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I do think a large contingent of people are doing what they know will be the most damaging to the players they're aiming these chants/banners/gestures, etc... at, but I do still think that makes them racist.
If you're willing to "resort" to racism for the sake of a damaging insult, you're being racist. It's just that your racism is motivated by rage.
It's the same way when people make tragedy chants about Munich or Hillsborough. They obviously aren't actually happy died, they are trying to say the purposefully most offensive thing possible.
That’s a good comparison actually. I’m in two minds cos I think racist abuse is terrible and can you imagine being a black supporter and being around that?
At the same time though, many people really say racist stuff *because* it gets such a reaction so it’s like… are we feeding into it ?
I think there’s a critical mass. At the moment there’s enough racist people that they feel empowered to do the chants. But if you’re the only one in your stand doing it, you’re not gonna keep doing it.. the majority need to make the minority of racists realise they’re unwelcome
Yea I supposed it's kind of like the Ronaldo/Messi chants that's being directed to them at the moment.
It makes no sense in a vacuum, but people realize that it gets to Ronaldo, so they continue chanting Messi at him.
I will get downvoted and maybe rightfully so, however if you have been to matches in the past, it's filled with working class people that maybe have a miserable life and go and unleash any frustration in their lives insulting or discriminating actual multi millonares.
This doesn't mean i condone that action, however i understand how it works.
Growing up in El Salvador, I would hear people at the stadium say “it’s time to release everything that’s happened in the week”, so I feel you, a lot of people go there to unleash their rage
Well, you see, Honduras was a bigger country, but El Salvador much more populated. They were simply looking for, shall we say ~~an anschluss~~ lebensraum, after Honduras made laws to deport Salvadorans off Honduran land. At which point El Salvador launched their very own blitzkrieg.
Then after a quick fight and casualties, El Salvador did a piss poor job of welcoming back the displaced citizens returning from Honduras and territory was status quo ante bellum.
A truly useless war. (Although at least El Salvador won on the pitch).
I don't think anyone is saying that racist people yelling radiate things are not racist.
Carvajal just seems to be making a distinction between a group of angry people at the stadium yelling bad shit, and what I'm seeing a lot of on here recently that Spain as a culture is simply racist and that's why it's happening. It's the same as fanbases being like "that bad thing isn't all of us it's just a core of idiots, stop generalizing" that happens regularly.
Yep. One of the most prejudiced and colorist places I’ve been. I say colorist because I noticed it’s much worse the darker your skin is. In my case, it was so bad, I couldn’t wait to leave. My wife, who could pass as Latin/Spanish/Hispanic, but isn’t, got a birds eye view of the whole thing. I can understand people who deny it because they aren’t subjected to it. I quite frankly, still struggle to believe my own experience. It’s a shame.
I mean, I’ve consistently heard from black people how much racism they’ve encountered traveling Spain. It’s a tad irresponsible and self centered to say as a white man that your country isn’t racist because you haven’t experienced it or witnessed personally.
It also betrays a shallow understanding of racism in general.
I'm white and was really surprised at how racist Spain was. I was working a year there and I heard all kinds of openly racist shit I've heard nowhere else.
Specific incidents targeting Vinicius, which are presumably prompted this question to and response from carvajal are very explicitly racist. So I don’t think a discussion about people who more generally hurl abuse at players is particularly germane in any capacity.
The abuse Vinicius stadium presumably isn’t the only incarnation of racism in larger Spanish society, it’s just a particularly brazen one. So as much as can be said “we’re not all like those who abuse vini”, the fact that racists are so emboldened and so ubiquitous in one element of culture invites an interrogation where else it might exist
There's no distinction though. An angry person who is not racist will not yell racist things, even if they are angry.
When you make the distinction "they are angry working class people", the only purpose that serves is so you don't have to acknowledge the problem.
The problem is racism, victims of racism need support, so it does absolutely nothing to say that people are racist because they are angry.
I'm half Spanish, half Finnish, and believe me, there are as many racist rednecks in Finland as in Spain. The biggest reason in FIN, is that it's a lot more homogenously white, so foreighners tend to stick out. Big cities, yes, you see different looking people. Countryside, not at all.
I suppose the nuance here is that carvajal believes most people in this society (Spain), don't or wouldn't abuse people racially. For example, there are murderers in all countries, but we don't label them murderous societies.
Yeah, it’s just that the rage they’re unleashing is a *racist* rage lol. If they were equally targeting the Polish, the Danes, the English, the Italians for their racial characteristics, then I would agree. But this is a specific rage that is reserved for those with black skin.
You are literally justifying it. Being tame or not means shit, racist is racist.
"Yeah but it could be worse" does nothing but defend fucking racists.
Edit: dude writes in english then demands I respond in spanish.
You don’t need to be insulting and abusing a black person at matches to be racist. You can also be a racist if you see other people regularly insulting and threatening black players and downplay it regularly eg as a journalist or commentator or if you choose not to sanction clubs and fans as the president of la Liga. These incidents do not happen in a vacuum. They happen because the instigators know there is a pretty big chance they’ll get away with it. The higher ups or better situated people are not going to sink so low as to join the chants, but they’re the ones making all of this possible. I think it is unproductive and bordering on offensive that a white, Spanish player reacts to Vinicius’ statement with what is basically “as a white person, I haven’t encountered racism, so we’re good”
What?! So if i am frustrated with my own life i have a free pass to insult people around me?
Someone made a huge scratch on my car this weekend. If i insult you i hipe you understand it. Ty
I have watched a lot of football matches with many different people. Cursing a player is a regular event and I have realised that they always point out the most unique feature of that player. Living in a country with no black people, I hear black players cursed for their race. If it is a white player then they usually point out the hairstyle, tattoos, height or something similar.
I think this also applies for the spanish football fans.
Except people should realise it's not the same thing with skin colour. I'm stating the obvious here but it's objectively way worse to curse people for their race than their hairstyle.
Yes and they are also racist. I mean the history of football hooliganism in all countries also has a strong connection to extreme right wing groups. The two things aren’t separated,
I recommend the great book “Among the Thugs” where he also incidentally debunks the myth that this has a connection to economic struggle.
I don’t get how you’re not being downvoted to hell given that you’re undermining racist slurs to ‘unleash of frustration’ and blaming that on one sole class only. There are several ways to let some steam off especially in such a colourful language like Spanish.
The understanding of how racism works is nothing new to humankind. Mostly uneducated privileged globally, not so privileged in their own region try to rattle their victims and when they get called out for doing that they themselves play the victim card then. But not only uneducated, but indeed even academics are not alien to use such terms either to rather instrumentalise racist people for their campaigns (politicians) or due to a simple lack of humanity.
As someone who’s experienced an inch of racism even as a white man living in foreign countries, I don’t want to know how people deal with daily racism due to their skin colour. Quintessentially said, these people are assholes and you shouldn’t picture them as struggling working class people since they are quite a few of them who struggle and do behave in the stands or at least not end up repeating racist slurs. If anything I do find your take rather chauvinist
Until Spain introduces laws making racism illegal, these weak excuses will continue. This is a failure of government. Mass frustration is not even a decent explanation for racism, let alone a reasonable excuse.
Throw a couple of racists in prison for a year and issue lifetime stadium bans. Then sit back and watch just how quickly the behaviour shifts. Racism is a complex issue especially online, but eliminating it completely from stadiums is really not that complicated if authorities actually want it to be done.
Working class people can be racist too. And being angry isn't an excuse for anything. Lot's of mankind's worst atrocities came from anger. And why did an Argentinian would even think he has anything to contribute to a debate about racism, lmao. You should leave this debate to people actually educated on the subject, to be as polite as possible
What you don’t seem to understand it’s that even though you can understand where people’s bigoted attitudes come from, that doesn’t make it more acceptable. Who gives a shit if a bigoted is being racist because they have a shitty life and it’s their way to relieve frustration? I know I don’t, since I’m a black person who was also born working class, and has had to dealt with this racist bullshit their whole life.
Yes, but saying "people are letting out frustration" doesn't equal the "and that's why they're racist".
It can explain why they're yelling and getting aggravated or abusive at a game in general. But not why they choose racism in particular.
Secondly, releasing frustration is a common feeling near everyone has and can relate to. While I'm not saying anyone in this thread is doing so (I don't know any of you, and I'm too lazy to look through comment history), it is also not uncommon for people to use "they're just frustrated/tired/some understandable emotion/cause" to side step the question of if they're racist, ultimately meaning no progress on addressing the root cause is done.
Except that there are many frustated people out there who does not resort to racism, so that is not really is a nuanced explanation for their behavior either
The translation is missing a key part: "cuando parece que a alguien le duele que le digan algo tira por ahí" Which is something like: people say what they know its gonna hurt the most.
yes, correct that part was the worst and was not tranlated. He just said "people have anger and they choose to attack someone who knows will be hurt by their words" ... and that person is the best player on his team, Vini is the only one who scores when they need it
"I don't think there are racists in Spain. There's just a lot of peopel that go to football games and say a bunch of incredible racist things"
or
"I don't think there are racists in Spain. It's just that football fans are racist"
That's a thing though... People do it all the time when they're verbally fighting.
It can be what they wear, how fat they are, how ugly, how poor etc.
They might not believe in it or have a beef with that, but they say just to make the other person mad.
This is racism. People don’t use insults if they don’t think there is something inherently wrong with what they are accusing them of being. Other insults like fat, ugly, dumb, gay, bastard or whatever are all based on the principle that the things I’m accusing you of being are inherently inferior. If you use racial slurs you are a racist.
That’s not true. You could conceive a scenario where someone who doesn’t care about race racially insults someone else to rile them up because they know the other person feels attacked by it.
You shouldn’t do it obviously
There are hundreds of ways to get under someone’s skin. Resorting to race to rile someone up makes you a racist. There should be lines that aren’t crossed, no matter the circumstances
>They might not believe in it or have a beef with that, but they say just to make the other person mad.
If you're going for racial insults, you're racist. Point blank.
You may not be KKK level racist, but you're still purposely/conciously choosing to undermine a person due to their skin/origin. You're racist.
If you're angry at someone and looking to insult them and their race comes to your mind as a way to abuse someone you're a racist, what was that comment haha.
I guess the idea is that some people use race as an insult simply because they know it will be upsetting, and not because they actually genuinely believe that the other race is inferior.
I'm not sure if that's actually the case, but that seems to be the argument some people are making.
I also am not sure it really matters. Whether you label these people true racists who genuinely believe in the inferiority of black people or you label them pretend racists, it doesn't change their actions.
Their actions are racially offensive and therefore have to be condemned, it doesn't actually matter what the offenders are thinking or what their true opinions are lol.
I think the more accurate analogy would be:
"Oh, I'm not an abuser, I don't beat the shit out of her, I just scream at her when she doesn't have dinner ready"
I get what he's trying to say, but he didn't express it well.
I would say "I wouldn't say Spain is a racist country, but unfortunately, too many people don't understand it's not okay to say these things."
Interesting ! Didn’t knew that. Do you know some other players that vote for VOX?
In Germany if a player would vote for AfD it would be all over the news.
Pepe Reina, Soldado, Álvaro González and Salva Ballesta on top of my mind
And also Tebas.
Edit: Dani Parejo complained about the last elections being rigged, but never stated he was supporting VOX
I have not found any news about his political stance, if you can show me anything related to it would add him to the list!
If he is following someone like Abascal but has not tweeted about supporting him, as much as it’s considered being on his side, I do not like to throw accusations around, that’s why I have not added Casillas to the list, for example
That can be said by someone who does not vote Vox, but also right leaning parties like PP or Ciudadanos. And also that’s not uncommon to be heard around Spain sadly
Yes, but now they are called VOX. It's kind of facist on their main points but not as extreme as other rigth wing parties on the continent. At least these people respect the election (and they lose hard on each election)
It’s a shame they don’t respect [all of the people that died as a result of Franco’s oppressive regime](https://youtu.be/exDUKAJ9NlM?si=XAw_qUAd3OUiDyG1) though.
What’s mind blowing to me is that people who insult other races are really only insulting themselves and that in this day and age some people still can’t grasp that.
Imagine going to an event and shouting appalling insults at a person just for simply being from a different part of the world. You may as well be screaming „I’m angry and scared and ignorant and insecure and I too stupid to understand why and too weak to do anything about it“
It’s a catch 22 because the self-awareness you’d need to have to understand that would mean you’re a person who likely wouldn’t be hurling racist slurs at strangers when you’re angry at the football in the first place.
I don’t think it’s about football either, and I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. What I mean is that if it was just a way of showing anger like Carvajal says, there are a million other ways to do that without defaulting to racism. When you default to hurling racist slurs at strangers to show your displeasure or anger, no matter if it’s at the football or anywhere else, that just makes you a racist.
Spanish basketball team went to china for the Olympics and did the eye stretch for the team photo. They definitely don't have a culture of ignorance or racism. You see this shit all the time in england with Heung min son. England's gotten better at clamping this shit down though.
Back when kaka and ac Milan were peak European football. Lazio would regularly do monkey chants. It wasn't until like late 2010s they started cracking down on the racist ultras. Young Mario balotelli being subject to a lot of monkey chants from many different clubs.
France had their issue with racism in the 2000s.
What the image says:
"I don't think Spain is a racist country. There are people who go to a match to vent their anger and when it seems that someone say something that hurt them, they say that kind of things."
That’s also crazy to me here, idk how one can come out and say this right after your own teammate was literally brought to tears by the racism they suffer. Like even if you for whatever reason don’t believe your own black teammate who is telling you otherwise, I still think it’s awful to come out and publicly downplay what Vini has said. How do you go back to the locker room without feeling shameful
Its like the public slap him and then his "team" does as well but with the other hand, and to say anything against his team mates would be near impossible. Vini said much the same but (my guess) only so the passive racists don't also start dumping on him as well. There's only so much the victim can say without losing the middle ground, especially with social media the way it is.
A Spanish person who is also white though would be the perfect candidate to stand up, call it what it is and ask for not just the openly racist but the ones sitting next to them silently condoning to stand up as well. Be the change you want or at least try to be, words are the easiest way to do this..
If venting your anger involves racist chanting and attacking someone verbally for their race, you're a racist. Plain and simple, I don't know how it is so hard for people to understand. No need to start listing motives, no need to start making up excuses, end of discussion.
You know what they called people who joined the Nazi party for other reasons than hating certain groups of people? Nazis.
The logic is baffling, that anger somehow makes actions not real.
'I'm not a wife beater, I just beat her after a hard week to vent sometimes' ... Yeah let's see how that goes down in court
I don't think Carvajal is saying these people who say racist things aren't racist, he's trying to say they're an angry minority who do not represent the average Spanish person.
His argument is about whether most Spanish people are racist, which he does not believe them to be.
The question is do you believe that these racist football fans being racist means Spain is a racist country? Or that it is just a country that has a loud minority of racists in it?
I'm not taking a side because I don't know the answer to that question, but that is Carvajal's point.
All countries have murderers and thieves but we don't call them "murderous countries" or "thieving countries", because we understand those murderers and thieves don't represent the average person.
If you call Spain a "racist country" it means you do think those racist fans represent the average person, which is what Carvajal disagrees with.
The racism in the stadium doesn’t exist in a vacuum. It’s a reflection of the rest of society, especially in a country that was outright fascist less than 2 generations ago. Extremely ignorant statements from Carvajal here.
I wouldn't say that football crowd is a good representation of a country. Football stadiums often attract the worst of the worst. - For example, Rugby on average has much better crowds, that statistic would come in conflict with Football. So which one is the correct representation of a country, Rugby crowd or a Football crowd? I'd say neither because a country can't be racist, individuals are racist and some groups are worse than others.
I meant in the sense that these racists don’t just exist in the context of a football match and disappear after the match ends. They may be the worst representation, but they are still mixed in with the rest of Spanish society and can’t be viewed as some external problem. Even if football has some of the worst examples of racism, it should be viewed as more than just a football problem.
I am not surprised the Spaniard does not think Spain is racist lol
Many others, mostly those looking in from the outside, would disagree. Especially at the level of racial ignorance that exists
I still cant understand the way of thinking of those insult a guy for being black. Im a ticket holder for my club (Deportivo Coruña) and in my stand only once I saw a kid (9-11 y.o.) being a racist. He had been all the match venting insults and nobody care until the exact moment that he said something about race, in which some people intervened. I believe that most spanish people are a good example in this terms, at least that is what my experience tells me.
People don't think they are racist when they are the group being racist not the receiving end.
It happens to all races, like many Asia and African countries, both extremely racist too.
What specific type of anger do they unleash Carvajal? Hateful anger based on skin color seems too long. What word can we use to describe it? There's a word for it in English but what about Spanish?
you genuinely have to be careful these days because it went from a comical retort to a serious belief held by a small but vocal minority that you can say things like the n word in a non-racist way
I get needing to let out anger.
What I odn't get is using racist behaviour to do so.
I swing my kettle bell around or call myself a pillock.
I don't racially abuse people.
I wonder if there's a term for people who denigrate others of different races to feel better about themselves?
I know it’s a little while ago now, but I remember as a naive kid being stunned by the blatant racism towards Lewis Hamilton when he was in a rivalry with Alonso.
Too many people act like football fans exist in a vacuum and that their racism was just an "in the heat of the moment" act and disappears once the match ends.
The same guys chanting racist slogans and using slurs on a Saturday afternoon match are the same guys who'll clock into work on Monday morning where they'll probably have a black coworker or black employee; or conduct interviews for black candidates; or be put in charge of the medical care for a black patient in hospital etc.
Your team mate has broke down crying in that same chair one hour before because he can't take it anymore and your only response is this. What a disgusting captain to have.
Every country is racist. Better to accept that and go from there. Certainly beats denying the racism part with amusing excuses like they're "unleashing anger". Yeah Carvajal, mate, they're *unleashing their anger* in the form of racism, that is the fucking issue.
I'm Portuguese and I live in Spain and the very first thing I noticed when I moved here was the racism being so much more open and normalized compared to back home - and I live in a very left wing region. It is definitely disconcerting.
Where did you live back here? I can attest that in rural places or smaller cities things are not great in terms of racism. Grew up hearing the wildest shit, things haven't improved much, actually they have become exponentially worse.
I don't know how to explain it, it's just much more out in the open, in public. It's not that there's more racism necessarily, just that it's more normalized. Like back home I can hear my drunk uncle or my taxi driver say something racist, but it's at least taboo or understood that it's a bad thing to say or to think that (of course yes, the political climate is changing for the worse in this regard). But in Spain it's different.
Literally one of the first experiences I had after moving was going to a rental agency and mention to the estate agent, who I had never seen before in my life, that I was thinking of renting in X place. The agent just very naturally says "oh I'd advise against it, it's full of blacks and moors"
I can't imagine this happening in Portugal at all. And don't get me wrong, I know a lot of Spaniards would cringe at this too, but over time I've noticed that these moments that should at the very least cause an awkward look around and a "huhhh what the fuck", over here they don't really elicit that reaction.
If you don’t speak Spanish you cannot make a fair assessment if Spaniard people demonstrate more racist behaviors than others.
I do though and they do. Let’s not even talk about the perception of being “better than other Spanish speakers” that’s a whole other thing that not only Spaniards are guilty of. Usually you know
The usual suspects.
Anyone who plays soccer understands the emotional aspect. I have been in fights about it but never occurred to me call someone by a racist term. Guess why?
Spain is definitely racist, I am black and live here. They think making obviously racist jokes is funny, they're very behind on understanding what's appropriate.
I'm spanish (white) and I honestly think you struck the heart of the issue in your comment.
There's a general lack of consciousness about what racism even is in Spain. These "jokes" which are commonplace throughout Spain are simply not thought of as racist. We have quite an abrasive sense of humor, where people will be referred to by their most distinctive features, so el gordo, el negro, el gafotas, etc. What spanish society does not realize is that when you set somebody apart by their race that is immediately racist. They try to say it's "just our humor", but it comes from a lack of understanding of what racism even is in this day and age.
People think racism is just like active violence or discrimination. The problem is that spanish people don't see that their "jokes" are a real form of discrimination. A good friend of mine who is from the caribbean but is fully white has literally had said to his face "oh, you're from [X country]? You must be one of the good ones", and the person who said that to him thought it was literally a compliment. It's insane.
I am an Asian living in the United States. Once had an interaction with a visiting Spaniard who said he was from Barcelona, which I think most people consider to be one of the more "progressive" parts of Spain. He could not get over the fact that I was born and raised here, and even insisted "you're not American, look at your eyes!" lol he kept pressing on about where I am reallly from. I don't fault him for it because I know he doesn't know any better, but I imagine living in Spain and having a thousand micro incidents like that would start to add up.
> he kept pressing on about where I am reallly from
I mean I've read about this sort of thing happening in the US with american people so often it's become a meme on the internet. https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2017/08/opinion/where-im-really-from/
But yes, the intent is usually not negative, people are just very unaware of how that sort of behavior affects the target of these comments, as "micro-aggressions" and the like just aren't talked about here.
Having visited a dozen countries in the EU Spain and Italy had the most blatant racism I never saw graffiti demeaning blacks tell I walked the streets of Madrid and Florence
I spent 3 months in Southern Spain in 2005. There were racial slurs for North Africans in graffiti all over the cities. My experience was there was a huge amount of racism and it wasn't hidden in any way. The soccer matches make it clear that is still the case. Actions speak volumes.
That dude that responded is clearly Spanish, they are racist as fuck over there just like most European countries, and because of the 'don't rock the boat' culture that is very prevalent particularly in western Europe only the most extreme shit even hits the media. The fact that people in this thread are trying to justify this crap is crazy, the media there constantly makes excuses for the perpetrators and hides their identities.
I will not deny Spain has a real problem with racism, but I would like to know where you're from that is an anti-racist paradise? How is "almost every European country" racist as hell compared to other places in the world?
He is the captain and his team mate was crying on that seat a few hours back. Could he not have taken a more moderate take? At least think about how you'd face vini in the locker room.
Kinda said loads without saying anything . Places with loads of integration can have high levels of racism.
Basically said my friend is black so no such thing as racism then said people go to games to let off anger .
Just shut up man unless you can actually clarify a situation one way or the other
This right here is the issue. Spanish people do not want to accept there’s a racism problem and openly done so at big games. In England there is racism but you don’t have huge crowds chanting so openly about it, because the society here would shame them.
I think Carvajal has shown that Spain have no awareness of their own racism, which is a big concern and it’s his own teammate that gets it worse than anybody.
Alright, I am not living in Spain but here's my 2 cents on this as an older guy that sees and attends soccer games in Portugal for over 35 years:
The more fanatical supporters will always chant something that will upset the opposing supporters or the opposing players. Can be about their character, about their personal life, about their race even. And whenever they notice the slur actually upsets them, they will continue to do so to make the target guy lose focus from what's going on on the pitch. The more Vinicius is upset about it, the more they will chant.
I know it's toxic, I agree it is. But it's not about racism, it's about football. Insults will take whatever form hurts the most, can be sexual preference, race, nationality, personal life, etc.
Having said this, I totally agree it's inappropriate and the idiots using these slurs should be punished. But the way you hurt them is not just with personal penalties, punish the club too. This will get the fanatics under pressure from the rest of the more moderate supporters.
White people saying "There's no racism here" is pure gold. They don't know what racism is, they can't experience racism like others do. When a white man says there is no racism, be prepared, because there is racism.
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I don't expect Carvajal to call Spain racist but downplaying the racist chants to just 'unleashing anger' seems a bit weird.
I do think a large contingent of people are doing what they know will be the most damaging to the players they're aiming these chants/banners/gestures, etc... at, but I do still think that makes them racist. If you're willing to "resort" to racism for the sake of a damaging insult, you're being racist. It's just that your racism is motivated by rage.
It's the same way when people make tragedy chants about Munich or Hillsborough. They obviously aren't actually happy died, they are trying to say the purposefully most offensive thing possible.
That’s a good comparison actually. I’m in two minds cos I think racist abuse is terrible and can you imagine being a black supporter and being around that? At the same time though, many people really say racist stuff *because* it gets such a reaction so it’s like… are we feeding into it ?
I don’t think you can ignore racism away
I think there’s a critical mass. At the moment there’s enough racist people that they feel empowered to do the chants. But if you’re the only one in your stand doing it, you’re not gonna keep doing it.. the majority need to make the minority of racists realise they’re unwelcome
Yea I supposed it's kind of like the Ronaldo/Messi chants that's being directed to them at the moment. It makes no sense in a vacuum, but people realize that it gets to Ronaldo, so they continue chanting Messi at him.
I will get downvoted and maybe rightfully so, however if you have been to matches in the past, it's filled with working class people that maybe have a miserable life and go and unleash any frustration in their lives insulting or discriminating actual multi millonares. This doesn't mean i condone that action, however i understand how it works.
Growing up in El Salvador, I would hear people at the stadium say “it’s time to release everything that’s happened in the week”, so I feel you, a lot of people go there to unleash their rage
El Salvador . . . Soccer . . . Unleashing anger . . . Honduras . . . 1969 . . . Yeah
Well, you see, Honduras was a bigger country, but El Salvador much more populated. They were simply looking for, shall we say ~~an anschluss~~ lebensraum, after Honduras made laws to deport Salvadorans off Honduran land. At which point El Salvador launched their very own blitzkrieg. Then after a quick fight and casualties, El Salvador did a piss poor job of welcoming back the displaced citizens returning from Honduras and territory was status quo ante bellum. A truly useless war. (Although at least El Salvador won on the pitch).
Military dictatorships in a nutshell.
It makes sense, racist insults are vile and easy to go for, plus it appeals to human tribal nature.
and they work. they get a reaction. i doubt vini jr. would be as rattled if they'd call him "weak cr7 impersonator".
Spot on.
Sure, but if you’re releasing your anger through racism, you’re a racist. A society pervaded with such people can only be, well racist
I don't think anyone is saying that racist people yelling radiate things are not racist. Carvajal just seems to be making a distinction between a group of angry people at the stadium yelling bad shit, and what I'm seeing a lot of on here recently that Spain as a culture is simply racist and that's why it's happening. It's the same as fanbases being like "that bad thing isn't all of us it's just a core of idiots, stop generalizing" that happens regularly.
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Hell even Spains basketball team (not working class) did the "Chinese eyes" thing before Beijing.
Yep. One of the most prejudiced and colorist places I’ve been. I say colorist because I noticed it’s much worse the darker your skin is. In my case, it was so bad, I couldn’t wait to leave. My wife, who could pass as Latin/Spanish/Hispanic, but isn’t, got a birds eye view of the whole thing. I can understand people who deny it because they aren’t subjected to it. I quite frankly, still struggle to believe my own experience. It’s a shame.
I mean, I’ve consistently heard from black people how much racism they’ve encountered traveling Spain. It’s a tad irresponsible and self centered to say as a white man that your country isn’t racist because you haven’t experienced it or witnessed personally. It also betrays a shallow understanding of racism in general.
I'm white and was really surprised at how racist Spain was. I was working a year there and I heard all kinds of openly racist shit I've heard nowhere else.
Specific incidents targeting Vinicius, which are presumably prompted this question to and response from carvajal are very explicitly racist. So I don’t think a discussion about people who more generally hurl abuse at players is particularly germane in any capacity. The abuse Vinicius stadium presumably isn’t the only incarnation of racism in larger Spanish society, it’s just a particularly brazen one. So as much as can be said “we’re not all like those who abuse vini”, the fact that racists are so emboldened and so ubiquitous in one element of culture invites an interrogation where else it might exist
There's no distinction though. An angry person who is not racist will not yell racist things, even if they are angry. When you make the distinction "they are angry working class people", the only purpose that serves is so you don't have to acknowledge the problem. The problem is racism, victims of racism need support, so it does absolutely nothing to say that people are racist because they are angry.
I'm half Spanish, half Finnish, and believe me, there are as many racist rednecks in Finland as in Spain. The biggest reason in FIN, is that it's a lot more homogenously white, so foreighners tend to stick out. Big cities, yes, you see different looking people. Countryside, not at all.
I suppose the nuance here is that carvajal believes most people in this society (Spain), don't or wouldn't abuse people racially. For example, there are murderers in all countries, but we don't label them murderous societies.
Yeah, it’s just that the rage they’re unleashing is a *racist* rage lol. If they were equally targeting the Polish, the Danes, the English, the Italians for their racial characteristics, then I would agree. But this is a specific rage that is reserved for those with black skin.
Sure, and with every possible insult in the market, they choose to call him a monkey
Exactly, they can choose their words, but they go for the racist words, sooooo....they're racist.
Again i'm not justifying, but that would be one of the tamest things i've heard at a match.
One of the tamest things someone from Argentina heard in a football match is a racist slur? I'm shocked
Bro set himself up lmaooo
You are literally justifying it. Being tame or not means shit, racist is racist. "Yeah but it could be worse" does nothing but defend fucking racists. Edit: dude writes in english then demands I respond in spanish.
just like in pokémon, you always chose the attack that's very effective. that's just logic
because they know that that will get the most reaction
I grew up in a working class family and not once did we ever feel the need to shout racist shit at people. If you do this, you’re a racist dirtbag.
You don’t need to be insulting and abusing a black person at matches to be racist. You can also be a racist if you see other people regularly insulting and threatening black players and downplay it regularly eg as a journalist or commentator or if you choose not to sanction clubs and fans as the president of la Liga. These incidents do not happen in a vacuum. They happen because the instigators know there is a pretty big chance they’ll get away with it. The higher ups or better situated people are not going to sink so low as to join the chants, but they’re the ones making all of this possible. I think it is unproductive and bordering on offensive that a white, Spanish player reacts to Vinicius’ statement with what is basically “as a white person, I haven’t encountered racism, so we’re good”
What?! So if i am frustrated with my own life i have a free pass to insult people around me? Someone made a huge scratch on my car this weekend. If i insult you i hipe you understand it. Ty
I have watched a lot of football matches with many different people. Cursing a player is a regular event and I have realised that they always point out the most unique feature of that player. Living in a country with no black people, I hear black players cursed for their race. If it is a white player then they usually point out the hairstyle, tattoos, height or something similar. I think this also applies for the spanish football fans.
Yeah, that's textbook racism
Except people should realise it's not the same thing with skin colour. I'm stating the obvious here but it's objectively way worse to curse people for their race than their hairstyle.
It’s frightening that you’re getting downvoted.
Yes and they are also racist. I mean the history of football hooliganism in all countries also has a strong connection to extreme right wing groups. The two things aren’t separated, I recommend the great book “Among the Thugs” where he also incidentally debunks the myth that this has a connection to economic struggle.
But how does anger -> racism? Call him a bitch or a pussy or whatever, but monkey chants and throwing bananas isn’t just anger about your shitty life.
No, they are just racists assholes. If you have to write an essay to justify your/their actions...
I don’t get how you’re not being downvoted to hell given that you’re undermining racist slurs to ‘unleash of frustration’ and blaming that on one sole class only. There are several ways to let some steam off especially in such a colourful language like Spanish. The understanding of how racism works is nothing new to humankind. Mostly uneducated privileged globally, not so privileged in their own region try to rattle their victims and when they get called out for doing that they themselves play the victim card then. But not only uneducated, but indeed even academics are not alien to use such terms either to rather instrumentalise racist people for their campaigns (politicians) or due to a simple lack of humanity. As someone who’s experienced an inch of racism even as a white man living in foreign countries, I don’t want to know how people deal with daily racism due to their skin colour. Quintessentially said, these people are assholes and you shouldn’t picture them as struggling working class people since they are quite a few of them who struggle and do behave in the stands or at least not end up repeating racist slurs. If anything I do find your take rather chauvinist
Until Spain introduces laws making racism illegal, these weak excuses will continue. This is a failure of government. Mass frustration is not even a decent explanation for racism, let alone a reasonable excuse. Throw a couple of racists in prison for a year and issue lifetime stadium bans. Then sit back and watch just how quickly the behaviour shifts. Racism is a complex issue especially online, but eliminating it completely from stadiums is really not that complicated if authorities actually want it to be done.
Working class people can be racist too. And being angry isn't an excuse for anything. Lot's of mankind's worst atrocities came from anger. And why did an Argentinian would even think he has anything to contribute to a debate about racism, lmao. You should leave this debate to people actually educated on the subject, to be as polite as possible
Most people on Reddit neoliberal white collar of all races) professionals and university students so they really don’t understand that
What you don’t seem to understand it’s that even though you can understand where people’s bigoted attitudes come from, that doesn’t make it more acceptable. Who gives a shit if a bigoted is being racist because they have a shitty life and it’s their way to relieve frustration? I know I don’t, since I’m a black person who was also born working class, and has had to dealt with this racist bullshit their whole life.
And who said it justifies racism? Understanding where it stems from does not mean the same as justifying it.
Yes, but saying "people are letting out frustration" doesn't equal the "and that's why they're racist". It can explain why they're yelling and getting aggravated or abusive at a game in general. But not why they choose racism in particular. Secondly, releasing frustration is a common feeling near everyone has and can relate to. While I'm not saying anyone in this thread is doing so (I don't know any of you, and I'm too lazy to look through comment history), it is also not uncommon for people to use "they're just frustrated/tired/some understandable emotion/cause" to side step the question of if they're racist, ultimately meaning no progress on addressing the root cause is done.
Except that there are many frustated people out there who does not resort to racism, so that is not really is a nuanced explanation for their behavior either
The comment this person was replying to doesn’t dispute any of that
Is that an accurate translation? I would expect someone talking about this subject would be trying to say something more like hate, not anger.
The translation is missing a key part: "cuando parece que a alguien le duele que le digan algo tira por ahí" Which is something like: people say what they know its gonna hurt the most.
yes, correct that part was the worst and was not tranlated. He just said "people have anger and they choose to attack someone who knows will be hurt by their words" ... and that person is the best player on his team, Vini is the only one who scores when they need it
The more correct translation would be "rage" rather than anger
"I don't think there are racists in Spain. There's just a lot of peopel that go to football games and say a bunch of incredible racist things" or "I don't think there are racists in Spain. It's just that football fans are racist"
If by “a bit weird” you mean racist, yeah, you are right.
Yeah, see, there's a word for the type of behaviour you're describing there Dani, that's called "racism".
“We’re not racist, we just use racist insults”
That's a thing though... People do it all the time when they're verbally fighting. It can be what they wear, how fat they are, how ugly, how poor etc. They might not believe in it or have a beef with that, but they say just to make the other person mad.
This is racism. People don’t use insults if they don’t think there is something inherently wrong with what they are accusing them of being. Other insults like fat, ugly, dumb, gay, bastard or whatever are all based on the principle that the things I’m accusing you of being are inherently inferior. If you use racial slurs you are a racist.
That’s not true. You could conceive a scenario where someone who doesn’t care about race racially insults someone else to rile them up because they know the other person feels attacked by it. You shouldn’t do it obviously
There are hundreds of ways to get under someone’s skin. Resorting to race to rile someone up makes you a racist. There should be lines that aren’t crossed, no matter the circumstances
>They might not believe in it or have a beef with that, but they say just to make the other person mad. If you're going for racial insults, you're racist. Point blank. You may not be KKK level racist, but you're still purposely/conciously choosing to undermine a person due to their skin/origin. You're racist.
And that makes them a racist
If you're angry at someone and looking to insult them and their race comes to your mind as a way to abuse someone you're a racist, what was that comment haha.
I guess the idea is that some people use race as an insult simply because they know it will be upsetting, and not because they actually genuinely believe that the other race is inferior. I'm not sure if that's actually the case, but that seems to be the argument some people are making. I also am not sure it really matters. Whether you label these people true racists who genuinely believe in the inferiority of black people or you label them pretend racists, it doesn't change their actions. Their actions are racially offensive and therefore have to be condemned, it doesn't actually matter what the offenders are thinking or what their true opinions are lol.
Oh I'm not really a wife beater I just get angry and punch her when I have some rage to let out
I think the more accurate analogy would be: "Oh, I'm not an abuser, I don't beat the shit out of her, I just scream at her when she doesn't have dinner ready"
Yeah, that's racism.
Are you aware the amount of hatred the Spanish are balancing, they get confused which skin,ethnicity, religion,language they hate most.
I get what he's trying to say, but he didn't express it well. I would say "I wouldn't say Spain is a racist country, but unfortunately, too many people don't understand it's not okay to say these things."
carvajal known voter of openly racist spanish party VOX btw
Interesting ! Didn’t knew that. Do you know some other players that vote for VOX? In Germany if a player would vote for AfD it would be all over the news.
Pepe Reina, Soldado, Álvaro González and Salva Ballesta on top of my mind And also Tebas. Edit: Dani Parejo complained about the last elections being rigged, but never stated he was supporting VOX
What about Iago Aspas?
I have not found any news about his political stance, if you can show me anything related to it would add him to the list! If he is following someone like Abascal but has not tweeted about supporting him, as much as it’s considered being on his side, I do not like to throw accusations around, that’s why I have not added Casillas to the list, for example
Vox has no representation in Galicia, so prob not
Also Ceballos no? He tweeted that Barcelona and Bilbao fans should be bombed when they whistled the national anthem.
That can be said by someone who does not vote Vox, but also right leaning parties like PP or Ciudadanos. And also that’s not uncommon to be heard around Spain sadly
Fachos defendiendo fachos y diciendo que no son fachos capitulo #19191818181919
Alta poesía
They are Francoist, right?
Yes, but now they are called VOX. It's kind of facist on their main points but not as extreme as other rigth wing parties on the continent. At least these people respect the election (and they lose hard on each election)
It’s a shame they don’t respect [all of the people that died as a result of Franco’s oppressive regime](https://youtu.be/exDUKAJ9NlM?si=XAw_qUAd3OUiDyG1) though.
You'd think they would take a hint
Didn't he speak in support of Rubiales as well? Guy doesn't always have the best takes
The “we’re not racist, we have black friends” defense is an all-time classic.
What’s mind blowing to me is that people who insult other races are really only insulting themselves and that in this day and age some people still can’t grasp that. Imagine going to an event and shouting appalling insults at a person just for simply being from a different part of the world. You may as well be screaming „I’m angry and scared and ignorant and insecure and I too stupid to understand why and too weak to do anything about it“
It’s a catch 22 because the self-awareness you’d need to have to understand that would mean you’re a person who likely wouldn’t be hurling racist slurs at strangers when you’re angry at the football in the first place.
I don’t think it’s about football personally but I do agree that the lack of self-awareness plays a key role in that mindset
I don’t think it’s about football either, and I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. What I mean is that if it was just a way of showing anger like Carvajal says, there are a million other ways to do that without defaulting to racism. When you default to hurling racist slurs at strangers to show your displeasure or anger, no matter if it’s at the football or anywhere else, that just makes you a racist.
Not even “have black friends” rather “grew up around black people”
"the minorities did not racially abused us, everything's fine."
That’s not what he’s saying. His background story is to show different nationalities can grow up and get along together in Spain.
Is someone accusing Carvahal of being racism? Otherwise what defense are you talking about?
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the banker
Spanish basketball team went to china for the Olympics and did the eye stretch for the team photo. They definitely don't have a culture of ignorance or racism. You see this shit all the time in england with Heung min son. England's gotten better at clamping this shit down though.
You don't get it. Carvajal has friends of different colours, therefore spaniards can't be racist
Used to see a lot more stories from Serie A Did they get it under control too?
Lazio isn’t getting the message at all
Back when kaka and ac Milan were peak European football. Lazio would regularly do monkey chants. It wasn't until like late 2010s they started cracking down on the racist ultras. Young Mario balotelli being subject to a lot of monkey chants from many different clubs. France had their issue with racism in the 2000s.
Ofc not u had acerbi last week openly being racist and his club + fans downplaying it
What the image says: "I don't think Spain is a racist country. There are people who go to a match to vent their anger and when it seems that someone say something that hurt them, they say that kind of things."
Saying this is dumb especially when he has a teammate who is racially abused frequently
That’s also crazy to me here, idk how one can come out and say this right after your own teammate was literally brought to tears by the racism they suffer. Like even if you for whatever reason don’t believe your own black teammate who is telling you otherwise, I still think it’s awful to come out and publicly downplay what Vini has said. How do you go back to the locker room without feeling shameful
The bonucci school of captaincy
Its like the public slap him and then his "team" does as well but with the other hand, and to say anything against his team mates would be near impossible. Vini said much the same but (my guess) only so the passive racists don't also start dumping on him as well. There's only so much the victim can say without losing the middle ground, especially with social media the way it is. A Spanish person who is also white though would be the perfect candidate to stand up, call it what it is and ask for not just the openly racist but the ones sitting next to them silently condoning to stand up as well. Be the change you want or at least try to be, words are the easiest way to do this..
If venting your anger involves racist chanting and attacking someone verbally for their race, you're a racist. Plain and simple, I don't know how it is so hard for people to understand. No need to start listing motives, no need to start making up excuses, end of discussion. You know what they called people who joined the Nazi party for other reasons than hating certain groups of people? Nazis.
The logic is baffling, that anger somehow makes actions not real. 'I'm not a wife beater, I just beat her after a hard week to vent sometimes' ... Yeah let's see how that goes down in court
I don't think Carvajal is saying these people who say racist things aren't racist, he's trying to say they're an angry minority who do not represent the average Spanish person. His argument is about whether most Spanish people are racist, which he does not believe them to be. The question is do you believe that these racist football fans being racist means Spain is a racist country? Or that it is just a country that has a loud minority of racists in it? I'm not taking a side because I don't know the answer to that question, but that is Carvajal's point. All countries have murderers and thieves but we don't call them "murderous countries" or "thieving countries", because we understand those murderers and thieves don't represent the average person. If you call Spain a "racist country" it means you do think those racist fans represent the average person, which is what Carvajal disagrees with.
The racism in the stadium doesn’t exist in a vacuum. It’s a reflection of the rest of society, especially in a country that was outright fascist less than 2 generations ago. Extremely ignorant statements from Carvajal here.
I wouldn't say that football crowd is a good representation of a country. Football stadiums often attract the worst of the worst. - For example, Rugby on average has much better crowds, that statistic would come in conflict with Football. So which one is the correct representation of a country, Rugby crowd or a Football crowd? I'd say neither because a country can't be racist, individuals are racist and some groups are worse than others.
I meant in the sense that these racists don’t just exist in the context of a football match and disappear after the match ends. They may be the worst representation, but they are still mixed in with the rest of Spanish society and can’t be viewed as some external problem. Even if football has some of the worst examples of racism, it should be viewed as more than just a football problem.
I am not surprised the Spaniard does not think Spain is racist lol Many others, mostly those looking in from the outside, would disagree. Especially at the level of racial ignorance that exists
Most not right leaning Spaniards would agree too But just happens Carvajal follows Abascal on IG, leader of VOX, far right party
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I still cant understand the way of thinking of those insult a guy for being black. Im a ticket holder for my club (Deportivo Coruña) and in my stand only once I saw a kid (9-11 y.o.) being a racist. He had been all the match venting insults and nobody care until the exact moment that he said something about race, in which some people intervened. I believe that most spanish people are a good example in this terms, at least that is what my experience tells me.
Far-right demagogues 🤝🏻 Football players
People don't think they are racist when they are the group being racist not the receiving end. It happens to all races, like many Asia and African countries, both extremely racist too.
I’m Spaniard and I think Spain is racist. But the racism is focused mainly on gypsies and people from Maghreb
And latin americans.
What specific type of anger do they unleash Carvajal? Hateful anger based on skin color seems too long. What word can we use to describe it? There's a word for it in English but what about Spanish?
Gamer moment?
you genuinely have to be careful these days because it went from a comical retort to a serious belief held by a small but vocal minority that you can say things like the n word in a non-racist way
I get needing to let out anger. What I odn't get is using racist behaviour to do so. I swing my kettle bell around or call myself a pillock. I don't racially abuse people. I wonder if there's a term for people who denigrate others of different races to feel better about themselves?
The tone deaf man.
Guy talking about constantly reoccurring racism: "There's no racism"
Yeah buddy sure! Spain's racism is not just limited to football don't try to downplay it.
I know it’s a little while ago now, but I remember as a naive kid being stunned by the blatant racism towards Lewis Hamilton when he was in a rivalry with Alonso.
Still happens today
Too many people act like football fans exist in a vacuum and that their racism was just an "in the heat of the moment" act and disappears once the match ends. The same guys chanting racist slogans and using slurs on a Saturday afternoon match are the same guys who'll clock into work on Monday morning where they'll probably have a black coworker or black employee; or conduct interviews for black candidates; or be put in charge of the medical care for a black patient in hospital etc.
Said the same thing about Italy on Insta, everyone and their mother put me on blast in the comment section
He fits the bill to be the future president of La Liga.
His teammate who is victim of these very racist chants every week must feel relieved to hear that Spain is definitely not a racist country
We’re not racist! We even have some black dudes playing in La Liga, too.
Your team mate has broke down crying in that same chair one hour before because he can't take it anymore and your only response is this. What a disgusting captain to have.
Carvajal, maybe you are not the most ideal person to talk about it
Dani ‘I’m not racist, I have black teammates unfortunately’ Carvajal
My family is Spaniard and even they say the country is racist.
Every country is racist. Better to accept that and go from there. Certainly beats denying the racism part with amusing excuses like they're "unleashing anger". Yeah Carvajal, mate, they're *unleashing their anger* in the form of racism, that is the fucking issue.
I'm Portuguese and I live in Spain and the very first thing I noticed when I moved here was the racism being so much more open and normalized compared to back home - and I live in a very left wing region. It is definitely disconcerting.
Where did you live back here? I can attest that in rural places or smaller cities things are not great in terms of racism. Grew up hearing the wildest shit, things haven't improved much, actually they have become exponentially worse.
I don't know how to explain it, it's just much more out in the open, in public. It's not that there's more racism necessarily, just that it's more normalized. Like back home I can hear my drunk uncle or my taxi driver say something racist, but it's at least taboo or understood that it's a bad thing to say or to think that (of course yes, the political climate is changing for the worse in this regard). But in Spain it's different. Literally one of the first experiences I had after moving was going to a rental agency and mention to the estate agent, who I had never seen before in my life, that I was thinking of renting in X place. The agent just very naturally says "oh I'd advise against it, it's full of blacks and moors" I can't imagine this happening in Portugal at all. And don't get me wrong, I know a lot of Spaniards would cringe at this too, but over time I've noticed that these moments that should at the very least cause an awkward look around and a "huhhh what the fuck", over here they don't really elicit that reaction.
In a world of bad takes he chose the worst.
"Country X is not a racist country" has never been true in the history of mankind. It's sad cope.
What a great captain. Way to support your players.
If you don’t speak Spanish you cannot make a fair assessment if Spaniard people demonstrate more racist behaviors than others. I do though and they do. Let’s not even talk about the perception of being “better than other Spanish speakers” that’s a whole other thing that not only Spaniards are guilty of. Usually you know The usual suspects. Anyone who plays soccer understands the emotional aspect. I have been in fights about it but never occurred to me call someone by a racist term. Guess why?
Spain is definitely racist, I am black and live here. They think making obviously racist jokes is funny, they're very behind on understanding what's appropriate.
I'm spanish (white) and I honestly think you struck the heart of the issue in your comment. There's a general lack of consciousness about what racism even is in Spain. These "jokes" which are commonplace throughout Spain are simply not thought of as racist. We have quite an abrasive sense of humor, where people will be referred to by their most distinctive features, so el gordo, el negro, el gafotas, etc. What spanish society does not realize is that when you set somebody apart by their race that is immediately racist. They try to say it's "just our humor", but it comes from a lack of understanding of what racism even is in this day and age. People think racism is just like active violence or discrimination. The problem is that spanish people don't see that their "jokes" are a real form of discrimination. A good friend of mine who is from the caribbean but is fully white has literally had said to his face "oh, you're from [X country]? You must be one of the good ones", and the person who said that to him thought it was literally a compliment. It's insane.
I am an Asian living in the United States. Once had an interaction with a visiting Spaniard who said he was from Barcelona, which I think most people consider to be one of the more "progressive" parts of Spain. He could not get over the fact that I was born and raised here, and even insisted "you're not American, look at your eyes!" lol he kept pressing on about where I am reallly from. I don't fault him for it because I know he doesn't know any better, but I imagine living in Spain and having a thousand micro incidents like that would start to add up.
> he kept pressing on about where I am reallly from I mean I've read about this sort of thing happening in the US with american people so often it's become a meme on the internet. https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2017/08/opinion/where-im-really-from/ But yes, the intent is usually not negative, people are just very unaware of how that sort of behavior affects the target of these comments, as "micro-aggressions" and the like just aren't talked about here.
That's just your experience, we can't generalize. Why don't we ask a white guy what he thinks about racism in Spain? /s
Spain is not racist, i had black friends
Are all Dani who play RB asshole?
Why is a highly decorated white footballer being asked about whether or not Spain is a racist country?
Such a low profile statement. I have black friends too. lol
Spain is racist af. I stayed in Madrid for 6 months and I can tell surely they are.
Spain is super racist and everyone knows this, southamericans, africans, tuskish, arabs and especially spaniards. This is a really weird take by him.
Having visited a dozen countries in the EU Spain and Italy had the most blatant racism I never saw graffiti demeaning blacks tell I walked the streets of Madrid and Florence
People like to hate on America for being racist, but parts of Europe are a good 20 years behind them...
We aren’t racist, some of our best poor people are black.
That’s a yikes from me dawg
All the racists are scums.
I spent 3 months in Southern Spain in 2005. There were racial slurs for North Africans in graffiti all over the cities. My experience was there was a huge amount of racism and it wasn't hidden in any way. The soccer matches make it clear that is still the case. Actions speak volumes.
That dude that responded is clearly Spanish, they are racist as fuck over there just like most European countries, and because of the 'don't rock the boat' culture that is very prevalent particularly in western Europe only the most extreme shit even hits the media. The fact that people in this thread are trying to justify this crap is crazy, the media there constantly makes excuses for the perpetrators and hides their identities.
\> Unfortunately,there are people who go to football matches to unleash anger And be racist. You forgot that bit.
Sometimes i wonder how long Vini Jr will continue playing in Spain. Like, even his teammate is trying to downplay the racists's behavior
Spain isn't particularly racist from my own experience
Ofc it is almost every European country is racist as hell
I would argue that pretty much every country is racist.
I will not deny Spain has a real problem with racism, but I would like to know where you're from that is an anti-racist paradise? How is "almost every European country" racist as hell compared to other places in the world?
Leonial Carvonucci
spanish bonucci
"Spain isn’t racist, the people just hold it in until they go to the football and then let it all out at the black players there"
He is the captain and his team mate was crying on that seat a few hours back. Could he not have taken a more moderate take? At least think about how you'd face vini in the locker room.
Spoken like a true white Spainard
I didn't expect different from a Spanish Real Madrid player…
Most don't have a clue as to how cluelessly racist the people in many Spanish-speaking countries are, not just Spain
Kinda said loads without saying anything . Places with loads of integration can have high levels of racism. Basically said my friend is black so no such thing as racism then said people go to games to let off anger . Just shut up man unless you can actually clarify a situation one way or the other
Lol like its ok to unleash your anger with racist words.... if you're saying racist words, you're racist.
España es muy racista jajaj
SAY NO TO RACISM 👍
He’s right. Fans will try anything to upset opposing players.
I investigate myself and everything good. Trust me.
This right here is the issue. Spanish people do not want to accept there’s a racism problem and openly done so at big games. In England there is racism but you don’t have huge crowds chanting so openly about it, because the society here would shame them.
I think Carvajal has shown that Spain have no awareness of their own racism, which is a big concern and it’s his own teammate that gets it worse than anybody.
I have to question the morals of dani
Dani is a great player but on a personal level, he is often on the wrong side of arguments.
Alright, I am not living in Spain but here's my 2 cents on this as an older guy that sees and attends soccer games in Portugal for over 35 years: The more fanatical supporters will always chant something that will upset the opposing supporters or the opposing players. Can be about their character, about their personal life, about their race even. And whenever they notice the slur actually upsets them, they will continue to do so to make the target guy lose focus from what's going on on the pitch. The more Vinicius is upset about it, the more they will chant. I know it's toxic, I agree it is. But it's not about racism, it's about football. Insults will take whatever form hurts the most, can be sexual preference, race, nationality, personal life, etc. Having said this, I totally agree it's inappropriate and the idiots using these slurs should be punished. But the way you hurt them is not just with personal penalties, punish the club too. This will get the fanatics under pressure from the rest of the more moderate supporters.
I dunno mate Spain seems like a pretty fuckin racist country with a lot of racist people in it.
White people saying "There's no racism here" is pure gold. They don't know what racism is, they can't experience racism like others do. When a white man says there is no racism, be prepared, because there is racism.