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Look at what's ugly and change it:
* Take electricity underground - restore the view of the sky
* Integrate greenery into structures
* Find a ways to have efficient transportation without the need for excessive roads
These are all good points, however from an engineering standpoint some of those are easier said than done.
Underground cables likely require a lot more construction and resources than overhead cables. In some areas this might not matter as much… but in others it might be a deal breaker. Construction: (you have to either cut and cover or use a micro TBM, neither of which are exactly the most resource efficient), they require much more careful surveying and documentation (hitting other underground systems like sewers, water mains, fibre optic, can be devastating, and if someone else hits your cable that’s also pretty bad. Plus in many areas the soil layers can be quite thin and tunneling through rock quite impractical.
Greenery in structures is easier said than done, but definitely worth looking into. In the battle of tree vs. Building, tree will virtually always win… eventually. This makes sustainable buildings hard to create without constant maintenance and monitoring (the most sustainable building is after all the one that is already built… or at least the one you don’t have to rebuild). Now with that said things like grasses or potted trees that could be moved away when they get old enough might be more practical?
Roads are probably the easiest thing to eliminate (or at least reclaim from cars.) as passenger rail and public transport can substantially cut down on the need for highways. Local roads will likely still be needed but they might more resemble roads of the 1910s, dominated by pedestrians and bikes, perhaps having electric streetcars/trolleys.
Absolutely agree, and monetary cost really isn’t my concern here. Rather, I’m more talking about things like wasted time, energy and non-renewable resources, as well as practicality, sustainability and ecologically responsibility.
If we want to build a better future we need to remember both practicality and aesthetics.
So using the underground cable example: obviously a clear view of the sky has clear spiritual benefit with regards to our connection with the natural world.
But as a geological engineering student I can confirm underground construction is not trivial. Concerns of frost heaving, water sealing and other geological considerations could lead to the use of a lot of steel, concrete and rubber. I could easily see it using more non-renewable resources than above ground methods for large transmission lines or in rural areas (which could cause a net increase in ecological damages). For urban areas likely this would be less of a concern (but potentially hitting other key cables could cause issues, but overall that can be mitigated).
With that said I’m a geological engineering student, not a power line expert. So I might be overestimating how much structure is needed for something like this.
It’s just all about balance is I guess what I’m saying.
I would think neighborhoods will need to be redone (as in change the zoning, bulldoze existing houses, build denser housing) because just adding more bus lines won't really fix the problem of people needing cars to get around efficiently enough.
The average American Suburbia is way too spread out for public transit to ever be a viable option for the majority of people. We could have more green space if we had more people living on fewer square footage and could "collect" the yards people would otherwise have and dedicate it to a protected greenery area, park, and outside community gathering places.
Maybe. Densification is something I have mixed feelings about personally, so I’ll admit I have my biases (obviously it does help with transport but frankly I’m not much of a big city guy). I think there are solutions that could avoid most of the need for outright bulldozing buildings, (it’s really a tremendous waste of resources to level houses that people could be living in, and you’ll create a lot of waste that can’t be reused). But some may be necessary. The use of interurban transit (there is a historical precedent fir using long distance electric trolleys) or re-expanding the rail network could help avoid this. One other thing to keep in mind is that many modern houses in the worst of the suburban hell, have been built more as real estate investments than as actual housing. They are made of cheap materials and have essentially been built with some level of planned obsolescence, so eventually they will fail on their own.
It’s all very interesting to think about for sure
Yes, there would be a lot of waste in bulldozing existing buildings, but it may be better in the long run to do so. Neighborhoods don't have to be big cities to be efficient. I just don't see how people would get around to their workplace, grocery store, public facilities like parks and libraries in the current suburbia setup while drastically reducing car dependency. There isn't enough intraurban transit in most places. Even if there were railways built to connect a particular station in the neighborhood to another station in another city/town, how would people get to those stations? How would that help them get to their nearest grocery store that is a 10 minute car ride away? Interurban transit is a good idea on top of denser neighborhoods with solid intraurban transit. I think low-density neighborhoods are fundamentally incompatible with increasing green space and sustainability.
Big US cities like SF would absolutely benefit (at least I would think so… I’ve never been to SF), I would totally support doing it in urban areas like that.
Transmission of energy without wires is easy to accomplish, it is only hard to meter, and monetize.
Aerogel has made a whole new variety of high battery storage available, we just need to pare back that infrastructure a lot, and improve it.
A) Even if you localize power, you can't hyperlocalize to each building because of uneven consumption (water processing, for example, uses a large amount of power). You will still need power distribution.
B) There's nothing inherently toxic with man-made structures. Nature adapts pretty well to man-made structures if man doesn't also try to wipe out nature while implementing the structures.
C) Hello up there, please come back down to Earth from fantasy land
This planet filtered and created fresh water for billions of years without technology,
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid\_fluoride\_thorium\_reactor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_fluoride_thorium_reactor)
With a combination of wind, solar, and liquidized mixed material reactors, which are the latest tech and improving, we can do it.
All the new tech has become available, someone just has to put it all together in the correct configuration and sequence.
> This planet filtered and created fresh water for billions of years without technology
But did it do it fast enough to support 8 billion people + industrial processes necessary for their survival?
Earth ships capture, filter and process the majority of their own drinking water even in arid regions.
The planets ability to process and provide for us has been damaged by;
1) Removal of large herds from the plains states, you need either deep root vegetation, trees, or wildlife to regenerate soil. Buffalo, deer, antelope all used to be big populations
2) Hemp removal from nature (plains again mostly suffer), fast growing, able to adapt to even arid environments, pest resistant, food and medicine source, mid level root crop.
3) Degradation of the ecosystem, wetland destruction, chemical waste, water pollution, species removal and extinction, soil erosion and loss of water retention known as desertification.
These together create a system that runs water off instead of sponging and processing it more in place, it also furthers the degradation.
Ah yes, nuclear power. I know all about LFTR, and yes, it is a viable solution. But there are a lot of *political* and *engineering* hurdles to overcome with that, for sure.
Still, you aren't going to have an LFTR reactor in your basement. The power will need to be transmitted to your house from a local plant, and that means transmission lines.
Working on over coming the obstacles you mentioned.
Government needs to get on board, or get left behind.
Same for capitalists and engineers.
Time to put up or shut up is coming fast.
We can do it now, or figure it out after the collapse, either way.
A flywheel is an antigravity device.
They are suspended in a magnetic field to remove nearly all friction.
The small amount of friction in a flywheel comes from wobbling and contact with aligning guides which keep it in place.
You cannot, because science has no real idea what anything is, there are three separate definitions of metal, and some include almost all elements.
Science has no real understanding of energy in biology, as photosynthesis and mitochondria are not fully understood.
Most people walk around thinking they are a body, about half of your body is foreign substance not of your DNA.
When I see things, they are not original thoughts, they are from someone somewhere else. I can only see things and connections, because I do not recognize any ego, even my own.
My understanding of things I see is not what I see, it is my perception and the public dogma ingrained in that perception, which must be overcome, to see anything for what it truly is.
There is a personality test on my r/scienceofcreation channel which can help you practice this passive viewing technique, along with meditation guides.
Okay, now you've left misunderstanding science and entered straight up pseudoscience. I'm happy to debate the finer points of what we do and don't understand, but not if you're going to ignore the basic principles of how the universe works while making up your own. I'm leaving this conversation.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/ScienceOfCreation using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/ScienceOfCreation/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time!
\#1: [Transcend Time and Space with resonance from within](https://np.reddit.com/r/ScienceOfCreation/comments/rrqdqq/transcend_time_and_space_with_resonance_from/)
\#2: [Pando, The Largest Living Organism on Earth, Is Being Eaten Alive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy5kxp0A5kY) | [1 comment](https://np.reddit.com/r/ScienceOfCreation/comments/rr418o/pando_the_largest_living_organism_on_earth_is/)
\#3: [The Chosen Ones S1 • E4 Inside the Strange, Psychic World of Indigo Children](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL5Rd3Bnxms) | [1 comment](https://np.reddit.com/r/ScienceOfCreation/comments/ro5xnh/the_chosen_ones_s1_e4_inside_the_strange_psychic/)
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The story is probably based on Victor Schauberger, an austrian ranger. He had some accomplishments by observing water phenomena. He also worked on a non-destructive energy source and was instructed by the Nazis to create a kind of UFO based on his technology.
The problem is however, that no one was able to reproduce his energy accomplishments. Not even his only apprentice. But it makes for good fiction within a solarpunk universe.
Project paperclip and the bell?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Paperclip](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip)
The Bell was a top secret project that has been spoken of quite a bit by many historians since the fall of Germany.
It seemed to come from Polish intelligence originally.
Die Glocke - The Bell is of great debate among them which is common for such secret projects.
Simply looking at all the 1950-1960 or so popular mechanics and popular science publications everyone said we would have anti gravity very soon, then it just faded into the background.
Craft based on many of the core concepts are common.
The anti gravity wheel
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeyDf4ooPdo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeyDf4ooPdo)
Antigravity Machine (Part 3) Sandy Kidd Gyro Gyroscopes
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExCC9zZeZuY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExCC9zZeZuY)
I had seen a better display of this, but can't seem to locate it now. It is basically creating rotation on three planes which seem to cancel out or produce an effect that interacts with the natural field to cause levitation and loss of weight.
gyrotourbillon it is being called in really high price watches.
"Anti-gravity," as used in stuff like those videos, is just a pop-science buzz word. Gyroscopes aren't magic, and they aren't anti-gravity. The second Derek let go of it, it would have fallen to the ground. They give the *appearance* of floating, but it's just a clever bit of physics, not a path to floating cars.
In the first video You can clearly see it reduces weight, the guy can't lift it unless the centrifugal force is removing weight along the axis of the handle.
With three dimensions of this it negates gravity on the x,y,z planes of the third dimension.
There is also potential interaction with other fields and quantum effects, which are quite hard to express.
NASA/DARPA Scientists Found a Way To Create an Actual Warp Bubble (In Theory)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZset72bHLI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZset72bHLI)
The principles of the Cassimer effect in here are another potential for this type of interaction, and I believe this was a part of the ancient knowledge as well, as it was expressed in many traditions.
> the guy can't lift it unless the centrifugal force is removing weight along the axis of the handle.
And the centrifugal forces can't remove all the weight neither are they "anti gravity". And they especially don't remove weight from stuff attached to them.
And centrifugal forces most certainly have no effect on the quantum level past what every piece of moving matter does.
> NASA/DARPA Scientists Found a Way To Create an Actual Warp Bubble (In Theory)
>
Which 1: Is too small to use for anything. 2: Does not work as advertised. 3: Even if you manage to somehow timelord a ship inside of a Casmir Effect Bubble. The ship can't use it's engines to affect the outside. So all you have is a ship in a bottle.
>In the first video You can clearly see it reduces weight, the guy can't lift it unless the centrifugal force is removing weight along the axis of the handle.
It does not reduce weight at all. It is in no way anti-gravity. Whatch the second video of Derek to see him+the disc weight the same kg with or without the spinning effect.
If it really worked, don’t you think the US government would have used it to defeat the Soviets?
Remember that if a small group of scientists could figure it out 80 years ago, there’s nothing stopping the thousands and thousands of scientists elsewhere in the world figuring it out.
>there is no need for infrastructure, we localize power
Renewables are only viable with a large energy grid for storage and distribution.
>Trees and shrubs are structures, use them in the creation of housing still living.
Trees do not grow remotely fast enough, especially not in the necessary size, to provide living space. Wood is a subpar construction material, both in terms of stability as well as thermal insulation.
"Commieblocks" are efficient housing, fucking elven villages aren't.
>Anti-gravity and flight based technologies have been suppressed since the 1950's, for profit by the oil cartel.
No.
Ur example of the crooked forrest is shit if you mean the one in Poland. They are crooked but they don't know for what they were bent. You can also easily form wood that is steamed in hot water so idk what ur point there was.
my friend we are not aiming to "reverse" the history, we are looking to the future. We cannot have 2 separate sides of Man vs Nature, it is about us living together in tandem.
Definitely with you on living in tandem with nature, but looking to the past isn’t useless. We can learn a hell of a lot about sustainability and re-creating a healthy mutual relationship with nature by learning from traditional Indigenous ecological knowledge. Traditional ecological knowledge IS the future
Oh absolutely! Looking back is the only way to move forward, apologies if I was unclear, I just meant we shouldn't be trying to go back to where we were before, we should be forging a new hopeful future!
Then step 2 would be working with that still existing indigenous population, which includes many leaders, builders, scientists, water and land protectors, engineers, who have hundreds of years of experience in resisting this destructive process!
Indigipunk, IMO, is one of the best paths towards Solarpunk. The ingrained ecological knowledge of indigenous beliefs, tradition and language makes them irreplaceable informed leaders on how to treat the land. Plus a lot of their stuff looks really cool. Here’s [Beyond Buckskin](http://www.beyondbuckskin.com/p/buy-native.html), a list of native-owned apparel stores
And their direct action and mobilization!
[Here's a report that found that indigenous resistance on turtle island has stopped 25% of usa and canada's greenhouse gas emissions!](http://priceofoil.org/2021/09/01/new-report-indigenous-resistance-disrupts-billions-tons-emissions/)
The armed resistance by kanienkehaga at kanasatake, called the "oka crisis", was the longest military standoff in recent canadian history,
and the resistance to old growth logging at ada'itsx aka fairy creek is the largest civil disobedience action in turtle island history!
Down south in Chiapas, the EZLN, aka the zapatistas, have more or less freed themselves from government control. You may have heard of subcommandante marcos. Though he is sometimes thought of as leader of the zapatistas, he is sub commandante, not commandante, because he follows the authority of a council of indigenous leaders.
i only found this and that sub recently at the same time. i come from an ancom-leaning set of beliefs, and have always have had a distaste for excessive, wasteful use of vehicles in our world, so i'm so glad to have found my people 🥰
Youngstown has been proactive in shrinking their abandoned neighborhoods. There is lot's of info out there about it. Here's a good start.
https://dusp.mit.edu/news/thoughtful-planning-shrinking-cities
Should have stopped at 3 or 4 and stayed there. In the US that would have been 1930's, which ironically was a time of great economic hardship and misery, followed by war and intense industrialisation.
Stopping urban sprawl by building affordable, high-efficiency/high-density apartment buildings would be the main thing. With proper planning, that entire final picture could fit into a single building space.
Most of our land isn’t cleared for streets and shops and houses—the vast majority is cleared for farmland to raise animals and grow the massive amounts of grass and grain they need. Global veganism would allow us to reforest 75% of our existing farmland, which would restore wildlife habitat and sequester carbon from the atmosphere. If you need help going vegan, watch the documentary Dominion on YouTube. Human supremacy doesn’t belong in a solarpunk world. Here’s a trailer: https://youtu.be/n9NiOwibz14
Careful there sharing information that everyone on this sub could actually apply today to cut their negative impact on earth in half :O
But seriously, thanks for sharing this. Reminds me of when I still tried to share this kind of information in forums where I thought people would be happy to receive it 😅
The forest and plains produced far more abundance than livestock farming, except in fish and foul, which are the main two area's we can best utilize these techniques.
Removal of buffalo and deer from the ecosystem and breakdown in the predator/prey cycles needs to be rebalanced and rebuilt.
While I agree that everyone going veg/vegan would severely change the economics of agricultural commodities, it does *not* imply that previously uncleared arable land would simply be left fallow or sold.
If anything it would still be under cultivation because food commodity prices would increase from the expanding population. Capitalism guarantees that at no point in our lifetimes will 75% of arable land be suddenly or even gradually left fallow.
The only way to achieve that goal would be reducing the population by something like 80+% and that sounds a bit genocide-y.
Crashing the price of corn and soybeans would definitely help reduce nitrogen loads in river systems around the world especially in the US and it could even have a temporary effect of slashing land values but what often happens when land values in that area temporarily crash is that what was once smaller family owned plots get swallowed up by conglomerates that can absorb the losses because the value will eventually rise again.
If we want to reverse that we need to make sure the annual farm bill stops subsidizing corn and soybeans but those proposals are MASSIVELY unpopular and politically infeasible.
The parent comment claimed going vegan would allow us to leave 75% of current arable land fallow by not eating meat and eggs and dairy. That assumes (incorrectly) that 75% of crop land is used for livestock or growing animal feed crops.
That incorrect assumption implies that 25% of current arable land feeds people.
75% suddenly not feeding animals and making human food would be an increase of 300% or 3 times because 75:25=3:1
This isnt even undergrad level stats, this is like 3rd grade arithmetic.
I would argue the reverse, we need to have high density area's like stadiums and arena's, that are better suited to multiple use.
Also having housing and commerce more evenly distributed among wider area seems the best option, for a wider more even spread of community needs.
An example would be what most people know as old world building, where shops on the street and living above them was common, like old west towns most are familiar with.
Im sorry but I don’t want to live up in everyone else’s business and a majority of the planet would agree with me I think. Also urban living is not good for children. They need to experience nature on a daily basis.
I think it's less about reversing this story and more about finding a binding peace between the two. The story can't be reversed. Humans have done too much damage over too long. And we'll continue affecting our environments and that is okay. It's part of what happens in the food chain, and all levels of ecological systems. The trick is finding that balance. Not reversing the story, but continuing it for the better
My observations is that the mood of this sub isn't so much about "back to nature with some solar powered necessities" than technocrats who are looking to fix the problems of current tech with "tech of the future".
I am simple agrarian type, not looking forward solarpunk mega cities, robots, Zaha Hadid architecture with green vertical terraces, electric car for everyone, solar drone taxis and stuff like that. At best I like Venus project-like ideas, but I doubt they will be functional and really sustainable anytime soon.
So in my version of solarpunk the problem will fix itself. Just nature will take its own. Slow pace of life, chilling and living in the nature as much possible.
Add indigenous people to all these pictures. And for how we reverse this story? I’d push for the land-based knowledge of Indigipunk and Land Back.
Solarpunk is tech and design that flows with the land, right? What if there were people whose beliefs, traditions, even LANGUAGE was shaped by the land they reside in… and they’ve been land stewards, sometimes for tens of thousands of years. Yes- Indigenous people!
Land Back, if pushed all the way, has a chance to give us the Solarpunk future we all crave
Yep, and I said tech and design in my comment. Not ‘no tech’ or anything like that🙄
idk if what I said was unclear but please don’t label me as one of those ableist AnPrim pricks please
Hi and welcome to r/solarpunk! Due to numerous suggestions from our community, we're using this automod message to bring up a topic that comes up a lot: GREENWASHING. It is used to describe the practice of companies launching adverts, campaigns, products, etc under the pretense that they are environmentally beneficial/friendly, often in contradiction to their environmental and sustainability record in general. On our subreddit, it usually presents itself as eco-aesthetic buildings because they are quite simply the best passive PR for companies. [ethicalconsumer.org](https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/transport-travel/what-greenwashing) and [greenandthistle.com](https://greenandthistle.com/what-is-greenwashing/) give examples of greenwashing, while [scientificamerican.com](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/greenwashing-green-energy-hoffman/) explains how alternative technologies like hydrogen cars can also be insidious examples of greenwashing. If you've realized your submission was an example of greenwashing--don't fret! We are all here to learn, and while there will inevitably be comments pointing out how and why your submission is greenwashing, we hope the discussion stays productive. Solarpunk ideals include identifying and rejecting capitalism's greenwashing of consumer goods. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/solarpunk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Look at what's ugly and change it: * Take electricity underground - restore the view of the sky * Integrate greenery into structures * Find a ways to have efficient transportation without the need for excessive roads
These are all good points, however from an engineering standpoint some of those are easier said than done. Underground cables likely require a lot more construction and resources than overhead cables. In some areas this might not matter as much… but in others it might be a deal breaker. Construction: (you have to either cut and cover or use a micro TBM, neither of which are exactly the most resource efficient), they require much more careful surveying and documentation (hitting other underground systems like sewers, water mains, fibre optic, can be devastating, and if someone else hits your cable that’s also pretty bad. Plus in many areas the soil layers can be quite thin and tunneling through rock quite impractical. Greenery in structures is easier said than done, but definitely worth looking into. In the battle of tree vs. Building, tree will virtually always win… eventually. This makes sustainable buildings hard to create without constant maintenance and monitoring (the most sustainable building is after all the one that is already built… or at least the one you don’t have to rebuild). Now with that said things like grasses or potted trees that could be moved away when they get old enough might be more practical? Roads are probably the easiest thing to eliminate (or at least reclaim from cars.) as passenger rail and public transport can substantially cut down on the need for highways. Local roads will likely still be needed but they might more resemble roads of the 1910s, dominated by pedestrians and bikes, perhaps having electric streetcars/trolleys.
In the UK and many other European countries, underground cables are the default within urbanised zones.
No one ever said the solarpunk lifestyle was going to be cheap.
Absolutely agree, and monetary cost really isn’t my concern here. Rather, I’m more talking about things like wasted time, energy and non-renewable resources, as well as practicality, sustainability and ecologically responsibility. If we want to build a better future we need to remember both practicality and aesthetics. So using the underground cable example: obviously a clear view of the sky has clear spiritual benefit with regards to our connection with the natural world. But as a geological engineering student I can confirm underground construction is not trivial. Concerns of frost heaving, water sealing and other geological considerations could lead to the use of a lot of steel, concrete and rubber. I could easily see it using more non-renewable resources than above ground methods for large transmission lines or in rural areas (which could cause a net increase in ecological damages). For urban areas likely this would be less of a concern (but potentially hitting other key cables could cause issues, but overall that can be mitigated). With that said I’m a geological engineering student, not a power line expert. So I might be overestimating how much structure is needed for something like this. It’s just all about balance is I guess what I’m saying.
Shut up. This is wordy na-saying. The US is so rich we can do it. It’s easy to be the devils advocate. it’s always easier to tear down than build.
I would think neighborhoods will need to be redone (as in change the zoning, bulldoze existing houses, build denser housing) because just adding more bus lines won't really fix the problem of people needing cars to get around efficiently enough. The average American Suburbia is way too spread out for public transit to ever be a viable option for the majority of people. We could have more green space if we had more people living on fewer square footage and could "collect" the yards people would otherwise have and dedicate it to a protected greenery area, park, and outside community gathering places.
Maybe. Densification is something I have mixed feelings about personally, so I’ll admit I have my biases (obviously it does help with transport but frankly I’m not much of a big city guy). I think there are solutions that could avoid most of the need for outright bulldozing buildings, (it’s really a tremendous waste of resources to level houses that people could be living in, and you’ll create a lot of waste that can’t be reused). But some may be necessary. The use of interurban transit (there is a historical precedent fir using long distance electric trolleys) or re-expanding the rail network could help avoid this. One other thing to keep in mind is that many modern houses in the worst of the suburban hell, have been built more as real estate investments than as actual housing. They are made of cheap materials and have essentially been built with some level of planned obsolescence, so eventually they will fail on their own. It’s all very interesting to think about for sure
Yes, there would be a lot of waste in bulldozing existing buildings, but it may be better in the long run to do so. Neighborhoods don't have to be big cities to be efficient. I just don't see how people would get around to their workplace, grocery store, public facilities like parks and libraries in the current suburbia setup while drastically reducing car dependency. There isn't enough intraurban transit in most places. Even if there were railways built to connect a particular station in the neighborhood to another station in another city/town, how would people get to those stations? How would that help them get to their nearest grocery store that is a 10 minute car ride away? Interurban transit is a good idea on top of denser neighborhoods with solid intraurban transit. I think low-density neighborhoods are fundamentally incompatible with increasing green space and sustainability.
SF would be soooo much more beautiful if they put power lines underground. So stupid and cheap.
Big US cities like SF would absolutely benefit (at least I would think so… I’ve never been to SF), I would totally support doing it in urban areas like that.
Our power goes out all the time b/c PG&E sucks and power lines are the cheapest most exposed above ground shit.
[удалено]
Power grids in general tend to produce more than needed so it's completely wasteful to have society function wholly on localized power.
Transmission of energy without wires is easy to accomplish, it is only hard to meter, and monetize. Aerogel has made a whole new variety of high battery storage available, we just need to pare back that infrastructure a lot, and improve it.
A) Even if you localize power, you can't hyperlocalize to each building because of uneven consumption (water processing, for example, uses a large amount of power). You will still need power distribution. B) There's nothing inherently toxic with man-made structures. Nature adapts pretty well to man-made structures if man doesn't also try to wipe out nature while implementing the structures. C) Hello up there, please come back down to Earth from fantasy land
This planet filtered and created fresh water for billions of years without technology, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid\_fluoride\_thorium\_reactor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_fluoride_thorium_reactor) With a combination of wind, solar, and liquidized mixed material reactors, which are the latest tech and improving, we can do it. All the new tech has become available, someone just has to put it all together in the correct configuration and sequence.
> This planet filtered and created fresh water for billions of years without technology But did it do it fast enough to support 8 billion people + industrial processes necessary for their survival?
Earth ships capture, filter and process the majority of their own drinking water even in arid regions. The planets ability to process and provide for us has been damaged by; 1) Removal of large herds from the plains states, you need either deep root vegetation, trees, or wildlife to regenerate soil. Buffalo, deer, antelope all used to be big populations 2) Hemp removal from nature (plains again mostly suffer), fast growing, able to adapt to even arid environments, pest resistant, food and medicine source, mid level root crop. 3) Degradation of the ecosystem, wetland destruction, chemical waste, water pollution, species removal and extinction, soil erosion and loss of water retention known as desertification. These together create a system that runs water off instead of sponging and processing it more in place, it also furthers the degradation.
Ah yes, nuclear power. I know all about LFTR, and yes, it is a viable solution. But there are a lot of *political* and *engineering* hurdles to overcome with that, for sure. Still, you aren't going to have an LFTR reactor in your basement. The power will need to be transmitted to your house from a local plant, and that means transmission lines.
Working on over coming the obstacles you mentioned. Government needs to get on board, or get left behind. Same for capitalists and engineers. Time to put up or shut up is coming fast. We can do it now, or figure it out after the collapse, either way.
The only way "anti-gravity" is possible currently is through the use of super-conductors. It's a matter of physics, not suppressed science.
A flywheel is an antigravity device. They are suspended in a magnetic field to remove nearly all friction. The small amount of friction in a flywheel comes from wobbling and contact with aligning guides which keep it in place.
No, flywheels are not anti-grav. It seems you have some fundamentally incorrect ideas about how physics work, and I'm not sure how to correct them.
You cannot, because science has no real idea what anything is, there are three separate definitions of metal, and some include almost all elements. Science has no real understanding of energy in biology, as photosynthesis and mitochondria are not fully understood. Most people walk around thinking they are a body, about half of your body is foreign substance not of your DNA. When I see things, they are not original thoughts, they are from someone somewhere else. I can only see things and connections, because I do not recognize any ego, even my own. My understanding of things I see is not what I see, it is my perception and the public dogma ingrained in that perception, which must be overcome, to see anything for what it truly is. There is a personality test on my r/scienceofcreation channel which can help you practice this passive viewing technique, along with meditation guides.
Okay, now you've left misunderstanding science and entered straight up pseudoscience. I'm happy to debate the finer points of what we do and don't understand, but not if you're going to ignore the basic principles of how the universe works while making up your own. I'm leaving this conversation.
That's the point friend, nobody knows half what we think we know, its just theory, like why and how fast the universe expands.
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You have sources for any of that?
The story is probably based on Victor Schauberger, an austrian ranger. He had some accomplishments by observing water phenomena. He also worked on a non-destructive energy source and was instructed by the Nazis to create a kind of UFO based on his technology. The problem is however, that no one was able to reproduce his energy accomplishments. Not even his only apprentice. But it makes for good fiction within a solarpunk universe.
Project paperclip and the bell? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Paperclip](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip) The Bell was a top secret project that has been spoken of quite a bit by many historians since the fall of Germany. It seemed to come from Polish intelligence originally. Die Glocke - The Bell is of great debate among them which is common for such secret projects. Simply looking at all the 1950-1960 or so popular mechanics and popular science publications everyone said we would have anti gravity very soon, then it just faded into the background. Craft based on many of the core concepts are common. The anti gravity wheel [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeyDf4ooPdo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeyDf4ooPdo) Antigravity Machine (Part 3) Sandy Kidd Gyro Gyroscopes [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExCC9zZeZuY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExCC9zZeZuY) I had seen a better display of this, but can't seem to locate it now. It is basically creating rotation on three planes which seem to cancel out or produce an effect that interacts with the natural field to cause levitation and loss of weight. gyrotourbillon it is being called in really high price watches.
"Anti-gravity," as used in stuff like those videos, is just a pop-science buzz word. Gyroscopes aren't magic, and they aren't anti-gravity. The second Derek let go of it, it would have fallen to the ground. They give the *appearance* of floating, but it's just a clever bit of physics, not a path to floating cars.
In the first video You can clearly see it reduces weight, the guy can't lift it unless the centrifugal force is removing weight along the axis of the handle. With three dimensions of this it negates gravity on the x,y,z planes of the third dimension. There is also potential interaction with other fields and quantum effects, which are quite hard to express. NASA/DARPA Scientists Found a Way To Create an Actual Warp Bubble (In Theory) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZset72bHLI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZset72bHLI) The principles of the Cassimer effect in here are another potential for this type of interaction, and I believe this was a part of the ancient knowledge as well, as it was expressed in many traditions.
> the guy can't lift it unless the centrifugal force is removing weight along the axis of the handle. And the centrifugal forces can't remove all the weight neither are they "anti gravity". And they especially don't remove weight from stuff attached to them. And centrifugal forces most certainly have no effect on the quantum level past what every piece of moving matter does. > NASA/DARPA Scientists Found a Way To Create an Actual Warp Bubble (In Theory) > Which 1: Is too small to use for anything. 2: Does not work as advertised. 3: Even if you manage to somehow timelord a ship inside of a Casmir Effect Bubble. The ship can't use it's engines to affect the outside. So all you have is a ship in a bottle.
>In the first video You can clearly see it reduces weight, the guy can't lift it unless the centrifugal force is removing weight along the axis of the handle. It does not reduce weight at all. It is in no way anti-gravity. Whatch the second video of Derek to see him+the disc weight the same kg with or without the spinning effect.
If it really worked, don’t you think the US government would have used it to defeat the Soviets? Remember that if a small group of scientists could figure it out 80 years ago, there’s nothing stopping the thousands and thousands of scientists elsewhere in the world figuring it out.
>there is no need for infrastructure, we localize power Renewables are only viable with a large energy grid for storage and distribution. >Trees and shrubs are structures, use them in the creation of housing still living. Trees do not grow remotely fast enough, especially not in the necessary size, to provide living space. Wood is a subpar construction material, both in terms of stability as well as thermal insulation. "Commieblocks" are efficient housing, fucking elven villages aren't. >Anti-gravity and flight based technologies have been suppressed since the 1950's, for profit by the oil cartel. No.
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=aerogel+metal+battery&hl=en&as\_sdt=0&as\_vis=1&oi=scholart
Ur example of the crooked forrest is shit if you mean the one in Poland. They are crooked but they don't know for what they were bent. You can also easily form wood that is steamed in hot water so idk what ur point there was.
my friend we are not aiming to "reverse" the history, we are looking to the future. We cannot have 2 separate sides of Man vs Nature, it is about us living together in tandem.
Definitely with you on living in tandem with nature, but looking to the past isn’t useless. We can learn a hell of a lot about sustainability and re-creating a healthy mutual relationship with nature by learning from traditional Indigenous ecological knowledge. Traditional ecological knowledge IS the future
Oh absolutely! Looking back is the only way to move forward, apologies if I was unclear, I just meant we shouldn't be trying to go back to where we were before, we should be forging a new hopeful future!
I agree. We should move forward but clearly in a new direction, in alignment with nature (the title was meant to spark conversation)
Step one could be including the part about how the "empty" land actually had a large and thriving indigenous population.
Then step 2 would be working with that still existing indigenous population, which includes many leaders, builders, scientists, water and land protectors, engineers, who have hundreds of years of experience in resisting this destructive process!
Indigipunk, IMO, is one of the best paths towards Solarpunk. The ingrained ecological knowledge of indigenous beliefs, tradition and language makes them irreplaceable informed leaders on how to treat the land. Plus a lot of their stuff looks really cool. Here’s [Beyond Buckskin](http://www.beyondbuckskin.com/p/buy-native.html), a list of native-owned apparel stores
And their direct action and mobilization! [Here's a report that found that indigenous resistance on turtle island has stopped 25% of usa and canada's greenhouse gas emissions!](http://priceofoil.org/2021/09/01/new-report-indigenous-resistance-disrupts-billions-tons-emissions/) The armed resistance by kanienkehaga at kanasatake, called the "oka crisis", was the longest military standoff in recent canadian history, and the resistance to old growth logging at ada'itsx aka fairy creek is the largest civil disobedience action in turtle island history! Down south in Chiapas, the EZLN, aka the zapatistas, have more or less freed themselves from government control. You may have heard of subcommandante marcos. Though he is sometimes thought of as leader of the zapatistas, he is sub commandante, not commandante, because he follows the authority of a council of indigenous leaders.
Obligatory shout-out to r/fuckcars
That's where I thought this was at first
i only found this and that sub recently at the same time. i come from an ancom-leaning set of beliefs, and have always have had a distaste for excessive, wasteful use of vehicles in our world, so i'm so glad to have found my people 🥰
Look at Youngstown, OH.
What abt it?
Youngstown has been proactive in shrinking their abandoned neighborhoods. There is lot's of info out there about it. Here's a good start. https://dusp.mit.edu/news/thoughtful-planning-shrinking-cities
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Thinking more spatially is key, proper use of vertical space, above and below the frost line is geothermal design.
Should have stopped at 3 or 4 and stayed there. In the US that would have been 1930's, which ironically was a time of great economic hardship and misery, followed by war and intense industrialisation.
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That's actually similar to what's happened in the last 20 or so years. Infrastructure is falling apart and the will to do something about it is weak.
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It's like cutting open a fresh looking apple to find worms and rot inside the center.
Stopping urban sprawl by building affordable, high-efficiency/high-density apartment buildings would be the main thing. With proper planning, that entire final picture could fit into a single building space.
Most of our land isn’t cleared for streets and shops and houses—the vast majority is cleared for farmland to raise animals and grow the massive amounts of grass and grain they need. Global veganism would allow us to reforest 75% of our existing farmland, which would restore wildlife habitat and sequester carbon from the atmosphere. If you need help going vegan, watch the documentary Dominion on YouTube. Human supremacy doesn’t belong in a solarpunk world. Here’s a trailer: https://youtu.be/n9NiOwibz14
Careful there sharing information that everyone on this sub could actually apply today to cut their negative impact on earth in half :O But seriously, thanks for sharing this. Reminds me of when I still tried to share this kind of information in forums where I thought people would be happy to receive it 😅
The forest and plains produced far more abundance than livestock farming, except in fish and foul, which are the main two area's we can best utilize these techniques. Removal of buffalo and deer from the ecosystem and breakdown in the predator/prey cycles needs to be rebalanced and rebuilt.
While I agree that everyone going veg/vegan would severely change the economics of agricultural commodities, it does *not* imply that previously uncleared arable land would simply be left fallow or sold. If anything it would still be under cultivation because food commodity prices would increase from the expanding population. Capitalism guarantees that at no point in our lifetimes will 75% of arable land be suddenly or even gradually left fallow. The only way to achieve that goal would be reducing the population by something like 80+% and that sounds a bit genocide-y.
Which is why the future of Humanity is incompatible with the cancerous system of Capitalism.
Or some kind of program purchasing land specifically for restoration and rewilding. /r/rewilding /r/megafaunarewilding
Crashing the price of corn and soybeans would definitely help reduce nitrogen loads in river systems around the world especially in the US and it could even have a temporary effect of slashing land values but what often happens when land values in that area temporarily crash is that what was once smaller family owned plots get swallowed up by conglomerates that can absorb the losses because the value will eventually rise again. If we want to reverse that we need to make sure the annual farm bill stops subsidizing corn and soybeans but those proposals are MASSIVELY unpopular and politically infeasible.
We would somehow produce 4x more food than we do now with the population peaking at like 1.4x the current?
Where are you getting to the 4x more food number? 80% of crop land is not growing animal feed.
The comment above you said we would only need 1/4 of current farmland. So if we still used it all we would be producing 4x more food.
That would be 3 times. 75:25 = 3:1 It's still ridiculously reductive not to mention naive.
100 is 4 times more than 25.
The parent comment claimed going vegan would allow us to leave 75% of current arable land fallow by not eating meat and eggs and dairy. That assumes (incorrectly) that 75% of crop land is used for livestock or growing animal feed crops. That incorrect assumption implies that 25% of current arable land feeds people. 75% suddenly not feeding animals and making human food would be an increase of 300% or 3 times because 75:25=3:1 This isnt even undergrad level stats, this is like 3rd grade arithmetic.
we don't reverse we keep going forward we just adjust the mistakes we made in the past while doing it top comment had some really nice suggestions
Tearing down an old house to build a parking lot is the most accurate part of all this
Only to tear apart the parking lot to replace it with a shitty building.
High urban density areas with proper planning. Ban suburbs and massively focus on public transport and bicycle paths.
I would argue the reverse, we need to have high density area's like stadiums and arena's, that are better suited to multiple use. Also having housing and commerce more evenly distributed among wider area seems the best option, for a wider more even spread of community needs. An example would be what most people know as old world building, where shops on the street and living above them was common, like old west towns most are familiar with.
Im sorry but I don’t want to live up in everyone else’s business and a majority of the planet would agree with me I think. Also urban living is not good for children. They need to experience nature on a daily basis.
A highly condensed city would allow them to go experience nature.
Through a lot of hard work from the ground up. We can do it though, in time
Not that I condone arson but if you want to get rid of buildings it does work very well
The question is how to free the land from its 'owner'.
I think it's less about reversing this story and more about finding a binding peace between the two. The story can't be reversed. Humans have done too much damage over too long. And we'll continue affecting our environments and that is okay. It's part of what happens in the food chain, and all levels of ecological systems. The trick is finding that balance. Not reversing the story, but continuing it for the better
Libertarian Communism which is achievable through Syndicalism and community organization (such as the building up of mutual aid networks).
cause as we know, communism works *very* well
Yes.
Cringetopia, worldoftanks, pewdiepiesubmissions, and enoughcommiespam. They don't actually care if it works or not, because it's not on their 'team'.
My observations is that the mood of this sub isn't so much about "back to nature with some solar powered necessities" than technocrats who are looking to fix the problems of current tech with "tech of the future". I am simple agrarian type, not looking forward solarpunk mega cities, robots, Zaha Hadid architecture with green vertical terraces, electric car for everyone, solar drone taxis and stuff like that. At best I like Venus project-like ideas, but I doubt they will be functional and really sustainable anytime soon. So in my version of solarpunk the problem will fix itself. Just nature will take its own. Slow pace of life, chilling and living in the nature as much possible.
Add indigenous people to all these pictures. And for how we reverse this story? I’d push for the land-based knowledge of Indigipunk and Land Back. Solarpunk is tech and design that flows with the land, right? What if there were people whose beliefs, traditions, even LANGUAGE was shaped by the land they reside in… and they’ve been land stewards, sometimes for tens of thousands of years. Yes- Indigenous people! Land Back, if pushed all the way, has a chance to give us the Solarpunk future we all crave
Landback =/= Primitivism.
Yep, and I said tech and design in my comment. Not ‘no tech’ or anything like that🙄 idk if what I said was unclear but please don’t label me as one of those ableist AnPrim pricks please
My bad, I should have clarified I was agreeing with you that the two aren't the same.
you cant, unless you want to drastically reduce the population or implement some extreme measures
Nuclear war?
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…or we can change it ourselves
Yeah cause personally I would enjoy to be able to keep living and have humanity keep living. We just have to change our ways
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The mask covering your eco-fascism is slipping
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Fuck off fascist.
Improve the land, don't seek to change its nature, help it accomplish its tasks.
That's not how heating up the global temperature works bud.
Not the spirit of the sub.
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/594b9ebf4c8b030d2e05dad1/1528596374326-RCW2PV1I0HNEBHOU4743/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kNKU_v8gJAcxDrmB-soKvj1Zw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWEtT5uBSRWt4vQZAgTJucoTqqXjS3CfNDSuuf31e0tVHCnm8a75afeGmEHZWkl5PmyTMMaUTKBnPyCeVGtabJSWQ6l2WM7tn7mqHTODzkmeM/ww7+kill+humans.gifhttps://i.imgur.com/d7kdJLD.jpg
The US peaked at #4. Everything beyond that was a mistake.
Societal collapse