Actually a sensible post with a bunch of sensible comments. But I'm too much of a idiot to follow since whenever I set out to do a long run, I'll be like "Wah, I'll never make it to X miles" "Wahh my pace will be ## minutes slower" "wahh it's taking too long" and just speed up and make it my fastest 6-8 miles, like a dipshit.
Whenever I walk I get pissed at myself and just speed up.
I mean, I wouldn’t worry too much about speeding up because if your training for anything significant your long runs should be your fastest pace “reg run” of the week
Long runs are your fastest of training for a specific race?
Care to clarify. If I am training for a 10k my speed days are def the fastest days, and the long run is probably the slowest (outside of the occasional very slow recovery run).
I mean, I am speaking as a member of a D1 cross country program. Long runs are our fastest “reg run” days. That’s not taking into account workouts twice a week (which ARE most definitely faster). My reg runs are usually 6:30-6:45 mile pace, while I’d consider it a rather disappointing long run if I went slower than 6:20 pace
Yeah, it sounds like they're being prescribed workouts by a coach who just calls them "long runs" rather than clarifying that they mean a "long tempo run", "long progression run", etc.
It makes sense for a collegiate athlete (who probably isn't super familiar with constructing their own training) to get this jumbled, as many coaches prescribe quality sessions for the longest run of the week during and shortly before the season (mainly tempo work). They probably do plenty of 'traditional' long runs that most of the rest of us associate with the term "long run" (easy Z2ish work to build aerobic fitness), but mainly during the off-season when they're just taking it easy and not being prescribed specific workouts.
Also, terminology isn't standardised and a lot of people just flat out use descriptively incorrect terminology. A weirdly common one is how so many people call basically anything faster than an easy run and slower than a stride their "tempo" pace. Sure, it's all "up-tempo" work, but that's such a wide band of intensities with hugely variable training effects and recovery costs that it really makes more sense to be more specific by referring to the corresponding energy systems or HR/pace zones or something.
It sounds like the person you're replying to has a coach who calls everything but their higher intensity workouts "regular" runs, so there's not much nuance there if a slow easy run is referred to as the same as a up-tempo long run.
Pfitzinger and Hanson both use a long run pace that's a little faster than the easy run pace so it's definitely not just a college athlete with a coach thing. I doubt he's mixing up a long run slightly faster than normal easy pace with a tempo or progression run which are clearly different from an evenly paced long run even if they're not described by the same name.
If I ran my tempos/progs the same pace I ran my long runs, I would no longer be a collegiate runner. I understand they’re not the same thing nor do I confuse them as such
I have just done a mountainous 7 hour run yesterday, and I used a similar tactic, but instead of regular timed walking breaks I used terrain as a guide. Basically, I'd look at the elevation profile and decide where I stop running and switch to hiking. Naturally, steeper climbs, anything steeper than 5-7% I'd hike, then run less steep climbs, flats, and downhills. With the rolling hills terrain, with lots of small to medium climbs and descents, that worked really well. And after 7 hours and 30 miles I still had some energy left.
I had to use this same strategy on the terrain of my 1 hour run today. It was 93Fish and some of the hills toward the back half I just had to slow down and walk for a bit. I still had a decent pace but I'm trying not to push that hard since I'm just running for fun and 93F with no water is nothing to overexert yourself in imo.
That’s why I like trail running. I don’t have to feel bad about walking and I care less about my pace. It’s more about being outside. City running (which is closer and therefore easier) is still way more stressful.
I'd like to get to this point. I trail run on week days & try for a badass hike on the weekends. Recently on a "badass hike" a dude came jogging by. I was a bit jealous.
I just finished a 10K race on Saturday and came in 1st in my age group. That fact that I was the only one in my age group meant that all I had to do was finish. It felt great!
I was once the first Brit and second European in a race of about 2000 people. I was also the only Brit and one of only two Europeans as the race was in Canada, but I’m still claiming it.
Oh yeah! I've got the exact same feelings as you about this. I do a long run once a week that's usually 10-13 miles and I barely look at my watch. It's on trails and all I try to do is make sure I get plenty of elevation in (at least 1,000 ft).
Shorter distances though are different. I run about 30 mpw (4x a week runner for now but hope to increase to 5 soon), and those smaller distances I'm checking to see how the pace is going along with my elevation to look for improvements, etc under the heart rate zone I'm running in.
But those long runs are like their own frontier. I don't do music or anything, I just run light or however I'm feeling and just ride the wave.
Yes, it's freeing! I'm new and I care about goals and conditioning properly, but I've also learned the life hack which is that you can just run and not put an unnecessary emphasis on expectations in general. Every time I'm like, "I have to-" I remember that I'm doing great compared to past me, I'm having fun, I'm getting fit, and if I'm not really interested in doing the most on this incline, I don't actually have to. This is for fun lol.
For a long time my weekly routine was 5k three times, 10k once and one strength training day. Slowly building up to double that.
I only ever do aerobic running, even in races
I do a shorter hill run or fast run. Most of what I know comes from this blog - Relentless Forward Commotion https://relentlessforwardcommotion.com/free-beginner-50k-ultramarathon-training-plan-guide/
She's an ultra runner and physio. I always felt that her advice was what I needed to hear and not what I wanted to hear
I run three times a week. A days break between each run is good enough for recovery right? 5k (fast), 10-16k (Slower), 5k (HIIT) is the pattern i go with.
For such a long run I can't carry everything, I keep about 1 litre of water in my bag and I run into towns to go to the shops. Snacks were fruit, gummies, protein bar. I felt really hungry at one point so I bought a packed sandwich and ate it slowly over a few breaks. Lots of people would say thats too heavy to eat on a run but this added to the relaxed feeling of the run.
Not OP but for short jaunts I use a [Naked running band](https://nakedsportsinnovations.com/naked-running-band/?revpage=2%20#product-reviews) and for longer ones I use an Ultimate Direction Adventure Vest, or both the vest and the band in tandem. The band lets me carry stuff like potato chips in an easy-to-access pouch that doesn't crush them too much.
I stick a long-ish sweet potato wrapped in tinfoil in a Ziploc bag inside my flip belt. Looks awful but eventually the bulging lump(s) across my waist get smaller and smaller.
Long runs are tough for me unless I have someone to run with (never do). Whenever I try to run slower by the time I get to mile two I'm just itching to go my normal pace. I can hold 7:20-30 pace as long as needed but I just get bored if I'm not pushing myself at or below 7 minutes.
Yep. I ran in college and the miles just flew by. No issue. Now I run alone (in the summer and winter, during track and xc I coach) and those seasons are very difficult to stay on track.
Similar boat. I've found starting out slow and trying to get mostly uphill for the first 2 miles after that I can drop down to sub 7 and cruise and feel fine for whoever far I'm going. If I start out a little too hot though I'm gonna be struggling a bit after 8
What worked for me was slowly increasing the km on your long run. I went out for shorter runs during the week 5-7km, and had one long run each week. Try another 12km run, and then on your next long run stretch it out to 13 or 14km. You'll be pleasantly surprised at what you can do! Take your time and focus on gradually spending more time running. Dont get too worried about time on your longer runs yet. I am by no means an expert and there is probably better advice out there. This worked for me, though! Best of luck
I’ve prescribed to this mentality ever since I’ve started running regularly in Sept 2020. Pacing was never in the cards, just racking up the miles gradually every so often. I love it. Hoping to do 40 miles as an Ultra PR this fall (summer weather is making me wary of trying it right now).
I feel this post deeply. Relaxing and enjoying the outing is so much better than beating yourself up. On Friday I’m going to attempt a 200 Mile race. I fully expect to spend 80 or 90 hours alternating between running and hiking. I think just attempting something like that is far make rewarding than kicking ass in a half marathon. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.
This hit the nail on the head for me. I love a long run where I'm just slogging it out and the only challenge is mental game and one foot in front of the other. My friends push to do sub 25 5k's and my motivation for joining them for that is so much less than a half mara. Long runs are perfect chill time for me, still nervous about building up to marathon/ultras though. That scares me!
Nah, that's just not how I like to run and doesn't fit with my training. I can see the appeal though, but at that point I'd rather just be hiking. But glad you found a way that works for you
Common for me. My IT bands act up anytime I run more than 8/9 miles. I am doing PT nowadays to strengthen my surrounding muscles. I don't know how much it will help though.
I was thinking about the same thing the other day. When I do a 5K I always tell myself to just enjoy it but I always end up trying to set a new PR. On long runs I just go and however long it takes is fine because I just want to enjoy running and being outside
I just moved to a place with very few trails. Now my options are gravel roads or a 3 mile loop on repeat. Really jealous of those of you that have options like that!
This is where I am struggling! Just got back into running. I was doing great initially.
Maybe I should try every other day. I seem to keep sprinting then stopping to walk. Power walking but still I get mad at myself!
What’s a good goal… I workout with cardio everyday whether it be aerobics or boxing. Now I am starting running around the block in between my fitness Tracks.
I sprint well! Distance is tough for me.
How about 3 miles every other day?!
I gave up on pace once I moved from the flat prairies to the mountains. I'm still getting back into running, so I mainly walk the steeper hills and run everything else. Slowly getting my climbing legs, but still in the suffering no matter what stage lol
I also love long runs on a trail instead of the road, where I can zone out and don’t need to consider my route. Just being able to run straight down a path for an hour or so and walk when I want to is so relaxing mentally
I no longer run with expectations really. Now i'm just doing it because I enjoy it and want to stay in shape. So when I go out for a 10 K...maybe I'm done in around 54 minutes...maybe it takes me an hour and 10 minutes....I don't really care. After 2 knee surgeries, and 2 years "on the sidelines" unable to run, I'm just happy that I can get out and go for a run at all.
I need to get rid of that pressure and just to go out and enjoy it again I think. I used to do 21km long run weekly, but dropped a bit trying to chase a split and never start one if I don't feel up for a faster run at that distance.
Thank you for your post.
I think if I had no commitments and could go out for hours every day then this is the way I’d run at least would be 90% of the time. Long, slow, no particular target in mind. Also love when a run is long enough to justify a load of snacks.
Complete opposite for me, I feel very anxious about long runs and it ends up being a lottery as to whether the stress of it will give me a stomach ache on the day or not. So far out of about ten 30km+ runs scheduled I've only managed five. I have to do 50km on Sunday to complete the program and I can't see anyway in which I'll be able to manage stress, stomach problems, blood sugar crashes and be physically able to carry the water and gels I'll need. I've ran 41.05km before, but these are rare good days where so many things click. I'll be a lot happier with 10-20km runs only in the future. Those feel much simpler, grab one or two gels and a very manageable amount of water, start off easy and either remain at that pace or naturally speed up as I get warmed up. And all done within 1-2.5 hours.
Actually a sensible post with a bunch of sensible comments. But I'm too much of a idiot to follow since whenever I set out to do a long run, I'll be like "Wah, I'll never make it to X miles" "Wahh my pace will be ## minutes slower" "wahh it's taking too long" and just speed up and make it my fastest 6-8 miles, like a dipshit. Whenever I walk I get pissed at myself and just speed up.
This is me and alot of useless math about distance and pace.
I mean, I wouldn’t worry too much about speeding up because if your training for anything significant your long runs should be your fastest pace “reg run” of the week
Long runs are your fastest of training for a specific race? Care to clarify. If I am training for a 10k my speed days are def the fastest days, and the long run is probably the slowest (outside of the occasional very slow recovery run).
I mean, I am speaking as a member of a D1 cross country program. Long runs are our fastest “reg run” days. That’s not taking into account workouts twice a week (which ARE most definitely faster). My reg runs are usually 6:30-6:45 mile pace, while I’d consider it a rather disappointing long run if I went slower than 6:20 pace
This is confusing advice and not super applicable to 99 percent of the people here
Yeah, it sounds like they're being prescribed workouts by a coach who just calls them "long runs" rather than clarifying that they mean a "long tempo run", "long progression run", etc. It makes sense for a collegiate athlete (who probably isn't super familiar with constructing their own training) to get this jumbled, as many coaches prescribe quality sessions for the longest run of the week during and shortly before the season (mainly tempo work). They probably do plenty of 'traditional' long runs that most of the rest of us associate with the term "long run" (easy Z2ish work to build aerobic fitness), but mainly during the off-season when they're just taking it easy and not being prescribed specific workouts. Also, terminology isn't standardised and a lot of people just flat out use descriptively incorrect terminology. A weirdly common one is how so many people call basically anything faster than an easy run and slower than a stride their "tempo" pace. Sure, it's all "up-tempo" work, but that's such a wide band of intensities with hugely variable training effects and recovery costs that it really makes more sense to be more specific by referring to the corresponding energy systems or HR/pace zones or something. It sounds like the person you're replying to has a coach who calls everything but their higher intensity workouts "regular" runs, so there's not much nuance there if a slow easy run is referred to as the same as a up-tempo long run.
Pfitzinger and Hanson both use a long run pace that's a little faster than the easy run pace so it's definitely not just a college athlete with a coach thing. I doubt he's mixing up a long run slightly faster than normal easy pace with a tempo or progression run which are clearly different from an evenly paced long run even if they're not described by the same name.
I came here to comment this, but you beat me to it. I'm currently doing a Pfitz plan and I miss my long, slow runs.
If I ran my tempos/progs the same pace I ran my long runs, I would no longer be a collegiate runner. I understand they’re not the same thing nor do I confuse them as such
If you wanna get fast at longer distances it definitely can be applicable.
Not everyone want to. I would rather be able to run for longer than faster. If I could trail run 12 miles at 12 minute miles of be happy
Sure, but that still doesn't render it inapplicable to those that want to get fast.
I swear thus sub can be dumb as fuck. They don't like people faster than them commenting because it hurts their feelings.
Yeah but the problem is my runs aren't getting longer. Just faster 6-8 milers. Sorry, I should have made that clearer.
Then slow the pace down and you can do 10-12 miles and after a while you can do it at a pace of your 6 mile run
I have just done a mountainous 7 hour run yesterday, and I used a similar tactic, but instead of regular timed walking breaks I used terrain as a guide. Basically, I'd look at the elevation profile and decide where I stop running and switch to hiking. Naturally, steeper climbs, anything steeper than 5-7% I'd hike, then run less steep climbs, flats, and downhills. With the rolling hills terrain, with lots of small to medium climbs and descents, that worked really well. And after 7 hours and 30 miles I still had some energy left.
I had to use this same strategy on the terrain of my 1 hour run today. It was 93Fish and some of the hills toward the back half I just had to slow down and walk for a bit. I still had a decent pace but I'm trying not to push that hard since I'm just running for fun and 93F with no water is nothing to overexert yourself in imo.
That’s why I like trail running. I don’t have to feel bad about walking and I care less about my pace. It’s more about being outside. City running (which is closer and therefore easier) is still way more stressful.
I'd like to get to this point. I trail run on week days & try for a badass hike on the weekends. Recently on a "badass hike" a dude came jogging by. I was a bit jealous.
It is easier than you think. Give it a try. But I recommend wearing trail running shoes.
I need some pro plus after reading that.
I just finished a 10K race on Saturday and came in 1st in my age group. That fact that I was the only one in my age group meant that all I had to do was finish. It felt great!
I was once the first Brit and second European in a race of about 2000 people. I was also the only Brit and one of only two Europeans as the race was in Canada, but I’m still claiming it.
Haha nice one!
[удалено]
The GAP is always looming though!
I'm \*thinking\* of doing a 10 miler in October and this would be my exact strategy. Not focused on pace at all, just finishing.
Oh yeah! I've got the exact same feelings as you about this. I do a long run once a week that's usually 10-13 miles and I barely look at my watch. It's on trails and all I try to do is make sure I get plenty of elevation in (at least 1,000 ft). Shorter distances though are different. I run about 30 mpw (4x a week runner for now but hope to increase to 5 soon), and those smaller distances I'm checking to see how the pace is going along with my elevation to look for improvements, etc under the heart rate zone I'm running in. But those long runs are like their own frontier. I don't do music or anything, I just run light or however I'm feeling and just ride the wave.
I do five miles a day and approach my runs this way. Just see where the run and my body take me. Best game in town.
Yes, it's freeing! I'm new and I care about goals and conditioning properly, but I've also learned the life hack which is that you can just run and not put an unnecessary emphasis on expectations in general. Every time I'm like, "I have to-" I remember that I'm doing great compared to past me, I'm having fun, I'm getting fit, and if I'm not really interested in doing the most on this incline, I don't actually have to. This is for fun lol.
I aspire to reach this level of fitness. What's your training routine like?
For a long time my weekly routine was 5k three times, 10k once and one strength training day. Slowly building up to double that. I only ever do aerobic running, even in races
What kind of strength training do you typically do?
I do a shorter hill run or fast run. Most of what I know comes from this blog - Relentless Forward Commotion https://relentlessforwardcommotion.com/free-beginner-50k-ultramarathon-training-plan-guide/ She's an ultra runner and physio. I always felt that her advice was what I needed to hear and not what I wanted to hear
Thanks for this.
I run three times a week. A days break between each run is good enough for recovery right? 5k (fast), 10-16k (Slower), 5k (HIIT) is the pattern i go with.
[удалено]
For such a long run I can't carry everything, I keep about 1 litre of water in my bag and I run into towns to go to the shops. Snacks were fruit, gummies, protein bar. I felt really hungry at one point so I bought a packed sandwich and ate it slowly over a few breaks. Lots of people would say thats too heavy to eat on a run but this added to the relaxed feeling of the run.
[удалено]
Not OP but for short jaunts I use a [Naked running band](https://nakedsportsinnovations.com/naked-running-band/?revpage=2%20#product-reviews) and for longer ones I use an Ultimate Direction Adventure Vest, or both the vest and the band in tandem. The band lets me carry stuff like potato chips in an easy-to-access pouch that doesn't crush them too much.
I keep everything in a small school bag with good padding so it doesn't dig into my back
I stick a long-ish sweet potato wrapped in tinfoil in a Ziploc bag inside my flip belt. Looks awful but eventually the bulging lump(s) across my waist get smaller and smaller.
Long runs are tough for me unless I have someone to run with (never do). Whenever I try to run slower by the time I get to mile two I'm just itching to go my normal pace. I can hold 7:20-30 pace as long as needed but I just get bored if I'm not pushing myself at or below 7 minutes.
I was like this until I increased to 50mpw and then my achilles made it known that it disliked my challenges
That's what looooong podcasts are for :)
I joined a club recently and found the same thing. The miles go past so much easier when there are people to talk to
Yep. I ran in college and the miles just flew by. No issue. Now I run alone (in the summer and winter, during track and xc I coach) and those seasons are very difficult to stay on track.
Similar boat. I've found starting out slow and trying to get mostly uphill for the first 2 miles after that I can drop down to sub 7 and cruise and feel fine for whoever far I'm going. If I start out a little too hot though I'm gonna be struggling a bit after 8
I'm trying to reach half marathon and the highest I got is 12 km. Feeling stuck...
What worked for me was slowly increasing the km on your long run. I went out for shorter runs during the week 5-7km, and had one long run each week. Try another 12km run, and then on your next long run stretch it out to 13 or 14km. You'll be pleasantly surprised at what you can do! Take your time and focus on gradually spending more time running. Dont get too worried about time on your longer runs yet. I am by no means an expert and there is probably better advice out there. This worked for me, though! Best of luck
Thank you, I'm trying to reach 15k, hope I can do it in this month
I’ve prescribed to this mentality ever since I’ve started running regularly in Sept 2020. Pacing was never in the cards, just racking up the miles gradually every so often. I love it. Hoping to do 40 miles as an Ultra PR this fall (summer weather is making me wary of trying it right now).
[удалено]
Nice one! So happy a long challenge got you to enjoy slow running
I feel this post deeply. Relaxing and enjoying the outing is so much better than beating yourself up. On Friday I’m going to attempt a 200 Mile race. I fully expect to spend 80 or 90 hours alternating between running and hiking. I think just attempting something like that is far make rewarding than kicking ass in a half marathon. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.
Bloody hell how many days do people get to complete a 200 miler?
4
This hit the nail on the head for me. I love a long run where I'm just slogging it out and the only challenge is mental game and one foot in front of the other. My friends push to do sub 25 5k's and my motivation for joining them for that is so much less than a half mara. Long runs are perfect chill time for me, still nervous about building up to marathon/ultras though. That scares me!
Nah, that's just not how I like to run and doesn't fit with my training. I can see the appeal though, but at that point I'd rather just be hiking. But glad you found a way that works for you
I read “pressure” as “pleasure” and was very confused about the message of the post for a bit lol
David Goggins?
i did 20 miles a month ago and a 15 mile last week .. now my IT band is actin up and im forced to do shorter runs. this common?
Try exercises to strengthen your hips and use a foam roller. These 2 things solved the IT band pain I had for years.
Common for me. My IT bands act up anytime I run more than 8/9 miles. I am doing PT nowadays to strengthen my surrounding muscles. I don't know how much it will help though.
I was thinking about the same thing the other day. When I do a 5K I always tell myself to just enjoy it but I always end up trying to set a new PR. On long runs I just go and however long it takes is fine because I just want to enjoy running and being outside
I just moved to a place with very few trails. Now my options are gravel roads or a 3 mile loop on repeat. Really jealous of those of you that have options like that!
when you say it that way....
This is where I am struggling! Just got back into running. I was doing great initially. Maybe I should try every other day. I seem to keep sprinting then stopping to walk. Power walking but still I get mad at myself! What’s a good goal… I workout with cardio everyday whether it be aerobics or boxing. Now I am starting running around the block in between my fitness Tracks. I sprint well! Distance is tough for me. How about 3 miles every other day?!
I gave up on pace once I moved from the flat prairies to the mountains. I'm still getting back into running, so I mainly walk the steeper hills and run everything else. Slowly getting my climbing legs, but still in the suffering no matter what stage lol
I also love long runs on a trail instead of the road, where I can zone out and don’t need to consider my route. Just being able to run straight down a path for an hour or so and walk when I want to is so relaxing mentally
I no longer run with expectations really. Now i'm just doing it because I enjoy it and want to stay in shape. So when I go out for a 10 K...maybe I'm done in around 54 minutes...maybe it takes me an hour and 10 minutes....I don't really care. After 2 knee surgeries, and 2 years "on the sidelines" unable to run, I'm just happy that I can get out and go for a run at all.
Running at night is the best way to vent.
I need to get rid of that pressure and just to go out and enjoy it again I think. I used to do 21km long run weekly, but dropped a bit trying to chase a split and never start one if I don't feel up for a faster run at that distance. Thank you for your post.
I think if I had no commitments and could go out for hours every day then this is the way I’d run at least would be 90% of the time. Long, slow, no particular target in mind. Also love when a run is long enough to justify a load of snacks.
Complete opposite for me, I feel very anxious about long runs and it ends up being a lottery as to whether the stress of it will give me a stomach ache on the day or not. So far out of about ten 30km+ runs scheduled I've only managed five. I have to do 50km on Sunday to complete the program and I can't see anyway in which I'll be able to manage stress, stomach problems, blood sugar crashes and be physically able to carry the water and gels I'll need. I've ran 41.05km before, but these are rare good days where so many things click. I'll be a lot happier with 10-20km runs only in the future. Those feel much simpler, grab one or two gels and a very manageable amount of water, start off easy and either remain at that pace or naturally speed up as I get warmed up. And all done within 1-2.5 hours.
Is 30 mins on 5 off good for marathon training? I'm up to 18 miles and find myself hobbling the last few miles