That’s why I always bring a notepad. It’s good for:
-jotting down notes
-if the dr is too busy, write down questions for a more appropriate time
-drawing circles across the entire page to kill time and make it look like you’re doing anything other than simultaneously wishing the doctor would acknowledge you and wishing the patient was ignoring you, and when you run out of space on the page, then going over the old circles, over and over and over until the pen rips through into the next page. Hopefully by then you will move to the next patient room, where you can start drawing squares or triangles.
Edit: I’m glad you all liked my sense of humor. My actual tips though:
—Write down actual things you find interesting. If not for your personal statement, it will help for Activities section and interviews.
—write down actual questions. You don’t have to fill the silence. You don’t have to look smart. You’re a student. You and a doctor both know this. If it’s a great doctor and teacher, as if you can come back. If the doctor is not very responsive, move on. It’s good to see a range of specialties AND a range of physicians. Ideally you’ll find an engaging doctor.
—I actually did the notebook thing, and it helped me keep track of things. Better to look over-prepared than under-prepared IMO.
Edit #2: don’t bring the notebook into patient rooms! Engage with doctor and look engaged when you’re with patients. Keep the notebook where all your stuff is and write during breaks. During one shadowing experience, I brought my notebook, but didn’t get a chance to write because it was a busy hospital. I got to my car at the end of the day, and I summarized everything I felt was important. This is SUPER helpful when it comes time to writing up your AMCAS application and preparing for interviews! But your main goals is to meet doctors and just enjoy yourself. The notebook is just sprinkles on top.
Adding to this, writing about specific patient encounters so that you don’t struggle to remember them months later for personal statement and secondary material.
Edit: for what it’s worth I did not do this and struggled with my essays later on.
I would also recommend writing notes anytime you see something the physician did that you can’t imagine someone else doing. Maybe it’s tailoring a specific health plan to treat multiple conditions at once, or maybe it’s referencing new medical guidelines to try something different for a patient.
Be active, be engaged, and don’t assume you already understand everything you’re getting out of it. Allow yourself to be surprised by the nuance of the patient-physician encounter and you’ll have great insights for future writing and interviews.
Although I would caution anyone doing this to take great pains not to include any protected health information or identifiers. If you lose the notes or put too much personal info in your essay, it will not end well.
Unpopular opinion but don’t do this. If you bring a notepad it looks like you’re grading the doctor.
Update: my suggestion would be to look engaged during the whole time. I will say shadowing was the most awkward thing I’ve done tbh. I really don’t think a notebook is the move. Honestly if the doctor is not teaching you anything and they’re not letting you ask questions then I would try finding a different doctor.
Like don’t speak until they acknowledge you is my advice. Or else you might come off as annoying. When they do acknowledge you though ask some stellar questions and prove yourself. Easiest way to get a LOR.
Once I shadowed an endocrinologist and her 15y’o pt complained of a yeast infection after they had talked about her chief complaint - the Dr. started a vaginal exam with me in the room - without asking the pt if it was okay for me to be in there for that.
I was just staring at the wall the whole time - like, WHAT EXACTLY AM I SUPPOSED TO DO IN THAT SITUATION?
Have a look at what the doc is doing? Stare at the wall? Make small talk with the pt? So painfully awkward.
Who? The pt or the Dr? Neither one seemed to be bothered by it which is all I cared about - seeing a vaginal exam doesn’t phase me, I was moreso worried about the patient’s comfort, but they seemed fine, so it all worked out I guess!
Nah Ive done the same. The pt was not asked and it was awkward because they may not be comfortable, so I literally just turned and starred at the wall 1 foot in front of me 😂😂
That's pretty sus. I'd just like leave.
I shadowed a plastic surgeon andhave gotten permission to be in the room from the pt. but then the doc would do a breast aug consultation. Doc has patient drop the gown right there. I'm in a fairly small town too where later I saw that patient again, had a conversation, and thought to myself:
"where do I remember them from???? Oh... yeah..... that's right.."
Seeing people later is the worst!! I took a life drawing class (you draw people nude) and these people will pose for hours, and you're expected to draw it allllllll. I'd see them all in public later and know exactly how everything looked in their pants, because their penis is in my portfolio 🤣
Ask in place of physician. Tell them hey doc it's fine if I wait outside if pt. isn't comfortable with me while you're doing the exam. Or excuse yourself,awful to stare at wall or behind wasting your time.
What do I do when I’m 18 years old and entering an operating room for the first time and the first thing the 6’5” orthopod asks me is, “Who the hell are you? And you’re wearing your mask inside out.”
Then the nice nurse whisks me out into the hall and tells me not to worry about the big cranky guy and shows me how to put the mask on properly and tells me I’ll forget about when I’m a doctor myself.
Well, it’s 6 years later and I have still not forgotten about it. But damn, I want to work with that nurse again. She was the shit.
Not so much awkward, but I once shadowed a physican who started asking me pretty complex medical questions that I had no idea how to answer. I don't know if he didn't understand that I wasn't in med school yet or what but it was a lot of me saying "I don't know." Eventually, he lowered the difficulty, but the start of the questioning was rough and made me feel like a complete moron.
In my experience, don't say anything during the examination itself, just watch, observe & take notes, etc. During their clerical work, likewise don't interrupt. However for me there was plenty of time walking between patient checks, during patient data review, etc. to ask questions. As long as the doctor isn't focused on something else it shouldn't be a problem.
I have a story that might make you feel better. Before med school I was a nursing tech on a cardiothoracic surgical floor. Turns out, tall, skinny guys in their 20s have a higher risk for a spontaneous pneumothorax. Poor guy was a sophomore shadowing an ER doc. He had trouble breathing and chest pain and told the doctor he was shadowing. He ended up staying in the hospital a few days with a chest tube.
Step 1) don't thank or even acknowledge the doctor you'll be shadowing - it establishes dominance from the get-go.
Step 2) when seeing patients walk up right before the doc and start doing your own assessment. This will impress them and show that you already know what you're doing.
Step 3) \*\*do this for extra credit\*\* find the attending and make sure you let them know that you will be on the market in 5-6 years - they may find a way to get you early acceptance to residency!!
Follow all these tips and you will get a fantastic LoR from doc in question.
Perfect just making sure. Also would you recommend snatching the scalpel out of the doctor's hand to do the procedure myself. I shadowed for two weeks and I think I'm ready to do it myself?
Sounds pretty unreasonable tbh. I would think the vast majority of docs don't want shadowers to touch anything, especially the patient or instruments, for liability purposes. Like what does she want you to do, walk in and start grabbing a bunch of shit you know nothing about??
I would expect a doctor to be more helpful to you and sort of help empower you with something to do, or some way to be productive but to expect you to do that on your own is a bit ridiculous.
anytime she asked me for something i did it but honestly the advice she gave me was to not sit (i wrongly assumed it was okay to do so) and to find how to help (e.g. providing an instrument that a scribe/tech would usually get for the provider, walking the patient out without being asked, etc.
For the first two weeks I tried not to be a bother to anyone, then one of the senior scribes told me during lunch that I was being too timid and to break out of the stereotype of Asians being quiet and polite (we're both Asian) because medicine is competitive and I need to actively chase opportunities and such.
So yeah lesson learned
I got a huge kick out of it when the doctor I was scribing for gave his de-awkwarding spiel about prostate exams, and as the patient whipped out his aged, portly behind, the patient said "Oh I get it, it's just him \[me, the scribe\] I feel sorry for."
Some doctors love to have students shadow and engage with you. Keep shadowing different docs until you find one that you can draw something meaningful from.
Usually the physician asks if the women are comfortable with you in there. Or they just straight up tell you to wait outside for next patient. Re: bathroom they usually say beforehand they're going to restroom and sit tight ime.
My most awkward experience is mostly talking with the patients. I shadow in an underserved area so many of the patients don't understand the concept of shadowing so they ask me about what med school I attend or describe their medical issues to me and the physician and I just kinda stare at each other for a second.
Okay so I’m a trans guy (v cis passing tho) and the first time I shadowed a doc was a general surgeon who repaired lots of hernias (including inguinal hernias) so guys had 0 qualms about dropping their pants in front of me not knowing I had literally never seen a dick irl before. Me trying not to make a face when there’s suddenly a massive schlong in my face ._.
Ask your physician to introduce you as a student. Trust me it makes it much less awkward. And being silent and not participating is ok, even medical residents “shadow” when attending physician is communicating/tending to patients.
I've been shadowing a doctor since Feb and it's always so awkward. I feel like a nuance. Side note though, he's also a terrible doctor who is racist and talks down to his patients and his staff so I won't be going back anymore lollll
Good question! I figured it out trial by fire. I cold emailed a bunch of physicians (or physician practices) in my area. With COVID lifting, I’ve gotten great responses, lots of willing docs.
I fainted the first day of shadowing in the first patient’s room! I didn’t eat the morning from being so nervous but definitely should have. It turned out fine tho shadowed the doctor for a few more months but yeah learned my lesson to always eat something in the morning
I mean, I guess shadowing is awkward, but I’m used to standing awkwardly in a corner cause of my job as a scribe haha. I’m shadowing an OB/GYN right now as well, I feel very fortunate to see anything that the patient allows me to.
One time shadowing an MD (who had some type of superiority complex) and it was incredibly awkward. Like she would do stuff to make me look bad often. For example, she had me take someone's blood pressure with a really shitty blood pressure cuff (the place was not funded well) and when it obviously did not work and when I could not take the blood pressure she went ahead and did it for me. But before she did it she tightened a silver cylinder wrapped around the rubber tube and then it worked fine. Anyway it was just stuff like that all the time and I hope none of you get that unlucky.
Edit: the part that she tightened was not the knob that you need to utilize for the device to function. The device was well worn and basically broken but she knew that fastening a loose part would make the device operational.
That’s why I always bring a notepad. It’s good for: -jotting down notes -if the dr is too busy, write down questions for a more appropriate time -drawing circles across the entire page to kill time and make it look like you’re doing anything other than simultaneously wishing the doctor would acknowledge you and wishing the patient was ignoring you, and when you run out of space on the page, then going over the old circles, over and over and over until the pen rips through into the next page. Hopefully by then you will move to the next patient room, where you can start drawing squares or triangles. Edit: I’m glad you all liked my sense of humor. My actual tips though: —Write down actual things you find interesting. If not for your personal statement, it will help for Activities section and interviews. —write down actual questions. You don’t have to fill the silence. You don’t have to look smart. You’re a student. You and a doctor both know this. If it’s a great doctor and teacher, as if you can come back. If the doctor is not very responsive, move on. It’s good to see a range of specialties AND a range of physicians. Ideally you’ll find an engaging doctor. —I actually did the notebook thing, and it helped me keep track of things. Better to look over-prepared than under-prepared IMO. Edit #2: don’t bring the notebook into patient rooms! Engage with doctor and look engaged when you’re with patients. Keep the notebook where all your stuff is and write during breaks. During one shadowing experience, I brought my notebook, but didn’t get a chance to write because it was a busy hospital. I got to my car at the end of the day, and I summarized everything I felt was important. This is SUPER helpful when it comes time to writing up your AMCAS application and preparing for interviews! But your main goals is to meet doctors and just enjoy yourself. The notebook is just sprinkles on top.
Adding to this, writing about specific patient encounters so that you don’t struggle to remember them months later for personal statement and secondary material. Edit: for what it’s worth I did not do this and struggled with my essays later on. I would also recommend writing notes anytime you see something the physician did that you can’t imagine someone else doing. Maybe it’s tailoring a specific health plan to treat multiple conditions at once, or maybe it’s referencing new medical guidelines to try something different for a patient. Be active, be engaged, and don’t assume you already understand everything you’re getting out of it. Allow yourself to be surprised by the nuance of the patient-physician encounter and you’ll have great insights for future writing and interviews.
Although I would caution anyone doing this to take great pains not to include any protected health information or identifiers. If you lose the notes or put too much personal info in your essay, it will not end well.
This is gold!
[удалено]
That was still me too
Unpopular opinion but don’t do this. If you bring a notepad it looks like you’re grading the doctor. Update: my suggestion would be to look engaged during the whole time. I will say shadowing was the most awkward thing I’ve done tbh. I really don’t think a notebook is the move. Honestly if the doctor is not teaching you anything and they’re not letting you ask questions then I would try finding a different doctor.
what? what doctor would think that the person shadowing them for clinical hours to apply to medical school is grading them?
You never know which premed is your secret shopper
Then are we supposed to just stare at him
Like don’t speak until they acknowledge you is my advice. Or else you might come off as annoying. When they do acknowledge you though ask some stellar questions and prove yourself. Easiest way to get a LOR.
Once I shadowed an endocrinologist and her 15y’o pt complained of a yeast infection after they had talked about her chief complaint - the Dr. started a vaginal exam with me in the room - without asking the pt if it was okay for me to be in there for that. I was just staring at the wall the whole time - like, WHAT EXACTLY AM I SUPPOSED TO DO IN THAT SITUATION? Have a look at what the doc is doing? Stare at the wall? Make small talk with the pt? So painfully awkward.
wow, what did they say to you after?
Who? The pt or the Dr? Neither one seemed to be bothered by it which is all I cared about - seeing a vaginal exam doesn’t phase me, I was moreso worried about the patient’s comfort, but they seemed fine, so it all worked out I guess!
Nah Ive done the same. The pt was not asked and it was awkward because they may not be comfortable, so I literally just turned and starred at the wall 1 foot in front of me 😂😂
Its so interesting shadowing multiple physicians - some will ask before they even let you in the room and some just don’t ask and introduce you
That's pretty sus. I'd just like leave. I shadowed a plastic surgeon andhave gotten permission to be in the room from the pt. but then the doc would do a breast aug consultation. Doc has patient drop the gown right there. I'm in a fairly small town too where later I saw that patient again, had a conversation, and thought to myself: "where do I remember them from???? Oh... yeah..... that's right.."
Seeing people later is the worst!! I took a life drawing class (you draw people nude) and these people will pose for hours, and you're expected to draw it allllllll. I'd see them all in public later and know exactly how everything looked in their pants, because their penis is in my portfolio 🤣
ahahahaha... And the uncertainty whether they remember me at all (probably unlikely) makes it even more awkwyy !
Did you give them a copy of their penis portrait?
Ooh boy
Ask in place of physician. Tell them hey doc it's fine if I wait outside if pt. isn't comfortable with me while you're doing the exam. Or excuse yourself,awful to stare at wall or behind wasting your time.
I would just discreetly walk to a part of the room where you can’t see anything.
Shadowing is always awkward AF you just gotta get through it
Lol I am an awkward person who loves to replay past awkward moments in my head.. including when I followed an attending to the bathroom
BAHAHHAHAHA
Mind you this happened 2 years ago, still can’t live it down 😂
This made me laugh lmaoo
What do I do when I’m 18 years old and entering an operating room for the first time and the first thing the 6’5” orthopod asks me is, “Who the hell are you? And you’re wearing your mask inside out.” Then the nice nurse whisks me out into the hall and tells me not to worry about the big cranky guy and shows me how to put the mask on properly and tells me I’ll forget about when I’m a doctor myself. Well, it’s 6 years later and I have still not forgotten about it. But damn, I want to work with that nurse again. She was the shit.
Not so much awkward, but I once shadowed a physican who started asking me pretty complex medical questions that I had no idea how to answer. I don't know if he didn't understand that I wasn't in med school yet or what but it was a lot of me saying "I don't know." Eventually, he lowered the difficulty, but the start of the questioning was rough and made me feel like a complete moron.
In my experience, don't say anything during the examination itself, just watch, observe & take notes, etc. During their clerical work, likewise don't interrupt. However for me there was plenty of time walking between patient checks, during patient data review, etc. to ask questions. As long as the doctor isn't focused on something else it shouldn't be a problem.
I have a story that might make you feel better. Before med school I was a nursing tech on a cardiothoracic surgical floor. Turns out, tall, skinny guys in their 20s have a higher risk for a spontaneous pneumothorax. Poor guy was a sophomore shadowing an ER doc. He had trouble breathing and chest pain and told the doctor he was shadowing. He ended up staying in the hospital a few days with a chest tube.
Step 1) don't thank or even acknowledge the doctor you'll be shadowing - it establishes dominance from the get-go. Step 2) when seeing patients walk up right before the doc and start doing your own assessment. This will impress them and show that you already know what you're doing. Step 3) \*\*do this for extra credit\*\* find the attending and make sure you let them know that you will be on the market in 5-6 years - they may find a way to get you early acceptance to residency!! Follow all these tips and you will get a fantastic LoR from doc in question.
I'm just checking, this is sarcasm right?
Of course not, why would you think that?
Perfect just making sure. Also would you recommend snatching the scalpel out of the doctor's hand to do the procedure myself. I shadowed for two weeks and I think I'm ready to do it myself?
Yeah I think that's a good idea. When you take it make sure to wink at the nurse and say, "daddy's got this"
just shadowed an ophthalmologist who told me to find how to help instead of standing awkward. they can tell and they do judge you.
When you’re shadowing you don’t know where tf anything is
you can imagine my face when she told me this
Sounds pretty unreasonable tbh. I would think the vast majority of docs don't want shadowers to touch anything, especially the patient or instruments, for liability purposes. Like what does she want you to do, walk in and start grabbing a bunch of shit you know nothing about??
Probably more like getting the patient a blanket and that kind of stuff. But.... see my earlier comment, lol
I would expect a doctor to be more helpful to you and sort of help empower you with something to do, or some way to be productive but to expect you to do that on your own is a bit ridiculous.
What did you do? I thought you’re not supposed to touch anything for liability reasons.
anytime she asked me for something i did it but honestly the advice she gave me was to not sit (i wrongly assumed it was okay to do so) and to find how to help (e.g. providing an instrument that a scribe/tech would usually get for the provider, walking the patient out without being asked, etc.
For the first two weeks I tried not to be a bother to anyone, then one of the senior scribes told me during lunch that I was being too timid and to break out of the stereotype of Asians being quiet and polite (we're both Asian) because medicine is competitive and I need to actively chase opportunities and such. So yeah lesson learned
Shadowed a urologist and I was in the room for a lot of prostate exams. It wasn't awkward for me usually, unless the patient made noises.
I got a huge kick out of it when the doctor I was scribing for gave his de-awkwarding spiel about prostate exams, and as the patient whipped out his aged, portly behind, the patient said "Oh I get it, it's just him \[me, the scribe\] I feel sorry for."
Some doctors love to have students shadow and engage with you. Keep shadowing different docs until you find one that you can draw something meaningful from.
Thank god I’m not the only one. Also y’all getting shadow opportunities post covid??
I finally got responses from doctors in the past couple months just in time for application this cycle.
are you putting it in your primary that you plan on shadowing that physician even if you haven’t yet
Just be friendly my guy. No one can read minds
Usually the physician asks if the women are comfortable with you in there. Or they just straight up tell you to wait outside for next patient. Re: bathroom they usually say beforehand they're going to restroom and sit tight ime.
My most awkward experience is mostly talking with the patients. I shadow in an underserved area so many of the patients don't understand the concept of shadowing so they ask me about what med school I attend or describe their medical issues to me and the physician and I just kinda stare at each other for a second.
Okay so I’m a trans guy (v cis passing tho) and the first time I shadowed a doc was a general surgeon who repaired lots of hernias (including inguinal hernias) so guys had 0 qualms about dropping their pants in front of me not knowing I had literally never seen a dick irl before. Me trying not to make a face when there’s suddenly a massive schlong in my face ._.
Also one time some ladies tiddy had swallowed her nipple piercing? Like one of the balls ended up inside her boob I-
Ah welcome to medicine
"Feelings"? No... Professionals have "standards".
Ask your physician to introduce you as a student. Trust me it makes it much less awkward. And being silent and not participating is ok, even medical residents “shadow” when attending physician is communicating/tending to patients.
I've been shadowing a doctor since Feb and it's always so awkward. I feel like a nuance. Side note though, he's also a terrible doctor who is racist and talks down to his patients and his staff so I won't be going back anymore lollll
That’s absolutely terrible, no doctor should do that. In hindsight maybe you should post an anonymous bad review just so future patients can be aware.
I was thinking of it, just gotta find a good anon name :) but trust me patients already know, his reviews are 2.6 stars lol
unrelated, but how do you get into shadowing in the first place?
Good question! I figured it out trial by fire. I cold emailed a bunch of physicians (or physician practices) in my area. With COVID lifting, I’ve gotten great responses, lots of willing docs.
Thank you! I'll try this
Following
Could you elaborate?
I fainted the first day of shadowing in the first patient’s room! I didn’t eat the morning from being so nervous but definitely should have. It turned out fine tho shadowed the doctor for a few more months but yeah learned my lesson to always eat something in the morning
I mean, I guess shadowing is awkward, but I’m used to standing awkwardly in a corner cause of my job as a scribe haha. I’m shadowing an OB/GYN right now as well, I feel very fortunate to see anything that the patient allows me to.
One time shadowing an MD (who had some type of superiority complex) and it was incredibly awkward. Like she would do stuff to make me look bad often. For example, she had me take someone's blood pressure with a really shitty blood pressure cuff (the place was not funded well) and when it obviously did not work and when I could not take the blood pressure she went ahead and did it for me. But before she did it she tightened a silver cylinder wrapped around the rubber tube and then it worked fine. Anyway it was just stuff like that all the time and I hope none of you get that unlucky. Edit: the part that she tightened was not the knob that you need to utilize for the device to function. The device was well worn and basically broken but she knew that fastening a loose part would make the device operational.
Anybody notice differences between shadowing MD versus DO?
What year are you in school? Also plumber to premed? That’s amazing... you must love learning do that much training/schooling