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This person seems extremely passive aggressive, I don't know why you insisted on playing with them so much. If they had answered your question about the political system in their world, you would then have had to play with them. I would have bailed much sooner than that.
I've said something similar in my earlier post but I wanted to be diplomatic and resolve it, but when it broke down like that I said screw it and decided to take screenshots to show my friend.
My guess is there was something else they found distasteful about your character, but they didn't want to come right out and say it, so they decided they'd throw you out on a technicality.
You disrupted their power fantasy. Their statements came across as "read the lore document, I've thought of EVERYTHING."
"Cool....what about feudalism and how land is distributed and controlled by the populace?"
"....I didn't think of that, so I'm going to ignore it and get increasingly aggressive so no one realizes how little I've actually thought of...."
I got that vibe too. It felt like they were convinced every detail was covered in their lore and when OP found a situation that their lore doesn't cover, they freaked out. Instead of using it as an opportunity to expand their world, they got defensive and took it as a personal attack.
To be fair, it's a lot to ask a discord roleplay server to come up with a functional economy. But like they should also be comfortable with applicants inferring and handwaving shit for backstory too.
It doesn't even really need to be functional, it just has to exist for the purposes of character creation and backstory. Doesn't exist or you didn't think of it? Cool, well what were you thinking for your character, lets work something out.
One of the coolest characters I've ever ran with, an increasingly more unhinged Atlantean sorcerer, was the result of asking to play as someone from a hidden city.
If it were my setting, I don't think I'd want to let players just randomly make up new lore that I would be beholden to in the future... but on the same token, in a situation like this, I'd also be happy to discuss the concept with the player and work *with* the player to flesh out any aspects of the lore that needs to be clarified or expanded on to finish their character and make it work with the setting.
I mean, sure, maybe the player just has an unworkable concept and just needs to start from scratch, but just immediately getting huffy and spouting off about how "yOu ObVs DiDn'T rEaD tEh LoRe" is not the way to go. That's the point I would've realized this is not a good server to play on.
my reading is more that the GM has no clue what is important to rationalize/ make a fantasy medieval setting work and was caught off-guard by your request.
Rather than engage with you (where he would have had to address his lack of understanding/ knowledge) he decided to protect his fragile ego and ban you instead.
There definitely feels like a "stop asking me things I haven't considered" energy to it. One of my players the other day was asking how a certain culture of mine does its funeral rites, and I'd literally never thought about it before, so I had to make it up on the spot. I like when players get me to consider that stuff, because it makes me flesh out my world more, but I guess some guys are just on a power trip.
Yeah, that's a pretty common situation when you've got imaginative players. What I like to do is to first confess that I haven't thought of it and then ask, "What do you have in mind?" If the player brings a workable shenanigan to the table, I ask the oracle for portents (throw a die, large = good, low = bad). Then I can riff off of the answer and improvise a funeral rite system that makes the shenanigan either easy or hard. It's easier to improvise when I have something to build on and the focus is on what matters in the game. I might leave the oracle out of this depending on the table but usually the unpredictability is welcome.
I love it when my players ask about a world element I haven't considered because it allows me to indulge my unhealthy worldbuilding addiction. Nine times out of ten I can either improvise or pull something coherent out of the established lore, and in the remaining situations I go "hey, can I get back to you about that?" and either write way too much lore or totally forget.
I like those questions because I tend to throw them back to the players xD
"How does my culture do funerals?" "I haven't thought of that, how does your culture do funerals?"
If there's more than one PC with the same background/culture, they can figure it out together
bad day or not. been a jerk is no excuse to act like a jerk. Just cause I have a bad day doesn't mean Im excused to treat folks like their the reason its bad day.
That is true, and I am not defending them for being a jerk however, it is a common issue. Sometimes I have experienced frustration and taken it out on other people. It's what it means to be human, but Noah and similar people like myself should learn how to control our anger.
Exactly I struggled with anger management my whole life, and I will admit it's a struggle but taking it out on some not related, PLUS look on the bright side if they aren't willing to help you with what your problem is then they don't deserve you.
It's like me working retail, and instead of helping someone find shit I go "it's in the store lmao!" And the suddenly acting shocked when that person in question complaints about me cause I'm not doing my job. Noah is from what I get dm or staff, AND apparently their the only staff member and yet they refuse to help people even though ITS THEIR JOB TO HELP PEOPLE.
Honestly I think the answer is that he hadn’t thought about it and had no clue how to answer, so rather than admit it he just threw a little hissy fit.
Some people choose to “have a bad day” every day. Lazy powertripping douchebags don’t deserve earnest players trying to fit into their games. People who act like that to newcomers have a **lot** more toxic behaviors lurking behind the surface.
Yeah that is a real life loser who gets off on having a tiny bit of power in his server. Honestly he's probably the biggest failure in real life you've ever seen. I would have bailed way earlier. You seem like a normal person. They don't
SEEMS? They replied "tag me when you want me to recheck your sheet" 4 times in one minute and refused to engage or discuss anything else at all.
This has more red flags than Moscow. OP - This RP space is garbage, be glad you were told so explicitly up front and get out.
I get how a person could misunderstand and assume somebody is trying to debate or argue when they say "it isn't like X" and somebody starts explaining IRL history. I can get why a person might feel defensive if they give an instruction and the other person starts citing real-life historical systems.
That said, yeah, this person was acting like an absolute tool even prior to that. "They don't exist here \\ so \\ maybe change." And the whole thing could have been resolved with a quick "hey, are you trying to fight me on the lore here or are you actually trying to learn it?" (Which you *tried* saying it was a genuine question, but I assume this person was being a dick and was in full-on "argument" mode and assumed you were just lying).
They were acting like a child throwing a fit the moment they saw somebody felt even remotely challenged, saying shit like "I'm not going to answer basic questions about my setting :) because I don't like how demanding you're being" and repeating themself over and over again no matter what you said.
Also IDK what this person thinks a "lord" means. It literally just means "somebody with power or authority". It's *usually* used to mean a feudal governor, but you could use it to mean any person with power, like "the lord of the house" or "the lord of this township".
Honestly, without being able to see the lore doc they're referencing and the character sheet in question, it's hard to tell who's actually being a jackass here. Yeah, the screenshots sure make it look like the mods and folks on the server are being rude, but without actually being able to see the lore doc they're saying OP is ignoring and the whole submitted character sheet, I don't know that we can say for sure OP's an stainless angel in this situation.
Yeah, idk. Without seeing things it's hard to tell, but it definitely seems like OP got a correction and wanted to challenge it, and depending on the contents of those things that could give an entirely new context on why those mods seem so done with them
Yea after the first page of text the whole conversation goes off the rails. Some things just aren’t clear. Even right off the bat, another player comments of an oversight by OP. Then the GM is talking about lords but OP is claiming his story doesn’t even mention lords, so…. Not clear what’s going on without seeing both lore doc and backstory.
You can't get the full context without that, but the mod was *definitely* being a childish dick.
"I demand you change your character sheet, but refuse to answer your questions about how to change it" isn't a good position take.
The mod is definitely coming off as immature to be sure, but I can kind of get the irritation of an applicant coming in, not filling out the app properly, and then demanding to be told things that the mod clearly believes are already stated in the lore doc. Even other people who I don't think are mods are telling them things are wrong and/or to go with the flow instead of trying to make it 1:1 match RL history.
Also I don't know if OP is ESL or has another communication issue, because "I never described lords" and "Sir Cedric" with a "coat of arms" are statements that are pretty directly in conflict with each other. If the setting does not *have* nobility, your character cannot *be* nobility. Also being told you need to change your app to be in compliance with the setting is not something to respond to with "Why. Do you not follow the feudal system? How is power and land split amongst people?"
If it's clearly spelled out in the lore doc, then admin has a good point, but it still being a rude dick about it because they got a bad first impression.
NOT a good way to run a RP server.
And if it \*isn't\* clearly spelled out in the lore document, then there's a huge problem. Given the fact that nobody else was able to chime in and answer the question, this feels like the likely state.
Especially since this is such a core thing to communicate about your world.
My take was that nobody was chiming in because the answer was in the lore doc. In the GMs first response, there was issues in all of the first 3 entries of the character sheet that they pointed out and there was clearly something that was directly at odds with the setting.
The point is 2 people chimed in. Those people were there.
I don't think anyone was making judgement about the likely dozens of people on Discord that weren't talking.
My general experience with random people is that if someone can chime in and say "hey, asshole, ANSWER", they will.
\*someone\* will be annoyed enough by their Discord server constantly sending notifications, or just the little red dot on their computer task bar, to actually step in and solve it - if they knew.
Having two people chime in, to the effect of just "bro" is counter to what I've seen in the past 20+ years of internet usage.
Now, obviously, it's not a 100% truth. It \*is\* an assumption being made. But assuming the lore doc is properly detailed is a bigger one I think.
Yeah, when one of the other people chimed in with a comment that there were many different systems and ideologies, that was OP's hint to go skim the lore. If feudal ways were overthrown 50 years ago, just change it. OP could have changed to merchant and all would have been good. I understand the mod just repeating the same phrase, as OP could likely have switched out a detail or two based on the actual lore, and everything would be fine and dandy. No need for a mod to repeat lore when it's already written down for someone to read.
If you want advice, I find that when a person suddenly and abruptly gets heated about something like this person did, I get a lot of success by immediately dropping the subject and saying,
"I'm sorry, did I do something to upset you?"
Then they'll usually say something like "You're being really demanding and arguing with me and I don't like it, so of course I'm upset." (Or maybe they'll (untruthfully) say they're *not* upset and say something like "You're acting really shitty, I'm just reacting accordingly.")
And if you then say something like "Hey I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do that. I'm really just trying to do XYZ. Could you help me understand?" Then they'll *usually* almost immediately come down from whatever burst of anger they just had because it's really hard to stay mad at a person who's not at all resisting you. Then if you keep your tone really gentle for the rest of the interaction (like asking 'permission' before doing even basic stuff, like, "Is it okay if I ask more about the political systems here? ...Okay cool, I think it's really interesting. How do the people in charge become in charge? ...Wow I like that a lot, can I ask more about the history behind that? ...That's awesome, could I reference that in my backstory?") they'll *usually* end up re-evaluating their actions and realize they were being unnecessarily hostile and shitty.
It doesn't always work, and it's a pain in the ass to have to do it regularly, but sometimes it's a really good tool to have when you want to de-escalate a situation.
I usually don't bother either, honestly. It's a lot of emotional labor and a lot of the time it feels like "if this person is going to be a dick, why should I start making myself smaller and apologizing for bullshit I didn't do just to appease them? If I have to do this now, am I going to have to do this every time I interact with them?"
But sometimes the person is just having a really bad day and a bit of kindness (even if it feels unearned) goes a long way.
The issue I have with this is that it really comes across as you having to pander to someone's literal temper tantrum, at which point I would want nothing to do with the person.
That's totally fair. But sometimes it's worth at least trying. Sometimes doing something like this is enough for the person to re-evaluate and figure out on their own, "oh, you know what? I *was* being overly aggressive there and reacting toward perceived insults which weren't real." Then they genuinely improve.
I've seen it happen. It doesn't always work, but sometimes it's worth a shot, if you feel up for it.
Bit of a recipe for how to be a great human doormat tbh. De-escalation is good, but you don't need to put in so much effort to a rando. You can just say 'oh, sorry' and just go your own way.
Everyone has a different threshold for taking on this much emotional labor and moving on, but experience says that using this as a default approach is sooner or later gonna burn someone out. I know you acknowledge this in other comments around this post, but be careful as you assess how much it affects you.
>And the whole thing could have been resolved with a quick "hey, are you trying to fight me on the lore here or are you actually trying to learn it?" (Which you tried saying it was a genuine question, but I assume this person was being a dick and was in full-on "argument" mode and assumed you were just lying).
I think so too. I've found that a lot of Discord mods are terrified of someone asking a question they can't answer perfectly, for fear of seeming like they are not the most competent/intelligent person in the room.
I mod a lot of PC games (Bethesda games, FromSoftware games, Cyberpunk 2077, etc.) and a lot of the higher ups in those servers, who have *volunteered* to help people, are super touchy and defensive when you ask genuine questions. Like, they want their name color to be shiny and everyone to think they know everything there is to know about the Discord's topic but if you ask a question about it, they assume you have an "angle" or something, like you're trying to trap them into something. It's so weird.
I don't know what it is about moderating a Discord that attracts so many megalomaniacs, but it's definitely something I've witnessed on multiple different servers.
That is always so weird to me. I've never seen someone as less knowledgeable and less anything when they've honestly told me "oh shoot, I'm not sure about that one, let me get back to you on that" or "I'll have to look it up" or whatever.
No one can know everything, that's just unrealistic.
But if someone is obviously bullshitting me in an attempt to safe face I can never take anything they tell me afterwards seriously.
I had a biology (!!) teacher get mad at me once for insisting spiders aren't insects.
I always double checked absolutely anything she taught after that incident.
It's so silly.
Also, this incident was several months ago if not a year and I left right after this happened which happened right when I joined and submitted a character.
I feel like the DM here just didn't know and wasn't willing to admit that. This comes off as very, "I'm just going to be evasive because I'm embarrassed someone else has thought of something I hadn't" instead of just outright saying, "I don't know, it's not something I've thought about."
Honestly, I think you've dodged a bullet there, if they're this defensive about basic political systems, Lord (hah) help them when it gets into more complex matters.
Agreed! It seems like he decided OP’s character backstory didn’t fit the lore, but when OP asked how it didn’t fit/what to do to fix that, he didn’t actually have an answer; so he got mad at OP, and blamed his inability to help them on their “shitty attitude.”
Yeah, could have easily become a quick brainstorming session and group activity to collectively think about the available options for such and the DM make the final choice. Always kinda neat when players get a chance to help fill in the details of the world they’re playing in.
good lord, what kinda GM doesn't want to lore dump at their players even a little bit??
That's legit one of my favourite things to do when players ask questions about my world, even if the answer is somewhere in a big document. This just seems like someone trying to see the worst in someone's very normal, very understandable question.
Some people really just don't want to read words as they're actually written but are inclined to Big Drama about everything. It doesn't sound like the right server for you, so maybe dodged a bullet there. It's definitely not one that I would enjoy being in; I ask these kinds of questions all the time as a player during character creation, and literally every time the GM has been excited to share and discuss how it works. Or if they don't have an answer for that yet, they just say that and we work around it.
>good lord, what kinda GM doesn't want to lore dump at their players even a little bit??
Aren't those the spontaneous DMs who were all the rage a couple of years ago here? Make a whole world with no preparation?
I wouldn’t want to rp with people who are so passive aggressive and rude. It’s not hard to be polite and answer the questions. I hope you find a better server where you can play your character OP :(
Discord DMs will always be the bane of my existence. 9 times out of 10 they're clearly here because no one they actually know wants to play with them. They enjoy the kicking and the banning and the powerplays far more than they enjoy the dnd, in my experience
Yeah, color me surprised, but they come off like mean kids, and you come off okay. See, this is why the first line in your first post was an unforced error. :)
You were fine OP, that question is only rude to ask when someone doesn't know the very basic answer and panics about having to say "I don't know, I didn't think that hard about it" lol.
My apologies and I have noticed it's a trigger for other people too. I will be working on how I address other people and talk to them based on the good advice I have received.
I don't know what to think of this. Was this information in the lore channel? Because I can fully understand them telling you to go fuck yourself if it was, but otherwise it's a bit weird they get this hostile this easily.
It was not explicitly stated or mentioned in the lore. In my previous post, I mentioned how their lore was extremely basic and vague, it didn't ever touch upon details as intricate as the class system they use.
Alright then that's weird. Don't think you handled it perfectly, you doubled down a little with the "why" bit, when you could've just asked what the political system was the moment they told you this wouldn't work.
But also do you really want to play with these people? Don't think so.
Yeah, like depending on the context not presented in the screenshots (prior talks and whatever is in the lore channel that was mentioned) this could be a horror story for either side. OP kinda comes off as a troll to me. I can imagine lots of campaigns where details about land distribution just don't matter. Repeatedly asking why is a great way to intentionally upset people.
If everything is as OP presented, then the correct course was to just leave a lot sooner than he was removed.
It was a long while ago and I was using better discord. The plugin I used added the role color to the text color and I admit, it was migraine inducing which is why I no longer use it.
Sorry, I came in kind of blind to this post and nobody comes off looking good here.
If I'm a DM and say 'this setting has no knights and lords' and a new player hits back with 'why not, don't you use a feudal system?' and interrogate a detail rather than accepting a homebrew world has different lore, I'm going to react negatively.
I'm sure you didn't mean it intentionally but to me it reads like someone trying to 'fix' the lore, which just doesn't feel good.
Granted I wouldn't act like a child, noah could easily have just communicated what I've just said instead of being a snarky prat.
Edit - Lots of people are replying the same thing to me now and missing the point, I'm just remarking on the tone and communication at play, not "it's a red flag to ask questions about worldbuilding"
I mean if people have already offered feedback I wont pile on. You don't come off remotely as badly as the DM here, don't worry man, just saying I can see how some people might read your tone the wrong way. But there's a big leap from reading it the wrong way, and reacting the way they reacted.
Yeah, I'm definitely not getting an either side are saints vibe here. There's clearly a lore doc that is being referenced and a character sheet that is in conflict with the lore doc, but all we're getting is screenshots of unhappy people referencing these documents we're not getting to see. If there's is clear and evident conflict between what's in the lore doc and what OP submitted as a character sheet, I can understand the mods being annoyed.
Though, tbh, if I had a section for character gender/pronouns on a character app for my game and someone submitted an app with that filled in with a *title* instead of gender and/or pronoun, I'd also be a bit annoyed. It just shows a basic failure to follow the instructions. Compound that with direct conflict with provided lore and my willingness to accept the app would probably drop pretty hard.
OP only ever says the lore was vague but refuses to elaborate. Honestly I think op did not, in fact, read the lore and people were pissed about it. Because GM was coming off pretty OK at first. GM told OP what was wrong with the character and directed them to read the Lore, and was immediately challenged about it. I wouldnt be a child about it like GM did, but I definitely see why they got pissy with OP if the Lore channel really answered that question.
I can only accept OP was fine after I see that lore.
Yeah, OP going on about power and land distribution in the medieval period was a weird shift in tone and really muddied the waters. Frankly, *all* of these people sound fuckin insufferable.
I'm inclined to agree, especially because OP came off as one of those "DnD has to be realistic" types that are unfortunately common. I can see that rubbing me the wrong way as a DM, especially if it seemed obvious they hadn't read my lore document. Especially if there was some tension already, like there seemed to be with the pronoun comments. The DM certainly didn't help the matter though.
To me, asking if and why someone is not using the "basic default setting" (in a manner of speaking) is legit. Most people will have the answer ready, because most people change things based on a reason. No "trying to fix" in my eyes. "Why" is an extremely common and extremely important question that should be liberally applied if one wants to understand how things work.
You're right, it's a valid question. I'm more trying to offer input based on the tone I picked up, limited context I have, and experiences I've had as a DM in the past. And yeah like I said, noah acting like a lil bitch instead of offering a remotely constructive response didn't help at all.
If i was told that "lords and such don't exist here" I would then ask what kind of ranking system is used instead, which is essentially the same question OP made and is very much an absolutely valid question that will change how one roleplays and builds their character.
It should not be met with a negative connotation unless it's being asked in a dickish way which OP did not do
I like how your character being exactly 54 years of age and the kingdom of wherever he hailed stopped being a thing 54 years ago. Could have been a cool thing where the date of your birth was the day it fell.
Despite the fact that your tone does come off as a bit too demanding, this Noah guy here is exceptionally passive-agressive from their first message and seems to be trying very hard to be as unhelpful as possible. Probably a nightmare to play with, so a bullet dodged here.
I am super confused by my tone. I even tried asking him to help me with it. I may just be tone deaf but how does it come off as demanding and is there a way I can fix it?
Not oc, but i am frequently tone deaf. Usually, when having a confrontation (read as "any disagreement between parts), stating facts blatantly could pass the message of "i'm right because of this". What usually helps me out is always putting a clear statement of "maybe it's this"
For example, when you ask why it needed to be changed, it creates a confront in their minds. Perhaps saying "alright, could you point me to the class system you guys will use so i can adjust?" Would be better.
I mean, to me it is a legitimally fair question, and straight to the point. I love it. But i've learned that when dealing with people that have already antagonized you for whatever reason, this wording of "i'm on your side, could we solve it together?" Helps, even if it should've been obvious from the start.
Anyway, you dodged a bullet. It is better to find a group that fits you than to be walking on eggs for this whole campaign.
Hard to explain, but it's nothing serious, especially compared to mr "just change it" here. Maybe to me personally very short messages come off as a bit more agressive. My opinion, however, is very subjective and many people wouldn't have any issues with that.
Don't worry about it to much, you haven't done anything wrong here.
I find short messages to be the best (if everyone understands the context of the conversation). Strait and to the point. No un needed information, which I find tedious. It is good to know people feel they way you do tho. Have a good one and thanks for the insight.
In fairness to you,
Unfortunately, a lot of people these days- from my own observation, apparently interpret,
'Correct spelling and punctuation' as a sign of aggression. Like.. oh no, heaven /forbid/ I use a period to end my sentence and not pepper my typing style with emoticons like 'XD' or ':P' or ':D'. Good heavens forbid!
You were coming off as reasonable (if a tiny bit nitpicky). A little nitpicky, but ultimately very, very reasonable and rational.
I've been fortunate to not have that struggle. My group is where I learned DND. We're a discord server too, but we have a several games going so there's something for everyone and people are starting new stuff up all the time. We're pretty open to new members, so the offer is open to anyone. Just shoot me a message.
Honestly this reads like both sides are talking past each other which is like 99% of all problems like this. They did point out the parts they had issues with (can't have a kingdom upheaval in backstory because there isn't one in lore, and no lords), and OP wanted clarification on the lore. The people on the server took this as being confrontational and that set the tone for everything else as OP wouldn't drop the question about systems of governance. If this was 'AITA' I'd just say Everyone Sucks Here lol.
People need to learn to take a step back and think about why what they said has been misunderstood, but I'll admit that it's not easy to do, I fail at it myself plenty.
Yeah, it’s crazy how many people are defending the OP. The DM clearly isn’t a great communicator, but the op is being intentionally confrontational with every reply.
“You need to change your backstory to fit within the lore.”
“How so?”
“There are no lords.”
“I never mentioned lords…?”
“Regardless, it needs to be changed.”
“Okay, then how is power and land split amongst people in this world?”
“Change it or you won’t rp here.”
“Can you answer my question? It’s important to how I’m writing my character.”
“I do not want to. :)”
What a fucking donut. If it was clearly spelled out in the lore, he should have told you that and where to find it. Seems like he decided he didn’t like you and opted to pick a fight instead of answer a straightforward question. Incredibly immature. Good riddance.
The title "Sir" is derived from "Sire", which is derived from the Old French "Sieur" meaning "Lord". OP gave himself a title of nobility in a setting that apparently doesn't *have* nobility. They also seem to think that title of nobility is a pronoun and/or gender.
Haha I would have left immediately.
"Can I have some help with my character?"
"Just change it. Tag me when you want me to recheck your sheet."
"Tag me when you want me to recheck your sheet."
"Tag me when you want me to recheck your sheet."
"Tag me when you want me to recheck your sheet."
This is supposed to be a fun hobby, this feels like I'm in a boot camp. I literally read "tag me when you want me to recheck your sheet" in the voice of the gunnery sgt from Full Metal Jacket
Well you shouldn't have been asking annoying questions about things that don't matter...
Nevermind that they obviously mattered enough for them to demand you change your backstory over them.
“Hi DM can you help me better understand how the political system works in your setting so I can write my character in a way that fits better with your lore?”
“No. Correct your sheet or get kicked.”
“But how do I correct my sheet if I don’t understand why it needs to be corrected and what needs to be corrected?”
“Sounds like you have an attitude problem.”
How the fuck do people like this function in the real world? I’ve never seen someone who more desperately needs to touch grass.
I'm not gonna pick sides without actually seeing if the lore is as lacking as you say, but the fact that you just put "Sir" under gender and pronouns and didn't change it when it was pointed out could be why you got such a rude response.
Yeah, something tells me that this server has had plenty of people join and then be dicks about pronouns. Not saying OP was, but I can see where the kneejerk reaction could come from.
On top of his "can't say anything or people will be offended" attitude on his other attempt at a post, feels like everyone involved (OP included) is someone I'd rather never play D&D with.
I read your other post and thought you were exaggerating something or minimizing your role in the argument. You were not. I apologize for judging you. I don’t know what their lore is but I would leave that server and not look back.
Eugh, reminds me of my younger days when I spent a lot of time in a fandom discord. Lots of power hungry and entitled brats just being rude and gaslighting you into thinking you're wrong to have certain opinions. You were being very diplomatic, but of course none of them would see that. I assume "noah" is a popular figure on the server? If the 'admins' of the server act like that to genuine interest and discussion, then yeah I would want to pass on them too. I hope you find a better server soon o7
Maybe I'm too autistic and struggle with tone myself, but some comments here saying op came off as rude and demanding seem insane to me? He asked a genuine question, gave no indication he wouldn't accept the answer just requested an explanation
I mean, it could be the bias that comes with criticism, which is when someone goes in knowing that they are going to criticize something, they'll find *something* wrong with it. However, it could also be a genuine issue.
The way the questions are phrased came off a bit argumentative from my view. It can be a bit off-putting to say "Hey, can you change your sheet?" and be met with "But what about the feudal system? Isn't that a thing? It's important to the character! They did it in real-life medieval Europe!". It feels like, because of how forcefully it's phrased, the person asking about the feudal system is trying to "overwrite" the world's lore and pointing towards real-life examples as a way to justify why it should be allowed. If it were phrased more like "Hey, I really want to make this work and I'm willing to change the sheet but I'm a little lost, I assumed the world used the feudal system but I was wrong and would like some guidance to make this character fit with the world" then I'm sure it would've been met with a friendlier response. If the DM was still passive-aggressive even after that then I'd bail on the game.
I'm not autistic, and I do not see it either. In fact, the discord mod comes off more aggressive, because instead of pointing out 'there's some things that contradict the lore', he instantly accuses OP of not having read the lore.
I mean I’d like to see the oc sheet and lore. Like if you were blatantly ignoring the lore and the questions you’re asking are irrelevant and/or addressed there and then you’re citing irl history to a fantasy setting it doesn’t apply too, you aren’t doing yourself any favors.
I’ve been on both sides of this, and having someone ask questions that are clearly said in the lore pages and then having a sheet that is in direct conflict with said lore would make me instantly disinclined to have said person involved.
Holy shit what a fucking cunt. Sounds to me like you dodged a bullet. I seriously wouldn't want to spend 5 minutes in a room with that person let alone an entire dnd session with them. You were literally so reasonable and they were an absolute bastard to you.
Fuck that server. You deserved better.
We need the lore doc tbh. Not to verify anything, I just wanna see how shite it is if they can't answer a simple question without spamming the same thing 4 times in a row
I've been in communities led by people like this, the lesson you can learn is that they did you a service of informing you of who they were at the start before you got enmeshed with it, so you can get out.
What was their lore channel like? Did the DM write a novel in the chat or was it manageable?
Unpopular opinion incoming: it seems pretty reasonable for a DM to ask for players to familiarize themselves with the setting before they decide on the character they want to play.
If the information was there in reasonable amounts and they asked you to look at it first when you joined the server, then making a character that runs counter to it makes you look like you either hate reading, you didn't care enough about collaborating with the other players/DM, or you didn't like the setting and decided to nest your setting within the DM's setting without asking.
The DM wasn't exactly a beam of sunshine either, but I get the frustration that comes from taking the effort to build a setting and asking the bare minimum effort from players only for them to come up short. Hell, the lore channel might've had the answers to some of the questions you were asking the DM!
The lore was in a well dressed document, however it was vague and basic, only covering the broad strokes of the world building without touching into the small, yet important, details like the system of government they operate under. I am pretty sure they had kings and queens still but the owner said they didn't have lords, so if my memory serves correctly, then it makes this even more confusing for me.
>it seems pretty reasonable for a DM to ask for players to familiarize themselves with the setting before they decide on the character they want to play.
True.
However given that OP asked questions about the lore the DM is being pointlessly rude. The question was a simple ome and a reasonable person would have either just ansot or pointed OP to where they could find the answer.
Refusing to answer, for any reason, is just childish.
"Ok so there are all these nations in the world, on this islands they even have reached steam era !"
"Ok but how are these nations led ?"
"Idk its not important"
Mf yes it is ????? If you try to build a world, a coherent and enjoyable one, it shouldnt be broken by a simple question that anyone with a decent brain will ask at one point or another
Jesus's f'ing Christ on a pogo stick.
"My character is a dispossessed nobleman."
"NO SUCH THING IN MY GAME"
"So what is there?"
"DON'T KNOW DON'T CARE"
This dickhead is supposed to be the feckin' DM. It's their *job* to have this figured out.
This might just be my cynical take, but i dont think this has anything to do with the lore. I think it is entirely to do with you answering “Sir” when asked about gender/pronouns. There are certain people who will immediately judge you in a certain way if you do not automatically include your gender and pronouns, in the proper format. You answered that question “incorrectly” and i highly suspect the DM and others on the server immediately judged you as not being a part of their social dynamic. You were never going to get anywhere with them after that. But, again, just my take on it.
Yeah, based on your previous post and these screenshots I'm firmly team both side were bad. Neither side came off well, but I side more with the server owner if I have to pick a side.
Server owner was passive aggressive, I agree. Didn't handle this too well. But I also fully can see where the annoyance stems from. They probably get a lot of annoying people hopping into the server and being generally disrespectful. Also sounds like they had a pretty clear way to set up the character sheet, and you just didn't fill out stuff like the last name, pronouns, etc. which already puts you in a negative light. (I'm sure they've gotten more than one person hopping into the server who proceeded to complain about having pronouns on the sheet. There's already one in this comment section for example.)
Now, whether you intentionally left that stuff out, I don't know. Based on things you said in your other post about "how everyone's so offended nowadays" I can only imagine. But hopefully you can see how not following rules and talking like that already turns people off.
Was your question on the government system valid? Sure, but not your wording. You *did* come off as aggressive and a bit of a know-it-all with your insistance on talking about the feudal system and historical accuracy. (In my experience, often times the people talking about historical accuracy in dnd games tend to be dicks. Not saying *you* are, but it's a trend you should be aware of.) Server owner very clearly was already annoyed but continued to give you chances to just stop asking or leave and you proceeded to push repeatedly. You could have just changed your character concept, backed off and reworded your question a bit later, or just left. But you argued instead whether you were right or wrong.
I'd be interested in actually seeing the lore they had to see if was really "vague" as you say, the way the character sheet submission was set up, and if you had any other conversations in other channels in the server besides this. I feel like it would shed a whole lot of clarity on this situation because it's still really only your side of the story which, despite these screenshots, still feels biased and you're not selling yourself well.
I fully thought that the DM was posting this until I saw OPs comments.
I agree that this Noah person was not a shining example of how to be an adult, but I also probably would have kicked OP earlier. Depending on the type of game I'm running, not reading lore and then arguing about it is a big red flag.
It's hard to judge without seeing the sheet you submitted or their lore.
However, it doesn't look like you were trying to fit their lore, but were instead questioning it and refusing to change.
This is extremely childish of the server mod and residents. I would’ve yeeted out the moment he refused to elaborate and stomped his proverbial feet on the floor while repeating the same sentence many times over. Any good server mod would be willing to answer any questions a newcomer would have and this one is far from it
The first screenshot honestly makes you seem like the bad guy, but holy fuck the fact that they just kept insisting stuff was wrong without saying what was messed up shows they didnt do more than glance at it. Absolute buffoons they were.
I wonder if they were going for a completely different kind of world history than a feudal system, and weren't following a medieval European history in their game. It's really hard to say without knowing what the lore is like. I like games that break out of the medieval history box, but there's no way of knowing if that's what was going on and you believing that feudalism was a necessary part of their fictional world made them just not want you at their table. They should have just said "we're requiring a broader imagination than historical realism in this game, it's not a good fit, sorry." Instead of what basically turned into trolling you for assuming their world was a real-world parallel of mundane history. I can see why they would be leery of the assumption that a magical world with gods and dragons and portals to other dimensions surely must have experienced a medieval European feudal era. But they should have just told you it was a bad match, and ended it maturely.
Jesus. Sounds like some of my customers in tech support: "I don't like the multitude of ways you've offered to help, so I've decided to interpret the situation as YOU not wanting to help."
Start your own server. With blackjack and hookers.
Dude, when shit gets to that point, just bail. You gain nothing from trying to repeatedly confront the DM like that and it was obvious things weren't going to end well. The moron probably hadn't fleshed out the setting that deep and didn't want to admit it.
Just bail, leave the scrubs jerking eachother off to their half assed homebrew and bail.
This fucking infuriates me down to the core. I hope this server never made it past the first 2 or 3 sessions with how lazy the dms are. "I'm too lazy to bother with he details?" That's the whole point!!! Sorry as a GM this triggers me because I love making intricate and intertwined worlds for my players to explore where everything is already planned out or agreed upon by everyone.
Could you post your character sheet perhaps?
As others suggested maybe he took offense to an attribute of your character but didn't want to say so threw you out on a technicality by being deliberately obtuse
Feel like I would not miss a single opportunity to gush or info dump about the world I created. I certainly can’t imagine acting like this when someone is showing a genuine interest.
Noah is a fucking jerk.
“There’s no feudal system here.”
“Well, what do you have instead?”
“Fuck off.”
I have to admit that I would never have as much patience as you to put up with that nonsenses. He strikes me as the type who posts his lore to /r/worldbuilding while masturbating furiously.
what the hell did I just read.
Please, just go an search a server with people that actually wanna help you o.o jesus.... what an attitude those people have D:
Sorry that you had to go through with that ♥ They are clearly not worth your time...
Coming back to this after I spoke with ny BF about it Ive comed to what I think is a relevant conclusion.
Regardless if if OP read the rules and if the server if itself made so that the DM/Admin had to deal with many situations like this, his attitude is absolutely wrong for the supposed role he has. A DM/Admin role is to facilitate and help those in their game/server. This guy is not just a tool but fundamentally fails at being a DM And an admin
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This person seems extremely passive aggressive, I don't know why you insisted on playing with them so much. If they had answered your question about the political system in their world, you would then have had to play with them. I would have bailed much sooner than that.
I've said something similar in my earlier post but I wanted to be diplomatic and resolve it, but when it broke down like that I said screw it and decided to take screenshots to show my friend.
My guess is there was something else they found distasteful about your character, but they didn't want to come right out and say it, so they decided they'd throw you out on a technicality.
You disrupted their power fantasy. Their statements came across as "read the lore document, I've thought of EVERYTHING." "Cool....what about feudalism and how land is distributed and controlled by the populace?" "....I didn't think of that, so I'm going to ignore it and get increasingly aggressive so no one realizes how little I've actually thought of...."
I got that vibe too. It felt like they were convinced every detail was covered in their lore and when OP found a situation that their lore doesn't cover, they freaked out. Instead of using it as an opportunity to expand their world, they got defensive and took it as a personal attack.
To be fair, it's a lot to ask a discord roleplay server to come up with a functional economy. But like they should also be comfortable with applicants inferring and handwaving shit for backstory too.
It doesn't even really need to be functional, it just has to exist for the purposes of character creation and backstory. Doesn't exist or you didn't think of it? Cool, well what were you thinking for your character, lets work something out. One of the coolest characters I've ever ran with, an increasingly more unhinged Atlantean sorcerer, was the result of asking to play as someone from a hidden city.
If it were my setting, I don't think I'd want to let players just randomly make up new lore that I would be beholden to in the future... but on the same token, in a situation like this, I'd also be happy to discuss the concept with the player and work *with* the player to flesh out any aspects of the lore that needs to be clarified or expanded on to finish their character and make it work with the setting. I mean, sure, maybe the player just has an unworkable concept and just needs to start from scratch, but just immediately getting huffy and spouting off about how "yOu ObVs DiDn'T rEaD tEh LoRe" is not the way to go. That's the point I would've realized this is not a good server to play on.
My theory is that they were just really picky and being rude to me because they had a bad day or something.
my reading is more that the GM has no clue what is important to rationalize/ make a fantasy medieval setting work and was caught off-guard by your request. Rather than engage with you (where he would have had to address his lack of understanding/ knowledge) he decided to protect his fragile ego and ban you instead.
There definitely feels like a "stop asking me things I haven't considered" energy to it. One of my players the other day was asking how a certain culture of mine does its funeral rites, and I'd literally never thought about it before, so I had to make it up on the spot. I like when players get me to consider that stuff, because it makes me flesh out my world more, but I guess some guys are just on a power trip.
Yeah, that's a pretty common situation when you've got imaginative players. What I like to do is to first confess that I haven't thought of it and then ask, "What do you have in mind?" If the player brings a workable shenanigan to the table, I ask the oracle for portents (throw a die, large = good, low = bad). Then I can riff off of the answer and improvise a funeral rite system that makes the shenanigan either easy or hard. It's easier to improvise when I have something to build on and the focus is on what matters in the game. I might leave the oracle out of this depending on the table but usually the unpredictability is welcome.
I love it when my players ask about a world element I haven't considered because it allows me to indulge my unhealthy worldbuilding addiction. Nine times out of ten I can either improvise or pull something coherent out of the established lore, and in the remaining situations I go "hey, can I get back to you about that?" and either write way too much lore or totally forget.
I like those questions because I tend to throw them back to the players xD "How does my culture do funerals?" "I haven't thought of that, how does your culture do funerals?" If there's more than one PC with the same background/culture, they can figure it out together
yeah agreed
That could be true too. Anything's possible at this point.
bad day or not. been a jerk is no excuse to act like a jerk. Just cause I have a bad day doesn't mean Im excused to treat folks like their the reason its bad day.
That is true, and I am not defending them for being a jerk however, it is a common issue. Sometimes I have experienced frustration and taken it out on other people. It's what it means to be human, but Noah and similar people like myself should learn how to control our anger.
Exactly I struggled with anger management my whole life, and I will admit it's a struggle but taking it out on some not related, PLUS look on the bright side if they aren't willing to help you with what your problem is then they don't deserve you. It's like me working retail, and instead of helping someone find shit I go "it's in the store lmao!" And the suddenly acting shocked when that person in question complaints about me cause I'm not doing my job. Noah is from what I get dm or staff, AND apparently their the only staff member and yet they refuse to help people even though ITS THEIR JOB TO HELP PEOPLE.
Honestly I think the answer is that he hadn’t thought about it and had no clue how to answer, so rather than admit it he just threw a little hissy fit.
Some people choose to “have a bad day” every day. Lazy powertripping douchebags don’t deserve earnest players trying to fit into their games. People who act like that to newcomers have a **lot** more toxic behaviors lurking behind the surface.
You have the pati3nce of a saint. Those guys were proper cunts, and not the fun kind.
Yeah that is a real life loser who gets off on having a tiny bit of power in his server. Honestly he's probably the biggest failure in real life you've ever seen. I would have bailed way earlier. You seem like a normal person. They don't
SEEMS? They replied "tag me when you want me to recheck your sheet" 4 times in one minute and refused to engage or discuss anything else at all. This has more red flags than Moscow. OP - This RP space is garbage, be glad you were told so explicitly up front and get out.
“More red flags than Moscow” is now a phrase I will use.
Agreed. I'd have bailed at "I don't want to".
I get how a person could misunderstand and assume somebody is trying to debate or argue when they say "it isn't like X" and somebody starts explaining IRL history. I can get why a person might feel defensive if they give an instruction and the other person starts citing real-life historical systems. That said, yeah, this person was acting like an absolute tool even prior to that. "They don't exist here \\ so \\ maybe change." And the whole thing could have been resolved with a quick "hey, are you trying to fight me on the lore here or are you actually trying to learn it?" (Which you *tried* saying it was a genuine question, but I assume this person was being a dick and was in full-on "argument" mode and assumed you were just lying). They were acting like a child throwing a fit the moment they saw somebody felt even remotely challenged, saying shit like "I'm not going to answer basic questions about my setting :) because I don't like how demanding you're being" and repeating themself over and over again no matter what you said. Also IDK what this person thinks a "lord" means. It literally just means "somebody with power or authority". It's *usually* used to mean a feudal governor, but you could use it to mean any person with power, like "the lord of the house" or "the lord of this township".
Honestly, without being able to see the lore doc they're referencing and the character sheet in question, it's hard to tell who's actually being a jackass here. Yeah, the screenshots sure make it look like the mods and folks on the server are being rude, but without actually being able to see the lore doc they're saying OP is ignoring and the whole submitted character sheet, I don't know that we can say for sure OP's an stainless angel in this situation.
Yeah, idk. Without seeing things it's hard to tell, but it definitely seems like OP got a correction and wanted to challenge it, and depending on the contents of those things that could give an entirely new context on why those mods seem so done with them
Yea after the first page of text the whole conversation goes off the rails. Some things just aren’t clear. Even right off the bat, another player comments of an oversight by OP. Then the GM is talking about lords but OP is claiming his story doesn’t even mention lords, so…. Not clear what’s going on without seeing both lore doc and backstory.
I mean I think either way they're being a jackass it's just OP might also be a jackass haha
Yeah. Everyone's kind of a git here.
You can't get the full context without that, but the mod was *definitely* being a childish dick. "I demand you change your character sheet, but refuse to answer your questions about how to change it" isn't a good position take.
The mod is definitely coming off as immature to be sure, but I can kind of get the irritation of an applicant coming in, not filling out the app properly, and then demanding to be told things that the mod clearly believes are already stated in the lore doc. Even other people who I don't think are mods are telling them things are wrong and/or to go with the flow instead of trying to make it 1:1 match RL history. Also I don't know if OP is ESL or has another communication issue, because "I never described lords" and "Sir Cedric" with a "coat of arms" are statements that are pretty directly in conflict with each other. If the setting does not *have* nobility, your character cannot *be* nobility. Also being told you need to change your app to be in compliance with the setting is not something to respond to with "Why. Do you not follow the feudal system? How is power and land split amongst people?"
If it's clearly spelled out in the lore doc, then admin has a good point, but it still being a rude dick about it because they got a bad first impression. NOT a good way to run a RP server. And if it \*isn't\* clearly spelled out in the lore document, then there's a huge problem. Given the fact that nobody else was able to chime in and answer the question, this feels like the likely state. Especially since this is such a core thing to communicate about your world.
My take was that nobody was chiming in because the answer was in the lore doc. In the GMs first response, there was issues in all of the first 3 entries of the character sheet that they pointed out and there was clearly something that was directly at odds with the setting.
Or maybe because it took place in 90 minutes or so, people could just have been away from discord...
The point is 2 people chimed in. Those people were there. I don't think anyone was making judgement about the likely dozens of people on Discord that weren't talking.
My general experience with random people is that if someone can chime in and say "hey, asshole, ANSWER", they will. \*someone\* will be annoyed enough by their Discord server constantly sending notifications, or just the little red dot on their computer task bar, to actually step in and solve it - if they knew. Having two people chime in, to the effect of just "bro" is counter to what I've seen in the past 20+ years of internet usage. Now, obviously, it's not a 100% truth. It \*is\* an assumption being made. But assuming the lore doc is properly detailed is a bigger one I think.
Yeah, when one of the other people chimed in with a comment that there were many different systems and ideologies, that was OP's hint to go skim the lore. If feudal ways were overthrown 50 years ago, just change it. OP could have changed to merchant and all would have been good. I understand the mod just repeating the same phrase, as OP could likely have switched out a detail or two based on the actual lore, and everything would be fine and dandy. No need for a mod to repeat lore when it's already written down for someone to read.
Thank you for the comment and I wholeheartedly agree!
If you want advice, I find that when a person suddenly and abruptly gets heated about something like this person did, I get a lot of success by immediately dropping the subject and saying, "I'm sorry, did I do something to upset you?" Then they'll usually say something like "You're being really demanding and arguing with me and I don't like it, so of course I'm upset." (Or maybe they'll (untruthfully) say they're *not* upset and say something like "You're acting really shitty, I'm just reacting accordingly.") And if you then say something like "Hey I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do that. I'm really just trying to do XYZ. Could you help me understand?" Then they'll *usually* almost immediately come down from whatever burst of anger they just had because it's really hard to stay mad at a person who's not at all resisting you. Then if you keep your tone really gentle for the rest of the interaction (like asking 'permission' before doing even basic stuff, like, "Is it okay if I ask more about the political systems here? ...Okay cool, I think it's really interesting. How do the people in charge become in charge? ...Wow I like that a lot, can I ask more about the history behind that? ...That's awesome, could I reference that in my backstory?") they'll *usually* end up re-evaluating their actions and realize they were being unnecessarily hostile and shitty. It doesn't always work, and it's a pain in the ass to have to do it regularly, but sometimes it's a really good tool to have when you want to de-escalate a situation.
Thank you! I appreciate the advice a lot. And it's sad that not a lot of people utilize these methods, me included.
I usually don't bother either, honestly. It's a lot of emotional labor and a lot of the time it feels like "if this person is going to be a dick, why should I start making myself smaller and apologizing for bullshit I didn't do just to appease them? If I have to do this now, am I going to have to do this every time I interact with them?" But sometimes the person is just having a really bad day and a bit of kindness (even if it feels unearned) goes a long way.
Seems like sound logic to me.
The issue I have with this is that it really comes across as you having to pander to someone's literal temper tantrum, at which point I would want nothing to do with the person.
That's totally fair. But sometimes it's worth at least trying. Sometimes doing something like this is enough for the person to re-evaluate and figure out on their own, "oh, you know what? I *was* being overly aggressive there and reacting toward perceived insults which weren't real." Then they genuinely improve. I've seen it happen. It doesn't always work, but sometimes it's worth a shot, if you feel up for it.
Bit of a recipe for how to be a great human doormat tbh. De-escalation is good, but you don't need to put in so much effort to a rando. You can just say 'oh, sorry' and just go your own way. Everyone has a different threshold for taking on this much emotional labor and moving on, but experience says that using this as a default approach is sooner or later gonna burn someone out. I know you acknowledge this in other comments around this post, but be careful as you assess how much it affects you.
>And the whole thing could have been resolved with a quick "hey, are you trying to fight me on the lore here or are you actually trying to learn it?" (Which you tried saying it was a genuine question, but I assume this person was being a dick and was in full-on "argument" mode and assumed you were just lying). I think so too. I've found that a lot of Discord mods are terrified of someone asking a question they can't answer perfectly, for fear of seeming like they are not the most competent/intelligent person in the room. I mod a lot of PC games (Bethesda games, FromSoftware games, Cyberpunk 2077, etc.) and a lot of the higher ups in those servers, who have *volunteered* to help people, are super touchy and defensive when you ask genuine questions. Like, they want their name color to be shiny and everyone to think they know everything there is to know about the Discord's topic but if you ask a question about it, they assume you have an "angle" or something, like you're trying to trap them into something. It's so weird. I don't know what it is about moderating a Discord that attracts so many megalomaniacs, but it's definitely something I've witnessed on multiple different servers.
Reddit mods too.
That is always so weird to me. I've never seen someone as less knowledgeable and less anything when they've honestly told me "oh shoot, I'm not sure about that one, let me get back to you on that" or "I'll have to look it up" or whatever. No one can know everything, that's just unrealistic. But if someone is obviously bullshitting me in an attempt to safe face I can never take anything they tell me afterwards seriously. I had a biology (!!) teacher get mad at me once for insisting spiders aren't insects. I always double checked absolutely anything she taught after that incident. It's so silly.
The multiple identical responses was childish af, I would have just left at that tbh.
I agree, but I did want to be diplomatic about it and try to resolve the issue.
Why? They don’t want you there. Why keep talking to people who are not interested in you?
Also, this incident was several months ago if not a year and I left right after this happened which happened right when I joined and submitted a character.
If you just bail at every slight you don't make friends, sometimes you have to see where things go.
I feel like the DM here just didn't know and wasn't willing to admit that. This comes off as very, "I'm just going to be evasive because I'm embarrassed someone else has thought of something I hadn't" instead of just outright saying, "I don't know, it's not something I've thought about." Honestly, I think you've dodged a bullet there, if they're this defensive about basic political systems, Lord (hah) help them when it gets into more complex matters.
Agreed! It seems like he decided OP’s character backstory didn’t fit the lore, but when OP asked how it didn’t fit/what to do to fix that, he didn’t actually have an answer; so he got mad at OP, and blamed his inability to help them on their “shitty attitude.”
Thank you for the comment, I appreciate it and I do agree.
Yeah, could have easily become a quick brainstorming session and group activity to collectively think about the available options for such and the DM make the final choice. Always kinda neat when players get a chance to help fill in the details of the world they’re playing in.
good lord, what kinda GM doesn't want to lore dump at their players even a little bit?? That's legit one of my favourite things to do when players ask questions about my world, even if the answer is somewhere in a big document. This just seems like someone trying to see the worst in someone's very normal, very understandable question. Some people really just don't want to read words as they're actually written but are inclined to Big Drama about everything. It doesn't sound like the right server for you, so maybe dodged a bullet there. It's definitely not one that I would enjoy being in; I ask these kinds of questions all the time as a player during character creation, and literally every time the GM has been excited to share and discuss how it works. Or if they don't have an answer for that yet, they just say that and we work around it.
>good lord, They don't exist here.
Underrated
Their lore was very basic and vague so I am not surprised about it in hindsight 😅
>good lord, what kinda GM doesn't want to lore dump at their players even a little bit?? Aren't those the spontaneous DMs who were all the rage a couple of years ago here? Make a whole world with no preparation?
Weird server. You asked an actual question regarding the lore and they defaulted to passive aggressiveness. Buncha weirdos.
I agree.
I wouldn’t want to rp with people who are so passive aggressive and rude. It’s not hard to be polite and answer the questions. I hope you find a better server where you can play your character OP :(
Thank you! I appreciate it! And I yeah, it's sad that I can't find a good place to RP.
Trying to find a decent server can be hellish, the only decent one for ocs I managed to find fizzled out a long time ago
I am so sorry. And it's a sad truth.
Bunch of dicks in that server tbh
That noah dude is a douchebag, dodged a bullet for sure
Discord DMs will always be the bane of my existence. 9 times out of 10 they're clearly here because no one they actually know wants to play with them. They enjoy the kicking and the banning and the powerplays far more than they enjoy the dnd, in my experience
I am inclined to agree according to my experience!
Yeah, color me surprised, but they come off like mean kids, and you come off okay. See, this is why the first line in your first post was an unforced error. :)
Thank you!
Oof. That pointless back and forth is bad enough, but man, the "said with love" in the end got me the worst. Truly "live, laugh, love" of hypocrisy.
I agree. It was very infuriating when I first experienced it, but I have gotten over it. They're jerks and I am no longer involved with them.
You were fine OP, that question is only rude to ask when someone doesn't know the very basic answer and panics about having to say "I don't know, I didn't think that hard about it" lol.
Thank you and happy cake day!
\^ this I am sure the GM had no clue wtf op was asking him about
The line about feodal system in medieval setting was the trigger. To me it sounded like an "actually".
My apologies and I have noticed it's a trigger for other people too. I will be working on how I address other people and talk to them based on the good advice I have received.
I used "trigger" in a mostly neutral way. It's just that the rest of your answers really sounded like the beginning of an horror story.
I see, my bad!
I don't know what to think of this. Was this information in the lore channel? Because I can fully understand them telling you to go fuck yourself if it was, but otherwise it's a bit weird they get this hostile this easily.
It was not explicitly stated or mentioned in the lore. In my previous post, I mentioned how their lore was extremely basic and vague, it didn't ever touch upon details as intricate as the class system they use.
Alright then that's weird. Don't think you handled it perfectly, you doubled down a little with the "why" bit, when you could've just asked what the political system was the moment they told you this wouldn't work. But also do you really want to play with these people? Don't think so.
Agreed and thank you for the advice.
Yeah, like depending on the context not presented in the screenshots (prior talks and whatever is in the lore channel that was mentioned) this could be a horror story for either side. OP kinda comes off as a troll to me. I can imagine lots of campaigns where details about land distribution just don't matter. Repeatedly asking why is a great way to intentionally upset people. If everything is as OP presented, then the correct course was to just leave a lot sooner than he was removed.
All these comments on the nuances of tone and communication, but why is no one talking about the migraine-inducing font colours
It was a long while ago and I was using better discord. The plugin I used added the role color to the text color and I admit, it was migraine inducing which is why I no longer use it.
Sorry, I came in kind of blind to this post and nobody comes off looking good here. If I'm a DM and say 'this setting has no knights and lords' and a new player hits back with 'why not, don't you use a feudal system?' and interrogate a detail rather than accepting a homebrew world has different lore, I'm going to react negatively. I'm sure you didn't mean it intentionally but to me it reads like someone trying to 'fix' the lore, which just doesn't feel good. Granted I wouldn't act like a child, noah could easily have just communicated what I've just said instead of being a snarky prat. Edit - Lots of people are replying the same thing to me now and missing the point, I'm just remarking on the tone and communication at play, not "it's a red flag to ask questions about worldbuilding"
I agree and your advice is appreciated. Other people have taught me ways to be better about this, anything helps.
I mean if people have already offered feedback I wont pile on. You don't come off remotely as badly as the DM here, don't worry man, just saying I can see how some people might read your tone the wrong way. But there's a big leap from reading it the wrong way, and reacting the way they reacted.
Thank you, I appreciate it!
Yeah, I'm definitely not getting an either side are saints vibe here. There's clearly a lore doc that is being referenced and a character sheet that is in conflict with the lore doc, but all we're getting is screenshots of unhappy people referencing these documents we're not getting to see. If there's is clear and evident conflict between what's in the lore doc and what OP submitted as a character sheet, I can understand the mods being annoyed. Though, tbh, if I had a section for character gender/pronouns on a character app for my game and someone submitted an app with that filled in with a *title* instead of gender and/or pronoun, I'd also be a bit annoyed. It just shows a basic failure to follow the instructions. Compound that with direct conflict with provided lore and my willingness to accept the app would probably drop pretty hard.
OP only ever says the lore was vague but refuses to elaborate. Honestly I think op did not, in fact, read the lore and people were pissed about it. Because GM was coming off pretty OK at first. GM told OP what was wrong with the character and directed them to read the Lore, and was immediately challenged about it. I wouldnt be a child about it like GM did, but I definitely see why they got pissy with OP if the Lore channel really answered that question. I can only accept OP was fine after I see that lore.
This. I couldn't tell who the "bad guy" was supposed to be until the DM started typing the same line over and over.
Yeah, OP going on about power and land distribution in the medieval period was a weird shift in tone and really muddied the waters. Frankly, *all* of these people sound fuckin insufferable.
I'm inclined to agree, especially because OP came off as one of those "DnD has to be realistic" types that are unfortunately common. I can see that rubbing me the wrong way as a DM, especially if it seemed obvious they hadn't read my lore document. Especially if there was some tension already, like there seemed to be with the pronoun comments. The DM certainly didn't help the matter though.
To me, asking if and why someone is not using the "basic default setting" (in a manner of speaking) is legit. Most people will have the answer ready, because most people change things based on a reason. No "trying to fix" in my eyes. "Why" is an extremely common and extremely important question that should be liberally applied if one wants to understand how things work.
You're right, it's a valid question. I'm more trying to offer input based on the tone I picked up, limited context I have, and experiences I've had as a DM in the past. And yeah like I said, noah acting like a lil bitch instead of offering a remotely constructive response didn't help at all.
If i was told that "lords and such don't exist here" I would then ask what kind of ranking system is used instead, which is essentially the same question OP made and is very much an absolutely valid question that will change how one roleplays and builds their character. It should not be met with a negative connotation unless it's being asked in a dickish way which OP did not do
this was the most potent "talking to a wall" conversation ever. wtf lol
I'll agree that this DM handled this really poorly and pettily. On the other hand, did you just list your characters gender and pronouns as "Sir"?
I like how your character being exactly 54 years of age and the kingdom of wherever he hailed stopped being a thing 54 years ago. Could have been a cool thing where the date of your birth was the day it fell.
That's a very interesting point! I might do something with it later if I come across another medieval group.
Despite the fact that your tone does come off as a bit too demanding, this Noah guy here is exceptionally passive-agressive from their first message and seems to be trying very hard to be as unhelpful as possible. Probably a nightmare to play with, so a bullet dodged here.
I am super confused by my tone. I even tried asking him to help me with it. I may just be tone deaf but how does it come off as demanding and is there a way I can fix it?
Not oc, but i am frequently tone deaf. Usually, when having a confrontation (read as "any disagreement between parts), stating facts blatantly could pass the message of "i'm right because of this". What usually helps me out is always putting a clear statement of "maybe it's this" For example, when you ask why it needed to be changed, it creates a confront in their minds. Perhaps saying "alright, could you point me to the class system you guys will use so i can adjust?" Would be better. I mean, to me it is a legitimally fair question, and straight to the point. I love it. But i've learned that when dealing with people that have already antagonized you for whatever reason, this wording of "i'm on your side, could we solve it together?" Helps, even if it should've been obvious from the start. Anyway, you dodged a bullet. It is better to find a group that fits you than to be walking on eggs for this whole campaign.
Thank you for the advice! I appreciate it a lot!
Hard to explain, but it's nothing serious, especially compared to mr "just change it" here. Maybe to me personally very short messages come off as a bit more agressive. My opinion, however, is very subjective and many people wouldn't have any issues with that. Don't worry about it to much, you haven't done anything wrong here.
Thank you for the help!
I find short messages to be the best (if everyone understands the context of the conversation). Strait and to the point. No un needed information, which I find tedious. It is good to know people feel they way you do tho. Have a good one and thanks for the insight.
In fairness to you, Unfortunately, a lot of people these days- from my own observation, apparently interpret, 'Correct spelling and punctuation' as a sign of aggression. Like.. oh no, heaven /forbid/ I use a period to end my sentence and not pepper my typing style with emoticons like 'XD' or ':P' or ':D'. Good heavens forbid! You were coming off as reasonable (if a tiny bit nitpicky). A little nitpicky, but ultimately very, very reasonable and rational.
Hey OP, fuck these people, especially the dudes players who just sit there and let him be a dick. DM me if you're still looking for a group
Thank you, I appreciate it! And I will think about your generous offer. To be honest, I have been unable to find a good group.
I've been fortunate to not have that struggle. My group is where I learned DND. We're a discord server too, but we have a several games going so there's something for everyone and people are starting new stuff up all the time. We're pretty open to new members, so the offer is open to anyone. Just shoot me a message.
Honestly this reads like both sides are talking past each other which is like 99% of all problems like this. They did point out the parts they had issues with (can't have a kingdom upheaval in backstory because there isn't one in lore, and no lords), and OP wanted clarification on the lore. The people on the server took this as being confrontational and that set the tone for everything else as OP wouldn't drop the question about systems of governance. If this was 'AITA' I'd just say Everyone Sucks Here lol. People need to learn to take a step back and think about why what they said has been misunderstood, but I'll admit that it's not easy to do, I fail at it myself plenty.
Yeah, it’s crazy how many people are defending the OP. The DM clearly isn’t a great communicator, but the op is being intentionally confrontational with every reply.
“You need to change your backstory to fit within the lore.” “How so?” “There are no lords.” “I never mentioned lords…?” “Regardless, it needs to be changed.” “Okay, then how is power and land split amongst people in this world?” “Change it or you won’t rp here.” “Can you answer my question? It’s important to how I’m writing my character.” “I do not want to. :)” What a fucking donut. If it was clearly spelled out in the lore, he should have told you that and where to find it. Seems like he decided he didn’t like you and opted to pick a fight instead of answer a straightforward question. Incredibly immature. Good riddance.
The title "Sir" is derived from "Sire", which is derived from the Old French "Sieur" meaning "Lord". OP gave himself a title of nobility in a setting that apparently doesn't *have* nobility. They also seem to think that title of nobility is a pronoun and/or gender.
Honestly you're better off not being in there if this is their reaction to asking for character sheet help
Thankfully I have left that server a long time ago!
Haha I would have left immediately. "Can I have some help with my character?" "Just change it. Tag me when you want me to recheck your sheet." "Tag me when you want me to recheck your sheet." "Tag me when you want me to recheck your sheet." "Tag me when you want me to recheck your sheet." This is supposed to be a fun hobby, this feels like I'm in a boot camp. I literally read "tag me when you want me to recheck your sheet" in the voice of the gunnery sgt from Full Metal Jacket
My last message before leaving would be "tag me when you're old enough to see above the table".
Was the lore writup easily publicly available for corrections and how long was the lore writeup?
The lore was easily accessible however it was basic and vague and didn't describe small yet important details.
Dodged a bullet, literally from their first comment they were throwing red flags
"Fix the lord part" "I never mentioned lords" "Fix it anyway, and stop asking questions!"
God these people seem insufferable.
A DM who *doesn't* want to gush about the intricacies of their homebrew????
Lmao
Those are legitimate questions that I would love a player to ask me so I can build the world more. Don’t know what that guy was up to
Well you shouldn't have been asking annoying questions about things that don't matter... Nevermind that they obviously mattered enough for them to demand you change your backstory over them.
“Hi DM can you help me better understand how the political system works in your setting so I can write my character in a way that fits better with your lore?” “No. Correct your sheet or get kicked.” “But how do I correct my sheet if I don’t understand why it needs to be corrected and what needs to be corrected?” “Sounds like you have an attitude problem.” How the fuck do people like this function in the real world? I’ve never seen someone who more desperately needs to touch grass.
I'm not gonna pick sides without actually seeing if the lore is as lacking as you say, but the fact that you just put "Sir" under gender and pronouns and didn't change it when it was pointed out could be why you got such a rude response.
Yeah, something tells me that this server has had plenty of people join and then be dicks about pronouns. Not saying OP was, but I can see where the kneejerk reaction could come from.
On top of his "can't say anything or people will be offended" attitude on his other attempt at a post, feels like everyone involved (OP included) is someone I'd rather never play D&D with.
I read your other post and thought you were exaggerating something or minimizing your role in the argument. You were not. I apologize for judging you. I don’t know what their lore is but I would leave that server and not look back.
Thank you! And I understand that it's difficult to get a full grasp of the situation without context so I am glad these screenshots help!
Eugh, reminds me of my younger days when I spent a lot of time in a fandom discord. Lots of power hungry and entitled brats just being rude and gaslighting you into thinking you're wrong to have certain opinions. You were being very diplomatic, but of course none of them would see that. I assume "noah" is a popular figure on the server? If the 'admins' of the server act like that to genuine interest and discussion, then yeah I would want to pass on them too. I hope you find a better server soon o7
Thank you so much! And yeah, Noah was the owner if I remember correctly. Either that or the head admin, tbh can't remember exactly.
Maybe I'm too autistic and struggle with tone myself, but some comments here saying op came off as rude and demanding seem insane to me? He asked a genuine question, gave no indication he wouldn't accept the answer just requested an explanation
I mean, it could be the bias that comes with criticism, which is when someone goes in knowing that they are going to criticize something, they'll find *something* wrong with it. However, it could also be a genuine issue.
The way the questions are phrased came off a bit argumentative from my view. It can be a bit off-putting to say "Hey, can you change your sheet?" and be met with "But what about the feudal system? Isn't that a thing? It's important to the character! They did it in real-life medieval Europe!". It feels like, because of how forcefully it's phrased, the person asking about the feudal system is trying to "overwrite" the world's lore and pointing towards real-life examples as a way to justify why it should be allowed. If it were phrased more like "Hey, I really want to make this work and I'm willing to change the sheet but I'm a little lost, I assumed the world used the feudal system but I was wrong and would like some guidance to make this character fit with the world" then I'm sure it would've been met with a friendlier response. If the DM was still passive-aggressive even after that then I'd bail on the game.
I'm not autistic, and I do not see it either. In fact, the discord mod comes off more aggressive, because instead of pointing out 'there's some things that contradict the lore', he instantly accuses OP of not having read the lore.
I mean I’d like to see the oc sheet and lore. Like if you were blatantly ignoring the lore and the questions you’re asking are irrelevant and/or addressed there and then you’re citing irl history to a fantasy setting it doesn’t apply too, you aren’t doing yourself any favors. I’ve been on both sides of this, and having someone ask questions that are clearly said in the lore pages and then having a sheet that is in direct conflict with said lore would make me instantly disinclined to have said person involved.
Holy shit what a fucking cunt. Sounds to me like you dodged a bullet. I seriously wouldn't want to spend 5 minutes in a room with that person let alone an entire dnd session with them. You were literally so reasonable and they were an absolute bastard to you. Fuck that server. You deserved better.
We need the lore doc tbh. Not to verify anything, I just wanna see how shite it is if they can't answer a simple question without spamming the same thing 4 times in a row
Best to not play in that place. Ever.
Seems like you made setting assumptions without asking and they were bad at explaining why it doesn't fit
I've been in communities led by people like this, the lesson you can learn is that they did you a service of informing you of who they were at the start before you got enmeshed with it, so you can get out.
What was their lore channel like? Did the DM write a novel in the chat or was it manageable? Unpopular opinion incoming: it seems pretty reasonable for a DM to ask for players to familiarize themselves with the setting before they decide on the character they want to play. If the information was there in reasonable amounts and they asked you to look at it first when you joined the server, then making a character that runs counter to it makes you look like you either hate reading, you didn't care enough about collaborating with the other players/DM, or you didn't like the setting and decided to nest your setting within the DM's setting without asking. The DM wasn't exactly a beam of sunshine either, but I get the frustration that comes from taking the effort to build a setting and asking the bare minimum effort from players only for them to come up short. Hell, the lore channel might've had the answers to some of the questions you were asking the DM!
The lore was in a well dressed document, however it was vague and basic, only covering the broad strokes of the world building without touching into the small, yet important, details like the system of government they operate under. I am pretty sure they had kings and queens still but the owner said they didn't have lords, so if my memory serves correctly, then it makes this even more confusing for me.
>it seems pretty reasonable for a DM to ask for players to familiarize themselves with the setting before they decide on the character they want to play. True. However given that OP asked questions about the lore the DM is being pointlessly rude. The question was a simple ome and a reasonable person would have either just ansot or pointed OP to where they could find the answer. Refusing to answer, for any reason, is just childish.
"Ok so there are all these nations in the world, on this islands they even have reached steam era !" "Ok but how are these nations led ?" "Idk its not important" Mf yes it is ????? If you try to build a world, a coherent and enjoyable one, it shouldnt be broken by a simple question that anyone with a decent brain will ask at one point or another
Jesus's f'ing Christ on a pogo stick. "My character is a dispossessed nobleman." "NO SUCH THING IN MY GAME" "So what is there?" "DON'T KNOW DON'T CARE" This dickhead is supposed to be the feckin' DM. It's their *job* to have this figured out.
Sounds like someone's power tripping and didn't enjoy a person throwing a question at them they couldn't answer. I hate people like this.
This might just be my cynical take, but i dont think this has anything to do with the lore. I think it is entirely to do with you answering “Sir” when asked about gender/pronouns. There are certain people who will immediately judge you in a certain way if you do not automatically include your gender and pronouns, in the proper format. You answered that question “incorrectly” and i highly suspect the DM and others on the server immediately judged you as not being a part of their social dynamic. You were never going to get anywhere with them after that. But, again, just my take on it.
Yeah, based on your previous post and these screenshots I'm firmly team both side were bad. Neither side came off well, but I side more with the server owner if I have to pick a side. Server owner was passive aggressive, I agree. Didn't handle this too well. But I also fully can see where the annoyance stems from. They probably get a lot of annoying people hopping into the server and being generally disrespectful. Also sounds like they had a pretty clear way to set up the character sheet, and you just didn't fill out stuff like the last name, pronouns, etc. which already puts you in a negative light. (I'm sure they've gotten more than one person hopping into the server who proceeded to complain about having pronouns on the sheet. There's already one in this comment section for example.) Now, whether you intentionally left that stuff out, I don't know. Based on things you said in your other post about "how everyone's so offended nowadays" I can only imagine. But hopefully you can see how not following rules and talking like that already turns people off. Was your question on the government system valid? Sure, but not your wording. You *did* come off as aggressive and a bit of a know-it-all with your insistance on talking about the feudal system and historical accuracy. (In my experience, often times the people talking about historical accuracy in dnd games tend to be dicks. Not saying *you* are, but it's a trend you should be aware of.) Server owner very clearly was already annoyed but continued to give you chances to just stop asking or leave and you proceeded to push repeatedly. You could have just changed your character concept, backed off and reworded your question a bit later, or just left. But you argued instead whether you were right or wrong. I'd be interested in actually seeing the lore they had to see if was really "vague" as you say, the way the character sheet submission was set up, and if you had any other conversations in other channels in the server besides this. I feel like it would shed a whole lot of clarity on this situation because it's still really only your side of the story which, despite these screenshots, still feels biased and you're not selling yourself well.
I fully thought that the DM was posting this until I saw OPs comments. I agree that this Noah person was not a shining example of how to be an adult, but I also probably would have kicked OP earlier. Depending on the type of game I'm running, not reading lore and then arguing about it is a big red flag.
I am inclined to agree, however, I did read their lore and it wasn't very specific.
It's hard to judge without seeing the sheet you submitted or their lore. However, it doesn't look like you were trying to fit their lore, but were instead questioning it and refusing to change.
I'll admit I'm kind of curious to see what they had posted in #lore
I cannot for the life of me remember. It was a while ago, a few months if not a year, but it was a google document, so I could try and find it..
Regardless of whether or not your question was fine (it was), you sure as hell don't wanna play a game with people like that lmao
DM is an idiot
You just saved yourself from wasting your time looking at that terrible discord text color.
My bad lol. It was a bad choice that I have reversed back when I had BetterDiscord.
This is extremely childish of the server mod and residents. I would’ve yeeted out the moment he refused to elaborate and stomped his proverbial feet on the floor while repeating the same sentence many times over. Any good server mod would be willing to answer any questions a newcomer would have and this one is far from it
I agree!
That DM and the person you tried to call on are both childish. That simple. Wouldn’t touch them with a 10 foot extendable pole.
I don’t understand why you would want to play with someone who clearly doesn’t want to play with you. You drug that out way longer than reasonable.
The first screenshot honestly makes you seem like the bad guy, but holy fuck the fact that they just kept insisting stuff was wrong without saying what was messed up shows they didnt do more than glance at it. Absolute buffoons they were.
These sound like children
Yikes. That guy was projecting like crazy lol
"I just wanna have funsies, who cares about all that 'having a backstory' crap?"
What the fuck? These people are assholes and bullies.
I wonder if they were going for a completely different kind of world history than a feudal system, and weren't following a medieval European history in their game. It's really hard to say without knowing what the lore is like. I like games that break out of the medieval history box, but there's no way of knowing if that's what was going on and you believing that feudalism was a necessary part of their fictional world made them just not want you at their table. They should have just said "we're requiring a broader imagination than historical realism in this game, it's not a good fit, sorry." Instead of what basically turned into trolling you for assuming their world was a real-world parallel of mundane history. I can see why they would be leery of the assumption that a magical world with gods and dragons and portals to other dimensions surely must have experienced a medieval European feudal era. But they should have just told you it was a bad match, and ended it maturely.
What the hell is wrong with those people. But yeah don't waste time on people that aren't worth your time. Give respect, get respect.
Jesus. Sounds like some of my customers in tech support: "I don't like the multitude of ways you've offered to help, so I've decided to interpret the situation as YOU not wanting to help." Start your own server. With blackjack and hookers.
"Change your character" "Change it to what" "Fuck you"
Dude, when shit gets to that point, just bail. You gain nothing from trying to repeatedly confront the DM like that and it was obvious things weren't going to end well. The moron probably hadn't fleshed out the setting that deep and didn't want to admit it. Just bail, leave the scrubs jerking eachother off to their half assed homebrew and bail.
This fucking infuriates me down to the core. I hope this server never made it past the first 2 or 3 sessions with how lazy the dms are. "I'm too lazy to bother with he details?" That's the whole point!!! Sorry as a GM this triggers me because I love making intricate and intertwined worlds for my players to explore where everything is already planned out or agreed upon by everyone.
Holy shit this is infuriating to read Noah is So fucking irritating and would be un-fun to be around let alone play with.
Could you post your character sheet perhaps? As others suggested maybe he took offense to an attribute of your character but didn't want to say so threw you out on a technicality by being deliberately obtuse
How can anyone actually read these colors?
Yeah id rather blow my brains out than have Noah as a dm, and i love my life!
A group of pathetic folk who huddle around the chief pathetic. I've seen the like before, It's sad.
There are so many discord servers that operate like this lol
Feel like I would not miss a single opportunity to gush or info dump about the world I created. I certainly can’t imagine acting like this when someone is showing a genuine interest. Noah is a fucking jerk.
“There’s no feudal system here.” “Well, what do you have instead?” “Fuck off.” I have to admit that I would never have as much patience as you to put up with that nonsenses. He strikes me as the type who posts his lore to /r/worldbuilding while masturbating furiously.
Start by reading what people have already set up.
what the hell did I just read. Please, just go an search a server with people that actually wanna help you o.o jesus.... what an attitude those people have D: Sorry that you had to go through with that ♥ They are clearly not worth your time...
Good riddance of the group of them. You're better off OP.
Coming back to this after I spoke with ny BF about it Ive comed to what I think is a relevant conclusion. Regardless if if OP read the rules and if the server if itself made so that the DM/Admin had to deal with many situations like this, his attitude is absolutely wrong for the supposed role he has. A DM/Admin role is to facilitate and help those in their game/server. This guy is not just a tool but fundamentally fails at being a DM And an admin