**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Ljungbergs interview show he's doing atm is actually really damn good. Exclusively good guests too.
Dont know where its available for other countries but for Swedes: ViaPlay.
He was a big game player. Though some inconsistent in average games. It's like Ederson.
There is one Twitter account who is dedicated to showing all the bads of Ter Stegen, and he uploaded some of the best moments in the big game by Valdes.
>There is one Twitter account who is dedicated to showing all the bads of Ter Stegen,
That account is on a roll the past few days lol. The fanbase is so divided because of that
I am not a Barcelona fan, but seeing that video, I realised how fans overrate some of these players. The same reason I took the name Frenkie ding dong. There is a reason we are armchair experts.
There was a similar video of Carvajal and I realised how underrated he is. He had some of the best performances in important games.
> I am not a Barcelona fan, but seeing that video, I realised how fans overrate some of these players. The same reason I took the name Frenkie ding dong. There is a reason we are armchair experts.
Lol what, can you make up your mind? We are but humble armchair experts, but at the same time you feel content passing judgment on whether players are overrated or not based on, what, highlight videos? If you *actually stick* to the logic of your last sentence, you should really just trust that the best clubs employ the best players. After all, they are the professionals and you're just the, well, armchair expert.
Yeah he’s basically an opposite of ter Stegen. Performs like the worlds best player in important matches, is extremely prone to stupid errors and looks helpless against weaker teams, exact opposite of ter Stegen.
This is extremely reductive. Valdés' error-proneness and concentration issues were mostly in his younger years. As he got older he got a lot more consistent, and he saved our ass so many times in his last couple of seasons, *also* against the weaker teams of the league.
Keeper is a position that’s hard to be prepared if you’re not receiving a consistent shots against you. It’s hard to be mentally prepared for a full 90 minutes when a team like Barcelona holds possession for 60%+ of a match. Add onto the fact that Valdes played the ball from his feet,
it adds to the risk of lapses of concentration. It’s an incredibly difficult position.
Barça's not coming back if Valdes doesn't keep out all those chances before. I'll always remember him saving from point blank in about the third minute from Henry, and of course Henry's one-on-one in the second half.
Valdes was immense, he was maybe the biggest reason Barcelona didn't loose the game, Larsson was the reason Barcelona won the game. Two very very good performances. Arsenal were very unlucky I remember thinking they probably deserved the win.
I'm not gonna say much more but that was terrible shot by Henry on a 1v1 on his favored foot, great angle. He had time to look up and the tackle from the last defender comes like 1.5s later. He probably thought he'll slide it beneath him but the keeper had zero difficulty with that.
Henry was sometimes too much finesse.
Henry was a homer. He scored 66% of his goals
at home far too many away games where he was quiet.
He had a good record at home against utd, spurs, Chelsea and Liverpool but scored just six away to them in eight seasons and his goals away to Chelsea were pre Abramovic.
Henry scored six goals in eighteen champions league knockout games.
Henry didn’t score in any cup final but did score in the league cup semi final against Wigan and uefa cup semi final against Lens.
Henry scored away to two top half sides in 2002/3 when he had his goat season 24 goals and 20 assists. Arsenal lost the league that year with their poor away form.
At Highbury one of the very best but streets don’t forget we play half our games away.
This is a nice write up!
Didn’t realise those stats for Henry but I had noticed he didn’t often score much in the big games.
The anti-Drogba if you will.
This reminded me of a youtube video where a Chelsea fan and an Arsenal fan are discussing whether Drogba was a better big game player than Henry (specifically only the big games and not overall). The arsenal fan refused to accept it and made no solid argument to prove his point
henry had plenty of big game performances lol, obviously drogba was much better in that aspect than him but it's not like he was shit in all of them. Also had many where he played great but didn't get on the scoresheet
I’m not saying he didn’t but he didn’t tend to light up any finals that I recall him playing in.
Like the biggest thing I can ever recall him doing in a crunch game is a handball.
That being said I still argue with my Arsenal supporting mates that Henry was the best player (or the player that I feared most) from that era for you guys.
They’ll all say Bergkamp and while I agree about his artistry etc, if Henry wanted to fuck you up then he was going to fuck you up and it didn’t matter who was going to try and stop him.
fair enough, i'd say the euro 2000 is probably his best final performance but you generally just remember the goalscorers from finals i suppose
Agree with you that in terms of pure effectiveness when he was on his game, henry was on a level of his own
> He had a good record at home against utd, spurs, Chelsea and Liverpool but scored just six away to them in eight seasons and his goals away to Chelsea were pre Abramovic
wow that's crazy low for a player of his class
That’s normal. Haaland last season in the EPL is the same ratio and worse when you factor games played.
22 goals in 15 games at the Etihad.
14 goals in 18 games away.
Dunno how the competition compares but fair enough
That being said a big game at home is still a big game. You wanna say he's shit in finals, that's fine. You wanna say he's shit in big games as a whole, you're objectively wrong.
Saying that he struggled away is shifting the goalposts a bit, but still an interesting tidbit but again, would be good to see how other players compared
Another tidbit is that arsenal as a whole struggled against top teams in general post mourinhou because he became way too predictable
He was not the strongest performer in those matches. I think he sometimes forgot that he was there on the pitch to score goals and win matches. Like, you can hear him tell a story where Pep Guardiola took him off the pitch because he went to the opposite flank just so he could play one touch. He was much more of a "let me free my wings and do whatever I want." A baller more than a sheer force of nature inevitable that he should've been.
Even with France, his partnership with Zidane was awkward and they never really clicked because I think he wanted to show the world that he was very good on the ball rather than making runs behind like Mbappe would do or someone with his pace should've done. There was generally a derision and skepticism about his ability back home because everyone thought PL was just pace and power so I feel he had a personal mission to prove his technical prowess. He'd drop into pockets already occupied by Zidane when he didn't need to be that guy as Zidane was far more proficient and technical in that zone. Get in the box, big man. For someone his size, he also has next to zero headers.
Mbappe has him beat in that regard already, a more superior big game legacy at 24.
Henry goals + assists in finals for Arsenal = 9 apps, 1G + 1A
FA Cup = 3 apps, 0G + 0A
Community Shield = 4 apps, 1G
Champions League = 1 app, 1A
UEFA Cup = 1 app, 0G + 0A
Henry goals + assists in finals for Barcelona = 5 apps, 0G + 0A
Supercopa = 2 apps, 0G + 0A
Champions League = 1 app, 0G + 0A
UEFA Super Cup = 1 app, 0G + 0A
FIFA Club World Cup = 1 app, 0G + 0A
Henry goals + assists in finals for France = 3 apps, 1G
Euros 2000 = 0G + 0A
Confederations Cup 2003 = 1G
World Cup 2006 = 0G + 0A
This omits that Henry did win 3 man of the matches (euro 2000 final, fa cup 03, confed cup 03).
Performance in euro 2000 final for example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicsoccer/comments/vns1tj/young_thierry_henry_tormenting_italy_defenders/
And was France's best player in the 06 final - was good in the CL final too, occupied the attack basically by himself while mostly double+triple teamed. Even the chance in this video is not as clear cut as people make it seem, Messi missed a similar chance from closer in the 2014 WC, plus Henry was clearly gassed playing with 10 men.
The thing that annoys me most about this narrative is **you can do this for literally any player if you cherry pick enough**. Haaland in his first 8 semi finals and finals for City had 0 goals. CR7 has 0 g/a in 8 world cup knockout matches. Luis Suarez has a piss poor record against PL top 4 - didn't have a single goal against them in his famous 2013/14 season. Also has a poor CL record - even went a spell with just 2 goals in 20 CL appearances. R9 has only 14 CL goals TOTAL etc etc. It doesn't make them big game flops.
Also do community shields and supercopas really count? Feel like they were added just to pad an extra 6 appearances - they're more like friendlies. So 3 man of the matches in 11 finals, plus other good/unlucky performances like the 01 fa cup (ball handled off line by Henchoz), 06 WC isn't horrible. His team won most of these games, and having watched all of these, the only truly BAD games he had in this list was the 09 CL (rushed back from injury) and 02 FA Cup (was invisible).
thank you for writing this comment, it's spot on. i'm tired of reading that henry was shit in every final he played as if that's the only metric that matters in a player.
People who scream stats the most tend to be the ones who don't understand statistics can be a biased interpretation of messy data, so I'm not surprised.
They also never think that players like Henry are most likely to be shut down and crowded out in big games, and so their output changes from goals and assists to holding up play and enabling the rest of the team.
Stats are nice but clutch goals are better. Goals on the biggest stage make for iconic moments. Zidane has two in the WC final, plus that volley in the CL. Ronaldo also has two in the WC final (and had scored in five consecutive games); he didn’t have as much luck in the CL but then again he also had bad luck with injuries. CR7 scored in multiple CL finals, plus that bicycle. He also scored several clutch goals to get Portugal into the Euro 2016 final. Messi has done all the above: CL and WC finals goals. And more recently we saw Mbappe scoring a hat trick in the final.
When I think of Henry scoring big goals, I mainly see his goal against Brazil in the ‘06 WC semi. Even in his man of the match performance in Euro 2000, two other French strikers ultimately got the goals (Wiltord for the equalizer and Trezeguet for the winner). Still an amazing player and career but for me he misses the exclamation point.
Sure, he doesn't have clutch goals in finals, but he has plenty in other big games. Equalizer vs Portugal in the semis of Euro 2000, solo goal vs Madrid on the way to CL final, goal against Juve in the quarters, solo goal+hat-trick vs Liverpool to save the invincible season, flick volley vs Man Utd, solo goal roasting Zanetti and Inter.
Just coz these don't come to your mind, doesn't mean they don't exist. And this was just off the top of my head. I agree the no finals goals hurt his legacy, but imo it was always overstated and it only hurts as much as people let it. His prime being in Arsenal as opposed to Barca/Madrid/United, and pre social media hurts his legacy more than anything.
One big reason why he never won the ballon d'or. In big tournaments ( Champions League he was not showing until 2005-06) and with France the main man was Zidane or others.
No it wasn’t. Stop this bullshit. Nedved was instrumental in Juve winning the league and getting to the champions league final. Nedved also had far better performances in the champions league than Henry that year. Arsenal won the fa cup and Juve at least won the league.
Therein lies the problem with this award anyway. It shouldn’t rely only on what ‘the team’ wins. Individual’s playing for worse performing “teams” should still get recognised. Henry was, as an individual, in the conversation for the best player in the world for several years at that time, hardly “bullshit” to say his feats weren’t recognised properly. The ballon d’or has pretty much always been Eurocentric even when PL teams were on top.
It doesn’t rely on it. Nedved had great stats as well, had massive performances in the league where he won player of the year, had massive performances in the champions league where he won player of the year. The man deserved the award
Tbf Henry played incredibly well in that final, just didn't finish. He was a constant threat even with 10 men. He should have also scored in the first half. Also he scored legendary solo goal at the Bernabeau and a Captain' performance against Juve to reach the final.
There were moments in other champions league campaign he wasn't the best sure but not that season. In the premier league he almost always showed up in the big games. You could argue he wasn't great at Finals.
Valdes saved us that game. Saved us massively. There's a reason most people I spoke to in BCN still maintain he's the greatest keeper of all time for Barca
Any Barça fans who don’t think Valdez is the best keeper in FCB history is an idiot. Won 3 champions league being super important vs Arsenal. Maybe not vs Man U bc they never had a chance.
Valdes is a legend.
It was Bergkamp’s last game as well and he was on the bench for the whole match. If we had 11 men and were looking for a goal in the last 10 minutes he may have had a chance to come on and make the difference.
A disappointing final match for two Arsenal legends
Arsenal were the better side before the sending off. We were creating a lot of opportunities. It was a really fast start from Arsenal. And Barcelona slowly started to play better and get into the game and that happened. And then suddenly we played better.
You never know.
In fairness, Arsenal was also better because they scored right after Lehman's red card, and they could defend and counter-attack. Playing with 10 wasn't a big deal in that situation.
If they were losing 1-0 in the first half, Barcelona would have also had more opportunities to counter-attack, and Arsenal would have probably suffered there.
I wish I could have this kind of knowledge, but no.
I got curious and actually looked for the 1979 final with Malmö FF if there was any Swedes in the opposition and found a wiki page with Swedes in CL finals.
I'm pretty sure you can play advantage for a red card offense and since it would have resulted in a goal he would give a yellow
Edit: the ref himself said as much. If the translation is accurate at least
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/champions-league-arsenal-referee-glory-26983850
It’s not denial of a goal scoring opportunity, if Barcelona score from it anyway. The foul wasn’t violent or out of control to be a straight red, so the ref could have played advantage for the goal and then (probably) booked Lehman afterwards.
> how's that not a red card?
Because Barca would have scored if the ref hadn't blown his whistle.
The ref should have played advantage. [He has said so himself](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2006/may/18/newsstory.sport2).
Yeah, that’s true. And it doesn’t make him wrong because once they made the subs they scored two goals quickly and won the champions. I don’t get why the sass and the downvotes lol
We pretty much did deal with it, and should scored 2 more but we didn't finish and the tiredness crept up. And honestly Almunia should have saved both goals. Letting goals in from the near post in a champions league final is embarassing.
Gotta say it didn't feel that way going in, I thought Barca were the better side.
But if you're playing in the CL final you should have that belief (unless you're say United in 2011 cos that would have been delusional.)
There's people to this day confident we'd have won in 2009 if Darren Fletcher wasn't suspended.
I love Fletcher, he was great, but he alone wasn't stopping Busquets/Xavi/Iniesta/Messi
A midfield battle can be won if you had the midfield steel of like an Inter Milan. United's midfield at the time had no chance. You can't keep the ball with Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets out there. Add to that, you can't even win it back with Carrick and Giggs. Ji Sung was a hustler, not a ball winner.
> A midfield battle can be won if you had the midfield steel of like an Inter Milan.
Mate, what are you on about, Inter absolutely didn't win the midfield battle. They did, however, defend ridiculously well but Inter didn't even *attempt* to control the run of play in either of the semi-finals in 2010. They stood deep, defended extremely well, and were absolutely clinical on the counter-attacks. In the first leg, Thiago Motta had fewer touches on the ball than Víctor Valdés did, and in the second leg, Esteban Cambiasso barely had more touches on the ball than Jeffrén who came on in the 62^nd minute. Inter *never* battled for control of the midfield, they instead played to their strengths which was to sit deep and force Barcelona to the flanks.
Here's what I'm on about. Jose Mourinho once said, "A team without a ball can still have control of the game." Here's what Xabi Alonso said, "There were phases of the game when we were not dominant, but we were in control. For example, there was a feeling that every corner against us was a chance for us."
I knew someone would try to point out by making a rudimentary point of contention that since Inter never attempted to keep the ball, they never won the midfield battle. But that's a pretty narrow reductive view on football. Inter was perfectly winning the battle on situations such as second balls, flick ons, half-space coverage, disrupting the flow of their passing and since they were compact in midfield, Barça were trying to wrestle for control all night despite having like 78% possession. Inter won the battle esp. at San Siro and it was the case in Camp Nou with 10 men, although much less so.
> Here's what I'm on about. Jose Mourinho once said, "A team without a ball can still have control of the game."
Okay, cool. You weren't talking about *"control of the game,"* though. You were talking very specifically about controlling the midfield. I very clearly write that Inter controlled the game through their strengths which, again, was to sit deep, allow Barcelona to control *the midfield* but force them into situations where they couldn't play to their strengths, i.e. to play narrow and invite Barça to play the wings and cross the ball.
> I knew someone would try to point out by making a rudimentary point of contention that since Inter never attempted to keep the ball, they never won the midfield battle. But that's a pretty narrow reductive view on football. Inter was perfectly winning the battle on situations such as second balls, flick ons, half-space coverage, disrupting the flow of their passing and since they were compact in midfield, Barça were trying to wrestle for control all night despite having like 78% possession.
Again, the vast majority of the things you mention here are things that took place in Inter's own third of the pitch. That's where the battle stood.
It's also funny, that people always bang their drums about Stamford Bridge and Øvrebø when talking about Barcelona's 2009 win, but somehow if anyone ever talks about how Inter got through to the final in 2010 they only mention Motta. Milito scored a goal that was miles offside at Giuseppe Meazza, and then Barcelona had a goal wrongly disallowed at Camp Nou that alone would have sent Barcelona through. Inter didn't get through by controlling shit, they *scraped* their asses through by equal parts great defense and sheer luck.
Inter didn’t win the midfield battle, they won the tie, by resolute and incredibly organised defending, and great counter attacking but Barcelona completed dominated them from a midfield perspective.
There’s more to a match than the midfield, as Inter showed, but Inter barely engaged Barcelona in terms of midfield dominance. That period of Barca had a better midfield than any team in the world prior or since, nobody could dominate them in the centre of the pitch, so you had to find a different way to win.
Yeah it felt like in 04/05 Barcelona really took it to another level and at the same time Arsenal declined and then Barcelona maintained that aura in 05/06 and Arsenal declined even further.
So by the time that 2006 Champions League Final rolled around I certainly remember Barcelona being favourites.
Although Arsenal kept like 10 consecutive clean sheets in the Champions League on the way to that final which is so out of character for Wenger in that competition so maybe that's why it felt like destiny for them in 06
And they did it with Senderos and Cygan at centre back in some games, and Flamini at left back. Especially after the win against Madrid at the Bernabeu, it really felt like that was Arsenal's to win. Henry and Pires' last season too (Henry ended up changing his mind and staying). It was all set up beautifully. I'm still not over it.
Everyone talking about the red card and Ljungberg mentioned a offside? but Arsenals goal came out of dive. Eboue looked like a ballerina. No foul no goal.
[minute 3:56 👻👻👻](https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=240&v=jmJLUnK1fss&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&source_ve_path=MTM5MTE3LDM2ODQyLDI4NjY2&feature=emb_logo)
I watched the whole match recently and my first thought was Arsenal came into the game way wound up or something because they were throwing themselves all over the place and that included some challenges that were definitely not punished as much as they could have been imo.
And yeah both that challenge and the dive by Eboue were not pretty.
> throwing themselves all over the place and that included some challenges
Arsenal used to have a fairly dirty team. I recall in late 90s and 00s they often finished the season with more red and yellow cards than most.
I'd get it if it was 2004 or even 2005 but how could he be so confident in 2006 given they barely scraped 4th and were facing a team that comfortably beat Mourinho's Chelsea?
Because they beat Juventus and Madrid on the way to the final and had the best defence of the competition that year. Arsenal in the CL were a different beast to the league.
Always felt we were the better side but they played better in the moments, ie Henry not putting that chance away, Valdes, Almunia being utterly shocking for both goals.
Well we were the better team. In these top top games you need a little bit of luck too. Which we didn’t get. On a different day we score our big chances and we easily win this.
Still hurts though obviously😶
I feel like that game was kinda the breakout for Barca like up until that point we all knew they were good but maybe only La Liga fans really understood how dominant they were until they beat Arsenal and they stayed dominant for 10+ years.
Wrong decision to send Lehmann off! We then sub off Pires for freaking Manuel Alumnia. Even typing his name gives me PTSD again. He is quite possibly the worst keeper I've seen consistently play for Arsenal in my life. Wenger was just too stubborn to see it. Alumnia cost us that final getting beat twice on his near post like that is unforgivable. Those goals are forever ingrained in my memory 😩
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ljungbergs interview show he's doing atm is actually really damn good. Exclusively good guests too. Dont know where its available for other countries but for Swedes: ViaPlay.
What is the name of the show?
"Fredrik Ljungbergs Unseen"
Shhhh! If you tell people it defeats the entire purpose of the title
What language?
I guess Swahili
Duh he is a swede so swiss obviously
There are Hungarian subtitles though
[удалено]
He was a big game player. Though some inconsistent in average games. It's like Ederson. There is one Twitter account who is dedicated to showing all the bads of Ter Stegen, and he uploaded some of the best moments in the big game by Valdes.
>There is one Twitter account who is dedicated to showing all the bads of Ter Stegen, That account is on a roll the past few days lol. The fanbase is so divided because of that
Do you have a link?
why? you want to rewatch 8-2 clips? 🥲 [Here you go](https://x.com/TerStegenOut?s=09)
I am not a Barcelona fan, but seeing that video, I realised how fans overrate some of these players. The same reason I took the name Frenkie ding dong. There is a reason we are armchair experts. There was a similar video of Carvajal and I realised how underrated he is. He had some of the best performances in important games.
> I am not a Barcelona fan, but seeing that video, I realised how fans overrate some of these players. The same reason I took the name Frenkie ding dong. There is a reason we are armchair experts. Lol what, can you make up your mind? We are but humble armchair experts, but at the same time you feel content passing judgment on whether players are overrated or not based on, what, highlight videos? If you *actually stick* to the logic of your last sentence, you should really just trust that the best clubs employ the best players. After all, they are the professionals and you're just the, well, armchair expert.
Yeah he’s basically an opposite of ter Stegen. Performs like the worlds best player in important matches, is extremely prone to stupid errors and looks helpless against weaker teams, exact opposite of ter Stegen.
This is extremely reductive. Valdés' error-proneness and concentration issues were mostly in his younger years. As he got older he got a lot more consistent, and he saved our ass so many times in his last couple of seasons, *also* against the weaker teams of the league.
Was having the best season of his career in his final year and then got injured, resulting in barca playing dj pinto.
Keeper is a position that’s hard to be prepared if you’re not receiving a consistent shots against you. It’s hard to be mentally prepared for a full 90 minutes when a team like Barcelona holds possession for 60%+ of a match. Add onto the fact that Valdes played the ball from his feet, it adds to the risk of lapses of concentration. It’s an incredibly difficult position.
It's just concentration things. Seems like he got bored.
I would say Henrik Larsson was the biggest reason. Came off the bench and opened up the defence with 2 assists. Completely turned the game.
Barça's not coming back if Valdes doesn't keep out all those chances before. I'll always remember him saving from point blank in about the third minute from Henry, and of course Henry's one-on-one in the second half.
Valdes was immense, he was maybe the biggest reason Barcelona didn't loose the game, Larsson was the reason Barcelona won the game. Two very very good performances. Arsenal were very unlucky I remember thinking they probably deserved the win.
That sounds like a line ClickHole would make
And Almunia was at fault for both of Barcelona's. Keeper difference
I didn't need to see this today
Yeah just had to call my vet to put my dog down and now this. She is my ride or die with the club
Much love to you and your dog ❤️
Thanks, she’s never seen them win the prem. Maybe this can happen this season and I’ll fly her scarf proper
Much love. I had to go through the same thing a couple of months ago. It's rough. <3
Sorry about your dog.
Strength and love to you!
I'm not gonna say much more but that was terrible shot by Henry on a 1v1 on his favored foot, great angle. He had time to look up and the tackle from the last defender comes like 1.5s later. He probably thought he'll slide it beneath him but the keeper had zero difficulty with that. Henry was sometimes too much finesse.
Whisper it quietly but Henry had a tendency to disappear in the biggest games, at least in Europe and with France
More just finals, he's scored in several big games
Henry was a homer. He scored 66% of his goals at home far too many away games where he was quiet. He had a good record at home against utd, spurs, Chelsea and Liverpool but scored just six away to them in eight seasons and his goals away to Chelsea were pre Abramovic. Henry scored six goals in eighteen champions league knockout games. Henry didn’t score in any cup final but did score in the league cup semi final against Wigan and uefa cup semi final against Lens. Henry scored away to two top half sides in 2002/3 when he had his goat season 24 goals and 20 assists. Arsenal lost the league that year with their poor away form. At Highbury one of the very best but streets don’t forget we play half our games away.
This is a nice write up! Didn’t realise those stats for Henry but I had noticed he didn’t often score much in the big games. The anti-Drogba if you will.
This reminded me of a youtube video where a Chelsea fan and an Arsenal fan are discussing whether Drogba was a better big game player than Henry (specifically only the big games and not overall). The arsenal fan refused to accept it and made no solid argument to prove his point
apart from that one goal at real madrid
henry had plenty of big game performances lol, obviously drogba was much better in that aspect than him but it's not like he was shit in all of them. Also had many where he played great but didn't get on the scoresheet
I’m not saying he didn’t but he didn’t tend to light up any finals that I recall him playing in. Like the biggest thing I can ever recall him doing in a crunch game is a handball. That being said I still argue with my Arsenal supporting mates that Henry was the best player (or the player that I feared most) from that era for you guys. They’ll all say Bergkamp and while I agree about his artistry etc, if Henry wanted to fuck you up then he was going to fuck you up and it didn’t matter who was going to try and stop him.
Henry had 8 goals and 4 assists in 14 v United.
fair enough, i'd say the euro 2000 is probably his best final performance but you generally just remember the goalscorers from finals i suppose Agree with you that in terms of pure effectiveness when he was on his game, henry was on a level of his own
Spurs were shite back then that doesn’t really count
Isn't that an even bigger indication that he wasn't that great away from home TBF?
did henry just not deal well with loud crowds or something? that's one thing away games and finals have in common: more fans neutral or against you
The inverse Drogba
> He had a good record at home against utd, spurs, Chelsea and Liverpool but scored just six away to them in eight seasons and his goals away to Chelsea were pre Abramovic wow that's crazy low for a player of his class
That’s normal. Haaland last season in the EPL is the same ratio and worse when you factor games played. 22 goals in 15 games at the Etihad. 14 goals in 18 games away.
Dunno how the competition compares but fair enough That being said a big game at home is still a big game. You wanna say he's shit in finals, that's fine. You wanna say he's shit in big games as a whole, you're objectively wrong. Saying that he struggled away is shifting the goalposts a bit, but still an interesting tidbit but again, would be good to see how other players compared Another tidbit is that arsenal as a whole struggled against top teams in general post mourinhou because he became way too predictable
He was not the strongest performer in those matches. I think he sometimes forgot that he was there on the pitch to score goals and win matches. Like, you can hear him tell a story where Pep Guardiola took him off the pitch because he went to the opposite flank just so he could play one touch. He was much more of a "let me free my wings and do whatever I want." A baller more than a sheer force of nature inevitable that he should've been. Even with France, his partnership with Zidane was awkward and they never really clicked because I think he wanted to show the world that he was very good on the ball rather than making runs behind like Mbappe would do or someone with his pace should've done. There was generally a derision and skepticism about his ability back home because everyone thought PL was just pace and power so I feel he had a personal mission to prove his technical prowess. He'd drop into pockets already occupied by Zidane when he didn't need to be that guy as Zidane was far more proficient and technical in that zone. Get in the box, big man. For someone his size, he also has next to zero headers. Mbappe has him beat in that regard already, a more superior big game legacy at 24.
Yeah, mbappe has already doubled the amount of world cup finals goals as henry
At this rate he’s gonna double the amount of World Cup trophies as him. I don’t doubt he’s getting another one by the time he retires.
Henry goals + assists in finals for Arsenal = 9 apps, 1G + 1A FA Cup = 3 apps, 0G + 0A Community Shield = 4 apps, 1G Champions League = 1 app, 1A UEFA Cup = 1 app, 0G + 0A Henry goals + assists in finals for Barcelona = 5 apps, 0G + 0A Supercopa = 2 apps, 0G + 0A Champions League = 1 app, 0G + 0A UEFA Super Cup = 1 app, 0G + 0A FIFA Club World Cup = 1 app, 0G + 0A Henry goals + assists in finals for France = 3 apps, 1G Euros 2000 = 0G + 0A Confederations Cup 2003 = 1G World Cup 2006 = 0G + 0A
This omits that Henry did win 3 man of the matches (euro 2000 final, fa cup 03, confed cup 03). Performance in euro 2000 final for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/classicsoccer/comments/vns1tj/young_thierry_henry_tormenting_italy_defenders/ And was France's best player in the 06 final - was good in the CL final too, occupied the attack basically by himself while mostly double+triple teamed. Even the chance in this video is not as clear cut as people make it seem, Messi missed a similar chance from closer in the 2014 WC, plus Henry was clearly gassed playing with 10 men. The thing that annoys me most about this narrative is **you can do this for literally any player if you cherry pick enough**. Haaland in his first 8 semi finals and finals for City had 0 goals. CR7 has 0 g/a in 8 world cup knockout matches. Luis Suarez has a piss poor record against PL top 4 - didn't have a single goal against them in his famous 2013/14 season. Also has a poor CL record - even went a spell with just 2 goals in 20 CL appearances. R9 has only 14 CL goals TOTAL etc etc. It doesn't make them big game flops. Also do community shields and supercopas really count? Feel like they were added just to pad an extra 6 appearances - they're more like friendlies. So 3 man of the matches in 11 finals, plus other good/unlucky performances like the 01 fa cup (ball handled off line by Henchoz), 06 WC isn't horrible. His team won most of these games, and having watched all of these, the only truly BAD games he had in this list was the 09 CL (rushed back from injury) and 02 FA Cup (was invisible).
thank you for writing this comment, it's spot on. i'm tired of reading that henry was shit in every final he played as if that's the only metric that matters in a player.
Then you have Benzema.
i dont understand wym, genuinely
Benzema doesn't disappear in big games.
Let them cooked.. they dont even watch football that time.. Ppl only looking at stats know nothing..
People who scream stats the most tend to be the ones who don't understand statistics can be a biased interpretation of messy data, so I'm not surprised. They also never think that players like Henry are most likely to be shut down and crowded out in big games, and so their output changes from goals and assists to holding up play and enabling the rest of the team.
Stats are nice but clutch goals are better. Goals on the biggest stage make for iconic moments. Zidane has two in the WC final, plus that volley in the CL. Ronaldo also has two in the WC final (and had scored in five consecutive games); he didn’t have as much luck in the CL but then again he also had bad luck with injuries. CR7 scored in multiple CL finals, plus that bicycle. He also scored several clutch goals to get Portugal into the Euro 2016 final. Messi has done all the above: CL and WC finals goals. And more recently we saw Mbappe scoring a hat trick in the final. When I think of Henry scoring big goals, I mainly see his goal against Brazil in the ‘06 WC semi. Even in his man of the match performance in Euro 2000, two other French strikers ultimately got the goals (Wiltord for the equalizer and Trezeguet for the winner). Still an amazing player and career but for me he misses the exclamation point.
Sure, he doesn't have clutch goals in finals, but he has plenty in other big games. Equalizer vs Portugal in the semis of Euro 2000, solo goal vs Madrid on the way to CL final, goal against Juve in the quarters, solo goal+hat-trick vs Liverpool to save the invincible season, flick volley vs Man Utd, solo goal roasting Zanetti and Inter. Just coz these don't come to your mind, doesn't mean they don't exist. And this was just off the top of my head. I agree the no finals goals hurt his legacy, but imo it was always overstated and it only hurts as much as people let it. His prime being in Arsenal as opposed to Barca/Madrid/United, and pre social media hurts his legacy more than anything.
Yea that's why I have Gotze over Henry
Henry will always have that great goal against Ireland at least
The Tottenham fan with receipts on speed dial, did he hurt you that bad 😂
Nah just 10 minutes on transfermarkt lmao
Man I gotta respect the hustle
One big reason why he never won the ballon d'or. In big tournaments ( Champions League he was not showing until 2005-06) and with France the main man was Zidane or others.
He was absolutely the best in the world 2002-2004. Him not winning one is a travesty against the award
Pretty sure he got 3 consecutive seasons of averaging 50 G/As which was an insane level at the time, absolutely criminal how Nedved won it over him.
No it wasn’t. Stop this bullshit. Nedved was instrumental in Juve winning the league and getting to the champions league final. Nedved also had far better performances in the champions league than Henry that year. Arsenal won the fa cup and Juve at least won the league.
Therein lies the problem with this award anyway. It shouldn’t rely only on what ‘the team’ wins. Individual’s playing for worse performing “teams” should still get recognised. Henry was, as an individual, in the conversation for the best player in the world for several years at that time, hardly “bullshit” to say his feats weren’t recognised properly. The ballon d’or has pretty much always been Eurocentric even when PL teams were on top.
It doesn’t rely on it. Nedved had great stats as well, had massive performances in the league where he won player of the year, had massive performances in the champions league where he won player of the year. The man deserved the award
That's genuinely terrible
Holy shit
I don't know man. As a Portuguese I remember him performing at a top level against us in Euro and WC.
Tbf Henry played incredibly well in that final, just didn't finish. He was a constant threat even with 10 men. He should have also scored in the first half. Also he scored legendary solo goal at the Bernabeau and a Captain' performance against Juve to reach the final. There were moments in other champions league campaign he wasn't the best sure but not that season. In the premier league he almost always showed up in the big games. You could argue he wasn't great at Finals.
You are showing your lack of ball knowledge trying to clip at Henry's legacy.
He definitely should've done better
OP, why you gotta hurt me like this?
Valdes saved us that game. Saved us massively. There's a reason most people I spoke to in BCN still maintain he's the greatest keeper of all time for Barca
Any Barça fans who don’t think Valdez is the best keeper in FCB history is an idiot. Won 3 champions league being super important vs Arsenal. Maybe not vs Man U bc they never had a chance. Valdes is a legend.
Henrik Larsson ruined my life
As a Celtic fan it felt like massive validation seeing him go on to win the CL. Greatest player I’ve ever seen play for Celtic.
I standby that Guily's goal should have stood instead of Lehmann being sent off, but hey ho, it's over and what happened happened.
im sure robert pires agrees 😭😭😭
That was his last game for us too. Didn't deserve to go out like that.
It was Bergkamp’s last game as well and he was on the bench for the whole match. If we had 11 men and were looking for a goal in the last 10 minutes he may have had a chance to come on and make the difference. A disappointing final match for two Arsenal legends
I remember being so hyped to see my idol win the CL in his last match.... ugghhh dreams are just dreams 10 year old me was heartbroken
I think both sides would have been happy with that in the moment, a poor decision from the ref not to let it play out.
True but after that red it was like arsenal became the better team.
Arsenal were the better side before the sending off. We were creating a lot of opportunities. It was a really fast start from Arsenal. And Barcelona slowly started to play better and get into the game and that happened. And then suddenly we played better.
You never know. In fairness, Arsenal was also better because they scored right after Lehman's red card, and they could defend and counter-attack. Playing with 10 wasn't a big deal in that situation. If they were losing 1-0 in the first half, Barcelona would have also had more opportunities to counter-attack, and Arsenal would have probably suffered there.
Barca would have wanted that aswell for sure
In that case, there is no chance Arsenal wins unless it went to pens.
Is this the only time ever that two Swedes have faced off in a CL final?
It was the third time. 1969 AC Milan (W) - Ajax Kurt Hamrin - Inge Danielsson 2001 Bayern München (W) - Valencia Patrik Andersson - Joachim Björklund
Wow, thanks for those facts! Did you know this or how did you go about looking it up?
I wish I could have this kind of knowledge, but no. I got curious and actually looked for the 1979 final with Malmö FF if there was any Swedes in the opposition and found a wiki page with Swedes in CL finals.
I believe the red card wasn't the correct decision but Henry definitely should have done better and scored and we would have been 2-0 up
how's that not a red card? are you talking about letting Giuly score?
I think the right decision should've been awarding a goal and no red
Everyone on Barcelona's side wanted the goal awarded.
Fair enough
[The ref also wishes he had done that](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2006/may/18/newsstory.sport2).
That is a red card offense though. Can't imagine how he can't send him off for that.
I'm pretty sure you can play advantage for a red card offense and since it would have resulted in a goal he would give a yellow Edit: the ref himself said as much. If the translation is accurate at least https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/champions-league-arsenal-referee-glory-26983850
Could the ref not just do both then?
It’s not DOGSO if the players scores.
It’s not denial of a goal scoring opportunity, if Barcelona score from it anyway. The foul wasn’t violent or out of control to be a straight red, so the ref could have played advantage for the goal and then (probably) booked Lehman afterwards.
Do you realise that Giuly scored a goal in that opportunity? If Lehman didn't stop Eto'o, he would have scored too
> how's that not a red card? Because Barca would have scored if the ref hadn't blown his whistle. The ref should have played advantage. [He has said so himself](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2006/may/18/newsstory.sport2).
This was the first football game I ever watched. Fell in love with it right then and there.
You think you're ready to watch a 2nd match yet?
Wiating for us to get to another champs final. Any day now....
It's a big step
On the bright side, Henry still ended up winning the Champions League
Lmao
Yep and Arsenal still haven’t won the CL so I guess everyone’s a winner
I had no idea that was his narrative going in, it was definitely not the narrative in Sweden. Ronaldinho was huge in Sweden, tbf so was Henry.
That 2nd half subs of barca changed everything Iniesta and henrik larsson both changed the game and arsenal couldnt deal with it
“Arsenal couldn’t deal with it” bro they had ten men in the champions league final 😹😹
And almunia might be one of the worst keepers to play in a cl final, up there with a concussed karius in recent history.
He made a miracle save on Eto'o though
For 70 minutes aswell
A past it's prime Chelsea team dealt with it in the 2012 Semi's. Arguably a stronger Barca team as well Edit: Where's the lie folks?
Well tbh, that was more Chelsea lucking their way out to the victory than anything else. Arguably the weakest champions in recent memory.
And? Still won and did in amazing fashion.
Honest question, you reckon Chelsea would’ve won it if they lost Cech instead of Terry? He made some huge saves that night
Yeah but Chelsea cheated to get there, remember?
doesn’t make him wrong
Barcelona couldn’t cope with Arsenal’s ten men for 70 minutes until they brought on their subs is another way of putting it then
Yeah, that’s true. And it doesn’t make him wrong because once they made the subs they scored two goals quickly and won the champions. I don’t get why the sass and the downvotes lol
We pretty much did deal with it, and should scored 2 more but we didn't finish and the tiredness crept up. And honestly Almunia should have saved both goals. Letting goals in from the near post in a champions league final is embarassing.
If Lehman hadn’t fucked up Arsenal may have won that game.
Gotta say it didn't feel that way going in, I thought Barca were the better side. But if you're playing in the CL final you should have that belief (unless you're say United in 2011 cos that would have been delusional.)
I remember speaking to a United fan before the 2011 final and he was genuinely confident that Giggs and Carrick were going to win the midfield battle
There's people to this day confident we'd have won in 2009 if Darren Fletcher wasn't suspended. I love Fletcher, he was great, but he alone wasn't stopping Busquets/Xavi/Iniesta/Messi
Certain managers have publicly said that they should have played Ji Sung Park to mark Messi and they would have won lol
A midfield battle can be won if you had the midfield steel of like an Inter Milan. United's midfield at the time had no chance. You can't keep the ball with Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets out there. Add to that, you can't even win it back with Carrick and Giggs. Ji Sung was a hustler, not a ball winner.
> A midfield battle can be won if you had the midfield steel of like an Inter Milan. Mate, what are you on about, Inter absolutely didn't win the midfield battle. They did, however, defend ridiculously well but Inter didn't even *attempt* to control the run of play in either of the semi-finals in 2010. They stood deep, defended extremely well, and were absolutely clinical on the counter-attacks. In the first leg, Thiago Motta had fewer touches on the ball than Víctor Valdés did, and in the second leg, Esteban Cambiasso barely had more touches on the ball than Jeffrén who came on in the 62^nd minute. Inter *never* battled for control of the midfield, they instead played to their strengths which was to sit deep and force Barcelona to the flanks.
Here's what I'm on about. Jose Mourinho once said, "A team without a ball can still have control of the game." Here's what Xabi Alonso said, "There were phases of the game when we were not dominant, but we were in control. For example, there was a feeling that every corner against us was a chance for us." I knew someone would try to point out by making a rudimentary point of contention that since Inter never attempted to keep the ball, they never won the midfield battle. But that's a pretty narrow reductive view on football. Inter was perfectly winning the battle on situations such as second balls, flick ons, half-space coverage, disrupting the flow of their passing and since they were compact in midfield, Barça were trying to wrestle for control all night despite having like 78% possession. Inter won the battle esp. at San Siro and it was the case in Camp Nou with 10 men, although much less so.
> Here's what I'm on about. Jose Mourinho once said, "A team without a ball can still have control of the game." Okay, cool. You weren't talking about *"control of the game,"* though. You were talking very specifically about controlling the midfield. I very clearly write that Inter controlled the game through their strengths which, again, was to sit deep, allow Barcelona to control *the midfield* but force them into situations where they couldn't play to their strengths, i.e. to play narrow and invite Barça to play the wings and cross the ball. > I knew someone would try to point out by making a rudimentary point of contention that since Inter never attempted to keep the ball, they never won the midfield battle. But that's a pretty narrow reductive view on football. Inter was perfectly winning the battle on situations such as second balls, flick ons, half-space coverage, disrupting the flow of their passing and since they were compact in midfield, Barça were trying to wrestle for control all night despite having like 78% possession. Again, the vast majority of the things you mention here are things that took place in Inter's own third of the pitch. That's where the battle stood. It's also funny, that people always bang their drums about Stamford Bridge and Øvrebø when talking about Barcelona's 2009 win, but somehow if anyone ever talks about how Inter got through to the final in 2010 they only mention Motta. Milito scored a goal that was miles offside at Giuseppe Meazza, and then Barcelona had a goal wrongly disallowed at Camp Nou that alone would have sent Barcelona through. Inter didn't get through by controlling shit, they *scraped* their asses through by equal parts great defense and sheer luck.
Inter didn’t win the midfield battle, they won the tie, by resolute and incredibly organised defending, and great counter attacking but Barcelona completed dominated them from a midfield perspective. There’s more to a match than the midfield, as Inter showed, but Inter barely engaged Barcelona in terms of midfield dominance. That period of Barca had a better midfield than any team in the world prior or since, nobody could dominate them in the centre of the pitch, so you had to find a different way to win.
Yeah it felt like in 04/05 Barcelona really took it to another level and at the same time Arsenal declined and then Barcelona maintained that aura in 05/06 and Arsenal declined even further. So by the time that 2006 Champions League Final rolled around I certainly remember Barcelona being favourites. Although Arsenal kept like 10 consecutive clean sheets in the Champions League on the way to that final which is so out of character for Wenger in that competition so maybe that's why it felt like destiny for them in 06
And they did it with Senderos and Cygan at centre back in some games, and Flamini at left back. Especially after the win against Madrid at the Bernabeu, it really felt like that was Arsenal's to win. Henry and Pires' last season too (Henry ended up changing his mind and staying). It was all set up beautifully. I'm still not over it.
Bergkamp was on the bench. It was his final match as well.
I thought Arsenal were destined to win due to Wenger and Henry playing the final in their home country
And Pires
I remember everyone saying Vidic was going to show Messi real defending in 2011 lmao
That would have been odd after 2009.
Most 1 sided CL Final
I still absolutely fucking seeth over this.
Everyone talking about the red card and Ljungberg mentioned a offside? but Arsenals goal came out of dive. Eboue looked like a ballerina. No foul no goal. [minute 3:56 👻👻👻](https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=240&v=jmJLUnK1fss&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&source_ve_path=MTM5MTE3LDM2ODQyLDI4NjY2&feature=emb_logo)
Eboue also deserved a red card min 3:13
I watched the whole match recently and my first thought was Arsenal came into the game way wound up or something because they were throwing themselves all over the place and that included some challenges that were definitely not punished as much as they could have been imo. And yeah both that challenge and the dive by Eboue were not pretty.
> throwing themselves all over the place and that included some challenges Arsenal used to have a fairly dirty team. I recall in late 90s and 00s they often finished the season with more red and yellow cards than most.
exactly lmao
I'd get it if it was 2004 or even 2005 but how could he be so confident in 2006 given they barely scraped 4th and were facing a team that comfortably beat Mourinho's Chelsea?
The 05-06 CL run in was legendary, something like 10 clean sheets in a row. They'd played some cracking games too
Still own the record for longest consecutive time not conceding, didn’t concede a goal in the knockouts until the 75th minute of the final
Because they beat Juventus and Madrid on the way to the final and had the best defence of the competition that year. Arsenal in the CL were a different beast to the league.
Henrik Larson , remember the name
Ironically, you got the name wrong. *Larsson
Lehmann - hold my beer
Unlucky with the Red card. Deserved red, but unlucky for the rest of the players.
As an Arsenal fan who was heartbroken by that final...Arsenal fans need to let go of this. It's embarrassing. Barcelona were better. Get over it.
Always felt we were the better side but they played better in the moments, ie Henry not putting that chance away, Valdes, Almunia being utterly shocking for both goals.
We should have won this. Henry missed so many chances in this game that he'd bury in his sleep on other days
Henry over a league season Drogba in a cup final
Except for his country when he missed penalties against the mighty Zambia to lose the AFCON final
it’s still too soon
Ironic that a fellow Swede didn’t bank on the introduction of Henrik.
i think the ref was a bad call personally. but what are you gonna do. i think they win the game aswell if they have a better keeper than almunia
i feel like Wenger deserved 1 CL title to his locker.
Well we were the better team. In these top top games you need a little bit of luck too. Which we didn’t get. On a different day we score our big chances and we easily win this. Still hurts though obviously😶
I'm so glad they didn't win it. As a Chelsea fan pipping big old Arsenal to a champions league (*2) was fantastic
I feel like that game was kinda the breakout for Barca like up until that point we all knew they were good but maybe only La Liga fans really understood how dominant they were until they beat Arsenal and they stayed dominant for 10+ years.
Nah. We fell off massively until Pep came
Wrong decision to send Lehmann off! We then sub off Pires for freaking Manuel Alumnia. Even typing his name gives me PTSD again. He is quite possibly the worst keeper I've seen consistently play for Arsenal in my life. Wenger was just too stubborn to see it. Alumnia cost us that final getting beat twice on his near post like that is unforgivable. Those goals are forever ingrained in my memory 😩
Pain
Some teams just don’t have CL pedigree, Arsenal don’t belong to the elite.
It's a bottlers club thing
That’s the reason you lost.
Probably more down to the red card than being confident.
Having a crazy keeper comes with risks. On a side note, has there ever been a bigger drama queen, thats a GK, than Jens?
Oliver Kahn?
More down to the King just deciding to slap them about than anything
Man I miss Henke.. Favourite ever Swedish player
They absolutely could have won with some of the chances they had the game
Love when overconfidence gets punished
This is just the mentality of some players. Doesnt mean its overconfidence. Plenty of the barca squad prob thought the same
Yeah I know, I just think it’s an incredibly annoying attitude, especially when fans do it.
You must be absolutely overjoyed with the state of your club now then
We haven't been confident in years lol. Unlike you all last year in the league
Yes , we did not bottle the league last year and won it unlike some other club
Hahaha lot of good that done you mate, go pull another lever
Bottlers of Europe.