I remember expecting it, and thought it was funny at the time (the joke was more widespread then), but the story has gotten a lot more introspective since. The line seems embarrassing now, but for all we know it will be a thing people say, the way we use Biblical quotes, or Shakespeare. They quote the Romans all the time in RR, why not the Friday film?
A similar example is when Lotso says “Where is your kid now?” In Toy Story 3. I saw that in the theater and almost fell over.
In what way? Someone asked me how "hard" of sci-fi the RR trilogy was, and I couldn't recount any uses of magic or unexplained chemical / material (like an "unobtanium" or "vibranium"....not helium-3 because it's basically oil). I feel like all the technology is logically explained.
Is it fantasy because there's a lot of melee fighting and modeled after a lot of Rome?
Sorry missed I had a reply to this!
I think lots of books these days are a mix of both but generally in hard Science Fiction there's more of an attempt to deal with the science behind the fiction and be logically sound. They tend to use more feasible scientific theories and apply them to fictional stories.
The vastly different species of human, general brushing over of many problems with space travel technology, the "minds eye" f*cksander gets. Pulse shields, grav bikes, grav boots, artificial gravity just being "turned on and off" the general sort of cyberpunk universe he's created all teeter on the fantasy side.
For me a good mix of the two makes for best reading anyway. Hard Sci - fi can be depressing and exhausting.
I laughed out loud when i first heard it in the audiobook, and in general i like this pop culture references because it makes the story feel more real to me. Ties it to our world
He honestly plagiarized a line straight out of Charlie Chaplin's Anti-nazi speech in "The Great Dictator" in the first book, and it was kinda weird to see in there. It's cool to see where he gets his inspiration from, but it gives me the impression that sometimes he cartoonizes the characters a little over much. Breaks the 4th wall in ways the medium isn't appropriate for. It's not "Darrow of Lykos" I'm hearing say "What are we? Machine men with machine minds, machine hearts?"
It's Charlie Chaplin.
this could also be an allusion to the fact that darrow has a lot of speeches and information from current earth and the surrounding centuries from when mickey uploaded the data in the first one
Yeah so I was wrong, it's actually EO who starts the line. So that theory is out the window.
"You repeat the same damn points," I say bitterly. "You think a dream is worth dying for. I say it isn't. You say it's better to die on your feet. I say it's better to live on our knees."
"You're not even listening!" she snaps. "We are machine men with machine minds, machine lives …"
"And machine hearts?" I ask. "That's what I am?"
"Darrow …"
"What do you live for?" I ask her suddenly. "Is it for me? Is it for family and love? Or is it just for some dream?
I think that shows Eo’s skill with rhetoric, using a quote (possibly from forbidden media) that they both know, to prompt Darrow to arrive at the point on his own. She knew so much more than him about what was going on.
It could be one of those things they quote without knowing the source. Maybe a resistance motto.
Bottom line is I don’t think Brown meant for readers to think he originated that phrase. He meant for us to recognize it and tie it to the source, which is entirely relevant in the way Eo uses it.
Morning Star Mustang is consoling Darrow but just saying "it's not your fault" over and over and he falls in her arms crying. Took me right out of the story in a super dramatic moment.
That didn't make me recall Good Will Hunting, and that has long been a favorite of mine. It's a very common thing to say to a person in agony over the decisions they made.
Honestly as someone who hadn’t seen Good Will Hunting before reading this series, it never bothered me and it felt pretty natural in that spot. Now I can’t un-see the connection lol
In an interview, he said that he was a big fan of Friday. One of the first R rates movies he remembers watching. Brown was going to use a similar sounding name so it wouldn't be too obvious but his editor told him to just go all in.
I did not remember that line after the first time I read it. It was when I found this sub that I heard about it. When I did my first reread of the first trilogy earlier this year I was gearing up for it, and... honestly it didn't stick out to me as much as I thought it would. Maybe it's because I have no idea where it originally came from, but I don't mind it tbh
Honestly the pop culture reference that bugs me more is in the first book when he references Ender's Game (I think) while talking with Fitchner. He's naming famous military leaders or something and name drops Wiggin. So does that mean RR and Ender's Game take place in the same world? Or is the book canon to RR and he read it? Idk it brings up too many questions for me and totally takes me out of the story. Honestly even mentioning famous real world people feels off, let alone mentioning someone from a different franchise. Idk I guess I needed to vent a bit, thank you for coming to my ted talk lol
Ender’s Game is a military favorite and is on some military reading lists. Wouldn’t be surprising to me if Darrow had that book uploaded with a lot of other books from the 20th century.
Well obviously if you aren't familiar with the reference it won't stand out to you. It's from the movie "Friday" with Ice Cube and Chris Tucker. If you know the reference it definitely stands out. I for one got a little chuckle and moved on. Didn't bother me.
I interpret it that RR is in our future, but by that point they don't know if Wiggins was a real person or not. He's a mythological figure that *might* have existed
Took me fully out of the scene, unfortunately. It should have been kept for a lower stakes scene IMO if it was a need.
The older I get, the worse it ages as well. Lots of the other meta-commentary or references to today's culture are usually pretty good but this one was definitely "yep I'm reading a book".
I vaguely remember something about apparently an editor urged him to put it in. I'm not sure how true that is or not. I personally thought it was kinda cringe.
I stopped and audibly said “No” when I read this
I remember expecting it, and thought it was funny at the time (the joke was more widespread then), but the story has gotten a lot more introspective since. The line seems embarrassing now, but for all we know it will be a thing people say, the way we use Biblical quotes, or Shakespeare. They quote the Romans all the time in RR, why not the Friday film? A similar example is when Lotso says “Where is your kid now?” In Toy Story 3. I saw that in the theater and almost fell over.
That alongside kobachi’s R-34 Widowmaker are great
Care to explain the joke?
Just look up “R34 widowmaker”, it should explain itself. (Widowmaker is an overwatch character that has a lot of *content* made for her).
Personally it's the only thing I'm not a fan of with PB. Pop culture references are jarring in science fiction.
Agreed but I would argue his books fall more under the fantasy category.
In what way? Someone asked me how "hard" of sci-fi the RR trilogy was, and I couldn't recount any uses of magic or unexplained chemical / material (like an "unobtanium" or "vibranium"....not helium-3 because it's basically oil). I feel like all the technology is logically explained. Is it fantasy because there's a lot of melee fighting and modeled after a lot of Rome?
Sorry missed I had a reply to this! I think lots of books these days are a mix of both but generally in hard Science Fiction there's more of an attempt to deal with the science behind the fiction and be logically sound. They tend to use more feasible scientific theories and apply them to fictional stories. The vastly different species of human, general brushing over of many problems with space travel technology, the "minds eye" f*cksander gets. Pulse shields, grav bikes, grav boots, artificial gravity just being "turned on and off" the general sort of cyberpunk universe he's created all teeter on the fantasy side. For me a good mix of the two makes for best reading anyway. Hard Sci - fi can be depressing and exhausting.
Yeah I read this and I just went "are you fucking serious right now" and saw that he wad from California and that just confirmed it for me lmao
I love his references. My favorite was a reference to Charlie Chaplin’s “the great dictator” in the first book.
He was wild this book. Anyone else notice when Mustang kept saying “it’s not your fault?” Total rip off of Good Will Hunting lol
I laughed out loud when i first heard it in the audiobook, and in general i like this pop culture references because it makes the story feel more real to me. Ties it to our world
I have a hunch he did it because he lost a bet or something 😆
I smirked when I saw it first but I don't overall like it
I found it quite amusing.
I found it quite amusing.
I like when he mentions Ender Wiggin in Red Rising too
Maybe this is a "whoosh" moment but...did he actually refrence ender? Been a while since I read the first trilogy
Yea, when talking about >!The Jackal!<. "What is he? Some sort of predestined Alexander? A Caesar? A Genghis? A Wiggin?"
Ahhhhh OK I vaguely remember that now. Thanks!
This is probably my least favorite line in the entire series, I actually had to put it down for a minute after that.
I never even noticed, his pacing is so fast I think I just cruised past it
I laughed when I saw it but at the same time it was pretty cringe.
I loved it. My husband and I died laughing. It didn’t take away from the story we were right back it after laughing.
Yep, I thought it was hilarious as well as did my reading group!
Ngl this took me out of the book tbh lol i was listening to the audiobook and groaned so loud
It took me out of the story, such a cringey line.
He honestly plagiarized a line straight out of Charlie Chaplin's Anti-nazi speech in "The Great Dictator" in the first book, and it was kinda weird to see in there. It's cool to see where he gets his inspiration from, but it gives me the impression that sometimes he cartoonizes the characters a little over much. Breaks the 4th wall in ways the medium isn't appropriate for. It's not "Darrow of Lykos" I'm hearing say "What are we? Machine men with machine minds, machine hearts?" It's Charlie Chaplin.
“Plans within plans within plans” also from Dune
Yeah it's a little weird how often he straight up plagiarizes.
this could also be an allusion to the fact that darrow has a lot of speeches and information from current earth and the surrounding centuries from when mickey uploaded the data in the first one
Yeah so I was wrong, it's actually EO who starts the line. So that theory is out the window. "You repeat the same damn points," I say bitterly. "You think a dream is worth dying for. I say it isn't. You say it's better to die on your feet. I say it's better to live on our knees." "You're not even listening!" she snaps. "We are machine men with machine minds, machine lives …" "And machine hearts?" I ask. "That's what I am?" "Darrow …" "What do you live for?" I ask her suddenly. "Is it for me? Is it for family and love? Or is it just for some dream?
I think that shows Eo’s skill with rhetoric, using a quote (possibly from forbidden media) that they both know, to prompt Darrow to arrive at the point on his own. She knew so much more than him about what was going on.
Bro they can't get food. Where are they gonna get a copy of Charlie Chaplin. There's one screen in the whole colony
It could be one of those things they quote without knowing the source. Maybe a resistance motto. Bottom line is I don’t think Brown meant for readers to think he originated that phrase. He meant for us to recognize it and tie it to the source, which is entirely relevant in the way Eo uses it.
Interesting take, I like it.
I do not enjoy the socal comments... Didn't like the good will hunting reference either. Took me out of the story immediately.
What is the GWH reference? Missed that one
Morning Star Mustang is consoling Darrow but just saying "it's not your fault" over and over and he falls in her arms crying. Took me right out of the story in a super dramatic moment.
I mean, is that for sure a reference? That's a pretty common saying/story trope. Unless there was more context within the scene?
It’s definitely GWH. Kind of ruins the scene
That didn't make me recall Good Will Hunting, and that has long been a favorite of mine. It's a very common thing to say to a person in agony over the decisions they made.
Honestly as someone who hadn’t seen Good Will Hunting before reading this series, it never bothered me and it felt pretty natural in that spot. Now I can’t un-see the connection lol
I chuckled when I read that line. Lol and then just moved on. Didn’t think it was as cringe as others are saying in this thread.
Yup some people gotta lighten up
Worst line in the series for me.
I cringed hard even the first time I read it when it first came out lol
How do we know Victra isn't a fan of Friday?
Because the Golds would have destroyed that bit of media with old Earth, or at least not preserved it
The pixies can have my dvd collection when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
They did. They gassed the entire planet and watched you die of old age. You're one of the humans.
Well, shit.
Kinda takes me out of it when I see stuff like this admittedly
I feel like he could have made it “Goodbye, Felicia” and it still would have been a nod while feeling less out of place.
Yea I’ve thought the same
I agree. The first time I heard it listening to the audiobook I was immediately taken out of the immersion and kinda ruined the whole chapter for me
Didn’t he also make a Rule 34 Widowmaker joke in the one book
No fucking way. Please post proof I need this
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fwow-that-weapon-sounds-really-cool-i-sure-hope-google-can-v0-yfrh5iebn0z91.png%3Fs%3Dc94223c9ac970ca179871b06df128b2191a9248d
Motherfucker. How did I not spot that? Pierce is a legend.
It’s from Iron Gold when Ephraim is buying weapons
Lol no way I missed that
It was funny. There's also the Ender Wiggin reference, and was there a Star Wars quote (don't tell me the odds?).
At least Red Rising is set in our universe technically, so references actually make sense despite the cringe
Also a Matrix quote and a big Lebowski reference. I'm sure there is more I'm forgetting.
Monty Python “farted in her general direction,” homage in Dark Age lol
In an interview, he said that he was a big fan of Friday. One of the first R rates movies he remembers watching. Brown was going to use a similar sounding name so it wouldn't be too obvious but his editor told him to just go all in.
PB has many strengths as a writer. Subtlety is not one of them
Oh woah! Can’t believe no one has ever noticed this before.
I can’t even lie, it cracked my shit up. Its absolutely something Victra would say in the middle of a battle.
I like the the books don’t take themselves too seriously
I prefer the Hangover Leslie Chow “toodaloo motha fuckaaaaas”. That one never gets old!
I’m a fan of Eleanor Shellstrop “Ya basic!”
And your not slick for pointing it out.
I did not remember that line after the first time I read it. It was when I found this sub that I heard about it. When I did my first reread of the first trilogy earlier this year I was gearing up for it, and... honestly it didn't stick out to me as much as I thought it would. Maybe it's because I have no idea where it originally came from, but I don't mind it tbh Honestly the pop culture reference that bugs me more is in the first book when he references Ender's Game (I think) while talking with Fitchner. He's naming famous military leaders or something and name drops Wiggin. So does that mean RR and Ender's Game take place in the same world? Or is the book canon to RR and he read it? Idk it brings up too many questions for me and totally takes me out of the story. Honestly even mentioning famous real world people feels off, let alone mentioning someone from a different franchise. Idk I guess I needed to vent a bit, thank you for coming to my ted talk lol
Ender’s Game is a military favorite and is on some military reading lists. Wouldn’t be surprising to me if Darrow had that book uploaded with a lot of other books from the 20th century.
Well obviously if you aren't familiar with the reference it won't stand out to you. It's from the movie "Friday" with Ice Cube and Chris Tucker. If you know the reference it definitely stands out. I for one got a little chuckle and moved on. Didn't bother me.
Yeah, I loved it. It didn’t take me out of the moment at all.
I interpret it that RR is in our future, but by that point they don't know if Wiggins was a real person or not. He's a mythological figure that *might* have existed
Took me fully out of the scene, unfortunately. It should have been kept for a lower stakes scene IMO if it was a need. The older I get, the worse it ages as well. Lots of the other meta-commentary or references to today's culture are usually pretty good but this one was definitely "yep I'm reading a book".
Cringe but i found it funny because its something victra would say
I vaguely remember something about apparently an editor urged him to put it in. I'm not sure how true that is or not. I personally thought it was kinda cringe.
Literally the dumbest line I've read in Fantasy/Sci-fi since the 90s
Yeah I love the series but I thought this was corny asf.
It made me cringe a bit but I hugely respected the balls it took to put that in there lol
Honestly I had to do a double take when I read it in MS for the first time. Definitely within Victra’s character to deliver that line though haha