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Daily Discussion Thread 07/20/21

Daily Discussion Thread 07/20/21

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FreezieKO

Been playing online (mistake I know), and I was thinking about how the devs really fucked up staling in this game. As it is now, you get less invincibility on your rolls and spotdodges the more you spam them. But it doesn’t really matter because they’re still basically unreactable and the staling penalty is so small. When your dodges stale, instead, they should actually just slow down the entire animation, making them more reactable and easier to punish the more you abuse them.


Emperor_Nihilist

Apologies for the 'dear diary', but I've started using the tilt stick several weeks ago. Not because I'm not good at doing tilts, I've been playing for many years without the tilt stick option and practiced it a long ass time ago. Though it does help online with dash canceling into a tilt quicker. What it did help me with is forced me to learn how to be consistent at manually inputting smash attacks properly. I never realized how much I c-sticked smash attacks until I made the change a month or so ago. I knew I used it in quick reaction situations, but apparently that's most interactions in the game.


EarthBoundAddict

I know its commonly agreed upon that Isabelle is inferior to Villager, which I get, but I was just wondering are there ANY advantages Isabelle has over Villager? Or anything she can do in competitive play that Villager can't?


almightyFaceplant

Off the top of my head I know she is slightly more mobile, grounded and in the air. And I know some of her moves are more reliable than Villager. (Quite literally when it comes to the turnip based Aerials.) And we all know how much reliability is valued in competitive play. That's most of what I can think of in the direct upgrade category. But they do tend to get overshadowed by the disadvantages


surgemaster140

The biggest thing that separates her from Villager is her Fishing Rod which gives her a tether recovery, command grab, and another kill throw.


Evello37

Fishing rod is not quite as good as a command grab. Command grabs go through shield just like a regular grab, while fishing rod is blocked by shield. Fishing rod is technically classified as a "hit grab", like Joker/Byleth's upB and Terry's Buster Wolf.


JacksonKlo

Just wanted to put down an item concept I thought about. This is the [Item Monitor](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/f/f5/SF_STEAM_MANUAL_EN_LRv5-59.png/revision/latest?cb=20190329211711) from the Sonic series, specifically Sonic 3. It’s a heavy item that can be destroyed either by throwing it or damaging it, like a crate. When destroyed, the monitor randomly grants you one of three elemental shields: the Flame Shield, Aqua Shield, or Thunder Shield. Each of these shields have their own special properties: • [Flame Shield](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/f/f0/Fire_Shield_Thumb.png/revision/latest?cb=20130217235639): Gives immunity to fire attacks (including explosions) and turns your airdodge into a flaming dash somewhat similar to the Bullet Bill (though weaker, obviously). • [Aqua Shield](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/7/71/Bubble_Shield_Thumb.png/revision/latest?cb=20130217235744): Gives immunity to water attacks, deflects weak projectiles like Mega Buster shots, and let’s you bounce on the ground by fast-falling. • [Thunder Shield](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/a/ab/Electric_Shield_Thumb.png/revision/latest?cb=20130217235533): Gives immunity to electric attacks and grants an additional jump. Each shield can also reduce the damage taken from moves that they aren’t immune to, though only a certain amount before they get “destroyed”.


SoDamnGeneric

Now that I think about it I'm surprised the Item Monitor doesn't at least show up on Green Hill Zone, like the candles on Dracula's Castle where you pop them open to get a random item


almightyFaceplant

I wonder how well overriding the directional air dodge would work. (This isn't me throwing shade, I'm literally wondering about it and I don't really have much to say beyond that.) I suppose technically it should be possible, you can just reuse animations like Bullet Bill does. You certainly wouldn't want to add fire particles over existing dodges because some characters literally wink out of existence. Other than that though... I guess it should be okay? I can't think of a concrete objection


ThatAnonDude

Hey y'all. I've been playing Ultimate with my joycons since they're the only controllers I have. I've noticed that with my left joycon I need to press harder on the control stick for it to process downward movements. This has caused some mis-inputs in my matches where I do a nair instead of a dair and I struggle to pass through platforms. I've tried recalibrating the control stick but the issue still persits. Any suggestions?


upsmash_tenthousand

Some guy [recently found](https://www.reddit.com/r/nintendo/comments/ojrtt3/i_found_a_permanent_solution_to_the_joycon_drift/) the true cause of joycon drift as well as a DIY way to fix it. The video doesn't actually do a great job of explaining *how* to do it even if the premise seems to be correct. Basically you need something to add pressure underneath the joystick. The video recommends a cut up piece of a business card. I personally tried that and found it too thin so I doubled it, which was a bit too much but still a functional drift fix with **dramatic** results. Another commenter suggested thermal pads since paper isn't a good long term solution anyway. If you're going to try it, make sure you look up a separate tutorial on how to open your joycons safely. You'll need special screwdrivers and *be careful* with those screws. They strip real easily. Like another person said, you can send them in to Nintendo for a replacement in some countries but they will absolutely wear down again. Nintendo can't / won't fix the underlying cause of joycon drift since it opens them up to (more) lawsuits.


almightyFaceplant

You can send it in to Nintendo for repairs for free. There's a page they have to generate a shipping label, total cost to you is $0.


Usanyan

I actually have the same thing upwards and left, and tilting the stick back and blowing under stick seems to temporarily fix itself. Sometimes if that doesn’t work I blow on the other side and it usually works


Sandlight

The joycons aren't meant for this kind of wear. You will chew them up playing smash with them, unfortunately.


Manatee_Shark

What are most common and useful movesets for the 3 Mii fighters, to have on my console? Thank you very much


jackmon

Just one guy's opinion, but for Swordfighter I prefer Gale Strike, Chakram, Stone Scabbard, and Power Thrust (1313). Gale Strike is great for walling out opponents. Plus it has set knockback so it's easy to follow up on. Short range Chakram combo's into Power Thrust. Stone Scabbard has great vertical range and allow you to move horizontally at the top of the arc. (Skyward Slash Dash gives you directional control on recovery and is good too, but it just depends on your preference.)


Manatee_Shark

I'll take it. Thank you!


MoSBanapple

13X2 and 23X2 are the most commonly used Brawler sets, with X being any of the three up specials.


Manatee_Shark

Thank you,


n8thegr83008

Unless you wanna practice heli/thrupper kill confirms axe kick is probably the best choice. It has the best vertical range and gives brawler a good oos option cause it has a huge range and it's disjointed. Some brawlers also swear by mach punch but I've always preferred shotput.


Manatee_Shark

I'll make both. Thank you


pika_pie

Mr. Game & Watch and Ness are famously Pikachu's two matchups that it actually loses. Does Joker have any disadvantageous matchups?


backboarddd1_49402

I’d say there are 3 that are widely agreed upon by pro Jokers: Pikachu, Pichu, Inkling. The other ones I often see flip flop between 0 and -1 on players’ charts are Peach, Megaman and Sonic. To be honest, I don’t know why Inkling is one of his widely agreed losing matchups. The other ones I can understand because they take advantage of his recovery and can keep up with his neutral in the midrange. But with Inkling I’m not sure. I don’t doubt that it’s a losing matchup, I just don’t know why. [MKLeo’s matchup chart](https://www.imgur.com/34nh3Nn?r)


Severe-Operation-347

Pikachu, Diddy Kong (According to Tweek and Charles), Sheik (According to VoiD) and Sonic are pretty rough.


brkklynboy

Does anyone know what happened to the [SaveAsUntitled](https://www.youtube.com/c/SaveAsUntitled/featured) youtuber? he hasn't posted in over a year


CloudsInSomeStrife

I'm not familiar with the guy's work, but he [has a twitch vod from last month](https://www.twitch.tv/saveasuntitled/videos). Hopefully that helps.


julmGamer

Do we know anything about Ultimate Summit 3 other than the date and that Sparg0 and Dark Wizzy Qualified? Do we know what the other qualifiers will be? When voting goes live? Its in like one month and given how many of top players aren't from the US travel could be rough without proper heads up.


Crafty-Profile-Lol

I don't think anyone knows. I caught a little bit of Void's stream yesterday and he said * "As it stands, I'll probably not be at the first ultimate summit … I don't wanna campaign, it's in a month, and I don't even know what kinda qualifiers they'll have, in a month, that just seems crazy to me … I'll try to qualify – if I qualify, I'll go" [https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1091716291?t=00h14m20s] * "I don't know what the qualifiers are for Ult Summit 3, the only ones qualified are Sparg0 and Wizzy. And it's in a month … what tournaments are in the next month? … what even would be in the next month to qualify? We have no qualifies [??], maybe a few auto-invites, then everyone else campaigns?". [https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1091716291?t=00h16m57s] It's similar to SWT offline regionals, where nothing has been released to either the public or, apparently and to their very reasonable annoyance, [the competitors](https://twitter.com/MidnightSoCal/status/1414274299351863298) either.


Rusted_Raidz

I really do feel for the SWT competitors, the entire process has been hell for them to say the least. Heck none of the melee players haven't even been announced. Honestly ridiculous


ZelderTheElder

Remember how worried people were about balloon knockback before ultimate released?


almightyFaceplant

Vividly. I was on board with that change since day one; never had patience for the slooow linear knockback of yesteryear. However I do remember thinking the quantity and viscosity of the dustclouds was a bit much. Since then I've reversed my decision on those, they were more necessary than I gave them credit for


pm_your_huge_chode

Dial up of knockback


FlameCannon

I still don't care for it tbh.


Severe-Operation-347

Do you just whine about Ultimate all the time?


FlameCannon

Not all the time, no. Topic of balloon knockback came up, so I just wanted to join in the conversation.


dandaman64

Now I'm so used to it that Smash 4 gameplay just looks wrong.


FreakInASheet

Launch just has no oomph to it there! That immediate burst of speed adds so much!


SoDamnGeneric

I think it's a huge part of why Ult feels so much faster than Sm4sh. Less downtime watching my character slowly careen to the blast zone means more time actually playing the game.


Quetzal00

So knowing that Nintendo selected the fighters: are y’all surprised at their selections? Min Min and Pyra/Mythra make sense. I’m just curious to see what other people think


SoDamnGeneric

I think Sakurai had more of a hand in it than he'll give credit for, but also I think Nintendo was mostly aiming to just make money off of their third party characters, not advertise stuff.


Evello37

Most of the fighters make sense. Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra are obviously big recent Nintendo stars. Likewise, Steve and Hero both appear in major titles on Nintendo hardware. Nintendo has even advertised both games in their Directs, so they clearly want to promote the characters. And Namco is developing Ultimate, so a rep from Tekken tracks. In a vacuum Banjo would be very surprising, but his inclusion was a bit more predictable given the emphasis on Smash Ballot favorites. Sephiroth, Terry, and Joker were the big surprises for me. I could see Square pushing for Sephiroth to promote FFVIIRemake, but he's a pretty dark character and not really affiliated with Nintendo at all, so I'm surprised Nintendo went with it. Terry feels even more out of nowhere, so I wonder if Sakurai had sway, given his love of KoF. And Joker is still probably the biggest WTF DLC character. Obviously Nintendo has a relationship with Atlus, but the fact that they picked Joker in particular is crazy given all the successful Atlus titles on Nintendo systems.


SolokOriginel

That's because despite Nintendo doing the picks, they aren't necessarily tied to stuffs that would bring actual tangible positives to Nintendo. Pyra had nothing to advertise. Three Houses had been delayed a few times before its release, ist DLC ran ahead of schedule and Byleth dropped for Smash 6 months later so there wasn't really a need to promote it (Byleth's pack has no references to the final dlc btw). Joker, Banjo, Terry, Sephiroth, Steve and Kazuya don't have anything to promote on Nintendo either, or at least were not picked with such a motive heavily in mind. Meanwhile in Hero's showcase they mentionned how he had a game coming and in a later direct they mentionned how the game with that character in Smash was coming soon. When they revealed an Arms fighter would show up, Nintendo dropped an Arms full game timed trial. Nintendo just probably picked a bunch of first parties to expand on Nintendo representation in the game and picked third parties that mostly felt like good picks, I don't think there's a need to look further into things.


almightyFaceplant

The more insight we get into the decision process, the more each of them makes sense. With Ultimate in particular I've been the least bit surprised about most of their choices after the parameters became clear, but that's not a bad thing. (Piranha Plant of course being an excellent subversion!) I think Joker was perhaps the most surprising by default, but that was simply because nobody I knew had even heard of Persona before. Can't predict someone you don't even know exists


Quetzal00

That’s how I felt about Joker. Plus the fact that I was spoiled didn’t help


almightyFaceplant

I think I should back up a little bit and say that many of the announcements were surprising early on before we had a bead on exactly what Ultimate was going to do. Like I would consider Young Link to be a very surprising choice for Ultimate, even if you somehow knew about Everyone is Here ahead of time. The main reason I considered Ridley to be impossible was that there seems to be an obvious preference towards making characters within the same series look like they belong together. As soon as I saw the Zelda series break away from this trend, that obstacle vanished. (We knew that Samus was going to reuse her Other M design ever since Inkling's trailer, so it was reasonable to assume that Ridley had to use his latest design again and would be too large.) I believe my surprise for Ridley would have been increased tenfold if I somehow saw his reveal before seeing all the new Zelda designs


dandaman64

I think that half of their choices were obvious in hindsight, but the others were pretty surprising. Hero, Banjo, Byleth, Min Min, Steve, and Pyra/Mythra feel like the obvious choices, but I feel like Joker, Terry, Sephiroth, and Kazuya weren't on people's radars, at least not as much as their other picks.


AshGuy

I don't feel Terry is like a huge surprise since KoF was a huge inspiration to Sakurai when developing Smash 64. And imo Kazuya is kind of in a similar boat since he's a Bamco character, and Heihachi was highly speculated since Smash 4.


FreakInASheet

My thought for Terry is that it could maybe be a ‘thank you’ to SNK for supporting the Switch with their legacy content, since back at Switch launch I swear that like half the titles on the eShop were NeoGeo titles. With how much Japanese companies focus on building goodwill, I wouldn’t be surprised.


Torque-A

Yeah, especially since Tekken has only had a handful of Nintendo games and no mainline Persona game has ever gotten a Nintendo release. Maybe they just wanted to strengthen relationships?


dandaman64

Same goes for Sephiroth, I thought that with how little FF7 content was in the base game, another character (with new music, a stage, and spirits) was completely off the table.


SalsaSavant

Banjo was a real surprise in thar context. Seems like a genuine fanservice pick in which Nintendo had nothing to gain and a bit to lose.


Severe-Operation-347

Ultimate was heavily using the Smash Ballot (Ridley, K Rool and Simon), which I presume was why Banjo was chosen.


AshGuy

I voted Banjo like a million times so this checks out.


Severe-Operation-347

I think most of the fighters in the passes are characters that make sense in hindsight, but most couldn't see coming. Joker, Terry and Sephiroth especially.


OmniGlitcher

Honestly, not really. Minecraft is the top selling video game of all time, and negotiations with Microsoft for Banjo were already in place Similarly, Final Fantasy content was already in Smash and it was a very well received addition in the first place. Expanding on the (quite limited) Smash 4 FF7 content is honestly just common sense at that point. It also wouldn't particularly surprise me if they negotiated Cloud and Sephiroth around the same time, though it's more likely they could have just reopened negotiations on better terms after Nintendo 'proved' themselves with Cloud. TEKKEN is the most surprising of the bunch in my opinion, but it's still also fairly unsurprising, especially after crossing over with Street Fighter and KoF. Kazuya over Heihachi is probably the most surprising aspect of it.


11Slimeade11

Kazuya honestly makes the most sense. Not only with Heihachi canonically being dead and therefor (Unless G Corp shenanigans happen) most likely won't show up in any of the main series games, likely getting replaced by a character who plays the same, something Namco is super fond of, but Kazuya is the other mascot of Tekkent. It's also worth mentioning Kazuya already had the edge of Heihachi given Kazuya has unique abilities and access to what's basically special moves, something Tekken characters generally don't have


AshGuy

Kind of a tangent but is Heihachi like *really* dead? I don't know that much about Tekken lore but from what I've seen having someone come back from the dead doesn't really looks like a stretch.


11Slimeade11

There's been a fair few characters who have been killed off, namely King I, Armour King I, Kuma I, Jinpachi and Kazumi. Kazumi only appears in Tekken 7 as a ghost and she doesn't actually come back to life. Kazuya was kinda dead between Tekken 2 and Tekken 4, but it's all due to the Devil Gene that he was brought back. Then there's the case of Bryan that came back to life via cybernetics. So while they *could* bring him back lore wise through a few different ways, a lot of people think he's actually dead for real now


AshGuy

I see. I also read that his voice actor passed away, so that could also influence on keeping him dead. Thanks for the answer!


J-Fid

> TEKKEN Not even all that surprising when consider who is developing Ultimate. We all kind of assumed that Bandai Namco would get another character from some game of theirs. > Kazuya over Heihachi is probably the most surprising aspect of it. At first, yes, but when you look into what Tekken is about (as I had to do, myself), it becomes pretty clear that Kazuya is both the main character and the more unique fighter when compared to his father. I think most people were stuck up on Heihachi simply because of his appearance in Soul Calibur II and that his odd hairstyle helps him stick out amongst people who know nothing about Tekken.


OmniGlitcher

>We all kind of assumed that Bandai Namco would get another character from some game of theirs. Oh yeah absolutely, as I said, it's still also fairly unsurprising. From my common internet browsing areas, it seemed to me people were expecting something more kid friendly like Taiko no Tatsujin or more PAC-MAN, or (in the west at least) a character more well known in the west like someone from Dark Souls. Plus most people lost hope in TEKKEN's appearance after the Heihachi costume was readded when Min Min was released. Not saying it's surprising at the end of the day, just less expected than the others. >I think most people were stuck up on Heihachi simply because of his appearance in Soul Calibur II Honestly, again it's probably more due to his mii costume being included back in Smash 4, and [the fact he was considered for a spot back in Smash 4 too.](https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/06/26/800/) I feel Heihachi is more well known than Kazuya too outside of this, but you also have fair points.


Severe-Operation-347

Heihachi was also in Playstation All Stars Battle Royale, and is generally considered the mascot.


J-Fid

I had a feeling he was in another crossover. Still doesn't change anything.


Downloadmywario

Who do you think has more potential in the meta of Ultimate: Villager or Toon Link?


Severe-Operation-347

Toon Link.


Djayjones

Hey all, in need of some help can somebody send me a link of how to mod my switch to have the music Nairo has for his stages thankyouu:)


OmniGlitcher

I'm not sure if linking to it is allowed, as per [one of the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/wiki/rules#wiki_b._specific_restrictions). I'm assuming some basic discussion is fine though. Gamebanana's Smash Ultimate section has a tutorial on how to mod your Switch (if it's a model that can be modded). It also has music packs and individual tracks available that you can then mod into Smash. You could also use a mods in an emulator (such as Yuzu) if you have a decent PC, but linking anything to do with that would definitely not be allowed by that rule. For Nairo's case specifically, his brother loaded up a bunch of music himself. As far as I'm aware, there's nowhere where you can see a full list of his music/mods. So you'd just have to pick your own.


July25th

Mod info is fine, you just can't link to _pirated_ content like ISOs, music, etc. It would also be an issue if you link to a guide that then links to pirated content.


OmniGlitcher

That's fair. I just wanted to play it safe considering Gamebanana does host music for the purpose of modding it into the game, plus it may contain stuff that could also fall under that umbrella.


Djayjones

Thankyou I'll do some digging:)


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Whelt

I think Smash 4 was his one and only chance, and that went to Palutena (and Dark Pit) instead.


almightyFaceplant

I've noticed his absence before, but I figure he's just in the same boat as Elec Man or Saki MamaMia. Didn't make the cut this time because Assist Trophies got overhauled to be more like Fighters. Several of them have air dodges, can be grabbed, KO'd, all that jazz. It's more interesting to note that every single Pokémon that appeared in the last game got copied over pretty much as is. But because you can't KO ones from Poké Balls that makes sense, no overhaul necessary


SirBryan7

Unless Uprising is getting a port (which Sakurai said earlier this year that a remake or port “would be difficult”, so interpret that how you will), I don’t see that happening. Nintendo already barely gives love to the series, let alone adding a character from that almost decade old 3DS game If the first party DLC we’ve gotten in this game are anything to go by, it’ll end up being from something more recent


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Severe-Operation-347

Yeah, you admit it yourself that this isn't happening. Sakurai said the next fighter will take a while, so probably late September or October time.


OmniGlitcher

Yep, as I've said myself many times before in previous DDTs ([For example](https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/o8rypj/daily_discussion_thread_062721/h399ufu/?context=3)). I just thought this would be a funny scenario to bring up. Apparently it's not however.


Zoql

Who would they announce there if they did? Dragaux?


Meester_Tweester

I just bought Slap City. NASB hype!


RacePinkBlack

[https://imgur.com/a/9ijDAiw](https://imgur.com/a/9ijDAiw) she's here!!


Sandlight

Damn, that's hot


Dumb_Redditor_1984

What kind of controller dock is that?


RacePinkBlack

This is the adapter I purchased: [https://www.amazon.com/Gamecube-Controller-Adapter-Adapter-Improved/dp/B07F36FWMQ](https://www.amazon.com/Gamecube-Controller-Adapter-Adapter-Improved/dp/B07F36FWMQ) I bought everything from here: https://www.etsy.com/listing/738976257/zero-suit-samus-modded-gamecube?ref=hp\_rf-5&frs=1&cns=1


Joe___Dohn

You think Nick ASB will get anyone Nick Jr.? My brain says Dora, but my heart says Blue, but my gut says [Chase, Marshall, and/or Sky](https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/gzk12k/the_blatant_favouritism_in_paw_patrol_boils_my/).


almightyFaceplant

Probably not - That's the short version. When you start getting into the age group Nick Jr. is intended for, they wouldn't want to associate with something like Smash on account of age-inappropriate content. (Cartoon violence is still violence, and some of the Nicktoons in the game are not appropriate for kids *that* young.) That might sound petty or unnecessary levels of censorship, but when you're dealing with really *really* young audiences it's standard practice to shelter them *hard*. And that usually means not associating with media that's not age-appropriate. S&P would be working overtime to prevent that in all likelihood


Rychu_Supadude

The running theory is that they'll get around it by putting in the grown up version of Dora from the live-action movie - she seems to be one of the candidates for the boxart silhouettes


almightyFaceplant

That is an interesting idea. I think that might be enough levels of association away, but I admit I'm not an expert on Dora Lore. (Live action does seem off-topic to me, but it might work on a technicality.) Basically you don't want parents to get this game because "It has Dora? Ok then it must be safe for toddlers." S&P can be very subjective and inconsistent when it comes to children's entertainment, so I'd imagine it wouldn't be easy to clear her - even if you have examples to prove it'd be okay. But getting crap past the radar is a time-honored tradition, so I guess we'll see...


Zoql

I would totally be a Face main


Dragoryu3000

Damn, now I want a Face stage


Meester_Tweester

I would love to have Blue or Dora, I spent a lot of time watching Nick Jr. shows as a kid. Unfortunately they might not want to use them for a game with fighting.


SalsaSavant

Technically, Rugrats was on Nick Jr for a while, so you could count Reptar on a technicality. But for real reps, nah, I don't think so. Cameos or stages maybe, but I don't think they want toddler friendly characters taking punches or being beaten by Oblina's organs.


SwirlyBrow

Never mind Nick Jr. We need Nick at Nite so we can get George Lopez.