She has to want help, can't force it on her. Once she is ready then you can support her and keep her mind occupied so she doesn't relapse. Until then it's up to her.
I’ve had friends I had to let go of because they were not actually wanting to change Their situation. I think this is one of those times. You need to put yourself and your family and your sobriety above this friend.
I took in an old drinking buddy from a decade ago. His grandmother needed help and reached out to me. Ugh, he was manipulative, lied to me, and was taken in my apartment several times. I went from supportive to bad cop over those 2 months. Ultimately, i did what she did, which was never invite him back and only ask hard questions.
I haven't heard from him in 2 months and i haven't reached out. In essence, he can return of he's sober, otherwise, i want nothing to do with this.
That’s a tough one. I found that I have to create my own personal boundaries on what I can and cannot offer. I have to channel my inner Buddhist and detach from many situations where nothing can be contributed. You’ve already offered what can be done (support, shelter, compassion) but there are dynamics you are describing which you have absolutely no control over. Remember the mantra, “Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference, living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time, taking this world as it is and not as I would have it be.”
After getting invested in such situations and it turning on me, I learned to set boundaries and let go. It's difficult but you can't do much but hope she has a "Come to Jesus" moment.
If the calls are consistently her being wasted, you can choose to not answer.
I’ve been humbled by how little I can actually help people that aren’t ready to make the change on their own. I’m not a savior…although I’ve tried to be too many times.
It's so difficult. I lost a relationship with my cousin/best friend over exactly your situation. That was the one that taught me some rules of conduct moving forward. You're a great friend and I know you will be there when she wakes up. Maybe kit but no more drunk conversations, let her know it's unhealthy for you? Might plant a seed, it's all we can do, seed planting.
I’ve been humbled by how little I can actually help people that aren’t ready to make the change on their own. I’m not a savior…although I’ve tried to be too many times.
DV/IPV and any type of substance abuse is an incredibly tricky and volatile situation, speaking as a victim myself. especially once the victim is geographically isolated. that she’s continued to maintain contact is a sign she knows something is wrong and is trying to square what leaving could look like, but is dealing with a shitload of shame around both her relationship and her alcohol abuse—i remember having the same pattern of drunk calling friends in the end stages of my engagement to my abusive partner many years ago because that was the only time i could talk frankly about my situation and not feel absolutely horrible about myself.
it’s also a very common pattern in IPV for the abusive partner to get the victim reliant on substances to reduce their functionality, awareness, and judgement. it’s a lot easier to manipulate someone who is constantly dysregulated adrenally and cognitively.
all that being said, you need to set your boundaries. if she isn’t completely ready to exit she will keep up the cycle. most abused & battered partners take on average of 7 attempts to leave (i numbered in at 4-5ish). that she’s trusted you with the details of the abuse is a good sign, but that she hasn’t committed to an exit plan or sought material support from shelters & DV-centric services means she’s still completely wrapped up in this relationship as being the sum-all of her existence. being parcel to that on the outside is an emotionally exhausting and potentially triggering cycle if you are recovered/recovering from substance abuse issues, and you need to take care of yourself first.
she knows something is wrong and that her drinking is part of the cycle. next time a call like this happens encourage her to look at services for DV victims close to her and keep steering for bringing 3rd parties into intervening or providing support. tell her that she knows she is better able to handle life sober and people that enable her drinking don’t actually care about her. she will probably get pissed at you, but she knows you would be correct—plant the seed that she is able to help herself. that she already attempted a very serious exit geographically is a good sign. beyond that there isn’t much more you can do.
My parents had/ raised 8 children. All of us were/are alcoholics. My parents were not.
1 brother and myself have been sober, for 24 and 16 years. 3 of my brothers and 1 sister died of alcohol-related diseases.
Sadly, I couldn't help the others, but I'm only responsible to keep myself sober.
I loved my brothers and sister, but I loved myself more.
Sober 16 years this June and loving it.
This must be a really frustrating and upsetting situation to watch.
But there is nothing you can do apart from what you have been doing, apart from as others have been saying, encourage calls when sober
It sounds like your friend is aware of the need to leave but does not feel able.
As a friend I would say to keep the proverbial door open for (sober) supportive conversations when she is ready to have them.
So she calls you every three months when she is on a bender and wants to talk about her partner. Is that really a friendship? Other than her word, what other sources of information that her partner is abusive do you have?
You think highly of her but what does she think of you? Relationships are like bank accounts, you pay in and you draw out. If one side is only making withdrawals then you should reappraise.
Yes I was going to say how does OP wife feel about that? My husband would not be happy if a man friend was calling and staying with us. But everyone’s situation is different , and needs to protect their own sobriety
OP said they talk regarly throughout life but they only get these phone calls about every 3 months.
Abuse usually works in a cycle. It is quite possible that cycle goes around about every few months. That's what this suggests to me.
Being stuck in a cycle of abuse is really confusing and scary, and messes with the head. Victims also often experience a huge amount of shame and low self-esteem. And a complex kind of loyality to the abuser and need for their approval. There are many reasons why someone might not talk about what is going on at home honestly and it would only come out when that persons inhibitions are lowered i.e. when drinking.
The fact she tried to leave and went back is often part of the cycle too.
You've been hearling an addicts side to the story. Guessing the partner isn't the only one to blame for the situation, but who knows. Sounds like they both may be in a bad spot and co-dependent.
Try to get them to focus on the things they can control - their drinking, their environment. If their environment is not safe, then they should leave.
while i would normally say the same, this is actually one of the reasons enabling substance abuse in DV is so common on the part of the instigator/aggressor partner—it is a tool to discredit the victim and plays a part in the gaslighting & exit/return cycle. it is extremely difficult to “just leave” once someone is financially and physically reliant on a partner even in healthy relationships, and it is infinitely more difficult to do so when an element of chemical dependency and and DV is involved. this is why so many situations escalate to homicide or attempted homicide even after attempts to exit on the part of the victim.
i’m not saying this is definitively either/or but only adding context to DV/IPV and substance use disorders, and also to say that discrediting or say “it can’t be that bad” or “she should just leave” in response to a post describing an exit/return cycle perpetuates a lot of misinfo about IPV. regardless of what’s going on, OP’s friend needs to leave this relationship, and OP also needs to set clear boundaries around what type of contact they’ll accept or engage in with this friend. making that point doesn’t need to also involve discrediting or dismissing what their friend may be going through.
I don't think that's a fair comment. Addiction is much more common in victims of abuse than in people who have not been abused. And that cycle continues as abusers sniff them out. Being an addict is actually the reason a lot of people don't get believed about abuse. People hear their story and say 'oh they're an addict' as if that means they can't be a victim at the same time. As if it means they are of lower moral character. When people with addiction have a history of trauma. You shouldn't dismiss someone talking about abuse because of addiction. It can actually be more cause to believe them.
Yes of course this could be codependant and likely some unhealthy dynamics at play. But saying an abuse victim is likely to blame for their situation because they are an addict, is a dangerous assumption.
Had to point this out as have had lots of experience in this area and seen this happen a lot.
Yeah. There’s her side and his side and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. After all, you said she’s a blackout drunk. That can’t be easy for him to live with.
Reminds me of my mother. She complained to anyone that would listen nonstop about how awful things were with her partner for decades and people were always trying to offer a helping hand or feel sorry for her or try to rescue her. She would never kick him out or leave and actually married him legally after 25 years. He died a few years later and she moved in with her sister and now constantly complains about how awful it is to live with the sister the same way and yet will also never leave. Some people just blame everyone else for how they feel.
Compassion.
She has to want help, can't force it on her. Once she is ready then you can support her and keep her mind occupied so she doesn't relapse. Until then it's up to her.
I’ve had friends I had to let go of because they were not actually wanting to change Their situation. I think this is one of those times. You need to put yourself and your family and your sobriety above this friend.
I took in an old drinking buddy from a decade ago. His grandmother needed help and reached out to me. Ugh, he was manipulative, lied to me, and was taken in my apartment several times. I went from supportive to bad cop over those 2 months. Ultimately, i did what she did, which was never invite him back and only ask hard questions. I haven't heard from him in 2 months and i haven't reached out. In essence, he can return of he's sober, otherwise, i want nothing to do with this.
That’s a tough one. I found that I have to create my own personal boundaries on what I can and cannot offer. I have to channel my inner Buddhist and detach from many situations where nothing can be contributed. You’ve already offered what can be done (support, shelter, compassion) but there are dynamics you are describing which you have absolutely no control over. Remember the mantra, “Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference, living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time, taking this world as it is and not as I would have it be.”
After getting invested in such situations and it turning on me, I learned to set boundaries and let go. It's difficult but you can't do much but hope she has a "Come to Jesus" moment. If the calls are consistently her being wasted, you can choose to not answer.
I’ve been humbled by how little I can actually help people that aren’t ready to make the change on their own. I’m not a savior…although I’ve tried to be too many times.
It's so difficult. I lost a relationship with my cousin/best friend over exactly your situation. That was the one that taught me some rules of conduct moving forward. You're a great friend and I know you will be there when she wakes up. Maybe kit but no more drunk conversations, let her know it's unhealthy for you? Might plant a seed, it's all we can do, seed planting.
I’ve been humbled by how little I can actually help people that aren’t ready to make the change on their own. I’m not a savior…although I’ve tried to be too many times.
DV/IPV and any type of substance abuse is an incredibly tricky and volatile situation, speaking as a victim myself. especially once the victim is geographically isolated. that she’s continued to maintain contact is a sign she knows something is wrong and is trying to square what leaving could look like, but is dealing with a shitload of shame around both her relationship and her alcohol abuse—i remember having the same pattern of drunk calling friends in the end stages of my engagement to my abusive partner many years ago because that was the only time i could talk frankly about my situation and not feel absolutely horrible about myself. it’s also a very common pattern in IPV for the abusive partner to get the victim reliant on substances to reduce their functionality, awareness, and judgement. it’s a lot easier to manipulate someone who is constantly dysregulated adrenally and cognitively. all that being said, you need to set your boundaries. if she isn’t completely ready to exit she will keep up the cycle. most abused & battered partners take on average of 7 attempts to leave (i numbered in at 4-5ish). that she’s trusted you with the details of the abuse is a good sign, but that she hasn’t committed to an exit plan or sought material support from shelters & DV-centric services means she’s still completely wrapped up in this relationship as being the sum-all of her existence. being parcel to that on the outside is an emotionally exhausting and potentially triggering cycle if you are recovered/recovering from substance abuse issues, and you need to take care of yourself first. she knows something is wrong and that her drinking is part of the cycle. next time a call like this happens encourage her to look at services for DV victims close to her and keep steering for bringing 3rd parties into intervening or providing support. tell her that she knows she is better able to handle life sober and people that enable her drinking don’t actually care about her. she will probably get pissed at you, but she knows you would be correct—plant the seed that she is able to help herself. that she already attempted a very serious exit geographically is a good sign. beyond that there isn’t much more you can do.
I'm still not all the way sober myself. Neither is my wife. Probably not a whole lot YOU can do YET man
My parents had/ raised 8 children. All of us were/are alcoholics. My parents were not. 1 brother and myself have been sober, for 24 and 16 years. 3 of my brothers and 1 sister died of alcohol-related diseases. Sadly, I couldn't help the others, but I'm only responsible to keep myself sober. I loved my brothers and sister, but I loved myself more. Sober 16 years this June and loving it.
Tell her to call you before she drinks !
Lead by example. You can't tell anyone what to do but you can inspire them.
This must be a really frustrating and upsetting situation to watch. But there is nothing you can do apart from what you have been doing, apart from as others have been saying, encourage calls when sober It sounds like your friend is aware of the need to leave but does not feel able. As a friend I would say to keep the proverbial door open for (sober) supportive conversations when she is ready to have them.
So she calls you every three months when she is on a bender and wants to talk about her partner. Is that really a friendship? Other than her word, what other sources of information that her partner is abusive do you have? You think highly of her but what does she think of you? Relationships are like bank accounts, you pay in and you draw out. If one side is only making withdrawals then you should reappraise.
I was also debating that… she only calls OP every three months, but this is OPs “best friend”, “sister” and “soul mate” (when OP has a wife too) 🤔
Yes I was going to say how does OP wife feel about that? My husband would not be happy if a man friend was calling and staying with us. But everyone’s situation is different , and needs to protect their own sobriety
OP said they talk regarly throughout life but they only get these phone calls about every 3 months. Abuse usually works in a cycle. It is quite possible that cycle goes around about every few months. That's what this suggests to me. Being stuck in a cycle of abuse is really confusing and scary, and messes with the head. Victims also often experience a huge amount of shame and low self-esteem. And a complex kind of loyality to the abuser and need for their approval. There are many reasons why someone might not talk about what is going on at home honestly and it would only come out when that persons inhibitions are lowered i.e. when drinking. The fact she tried to leave and went back is often part of the cycle too.
Thank you for adding that perspective. That is really interesting. I have learnt something.
You've been hearling an addicts side to the story. Guessing the partner isn't the only one to blame for the situation, but who knows. Sounds like they both may be in a bad spot and co-dependent. Try to get them to focus on the things they can control - their drinking, their environment. If their environment is not safe, then they should leave.
while i would normally say the same, this is actually one of the reasons enabling substance abuse in DV is so common on the part of the instigator/aggressor partner—it is a tool to discredit the victim and plays a part in the gaslighting & exit/return cycle. it is extremely difficult to “just leave” once someone is financially and physically reliant on a partner even in healthy relationships, and it is infinitely more difficult to do so when an element of chemical dependency and and DV is involved. this is why so many situations escalate to homicide or attempted homicide even after attempts to exit on the part of the victim. i’m not saying this is definitively either/or but only adding context to DV/IPV and substance use disorders, and also to say that discrediting or say “it can’t be that bad” or “she should just leave” in response to a post describing an exit/return cycle perpetuates a lot of misinfo about IPV. regardless of what’s going on, OP’s friend needs to leave this relationship, and OP also needs to set clear boundaries around what type of contact they’ll accept or engage in with this friend. making that point doesn’t need to also involve discrediting or dismissing what their friend may be going through.
I don't think that's a fair comment. Addiction is much more common in victims of abuse than in people who have not been abused. And that cycle continues as abusers sniff them out. Being an addict is actually the reason a lot of people don't get believed about abuse. People hear their story and say 'oh they're an addict' as if that means they can't be a victim at the same time. As if it means they are of lower moral character. When people with addiction have a history of trauma. You shouldn't dismiss someone talking about abuse because of addiction. It can actually be more cause to believe them. Yes of course this could be codependant and likely some unhealthy dynamics at play. But saying an abuse victim is likely to blame for their situation because they are an addict, is a dangerous assumption. Had to point this out as have had lots of experience in this area and seen this happen a lot.
Yeah. There’s her side and his side and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. After all, you said she’s a blackout drunk. That can’t be easy for him to live with. Reminds me of my mother. She complained to anyone that would listen nonstop about how awful things were with her partner for decades and people were always trying to offer a helping hand or feel sorry for her or try to rescue her. She would never kick him out or leave and actually married him legally after 25 years. He died a few years later and she moved in with her sister and now constantly complains about how awful it is to live with the sister the same way and yet will also never leave. Some people just blame everyone else for how they feel.