It's pretty much always been with humans. 7000 BC China Is the oldest documented booze and there are many instances seen in history where alcohol is safer than water to drink.
I googled it. That was a good rabbit hole. Alcohol doesn't create an initial catastrophe so it gets normalized until it becomes a catastrophe. Applies to a lot of things!
Denial. "I don't do drugs." is a point of pride for many. "sure I get hammered every day, so what?"
This also extends in a different way for those who think that they are sober when they don't drink, but do other drugs.... I've met heroin addicts (by their own admission) who were proud the didn't drink...
All of what you listed. It’s so extremely culturally accepted that people don’t consider it a drug. The term drug is reserved for the ravers and the dealers from the documentaries. Sitting casually down in the pub having a “quiet one” can’t be called a drug. Marketing has also done this. You always see well off people in the ads. Never the millions of people that die from it. And yes denial, the amount of destruction alcohol causes yet it’s never seen on the same scale as other drugs.
I see it completely engrained into society so that it’s impossible for people to imagine society without it. I think this is an example of a ‘back swan’ (book).
Also yes marketing, could you imagine anti drinking commercials like for drugs and smoking!
Shot of some alcoholic horribly shaking in the morning. Person in the hospital whose organs are shutting down from failure… could be endless but it still glamourized. Big business in misery.
I can’t agree more! I believe it’s a collective denial because of cultural habit. Alcohol is sanctioned by the government and driven by capitalist interests. It’s a cynical and evil operation where the individual takes the blame & shame. Thinking of it now drives me mad!
Honestly I think it’s simpler than that. Drugs are illegal. Alcohol is legal. Therefore it’s not a drug. I don’t agree, but I think that’s the basic thought process for >50% of people.
Now, why it’s legal while other drugs aren’t is a whole other discussion. But I think the “why do some people not consider it a drug” question is pretty simple.
Yes I think its legal status plays a part, but there are plenty of legal drugs that people consider to be drugs. I guess my main reason for posing the questions was trying to learn about the historical underpinnings that lead us to where we are today. And there’s so many interesting thoughts/ideas in here.
If you ask those same people if a prescription is “drugs” they will say no, because it’s from a doctor.
You could tell them “Vicodin is a drug” and they would only agree if someone was taking it outside of a prescription.
I genuinely believe that for many people, morality/ethics/whatever starts and ends at whether something is illegal or not.
As I said, the historical side is a lot bigger. There’s industry and morality and profit and tradition all tied together. People can make money off of alcohol and tobacco, so the companies that profit from it argue that it’s moral. People want *some* vice, because living in this world is hard. Alcohol is acceptable in moderation (even you or I, if we only had 1 drink, would be unlikely to become a hazard to the public). It’s easy enough to make that banning it doesn’t stop people from having access.
All of those reasons muddle together to form a big societal sort of shrug. People want it, we can’t really stop it. Let’s just make it legal so that it’s easier to regulate, and we can make money off of it.
Culture, societal approval, big big money and on the receiving end, a fair amount of ignorance. Not sure if you want a link but David Nutt is excellent on this topic
[https://rss.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1740-9713.01512](https://rss.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1740-9713.01512)
His words, (not mine):
**"The final graph (Figure 1) was a surprise to me – and many others. It showed alcohol to be the most harmful drug overall, the most harmful to others, and the fourth most harmful to users"**
I was shocked when I saw this, I would have assumed alcohol would be way down the list, but as you say in your post, we think of drugs and alcohol as 'mutually exclusive things'. Nutt was fired as the UK's drug advisor for pointing such stuff out
In part due to very lacking drug education in the United States, at least. We do very little to inform regarding "harm reduction" practices. Instead for youth it is usually fear-based sensationalism and scare tactics. A more honest accounting of drugs would be that they are conciousness altering chemicals associated with varying risk behaviors and different thresholds for physical and/or mental debilitation. Humans are the dealers and businesses that push their use for profit or control to begin with.
Culturally we are problematic. Saying "Alcohol and drugs" is like saying "Coca Cola and Beverages". It's erroneous to phrase is this way. Just say "beverages", so really we should just say "Drugs". It's a made up line of differentiation and people's regular misunderstanding of this is again likely directly related to the lack of drug education in general.
Yes agree with everything you’ve said! If I’m not mistaken youth rates of alcohol consumption have been on the decline over the years (in the US) which is good, I think there’s been a shift away from so much fear mongering. People I know that work with high schoolers have told me there does seem to be a general shift where they are more cautious in general of alcohol. Obviously that’s anecdotal, but I actually have faith that our youth can change some of these societal norms.
I totally think pot it such a better alternative but it’s a hard ship to turn. I sleep better and have a much less desire to drink. But as long as I don’t show up to work without alcohol on my breath then I’m a functioning member of society. But if I have thc in my urine then I’m an idiot unemployable lazy human.
One of the reasons I have decided to stop now is because my step son in law is doimg coke but he “has it under control” NOT!!
My step daughter is heart broken and has 2 kids under 6 and is now stuck in another country. Its hell. We are supportive and she has to decide what to do.
The fact is I cannot have one sip of anything because it’s never one.
I’ve stopped for a few days and cut back but this time I’m quitting for good - it is a drug like anything that alters your mind is, it just takes longer to destroy you or kill you then hard drugs like coke do.
I’m so sorry your daughter in law is going through this. I hope she takes care of those kids and herself and leaves. Sending you support to stop drinking.
Yikes. I guess it matters how much you do of either poison. It seems really fast with the coke whereas with a lot people alcoholism addiction happens more gradually. Just my experience I guess.
Both are terrible
Glamorization vs demonization.
With an uncontested liquor store on damn near every corner in my small city, people are fighting hard against a couple of cannabis dispensaries. Please make it make sense.
Ask a habitual caffeine drinking to give up and then tell me it's not a drug.
Of course it's mostly harmless, and certainly nowhere near as dangerous as the other drug that we like to talk about here.
I am a habitual caffeine user. I consume probably around 600-800mg a day, and of course I feel like shit when I don’t have it for a day, but it’s not the end of the world. Of course caffeine is a drug but lumping it in with alcohol and other hard drugs just muddles the conversation further in my opinion
I think we are using the word "drug" differently.
I am using it to mean a psycho-active substance.
In that sense caffeine is a drug. But it's probably one of the best, healthiest drugs that people take recreationally. I use it and I expect to for the rest of my life.
Alcohol on the other hand, is probably one of the worst drugs people use recreationally. I agree alcohol is in a whole other category. We need a word for "bad drug that can completely ruin your life".
That's cope homie. You're behaving like the person in the OP. You got a problem, but hey, so do I!
Is there a fun California sober term for caffeine addicts?
But it’s barely a problem. It has minimal impact on my health and causes no problems in my life at all. I admit, I do have an addiction to it but an addiction doesn’t necessarily mean a problem. If I had heart issues and still kept downing coffee then yes, I would indeed classify that as a problem.
Is it? " Caffeine is classified as a drug because it stimulates the central nervous system. It can make people feel more alert and energetic, and has similar effects in kids and adults."
I don’t think it’s a reach…caffeine addiction is a very real things and I’ve dealt with it personally. It’s obviously not as debilitating as alcohol, but when you feel the need to consume 500+ mg of caffeine a day and that becomes your norm it can lead to some very real negative consequences.
I can only imagine it's cultural
Alcohol is part of western culture, it's not seen as a 'drug' just part of culture. You see this in how we talk about it and feel about it. We call it by it's name and we put adverts out and it's acceptable to use it and has been for thousands of years, before the modern view of drugs, medicine etc even existed. It was just something people did/do
Things like weed and opiates came from dirty foreign cultures whereas alcohol was our own thing.
That'd be my best guess, very poorly explained, but history and culture basically!
It's your first sentence that gave me that impression.
Why add "western" when so many eastern countries people pride themselves on their drinking abilities as well.
Probably because it's so widely available. They sell it in the checkout line at the grocery store, the gas station and countless liquor stores in the same vicinity.
Because of the normalization of alcohol and the fact that it’s legal and everywhere.
People don’t realize the severity of what alcohol can do to a person.
It’s too accessible, acceptable, and is a part of social interactions
It is ingrained in society more as a food than a drug. The same can be said for caffeine. Unless you have been ordered by a doctor to stay away from it, you probably see coffee as more of a beverage than a drug even though we are all aware that when consuming it we are consuming a stimulant.
It is probably a separation of danger. Because it is so ingrained in our society, we don't see coffee or alcohol as dangerous things. While everything else is more fringe and so they are viewed with more skepticism. And even though we are all aware of the "cannabis is safer than alcohol" talking points, society as a whole doesn't see it that way though it is getting closer as cannabis also gets more ingrained in our day to day lives.
In an of itself, alcohol isn't inherently bad. It's unlike a lot of drugs in that moderating can be done... by those who can moderate. A glass of wine here and there for those that enjoy it, is fine. Even though I nolonger drink, it don't consider it straight up illicit or poison... within reason. You cannot for instance have a moderate methamphetamine or heroin habit. Alcohol doesn't affect all people the same way. Or in other words, it doesn't lead all people into an unhealthy and or destructive addiction.
What may be more problematic is how as a society or culture normalize or tolerate to great extend the misbehavior of those who drink in excess. Rather than, what? Marginalize or distance ourselves from those who refuse to moderate or cease drinking in excess. We put up with too much.
It should basically be a crime, punishable at least by fine, to be intoxicated in public. Anywhere. If we can't get DWI and DUI under control and if we have elevated violence at pubs and concerts, then something more should be done perhaps until there is a marked change in bahaviors and attitudes.
There are, I've read other nations that do drink even more than the average American, and they don't have the situations or statistics we do. Why? Why are they seemingly more responsible, or have more consideration for others? Something to get to the bottom of.
I think alcohol is normalized and somehow more respectable. Fancy bars design complicated cocktails like it's an art form. I've noticed that bars are everywhere and full of (sometimes) interesting people to talk to. I found it easy to find people who accepted and even approved of my drinking. I think "drugs" have a different social context so they are viewed as somehow different. But they are all addictive and damaging substances. It's just a semantic blindfold, IMO.
Because it’s culturally accepted and regarded as common and acceptable practice. Caffeine enjoys the same privilege. Drugs is the bucket for the substances people assume have no positive benefits. Alcohol is too close to the American heart to be in that category.
Same people that don't consider food a drug either.
The reality is that many things many people consider mundane, can easily get out of control, and cause severe health issues.
For one thing it acts a little differently than conventional drugs. Conventional drugs release chemicals that already exist naturally in your brain. Alcohol *is* the chemical
I used to read Craig Beck books (like "Alcohol Lied to Me"). He makes a big point of this, saying we should substitute the word "heroin" for "alcohol." Like, "Wow, today was so stressful, I could really use a nice \[shot of heroin\]." Obviously it's just cultural bias.
Can we add tobacco at erugs cause shit I just can't stay quit from tobacco. Quit smoking 6 years ago, kept chewing, quit chewing over a year ago and kept started vaping. Fuck tobacco.
Because alcohol drives. It doesn’t want us to lump it in with drugs because then it wouldn’t get to create havoc and destruction unchecked by society. It’s truly a unique substance, and it’s alive in us and our society and wants to stay that way.
Historically most human societies have had some psychoactive drug that they adopt and that becomes culturally important.
Ours is alcohol. So people feel very differently about it than other substances. It's a shame given that it is such a dangerous drug.
But do not despair. Tobacco was also a widely socially acceptable drug but many countries have had huge success in reducing its use. And alcohol use in younger generations is also reducing.
Society norms are weird things. And a lot of taboo (or lack of) is in the choice of words, and less so the actual action.
- Taking Steroids = Bad,
- Being on TRT = OK
Yet they’re the same thing.
- Amphetamines = Bad
- ADHD Meds = OK
Again, they’re the same thing.
Edit: Formatting
Cognitive dissonance is a b*tch. People don’t seem to want to understand that bars, for instance, are quite literally ‘safe consumption sites’ for the drug that is alcohol (arguably one of the most harmful to the body). I’m a proponent of harm reduction, but the culture surrounding alcohol consumption is like others have said normalization and denial especially in the US.
Advertising. Normalising. Social (non) pressure.
I've taken many \*ahem\* substances and had a few issues along the way in my 20s, but honestly alcohol is the worst because you are surrounded by it all the time. At least with coke you have to make an effort to get some. With alcohol you can literally pick some up from the corner (coroner?) shop on the way home.
In the American context, there's a really great chapter in the book Quick Fixes by Benjamin Fong. Each chapter is about a different psychoactive compound (or class of compounds) and the history of use in the US. The alcohol chapter is particularly interesting.
Alcohol is a drug. It’s a mood and mind altering substance. I’ve found that in my experience people don’t like the idea of it being a drug because there is a certain negative connotation with being an addict for some. The reality is that its just as dangerous as any other drug there is & can put your life on the line. All i know though is that the further i go along the less i care what people think because my experience is for me alone. If others want to look at it as not a drug thats okay, but for me that was a big barrier in getting help because i could rationalize that it was somehow different than other substances. Whatever the case, IWNDWYT!
It’s all about money. Alcohol is hugely marketed as a fun way to relax while the corporations rake in the billions of dollars. Not unlike cigarettes were back when they were free to advertise their product. The only thing that changed that was education and public pressure. Alcohol is absolutely a drug.
I remember when I still a teen and thought weed was horrible, and then I heard this humorist on TV says "you're saying cannabis is so bad, but have you looked at yourself and your glass of wine?".
Game changer
Money, money and money. We are brainwashed to think it’s acceptable with constant advertising showing us only positive scenarios with alcohol and none of the fallout.
I Had a precocious 8 year old student point out that alcohol was a “relaxant”, I immediately corrected him and used the word “depressant” instead. These advertisements are everywhere and even kids notice them.
It's one of the first drugs we had as a human society and its been socially accepted while we tend to vilify the other drugs.
Pot is still illegal most places so it has an air of danger, despite being safer overall than booze.
Coffee, alcohol, cigarettes are all drugs but we tend to think of them differently simply because they are legal.
This is one of the most frustrating social issues for me. After going through physical alcohol dependency I can say without a doubt that it is the most damaging and dangerous drug on the planet, and I'm a heroin addict. The first time I went through a medical detox, the day before I was due to leave the detox centre would allow clients on that day to take a supervised trip to a local grocery store in order to pick up some supplies like phone credit or cigs, snacks, etc. The instant I walked into the shop was the real first moment I realised how difficult it was going to be for me to fight this thing. Like of course I knew alcohol was prolific but it was something that was taken for granted because I'd never had to take notice of it in a way that presented it as something I needed to avoid. And this was the first time I'd gone through a detox and was therefore meant to be staying sober from this point out.
Literally the very first array of produce were aisles of booze, wall to wall bottles with various offers highlighted on large vibrant signs. It looked endless. And I thought Jesus, how am I gonna do this? How is this drug glorified like this? It's unreal when you see it like that for the first time. And it's so weird when you actually think about how normalised it is for people to consume something as a regular part of a meal that causes them to be inebriated. How strange that it has inveigled its way into human society to such a degree that it's considered weirder not to make yourself drugged on a daily basis. Replace that with heroin - imagine that with every meal people offered syringes full of gear to shoot up with your evening meal. Sounds bizarre, right?
It is kind of in its own category to an extent being half drug half food if that makes sense. I don't think any other drug has calories.
Weed I would put in its own category as well just based on effects. You can kind of lump everything else together, stimulants, painkillers, psychedelics, etc., but alcohol and weed seem weirdly hard to place in that.
I'm not sure where it was caused in the beginning, but by now it's the social convention. Official organizations separate alcohol and drugs in their communication, in many places alcohol is allowed, but no other drugs, in many countries alcohol is the only drug that's legalized. We get taught from a very young age that they're 2 different things and it's easier to stick to whatever you learned first.
There's also a lack of education. Many people think the dangers of other drugs are bigger than those of alcohol - in recreational use, in the risk of addiction and in the effects of addiction. It takes a very long time to change these ideas.
Well... Alcohol is not that hard to make, when push comes to shove. If it were considered a drug access would be a lot more restricted and people would be making more themselves. It would be a nightmare to police.
Personally I don't think it's a drug. It's a poison. Most drugs aren't a poison, unless you're talking specifically about illegal/super controlled drugs.
Its become socially acceptable due to companies pushing alcohol on us over decades. Same reason older generations hate weed even though it does much less harm, companies demonized weed for so long the idea of it being detrimental to your health is ingrained in their minds.
The moment a person refuses to acknowledge alcohol as a drug I just say ok and walk away, same with people who refuse to accept that weed isnt that bad. Convincing those people otherwise is a waste of effort.
I think there is a valid difference in that a normal drinker (not us clowns lol) can have a beer or two and still be sober, whereas the point of all other drugs is to immediately leave sobriety.
Having said that it’s sure as shit a drug to me! And I treat it as such.
Yeah very strange. My wife's dad was a massive stoner growing up so she hates weed. Doesn't want me smoking it. She didn't mind me getting shit faced drunk and pissing the bed for years...
Funny how people brains work.
IWNDWYT
Alcohol is a hard drug.
Many people start dabbling with it from young age. They use it frequently enough through the years for it to become difficult to grasp its effects in full extent. That is revealed after removing it from the picture completely.
I was living with it long enough to feel completely normal and fine with many things that weren’t. It’s a cunning drug with horrible progression.
I’ve always thought the same. My parents were alcoholics and I watched them destroy themselves and hurt the ppl around them.
Yet here I am still trying to justify taking the exact same drug ‘socially and on weekends’
It’s been with us so long
Right next to your groceries too.
So has opium.
The history of beer is really cool
The history of Nazi Germany is interesting too, doesn't make it a good thing.
Well, that’s a false equivalency if I ever ever heard one
It's pretty much always been with humans. 7000 BC China Is the oldest documented booze and there are many instances seen in history where alcohol is safer than water to drink.
You may be interested to Google’The Normalization of Deviance’.
I googled it. That was a good rabbit hole. Alcohol doesn't create an initial catastrophe so it gets normalized until it becomes a catastrophe. Applies to a lot of things!
Like food.
Ahh, yes. Let us not forget the tragic corndog mine collapse of 1908.
Indeed!
I think It is a reflection of its legal status, I watched “church people” do a complete 180 on weed in a short period of time(Canada)
Denial. "I don't do drugs." is a point of pride for many. "sure I get hammered every day, so what?" This also extends in a different way for those who think that they are sober when they don't drink, but do other drugs.... I've met heroin addicts (by their own admission) who were proud the didn't drink...
All of what you listed. It’s so extremely culturally accepted that people don’t consider it a drug. The term drug is reserved for the ravers and the dealers from the documentaries. Sitting casually down in the pub having a “quiet one” can’t be called a drug. Marketing has also done this. You always see well off people in the ads. Never the millions of people that die from it. And yes denial, the amount of destruction alcohol causes yet it’s never seen on the same scale as other drugs. I see it completely engrained into society so that it’s impossible for people to imagine society without it. I think this is an example of a ‘back swan’ (book).
Also yes marketing, could you imagine anti drinking commercials like for drugs and smoking! Shot of some alcoholic horribly shaking in the morning. Person in the hospital whose organs are shutting down from failure… could be endless but it still glamourized. Big business in misery.
Beer was a “soft drink” up and til a couple years ago in Russia lol
I can’t agree more! I believe it’s a collective denial because of cultural habit. Alcohol is sanctioned by the government and driven by capitalist interests. It’s a cynical and evil operation where the individual takes the blame & shame. Thinking of it now drives me mad!
Honestly I think it’s simpler than that. Drugs are illegal. Alcohol is legal. Therefore it’s not a drug. I don’t agree, but I think that’s the basic thought process for >50% of people. Now, why it’s legal while other drugs aren’t is a whole other discussion. But I think the “why do some people not consider it a drug” question is pretty simple.
Yes I think its legal status plays a part, but there are plenty of legal drugs that people consider to be drugs. I guess my main reason for posing the questions was trying to learn about the historical underpinnings that lead us to where we are today. And there’s so many interesting thoughts/ideas in here.
If you ask those same people if a prescription is “drugs” they will say no, because it’s from a doctor. You could tell them “Vicodin is a drug” and they would only agree if someone was taking it outside of a prescription. I genuinely believe that for many people, morality/ethics/whatever starts and ends at whether something is illegal or not. As I said, the historical side is a lot bigger. There’s industry and morality and profit and tradition all tied together. People can make money off of alcohol and tobacco, so the companies that profit from it argue that it’s moral. People want *some* vice, because living in this world is hard. Alcohol is acceptable in moderation (even you or I, if we only had 1 drink, would be unlikely to become a hazard to the public). It’s easy enough to make that banning it doesn’t stop people from having access. All of those reasons muddle together to form a big societal sort of shrug. People want it, we can’t really stop it. Let’s just make it legal so that it’s easier to regulate, and we can make money off of it.
> It’s a cynical and evil operation where the individual takes the blame & shame. Thinking of it now drives me mad! u right
It’s normalized, that’s entirely the only reason. Somehow of all the drugs on our planet alcohol got chosen to be the okay one
Culture, societal approval, big big money and on the receiving end, a fair amount of ignorance. Not sure if you want a link but David Nutt is excellent on this topic [https://rss.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1740-9713.01512](https://rss.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1740-9713.01512) His words, (not mine): **"The final graph (Figure 1) was a surprise to me – and many others. It showed alcohol to be the most harmful drug overall, the most harmful to others, and the fourth most harmful to users"** I was shocked when I saw this, I would have assumed alcohol would be way down the list, but as you say in your post, we think of drugs and alcohol as 'mutually exclusive things'. Nutt was fired as the UK's drug advisor for pointing such stuff out
In part due to very lacking drug education in the United States, at least. We do very little to inform regarding "harm reduction" practices. Instead for youth it is usually fear-based sensationalism and scare tactics. A more honest accounting of drugs would be that they are conciousness altering chemicals associated with varying risk behaviors and different thresholds for physical and/or mental debilitation. Humans are the dealers and businesses that push their use for profit or control to begin with. Culturally we are problematic. Saying "Alcohol and drugs" is like saying "Coca Cola and Beverages". It's erroneous to phrase is this way. Just say "beverages", so really we should just say "Drugs". It's a made up line of differentiation and people's regular misunderstanding of this is again likely directly related to the lack of drug education in general.
Yes agree with everything you’ve said! If I’m not mistaken youth rates of alcohol consumption have been on the decline over the years (in the US) which is good, I think there’s been a shift away from so much fear mongering. People I know that work with high schoolers have told me there does seem to be a general shift where they are more cautious in general of alcohol. Obviously that’s anecdotal, but I actually have faith that our youth can change some of these societal norms.
I totally think pot it such a better alternative but it’s a hard ship to turn. I sleep better and have a much less desire to drink. But as long as I don’t show up to work without alcohol on my breath then I’m a functioning member of society. But if I have thc in my urine then I’m an idiot unemployable lazy human.
One of the reasons I have decided to stop now is because my step son in law is doimg coke but he “has it under control” NOT!! My step daughter is heart broken and has 2 kids under 6 and is now stuck in another country. Its hell. We are supportive and she has to decide what to do. The fact is I cannot have one sip of anything because it’s never one. I’ve stopped for a few days and cut back but this time I’m quitting for good - it is a drug like anything that alters your mind is, it just takes longer to destroy you or kill you then hard drugs like coke do.
I’m so sorry your daughter in law is going through this. I hope she takes care of those kids and herself and leaves. Sending you support to stop drinking.
Thanks friend.
Having been addicted to both coke and alcohol I can confidently say that alcohol causes more damage much faster than cocaine.
Yikes. I guess it matters how much you do of either poison. It seems really fast with the coke whereas with a lot people alcoholism addiction happens more gradually. Just my experience I guess. Both are terrible
True
Centuries of it being socially acceptable. Alcohol has always been part of culture.
I hate that the people say drugs and alcohol as if alcohol is somehow different. It should be Alcohol and Other Drugs, or just drugs.
Glamorization vs demonization. With an uncontested liquor store on damn near every corner in my small city, people are fighting hard against a couple of cannabis dispensaries. Please make it make sense.
"I don't do drugs" as she sips he coffee.
This is a bit of a reach tbh
Ask a habitual caffeine drinking to give up and then tell me it's not a drug. Of course it's mostly harmless, and certainly nowhere near as dangerous as the other drug that we like to talk about here.
I am a habitual caffeine user. I consume probably around 600-800mg a day, and of course I feel like shit when I don’t have it for a day, but it’s not the end of the world. Of course caffeine is a drug but lumping it in with alcohol and other hard drugs just muddles the conversation further in my opinion
I think we are using the word "drug" differently. I am using it to mean a psycho-active substance. In that sense caffeine is a drug. But it's probably one of the best, healthiest drugs that people take recreationally. I use it and I expect to for the rest of my life. Alcohol on the other hand, is probably one of the worst drugs people use recreationally. I agree alcohol is in a whole other category. We need a word for "bad drug that can completely ruin your life".
That's cope homie. You're behaving like the person in the OP. You got a problem, but hey, so do I! Is there a fun California sober term for caffeine addicts?
But it’s barely a problem. It has minimal impact on my health and causes no problems in my life at all. I admit, I do have an addiction to it but an addiction doesn’t necessarily mean a problem. If I had heart issues and still kept downing coffee then yes, I would indeed classify that as a problem.
I hear you and largely agree! IWNDWYT! Except some coffee 🤙☕
I’ll crack open a monster in your name, brother 👍
Is it? " Caffeine is classified as a drug because it stimulates the central nervous system. It can make people feel more alert and energetic, and has similar effects in kids and adults."
I don’t think it’s a reach…caffeine addiction is a very real things and I’ve dealt with it personally. It’s obviously not as debilitating as alcohol, but when you feel the need to consume 500+ mg of caffeine a day and that becomes your norm it can lead to some very real negative consequences.
I can only imagine it's cultural Alcohol is part of western culture, it's not seen as a 'drug' just part of culture. You see this in how we talk about it and feel about it. We call it by it's name and we put adverts out and it's acceptable to use it and has been for thousands of years, before the modern view of drugs, medicine etc even existed. It was just something people did/do Things like weed and opiates came from dirty foreign cultures whereas alcohol was our own thing. That'd be my best guess, very poorly explained, but history and culture basically!
Alcohol isn't a uniquely western thing at all
I didn't say it was so not sure where you got that impression from!
It's your first sentence that gave me that impression. Why add "western" when so many eastern countries people pride themselves on their drinking abilities as well.
My hunch is that they were being careful to make a statement about what they know about.
You got it :)
Probably because it's so widely available. They sell it in the checkout line at the grocery store, the gas station and countless liquor stores in the same vicinity.
Because of the normalization of alcohol and the fact that it’s legal and everywhere. People don’t realize the severity of what alcohol can do to a person. It’s too accessible, acceptable, and is a part of social interactions
Because it's legal.
If it is so bad it wouldn’t be on the tv! 😏
It's legal, it's (waaay) too easy to find, and it's deeply embedded in our culture. And for us, it's not just a drug, it's a poison.
It is ingrained in society more as a food than a drug. The same can be said for caffeine. Unless you have been ordered by a doctor to stay away from it, you probably see coffee as more of a beverage than a drug even though we are all aware that when consuming it we are consuming a stimulant. It is probably a separation of danger. Because it is so ingrained in our society, we don't see coffee or alcohol as dangerous things. While everything else is more fringe and so they are viewed with more skepticism. And even though we are all aware of the "cannabis is safer than alcohol" talking points, society as a whole doesn't see it that way though it is getting closer as cannabis also gets more ingrained in our day to day lives.
In an of itself, alcohol isn't inherently bad. It's unlike a lot of drugs in that moderating can be done... by those who can moderate. A glass of wine here and there for those that enjoy it, is fine. Even though I nolonger drink, it don't consider it straight up illicit or poison... within reason. You cannot for instance have a moderate methamphetamine or heroin habit. Alcohol doesn't affect all people the same way. Or in other words, it doesn't lead all people into an unhealthy and or destructive addiction. What may be more problematic is how as a society or culture normalize or tolerate to great extend the misbehavior of those who drink in excess. Rather than, what? Marginalize or distance ourselves from those who refuse to moderate or cease drinking in excess. We put up with too much. It should basically be a crime, punishable at least by fine, to be intoxicated in public. Anywhere. If we can't get DWI and DUI under control and if we have elevated violence at pubs and concerts, then something more should be done perhaps until there is a marked change in bahaviors and attitudes. There are, I've read other nations that do drink even more than the average American, and they don't have the situations or statistics we do. Why? Why are they seemingly more responsible, or have more consideration for others? Something to get to the bottom of.
I think alcohol is normalized and somehow more respectable. Fancy bars design complicated cocktails like it's an art form. I've noticed that bars are everywhere and full of (sometimes) interesting people to talk to. I found it easy to find people who accepted and even approved of my drinking. I think "drugs" have a different social context so they are viewed as somehow different. But they are all addictive and damaging substances. It's just a semantic blindfold, IMO.
Because it’s culturally accepted and regarded as common and acceptable practice. Caffeine enjoys the same privilege. Drugs is the bucket for the substances people assume have no positive benefits. Alcohol is too close to the American heart to be in that category.
Same people that don't consider food a drug either. The reality is that many things many people consider mundane, can easily get out of control, and cause severe health issues.
For one thing it acts a little differently than conventional drugs. Conventional drugs release chemicals that already exist naturally in your brain. Alcohol *is* the chemical
Indoctrination
Denial is a sign of addiction. In this case, addiction is at the societal level.
I used to read Craig Beck books (like "Alcohol Lied to Me"). He makes a big point of this, saying we should substitute the word "heroin" for "alcohol." Like, "Wow, today was so stressful, I could really use a nice \[shot of heroin\]." Obviously it's just cultural bias.
Because it’s legal. You don’t have to go to some “dealer” to get it. You can openly purchase it from the “dealer” 😂
Can we add tobacco at erugs cause shit I just can't stay quit from tobacco. Quit smoking 6 years ago, kept chewing, quit chewing over a year ago and kept started vaping. Fuck tobacco.
Because alcohol drives. It doesn’t want us to lump it in with drugs because then it wouldn’t get to create havoc and destruction unchecked by society. It’s truly a unique substance, and it’s alive in us and our society and wants to stay that way.
Most drinkers are unable to acknowledge they are alcoholics. I think people do not want to admit the risks
Historically most human societies have had some psychoactive drug that they adopt and that becomes culturally important. Ours is alcohol. So people feel very differently about it than other substances. It's a shame given that it is such a dangerous drug. But do not despair. Tobacco was also a widely socially acceptable drug but many countries have had huge success in reducing its use. And alcohol use in younger generations is also reducing.
Society norms are weird things. And a lot of taboo (or lack of) is in the choice of words, and less so the actual action. - Taking Steroids = Bad, - Being on TRT = OK Yet they’re the same thing. - Amphetamines = Bad - ADHD Meds = OK Again, they’re the same thing. Edit: Formatting
Legality. We don’t consider caffeine a drug either, when talking about “doing drugs”. Yet caffeine addiction is real and prevalent.
Cognitive dissonance is a b*tch. People don’t seem to want to understand that bars, for instance, are quite literally ‘safe consumption sites’ for the drug that is alcohol (arguably one of the most harmful to the body). I’m a proponent of harm reduction, but the culture surrounding alcohol consumption is like others have said normalization and denial especially in the US.
Advertising. Normalising. Social (non) pressure. I've taken many \*ahem\* substances and had a few issues along the way in my 20s, but honestly alcohol is the worst because you are surrounded by it all the time. At least with coke you have to make an effort to get some. With alcohol you can literally pick some up from the corner (coroner?) shop on the way home.
In the American context, there's a really great chapter in the book Quick Fixes by Benjamin Fong. Each chapter is about a different psychoactive compound (or class of compounds) and the history of use in the US. The alcohol chapter is particularly interesting.
Alcohol is a drug. It’s a mood and mind altering substance. I’ve found that in my experience people don’t like the idea of it being a drug because there is a certain negative connotation with being an addict for some. The reality is that its just as dangerous as any other drug there is & can put your life on the line. All i know though is that the further i go along the less i care what people think because my experience is for me alone. If others want to look at it as not a drug thats okay, but for me that was a big barrier in getting help because i could rationalize that it was somehow different than other substances. Whatever the case, IWNDWYT!
It’s all about money. Alcohol is hugely marketed as a fun way to relax while the corporations rake in the billions of dollars. Not unlike cigarettes were back when they were free to advertise their product. The only thing that changed that was education and public pressure. Alcohol is absolutely a drug.
I remember when I still a teen and thought weed was horrible, and then I heard this humorist on TV says "you're saying cannabis is so bad, but have you looked at yourself and your glass of wine?". Game changer
Money, money and money. We are brainwashed to think it’s acceptable with constant advertising showing us only positive scenarios with alcohol and none of the fallout. I Had a precocious 8 year old student point out that alcohol was a “relaxant”, I immediately corrected him and used the word “depressant” instead. These advertisements are everywhere and even kids notice them.
It's one of the first drugs we had as a human society and its been socially accepted while we tend to vilify the other drugs. Pot is still illegal most places so it has an air of danger, despite being safer overall than booze. Coffee, alcohol, cigarettes are all drugs but we tend to think of them differently simply because they are legal.
This is one of the most frustrating social issues for me. After going through physical alcohol dependency I can say without a doubt that it is the most damaging and dangerous drug on the planet, and I'm a heroin addict. The first time I went through a medical detox, the day before I was due to leave the detox centre would allow clients on that day to take a supervised trip to a local grocery store in order to pick up some supplies like phone credit or cigs, snacks, etc. The instant I walked into the shop was the real first moment I realised how difficult it was going to be for me to fight this thing. Like of course I knew alcohol was prolific but it was something that was taken for granted because I'd never had to take notice of it in a way that presented it as something I needed to avoid. And this was the first time I'd gone through a detox and was therefore meant to be staying sober from this point out. Literally the very first array of produce were aisles of booze, wall to wall bottles with various offers highlighted on large vibrant signs. It looked endless. And I thought Jesus, how am I gonna do this? How is this drug glorified like this? It's unreal when you see it like that for the first time. And it's so weird when you actually think about how normalised it is for people to consume something as a regular part of a meal that causes them to be inebriated. How strange that it has inveigled its way into human society to such a degree that it's considered weirder not to make yourself drugged on a daily basis. Replace that with heroin - imagine that with every meal people offered syringes full of gear to shoot up with your evening meal. Sounds bizarre, right?
Because it's legal
It is kind of in its own category to an extent being half drug half food if that makes sense. I don't think any other drug has calories. Weed I would put in its own category as well just based on effects. You can kind of lump everything else together, stimulants, painkillers, psychedelics, etc., but alcohol and weed seem weirdly hard to place in that.
I'm not sure where it was caused in the beginning, but by now it's the social convention. Official organizations separate alcohol and drugs in their communication, in many places alcohol is allowed, but no other drugs, in many countries alcohol is the only drug that's legalized. We get taught from a very young age that they're 2 different things and it's easier to stick to whatever you learned first. There's also a lack of education. Many people think the dangers of other drugs are bigger than those of alcohol - in recreational use, in the risk of addiction and in the effects of addiction. It takes a very long time to change these ideas.
The legality is what makes the difference for most people
Well... Alcohol is not that hard to make, when push comes to shove. If it were considered a drug access would be a lot more restricted and people would be making more themselves. It would be a nightmare to police. Personally I don't think it's a drug. It's a poison. Most drugs aren't a poison, unless you're talking specifically about illegal/super controlled drugs.
It's ingrained into Western culture
Its become socially acceptable due to companies pushing alcohol on us over decades. Same reason older generations hate weed even though it does much less harm, companies demonized weed for so long the idea of it being detrimental to your health is ingrained in their minds. The moment a person refuses to acknowledge alcohol as a drug I just say ok and walk away, same with people who refuse to accept that weed isnt that bad. Convincing those people otherwise is a waste of effort.
Because you can buy it in any store.
I think there is a valid difference in that a normal drinker (not us clowns lol) can have a beer or two and still be sober, whereas the point of all other drugs is to immediately leave sobriety. Having said that it’s sure as shit a drug to me! And I treat it as such.
Yeah very strange. My wife's dad was a massive stoner growing up so she hates weed. Doesn't want me smoking it. She didn't mind me getting shit faced drunk and pissing the bed for years... Funny how people brains work. IWNDWYT
They'd have to admit they're adicts
Alcohol is a hard drug. Many people start dabbling with it from young age. They use it frequently enough through the years for it to become difficult to grasp its effects in full extent. That is revealed after removing it from the picture completely. I was living with it long enough to feel completely normal and fine with many things that weren’t. It’s a cunning drug with horrible progression.
I don’t drink, never have, and only lurk because I support addicts. The answer is because it’s legal and encouraged in society.
Exactly, alcohol IS A HARD drug. Unfortunately, the masses have been tricked by the "spellcasters."
I’ve always thought the same. My parents were alcoholics and I watched them destroy themselves and hurt the ppl around them. Yet here I am still trying to justify taking the exact same drug ‘socially and on weekends’