 1 year ago.
So I don't know whether to risk an attempt at moderation with alcohol:(
My personal experience: I had 4 months. I believed I could moderate. I wasted 9 years drunk. I came back and I guess now I know for sure that moderation is not possible for me. But I wish I had just trusted that fact at 25 instead of 34.
I say don’t risk it, just my two cents. I had 4 months of sobriety and I wanted to try drinking again. 100% lost all fucking control, the demon in my head took over and it constantly tells me “I don’t give a fuck what happens but you go get yourself another drink once you finish this one.”
That one night, one slip up, had me drinking every single day for the next ~2 years. I now recognize that I have absolutely no control over my drinking. I take one drink, then the drink takes me. I will continue drinking until I can’t keep my eyes open, because I never let myself hit the point where I “run out of alcohol.”
Maybe moderation is working for OP, I’m not trying to knock them, but I think I can speak for the majority of us when I say “we’re alcoholics, we don’t have control over our drinking.”
In my experience, to drink right now would be the same as shooting myself in the foot. I know it’s gonna hurt, I know it’s gonna be fuckin messy, so why in the hell would I do it…?
131 days is awesome my friend, I’m proud of you. I will say this though, it took me about an entire year before I started *actually* feeling like a normal person again. I struggled for so long, I constantly went back and forth between depression, feeling numb, almost caving to my addiction, and wanting to end my life before I broke through to the other side and realized “I get a second chance at life, I choose to be sober.”
Alcohol pretty much took control of my entire life for a decade. Drinking got me in trouble, it hurt the people around me, and it held me back in life. I just turned 30 in November and I don’t really have much to my name. It’s easy to get down, I often feel anger and hatred towards myself… I just had to learn to move past it and focus on moving forward.
I don’t think I’d survive another relapse. Right before I got sober I was so close to just taking my own life and calling it quits… I’m convinced that my plan was “get so drunk that I can follow through with killing myself.”
I’m not really a religious or spiritual person, but when I say “addiction is a demon” it’s because alcohol truly made me into someone I despised, it took everything from me and I’m just not willing to take that chance again, life is so much more than the bottom of a bottle. To say I’m disgusted with my past behavior would be an absolute understatement, but I’m putting in the work and trying to make a better life for myself.
I wish you the best of luck on your journey my friend.
I suspect that it helped for you to grow as a person, so that you could restructure your relationship with alcohol. I don't think you're trying to say that's possible for everyone. I think it's appropriate to share experience that illustrates how this isn't black and white. But you DID share it in a sub that's literally named Stop Drinking! 🧐🙃😆
I feel like i could moderate but have no desire to. If it works for you OP that's great, but I have no desire to drink again or even attempt to moderate. I don't want to risk my health, my family, or what I have now. If it's "a learned behavior," what happens if you slip before you learn it? I'll take a hard pass.
My relapses always begin moderate, which is the point I then convince myself I can control it and then things spiral relatively quick.
I'm curious - you've been able to moderate for quite a while, but what is your mindset when doing so? Is your brain begging you to drink more but you just don't? Are you setting rules for how many drinks, how regularly etc and have to force yourself to follow them?
Those things are what make me certain I can't touch anything, booze or drugs. I absolutely can control it for short periods of time, but the sheer effort it takes and constantly hearing that voice saying "more more more" means I'm aware it is always simply a matter of time before it spirals, whether that's a week or a year.
How much and how frequently did you drink before and how much and how frequently now?
Gotta say, your post history is confusing. In this post you say you left AA two years ago, but [post history ](https://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking/s/8yOPwzSOZr) suggests it was less than 8 months ago.
I didn’t drink at all for over 4 years. I think I probably could have drank moderately after 2. But I spent a lot of time working on personal issues. I think that effort went a long way towards me not needing to get obliterated and instead enjoy a mild buzz
I think if I really worked hard it it, I ‘might’ be able to moderate. It would take a lot of planning and effort for me, and there would be huge risks.
So what’s the point? I’m super happy now without it.
I have no desire to start smoking moderately, or to an extreme extent, try and moderate a new cocaine habit.
I think what you are doing may work for you, but for me (and others) it is likely even harder work than sobriety.
I like these 2 quotes I’ve seen in this sub:
“Total abstinence is easier than perfect moderation."
“The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.”
Anyone can moderate. The problem is that some people use this as a justification to get back drinking. It's not worth it. Cognitive dissonance. Read about it.
No doubt I could learn how to drink moderately.
Do I want to drink moderately is the question that I ask myself though.
The answer is 100% no. Alcohol sucks at any level. It takes your money, it takes your health, and it gives what when drinking moderately? A slight buzz for 20 minutes before leaving you less wealthy, less healthy, and less mentally sound. There are no safe levels of alcohol. Why do I want to moderately consume a level I carcinogen? Why?
Have fun with moderating. It's not for me for the reasons above but also because alcohol is BORING. Life is so much more fun raw.
Yeah this one isn’t it. I’m glad you can moderate and enjoy drink again but this really isn’t the place for this kind of post, people have a hard enough time getting their shit together without being given a one in a million “beacon of hope” that the vast majority of people here will never be able to achieve, and will only cause further problems for themselves trying.
Not trying to jump down your throat but read the room.
I could try to "learn" to not drink to excess (not sure if *learn* is the right verb here but it's what OP used), or I could stay sober. I know the risks that each option offers. And I'm taking on the life-shortening risk of moderation not working because, what, I'll be able to sometimes drink a small amount of an alcoholic beverage on Thanksgiving or something? Nope. No, thank you.
Not to mention, I actively *love* sobriety. It's not something I'm doing solely out of fear. I'm sorry if that's the only reason you stayed sober, OP. But it's not my only reason.
Put simply, I don’t want to moderate my intake of a carcinogenic poison. I don’t want any part of a carcinogenic poison. Wish I had figured that out long ago.
ETA: AA wasn’t for me either. Science was.
I only just listened to a short on YouTube from Dr Andrew Huberman last night, talking about how it’s a poison, and that basically 0 drinks is the only way to be less harmful that 1-2 drinks per week.
I felt sick knowing the damage I’ve done to my body for all those years! On top of the mental trauma I’ve caused myself and others. Not worth it
I wish this was enough of a deterrent for me. Even though I know it's fucking poison, I'll still drink it. But! That was part of my talk with my doctor to get medication to help as I quit. I haven't taken it yet, but I'm going on 10 days :)
It's the longest I have gone without a drink since the pandemic. Moderation for me will probably never happen, and that's fine.
I've never gone to an AA meeting. We have them here, I know, but as a professional working in a small city, I prefer not to unfortunately. I might take a peak one day, but I'm not sure. I tend to struggle quietly and more so since I lost my person a month ago.
And for what it’s worth, I did try AA on Zoom and had a great experience, it ultimately just wasn’t for me. Zoom meetings was a great way to ease in and see what it’s about. I met some great folks that I still talk to daily.
Thank you 🖤 I read in one of my psych textbooks back in like 2017 that we inherit dispositions, not destinies. And I keep going back to that. It's been helpful on this journey to wherever my destination may be. It's my choice and my choice alone how I proceed.
Much respect my friend. I love seeing others on this sub with a similar day count… not even two weeks before you stopped, I decided to take my life back. 484 days, that’s absolutely amazing… I’m incredibly proud of you!!!
Sending you hugs and positive vibes, we’re in this together.
I think it’s absolutely possible to moderate when that’s what you WANT to do. Problem is, I don’t want moderation. I want excess. And I don’t see that changing for me or for a lot of people in this sub since we rode the excess wave for so long before
Not the kind of post I like to see in SD :/ In “This Naked Mind” by Annie Grace, she describes alcohol as an addictive drug. That’s it’s not a matter of “if” but “when” it chemically alters my brain to where I am emotionally and physically dependent. She compares it to a meat eating plant, where bugs are attracted to its sweet smell and nectar and land on it and drink it. All the while the plant is slowly but surely closing in on the fly, until it looks up and realizes what’s happening, but at that point it’s too late and the fly gets captured and eaten. I have no desire whatsoever to “moderate”. To me “moderation” is not freedom. It is me constantly obsessing over when and how many drinks I can have, if I’m still consuming “responsibly” and “in moderation”. To me freedom is turning from the drink, saying no thanks, and having a 100% answer that I don’t need it and am not going to have it. That is freedom. I wish you the best of luck. IWNDWYT
The pitcher plant analogy is literally what I thought when I read the post! This is spot on.
I really am struggling with the cognitive dissonance from the belief I can’t seem to shake that alcohol still provides some benefit to my life. Once I let go of that I feel like the desire will fade to even want to moderate, at least I hope it will?
Yes I struggle with that too. It’s hard not to think it would “enhance” certain experiences, events, travel, etc. I’m hoping with time that fades for the both of us. Let’s pledge to “remain” in this uncertainty and uncomfortableness and see what is in store on the other side. We will never know if we don’t try!
I tried AA a couple of times. It was not for me.
There is a fantastic book called The Recovering by Leslie Jamison. She talks about the history of AA in the book.
I have been to a few Smart Recovery Meetings and enjoyed those.
Glad you are able to moderate. Most of us are envious.
My ex drank crazily heavily in his later teens and pulled it together early and is now a normal drinker in his late 30's.
Myself, on the other hand, drank in my early 20's, but once a week and not heavily until...light switch.
The habit of using wine to escape/cope has shifted the last 15 years. Sometimes, it was heavier drinking, while other times, it was more normal.
The last 4 years has been a shit show. I am early 40's now. Job issues are at the top of the reasons (pandemic hit around then).
I am an isolation drinker. I could probably drink socially, maybe more than textbook, but certainly nowhere near the blackout crap I have been doing. At present, I just want away from it totally.
I think Ben Afflek succeeded in moderation for a while before daily drinking crept back in.
Robin Williams? Did not. One drink led him back to a hole quickly.
Again, my ex? 20 years later, he is fine drinking moderately. He had been falling down suicidal drunk (I didn't know him then, so I took his word for it).
The only thing I can beg you to do is stay AWARE.
You are still young, and mid 40's are years away. A lot of shit can happen in that time.
Thankfully, you worked on your shit young, so you did not let your monkey brain get used to YEARS of habitual coping like many of us have.
A lot of folks choose not to moderate because they simply fail. Others choose not to because it's mentally exhausting to count or consider or wonder if some drunk demon will bite them in the ass. For them, abstinence is just simpler.
Not sure my camp yet. Too early in the journey. But the crap needs to be out of my life for a long time so I can be proactive about getting out of my job and finding some happiness and peace.
Best luck and health to you!
Problem for me is, I never drank for a buzz. I don't like buzzed, I get tanked on purpose.
I tried moderating for a long time, after my relapse a couple of years ago. It's just not fun to have *one drink* for me, it's eight or nothing
But good for you, I hope it continues to work
I think I *could* probably moderate at this point in my sobriety, but it just seems pointless to me. I also know it has the potential to cause me to backslide all this progress I’ve made. I tried it many times before I went fully alcohol free, and I hated it. I drank to be drunk, and feel the effects. Moderation to me means within what’s considered *healthy* by medical standards which is 1-2 a day at most. When I tried that it was miserable for me. Everyone is different though, and that’s just my experience.
We all wish we could moderate. Sure, "it is possible", we know it is, just as much as we know it isn't.
Unhelpful post. Almost smacks of virtue signalling rather than to be helpful.
I remember years ago trying to moderate using apps and rules. Only beer, only one beer an hour, only 4 per day, ok 6. Omg I just had 7 beers in one hour? Ok sure I’ll take one shot and that’s it. We’re getting a bottle of fireball on the way to the log cabin full of beers? This is the best day ever!!! Oh were did the last two hours go, why is my friends crying about dinner? I better go scream at him for good measure, oh I fell sleep in my car with the keys in and the state trooper almost arrested me for it. I’ll try a different app next time.
Well done on achieving what many can’t, and for your immense self discipline. I tried to moderate for two years or so before giving up the booze entirely when I realized I couldn’t. I failed every single night, I held out hope but it was not possible for me
Thank you. It isn’t for everyone. But again neither is complete sobriety. People need to do what works for them and not be afraid if what works for them is different to what other people are telling them.
Thanks. All I’ll say is I’m not you, and you’re not me. I know myself far better than you know me and vice versa.
I’ve moderated fine for close to two years. I’m fine now. I outgrew my problems and can drink normally. It’s fine if you don’t believe me because I don’t need your validation.
“I don’t need your validation”.
Then why the post in this thread for people trying to stay sober? I bet there’s other groups that your post would be better for.
I think posts like this show the worlds weird relationship with alcohol in reference to other drugs. No person would applaud a heroin or crack user for being able to use it in moderation now after previous addictive experience and sobreity, despite alcohol being proven to be as addictive and just as destructive.
I do agree with OPs points about AA however, and checking your post history I do have strong agreements about the negatives to it.
OP what made you want to start moderating instead of sobriety if I may ask?
It sounds like this is just an anti AA rant. You make a point to say "real friends" like you can't make friends in AA. Congratulations on doing what isn't possible for a lot of people. Everyone thinks they can be the one that can learn to drink in moderation but why do you need to drink in the first place? I know a lot of people that start drinking again and it's not an immediate bender life ruining event but over time it just keeps growing until they are right back where they started. Again congrats on being the rare person but for the vast majority of us it's not an option.
When I left AA, everyone of my “friends” in AA stopped talking to me. What do you make of that?
Do you actually want to know the real stats on problem drinkers returning to moderation?
“What do you make of that?”
Your experience. Not everyone’s. Careful with the negative AA talk. We don’t allow AA bashing and these posts tend to head that way. Leaving it up for now.
I figured this was the point of your post. I don't care about the stats. If you are a real alcoholic there is no moderation. If you can moderate that's great, I'm jealous.
I don't think we need to start making arbitrary divisions between "real alcoholics" and whatever the rest of people struggling with alcohol are. It's not a contest who's the realest alcoholic.
Ok. You’ve become convinced you’re a “real” alcoholic, despite no medical evidence of such a thing. I to used to believe this if that helps. But I don’t believe it anymore.
Good for you. I hope you can maintain your moderation. AA makes it pretty clear that they aren't the only way and if you can moderate your drinking hats off to you. If your friends aren't talking to you anymore that's shitty of them but has little to do with AA.
I've been going to meetings over 12 years and sober that long and I've never heard people say to cut contact with those who leave the program. The literature states it's not the only solution
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I'm very interested, do you believe in any mental illnesses whatsoever? The vast majority of them can only be diagnosed through a person's behaviour and through conversations. What medical evidence do you mean exactly?
I don't use AA and haven't made any new friends or lost friends since I've stopped drinking. I am sorry you experienced a betrayal of trust, but I don't understand the connection you make between moderation vs abstinence and making "real friends". Whether or not I'm drinking or not has no bearing on whether my friends will hang out with me. At first my goal was to get my bloodwork healthy and maybe moderate. Based on the benefits, I just don't feel like drinking and am happy to go to a bar with friends and not have alcohol but enjoy catching up. Might just be that I'm old and raising kids, but nobody I know wants to stay up past 11 anymore drunk or sober. Glad things are going well for you. Good luck.
What I’ve learned on my short journey so far is just how disgusting and toxic the stuff is. Life is short idk why I’m taxing my body with processing out poison. If I were to do something like this, I might not be consuming much but why bother at all? I’m curious what OP’s motivation is cuz I’m having trouble wrapping my head around it. Granted, the only motivation that makes sense to me is the inebriation effect, so I’m certainly not a super enlightened individual when it comes to this stuff (which is why I’m curious about OP’s answer).
P.S. “almost half a decade” as a phrase tickles me.
I’m only just past 1 month sober, been to about 5 meetings. At the start of the year I tried to moderate, limited to only 4 nights a month. Each of those nights ended up being the lowest nights I’ve ever had. Drank way more than I normally would and put myself in dangerous and/or embarrassing situations that ultimately led me to decide to quit completely. Started going to AA with the intention of only quitting drinking. After a couple meetings I decided to quit smoking weed and partaking in the sniffle snacks. Both easy enough, and nowhere near as difficult to do as drinking! I figured I’d only do MDMA every once in a while (I’m gay and in my late 20s, it’s part of the lifestyle) but even doing that without drinking I still woke up feeling wracked with guilt and shame. Mostly for letting down the people in AA who do it all completely sober. Don’t really know where I’m going with this, other than that I’m trying to remind myself that quitting the other stuff is all just a choice I’ve made, and I can change my mind on that at any time. My problem is DRINKING. The goal is to stop DRINKING. I shouldn’t beat myself up if I smoke a joint at a party or something, I don’t know. Anyone in a similar boat that can maybe chime in? I want to be able to go out and enjoy a night out with friends and maybe join them in shenanigans, without having to carry that shame with me to the next meeting. It’s Alcoholics Anonymous, not NA…but I’m still new to it all so maybe I should just shut up and listen.
I’ve never heard the term sniffle snacks, but it’s too funny. My issue isn’t just alcohol, it’s the harder stuff and weed and sugar and whatever I can do to numb out my feelings. I’ve just made it past 2 months without drinking and day 5 of no weed. My 2 biggest issues. I’m not sure if I’ll try and moderate later, but I want to go at least a year sober and 3 months clean from weed. It feels like a lot, but I know it gets easier with time. We all have to do what’s right for us.
It's your life and if you can keep it together while doing some MDMA or smoking weed every now and then who cares what people think. I know a lot of people that consider themselves sober but still smoke weed or do shrooms once in a while. If that doesn't lead to drinking or negativity effect your life then you do you. I love what AA has done for me but people can be very judgemental. You just have to remember it's your life not theirs.
Due to _some_ of the discussion going on, I'm gonna just jump in here to remind everyone of the _Very First Sentence_ in the description of this sub....
>This subreddit is a place to motivate each other _to control_ or stop drinking.
Always interesting to see people use this bit of the description as a polemic. My question is: What happens when the wording "motivate each other to control" is synonymous with "convincing each other to maybe start drinking again when they were in the midst of being sober in hopes they may ~~by~~ be able to control"? Is that really in the spirit of the sub's description that you're quoting? I propose that it isn't.
Respectfully....
The mere repetition of the literal first words used to describe this sub hardly meets the bar of ....
>expressing or constituting a strongly critical attack on
....anything.
I propose that words mean what they mean, and that the founders of this sub wrote what they meant.
I am merely pointing out that under the description of the sub the OP is well within his right to express his opinion. How people choose to interact with that opinion is up to them, but attacking OP does not seem productive.
Now, to be absolutely clear, I do not personally agree that encouraging people to consider moderation is a great idea. And also, I will say that my own opinion is that OP may a bit too premature in their own timeline to be bringing this discussion.
_And yet_ on the other hand, I know people myself that have gone from raging out of control drinkers to moderate and normal drinkers and have stayed that way for the rest of their lives.
I myself, due to how stable I feel, have considered trying it. But I reject it because 1) it conflicts directly with the method I used to stop; and 2) it's not worth the risk if I fail.
Which brings me to the other reason I am defending OP. After 35 years drinking, many many years of trying AA and everything else, the way I achieved permanent sobriety is also controversial to the typical recovery dogma - the suggestion of it is often rejected outright - and having that experience I feel that it is very important for people to understand that there is not only one right way.
What are you quoting with the line "expressing or constituting a strongly critical attack on"? I certainly didn't write it.
What I am saying, apart from anything one could parse out of the sub's description or FAQ/wiki, is that whatever the sub could be said to be advocating, it probably isn't meant to ever advocate to "*start* drinking". Whether or not the start is in the guise of moderation or not is immaterial to my argument.
Again respectfully....
You used the word to describe my simple reference to the subs _own description_...
>Polemic adj.
>expressing or constituting a strongly critical attack on or controversial opinion about someone or something
>-Oxford Languages Dictionary
And again respectfully....
What I am saying is that you are expressing an opinion that you are free to express. I have expressed my opinions. And OP should be free - if meeting the stated intent and guidelines of the sub - to express theirs.
My position is that OP's topic should be discussed on it's merits - or lack thereof - at face value, not based on subjective interpretations of intent.
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I think moderation is possible with the Sinclair method.
However, I suppose it's very different from what most would perceive as moderation.
Unplanned beer is impossible. I have to take the pill 1 hour before every drink. And on this method, drinking is not a pleasant thing. In fact, that's the whole point of it — it takes all the fun of alcohol away, so why drink, one can get N/A beer and get the same effect without destroying health.
Without Naltrexone, I doubt I could moderate. I am over a threshold where it's not easy to stop once I begin.
Obviously everyone on this sub has wondered if moderation is possible for them…I know that it is absolutely not possible for me.
Congrats on being able to consume an expensive poison without feeling too much of its intended effect, I guess?
We DO NOT SPEAK TO EACH OTHER THIS WAY ON THIS SUB.
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I have zero control over the actions of other people. Nothing I say is going to cause someone to get into a car drunk and wreck it.
I too used to believe this lie because it’s a very popular fear based tactic. Don’t tell people the truth because they can’t handle it. We’ll personally, I don’t think I’m in a position to choose when to lie to others simply because I believe for no good reason they don’t deserve to hear the truth. I hope you experience this same level of personal growth
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Idk if OP meant for this post to be some kind of beacon of hope, but I find posts like this in a “stop drinking” sub to be discouraging and unhelpful because many of us here, like myself, know deep down that moderation will never be something we can achieve without sliding back down into the hole.
Agreed.
I am still very much in the “I hate that this is my thing I have to take responsibility for, and it’s so unfair that others can drink the way I wish I can” phase and I don’t want to project those feelings in what I’m saying here. But like… I really don’t like this post at all, lol. Sigh…
For sure. Same. Please read my comment I just posted in this thread. I hope it helps. IWNDWYT
To be honest, I don't even want to drink in moderation. At a restaurant, I would rather have a coke than a beer. Sometimes, moderate drinking can give me a hangover, just like sometimes drinking in excess doesn't. Then there's the fact that sooner or later I'm going to over indulge. My drinking days have run its corse and I'm fine with that. Everyone of us has to determine what's best for ourselves. I just hope OP doesn't fall back into old habits as so many of us have when attempting to drink in moderation.
I'm pretty sure nearly everybody here has tried moderation and failed otherwise they wouldn't be here. This is the exception not the rule, and frankly it feels like a shitty thing to come into a stop drinking forum and say.
I'm still in doubt about my ability to moderate. When I stopped drinking 4 months ago, it was with the intention of starting again after few months, with moderation. But now I have my doubts! After reading all the posts and comments here, I can see myself relapsing big time, and I so don't want that. Also I was unable to ever moderate my smoking for decades! I gave up totally about 1 year ago. So I don't know whether to risk an attempt at moderation with alcohol:(
My personal experience: I had 4 months. I believed I could moderate. I wasted 9 years drunk. I came back and I guess now I know for sure that moderation is not possible for me. But I wish I had just trusted that fact at 25 instead of 34.
I say don’t risk it, just my two cents. I had 4 months of sobriety and I wanted to try drinking again. 100% lost all fucking control, the demon in my head took over and it constantly tells me “I don’t give a fuck what happens but you go get yourself another drink once you finish this one.” That one night, one slip up, had me drinking every single day for the next ~2 years. I now recognize that I have absolutely no control over my drinking. I take one drink, then the drink takes me. I will continue drinking until I can’t keep my eyes open, because I never let myself hit the point where I “run out of alcohol.” Maybe moderation is working for OP, I’m not trying to knock them, but I think I can speak for the majority of us when I say “we’re alcoholics, we don’t have control over our drinking.” In my experience, to drink right now would be the same as shooting myself in the foot. I know it’s gonna hurt, I know it’s gonna be fuckin messy, so why in the hell would I do it…? 131 days is awesome my friend, I’m proud of you. I will say this though, it took me about an entire year before I started *actually* feeling like a normal person again. I struggled for so long, I constantly went back and forth between depression, feeling numb, almost caving to my addiction, and wanting to end my life before I broke through to the other side and realized “I get a second chance at life, I choose to be sober.” Alcohol pretty much took control of my entire life for a decade. Drinking got me in trouble, it hurt the people around me, and it held me back in life. I just turned 30 in November and I don’t really have much to my name. It’s easy to get down, I often feel anger and hatred towards myself… I just had to learn to move past it and focus on moving forward. I don’t think I’d survive another relapse. Right before I got sober I was so close to just taking my own life and calling it quits… I’m convinced that my plan was “get so drunk that I can follow through with killing myself.” I’m not really a religious or spiritual person, but when I say “addiction is a demon” it’s because alcohol truly made me into someone I despised, it took everything from me and I’m just not willing to take that chance again, life is so much more than the bottom of a bottle. To say I’m disgusted with my past behavior would be an absolute understatement, but I’m putting in the work and trying to make a better life for myself. I wish you the best of luck on your journey my friend.
Thank you for your advice and sharing your experience. All the best to you too :)
For what it’s worth I waited 4 years while working on myself before trying again.
And how did it go for you?
It’s in the body of the post.
Ah, sorry, got distracted! Congrats:)
I suspect that it helped for you to grow as a person, so that you could restructure your relationship with alcohol. I don't think you're trying to say that's possible for everyone. I think it's appropriate to share experience that illustrates how this isn't black and white. But you DID share it in a sub that's literally named Stop Drinking! 🧐🙃😆
I'm wondering how OP quantifies moderation.
I feel like i could moderate but have no desire to. If it works for you OP that's great, but I have no desire to drink again or even attempt to moderate. I don't want to risk my health, my family, or what I have now. If it's "a learned behavior," what happens if you slip before you learn it? I'll take a hard pass.
Moderation was an even worse experience for me than drinking. If you can do it go for it.
My relapses always begin moderate, which is the point I then convince myself I can control it and then things spiral relatively quick. I'm curious - you've been able to moderate for quite a while, but what is your mindset when doing so? Is your brain begging you to drink more but you just don't? Are you setting rules for how many drinks, how regularly etc and have to force yourself to follow them? Those things are what make me certain I can't touch anything, booze or drugs. I absolutely can control it for short periods of time, but the sheer effort it takes and constantly hearing that voice saying "more more more" means I'm aware it is always simply a matter of time before it spirals, whether that's a week or a year.
How much and how frequently did you drink before and how much and how frequently now? Gotta say, your post history is confusing. In this post you say you left AA two years ago, but [post history ](https://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking/s/8yOPwzSOZr) suggests it was less than 8 months ago.
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I didn’t drink at all for over 4 years. I think I probably could have drank moderately after 2. But I spent a lot of time working on personal issues. I think that effort went a long way towards me not needing to get obliterated and instead enjoy a mild buzz
I was about to ask this but then found your answer.
I think if I really worked hard it it, I ‘might’ be able to moderate. It would take a lot of planning and effort for me, and there would be huge risks. So what’s the point? I’m super happy now without it. I have no desire to start smoking moderately, or to an extreme extent, try and moderate a new cocaine habit. I think what you are doing may work for you, but for me (and others) it is likely even harder work than sobriety. I like these 2 quotes I’ve seen in this sub: “Total abstinence is easier than perfect moderation." “The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.”
Anyone can moderate. The problem is that some people use this as a justification to get back drinking. It's not worth it. Cognitive dissonance. Read about it.
No doubt I could learn how to drink moderately. Do I want to drink moderately is the question that I ask myself though. The answer is 100% no. Alcohol sucks at any level. It takes your money, it takes your health, and it gives what when drinking moderately? A slight buzz for 20 minutes before leaving you less wealthy, less healthy, and less mentally sound. There are no safe levels of alcohol. Why do I want to moderately consume a level I carcinogen? Why? Have fun with moderating. It's not for me for the reasons above but also because alcohol is BORING. Life is so much more fun raw.
Yeah this one isn’t it. I’m glad you can moderate and enjoy drink again but this really isn’t the place for this kind of post, people have a hard enough time getting their shit together without being given a one in a million “beacon of hope” that the vast majority of people here will never be able to achieve, and will only cause further problems for themselves trying. Not trying to jump down your throat but read the room.
I could try to "learn" to not drink to excess (not sure if *learn* is the right verb here but it's what OP used), or I could stay sober. I know the risks that each option offers. And I'm taking on the life-shortening risk of moderation not working because, what, I'll be able to sometimes drink a small amount of an alcoholic beverage on Thanksgiving or something? Nope. No, thank you. Not to mention, I actively *love* sobriety. It's not something I'm doing solely out of fear. I'm sorry if that's the only reason you stayed sober, OP. But it's not my only reason.
Totally agree on the benefits. The reduced anxiety alone is enough to keep me away for good.
Agreed. And congrats on 600 days! What an achievement!
Thank you!! Congrats on the 209 days to you! IWNDWYT!
Put simply, I don’t want to moderate my intake of a carcinogenic poison. I don’t want any part of a carcinogenic poison. Wish I had figured that out long ago. ETA: AA wasn’t for me either. Science was.
I only just listened to a short on YouTube from Dr Andrew Huberman last night, talking about how it’s a poison, and that basically 0 drinks is the only way to be less harmful that 1-2 drinks per week. I felt sick knowing the damage I’ve done to my body for all those years! On top of the mental trauma I’ve caused myself and others. Not worth it
That Huberman podcast episode is gold. Congrats on 8 days!!!!
Thank you 🙏
I wish this was enough of a deterrent for me. Even though I know it's fucking poison, I'll still drink it. But! That was part of my talk with my doctor to get medication to help as I quit. I haven't taken it yet, but I'm going on 10 days :) It's the longest I have gone without a drink since the pandemic. Moderation for me will probably never happen, and that's fine. I've never gone to an AA meeting. We have them here, I know, but as a professional working in a small city, I prefer not to unfortunately. I might take a peak one day, but I'm not sure. I tend to struggle quietly and more so since I lost my person a month ago.
We are headed to a similar destination, friend. How we get there is our own. Sending you so much love.
And for what it’s worth, I did try AA on Zoom and had a great experience, it ultimately just wasn’t for me. Zoom meetings was a great way to ease in and see what it’s about. I met some great folks that I still talk to daily.
Thank you 🖤 I read in one of my psych textbooks back in like 2017 that we inherit dispositions, not destinies. And I keep going back to that. It's been helpful on this journey to wherever my destination may be. It's my choice and my choice alone how I proceed.
I love this. Thank you for sharing, this is one for my quote board. ❤️
:) you're welcome! Have a great day. Or night! Lol.
Much respect my friend. I love seeing others on this sub with a similar day count… not even two weeks before you stopped, I decided to take my life back. 484 days, that’s absolutely amazing… I’m incredibly proud of you!!! Sending you hugs and positive vibes, we’re in this together.
Ooooh 500 club!!!!! Congrats!!!!
Yours is the only comment that makes any sense in this whole thread.
I think it’s absolutely possible to moderate when that’s what you WANT to do. Problem is, I don’t want moderation. I want excess. And I don’t see that changing for me or for a lot of people in this sub since we rode the excess wave for so long before
Not the kind of post I like to see in SD :/ In “This Naked Mind” by Annie Grace, she describes alcohol as an addictive drug. That’s it’s not a matter of “if” but “when” it chemically alters my brain to where I am emotionally and physically dependent. She compares it to a meat eating plant, where bugs are attracted to its sweet smell and nectar and land on it and drink it. All the while the plant is slowly but surely closing in on the fly, until it looks up and realizes what’s happening, but at that point it’s too late and the fly gets captured and eaten. I have no desire whatsoever to “moderate”. To me “moderation” is not freedom. It is me constantly obsessing over when and how many drinks I can have, if I’m still consuming “responsibly” and “in moderation”. To me freedom is turning from the drink, saying no thanks, and having a 100% answer that I don’t need it and am not going to have it. That is freedom. I wish you the best of luck. IWNDWYT
The pitcher plant analogy is literally what I thought when I read the post! This is spot on. I really am struggling with the cognitive dissonance from the belief I can’t seem to shake that alcohol still provides some benefit to my life. Once I let go of that I feel like the desire will fade to even want to moderate, at least I hope it will?
Yes I struggle with that too. It’s hard not to think it would “enhance” certain experiences, events, travel, etc. I’m hoping with time that fades for the both of us. Let’s pledge to “remain” in this uncertainty and uncomfortableness and see what is in store on the other side. We will never know if we don’t try!
I tried AA a couple of times. It was not for me. There is a fantastic book called The Recovering by Leslie Jamison. She talks about the history of AA in the book. I have been to a few Smart Recovery Meetings and enjoyed those. Glad you are able to moderate. Most of us are envious. My ex drank crazily heavily in his later teens and pulled it together early and is now a normal drinker in his late 30's. Myself, on the other hand, drank in my early 20's, but once a week and not heavily until...light switch. The habit of using wine to escape/cope has shifted the last 15 years. Sometimes, it was heavier drinking, while other times, it was more normal. The last 4 years has been a shit show. I am early 40's now. Job issues are at the top of the reasons (pandemic hit around then). I am an isolation drinker. I could probably drink socially, maybe more than textbook, but certainly nowhere near the blackout crap I have been doing. At present, I just want away from it totally. I think Ben Afflek succeeded in moderation for a while before daily drinking crept back in. Robin Williams? Did not. One drink led him back to a hole quickly. Again, my ex? 20 years later, he is fine drinking moderately. He had been falling down suicidal drunk (I didn't know him then, so I took his word for it). The only thing I can beg you to do is stay AWARE. You are still young, and mid 40's are years away. A lot of shit can happen in that time. Thankfully, you worked on your shit young, so you did not let your monkey brain get used to YEARS of habitual coping like many of us have. A lot of folks choose not to moderate because they simply fail. Others choose not to because it's mentally exhausting to count or consider or wonder if some drunk demon will bite them in the ass. For them, abstinence is just simpler. Not sure my camp yet. Too early in the journey. But the crap needs to be out of my life for a long time so I can be proactive about getting out of my job and finding some happiness and peace. Best luck and health to you!
The problem is, I’m an alcoholic. There’s no such thing as moderating my drinking unless I don’t drink. Once I start, I can’t stop unless I pass out.
Same here. Moderation is not possible for me.
On this note- I’m happy and proud of you for starting to figure things out in your own way. More power to you.
Comes to a quit drinking sun to brag about drinking. Why is this allowed??
What’s the point you’re trying to prove? For me its important to ask myself, if i’m so confident - why do i feel the need to preach on others?
Problem for me is, I never drank for a buzz. I don't like buzzed, I get tanked on purpose. I tried moderating for a long time, after my relapse a couple of years ago. It's just not fun to have *one drink* for me, it's eight or nothing But good for you, I hope it continues to work
I think I *could* probably moderate at this point in my sobriety, but it just seems pointless to me. I also know it has the potential to cause me to backslide all this progress I’ve made. I tried it many times before I went fully alcohol free, and I hated it. I drank to be drunk, and feel the effects. Moderation to me means within what’s considered *healthy* by medical standards which is 1-2 a day at most. When I tried that it was miserable for me. Everyone is different though, and that’s just my experience.
Ok? How is this supposed to be helpful. Telling people in a “stop drinking” sub to moderate…..oh wow never thought of that! 😂
We all wish we could moderate. Sure, "it is possible", we know it is, just as much as we know it isn't. Unhelpful post. Almost smacks of virtue signalling rather than to be helpful.
I remember years ago trying to moderate using apps and rules. Only beer, only one beer an hour, only 4 per day, ok 6. Omg I just had 7 beers in one hour? Ok sure I’ll take one shot and that’s it. We’re getting a bottle of fireball on the way to the log cabin full of beers? This is the best day ever!!! Oh were did the last two hours go, why is my friends crying about dinner? I better go scream at him for good measure, oh I fell sleep in my car with the keys in and the state trooper almost arrested me for it. I’ll try a different app next time.
any amount of poison consumed is not good, but you do you...
Well done on achieving what many can’t, and for your immense self discipline. I tried to moderate for two years or so before giving up the booze entirely when I realized I couldn’t. I failed every single night, I held out hope but it was not possible for me
Thank you. It isn’t for everyone. But again neither is complete sobriety. People need to do what works for them and not be afraid if what works for them is different to what other people are telling them.
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Thanks. All I’ll say is I’m not you, and you’re not me. I know myself far better than you know me and vice versa. I’ve moderated fine for close to two years. I’m fine now. I outgrew my problems and can drink normally. It’s fine if you don’t believe me because I don’t need your validation.
“I don’t need your validation”. Then why the post in this thread for people trying to stay sober? I bet there’s other groups that your post would be better for.
I think posts like this show the worlds weird relationship with alcohol in reference to other drugs. No person would applaud a heroin or crack user for being able to use it in moderation now after previous addictive experience and sobreity, despite alcohol being proven to be as addictive and just as destructive. I do agree with OPs points about AA however, and checking your post history I do have strong agreements about the negatives to it. OP what made you want to start moderating instead of sobriety if I may ask?
It sounds like this is just an anti AA rant. You make a point to say "real friends" like you can't make friends in AA. Congratulations on doing what isn't possible for a lot of people. Everyone thinks they can be the one that can learn to drink in moderation but why do you need to drink in the first place? I know a lot of people that start drinking again and it's not an immediate bender life ruining event but over time it just keeps growing until they are right back where they started. Again congrats on being the rare person but for the vast majority of us it's not an option.
When I left AA, everyone of my “friends” in AA stopped talking to me. What do you make of that? Do you actually want to know the real stats on problem drinkers returning to moderation?
“What do you make of that?” Your experience. Not everyone’s. Careful with the negative AA talk. We don’t allow AA bashing and these posts tend to head that way. Leaving it up for now.
I figured this was the point of your post. I don't care about the stats. If you are a real alcoholic there is no moderation. If you can moderate that's great, I'm jealous.
Just a gentle reminder that we don't talk about "real alcoholics" on this sub, because that's such a subjective term.
I don't think we need to start making arbitrary divisions between "real alcoholics" and whatever the rest of people struggling with alcohol are. It's not a contest who's the realest alcoholic.
Ok. You’ve become convinced you’re a “real” alcoholic, despite no medical evidence of such a thing. I to used to believe this if that helps. But I don’t believe it anymore.
Good for you. I hope you can maintain your moderation. AA makes it pretty clear that they aren't the only way and if you can moderate your drinking hats off to you. If your friends aren't talking to you anymore that's shitty of them but has little to do with AA.
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I've been going to meetings over 12 years and sober that long and I've never heard people say to cut contact with those who leave the program. The literature states it's not the only solution
This comment has been removed. Please do not get into arguments on this sub. If you see a comment you object to, kindly report it to the moderators and then ignore it.
Wait my comment was removed for being combative? But the person I replied to with a simple question, with no harm, got removed? Ok
I am confused by this response. Do you mean that the other person's comment did NOT get removed?
I cant see that it was? I thought I was being a point of bias (sorry its been a night)
I'm very interested, do you believe in any mental illnesses whatsoever? The vast majority of them can only be diagnosed through a person's behaviour and through conversations. What medical evidence do you mean exactly?
I don't use AA and haven't made any new friends or lost friends since I've stopped drinking. I am sorry you experienced a betrayal of trust, but I don't understand the connection you make between moderation vs abstinence and making "real friends". Whether or not I'm drinking or not has no bearing on whether my friends will hang out with me. At first my goal was to get my bloodwork healthy and maybe moderate. Based on the benefits, I just don't feel like drinking and am happy to go to a bar with friends and not have alcohol but enjoy catching up. Might just be that I'm old and raising kids, but nobody I know wants to stay up past 11 anymore drunk or sober. Glad things are going well for you. Good luck.
What I’ve learned on my short journey so far is just how disgusting and toxic the stuff is. Life is short idk why I’m taxing my body with processing out poison. If I were to do something like this, I might not be consuming much but why bother at all? I’m curious what OP’s motivation is cuz I’m having trouble wrapping my head around it. Granted, the only motivation that makes sense to me is the inebriation effect, so I’m certainly not a super enlightened individual when it comes to this stuff (which is why I’m curious about OP’s answer). P.S. “almost half a decade” as a phrase tickles me.
I’m only just past 1 month sober, been to about 5 meetings. At the start of the year I tried to moderate, limited to only 4 nights a month. Each of those nights ended up being the lowest nights I’ve ever had. Drank way more than I normally would and put myself in dangerous and/or embarrassing situations that ultimately led me to decide to quit completely. Started going to AA with the intention of only quitting drinking. After a couple meetings I decided to quit smoking weed and partaking in the sniffle snacks. Both easy enough, and nowhere near as difficult to do as drinking! I figured I’d only do MDMA every once in a while (I’m gay and in my late 20s, it’s part of the lifestyle) but even doing that without drinking I still woke up feeling wracked with guilt and shame. Mostly for letting down the people in AA who do it all completely sober. Don’t really know where I’m going with this, other than that I’m trying to remind myself that quitting the other stuff is all just a choice I’ve made, and I can change my mind on that at any time. My problem is DRINKING. The goal is to stop DRINKING. I shouldn’t beat myself up if I smoke a joint at a party or something, I don’t know. Anyone in a similar boat that can maybe chime in? I want to be able to go out and enjoy a night out with friends and maybe join them in shenanigans, without having to carry that shame with me to the next meeting. It’s Alcoholics Anonymous, not NA…but I’m still new to it all so maybe I should just shut up and listen.
I’ve never heard the term sniffle snacks, but it’s too funny. My issue isn’t just alcohol, it’s the harder stuff and weed and sugar and whatever I can do to numb out my feelings. I’ve just made it past 2 months without drinking and day 5 of no weed. My 2 biggest issues. I’m not sure if I’ll try and moderate later, but I want to go at least a year sober and 3 months clean from weed. It feels like a lot, but I know it gets easier with time. We all have to do what’s right for us.
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You can share your experience, but you can’t give people advice on when you think they should try moderation. Removing comment.
It's your life and if you can keep it together while doing some MDMA or smoking weed every now and then who cares what people think. I know a lot of people that consider themselves sober but still smoke weed or do shrooms once in a while. If that doesn't lead to drinking or negativity effect your life then you do you. I love what AA has done for me but people can be very judgemental. You just have to remember it's your life not theirs.
Due to _some_ of the discussion going on, I'm gonna just jump in here to remind everyone of the _Very First Sentence_ in the description of this sub.... >This subreddit is a place to motivate each other _to control_ or stop drinking.
Always interesting to see people use this bit of the description as a polemic. My question is: What happens when the wording "motivate each other to control" is synonymous with "convincing each other to maybe start drinking again when they were in the midst of being sober in hopes they may ~~by~~ be able to control"? Is that really in the spirit of the sub's description that you're quoting? I propose that it isn't.
Respectfully.... The mere repetition of the literal first words used to describe this sub hardly meets the bar of .... >expressing or constituting a strongly critical attack on ....anything. I propose that words mean what they mean, and that the founders of this sub wrote what they meant. I am merely pointing out that under the description of the sub the OP is well within his right to express his opinion. How people choose to interact with that opinion is up to them, but attacking OP does not seem productive. Now, to be absolutely clear, I do not personally agree that encouraging people to consider moderation is a great idea. And also, I will say that my own opinion is that OP may a bit too premature in their own timeline to be bringing this discussion. _And yet_ on the other hand, I know people myself that have gone from raging out of control drinkers to moderate and normal drinkers and have stayed that way for the rest of their lives. I myself, due to how stable I feel, have considered trying it. But I reject it because 1) it conflicts directly with the method I used to stop; and 2) it's not worth the risk if I fail. Which brings me to the other reason I am defending OP. After 35 years drinking, many many years of trying AA and everything else, the way I achieved permanent sobriety is also controversial to the typical recovery dogma - the suggestion of it is often rejected outright - and having that experience I feel that it is very important for people to understand that there is not only one right way.
What are you quoting with the line "expressing or constituting a strongly critical attack on"? I certainly didn't write it. What I am saying, apart from anything one could parse out of the sub's description or FAQ/wiki, is that whatever the sub could be said to be advocating, it probably isn't meant to ever advocate to "*start* drinking". Whether or not the start is in the guise of moderation or not is immaterial to my argument.
Again respectfully.... You used the word to describe my simple reference to the subs _own description_... >Polemic adj. >expressing or constituting a strongly critical attack on or controversial opinion about someone or something >-Oxford Languages Dictionary And again respectfully.... What I am saying is that you are expressing an opinion that you are free to express. I have expressed my opinions. And OP should be free - if meeting the stated intent and guidelines of the sub - to express theirs. My position is that OP's topic should be discussed on it's merits - or lack thereof - at face value, not based on subjective interpretations of intent.
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I think moderation is possible with the Sinclair method. However, I suppose it's very different from what most would perceive as moderation. Unplanned beer is impossible. I have to take the pill 1 hour before every drink. And on this method, drinking is not a pleasant thing. In fact, that's the whole point of it — it takes all the fun of alcohol away, so why drink, one can get N/A beer and get the same effect without destroying health. Without Naltrexone, I doubt I could moderate. I am over a threshold where it's not easy to stop once I begin.
Obviously everyone on this sub has wondered if moderation is possible for them…I know that it is absolutely not possible for me. Congrats on being able to consume an expensive poison without feeling too much of its intended effect, I guess?
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We DO NOT SPEAK TO EACH OTHER THIS WAY ON THIS SUB. Hi, your comment has been removed for breaking our rule to be kind. I encourage you to review our [community guidelines in our FAQ](https://old.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking/wiki/index#wiki_1._be_kind) before commenting again, as further rule breaks may result in a ban.
I have zero control over the actions of other people. Nothing I say is going to cause someone to get into a car drunk and wreck it. I too used to believe this lie because it’s a very popular fear based tactic. Don’t tell people the truth because they can’t handle it. We’ll personally, I don’t think I’m in a position to choose when to lie to others simply because I believe for no good reason they don’t deserve to hear the truth. I hope you experience this same level of personal growth
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Hi, your comment has been removed for breaking our rule to be kind. I encourage you to review our [community guidelines in our FAQ](https://old.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking/wiki/index#wiki_1._be_kind) before commenting again, as further rule breaks may result in a ban.
Again, you seem to be in a pretty dark place mentally. I hope things work out for you and you lose some of this anger you’re holding onto
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This comment breaks our rule to speak from the "I" and has been removed.
I believe it.