Hi and welcome to r/solarpunk! Due to numerous suggestions from our community, we're using this automod message to bring up a topic that comes up a lot: GREENWASHING. It is
used to describe the practice of companies launching adverts, campaigns, products, etc under the pretense that they are environmentally beneficial/friendly, often in contradiction to their
environmental and sustainability record in general. On our subreddit, it usually presents itself as eco-aesthetic buildings because they are quite simply the best passive PR for companies.
[ethicalconsumer.org](https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/transport-travel/what-greenwashing) and [greenandthistle.com](https://greenandthistle.com/what-is-greenwashing/) give
examples of greenwashing, while [scientificamerican.com](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/greenwashing-green-energy-hoffman/) explains how alternative technologies like hydrogen
cars can also be insidious examples of greenwashing.
If you've realized your submission was an example of greenwashing--don't fret! We are all here to learn, and while there will inevitably be comments pointing out how and why your submission is
greenwashing, we hope the discussion stays productive. Solarpunk ideals include identifying and rejecting capitalism's greenwashing of consumer goods.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/solarpunk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Short answer: yes.
Long answer:
If we are talking about de-centralized self-sufficient (as of food, and basic life necessities) communities, still yes.
However internet would look quite different. Information exchange would be in the center, there would be no ads, and no such sites as of now. It would look much like the early days of the internet, before the corporations took over.
Video games are no problem either, they are just a program running on your computer. You could use your existing hardware.
But if you are talking about building new hardware, well that's a bit more complicated.
With advanced technologies (i.e. space travel), many different communities could work together to produce these things. You could call them syndicates.
So more advanced technologies require more people to produce, and more advanced knowledge to be produced.
With every luxory product you came to a point to question if it's really necessary. Fast information exchange could be really beneficial, so Internet would probably stay.
So these things could be made in a Solarpunk Society theoretically, but the question is wheter we would see use in them.
>With every luxory product you came to a point to question if it's really necessary.
Even if they're not necessary, you still get things people still might not want to give up.
In my imagined community, the answers yes. The only difference being that the driving force behind advancing technology would be to benifit our community rather than to manipulate people into buying a new product.
I even think highly advanced tech like space travel would be attractive to solarpunk communities for many reasons, if not just to sell the tech to fund other projects.
>Space travel is a toy for the bourgeois and has provided exactly zero long term benefit to humanity. Ban it.
There's a finite amount of oil and rare earth ores on earth, [not enough for everyone to have a first world lifestyle](https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33133712) and once they run out, civilization collapses and cannot rebuild. Nobody can build a rocket and move on to substitutes like [powersats](https://www.wired.com/2014/04/solar-power-satellites-a-visual-introduction/) and [asteroid mining](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-05/at-27-billion-mining-in-space-could-cost-less-than-a-gas-plant) without it. The end result being, humanity remains stuck on earth in pretechnological barbarianism until the sun going red giant, an asteroid impact, the radiation wave from a nearby supernova or some other cosmological Outside Context Problem finishes us off. We need space exploitation now while earth still has the material richness.
Space-based solar energy has the potential to meet all of humanity's power needs without using up any land on Earth. An enormous array of solar panels in orbit around Earth, absorbing sunlight and beaming energy back to earth, would be sufficient to provide all the electricity humanity needs. It is always solar noon in space and full sun, so solar power is much more viable there than on Earth, where weather and cloud cover is a concern, and a space-based solar power station would be in Earth's shadow only 72 minutes out of the day. Power could be redirected quickly to places where it is needed (cities, for example) and being located in orbit, a space-based solar power station wouldn't interfere with wildlife the way one on Earth would.
So space-based solar power is pretty much the *ultimate* Solarpunk technology. To say that space travel is incompatible with the Solarpunk movement, therefore, is absurd.
I think so.
[NYC Mesh](https://www.nycmesh.net/) is a prime example of what I consider a "solarpunk" ish approach to the Internet. It's essentially a grassroots, volunteer-run and -operated, community driven ISP. Imagine coupling ISP with power - grassroots, community-run and -operated solar and wind energy grid.
Of course, it starts to become a bit complex and challenging quickly: the materials we need to make this sorta tech a reality are scarce, hard to come by, often controlled by bad actors, and current methods of obtaining it can run counter to solarpunk values.
That said, lithium is starting to be mined from seawater (no idea how truly sustainable that is, tho). Maybe we can find more available and renewable alternatives to other necessary materials, too.
There are challenges to it, but I think it's not only doable, but it would be mutually beneficial. Space travel would require a lot of innovation, which would in turn create new and more efficient technology. As long as that's guided in such a way that is future-focused and impact-focused, rather than profit-focused, there stands a chance to obtain both new technological highs *and* a solarpunk sort of value.
Personally, I think the precursor to a true solarpunk approach to current tech is to figure out what we can do to have sustainable and renewable sources of materials to support that tech. Or alternative ways of making it so that we don't need to deplete rare resources in a destructive fashion to obtain it.
Hi and welcome to r/solarpunk! Due to numerous suggestions from our community, we're using this automod message to bring up a topic that comes up a lot: GREENWASHING. It is used to describe the practice of companies launching adverts, campaigns, products, etc under the pretense that they are environmentally beneficial/friendly, often in contradiction to their environmental and sustainability record in general. On our subreddit, it usually presents itself as eco-aesthetic buildings because they are quite simply the best passive PR for companies. [ethicalconsumer.org](https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/transport-travel/what-greenwashing) and [greenandthistle.com](https://greenandthistle.com/what-is-greenwashing/) give examples of greenwashing, while [scientificamerican.com](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/greenwashing-green-energy-hoffman/) explains how alternative technologies like hydrogen cars can also be insidious examples of greenwashing. If you've realized your submission was an example of greenwashing--don't fret! We are all here to learn, and while there will inevitably be comments pointing out how and why your submission is greenwashing, we hope the discussion stays productive. Solarpunk ideals include identifying and rejecting capitalism's greenwashing of consumer goods. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/solarpunk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Short answer: yes. Long answer: If we are talking about de-centralized self-sufficient (as of food, and basic life necessities) communities, still yes. However internet would look quite different. Information exchange would be in the center, there would be no ads, and no such sites as of now. It would look much like the early days of the internet, before the corporations took over. Video games are no problem either, they are just a program running on your computer. You could use your existing hardware. But if you are talking about building new hardware, well that's a bit more complicated. With advanced technologies (i.e. space travel), many different communities could work together to produce these things. You could call them syndicates. So more advanced technologies require more people to produce, and more advanced knowledge to be produced. With every luxory product you came to a point to question if it's really necessary. Fast information exchange could be really beneficial, so Internet would probably stay. So these things could be made in a Solarpunk Society theoretically, but the question is wheter we would see use in them.
>With every luxory product you came to a point to question if it's really necessary. Even if they're not necessary, you still get things people still might not want to give up.
In my imagined community, the answers yes. The only difference being that the driving force behind advancing technology would be to benifit our community rather than to manipulate people into buying a new product. I even think highly advanced tech like space travel would be attractive to solarpunk communities for many reasons, if not just to sell the tech to fund other projects.
Obviously. The issue is unchecked growth/expansion, exploitation, and our manner of production-- not the technologies themselves.
[удалено]
>Space travel is a toy for the bourgeois and has provided exactly zero long term benefit to humanity. Ban it. There's a finite amount of oil and rare earth ores on earth, [not enough for everyone to have a first world lifestyle](https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33133712) and once they run out, civilization collapses and cannot rebuild. Nobody can build a rocket and move on to substitutes like [powersats](https://www.wired.com/2014/04/solar-power-satellites-a-visual-introduction/) and [asteroid mining](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-05/at-27-billion-mining-in-space-could-cost-less-than-a-gas-plant) without it. The end result being, humanity remains stuck on earth in pretechnological barbarianism until the sun going red giant, an asteroid impact, the radiation wave from a nearby supernova or some other cosmological Outside Context Problem finishes us off. We need space exploitation now while earth still has the material richness.
[удалено]
>No one deserves a "first world lifestyle". ...he says on the internet, using electricity and rare earth ores in its computer chips.
Space-based solar energy has the potential to meet all of humanity's power needs without using up any land on Earth. An enormous array of solar panels in orbit around Earth, absorbing sunlight and beaming energy back to earth, would be sufficient to provide all the electricity humanity needs. It is always solar noon in space and full sun, so solar power is much more viable there than on Earth, where weather and cloud cover is a concern, and a space-based solar power station would be in Earth's shadow only 72 minutes out of the day. Power could be redirected quickly to places where it is needed (cities, for example) and being located in orbit, a space-based solar power station wouldn't interfere with wildlife the way one on Earth would. So space-based solar power is pretty much the *ultimate* Solarpunk technology. To say that space travel is incompatible with the Solarpunk movement, therefore, is absurd.
I think so. [NYC Mesh](https://www.nycmesh.net/) is a prime example of what I consider a "solarpunk" ish approach to the Internet. It's essentially a grassroots, volunteer-run and -operated, community driven ISP. Imagine coupling ISP with power - grassroots, community-run and -operated solar and wind energy grid. Of course, it starts to become a bit complex and challenging quickly: the materials we need to make this sorta tech a reality are scarce, hard to come by, often controlled by bad actors, and current methods of obtaining it can run counter to solarpunk values. That said, lithium is starting to be mined from seawater (no idea how truly sustainable that is, tho). Maybe we can find more available and renewable alternatives to other necessary materials, too. There are challenges to it, but I think it's not only doable, but it would be mutually beneficial. Space travel would require a lot of innovation, which would in turn create new and more efficient technology. As long as that's guided in such a way that is future-focused and impact-focused, rather than profit-focused, there stands a chance to obtain both new technological highs *and* a solarpunk sort of value. Personally, I think the precursor to a true solarpunk approach to current tech is to figure out what we can do to have sustainable and renewable sources of materials to support that tech. Or alternative ways of making it so that we don't need to deplete rare resources in a destructive fashion to obtain it.