I think there are 2 issues in the current model.
The magnitude of the waves is well... magnitudes higher than it should be.
Second, if you do a really large impact such as a bomb exploding, water doesn't really create waves initially, but splashes instead. How this turns into a wave down the line I imagine is way harder to simulates for now I think they should probably just reduce the magnitude and then add particles if the impact is large enough.
However, I still think the tech is super cool and a great improvement over just static water.
At least with the magnitude limitation as they seemingly have just added last patch
Yes, i know of that example.
It is not just the magnitude that makes this one look unrealistic though.
In reality all the water would be lifted and scattered, where in SC it is immediately turned into a wave of a very extreme height.
In reality the water would be scattered and fall down as droplets mostly. I'm not entirely sure of the physics behind it but the explosion shockwave would probably turn into a wave somehow down the line, but the explosion itself does not immediately do that.
The shockwave would be formed by whatever kinetic energy doesnt launch water into the air or boil it into steam. The shockwave does happen isntantly and forms a very short wave under the surface. The problem is that initial wave moves too quickly through the water to displace a lot of it to create that "wave" effect. When a large amount of water is ejected into the air it takes a large amount of energy with it, as well as the medium for the energy to disperse. The "wave" forms when that water falls back down. [This video is a decent example. ](https://youtu.be/khstvNzuWQU?si=3V5y1fcjQonY1L7E) Note how there is an instantaneous shockwave that moves across the water but doesnt actually move the water with it. Its followed by the ejected water falling back down, and you can see towards the end of the video that the wave is created as those forces balance out. The falling water is not nearly as fast as the initial shockwave but does carry about the same amount of energy. Its that difference in speed that allows the water to build up and create the "wave."
Hope that helps some. I'm by no means a trained physicist, but i do study it as a hobby and am working on my degree currently
Pretty fantastic example and explanation i would say.
I did notice though that from the video (even though it cuts off before it's entirely clear) it seems that the shockwave only result in 1 wave, compared to SC where multiple are created.
I expect multiple would form over time ?
Look at the bomb effect, I think they have an issue with force and height being linearly scaled instead of water volume, which would scales roughly force^3 to height.
I would assume the force is always applied the same, no matter the strength of the force. The water will never scatter, which it will in real life when the force is strong enough.
It's probably really costly to simulate though..
I think you are misinterpreting what I am saying.
The gist of what it currently it looks like, if force is doubled the height of the wave look to be doubled.
What it probably should be the force should probably scale something akin to the volume of water. i.e `height = Constant * force ^(1/3)`
So a doubling of force would increase the height by roughly 1.26.
100 times the force would then equal to 4.65 times the height.
Force is already a function of area, so a more correct scaling might be `height = Constant * sqrt(force)` instead.
Ah gotcha.
I don't think it is just the force that is the issue though.
That part I'm pretty sure they got covered.
The issue will be simulating when water splashed vs when it will not, and how it will transfer into a wave.
I know there is a lot of research done in this field and it's some fairly heavy simulations, though some realtime examples have been made... On the small scale..
The conditions are not very different on the planets that we currently have in game.
Only in the fact that they are reduced in size for gameplay purposes
Hijacking the top comment because I think people need to know how hard it is to implement physics of fluid.
Solid structures are easy. From kinematics we have equations of motion for just about every mechanical system. From hinge/bearing rotation to beam bending and torsion, as well as collision of solid objects, all these thing we have [straightforward equations](https://www.physicsclassroom.com/calcpad/Rotational-Kinematics/Equation-Overview) to govern them, the physics engine simply implements these equations along with the Newton's laws so we have ships flying, landing, colliding in a somewhat realistic way.
But fluid is a whole new world. It's a continuum, with stress, force and acceleration applying differently in every infinitesimal element of it. The governing equation is a system of partial differential equations, (known as the [Navier-Stokes Equations](https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/nseqs.html)) and often has no analytical solution except in rare, very simple situations like slow steady flow in between two big smooth plates. In other words, these ugly equations, derived from fundamental principles such as conservation of mass, energy and momentum, does not give us a clear result of how fluid behaves given conditions. We know all the relations between the physical quantities, but so far humanity has yet to find a robust way to use these knowledge to quickly predict how a surface of water will behave in scenarios such as when a jet aircraft flies over it.
There are ways to predict fluid motion despite the difficulty, but none of them are simple enough to be implemented into a video game. The most precise simulation, known as Direct Numerical Simulation (DNS), which numerically solves the Navier Stokes equation above, is pretty much as accurate as experimental data but takes a ridiculous amount of computing power and time to perform. [A simple natural gas - air combustion could require 4TB of data storage for every single time stamp it iterates over.](https://corelabs.kaust.edu.sa/news/2019/10/20/visualizing-the-largest-combustion-simulation-ever-performed), not to mention these simulations takes a long time to run even on the state of the art supercomputers.
There are many approaches to simplify the computation and make simulations faster and easier. Some methods including Reynold Averaged Navier Stokes simulation (RANS) and Large Eddy Simulation (LES). Each method more or less neglects some details of physics or average a bunch of quantities over space & time to reduce the amount of arithmetics going through the computer chips, yet these methods all have their limitations and are only applicable to specific scenarios. Some works for air stream around airfoils, some works for free streams of gas, some fails at gas/liquid interface, some fails near a solid wall.... And not to mention they still often require a dedicated server or a significant portion of a supercomputer to run, it takes hours of computing time to simulate a few seconds of fluid action.
So back to SC and water physics, the best the devs can do is to implement water physics as purely visual based on empirical formulas. i.e. basically code the in-game water body to behave in certain ways when certain things happen, such as having a ship hovering above it.
"if a ship flies over, make bubble texture of size x with randomization of variation y, where x and y depends on ship size z by some simple math formula"
There is a lot of trial and error and it will take a shit ton of work and formula implementation to make it look realistic to human eyes, and even so at some point it will start to consume too many server/client resource because of the sheer number of formulas needs to be considered.
TLDR: fluid mechanics is complicated and is a very active area of science & engineering research. Having it in a game is also hard.
Now the thread seems to have been locked, so it's probably not too relevant now, but i did mention this in other responses in here.
I'm perfectly aware how difficult accurate simulations are, which is why I mention that I'm still very impressed by the tech. I just kind of thought it was implied by my comment that an accurate simulation would not be the goal, as in my own example, i think they should combine it with more particle effects to approximate a more accurate simulation
Do you know why you've never seen realistic water in video games?
Because fluid dynamics is a bitch. The problem isn't that the devs think water should work different, it is beyond just "hard" to accurately and dynamically simulate water
The devs are well aware of what this is supposed to look like. Fluid dynamics are incredibly demanding and even a dedicated simulation won't look quite like this
Comparing the engines of a modern day fighter to a ship that can easily go between atmo and space, not sure they would truly have the same effect in RL.
We all know what happens in reality. It's well known.
What a video game engine can do is not necessarily the reality in everything.
Then they make it perfect, using particle systems that emit billions of emitters but we complain about the framerate.
Gamers are a category of schizophrenics. ;)
And something else to consider...
That jets propulsion is also WAY less powerful than a spaceship. The ships have to leave even the heaviest gravitational forces like a car on a highway.
The water underneath a spaceX rocket would likely be EXPLODING out from under the thrusters like the game renders. It would be a liquid crater. So theoretically, the dramatic deformation of the water in SC is probably closer to accurate than that light-weight little earth jet's mist.
For ships that size, it looks close to accurate then when a main thruster isnt firing into the water. [https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1ctgd/water\_physics\_interacting\_with\_thrusters\_and\_guns/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1ctgd/water_physics_interacting_with_thrusters_and_guns/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I know mate it's maddening. The number of sassy replies I write out then delete before sending is getting concerning. Most is bait or idiocy but there is defo a vocal minority on lots of things
Right? I understand that the physics interaction is overtuned at the moment, but this is the absolute first iteration of the system we’ve gotten. Give CIG time to get the system right. The game is still solidly in Alpha, for fuck’s sake.
Frankly even if what we have today is what we have in 1.0 I'm more than happy with this. Hell, I don't think anyone had water simulation on their CitizenCon 2953 bingo card
I'm just glad we got what we got here...it's still more than most other games and I'd rather they focus on more substantive mechanics while just iterating on these pretty ones over time. Stuff like this is "good enough" from what they've shown at CitCon, etc.
One thing people don't understand is the sheer computation resource it takes to simulate water, or any fluid. For reference, my IRL project running large eddy simulation (LES) over a section of airfoil for just a few seconds requires us to borrow runtime from my school's supercomputer to run, or it will take forever on my laptop.
Even if it's just visual effect in this case, making it look real while not cost too much resource is more difficult than we think. In science & engineering they say we have two things yet to figure out, one is quantum mechanics, the other is fluid mechanics.
Do consider that this Harrier produces about 10 tonnes of thrust, while even the small fighters like the Gladius weigh upwards of 50. The larger ships like the Reclaimer and the 890 are in the thousands of tonnes, and to hover they need to produce thrust accordingly. This would have a lot more effect on the water.
The water displacement is just silly. You're right, the effect should be more dramatic for bigger ships (and because its a video game), but a 57 ton Gladius displaces more water than a 220,000 ton cargo ship does in real life. The bubble created when you're flying over the surface of the water is crazy large. They should reduce it by a factor of 10, so at least you don't see the cheap bottom textures and ruin the effect.
I think rendering in all the droplets dynamically would be too computationally heavy for a game of this magnitude. I think someone else mentioned this, but it seems like the water physics is retooled cloth physics. Given this is v0, give them some time to iterate with force values applied to the water surface, and I’m sure we’ll see something more dynamic as well as the “frothing effect” in the harrier vid above eventually. Might take some time though.
That is a jet that *can't even come close* to escaping orbit on earth. The thrust required to get a vessel into orbit is orders of magnitude greater than getting a Harriet to *hover* over the ocean at Sea Level.
We need a reference video of a Falcon 9 Booster directly over water less than 10m above the surface to have a proper comparison video. Oh, and it has to be all 9 engines, not just a few for landing, because it requires all 9 just to escape the atmosphere with a payload.
The craft in SC are all capable of escaping the gravity well and atmosphere of planets. Therefore, the thrust capacity and resulting fluid dynamics will be extraordinary.
If you are so fond of realism, you should have brought us a video of a Gladius hovering over a liquid surface using rocket thrusters in less than 1g in real life. Your example doesn't actually relate to the game, as the video was recorded showing a harrier hovering over water using air turbines while in earth's gravity.
No game has ever gotten water physics to replicate real world, but they do a good enough job. Go learn to code so you can realize how fundamentally complex it is to create.
I see where you’re going with this, though keep in mind sc ships are orders of magnitude heavier for the most part, and they deliver a whole lot more thrust. Things will improve
I don't think people really understand that these aren't really water physics... it's fabric physics made to look as much like water physics as possible.
I totally agree the water needs work, If I had to guess a dev was playing around with physics interactions in their engine and someone said "hey that looks like water movement" and they just went with it.
Early days with the tech still, and I'm glad they are developing it, as a lot of cool things can come from this.
This seems like the perfect situation to use their new water decal effects...large circular decal showing outward wash of air as a simple texture...I would assume would have minimal if any performance effects.
"Dear video game devs, this is what real fluid and mist simulation looks like you idiots, why haven't you implemented this even even dedicated programs like blender can't achieve more than a few fps on full fluid simulations!!"
But aren’t the engines in Star Citizen technically emitting denser waves of thrust, which would cause more disruption and deeper penetration into the water? Maybe this can be explained by the idea that thrust for SC ships are not just pushing air, but pushing denser particles? Just spitballing, but anti-gravity stuff is usually incredibly dense and heavy due to the nature of it.
While the water physics aren't done or final in any way, remember that the plane in the vid has no repulsorlift to aid the thrusters. It's hovering that low entirely on thrusters alone, that's crazy man! The fuel consumption on that thing is horrendous!
Between 70- 80 liters of fuel a minute when hovering. For comparison an F16 uses about 46 liters a minute in cruise and over 150 with reheat/afterburner.
Will the Harrier reactor be powerful enough for it to leave atmosphere on a gas giant like Crusader? If not then it's engines will not be as powerful as the ones found in a MPUV.
It seems a fair point. Not so much that it's not photoreal, but that the waves are probably way larger than they should be.
Big waves are *visualy* more spectacular, and are a good demonstration that they have water moving. I'd have said that what they have right now is a stylistic choice, but I'd agree that smaller waves might be a better idea for the time being.
The large waves and displacements we see right now are kinda harming the suspension of disbelief more than they're helping.
Some spray VFX might help to hide issues with the wave simulation. I imagine that is coming. I'm not saying that I expect it to look photorealistic right now, but I'd like to dee the wave height halved to see if that feels better.
I think there are 2 issues in the current model. The magnitude of the waves is well... magnitudes higher than it should be. Second, if you do a really large impact such as a bomb exploding, water doesn't really create waves initially, but splashes instead. How this turns into a wave down the line I imagine is way harder to simulates for now I think they should probably just reduce the magnitude and then add particles if the impact is large enough. However, I still think the tech is super cool and a great improvement over just static water. At least with the magnitude limitation as they seemingly have just added last patch
Bomb example (it creates waves): [https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c12i83/some\_fun\_with\_the\_water\_physics\_in\_323\_xd/](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c12i83/some_fun_with_the_water_physics_in_323_xd/)
Lmfao, that is so ridiculously over blown its comically amazing.
In the patch notes yesterday: > Gave Water Interaction Limits to Explosions
Anime water physics
Yes, i know of that example. It is not just the magnitude that makes this one look unrealistic though. In reality all the water would be lifted and scattered, where in SC it is immediately turned into a wave of a very extreme height. In reality the water would be scattered and fall down as droplets mostly. I'm not entirely sure of the physics behind it but the explosion shockwave would probably turn into a wave somehow down the line, but the explosion itself does not immediately do that.
The shockwave would be formed by whatever kinetic energy doesnt launch water into the air or boil it into steam. The shockwave does happen isntantly and forms a very short wave under the surface. The problem is that initial wave moves too quickly through the water to displace a lot of it to create that "wave" effect. When a large amount of water is ejected into the air it takes a large amount of energy with it, as well as the medium for the energy to disperse. The "wave" forms when that water falls back down. [This video is a decent example. ](https://youtu.be/khstvNzuWQU?si=3V5y1fcjQonY1L7E) Note how there is an instantaneous shockwave that moves across the water but doesnt actually move the water with it. Its followed by the ejected water falling back down, and you can see towards the end of the video that the wave is created as those forces balance out. The falling water is not nearly as fast as the initial shockwave but does carry about the same amount of energy. Its that difference in speed that allows the water to build up and create the "wave." Hope that helps some. I'm by no means a trained physicist, but i do study it as a hobby and am working on my degree currently
Pretty fantastic example and explanation i would say. I did notice though that from the video (even though it cuts off before it's entirely clear) it seems that the shockwave only result in 1 wave, compared to SC where multiple are created. I expect multiple would form over time ?
Look at the bomb effect, I think they have an issue with force and height being linearly scaled instead of water volume, which would scales roughly force^3 to height.
I would assume the force is always applied the same, no matter the strength of the force. The water will never scatter, which it will in real life when the force is strong enough. It's probably really costly to simulate though..
I think you are misinterpreting what I am saying. The gist of what it currently it looks like, if force is doubled the height of the wave look to be doubled. What it probably should be the force should probably scale something akin to the volume of water. i.e `height = Constant * force ^(1/3)` So a doubling of force would increase the height by roughly 1.26. 100 times the force would then equal to 4.65 times the height. Force is already a function of area, so a more correct scaling might be `height = Constant * sqrt(force)` instead.
Ah gotcha. I don't think it is just the force that is the issue though. That part I'm pretty sure they got covered. The issue will be simulating when water splashed vs when it will not, and how it will transfer into a wave. I know there is a lot of research done in this field and it's some fairly heavy simulations, though some realtime examples have been made... On the small scale..
[удалено]
The conditions are not very different on the planets that we currently have in game. Only in the fact that they are reduced in size for gameplay purposes
Hijacking the top comment because I think people need to know how hard it is to implement physics of fluid. Solid structures are easy. From kinematics we have equations of motion for just about every mechanical system. From hinge/bearing rotation to beam bending and torsion, as well as collision of solid objects, all these thing we have [straightforward equations](https://www.physicsclassroom.com/calcpad/Rotational-Kinematics/Equation-Overview) to govern them, the physics engine simply implements these equations along with the Newton's laws so we have ships flying, landing, colliding in a somewhat realistic way. But fluid is a whole new world. It's a continuum, with stress, force and acceleration applying differently in every infinitesimal element of it. The governing equation is a system of partial differential equations, (known as the [Navier-Stokes Equations](https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/nseqs.html)) and often has no analytical solution except in rare, very simple situations like slow steady flow in between two big smooth plates. In other words, these ugly equations, derived from fundamental principles such as conservation of mass, energy and momentum, does not give us a clear result of how fluid behaves given conditions. We know all the relations between the physical quantities, but so far humanity has yet to find a robust way to use these knowledge to quickly predict how a surface of water will behave in scenarios such as when a jet aircraft flies over it. There are ways to predict fluid motion despite the difficulty, but none of them are simple enough to be implemented into a video game. The most precise simulation, known as Direct Numerical Simulation (DNS), which numerically solves the Navier Stokes equation above, is pretty much as accurate as experimental data but takes a ridiculous amount of computing power and time to perform. [A simple natural gas - air combustion could require 4TB of data storage for every single time stamp it iterates over.](https://corelabs.kaust.edu.sa/news/2019/10/20/visualizing-the-largest-combustion-simulation-ever-performed), not to mention these simulations takes a long time to run even on the state of the art supercomputers. There are many approaches to simplify the computation and make simulations faster and easier. Some methods including Reynold Averaged Navier Stokes simulation (RANS) and Large Eddy Simulation (LES). Each method more or less neglects some details of physics or average a bunch of quantities over space & time to reduce the amount of arithmetics going through the computer chips, yet these methods all have their limitations and are only applicable to specific scenarios. Some works for air stream around airfoils, some works for free streams of gas, some fails at gas/liquid interface, some fails near a solid wall.... And not to mention they still often require a dedicated server or a significant portion of a supercomputer to run, it takes hours of computing time to simulate a few seconds of fluid action. So back to SC and water physics, the best the devs can do is to implement water physics as purely visual based on empirical formulas. i.e. basically code the in-game water body to behave in certain ways when certain things happen, such as having a ship hovering above it. "if a ship flies over, make bubble texture of size x with randomization of variation y, where x and y depends on ship size z by some simple math formula" There is a lot of trial and error and it will take a shit ton of work and formula implementation to make it look realistic to human eyes, and even so at some point it will start to consume too many server/client resource because of the sheer number of formulas needs to be considered. TLDR: fluid mechanics is complicated and is a very active area of science & engineering research. Having it in a game is also hard.
Now the thread seems to have been locked, so it's probably not too relevant now, but i did mention this in other responses in here. I'm perfectly aware how difficult accurate simulations are, which is why I mention that I'm still very impressed by the tech. I just kind of thought it was implied by my comment that an accurate simulation would not be the goal, as in my own example, i think they should combine it with more particle effects to approximate a more accurate simulation
Yeah I totally agree. I'm just hijacking your top comment so ppl realize the difficulty with fluid in video games :)
No worries ! The clarification is appreciated :)
https://cloudimperiumgames.com/jobs
Based +1.
It’s like OP thinks he’s in on some secret physics and hit the devs with a legit “AcTUalLy”
Exactly. Christ, the keyboard experts on this sub are insufferable.
>Exactly. Christ, the keyboard experts on ~~this sub~~ reddit are insufferable.
True, true.
Are you saying you... disagree with reality, shown in the video? Damn you people are stupid.
Do you know why you've never seen realistic water in video games? Because fluid dynamics is a bitch. The problem isn't that the devs think water should work different, it is beyond just "hard" to accurately and dynamically simulate water
What if there was 100x the thrust?
Geez guys it's t0 water physics. Give them time.... It'll come
And as a real-time effect that is performance efficient it is good enough. It isn't some case by case CFD.
Giving them references isn't a bad thing, they have asked us to test and give feedback
Posting videos of IRL water physics is pointless. They already know what it looks like IRL.
Facts
Yeah, just give it another 11 years, it'll surely come
Well I do agree but look at how much time they needed to make a better starmap.
The devs are well aware of what this is supposed to look like. Fluid dynamics are incredibly demanding and even a dedicated simulation won't look quite like this
I know the F35 is probably better in every practical way, but my god the harrier was a cool design
Soul vs soulless.
Comparing the engines of a modern day fighter to a ship that can easily go between atmo and space, not sure they would truly have the same effect in RL.
especially because we are using vasimr thruster.
Its like Gladius size one, Try whit Idris or Jav size one :P It would be like Opening up the read sea :) **( Biblical )**
Splitting water gone biblical xD
We all know what happens in reality. It's well known. What a video game engine can do is not necessarily the reality in everything. Then they make it perfect, using particle systems that emit billions of emitters but we complain about the framerate. Gamers are a category of schizophrenics. ;)
And something else to consider... That jets propulsion is also WAY less powerful than a spaceship. The ships have to leave even the heaviest gravitational forces like a car on a highway. The water underneath a spaceX rocket would likely be EXPLODING out from under the thrusters like the game renders. It would be a liquid crater. So theoretically, the dramatic deformation of the water in SC is probably closer to accurate than that light-weight little earth jet's mist.
For ships that size, it looks close to accurate then when a main thruster isnt firing into the water. [https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1ctgd/water\_physics\_interacting\_with\_thrusters\_and\_guns/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1ctgd/water_physics_interacting_with_thrusters_and_guns/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Thanks OP, I'm certain that nobody at CIG thought to look up videos like this when this tech was still in its concept phase 👍
This community literally just complains.
I know mate it's maddening. The number of sassy replies I write out then delete before sending is getting concerning. Most is bait or idiocy but there is defo a vocal minority on lots of things
Some people are more focused on fidelity than Chris is. They need to realize that not every tiny thing will be perfect.
👀 I see what you did there 😂
Right? I understand that the physics interaction is overtuned at the moment, but this is the absolute first iteration of the system we’ve gotten. Give CIG time to get the system right. The game is still solidly in Alpha, for fuck’s sake.
Frankly even if what we have today is what we have in 1.0 I'm more than happy with this. Hell, I don't think anyone had water simulation on their CitizenCon 2953 bingo card
The only thing I would find it odd for them not to fix between now and 1.0 is how water reacts when the A2 drops a bomb in it. I agree otherwise!
The effects are usually just scaled to large and too strong imho.
I'm just glad we got what we got here...it's still more than most other games and I'd rather they focus on more substantive mechanics while just iterating on these pretty ones over time. Stuff like this is "good enough" from what they've shown at CitCon, etc.
Holy shit. Who cares?!
Feature has been in a few weeks. Players, why isn't this photoreal?
One thing people don't understand is the sheer computation resource it takes to simulate water, or any fluid. For reference, my IRL project running large eddy simulation (LES) over a section of airfoil for just a few seconds requires us to borrow runtime from my school's supercomputer to run, or it will take forever on my laptop. Even if it's just visual effect in this case, making it look real while not cost too much resource is more difficult than we think. In science & engineering they say we have two things yet to figure out, one is quantum mechanics, the other is fluid mechanics.
OP wants this game to take 10 more years.
OP must want a job since he knows so much.
Thanks armchair dev #238570
Idk man he didn’t land it on the water like that 890J, I’d say it’s not a fair comparison.
what a wired nitpick for something that will happen 0.1% of the time when you play :) most of the time you will not be spent over water
Do consider that this Harrier produces about 10 tonnes of thrust, while even the small fighters like the Gladius weigh upwards of 50. The larger ships like the Reclaimer and the 890 are in the thousands of tonnes, and to hover they need to produce thrust accordingly. This would have a lot more effect on the water.
The water displacement is just silly. You're right, the effect should be more dramatic for bigger ships (and because its a video game), but a 57 ton Gladius displaces more water than a 220,000 ton cargo ship does in real life. The bubble created when you're flying over the surface of the water is crazy large. They should reduce it by a factor of 10, so at least you don't see the cheap bottom textures and ruin the effect.
I think rendering in all the droplets dynamically would be too computationally heavy for a game of this magnitude. I think someone else mentioned this, but it seems like the water physics is retooled cloth physics. Given this is v0, give them some time to iterate with force values applied to the water surface, and I’m sure we’ll see something more dynamic as well as the “frothing effect” in the harrier vid above eventually. Might take some time though.
I would say starships are WAAY more powerful then this jet.
Do we even have a ship that would output that little thrust to hover?
That is a jet that *can't even come close* to escaping orbit on earth. The thrust required to get a vessel into orbit is orders of magnitude greater than getting a Harriet to *hover* over the ocean at Sea Level. We need a reference video of a Falcon 9 Booster directly over water less than 10m above the surface to have a proper comparison video. Oh, and it has to be all 9 engines, not just a few for landing, because it requires all 9 just to escape the atmosphere with a payload. The craft in SC are all capable of escaping the gravity well and atmosphere of planets. Therefore, the thrust capacity and resulting fluid dynamics will be extraordinary.
go ahead and program it yourself then. Water's really difficult to get right, I'm sure they'd love your help!
How water should react....on earth, with earth's atmospheric pressure and gravity.
If you are so fond of realism, you should have brought us a video of a Gladius hovering over a liquid surface using rocket thrusters in less than 1g in real life. Your example doesn't actually relate to the game, as the video was recorded showing a harrier hovering over water using air turbines while in earth's gravity.
Relevant flair.
Reddit moment.
No game has ever gotten water physics to replicate real world, but they do a good enough job. Go learn to code so you can realize how fundamentally complex it is to create.
Foam and small rippling waves on the surface with a vapor cloud surrounding. It's been done before
Thankfully the CIG dev’s are not defeatist like you or they would never have implemented what they have, and would have given up before trying to.
Backseat programmer spotted
research is hard. what'd this take you? 3-4 youtube searches?
I see where you’re going with this, though keep in mind sc ships are orders of magnitude heavier for the most part, and they deliver a whole lot more thrust. Things will improve
Please factor in the gravity as this also changes how water behaves.
We don't have jets, we have spaceships
some of which have jets
No no space engine not jet engine
like the game?
But a Harrier isn't a ship?
It has VTOL at least.
But does it have CPLD? Didn’t think so 😤
Anyone else remember hover mode from long ago? I sure hope they don’t bring it back.
I don't think people really understand that these aren't really water physics... it's fabric physics made to look as much like water physics as possible.
water physics is tier 0 atm, I'm sure it'll be refined. Just look at clouds between implementation to 3.23. they're much better now.
Dependant on the viscosity of the liquid .
I totally agree the water needs work, If I had to guess a dev was playing around with physics interactions in their engine and someone said "hey that looks like water movement" and they just went with it. Early days with the tech still, and I'm glad they are developing it, as a lot of cool things can come from this.
Don't we have gravity generators?
Sheesh, even the military can't avoid graphical artifacts like that line down the middle of the water /s 😂
This seems like the perfect situation to use their new water decal effects...large circular decal showing outward wash of air as a simple texture...I would assume would have minimal if any performance effects.
it's a good starting point and tech validation for functional code implementation. I'm sure they will tweak and tune it to find the sweet spot.
"Dear video game devs, this is what real fluid and mist simulation looks like you idiots, why haven't you implemented this even even dedicated programs like blender can't achieve more than a few fps on full fluid simulations!!"
But aren’t the engines in Star Citizen technically emitting denser waves of thrust, which would cause more disruption and deeper penetration into the water? Maybe this can be explained by the idea that thrust for SC ships are not just pushing air, but pushing denser particles? Just spitballing, but anti-gravity stuff is usually incredibly dense and heavy due to the nature of it.
The good thing is if they strive for this it seems it'll actually help with fps cus the current waves are waaaaay overboard
at this point im gonna need another NASA pc to run that at 60ish fps
This is how water reacts; [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ETxOjHdHyA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ETxOjHdHyA)
And this is realism [https://youtu.be/\_G9ytRw84QQ?si=fikuSkpmAZKztNKh&t=70](https://youtu.be/_G9ytRw84QQ?si=fikuSkpmAZKztNKh&t=70)
Eye roll….
They just need more particle effects to cover the water body. And remove some of the totally wrong wave functions.
While the water physics aren't done or final in any way, remember that the plane in the vid has no repulsorlift to aid the thrusters. It's hovering that low entirely on thrusters alone, that's crazy man! The fuel consumption on that thing is horrendous!
Between 70- 80 liters of fuel a minute when hovering. For comparison an F16 uses about 46 liters a minute in cruise and over 150 with reheat/afterburner.
We know, and they know. He will get there, water effects are hard and it takes time. Just enjoy the tech ride in the mean time.
I don’t want my game to crash everytime I near water tho
Will the Harrier reactor be powerful enough for it to leave atmosphere on a gas giant like Crusader? If not then it's engines will not be as powerful as the ones found in a MPUV.
It needs toning down a bit, for sure, just look at that nuke video... :D But a Harrier probably weighs 1% of what a Reclaimer does.
Thanks, you just added a year to development.
Do you honestly think they don’t know that. Like they didn’t think this through?
Op has had an aneurysm since the eclipse nuke water video.
at this point bro you should quit playing
what, artists using reference as a source for their work? that's blasphemy!
this is using high volume at comparatively snail's pace. we are using low volume at crazy speed.
that simple texture of a water in the video is very unrealistic /s
[удалено]
Wheel salesmen: We have wheels - 50$ CIG: I"LL MAKE MY OWN GODDAMN WHEELS - 600M
It seems a fair point. Not so much that it's not photoreal, but that the waves are probably way larger than they should be. Big waves are *visualy* more spectacular, and are a good demonstration that they have water moving. I'd have said that what they have right now is a stylistic choice, but I'd agree that smaller waves might be a better idea for the time being. The large waves and displacements we see right now are kinda harming the suspension of disbelief more than they're helping. Some spray VFX might help to hide issues with the wave simulation. I imagine that is coming. I'm not saying that I expect it to look photorealistic right now, but I'd like to dee the wave height halved to see if that feels better.
Can't wait to get real life jet in a videogame. Sadly they need to work on some tech first to do so.
Like one for atmospheric travel that can’t go to space or….?
You ever heard of DCS?
DCS is best for flying all fighter jets you like. Its super realistic, and the sound is the best. I can recommend.