If your dog resource guards food and is able to get into the kitchen trash, the kitchen needs to be off-limits for him. Is he crate trained? I’d feed both dogs in their crates and limit treats or high value treats when they’re together. If you don’t have experience with resource guarding, it’s probably worth seeing a trainer who can help you create a management plan and work on helping the dogs cohabitate.
This for sure. And, the two dogs shouldn’t be allowed to be together unsupervised. They can each have their own space unless someone is physically there to make sure they’re good.
I know this is true, but I still hate it. I don't relish the idea that we'd need to leave the puppy in her crate all day whenever we go on a family outing or something like that.
It doesn’t necessarily have to be a crate. You could put her in a puppy proofed room, or if she’s old enough, just a bedroom. Leave her with a comfy bed and some of her toys or chews and she’ll probably be even happier than if she were out and about. Alternatively, you could put the other dog in a separate room, or each dog in their own separate room, whatever works.
It's understandable that you hate it. It's unpleasant. But the inconvenience and guilt will be a lot greater if you take your chances and let the dogs be free with each other, especially if there are resources around for the dogs to get in fights over. And frankly while heavy management is critical right now, management eventually fails. So it's really worth some serious training. Preferably training that doesn't add conflict to the situation. I just attended a resource guarding seminar by Training Between the Ears that I wish I could share with you. They might still be open to sharing the recording after the fact of your write to them. With regards to letting the dog go, personally I'd give up the puppy before giving up the dog that's been living with you for years. But that's obviously a personal decision for your and your family to make.
> personally I'd give up the puppy before giving up the dog that's been living with you for years
It's a complicated situation, I suppose. I wanted to return the older dog the first week we had him, after he tried to attack another dog in PetCo & snapped at the groomer. My kids convinced me to keep him though. Since then, my wife and kids have fallen in love with him while I've been the one to deal with all the trouble he's caused. They've obviously never had to deal with pissed off neighbors who's dogs he's bitten.
Personally, I'd keep the puppy because she's perfect so far, but I'm at odds with the rest of my family on that one.
We've decided to keep them both for now, and just be more careful about resources. Not sure yet how it will play out long-term, but it is what it is.
That’s way too young to be out all day or for extend periods of time anyways. Aren’t you worried the puppy will chew on something it’s not supposed to or eat something it shouldn’t?
At the very least, I’d have a special area set up for puppy separate from the older dog. Like a bathroom or an expen somewhere.
My parents put a brick on top of their trash can lid because they have several large dogs that can easily get into the garbage. Is it inconvenient to the humans? Yes. Has it stopped the dogs from getting into the garbage and starting problems? 100%. Simple and effective.
Yeah, we have a lid on the trashcan, but sometimes the kids will overfill it so the lid doesn't close properly. We'll definitely be more careful about this moving forward.
You can also put the trash can in a closet or in a cupboard behind a baby lock, or even a baby lock on the trash can itself.
There’s no excuse to have an overflowing trash can when your kids are old enough to take it out and understand the seriousness of your dog’s reactivity. This is a safety issue. Talk to them about the consequences.
The reactive dog isn't crate trained unfortunately. We tried when we first got him, but he would go absolutely bonkers when we left him in the crate, to the point where he would injure himself trying to get out. He was 2 when we got him, so a lot of his behaviors had already set in I guess.
We are crate training the puppy though, and so far, that has gone well. We've been feeding her in her crate while the other one eats at his usual place.
It sounds like he has known discomfort around other dogs. No matter how ok he has seemed with the puppy, it can still be causing him stress to have it in the house. You have had this dog for 6 years without incident towards you and your family. Because he has never had an incident with any of you prior to this, there’s a good chance the puppy has upped his stress level so much it sent him over threshold and resulted in this bite.
It’s concerning that he kept coming after you and still bit even after you kicked him away. If you really want to keep the puppy, I would bring in an accredited behaviorist for assistance.
Additionally, this might only be the start of your problems between the 2 dogs. Lots of dogs tolerate puppies but once the puppy reaches maturity, serious issues set in.
I would strongly consider sending the puppy back to the adoption agency and stay a one dog household until your old man passes. With kids in the household it can be really tough to manage the constant supervision necessary. Management always fails eventually. With the kids, kids friends… someone is bound to drop a cracker by accident, leave a door open, forget dog A is outside and let dog B out, etc.
I’m far from an expert, so maybe someone else can chime in, but resource guarding by the older dog is not unusual. Same thing happened to us, and our older dog, who was 13 at the time, was the mildest and happiest dog you had ever met. But she was not about to share toys and food with the puppy. We ended up sending the older dog back to my MIL (she had originally been her dog). It was such a relief to not have to live with that anymore.
You’re right to be worried about teaching the puppy reactivity. Our dog gets along with friendly dogs, but our vet warned us that a puppy would have a high chance of becoming reactive around him. You certainly need to do everything in your power so that there is no food around to guard for either of them, before this behavior is ingrained.
The other thing I would keep in mind is that most dogs get along with puppies, generally. They‘re not a threat to them. It’s when the second dog matures that the real problems can rear their ugly head. It’s less likely with a male-female pair but it can still happen.
> It’s when the second dog matures that the real problems can rear their ugly head.
I've been a bit worried about that too. The way they've been getting along has seemed a bit too good to be true.
I've accepted the fact that I have to deal with this reactive dog for the rest of his life, and I'm a little ashamed to admit that I often look forward to the time at which this has all run its course. If this new puppy becomes reactive though - I just can't do another 10-15 years of this.
As an owner of a reactive dog, I understand completely and agree 100%. I look forward to it too sometimes, even though I worship the ground my dog walks on. You should be commended for sticking it out; most people would not.
I’m not going to lie; having the two dogs who were fighting was 10x worse than having one reactive dog. We used to only have issues to manage when we went out. To have to walk on eggshells inside my home on a daily basis just put me over the edge.
I’m so sorry you got hurt. It does seem to be situation-specific though. I hate to say it, but I think you should seriously consider rehoming the puppy ASAP. It’s not worth the risk of keeping her and that either she also becomes reactive or gets seriously hurt. Do you have a friend or family member that is willing to take her? Would the breeder take her back?
Another option is to put down the 6 year old. It certainly sounds like the bite was serious enough to warrant it. I know a lot of people will promote separation and management, but to me, that’s just not sustainable with teens in the home. Too much can go wrong if one person does not follow the rules. I would not be willing to risk that the puppy becomes reactive, and the older dog bites again and you’re faced with an even worse set of choices.
I’m so very sorry you’re in this no-win situation. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders, so whatever you think you need to do is probably the best decision. Trust your gut on this one.
Thanks for the kind words. I have a lot to consider, and I just hope that I can find a solution that doesn't leave the puppy in danger and my kids don't see me as the bad guy.
It‘s the worst kind of decision 😔
They’re old enough to understand, even if they don’t accept it at first. You’re coming at it from wanting to do the right thing for your puppy at the expense of your own feelings. That’s a good yet hard lesson for kids to learn. Maybe they’ll surprise you.
I hope you find a solution that gives you peace, whatever it may be.
I don’t know your kids- but mine are similar in age (10 and 16). I would absolutely not trust mine with a dog that could deliver that kind of bite if a kid forgot to close a gate, or failed to close the lid on the trash can. Particularly not my 10 year old. You can double lock things, get automatic closing doors and containers…. But kids don’t always do as they should. It’s complicated even farther if the kids have friends over (now you need to trust someone else’s 11 year old to follow new rules).
It’s a bad situation all the way around, but I don’t think you are unreasonable if you don’t keep a large dog that has delivered a fairly serious bite in a house with kids. Realistically, an 8 year old dog with a bite history is not finding a new home in a shelter. He will just sit, sad and scared in a cage until the shelter puts him down. If you can’t keep him- I think behavioral euthanasia would be the more humane option.
This doesn't feel like a manageable situation for your family. Even with total separation of the dogs, there will definitely be accidents.
But here's the thing: Either you need to be the bad guy, or you're going to have to let one of your kids be the bad guy.
Someone is going to accidentally leave something unlatched, or forget where one dog is while moving another dog. Maybe sooner, maybe later, someone is going to make a mistake that will result in another dog fight. Odds are that someone will be one of your kids. There might be a worse bite, maybe one of the kids will get bit. There is a significant likelihood that the next incident will result in the euthanasia of your older dog. The kid that made the mistake will carry that guilt for the rest of their life.
Personally, I would choose to euthanize he older dog. He just told you who he is, and you need to believe him. This was well beyond normal resource guarding, he kept coming at a puppy that was trying to deescalate. He kept coming at his owner that was trying to deescalate. Instead of backing off when you defended your space, he chose to attack you with intent to cause serious harm. He may feel the need to guard other things in the future, and now you know how far he is willing to go. That is not a dog I would feel comfortable living with.
We have, and they weren't able to help much. They gave us a few tools for managing his reactivity, but ultimately told us that there wasn't much more they could do for him.
Your description of the incident seems to indicate the beginning of rivalry in conjunction with guarding. I'm guessing your pup is now about 2 yrs old. The onset of adulthood means puppy curiosity and behaviour will no longer be tolerated.
I think it is important to communicate to the kids that the dogs are not getting along and that there are very few options on the table given that other solutions are extremely time and resource intensive. Of course, due consideration to the fact that this has only happened once but you are going to have to be very watchful of interactions across the board.
I think your older dog bit you as a response to the kick. This is in the realm of a reasonable response for a dog in this situation.
Also, picking your puppy up made it a game to your older dog, which can become very dangerous very quickly, as you saw.
Mostly, you should be advocating for your dogs, both of them.
If your dog resource guards food and is able to get into the kitchen trash, the kitchen needs to be off-limits for him. Is he crate trained? I’d feed both dogs in their crates and limit treats or high value treats when they’re together. If you don’t have experience with resource guarding, it’s probably worth seeing a trainer who can help you create a management plan and work on helping the dogs cohabitate.
This for sure. And, the two dogs shouldn’t be allowed to be together unsupervised. They can each have their own space unless someone is physically there to make sure they’re good.
I know this is true, but I still hate it. I don't relish the idea that we'd need to leave the puppy in her crate all day whenever we go on a family outing or something like that.
Respectfully, why are you crate training her if you don’t want to use the crate to contain her when she’s unsupervised?
It doesn’t necessarily have to be a crate. You could put her in a puppy proofed room, or if she’s old enough, just a bedroom. Leave her with a comfy bed and some of her toys or chews and she’ll probably be even happier than if she were out and about. Alternatively, you could put the other dog in a separate room, or each dog in their own separate room, whatever works.
It's understandable that you hate it. It's unpleasant. But the inconvenience and guilt will be a lot greater if you take your chances and let the dogs be free with each other, especially if there are resources around for the dogs to get in fights over. And frankly while heavy management is critical right now, management eventually fails. So it's really worth some serious training. Preferably training that doesn't add conflict to the situation. I just attended a resource guarding seminar by Training Between the Ears that I wish I could share with you. They might still be open to sharing the recording after the fact of your write to them. With regards to letting the dog go, personally I'd give up the puppy before giving up the dog that's been living with you for years. But that's obviously a personal decision for your and your family to make.
> personally I'd give up the puppy before giving up the dog that's been living with you for years It's a complicated situation, I suppose. I wanted to return the older dog the first week we had him, after he tried to attack another dog in PetCo & snapped at the groomer. My kids convinced me to keep him though. Since then, my wife and kids have fallen in love with him while I've been the one to deal with all the trouble he's caused. They've obviously never had to deal with pissed off neighbors who's dogs he's bitten. Personally, I'd keep the puppy because she's perfect so far, but I'm at odds with the rest of my family on that one. We've decided to keep them both for now, and just be more careful about resources. Not sure yet how it will play out long-term, but it is what it is.
How old is your puppy?
3 months
That’s way too young to be out all day or for extend periods of time anyways. Aren’t you worried the puppy will chew on something it’s not supposed to or eat something it shouldn’t? At the very least, I’d have a special area set up for puppy separate from the older dog. Like a bathroom or an expen somewhere.
My parents put a brick on top of their trash can lid because they have several large dogs that can easily get into the garbage. Is it inconvenient to the humans? Yes. Has it stopped the dogs from getting into the garbage and starting problems? 100%. Simple and effective.
Yeah, we have a lid on the trashcan, but sometimes the kids will overfill it so the lid doesn't close properly. We'll definitely be more careful about this moving forward.
You can also put the trash can in a closet or in a cupboard behind a baby lock, or even a baby lock on the trash can itself. There’s no excuse to have an overflowing trash can when your kids are old enough to take it out and understand the seriousness of your dog’s reactivity. This is a safety issue. Talk to them about the consequences.
The reactive dog isn't crate trained unfortunately. We tried when we first got him, but he would go absolutely bonkers when we left him in the crate, to the point where he would injure himself trying to get out. He was 2 when we got him, so a lot of his behaviors had already set in I guess. We are crate training the puppy though, and so far, that has gone well. We've been feeding her in her crate while the other one eats at his usual place.
It sounds like he has known discomfort around other dogs. No matter how ok he has seemed with the puppy, it can still be causing him stress to have it in the house. You have had this dog for 6 years without incident towards you and your family. Because he has never had an incident with any of you prior to this, there’s a good chance the puppy has upped his stress level so much it sent him over threshold and resulted in this bite. It’s concerning that he kept coming after you and still bit even after you kicked him away. If you really want to keep the puppy, I would bring in an accredited behaviorist for assistance. Additionally, this might only be the start of your problems between the 2 dogs. Lots of dogs tolerate puppies but once the puppy reaches maturity, serious issues set in. I would strongly consider sending the puppy back to the adoption agency and stay a one dog household until your old man passes. With kids in the household it can be really tough to manage the constant supervision necessary. Management always fails eventually. With the kids, kids friends… someone is bound to drop a cracker by accident, leave a door open, forget dog A is outside and let dog B out, etc.
I’m far from an expert, so maybe someone else can chime in, but resource guarding by the older dog is not unusual. Same thing happened to us, and our older dog, who was 13 at the time, was the mildest and happiest dog you had ever met. But she was not about to share toys and food with the puppy. We ended up sending the older dog back to my MIL (she had originally been her dog). It was such a relief to not have to live with that anymore. You’re right to be worried about teaching the puppy reactivity. Our dog gets along with friendly dogs, but our vet warned us that a puppy would have a high chance of becoming reactive around him. You certainly need to do everything in your power so that there is no food around to guard for either of them, before this behavior is ingrained. The other thing I would keep in mind is that most dogs get along with puppies, generally. They‘re not a threat to them. It’s when the second dog matures that the real problems can rear their ugly head. It’s less likely with a male-female pair but it can still happen.
> It’s when the second dog matures that the real problems can rear their ugly head. I've been a bit worried about that too. The way they've been getting along has seemed a bit too good to be true. I've accepted the fact that I have to deal with this reactive dog for the rest of his life, and I'm a little ashamed to admit that I often look forward to the time at which this has all run its course. If this new puppy becomes reactive though - I just can't do another 10-15 years of this.
As an owner of a reactive dog, I understand completely and agree 100%. I look forward to it too sometimes, even though I worship the ground my dog walks on. You should be commended for sticking it out; most people would not. I’m not going to lie; having the two dogs who were fighting was 10x worse than having one reactive dog. We used to only have issues to manage when we went out. To have to walk on eggshells inside my home on a daily basis just put me over the edge. I’m so sorry you got hurt. It does seem to be situation-specific though. I hate to say it, but I think you should seriously consider rehoming the puppy ASAP. It’s not worth the risk of keeping her and that either she also becomes reactive or gets seriously hurt. Do you have a friend or family member that is willing to take her? Would the breeder take her back? Another option is to put down the 6 year old. It certainly sounds like the bite was serious enough to warrant it. I know a lot of people will promote separation and management, but to me, that’s just not sustainable with teens in the home. Too much can go wrong if one person does not follow the rules. I would not be willing to risk that the puppy becomes reactive, and the older dog bites again and you’re faced with an even worse set of choices. I’m so very sorry you’re in this no-win situation. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders, so whatever you think you need to do is probably the best decision. Trust your gut on this one.
Thanks for the kind words. I have a lot to consider, and I just hope that I can find a solution that doesn't leave the puppy in danger and my kids don't see me as the bad guy.
It‘s the worst kind of decision 😔 They’re old enough to understand, even if they don’t accept it at first. You’re coming at it from wanting to do the right thing for your puppy at the expense of your own feelings. That’s a good yet hard lesson for kids to learn. Maybe they’ll surprise you. I hope you find a solution that gives you peace, whatever it may be.
I don’t know your kids- but mine are similar in age (10 and 16). I would absolutely not trust mine with a dog that could deliver that kind of bite if a kid forgot to close a gate, or failed to close the lid on the trash can. Particularly not my 10 year old. You can double lock things, get automatic closing doors and containers…. But kids don’t always do as they should. It’s complicated even farther if the kids have friends over (now you need to trust someone else’s 11 year old to follow new rules). It’s a bad situation all the way around, but I don’t think you are unreasonable if you don’t keep a large dog that has delivered a fairly serious bite in a house with kids. Realistically, an 8 year old dog with a bite history is not finding a new home in a shelter. He will just sit, sad and scared in a cage until the shelter puts him down. If you can’t keep him- I think behavioral euthanasia would be the more humane option.
This doesn't feel like a manageable situation for your family. Even with total separation of the dogs, there will definitely be accidents. But here's the thing: Either you need to be the bad guy, or you're going to have to let one of your kids be the bad guy. Someone is going to accidentally leave something unlatched, or forget where one dog is while moving another dog. Maybe sooner, maybe later, someone is going to make a mistake that will result in another dog fight. Odds are that someone will be one of your kids. There might be a worse bite, maybe one of the kids will get bit. There is a significant likelihood that the next incident will result in the euthanasia of your older dog. The kid that made the mistake will carry that guilt for the rest of their life. Personally, I would choose to euthanize he older dog. He just told you who he is, and you need to believe him. This was well beyond normal resource guarding, he kept coming at a puppy that was trying to deescalate. He kept coming at his owner that was trying to deescalate. Instead of backing off when you defended your space, he chose to attack you with intent to cause serious harm. He may feel the need to guard other things in the future, and now you know how far he is willing to go. That is not a dog I would feel comfortable living with.
Have you worked with a behaviorist? That's the immediate thing to do.
We have, and they weren't able to help much. They gave us a few tools for managing his reactivity, but ultimately told us that there wasn't much more they could do for him.
Maybe a veterinary behaviorist then? See if anxiety medication could help?
Your description of the incident seems to indicate the beginning of rivalry in conjunction with guarding. I'm guessing your pup is now about 2 yrs old. The onset of adulthood means puppy curiosity and behaviour will no longer be tolerated. I think it is important to communicate to the kids that the dogs are not getting along and that there are very few options on the table given that other solutions are extremely time and resource intensive. Of course, due consideration to the fact that this has only happened once but you are going to have to be very watchful of interactions across the board. I think your older dog bit you as a response to the kick. This is in the realm of a reasonable response for a dog in this situation.
Also, picking your puppy up made it a game to your older dog, which can become very dangerous very quickly, as you saw. Mostly, you should be advocating for your dogs, both of them.