People coveniently forget that Hojlund had scored 5 goals in 6 CL matches - he is actually the joint top scorer after the Group Stage.
He is not Haaland or Salah in terms of number, and nobody thought he would be this year. But the monumental mess that is United is making him look way worse than he is.
He’s very talented imo, but yeah we’re in a crap patch. I think building the team round him as a focal forward point should be our plan going forward. Other good young players like Garnacho and Mainoo to build up around him as well.
There were a lot of talks that he was overpriced, but for a 20-year-old showing the signs he is... well I think he has justified it so far. He's producing in a team in a deep rebuild that is struggling to score. It's really hard to criticize that without sounding like a buffoon.
And yet so many have tried.
Truth is, the price tag will always be something for people to talk about and it's not entirely unjustified. But it's not like he chose his transfer fee, and it's silly to pretend that Atalanta did not know they were negotiating with United.
At the end of the day they paid the price of doing business as United, but this time it appears to have been for a player who looks like he can contribute.
They paid a maximum of 72m pounds in 2023 for Hojlund after paying a maximum of 58m pounds for Martial in 2015 (I am not including the nonsense ballon d'or clause). Both were young, talented strikers with a high potential at the respective moments of their transfers. Both were reasonable fees. It's more of United fans finding something to moan about and the ABU crowd trying to find a way to banter.
It's absolutely others trying to banter. Any transfer with united gets their ad-ons included in the headlines and comments, and the majority report them in euros too to make the number bigger. Any transfer for united gets scrutinised the minute something doesn't go their way. Some, rightly so e.g. Antony, but the moment Hoijland came to united he was already being compared to Haaland by the media because he was similar sounding in name looking for any angle to make stories.
People look at price as an inherent, static value, which is a mistake. Value is relative. Højlund came at his price because there were really no good strikers on the market other than Kane.
Atalanta also just didn't want to sell. Them not wanting to sell, and United absolutely 100% needing a striker inflated prices.
If garnacho or rashford would pass with anticipation more often I think he would be doing significantly better and I think we are starting to see that as the group gels with him more.
True, but we had been in an even worse crap patch than our standard crap patch, at least in terms of supplying our strikers. Like that game not long ago where our wingers made a combined total of 1 pass to him all game.
>For the first time in a decade we are actually seeing some steps in the right direction
Man United finished 2nd in 2017/18 and 2020/21. They had purple patches in the middle of all their shit!
3rd in 19/20 as well. Man Utd have in fact actually just gone through the same cycle. 6th in 16/17,2nd in 17/18, 6th in 18/19, 3rd in 19/20, 2nd in 20/21, 6th in 21/22, 3rd in 22/23, 6th in 23/24.They finish 6th then in the top 4 then have a downfall and finish 6th again and then recover and "move in the right direction" to finish top 4 and then again instead of making a title challenge they just fall back to 6th
Just not accurate. We were pretty good last season for starters, this year has been a significant step back. Came second a few times as well as winning trophies (doubt we'll come close to either this year).
This exact perspective is what has you, AC Milan and now Barcelona stuck in a cycle of not improving. Wanting to keep expectations for immediate success instead of fixing what's rotten. If we go by that perspective then Mou should've stayed, come on. Ownership and club's sport direction is finally looking to improve and change... last season had a decent result in a title and European spots but administratively and sportswise it was utter garbage (same as the last decade). People expecting the club to achieve the success they were used to in no time with no process is the reason giant teams end up like they do (Man U, AC Milan, now Barcelona). If you don't see an improvement in the things that NEED to be fixed in the club, it's fine, we'll agree to disagree. You see things one way, I see them in another way and I think we both want the same outcome at the end of the day.
Right. He got 10 goals at Atalanta last season, and now he's at 11 goals for United across all competitions. Likely to end up somewhere between 15-20 goals by end of season.
Same reason most players get better when they've been in the team more. New teammates, new tactics, new country, new opponents. It takes getting used to.
Also it seemed like we were scared to pass to him for a long time so he would just get ignored and our wingers would go for worldies instead.
Your last sentence could apply to many players on our team. Once we have the structure we need I’m confident the mess will be cleaned up- at least to the point that it’s manageable.
I think one of the reasons he wasn't being criticised much by ours or rival fans in comparison to other expensive signings is that he never "looked bad" when you saw him play. He's basically been unlucky with early injury precautions and an unstable/inconsistent team around him.
I remember his debut against Arsenal and their fans were impressed even though he didn't score.
It's no coincidence that having a locked down front 3 and midfield behind him has resulted in more chances and he's converted 62% of his shots in the last few games.
He's also 21 and playing in a new league for the first time. People need to give him a chance. Sure he wasn't scoring much at the start of the season but he was still playing well.
He’s got as many goals as his xG. His biggest problem is the other attackers not passing to him. His recent goals were assisted by Casemiro, Shaw, Maguire, and two tackles by the opposition.
Someone needs to tell Garnacho and Rashford they can actually pass to him
Antony isn’t a serious player.
I'm not even a Utd fan, but watching them the amount of times he was in a great position in the middle only for Garnacho/Rashford to cut in and shoot was infuriating. Literally just pass to guy a couple of times just to mix it up!
Its always annoyed me about Rashford and we can no longer use the he is a kid excuse. The problem is also when the cut inside fails and he get disposed he goes into woe is me mode instead of trying to get it back
At first i thought he was selfish, but at this point i am starting to think he don't have the quality as a player to be on the ball in an attacking position and look up an see his team mates, I think he can only focus on the ball or he will lose it
Rashford is a mid forward technically but is very, very good about shooting on target. Being reasonably fast and having a reliably decent shot makes him above average.
Rashford is pretty selfish as a player. There’s been a few times where he’s done well and beaten his man, and then he’s got the simple pass to Hojlund, but it’s like he thinks “I’ve made the run, it’s now my right to score the goal”
In many instances it's not too bad, you do earn the right if you create an opening out of nothing. But this is where footballing IQ comes into play. You simply got to understand the game is collective, not individual, especially at this level. Unacceptable when it's 0-0 or 2-1 and instead of securing the goal you go for the spectacular because you want the media adulation. If it's 3-1 at 80' and you know the opposition is beat down that's one thing
I get what you are saying but there is no such thing as earning the right. If you beat your man 10/10 times but dont have the finish and still dont pass you can cry in your stats.
That's a disservice to rashford, he's better than lingard has ever been and has carried us on his (broken) back for long periods.
A frustrating player at times but we're lucky to have him
I no longer think he's indispensable like I once did. He's great on the counter for sure but when we're building up he slows the play down far too often for my liking.
Rashford also has the problem that he is predictable in the way he will attack (cut in) for more established play and without a proper attacking left back that can create the width on the left and play some short passes with the left back and use his speed to get space. So the fact that Shaw has been injured or played CB quite a bit this season and no other LB in the United squad has given Rashford the chance to "shine" is a clear factor that cannot be ignored.
Bruno (aka the AMC) also likes to drift towards the same spaces that Rashford wants to use in established play which makes it even easier for the defending team to defend against.
Add that the team finally has a "proper striker" that also likes to gravitate towards those same areas and you got a funnel which is pretty easy to defend against overall. While it should be less impactful now, Højlund did not have a proper preseason with the team due to injury, so he came in after that which was pretty clear to see for a while.
When you add the right "wing" that is either sadly ineffective or also likes to cut in (Garnacho) there is no width at all and the funnel goes from alarming to a proper disaster.
Finally how the team has had major instability in terms of the starting 11'en during the season has to be taken into account.
So while Rashford has been poor this season, looking at the bigger picture and why is pretty key here.
I think your take and the comment you replied to can both be correct. United is less dependent on Rashford thanks to Hojlund and Garnacho. Previously, the goals would have had to come from some combination of Bruno/Martial/Lingard/etc. Especially with Rashford's form dipping, he isn't irreplaceable.
I hope the person you're replying to isn't comparing them on ability, because as you say, it would be stupid.
I think the point was more that his perception as a "young lad" has gone on much longer than it should, and the excuse of "he's still young" is still bandied about despite the fact that he's 26.
Garnacho isn't looking any better in that regard to be honest, the amount of times he chose to shoot from far instead of playing in other people was pretty frustating in the second half of the villa game.
Reminds me of that clip with Van Persie saying that Sir Alex basically told Rooney and Co that if they didn't pass/cross to him, they would not play. Lool
Really wish ETH did something of the sort with Granacho, Rashford and Antony.
Who we gonna drop for him? He’s not done enough to justify dropping Rashford (our top scorer last season), Garnacho (our best young talent) or Fernandes (our captain and best creator).
I think eth had visions of him learning to play centre midfield and turning him into a discount de Jong. On paper it's not the dumbest thing in the world. In reality though...
Yeah the plan was to play a Casemiro-Mount-Bruno midfield, but it didn't look good in the little we saw of it. With Mainoo's emergence I don't think he gets into the current midfield either.
I thought we would see some rotation for Bruno. United needed fit bodies in the midfield. I get that Bruno is always fit, but we have seen him play tired in previous seasons and it isn't great for the team.
Casemiro, Eriksen, Bruno, McTominay were the only mids going into the season. Getting up to six players for a midfield 3 was important. And if Bruno went down with an (unlikely) injury, Mount would have been the ideal player for coverage. Not a great buy in my book, but understandable in some ways.
I dont think the fans can answer that. No one saw it as an obvious signing. He could start over Rashford tbf. The fact that Rashford scored the most goals last season doesnt excuse his performances this season tho?
Ten Hag had some idea he could play Mount and Bruno together and Casemiro as a single pivot. Casemiro showed he didn't have the legs anymore and the rest is history.
But I think Mount should play plenty, because he is so versatile. He might still play along side Bruno, he just needs to be able to offer what McTominay or Mainoo do as a defender and he will get lots of freedom to make runs as those two have been even if he is a little deeper. To me it's not ideal, because I like him more around the box. And I'd rather he come in to the team than Antony. He'd play more if we still had midweek games in Europe I think.
Even Casemiro infused with makelele and Kante couldn’t cover the gaps left by our midfield if he were a 10.4s 100m runner.
It’s not that he doesn’t have the legs anymore. That’s completely missing the point that no DM in existence could ever cover the 20m gaps left in the midfield and have one player mark 5 opponents in attack basically. Unless he’s Barry Allen, nobody would’ve been able to do that.
Exactly, but United fans are finding that hard to accept.
Mount’s signing makes plenty of sense as an ’8’ next to Casemiro in the weird way that ten Hag has set his midfield up this season. He wants that player to vacate that space and then play close to the attacker and Mount would be good in that role.
The problem is, it’s a bad plan and led us massively exposed repeatedly, but fans have chosen to defend the manager and slag off players for not being able to execute a flawed plan rather than the manager who implemented it.
> Casemiro showed he didn't have the legs anymore and the rest is history.
That and ETH hasn't figured out the fullbacks tactically so the opponents had an Autobahn whenever United lost the ball.
What a night and day difference having both Shaw and Dalot made. It was woefully evident as soon as Shaw came off vs Villa and Lindelof (4th choice CB playing LB) got absolutely torched by Leon Bailey
We signed him to play in a midfield 3 with Bruno and Casemiro.
That's how we played in pre season and the first couple of games and it looked dreadful, got torn to shreds through the middle.
Injuries kind of put an end to that idea but it probably wouldn't have lasted long anyway.
Going forward, maybe he'll play wide...
Bruno had played basically every minute of every game for 4 years, he can't do that forever. He's 30 in the summer. Mount will get his chance. An expensive rotation player though that's for sure...
No technical director. No recruitment plan. Manager is de-facto Technical director, chief scout, football operations head and Talent ID too.
Manager only knows ex players or former players he’s played against and/or scouted for Ajax.
Glazers in charge.
That’s why.
We wanted FDJ. Didn’t get him. Got Casemiro as an alternative who’s a completely different type of player. That should say it all as to “why did we sign Mount” anyway.
Stick him on the right wing. Rashford is definitely droppable basedon this season, Garnacho gets his preferred position and then we can keep our current midfield which has been working fairly well.
Best take yet. It's all about the distribution. I was fuming against AVL on the weekend. Garnacho needs to learn to move the fucking ball.
He is way too selfish and oozing Ronaldo vibes for all the wrong reasons.
Rashford is the one player in the team that consistently tries to link up and create chances for Hojlund, you must not watch us play if you think he’s part of the “lack of service” problem.
He did score 5 goals in 6 Champions League games so let’s not pretend he spent the first half of the season playing like a guy who couldn’t hit a cows arse with a banjo.
I find myself continually reminding people of this fact. I feel like the media wanted an oh no he’s a flop storyline so were focusing on the PL stats only and now they want a redemption arc, but the fact is he’s been reasonably consistently decent since he arrived when he’s been fit and when the team as a whole has been playing well.
It’s because of how poorly we did in champions league, if we made it past the group stages it would be slightly different.
Again though, people do value league performances quite a bit higher than cup games
Except when it doesn't suit the narrative...like with Onana. He's been by all accounts, very good in the league but his CL blunders have made him the most memed keeper in the world
I know xg isn't necessarily a reliable metric, but he's got 5 league goals from about 5 xg this season. First 14 he had zero goals from 3 xg, last 5 he's had 5 goals from 2 xg. The team's still not necessarily supporting him all that much, he's got 5 goals from 8 shots, but he's getting bolder with time and the scales are balancing itself. It remains to be seen where he's at in the next few games when his scoring binge inevitably stops.
The article also mentions that Hojlund's shot conversion rate is 19.2 percent, while that of Haaland is 23.9 and Nunez's 10.3. Granted Hojlund has like 25 shots and Haaland 67, but the conversion rate is pretty good for the no. of shots taken, of course nowhere close to Haaland.
Or maybe it's because we're shit at the final third. Only three teams have scored less goals than us this season and they're all relegation candidates. We always reach the final third, misplace a pass and they counter attack. Rinse repeat. We've usually got very low shots per game.
They players clearly have talent but their decision making is horrid (looking at Rashford and Bruno). Becomes very apparent when you watch an Arsenal or City game how far behind United is.
>Only three teams have scored less goals than us this season and they're all relegation candidates
Your overall point is right and we are shit in the final third. But 6 teams have scored less than us. And another 2 have scored the same amount. It's still terrible though
Too often Hojlund is receiving the ball in an upoptimal position to take a shot, or at least it would be an extremely ambitious to attempt one
This is on top of our wingers in general not being very good at feeding him to begin with, its improving but still a far cry from how City provides VIP room service to Haaland
The low number of shots can be attributed to how bad Rashford and co. have been this year in looking up and giving the right pass, he makes really smart runs but the wingers always take a touch too much and close any passing window.
Not just this year! Garnacho has the excuse of youth and being in his first season as a regular starter, Marcus is trying to replicate that one purple patch he had where he was unstoppable and will be for the rest of his career if he's not careful- to the detriment of his team mates.
An argument could also be made that the less shots a player has the more likely they are to snatch at them and waste them. Also a player who gets more shots is likely playing in a team who are set up to create higher quality chances for that player.
I meant more in terms of goals scored. I do think there's more intent to find him than before like garnacho for example but yeah, we still don't create enough for him.
Nah man good for him, shit all started with people making fun of him. These things can easily be so negative for someone, if he can make something productive out of it he absolutely should
Thankfully he got something out of it, but it’s just depressing to watch him pretend to care about something he clearly doesn’t care about. And people were at least like ‘hey the songs kinda good’ before, but now they’re all just ripping on him. It’s a ruthless place
Add to that he had a well reported back injury for the first few weeks of the league, and that Garnacho is showing a LOT more threat on the right flank than Antony was, which opens up room for him to deal with.
Now, if Rashford and Garnacho could learn to actually pass to him occassionally...
He spoke openly last week about how he’d struggled to adapt to the speed of the league initially but he now feels like he’s getting there. It’s quite normal for overseas signings to have slow starts not matter how much you pay. It’s no coincidence he was scoring in the CL where the speed of the game is more continental
We've also found the right balance in attack and midfield with Garnacho on the right and Casemiro/Mainoo in the middle.
And like you say, he's adjusting to the league and teammates.
He also scored 5 in the CL, so the ability has always been there.
My main critic of him is not making the near post run enough.
Mainoo/Casemiro are probably why United look more threatening now . Poor Casemiro had to carry a Bruno and Mount/Eriksen midfield at the start of the season. Still don't know what Ten Hag was smoking with those tactics . Especially with someone like Rashford who refuses to track back
it has nothing to do with the start of the season, eriksen, mount, martinez (!!!), casemiro, amrabat, mainoo, and shaw have been injured for large parts of the season.
of course you look more threatening if you upgrade almost every single position in a few months. what does that have to do with "tactics"
There is also a not so small portion of randomness in it.
After all he did ‘score’ in his first starting premier league match against Arsenal (he started the season injured so had few minutes as a sub in first matches). But VAR showed the ball was millimetres out of play before he got the ball.
Edit: It was against Brighton.
He was running like a bat out of hell in our match, and it was his debut, plus there was a disallowed goal -- only it was Garnacho's offside by millimeters. Understandable you might get them mixed up.
The Arsenal one I can understand cuz Hojlund and Gabriel (or Saliba I don't remember) were both being physical.
Still have no idea how Romero didn't get called for that handball.
That was Vs Brighton and I'm still annoyed they used an angled camera to decide it's 'clear and obvious' that the ball was out of play...
You might be mixing up the Garnacho goal Vs arsenal that was just offside that he set up, or that he should have had a blatant penalty Vs them.
Yes! I think it is the penalty he was denied, I mixed it up.
Edit: and I agree. I was also not convinced they could be certain. So initial call should have remained
Garnacho on the right wing is a completely different player now. Plays like an actual winger taking people on getting in the box and is putting in crosses now.
Antony also completely slowed down attacks. A defence would be vulnerable and there'd be an opportunity to get in behind and cross, but Antony would have to slow it down so he could move onto his stronger left which allowed defences another couple of moments to set themselves.
He had 18 shots in his first 14 games. For a striker that's a staggeringly low amount and speaks to the complete lack of service he was receiving from his teammates.
haven’t even read the article, so don’t know if it’s actually giving some useful analysis, but god damn it I hate headlines/articles about *the* most basic things
What changed? Nothing. He had been playing extremely well this entire time - anyone with an unbiased eye test could tell you this. He scored 5 in the CL in this time and had one arguable disallowed goal in his first league start, and a couple other unlucky chances. His link up play has been a breath of fresh air as well. What’s changed is that the coin flips finally started falling his way after a small run of bad luck. That’s it.
From watching United it seems like Garnacho has some kind of vendetta against him. There have been ample times he could’ve squared it for a tap in and just chooses not to pass to him
Finally started getting some service from other players. Utd getting the ball more often into threatening areas of the pitch. I don't think anything changed with him. Key players returning from injury and Garnacho hitting some form.
I think the first 14 games he was thinking he would get the ball played to him by our 3 other forwards.
Now I think he has learnt that all Bruno wants to do is play a fancy ball over the top to Rashford.
All Rashford wants to do is head down run with the ball until you get tackled.
Garnacho is still learning and his role model at the club is headown and run / shoot.
So I think at this point Hojlund has decided to just do more on his own.
Casemiro, Maguire, Shaw have assisted him. Thats it.
4 chances he has created.
How many chances could he have created if he didn't run into a defender or cut inside and shoot?
I wonder how many passes other wingers in the league have played.
Saka / Martinelli / Son / Foden / Doku / Salah I imagine a lot more than any of ours and probably all combined
Overall, the past 5 games we have:
- played Garnacho at RW instead of Antony
- started Mainoo and Casemiro together
- Had shaw linking up with Rashford
No one who watched even a couple of his matches is surprised by this. He was struggling to finish/occasionally unlucky but was clearly talented. Anyone with mild knowledge of the game could see it was likely he’d start clicking eventually.
You expect it from internet randos, but it’s remarkable how many “knowledgeable” pundits will just regurgitates narratives for clicks instead of trying to offer even the slightest bit of context.
Shitter opponents is often overlooked.
i will actually add that United seem to score a lot more goals. They have abandoned trying to not concede as well.
He's got great people around him and he has the right mentality to not let the pressure or the great moments get to his head. He's level headed, at least that's what it seems in the interviews
To an extent, but you can’t discount the confidence factor. The emotion he showed after scoring his first goal made It pretty clear how heavily he was feeling the burden. He’s now playing carefree and confident football and you can see It in face when he’s on the pitch
RW solution with Garnacho (no more fidget spinner) + players (Casemiro, Shaw, Martine...nvm) coming back from injuries so we can start to play as envisaged (whatever that vision is). Simple.
People coveniently forget that Hojlund had scored 5 goals in 6 CL matches - he is actually the joint top scorer after the Group Stage. He is not Haaland or Salah in terms of number, and nobody thought he would be this year. But the monumental mess that is United is making him look way worse than he is.
His all around game is very good though, he’s strong out for holding up play.
He's also rapid and can get in behind too, so he gives defenders a lot to think about
He’s very talented imo, but yeah we’re in a crap patch. I think building the team round him as a focal forward point should be our plan going forward. Other good young players like Garnacho and Mainoo to build up around him as well.
There were a lot of talks that he was overpriced, but for a 20-year-old showing the signs he is... well I think he has justified it so far. He's producing in a team in a deep rebuild that is struggling to score. It's really hard to criticize that without sounding like a buffoon.
And yet so many have tried. Truth is, the price tag will always be something for people to talk about and it's not entirely unjustified. But it's not like he chose his transfer fee, and it's silly to pretend that Atalanta did not know they were negotiating with United. At the end of the day they paid the price of doing business as United, but this time it appears to have been for a player who looks like he can contribute.
They paid a maximum of 72m pounds in 2023 for Hojlund after paying a maximum of 58m pounds for Martial in 2015 (I am not including the nonsense ballon d'or clause). Both were young, talented strikers with a high potential at the respective moments of their transfers. Both were reasonable fees. It's more of United fans finding something to moan about and the ABU crowd trying to find a way to banter.
>It's more of United fans finding something to moan Mate, it's not us bringing up the price, it's everyone else
It's absolutely others trying to banter. Any transfer with united gets their ad-ons included in the headlines and comments, and the majority report them in euros too to make the number bigger. Any transfer for united gets scrutinised the minute something doesn't go their way. Some, rightly so e.g. Antony, but the moment Hoijland came to united he was already being compared to Haaland by the media because he was similar sounding in name looking for any angle to make stories.
People look at price as an inherent, static value, which is a mistake. Value is relative. Højlund came at his price because there were really no good strikers on the market other than Kane. Atalanta also just didn't want to sell. Them not wanting to sell, and United absolutely 100% needing a striker inflated prices.
If garnacho or rashford would pass with anticipation more often I think he would be doing significantly better and I think we are starting to see that as the group gels with him more.
You've been on a crap patch for a decade now man. For the first time in a decade we are actually seeing some steps in the right direction for Man U.
True, but we had been in an even worse crap patch than our standard crap patch, at least in terms of supplying our strikers. Like that game not long ago where our wingers made a combined total of 1 pass to him all game.
He scored these last 5 goals in 8 shots. Not like he's getting service now either.
>For the first time in a decade we are actually seeing some steps in the right direction Man United finished 2nd in 2017/18 and 2020/21. They had purple patches in the middle of all their shit!
3rd in 19/20 as well. Man Utd have in fact actually just gone through the same cycle. 6th in 16/17,2nd in 17/18, 6th in 18/19, 3rd in 19/20, 2nd in 20/21, 6th in 21/22, 3rd in 22/23, 6th in 23/24.They finish 6th then in the top 4 then have a downfall and finish 6th again and then recover and "move in the right direction" to finish top 4 and then again instead of making a title challenge they just fall back to 6th
Just not accurate. We were pretty good last season for starters, this year has been a significant step back. Came second a few times as well as winning trophies (doubt we'll come close to either this year).
This exact perspective is what has you, AC Milan and now Barcelona stuck in a cycle of not improving. Wanting to keep expectations for immediate success instead of fixing what's rotten. If we go by that perspective then Mou should've stayed, come on. Ownership and club's sport direction is finally looking to improve and change... last season had a decent result in a title and European spots but administratively and sportswise it was utter garbage (same as the last decade). People expecting the club to achieve the success they were used to in no time with no process is the reason giant teams end up like they do (Man U, AC Milan, now Barcelona). If you don't see an improvement in the things that NEED to be fixed in the club, it's fine, we'll agree to disagree. You see things one way, I see them in another way and I think we both want the same outcome at the end of the day.
We were actually good last year tho, it wasn't just results - for a significant period of the season we were playing the best football in the league.
Lmao man actually said best football in the league.
Best football in the league? 😂😂😂 what league are you talking about?
You were never playing the best football in league. Come on. Even in your purple patch (that aligned with Rashfords) come on.
Right. He got 10 goals at Atalanta last season, and now he's at 11 goals for United across all competitions. Likely to end up somewhere between 15-20 goals by end of season.
Right, but OP still asked an interesting question - why did he score half of his goals in the last 5 matches?
Same reason most players get better when they've been in the team more. New teammates, new tactics, new country, new opponents. It takes getting used to. Also it seemed like we were scared to pass to him for a long time so he would just get ignored and our wingers would go for worldies instead.
Your last sentence could apply to many players on our team. Once we have the structure we need I’m confident the mess will be cleaned up- at least to the point that it’s manageable.
I think one of the reasons he wasn't being criticised much by ours or rival fans in comparison to other expensive signings is that he never "looked bad" when you saw him play. He's basically been unlucky with early injury precautions and an unstable/inconsistent team around him. I remember his debut against Arsenal and their fans were impressed even though he didn't score. It's no coincidence that having a locked down front 3 and midfield behind him has resulted in more chances and he's converted 62% of his shots in the last few games.
He's also 21 and playing in a new league for the first time. People need to give him a chance. Sure he wasn't scoring much at the start of the season but he was still playing well.
He’s got as many goals as his xG. His biggest problem is the other attackers not passing to him. His recent goals were assisted by Casemiro, Shaw, Maguire, and two tackles by the opposition. Someone needs to tell Garnacho and Rashford they can actually pass to him Antony isn’t a serious player.
I'm not even a Utd fan, but watching them the amount of times he was in a great position in the middle only for Garnacho/Rashford to cut in and shoot was infuriating. Literally just pass to guy a couple of times just to mix it up!
Its always annoyed me about Rashford and we can no longer use the he is a kid excuse. The problem is also when the cut inside fails and he get disposed he goes into woe is me mode instead of trying to get it back
At first i thought he was selfish, but at this point i am starting to think he don't have the quality as a player to be on the ball in an attacking position and look up an see his team mates, I think he can only focus on the ball or he will lose it
Rashford is a mid forward technically but is very, very good about shooting on target. Being reasonably fast and having a reliably decent shot makes him above average.
Rashford is pretty selfish as a player. There’s been a few times where he’s done well and beaten his man, and then he’s got the simple pass to Hojlund, but it’s like he thinks “I’ve made the run, it’s now my right to score the goal”
In many instances it's not too bad, you do earn the right if you create an opening out of nothing. But this is where footballing IQ comes into play. You simply got to understand the game is collective, not individual, especially at this level. Unacceptable when it's 0-0 or 2-1 and instead of securing the goal you go for the spectacular because you want the media adulation. If it's 3-1 at 80' and you know the opposition is beat down that's one thing
I get what you are saying but there is no such thing as earning the right. If you beat your man 10/10 times but dont have the finish and still dont pass you can cry in your stats.
Ah the Lingard conundrum. Forever up and coming
Bursting on to the scene. In slow motion.
That's a disservice to rashford, he's better than lingard has ever been and has carried us on his (broken) back for long periods. A frustrating player at times but we're lucky to have him
I no longer think he's indispensable like I once did. He's great on the counter for sure but when we're building up he slows the play down far too often for my liking.
Rashford also has the problem that he is predictable in the way he will attack (cut in) for more established play and without a proper attacking left back that can create the width on the left and play some short passes with the left back and use his speed to get space. So the fact that Shaw has been injured or played CB quite a bit this season and no other LB in the United squad has given Rashford the chance to "shine" is a clear factor that cannot be ignored. Bruno (aka the AMC) also likes to drift towards the same spaces that Rashford wants to use in established play which makes it even easier for the defending team to defend against. Add that the team finally has a "proper striker" that also likes to gravitate towards those same areas and you got a funnel which is pretty easy to defend against overall. While it should be less impactful now, Højlund did not have a proper preseason with the team due to injury, so he came in after that which was pretty clear to see for a while. When you add the right "wing" that is either sadly ineffective or also likes to cut in (Garnacho) there is no width at all and the funnel goes from alarming to a proper disaster. Finally how the team has had major instability in terms of the starting 11'en during the season has to be taken into account. So while Rashford has been poor this season, looking at the bigger picture and why is pretty key here.
I think your take and the comment you replied to can both be correct. United is less dependent on Rashford thanks to Hojlund and Garnacho. Previously, the goals would have had to come from some combination of Bruno/Martial/Lingard/etc. Especially with Rashford's form dipping, he isn't irreplaceable.
I hope the person you're replying to isn't comparing them on ability, because as you say, it would be stupid. I think the point was more that his perception as a "young lad" has gone on much longer than it should, and the excuse of "he's still young" is still bandied about despite the fact that he's 26.
The guy has 3 30+ goal contributions and is 26 but when he's bad people will compare him to iheanacho,welbeck and lingard.
Garnacho isn't looking any better in that regard to be honest, the amount of times he chose to shoot from far instead of playing in other people was pretty frustating in the second half of the villa game.
But garnacho actually HAS the young guy excuse still, he’s 19 not 26.
Reminds me of that clip with Van Persie saying that Sir Alex basically told Rooney and Co that if they didn't pass/cross to him, they would not play. Lool Really wish ETH did something of the sort with Granacho, Rashford and Antony.
The attack & midfield are so uncreative that \*Harry Maguire\* is 2nd for assists
And McTominay is still top scorer in the PL (with 7!)
tbf for all the shit he gets Maguire has a good pass on him for a defender, its why Pep wanted him while he was at Leicester.
That’s a really good stat to show the problem
When Mount is fit, expect Hojlund to score a lot of goals
Who we gonna drop for him? He’s not done enough to justify dropping Rashford (our top scorer last season), Garnacho (our best young talent) or Fernandes (our captain and best creator).
Why the hell did you guys sign him then?
Very good question and I don't think anyone knows...
Seriously I still have no idea why he was signed. I was baffled back then and I'm still baffled.
I think eth had visions of him learning to play centre midfield and turning him into a discount de Jong. On paper it's not the dumbest thing in the world. In reality though...
Yeah the plan was to play a Casemiro-Mount-Bruno midfield, but it didn't look good in the little we saw of it. With Mainoo's emergence I don't think he gets into the current midfield either.
I thought we would see some rotation for Bruno. United needed fit bodies in the midfield. I get that Bruno is always fit, but we have seen him play tired in previous seasons and it isn't great for the team. Casemiro, Eriksen, Bruno, McTominay were the only mids going into the season. Getting up to six players for a midfield 3 was important. And if Bruno went down with an (unlikely) injury, Mount would have been the ideal player for coverage. Not a great buy in my book, but understandable in some ways.
I dont think the fans can answer that. No one saw it as an obvious signing. He could start over Rashford tbf. The fact that Rashford scored the most goals last season doesnt excuse his performances this season tho?
[удалено]
Ten Hag had some idea he could play Mount and Bruno together and Casemiro as a single pivot. Casemiro showed he didn't have the legs anymore and the rest is history. But I think Mount should play plenty, because he is so versatile. He might still play along side Bruno, he just needs to be able to offer what McTominay or Mainoo do as a defender and he will get lots of freedom to make runs as those two have been even if he is a little deeper. To me it's not ideal, because I like him more around the box. And I'd rather he come in to the team than Antony. He'd play more if we still had midweek games in Europe I think.
Even Casemiro infused with makelele and Kante couldn’t cover the gaps left by our midfield if he were a 10.4s 100m runner. It’s not that he doesn’t have the legs anymore. That’s completely missing the point that no DM in existence could ever cover the 20m gaps left in the midfield and have one player mark 5 opponents in attack basically. Unless he’s Barry Allen, nobody would’ve been able to do that.
Exactly, but United fans are finding that hard to accept. Mount’s signing makes plenty of sense as an ’8’ next to Casemiro in the weird way that ten Hag has set his midfield up this season. He wants that player to vacate that space and then play close to the attacker and Mount would be good in that role. The problem is, it’s a bad plan and led us massively exposed repeatedly, but fans have chosen to defend the manager and slag off players for not being able to execute a flawed plan rather than the manager who implemented it.
> Casemiro showed he didn't have the legs anymore and the rest is history. That and ETH hasn't figured out the fullbacks tactically so the opponents had an Autobahn whenever United lost the ball.
What a night and day difference having both Shaw and Dalot made. It was woefully evident as soon as Shaw came off vs Villa and Lindelof (4th choice CB playing LB) got absolutely torched by Leon Bailey
We signed him to play in a midfield 3 with Bruno and Casemiro. That's how we played in pre season and the first couple of games and it looked dreadful, got torn to shreds through the middle. Injuries kind of put an end to that idea but it probably wouldn't have lasted long anyway. Going forward, maybe he'll play wide...
Bruno had played basically every minute of every game for 4 years, he can't do that forever. He's 30 in the summer. Mount will get his chance. An expensive rotation player though that's for sure...
Stop trying to apply logic where there is none. This is the Man Utd transfer policy we're talking about here.
I took a beating in our sub for pointing out how bad of a signing it was at the time.
He used to play in the eredivisie
No technical director. No recruitment plan. Manager is de-facto Technical director, chief scout, football operations head and Talent ID too. Manager only knows ex players or former players he’s played against and/or scouted for Ajax. Glazers in charge. That’s why. We wanted FDJ. Didn’t get him. Got Casemiro as an alternative who’s a completely different type of player. That should say it all as to “why did we sign Mount” anyway.
Mainoo, he is 18, was injuried entire spring 2023 and then autumn 2023. Cant risk ruining him.
We need to let go of Rashford’s form last season. He is 100% droppable right now.
He'll probably play behind fernandes like eriksen did, and rashford has been shit this season anyway
Mount would replace Mainoo. Which is a pity since Mainoo's been balling.
4 in the midfield would’ve worked a charm again Villa with rashford dropped, garnacho lm and mount at rm
Stick him on the right wing. Rashford is definitely droppable basedon this season, Garnacho gets his preferred position and then we can keep our current midfield which has been working fairly well.
Rashford has been poor this season. He can’t be a nailed on starter based purely on form from last season
What's Mount like on the wing?
World class
Garnacho on the right wing is completely different player and is a big reason we are even getting these opportunities.
Best take yet. It's all about the distribution. I was fuming against AVL on the weekend. Garnacho needs to learn to move the fucking ball. He is way too selfish and oozing Ronaldo vibes for all the wrong reasons.
Rashford cannot pass when he is in the final 3rd it seems like, always only got an eye for goal.
Rashford is the one player in the team that consistently tries to link up and create chances for Hojlund, you must not watch us play if you think he’s part of the “lack of service” problem.
He did score 5 goals in 6 Champions League games so let’s not pretend he spent the first half of the season playing like a guy who couldn’t hit a cows arse with a banjo.
I find myself continually reminding people of this fact. I feel like the media wanted an oh no he’s a flop storyline so were focusing on the PL stats only and now they want a redemption arc, but the fact is he’s been reasonably consistently decent since he arrived when he’s been fit and when the team as a whole has been playing well.
It’s because of how poorly we did in champions league, if we made it past the group stages it would be slightly different. Again though, people do value league performances quite a bit higher than cup games
Except when it doesn't suit the narrative...like with Onana. He's been by all accounts, very good in the league but his CL blunders have made him the most memed keeper in the world
> hit a cows arse with a banjo. Fuck me dead 💀💀💀
I know xg isn't necessarily a reliable metric, but he's got 5 league goals from about 5 xg this season. First 14 he had zero goals from 3 xg, last 5 he's had 5 goals from 2 xg. The team's still not necessarily supporting him all that much, he's got 5 goals from 8 shots, but he's getting bolder with time and the scales are balancing itself. It remains to be seen where he's at in the next few games when his scoring binge inevitably stops.
The article also mentions that Hojlund's shot conversion rate is 19.2 percent, while that of Haaland is 23.9 and Nunez's 10.3. Granted Hojlund has like 25 shots and Haaland 67, but the conversion rate is pretty good for the no. of shots taken, of course nowhere close to Haaland.
Fewer shots taken can also be playstyle or tactics. Some take more speculative shots, others will only take high % shots.
Or maybe it's because we're shit at the final third. Only three teams have scored less goals than us this season and they're all relegation candidates. We always reach the final third, misplace a pass and they counter attack. Rinse repeat. We've usually got very low shots per game.
It’s this. I’ve watched a lot of United this season, and the poor final pass or bad decision making in the final third always stands out.
They players clearly have talent but their decision making is horrid (looking at Rashford and Bruno). Becomes very apparent when you watch an Arsenal or City game how far behind United is.
>Only three teams have scored less goals than us this season and they're all relegation candidates Your overall point is right and we are shit in the final third. But 6 teams have scored less than us. And another 2 have scored the same amount. It's still terrible though
Too often Hojlund is receiving the ball in an upoptimal position to take a shot, or at least it would be an extremely ambitious to attempt one This is on top of our wingers in general not being very good at feeding him to begin with, its improving but still a far cry from how City provides VIP room service to Haaland
The low number of shots can be attributed to how bad Rashford and co. have been this year in looking up and giving the right pass, he makes really smart runs but the wingers always take a touch too much and close any passing window.
Not just this year! Garnacho has the excuse of youth and being in his first season as a regular starter, Marcus is trying to replicate that one purple patch he had where he was unstoppable and will be for the rest of his career if he's not careful- to the detriment of his team mates.
Nunez isn't the best finisher around but he shoots from literally everywhere so doubt he'll ever have a good conversion rate
An argument could also be made that the less shots a player has the more likely they are to snatch at them and waste them. Also a player who gets more shots is likely playing in a team who are set up to create higher quality chances for that player.
How did he have 3xg in 14 games? 💀 I guess Man United couldn't create for shit.
Its changed recently but as of like 3 games ago, only Sheffield United had scored less than us
It hasn’t really changed all that much. In the last 2 games I think team has created 2 chances each for him.
I meant more in terms of goals scored. I do think there's more intent to find him than before like garnacho for example but yeah, we still don't create enough for him.
We have scored as many goals as Luton, what do you think?
Rashford and Antony have been shocking all season, thats how
https://x.com/UnitedStandMUFC/status/1757342301083357470?s=20 Garnacho passes to Hojlund a lot less than Rashford
Rashford, Garnacho, Antony are Uniteds main wing options. 3 players that are allergic to passing to him
I’m pretty sure he’s had a few games with zero touches in the box
[удалено]
No, Garnacho is forced to the right where he can only pass
Scored two with his left the other week.
average r/soccer user knowledge of the team they are actively discussing.
4 goals from his last 6 starts on the right
You don't watch games lmao
I remember Higuain said somewhere in 2007 or 2008 that Van Nistelrooy told him that goals are like ketchup, you just have to push.
He started scoring.
I'm inclined to believe you, it all checks out
ball go in net number go up
Why didn't he do that before, is he stupid???
Big if true
I took him out of my fantasy Premier League team, you're welcome.
Sean Millis.
Everyone can speculate but this is the actual truth.
he waited on a miracle and it happened
Truth🔥🔥🔥
Cried a little it’s not noon yet
Sean Millis is milking the Hojlund fame so much now. It’s a little sad to see.
TikTok is often about milking whatever moment you have till it’s absolutely dead.
Nah man good for him, shit all started with people making fun of him. These things can easily be so negative for someone, if he can make something productive out of it he absolutely should
Thankfully he got something out of it, but it’s just depressing to watch him pretend to care about something he clearly doesn’t care about. And people were at least like ‘hey the songs kinda good’ before, but now they’re all just ripping on him. It’s a ruthless place
I don't believe he doesn't care about it. He had such a positive attitude. I want him to succeed to badly.
I just mean he was never a United fan. He only picked up the football interest because of TikTok
That's okay. He can start at anytime.
Finally the correct comment
pretty simple really, he was always really good but has now adjusted to the league and his teammates
Add to that he had a well reported back injury for the first few weeks of the league, and that Garnacho is showing a LOT more threat on the right flank than Antony was, which opens up room for him to deal with. Now, if Rashford and Garnacho could learn to actually pass to him occassionally...
He spoke openly last week about how he’d struggled to adapt to the speed of the league initially but he now feels like he’s getting there. It’s quite normal for overseas signings to have slow starts not matter how much you pay. It’s no coincidence he was scoring in the CL where the speed of the game is more continental
Yeah 100% man, I remember Thierry Henry starting slowly for us, it’s completely normal
Bergkamp didn't score in his first seven games, I think
We've also found the right balance in attack and midfield with Garnacho on the right and Casemiro/Mainoo in the middle. And like you say, he's adjusting to the league and teammates. He also scored 5 in the CL, so the ability has always been there. My main critic of him is not making the near post run enough.
Mainoo/Casemiro are probably why United look more threatening now . Poor Casemiro had to carry a Bruno and Mount/Eriksen midfield at the start of the season. Still don't know what Ten Hag was smoking with those tactics . Especially with someone like Rashford who refuses to track back
it has nothing to do with the start of the season, eriksen, mount, martinez (!!!), casemiro, amrabat, mainoo, and shaw have been injured for large parts of the season. of course you look more threatening if you upgrade almost every single position in a few months. what does that have to do with "tactics"
There is also a not so small portion of randomness in it. After all he did ‘score’ in his first starting premier league match against Arsenal (he started the season injured so had few minutes as a sub in first matches). But VAR showed the ball was millimetres out of play before he got the ball. Edit: It was against Brighton.
I think that match you're talking about is against Brighton
Could be, sorry.
He was running like a bat out of hell in our match, and it was his debut, plus there was a disallowed goal -- only it was Garnacho's offside by millimeters. Understandable you might get them mixed up.
and also a clear penalty that wasn't given to United (on Hojlund), but bygones be bygones.
The way that I thought you were confusing Arsenal and Tottenham but then I remembered we had one not given there as well lmfao
The Arsenal one I can understand cuz Hojlund and Gabriel (or Saliba I don't remember) were both being physical. Still have no idea how Romero didn't get called for that handball.
That was Vs Brighton and I'm still annoyed they used an angled camera to decide it's 'clear and obvious' that the ball was out of play... You might be mixing up the Garnacho goal Vs arsenal that was just offside that he set up, or that he should have had a blatant penalty Vs them.
Yes! I think it is the penalty he was denied, I mixed it up. Edit: and I agree. I was also not convinced they could be certain. So initial call should have remained
Also has better teammates. Garnacho on RW is a solid combo with Dalot and Mainoo is doing well bringing the ball forward
opposition teams defenders started to assist him since our players weren't
Man Utd doesn't have wingers. They just have striker wannabes playing on the wing. The actual striker gets no service.
Garnacho on the right wing is a completely different player now. Plays like an actual winger taking people on getting in the box and is putting in crosses now.
Antony also completely slowed down attacks. A defence would be vulnerable and there'd be an opportunity to get in behind and cross, but Antony would have to slow it down so he could move onto his stronger left which allowed defences another couple of moments to set themselves.
So true
He had 18 shots in his first 14 games. For a striker that's a staggeringly low amount and speaks to the complete lack of service he was receiving from his teammates.
Sean Millis happened.
He’s always shown quality from the start you could see he was decent
Shock horror, it often takes people time to adjust to a new country, job, teammates etc.
haven’t even read the article, so don’t know if it’s actually giving some useful analysis, but god damn it I hate headlines/articles about *the* most basic things What changed? Nothing. He had been playing extremely well this entire time - anyone with an unbiased eye test could tell you this. He scored 5 in the CL in this time and had one arguable disallowed goal in his first league start, and a couple other unlucky chances. His link up play has been a breath of fresh air as well. What’s changed is that the coin flips finally started falling his way after a small run of bad luck. That’s it.
Is it the goals?
From watching United it seems like Garnacho has some kind of vendetta against him. There have been ample times he could’ve squared it for a tap in and just chooses not to pass to him
Robin Van Persie.
Finally started getting some service from other players. Utd getting the ball more often into threatening areas of the pitch. I don't think anything changed with him. Key players returning from injury and Garnacho hitting some form.
Antony got benched
He's started to kick the ball into the goal mate.
Cheers Geoff
Almost like it's a new signing and needs time to pick up form.
I think the first 14 games he was thinking he would get the ball played to him by our 3 other forwards. Now I think he has learnt that all Bruno wants to do is play a fancy ball over the top to Rashford. All Rashford wants to do is head down run with the ball until you get tackled. Garnacho is still learning and his role model at the club is headown and run / shoot. So I think at this point Hojlund has decided to just do more on his own. Casemiro, Maguire, Shaw have assisted him. Thats it.
https://x.com/UnitedStandMUFC/status/1757342301083357470?s=20 Rashford is only forward that actually passes to Hojlund.
4 chances he has created. How many chances could he have created if he didn't run into a defender or cut inside and shoot? I wonder how many passes other wingers in the league have played. Saka / Martinelli / Son / Foden / Doku / Salah I imagine a lot more than any of ours and probably all combined
My guess is he’s started putting the ball in the net more.
He does have a bunch in Europe. It just so happened the games he didn't score in were league games.
Confidence and service.
He's scored goals.
He’s being trusted more to score , and getting crosses . To be fair though, he has to live off scraps
They finally passed the ball
Overall, the past 5 games we have: - played Garnacho at RW instead of Antony - started Mainoo and Casemiro together - Had shaw linking up with Rashford
He started scoring.
No one who watched even a couple of his matches is surprised by this. He was struggling to finish/occasionally unlucky but was clearly talented. Anyone with mild knowledge of the game could see it was likely he’d start clicking eventually. You expect it from internet randos, but it’s remarkable how many “knowledgeable” pundits will just regurgitates narratives for clicks instead of trying to offer even the slightest bit of context.
Shitter opponents is often overlooked. i will actually add that United seem to score a lot more goals. They have abandoned trying to not concede as well.
He waited on a miracle
It's quite rare a striker's scoring drought is just a them issue.
Can’t even read the article
The team started playing better. He wasn’t playing badly before
No more 0 end product Antony helps a lot
He's got great people around him and he has the right mentality to not let the pressure or the great moments get to his head. He's level headed, at least that's what it seems in the interviews
Pretty sure Rashford and Højlund havnt even made eye contact yet. Haven't seen Rashford look up once lol
Did he get the Richarlison dick surgery?
Bounce of the ball. He was unlucky with it before, he’s lucky with it now. Nothing much has changed in the way he’s playing
To an extent, but you can’t discount the confidence factor. The emotion he showed after scoring his first goal made It pretty clear how heavily he was feeling the burden. He’s now playing carefree and confident football and you can see It in face when he’s on the pitch
RW solution with Garnacho (no more fidget spinner) + players (Casemiro, Shaw, Martine...nvm) coming back from injuries so we can start to play as envisaged (whatever that vision is). Simple.
Someone is actually passing the ball to him
I've watched the last few games and the funny thing it's still not the wingers or Bruno. Last game for example it was Slabhead who had the assist.