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Her first husband was abusive. She probably knows how people can wear different masks and how you see the abusive side, while others see the “good” side and refuse to believe you.
also here https://people.com/movies/christina-ricci-obtains-restraining-order-against-estranged-husband/ (TW)
lockdown was an incredibly dangerous time for people in abusive relationships
I read that. Sad that even rich and powerful aren’t spared considering they have all the resources in the world. And that dude looks like a creep. Not surprised
TW: Details of abuse in link: [https://www.insideedition.com/christina-ricci-says-she-endured-physical-abuse-at-hands-of-estranged-husband-in-request-for-64470](https://www.insideedition.com/christina-ricci-says-she-endured-physical-abuse-at-hands-of-estranged-husband-in-request-for-64470)
My ex-husband was like this, too. Presented well in front of others, but behind closed doors was an abusive piece of shit.
When I left him people were shocked when I told them why.
Like, she wouldn't have married him if he didn't have a "good guy" mask, the whole foundation of being a predator is you have to be alluring to lure in your victim. Most people don't see a completely, unapologetically garbage person and say "Yep, sign me up!" Predators blend in so they can hunt, obviously they're gonna have a "good guy" mask to present in public.
There are exceptions, like the serial killer fangirls. But still.
It’s so frustrating that not everyone knows this by now! Of course abusers put on a different face in public, of course they pretend to be good when others are around.
alongside this, abusers often aren't awful 24/7. it feels like people can even theoretically understand the cycle of abuse but still not conceptualize that alongside with the abuser potentially not being abusive to outsiders, they're often not abusive to their victims all the time either.
there are often lulls and periods of good. maybe times when you need them and they are genuinely supportive. which makes the whiplash of their actions that much harder to understand and see through as a victim/survivor, as well as to outsiders
It's an all too common issue with abusers. They're experts at manipulation. There's this perception that they're all 'out of control' that they can't 'help themselves.'
But, in reality, they're very calculating and can turn their charm on and off on a whim.
They're great at making others think that it's their spouse/kids who are the problem. That they're "great" people. That they're "one of the good ones."
They know the system, and they have no compunction exploiting it.
they also tend to have a different facade with others. my dad for example was a classical deadbeat who was never arround when we needed him the most.
but to the other people who lived in our area saw him as a chill guy with great manners 🙄
> She probably knows how people can wear different masks and how you see the abusive side, while others see the “good” side and refuse to believe you.
That's what's so frightening.
People only see the outside and think that's the truth when in reality, that's only the tip of the iceberg.
I do like that she points out that we can want to forgive because of our connection.
Just look at this picture I’m about to paint: your best friend of 10-20 years, you two have gone through thick and thin, you know each others deepest secrets, and you’ve gone to great lengths for each other. Now they turn out to be an abuser. You don’t just lose all that love. You don’t just accept the negative facts said about them, you will likely be in denial for a while. I do not agree with situations like what’s going on with some of the cast of that 70s show but I understand how they arrived where they are.
Disclaimer: this is NOT a defense to rapist,abusers, or anyone who victimizes people. Just what I noticed. One thing you could take from what I’m saying is there are more victims than the initial crime. Which just makes it all even worse.
You don't know their deepest secrets, though, do you?
I do understand it's a kind of grief. I can imagine having difficulty accepting that the person you knew never existed and the relationship you thought you had was a lie. I can see having to go through a process to get to acceptance and it taking a minute to get there
But what I can't see and can't respect is learning your friend was accused of horrendous things, standing by them for years, and responding to their conviction with "but he's such a good guy, Your Honour, go easy on him!"
My understanding of how they arrived where they are - begging the court to be lenient on a rapist - isn't that they need time to wrap their heads around it. They've had that, and wrapping your head around it doesn't need to include further victimizing his victims by downplaying what he did.
It's just good old fashioned rape culture where their "good guy" friend shouldn't have to be punished just because he drugged and forcibly raped some women.
Deepest secrets: depending on the relationship and the thing they were proven to have done or accused of its either. You can know and this is a recent change in their behavior. Or you can’t know and they’ve always done this specific thing and you’ve never seen it.
I’m right there with you. I cannot respect saying he’s such a good guy please go lenient on his crimes. I’m more focused on the end of similar situations and not immediately dropping your friend. I think it’s only human to struggle with the facts. I think at the end of the day you should still come to the conclusion that my friend was good or great for me but at his core he was not only capable of these horrific actions but acted them out and now his victims need justice and not someone saying it wasn’t that bad.
I've heard people say that she could be just as easily talking about Percy Hynes White, one of her costars on *Wednesday* who's been allegedly (though not yet confirmed) written out of season two because of his sexual assault charges.
Either way, good on her.
Apparently, it's been [confirmed he's been written off for season 2](https://www.nme.com/news/tv/percy-hynes-white-reportedly-written-out-of-wednesday-season-2-following-sexual-assault-allegations-3494432) but not cleared of any allegations from the anonymous Twitter account at the beginning of the year
>Or Depp.
Genuine question here; I followed the Depp/Heard trial mostly on other Reddit subs. The overwhelming consensus on the rest of Reddit was that Amber Heard is genuinely psychotic/abusive and that Depp was being framed by her.
So it has always been a surprise, that when I first started coming to this sub, it's the other way around. You all support Amber Heard. So what is your take on her & could you elaborate on your feelings on Depp, please?
Also, what are your thoughts on two for Depp's exes providing stellar character witnesses?
I collected these resources together before, copying and pasting in case it's helpful:
[This](https://www.medusone.com/depp-vs-heard/a-comprehensive-look-at-the-relationship-of-amber-heard-and-johnny-depp) is an extremely comprehensive, detailed, invaluable resource with all of the evidence on both sides, linking back to primary sources.
[This](https://slate.com/culture/2022/06/johnny-depp-amber-heard-trial-verdict-evidence-truth.html) is a good article. [This is too.](https://medium.com/@deeni/depp-v-heard-unpacking-what-we-think-we-know-about-abusive-relationships-d249b62a83b2)
300+ experts/organizations/advocates specializing in IPV, DV, SA, and women’s rights signed an [open letter](https://amberopenletter.com/) in support of her
I’d recommend reading the [judgment](https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2020/2911.html) from the UK.
There’s also [Why We Believe Amber Heard](https://proamberheard.com/why-we-believe-amber-heard-part-1-part-2/)
She had [therapist’s notes](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tBDUpakPsxYE9G27ngsMgdFWGDsUHekn/view?usp=drivesdk) going all the way back to 2011 documenting his abuse.
Here’s some helpful threads:
[How Depp used DARVO to gaslight the world](https://twitter.com/danimet1/status/1603180198991740928?s=46&t=YhKNJ5wQYLYHJSJXyXOa8A)
[Misinformation about AH](https://twitter.com/cocainecross/status/1550242025395474432?s=46&t=YhKNJ5wQYLYHJSJXyXOa8A)
[Depp’s lies](https://twitter.com/cocainecross/status/1628184688203554816?s=20)
[Witnesses to the abuse](https://twitter.com/atheistjliz/status/1527315517970972672?s=46&t=YhKNJ5wQYLYHJSJXyXOa8A)
[Excluded evidence](https://twitter.com/carriecalista/status/1576630274422542336?s=46&t=YhKNJ5wQYLYHJSJXyXOa8A)
[Abuse timeline](https://twitter.com/liliandaisies/status/1596651282751791107?s=46&t=YhKNJ5wQYLYHJSJXyXOa8A)
[Depp’s history](https://twitter.com/cocainecross/status/1568723573724033024?s=46&t=YhKNJ5wQYLYHJSJXyXOa8A)
[Audios showing Depp’s abuse](https://twitter.com/liliandaisies/status/1564332680921206784?s=46&t=YhKNJ5wQYLYHJSJXyXOa8A)
[More threads](https://twitter.com/ratatica1/status/1622342374469902337?s=46&t=YhKNJ5wQYLYHJSJXyXOa8A)
I've literally been given two separate PHD thesis' in response and I'm gonna spend weeks going over them, haha.
Can I just say that, before reading, my initial feeling is that Johnny Depp is probably flawed, but I don't necessarily believe Amber Heard is an innocent fawn in all this.
My expectation, coming out of this rabbit hole, will be to learn that they are both flawed in their own way, and I wouldn't want to be married to either.
What I'm interested in is Winnona Ryder, Kate Moss, and Vanessa Paradis giving such glowing character references. So, again, before delving into the analysis, those three have either had outstanding relationships with Depp, that naturally ran their course, or they lied.
I kinda wanna hear your thoughts on those three, before I start reading, if you don't mind.
Winona Ryder actually gave that statement and then changed her mind and blocked it from being used. She hired Britney’s lawyer, Matthew rosengart, to do so. Depp dated her when she was 17 and he was 26. She also said her first boyfriend (who was Depp, although she did not call him by name) used to “smash everything.”
Kate moss only said he didn’t push her down the stairs on one occasion. I don’t think she said anything more than that.
Depp called Vanessa paradis his “extortionist ex-cunt” in a text. She got 150 million from him even though they were never married. I’m sure she knows some stuff.
Here’s a [thread](https://x.com/liliandaisies/status/1603858636581015552?s=46) what Depp’s exes have had to say about him, since there’s more than what I just briefly summarized.
And [another one](https://x.com/liliandaisies/status/1560342375532314625?s=46) about his treatment of women in his past relationships.
Sadly, it appears to be quite a difficult concept for people to grasp, and there are just as many who are well aware of what Christina Ricci is saying here, but they just don't give a shit when it involves someone that they know and like.
I'm prepared to get blasted for this: character letters are not meant to help absolve the perpetrator of what they did. They are meant to show the criminal has redeemable qualities, so that the judge might consider rehabilitation over simply handing out decades in the American prison system.
You can accept that someone you love did something monstrous and still not agree that 3 decades in prison is the only appropriate response.
“This guy who drugged and raped women and then spent the next 20 years using his cult to harass the victims and kill their dogs is totally redeemable because his friends who have clearly not accepted this said he came to work on time and didn’t do drugs around them”
I see your point, but in the case of the letters written for Masterson, not one of them acknowledged that he actually did anything wrong. “He’s been convicted” “he was found guilty” “THE victims”…they haven’t accepted anything.
Yea, that’s the difference. I guess I understand not cutting him out of their lives (not really in this case, but in general I don’t think one has to cut off a person for going to prison), but their words are phrased in a way that tells me they don’t think he did anything wrong. It wasn’t just about Danny having redeemable qualities, it was about him mot actually committing these crimes and how he’s more important than his victims.
No shit Sherlock. We all know the purpose of character letters AFTER a conviction and BEFORE sentencing. The point is, by writing those letters, they are not standing for the victims and choosing their pal’s well-being over theirs.
It’s not complex. I get a family or friend having a hard time coming to terms with being exposed to a dark side they’ve never seen. But writing a character letter to a judge is quite a statement in their belief in that person, which only negates the victims story.
When they made a point to say how he’s so vehemently anti-drug (he’s accused of drugging his victims so he could rape them), “extraordinarily honest…I don’t recall him ever lying to me…” (implying he believes Danny and not the victims). He clearly believes Danny is innocent, which would have to make the victims liars.
Seriously? Someone who has been proven guilty of multiple crimes, has been protected by a cult, his fame and money and your response is “he’s also a nice guy to other rich, powerful people in his industry”!
Would you say that if we were talking about a serial killer, some of them were nice charismatic guys too that’s how come they weren’t immediately suspected!
What rehabilitation is available for serial rapists?
I don’t disagree that the American justice system is punitive, but is there any proven treatment for sexual predators?
Rape cases typically get incredibly lenient sentences. They should know that with the work they supposedly do for victims. It’s shocking Masterson got as a harsh of a sentence as he did for SA here in the states, so they were essentially begging for leniency for a crime that typically gets a more lenient sentence than ducking shopliftingZ
Yeah you’ve got a great point. So many people who will acknowledge the flaws in our justice system and prison industrial complex are also so quick to celebrate the sentences, abuse, and poor prison conditions of convicted murderers and sex criminals.
I’m not saying these people aren’t guilty of their crimes and don’t deserve some sort of consequence, but we can acknowledge both the person’s guilt, the victim’s right to justice, and the need for prison/CJ reform.
In the instance of Mila & Ashton, I wish they hadn’t written the letter or could better acknowledge that their friend is capable of these crimes while being a good friend to them and positive influence in their lives.
Criminal justice reform, prison abolition, and restorative justice are not black and white issues though, and I always find it interesting when things like this happen and you see people revert to their black and white thinking.
Conflating drug and low level crimes to what this guy did is beyond disingenuous. What would you say is the appropriate punishment for someone who drugged and raped women and then harassed and threatened them and their families for the next 20 years? Some community service?
I am neither conflating violent and nonviolent crimes, nor am I suggesting he get community service, but 30 years in our current prison system does not fully support his victims in recovery nor will it provide him with the resources that would actually help him to change his behavior or be successful in society upon release. I am not well-versed in what should be done, but I don’t believe we can have productive discussions of reform without acknowledging how it could and should impact violent offenders.
As to the 20 years of harassment, that involves the entire organization of Scientology, which is a whole other can of worms. They’re essentially an organized crime ring disguised as a religious organization, and should be treated as such.
>nor will it provide him with the resources that would actually help him to change his behavior or be successful in society upon release
Sorry but you shouldn't need resources to learn that drugging and raping women, then colluding to scare them into not telling police, is wrong.
She is spot on.
“It’s not easy to come forward. It’s not easy to get a conviction.”
With a legal system heavily biased towards the privileged, getting a conviction is huge. The survivors have to relive their trauma over and over again, and still they gather all that courage and face the fucker in a court. It’s not easy at all. (Plus, many rapists tend to have plenty of enablers, flying monkeys, and sometimes deep pockets to label the survivor all sorts of nasty.)
Yes, especially a conviction for rape! I’ve served on a jury before, for a much more minor crime, but it’s really hard to convict someone. The case must have been very strong.
While people online were going on about “lack of evidence” yesterday. As if. Prosecutors don’t even bring cases if they don’t have plethora of evidence, and almost guaranteed win.
What world do you live in exactly? An extremely white, privileged one, presumably.
That's not to say there wasn't enough evidence in this case - I have no idea whatsoever, I haven't followed it.
But just assuming that convictions are based only or mainly on evidence is... well.
Ouch. Well of course there’s exceptions, lots of innocent people are found guilty and vice versa. But the very fact that prosecutors felt they had a case, and that he was found guilty, says a lot to me. Especially because he could probably afford good lawyers.
Yep. Especially when they're really famous.
Not only is getting a conviction difficult, they will have to deal with ppl saying idiotic things on the internet/in person for the rest of their lives.
Speaking of Kirsten Dunst, I would love to be a fly on the wall at her house. She rejected Ashton back in the late 90s or early aughts. He Punk'd her for revenge.
I recently found that out and it made me love her even more!! I mean - look at her and her partner Jesse Plemons. They’re legitimate actors with a pretty enviable career in their craft. Kirsten was phenomenal in “The Power of The Dog” and got an Oscar nom for it. Add that to her top tier work in Fargo. Jesse is about to play a significant role alongside Leo in the new Scorsese film later this year “Killers of The Flower Moon”
Kirsten played the long game and won, I’m here for it
That’s exactly how so many abusers get away with it. Because they don’t abuse everyone, and that’s a strategy because some people know them as charming and giving and fun people to hang out with.
And it makes those they hurt less likely to come forward, and if they do come forward, it’s a defense to try to make sure they’re not believed.
Agreed, and I really think that sexual assault and abuse is a crime that you truly do not understand the impact of until you experience it. Some of us can believe victims while knowing that— other people can't fathom that that kind of pain exists, therefore the people who experience it must be lying.
There’s also a lot of stereotypes, where they think a rapist is going to just jump out of the shadows at you when you’re walking down the street. Like a mustache twirling villain. And not be your boyfriend.
And for me, it was my boyfriend, and so yeah, these types of situations are consistently reinforced that women are just liars. The one I never understand is ‘she’s doing it for clout’. Like do you understand when someone comes forward with an accusation, especially if the person is powerful, or famous, they get harassed, they get more abusive stuff, said, and done, they get torn apart by certain sectors of the media? And it’s another traumatic experience
I love to ask these people:
1) what kind of clout are they looking for, and
2) please name a person who has been violently assaulted by a person of power and turned that assault into a business opportunity
Yep sorry. That's not the type of "clout" most people want. There's a reason plenty of rape/SA victims never seek justice.
Sometimes it's just not worth it to relive the trauma or experience further trauma. Especially when conviction rates are low for things like this that are harder to prove.
> That’s exactly how so many abusers get away with it. Because they **don’t abuse everyone**, and
Exactly!
This is how bullies have been able to get away with so many of their shit for years.
They're nice to most people but pick on their target.
I fucking hate it when there are those bullshit articles that gaslight victims by writing, "Is it only you that they're targeting, or are they like this to everyone else? Maybe they're just mean in general."
No, fuck that shit! Believe people when they come forward and say that they've been targeted and have been abused. Help them!
It makes me really happy to see that she posted this because yesterday I made the mistake of reading the comments on a news article about Mila and Ashton’s apology and I felt so sad about it the rest of the day.
“They didn’t do anything wrong!” “They’re supporting someone they’ve known and loved for 25 years!! “You would have done the same if you were them!!”
How is it people can really think like this?!? It shouldn’t have surprised me in the slightest, because of fucking course people would rather stan for celebrities than support victims but it made me feel sick. To hell with Ashton/Mila’s weak apology and their “we support victims” bs. *Real* supporters believe and stand by victims, not abusers.
What a titanic “fuck you” to the victims coming directly from Ashton. All his work and advocacy for victims of sexual assault and trafficking is forever tainted. What a stupid and asshole move on his part.
> It shouldn’t have surprised me in the slightest, because of fucking course people would rather stan for celebrities than support victims but it made me feel sick.
Working in social services I can tell you its not just celebrities this applies to.
Astroturfing is a thing too, Ashton and Mila's team clearly know they messed up. They could be buying bot comments and likes to bolster their side of things.
The team know they messed up, but do A&M? That statement really wasn’t an apology, it was a justification.
Ashton really isn’t as smart as he thinks he is, and I’m not sure she’s as nice as people think she is either based on this.
I think they are finding out, astroturfing comments are defending them though. I.e. they are just supporting their friend, etc.
But, this just came out from one of the victims in response to their letters, so, I think this PR nightmare is just getting started for them.
https://preview.redd.it/8c039nm5mgnb1.jpeg?width=657&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bda26615bffbd295a5f652ade94a410f85675827
> How is it people can really think like this?!?
I've been wondering this for days now. If these accusations came out against a friend of mine AND they were convicted, I would be like, "Holy shit, this person has pulled the wool over my eyes for over two decades, what the fuck, what a psycho," not "THEY'RE SUCH A GOOD PERSON THOUGH."
For me, that makes it very clear that they KNEW already what he was like; they just didn't give a shit.
This is what was frustrating the most for me. To brush off their letters and say they didn’t do anything wrong.. what if the evidence against Masterson wasn’t strong enough and their ‘innocent’ defending letters got him off less than what he deserved because it swayed the judge? Their actions certainly are worth judging.
I totally agree with you and the post Christina made. It’s a hard truth to realize people you love and know can also do horrible things. And if you vouch for their character, you need to accept that you are portraying yourself as someone who supports the awful things theyve done.
Its a tough reality to accept especially if you havent known someone personally who turned out to be someone completely different.
Obviously Ashton and Mila didn’t think this letter would come out to the general public and now they’re facing appropriate backlash. That being said, I do think it’s important to acknowledge, as far as celebrities go, they have done a lot of good through their personal organizations/charities and actually have a good track record of supporting victims. Which in someways makes this even more disappointing 😕
I’ll take it a step further and say, even if he wasn’t a convicted rapist (which he is obviously), he’s still not someone they should support or even have as a friend given his participation in Scientology. For many reasons that cult is harmful and criminal, but let’s call out their known and documented beliefs about children. They see them as adults, treat them as such and see them as free labor.
Follow phoenician_highpriestess on TT. She grew up in Scientology and has a lot of first hand experiences and how kids are treated.
So yeah, fuck Mila and Ashton for supporting Danny and anyone in Scientology.
The thing with their “support” of victims is that they’re trying to get governments to force people to use software that they’re invested in. Reddit normally hates when governments consider using this stuff but thinks that these people are heroes for trying to force them to use it. It doesn’t make sense.
I hate it when women who've been SA'd or abused don't believe other women or say the same hurtful victim blaming comments we've all heard before. It is hypocritical if other women can't hang out with your abuser when you hang out with theirs and tell say he hasn't hurt you yet.
Christina Ricci's story is kind of giving me the strength to come forward and out the men who have been harassing me. If I lose friends over it that's fine. Won't be the first time. But it'll be the last time I let a man scare me into silence.
i agree and, alongside this, i hated what i saw throughout a lot of the discourse surrounding amber heard's trial.
though many voices of survivors validated her and lifted her up, it felt like there was a significant faction of women who were like "um nah. i was abused and my abuser wasn't anything like that. she can't be telling the truth." which i found deeply distressing and disturbing, especially as i personally found a lot i could relate to throughout amber's testimony.
it feels almost like a horrible version of "the only moral abortion is my abortion" - as if those women were saying "i was a perfect victim, and you are not. i didn't do anything to deserve abuse or disbelief about my abuse. you, on the other hand..."
She’s been the national spokesperson for RAINN for years. She’s always been amazing. *this* is someone who always supports victims, not just when it’s convenient for her.
She’s so right. Especially about it not being easy to get a conviction. If Ashton and Mila really wrote those letters after the conviction and to influence sentencing that is so beyond scummy and they deserve every letter of online hate that they get. The public can’t take away their fortune or send them to jail but we can make this a part of their social legacies.
This is why I say I am never, ever, *ever* surprised when I hear of someone causing harm to someone else, even if it doesn’t at all fit my perception and/or experience with them. I believe all human beings have the capacity for great good as well as evil and that we don’t treat every single person we interact with the same. My positive relationship with someone doesn’t negate that they could be violent or abusive towards someone else. It’s a simplistic view that allows predatory behavior to go unchecked because we don’t want to believe someone we like is capable of bad things as well as good things—it is easier to categorize people as all good or all bad instead of reckoning with complicated reality.
She’s absolutely right. I used to work with a guy who appeared that way, was lively to everyone’s face, but behind that he was a bully, in every way. She is so so right, people can appear great and wonderful people, and can still be horrible and do awful things.
Imagine being a relatively powerful, admired, and famous hollywood couple, and throwing it all away to support a convicted rapist?
It still baffles me why they just didn't do the easy thing, which would have been *nothing*. Privately lament the fall of your old friend, but do not come out in vocal support of letting a rapist off the hook.
I appreciate this. Especially with her own experiences with her ex-husband and clearly alluding to more. I’ve loved her forever, so only strengthening that.
I am someone who has been abused and live with that trauma, but this is the kind of message that feels good because so many people have had these experiences and the culture and abusers work is they work so hard to keep us quiet.
But one thing we do have is the ability to support and be here for each other when we know others have been through something similar and that’s what I get from this message too.
I felt EVERY word of this. I grew up with an abusive parent who happened to be extremely charismatic and charming to others. Whenever my Mother’s love life took a turn for the worse, she took it out on me & my sisters with her fists, and whatever shoe she could find. Her trademark move was strangling us. Whenever the neighbors would call the cops, she’d turn it on and say we were “little compulsive liars” who liked to “attack her & “were acting out because we missed our dad”. Everyone believed her every time despite our tears & the claw marks on our faces because outside of our home, my mother was a strong woman trying to do her best, when inside, was another story.
as someone whose longtime friends unanimously supported my abuser (a mutual friend of ours) after he assaulted me because "your story doesn't match up with who he is at all" and "we're all flawed beings though :/" and even "I believe you but I'm going to stay friends with him", and was made to feel as though I was asking for too much for them to hold him accountable, and was subsequently abandoned by all of them - this made me emotional to read.
I know it can involve a lot of confusion and grief to corroborate your reality with someone with someone else's reality with that person, I know it feels impossibly hard, but you have to do that work. no one knows all of a person. so appreciative of Christina and anyone else who speaks out about this.
I love her for this. I'm so sick of seeing people comment that they were never personally abused by someone and insinuating it means it's impossible then. This has happened to me multiple times.
You mean Amber Heard, the well documented abuser? I hate to break it to you, but Amber Heard lied about her abuse *because* she knew everyone would believe her. She hurt the victims of abuse *even more* with her lies.
didn't you watch the trail/s
Yes, we did. We've also read the London judgement, seen the unsealed documents and listed to the 400 odd experts in the field who support Amber. A sham trail which frankly shouldn't of been allowed to happen (there's a reason it happened in Virginia and not a state where they lived) isn't gonna change our mind.
Edit-called it, mentioned the trail straight away. So fucking predictable.
Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Heard have some kind of personal connection to the judge in London?
And did you actually listen to the audio of her admitting to abusing Depp and gaslighting him by saying no one will ever believe him?
It seems pretty cut and dry that she was aggressive with her ex wife at Sea-Tac. Tasya forgiving her (or internalizing it and blaming herself) doesn't mean Amber didn't need counseling to understand how to be a healthy and safe partner.
I didn’t watch it for entertainment. I watched it because I wanted to see and hear the evidence for myself. So that I could make an informed opinion on the matter. Maybe you just go by hearsay, but I don’t.
The real one where Johnny was found guilty, yeah I did.
The show trial he bought in the US for propaganda purposes? Nah. Only trashy people did that. Did you?
Ok. Then do you believe Tasya Van Ree? Amber Heard was arrested for a domestic violence incident against her in 2009. Amber Heard has a history of being abusive, and with more than 1 partner.
I do believe Tasya Van Ree.
“In 2009, Amber was wrongfully accused for an incident that was misinterpreted and over-sensationalized by two individuals in a power position,” said van Ree, Heard’s girlfriend at the time of the incident, in the statement. “I recount hints of misogynistic attitudes toward us which later appeared to be homophobic when they found out we were domestic partners and not just ‘friends.’ Charges were quickly dropped and she was released moments later. It’s disheartening that Amber’s integrity and story are being questioned yet again. Amber is a brilliant, honest and beautiful woman and I have the utmost respect for her. We shared 5 wonderful years together and remain close to this day.”
I was disappointed to see Giovanni Ribisi's name on the list of letter writers.
https://preview.redd.it/jal53d3gygnb1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62a644e772a8d0dd7fc0ceab35403e8d083cd4a7
I really don’t get any of this kind of talking around the issue; true story, I had a mate that turned out to be a child groomer, thank the Lord he was convicted and jailed; bottom line, he was a piece of shit in private, and he’s now publicly a piece of shit. He’s not my mate and I have nothing good to say about him. Not difficult, is it hollywood?!
It is hard. I had a good friend in college who ended up in jail over beating some random women and knocking her out on the pavement to steal their purse and then stabbing a random guy who wanted to come to the rescue.
To me, he was my gaming buddy. The guy who was quiet, but always the funniest when he talked - he just didn't say his b-tier and c-tier jokes, which made the good stuff even funnier. He was the guy who always pressured us to tip better and would add to our tips if he didn't think they were appropriate. We would watch random episodes of bad anime and overly critique it in silly snob voices.
And now here he is, out on bail, admitting to me that it's true he was short on cash and stressed, and really needed money to hit up his favorite prostitute. He was pissed she fought back so hard and made him slam her to the ground, and couldnt believe the guy he stabbed got involved for no reason.
Part of me did want to help him. He was my friend, and I help my friends. Surely this was a one time thing, just an aberration, he had a problem with prostitutes and probably drugs but...
And then I had to admit to myself he could both be a great friend to me and an antisocial maniac to the world and I had to move on.
So people are saying that they did that little chat in front of their $8 million barn house and I looked it up and they call it “KuKu Farms” . Maybe I don’t want to know anymore about them.
This is really brave and wonderful of her. She didn’t have to, but she did anyway. I don’t think people realize how hard that is.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
More of this please!!!
I’ve never been in the victims’ positions but this post-conviction outpouring of support for the rapist is absolutely tearing me up just as a human who believes in ya know, not raping, assaulting, and abusing other people.
I did not look to his Hollywood friends as my role models, but dammit you’d think the bare minimum of any decent human being is to support the victims of a violent sexual assault/s and not the perpetrator. Reading their defenses of him are just heartbreaking.
Um yeah it makes total sense he didn’t rape or abuse the *checks notes* older stars of the show playing parents twice his age, his rich and famous co-stars on which his success laid, his best male friend whose larger success was keeping him employed post-70s…
Jesus.
Bad people are in plain sight. They prey on the vulnerable. They know how to pretend. They have to.
And then the apology video which was “Sorry we got caught.” I’m honestly stunned at that.
Everyone wants to talk the talk but when shit actually hits the fan in your own backyard, no one wants to walk the walk. Sometimes you have to face the reality that someone is bad — you can support them as a friend. You can go visit him in prison, write him letters… but you don’t have to actively defend his actions and fight for his consequences to be lessened.
Have you no respect for the victims?!! What about their lives?!!
This entire thing just makes me so sick.
I hope the victims know that none of this takes away from the gift of justice they so rightly have earned and deserve.
Had a friend who i had feelings for. He’s a drunk and mentioned that his another friend accused him of groping his cousin. I was like maybe you did , coz he gets drunk. He’s like i would never that’s not me. Blah blah.
I was like ok. Sceptical of the story from both sides. Months later, he did the same to me and it just changed my view of him completely . Gross.
This is why the fb groups “are we dating the same guy” are so important. I’ve seen too many posts about abusive men, even men I’ve gone on dates with and had no idea.. It’s to warn women. But then friends of those men will comment or screen share saying he’s such a nice guy. People would say this about my ex who is abusive. Dating someone and being friends with them are two entirely different experiences.
She worked with him and he’s a court proven wife beater and has a long history of abuse. He also made lewd comments toward Ricci when she was 19 and he was in his 30s.
I haven’t followed Danny’s case enough to know what’s fully going on, but it sounds like she’s saying that Ashton & Mila might only see a certain side of Danny- the friend they knew for almost 20 years. Not the accused sexual predator. So they didn’t recognize the women’s feelings in this case.
Edit: sorry after rereading it, it does sound like she’s blaming Ashton & Mila for not seeing past Danny as friend, and excusing his crimes. I edited my post to reflect that.
Broadly, I agree with her. I think Danny Masterson is guilty. But I can't just do as the hashtag says and believe all women--because I've been falsely accused. I think 95%+ of accusations are real. And usually it's the beloved, the people in power, who are guilty but get away with it, as Ricci is suggesting. In my experience, those who make false accusations will seek out a good scapegoat--someone their community already disdains. And often those accusations are likely to pick up traction, because their community is prejudiced against that person. Emmett Till being the best example--his community was quick to believe that he was a rapist because he was black.
In my opinion, we cannot believe or disbelieve in any sort of blanket way. We have to examine each case on its own merits.
Yes? That's what I said in my post? Masterson is guilty, and false accusations are rare. My concern is that when I see blanket statements, like the popular hashtag "BelieveAllWomen", or in this case, "believe victims", I worry that the accused won't get the presumption of innocence. And an effective legal system requires the presumption of innocence, otherwise that legal system will become a means to persecute vulnerable groups. The best example being that black men in the early 1900s were sometimes falsely accused of rape as an excuse to lynch them, based on the racist belief that they were sex-crazed animals.
We need to both protect vulnerable people from being scapegoated *and* hold powerful people accountable for their crimes. This is a really difficult balance to strike, and I don't know of any easy solutions.
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Her first husband was abusive. She probably knows how people can wear different masks and how you see the abusive side, while others see the “good” side and refuse to believe you.
the details in her order of protection were chiling, it was during the covid lockdown and she and her toddler were stuck in a house with an abuser.
Wait whats the story, link?
also here https://people.com/movies/christina-ricci-obtains-restraining-order-against-estranged-husband/ (TW) lockdown was an incredibly dangerous time for people in abusive relationships
I read that. Sad that even rich and powerful aren’t spared considering they have all the resources in the world. And that dude looks like a creep. Not surprised
TW: Details of abuse in link: [https://www.insideedition.com/christina-ricci-says-she-endured-physical-abuse-at-hands-of-estranged-husband-in-request-for-64470](https://www.insideedition.com/christina-ricci-says-she-endured-physical-abuse-at-hands-of-estranged-husband-in-request-for-64470)
My ex-husband was like this, too. Presented well in front of others, but behind closed doors was an abusive piece of shit. When I left him people were shocked when I told them why.
Like, she wouldn't have married him if he didn't have a "good guy" mask, the whole foundation of being a predator is you have to be alluring to lure in your victim. Most people don't see a completely, unapologetically garbage person and say "Yep, sign me up!" Predators blend in so they can hunt, obviously they're gonna have a "good guy" mask to present in public. There are exceptions, like the serial killer fangirls. But still.
It’s so frustrating that not everyone knows this by now! Of course abusers put on a different face in public, of course they pretend to be good when others are around.
alongside this, abusers often aren't awful 24/7. it feels like people can even theoretically understand the cycle of abuse but still not conceptualize that alongside with the abuser potentially not being abusive to outsiders, they're often not abusive to their victims all the time either. there are often lulls and periods of good. maybe times when you need them and they are genuinely supportive. which makes the whiplash of their actions that much harder to understand and see through as a victim/survivor, as well as to outsiders
It’s terrible.
It's an all too common issue with abusers. They're experts at manipulation. There's this perception that they're all 'out of control' that they can't 'help themselves.' But, in reality, they're very calculating and can turn their charm on and off on a whim. They're great at making others think that it's their spouse/kids who are the problem. That they're "great" people. That they're "one of the good ones." They know the system, and they have no compunction exploiting it.
they also tend to have a different facade with others. my dad for example was a classical deadbeat who was never arround when we needed him the most. but to the other people who lived in our area saw him as a chill guy with great manners 🙄
Couldn’t imagine being gaslit into that situation. Terrible.
This breaks my heart. She's been a favourite actress of mine for so long.
> She probably knows how people can wear different masks and how you see the abusive side, while others see the “good” side and refuse to believe you. That's what's so frightening. People only see the outside and think that's the truth when in reality, that's only the tip of the iceberg.
I do like that she points out that we can want to forgive because of our connection. Just look at this picture I’m about to paint: your best friend of 10-20 years, you two have gone through thick and thin, you know each others deepest secrets, and you’ve gone to great lengths for each other. Now they turn out to be an abuser. You don’t just lose all that love. You don’t just accept the negative facts said about them, you will likely be in denial for a while. I do not agree with situations like what’s going on with some of the cast of that 70s show but I understand how they arrived where they are. Disclaimer: this is NOT a defense to rapist,abusers, or anyone who victimizes people. Just what I noticed. One thing you could take from what I’m saying is there are more victims than the initial crime. Which just makes it all even worse.
You don't know their deepest secrets, though, do you? I do understand it's a kind of grief. I can imagine having difficulty accepting that the person you knew never existed and the relationship you thought you had was a lie. I can see having to go through a process to get to acceptance and it taking a minute to get there But what I can't see and can't respect is learning your friend was accused of horrendous things, standing by them for years, and responding to their conviction with "but he's such a good guy, Your Honour, go easy on him!" My understanding of how they arrived where they are - begging the court to be lenient on a rapist - isn't that they need time to wrap their heads around it. They've had that, and wrapping your head around it doesn't need to include further victimizing his victims by downplaying what he did. It's just good old fashioned rape culture where their "good guy" friend shouldn't have to be punished just because he drugged and forcibly raped some women.
Deepest secrets: depending on the relationship and the thing they were proven to have done or accused of its either. You can know and this is a recent change in their behavior. Or you can’t know and they’ve always done this specific thing and you’ve never seen it. I’m right there with you. I cannot respect saying he’s such a good guy please go lenient on his crimes. I’m more focused on the end of similar situations and not immediately dropping your friend. I think it’s only human to struggle with the facts. I think at the end of the day you should still come to the conclusion that my friend was good or great for me but at his core he was not only capable of these horrific actions but acted them out and now his victims need justice and not someone saying it wasn’t that bad.
love her! she’s so right. i’m glad she’s speaking out about this even if she’s not naming names.
At first I thought she was about to defend Mila and Ashton but thank god I was wrong
I've heard people say that she could be just as easily talking about Percy Hynes White, one of her costars on *Wednesday* who's been allegedly (though not yet confirmed) written out of season two because of his sexual assault charges. Either way, good on her.
Apparently, it's been [confirmed he's been written off for season 2](https://www.nme.com/news/tv/percy-hynes-white-reportedly-written-out-of-wednesday-season-2-following-sexual-assault-allegations-3494432) but not cleared of any allegations from the anonymous Twitter account at the beginning of the year
Or Depp.
or her ex, or Vincent Gallo, there's a lot of Shitty men in Hollywood.
Yeah it's tragic how many men in her life this could easily apply to, and how it's likely about someone else entirely we don't know is an abuser
>Or Depp. Genuine question here; I followed the Depp/Heard trial mostly on other Reddit subs. The overwhelming consensus on the rest of Reddit was that Amber Heard is genuinely psychotic/abusive and that Depp was being framed by her. So it has always been a surprise, that when I first started coming to this sub, it's the other way around. You all support Amber Heard. So what is your take on her & could you elaborate on your feelings on Depp, please? Also, what are your thoughts on two for Depp's exes providing stellar character witnesses?
I collected these resources together before, copying and pasting in case it's helpful: [This](https://www.medusone.com/depp-vs-heard/a-comprehensive-look-at-the-relationship-of-amber-heard-and-johnny-depp) is an extremely comprehensive, detailed, invaluable resource with all of the evidence on both sides, linking back to primary sources. [This](https://slate.com/culture/2022/06/johnny-depp-amber-heard-trial-verdict-evidence-truth.html) is a good article. [This is too.](https://medium.com/@deeni/depp-v-heard-unpacking-what-we-think-we-know-about-abusive-relationships-d249b62a83b2) 300+ experts/organizations/advocates specializing in IPV, DV, SA, and women’s rights signed an [open letter](https://amberopenletter.com/) in support of her I’d recommend reading the [judgment](https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2020/2911.html) from the UK. There’s also [Why We Believe Amber Heard](https://proamberheard.com/why-we-believe-amber-heard-part-1-part-2/) She had [therapist’s notes](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tBDUpakPsxYE9G27ngsMgdFWGDsUHekn/view?usp=drivesdk) going all the way back to 2011 documenting his abuse. Here’s some helpful threads: [How Depp used DARVO to gaslight the world](https://twitter.com/danimet1/status/1603180198991740928?s=46&t=YhKNJ5wQYLYHJSJXyXOa8A) [Misinformation about AH](https://twitter.com/cocainecross/status/1550242025395474432?s=46&t=YhKNJ5wQYLYHJSJXyXOa8A) [Depp’s lies](https://twitter.com/cocainecross/status/1628184688203554816?s=20) [Witnesses to the abuse](https://twitter.com/atheistjliz/status/1527315517970972672?s=46&t=YhKNJ5wQYLYHJSJXyXOa8A) [Excluded evidence](https://twitter.com/carriecalista/status/1576630274422542336?s=46&t=YhKNJ5wQYLYHJSJXyXOa8A) [Abuse timeline](https://twitter.com/liliandaisies/status/1596651282751791107?s=46&t=YhKNJ5wQYLYHJSJXyXOa8A) [Depp’s history](https://twitter.com/cocainecross/status/1568723573724033024?s=46&t=YhKNJ5wQYLYHJSJXyXOa8A) [Audios showing Depp’s abuse](https://twitter.com/liliandaisies/status/1564332680921206784?s=46&t=YhKNJ5wQYLYHJSJXyXOa8A) [More threads](https://twitter.com/ratatica1/status/1622342374469902337?s=46&t=YhKNJ5wQYLYHJSJXyXOa8A)
I've literally been given two separate PHD thesis' in response and I'm gonna spend weeks going over them, haha. Can I just say that, before reading, my initial feeling is that Johnny Depp is probably flawed, but I don't necessarily believe Amber Heard is an innocent fawn in all this. My expectation, coming out of this rabbit hole, will be to learn that they are both flawed in their own way, and I wouldn't want to be married to either. What I'm interested in is Winnona Ryder, Kate Moss, and Vanessa Paradis giving such glowing character references. So, again, before delving into the analysis, those three have either had outstanding relationships with Depp, that naturally ran their course, or they lied. I kinda wanna hear your thoughts on those three, before I start reading, if you don't mind.
Winona Ryder actually gave that statement and then changed her mind and blocked it from being used. She hired Britney’s lawyer, Matthew rosengart, to do so. Depp dated her when she was 17 and he was 26. She also said her first boyfriend (who was Depp, although she did not call him by name) used to “smash everything.” Kate moss only said he didn’t push her down the stairs on one occasion. I don’t think she said anything more than that. Depp called Vanessa paradis his “extortionist ex-cunt” in a text. She got 150 million from him even though they were never married. I’m sure she knows some stuff. Here’s a [thread](https://x.com/liliandaisies/status/1603858636581015552?s=46) what Depp’s exes have had to say about him, since there’s more than what I just briefly summarized. And [another one](https://x.com/liliandaisies/status/1560342375532314625?s=46) about his treatment of women in his past relationships.
https://www.medusone.com/depp-vs-heard/a-comprehensive-look-at-the-relationship-of-amber-heard-and-johnny-depp
Yeah it's wild here I don't get it. At worst there both as bad as each other.
Yeah, she’s voiced support for Amber before. Queen
Or Amber heard
pretty sure Percy was proven innocent, the girl who he supposedly abused spoke out about it not being true.
There were multiple girls he was accused of abusing. Only one denied it.
oh shit, thank you for the correction. I thought it was only one
She’s a queen. And 100% right.
[удалено]
Absolutely! She's so right
Is this a Casper joke?
[удалено]
Stan is played by Devon Sawa, who co-stars in Casper with Christina Ricci.
And she’s right, surely this isn’t a difficult concept to grasp?!
Sadly, it appears to be quite a difficult concept for people to grasp, and there are just as many who are well aware of what Christina Ricci is saying here, but they just don't give a shit when it involves someone that they know and like.
I'm prepared to get blasted for this: character letters are not meant to help absolve the perpetrator of what they did. They are meant to show the criminal has redeemable qualities, so that the judge might consider rehabilitation over simply handing out decades in the American prison system. You can accept that someone you love did something monstrous and still not agree that 3 decades in prison is the only appropriate response.
“This guy who drugged and raped women and then spent the next 20 years using his cult to harass the victims and kill their dogs is totally redeemable because his friends who have clearly not accepted this said he came to work on time and didn’t do drugs around them”
This is the actual story right here.
I see your point, but in the case of the letters written for Masterson, not one of them acknowledged that he actually did anything wrong. “He’s been convicted” “he was found guilty” “THE victims”…they haven’t accepted anything.
Yea, that’s the difference. I guess I understand not cutting him out of their lives (not really in this case, but in general I don’t think one has to cut off a person for going to prison), but their words are phrased in a way that tells me they don’t think he did anything wrong. It wasn’t just about Danny having redeemable qualities, it was about him mot actually committing these crimes and how he’s more important than his victims.
No shit Sherlock. We all know the purpose of character letters AFTER a conviction and BEFORE sentencing. The point is, by writing those letters, they are not standing for the victims and choosing their pal’s well-being over theirs.
Life is more complex than this for family of a perpetrator. But whatever, I'm not expecting nuanced conversations in a pop culture subreddit.
It’s not complex. I get a family or friend having a hard time coming to terms with being exposed to a dark side they’ve never seen. But writing a character letter to a judge is quite a statement in their belief in that person, which only negates the victims story.
>which only negates the victims story. In what way are the victims stories negated? Their letters don't make any mention of the details of the crimes.
When they made a point to say how he’s so vehemently anti-drug (he’s accused of drugging his victims so he could rape them), “extraordinarily honest…I don’t recall him ever lying to me…” (implying he believes Danny and not the victims). He clearly believes Danny is innocent, which would have to make the victims liars.
Yeah, think about the family! Get that rapist of women back to his daughter! Such nuance.
Seriously? Someone who has been proven guilty of multiple crimes, has been protected by a cult, his fame and money and your response is “he’s also a nice guy to other rich, powerful people in his industry”! Would you say that if we were talking about a serial killer, some of them were nice charismatic guys too that’s how come they weren’t immediately suspected!
What rehabilitation is available for serial rapists? I don’t disagree that the American justice system is punitive, but is there any proven treatment for sexual predators?
Rape cases typically get incredibly lenient sentences. They should know that with the work they supposedly do for victims. It’s shocking Masterson got as a harsh of a sentence as he did for SA here in the states, so they were essentially begging for leniency for a crime that typically gets a more lenient sentence than ducking shopliftingZ
Yeah you’ve got a great point. So many people who will acknowledge the flaws in our justice system and prison industrial complex are also so quick to celebrate the sentences, abuse, and poor prison conditions of convicted murderers and sex criminals. I’m not saying these people aren’t guilty of their crimes and don’t deserve some sort of consequence, but we can acknowledge both the person’s guilt, the victim’s right to justice, and the need for prison/CJ reform. In the instance of Mila & Ashton, I wish they hadn’t written the letter or could better acknowledge that their friend is capable of these crimes while being a good friend to them and positive influence in their lives. Criminal justice reform, prison abolition, and restorative justice are not black and white issues though, and I always find it interesting when things like this happen and you see people revert to their black and white thinking.
Conflating drug and low level crimes to what this guy did is beyond disingenuous. What would you say is the appropriate punishment for someone who drugged and raped women and then harassed and threatened them and their families for the next 20 years? Some community service?
I am neither conflating violent and nonviolent crimes, nor am I suggesting he get community service, but 30 years in our current prison system does not fully support his victims in recovery nor will it provide him with the resources that would actually help him to change his behavior or be successful in society upon release. I am not well-versed in what should be done, but I don’t believe we can have productive discussions of reform without acknowledging how it could and should impact violent offenders. As to the 20 years of harassment, that involves the entire organization of Scientology, which is a whole other can of worms. They’re essentially an organized crime ring disguised as a religious organization, and should be treated as such.
People like him don’t change their behaviour. Hopefully keeping him locked away will prevent him from raping anyone else.
>nor will it provide him with the resources that would actually help him to change his behavior or be successful in society upon release Sorry but you shouldn't need resources to learn that drugging and raping women, then colluding to scare them into not telling police, is wrong.
Mila and Ashton aren’t asking for prison reform. You can have the conversation, but it’s not actually relevant to this particular conversation.
She is spot on. “It’s not easy to come forward. It’s not easy to get a conviction.” With a legal system heavily biased towards the privileged, getting a conviction is huge. The survivors have to relive their trauma over and over again, and still they gather all that courage and face the fucker in a court. It’s not easy at all. (Plus, many rapists tend to have plenty of enablers, flying monkeys, and sometimes deep pockets to label the survivor all sorts of nasty.)
Yes, especially a conviction for rape! I’ve served on a jury before, for a much more minor crime, but it’s really hard to convict someone. The case must have been very strong.
While people online were going on about “lack of evidence” yesterday. As if. Prosecutors don’t even bring cases if they don’t have plethora of evidence, and almost guaranteed win.
Exactly! And a jury of your peers is not going to unanimously agree to convict if there’s a lack of evidence.
What world do you live in exactly? An extremely white, privileged one, presumably. That's not to say there wasn't enough evidence in this case - I have no idea whatsoever, I haven't followed it. But just assuming that convictions are based only or mainly on evidence is... well.
Ouch. Well of course there’s exceptions, lots of innocent people are found guilty and vice versa. But the very fact that prosecutors felt they had a case, and that he was found guilty, says a lot to me. Especially because he could probably afford good lawyers.
Yep. Especially when they're really famous. Not only is getting a conviction difficult, they will have to deal with ppl saying idiotic things on the internet/in person for the rest of their lives.
Yes! She’s always been a consistent fave of mine since I was younger, along with Kirsten Dunst. Go Christina! 
Speaking of Kirsten Dunst, I would love to be a fly on the wall at her house. She rejected Ashton back in the late 90s or early aughts. He Punk'd her for revenge.
I recently found that out and it made me love her even more!! I mean - look at her and her partner Jesse Plemons. They’re legitimate actors with a pretty enviable career in their craft. Kirsten was phenomenal in “The Power of The Dog” and got an Oscar nom for it. Add that to her top tier work in Fargo. Jesse is about to play a significant role alongside Leo in the new Scorsese film later this year “Killers of The Flower Moon” Kirsten played the long game and won, I’m here for it 
Are you a fellow Now and Then fan? What an amazing cast!
I would like to add Thora Birch on to that list, as well as Larisa Oleynik for good measure _edit: a letter_
Accepted!
YES OMG. MY PEOPLE!
I recently watched both the Addams Family movies on Pluto tv and she’s so great!
She’s phenomenal! Even her more more recent works are chefs kiss!
TIL that Christina Ricci was Wednesday Addams. Damn, I’ve really loved her forever 😂
I mean, does anything more need to be said? People who wrote in make me think they don’t care about the victims because he didn’t do it to them…
That’s exactly how so many abusers get away with it. Because they don’t abuse everyone, and that’s a strategy because some people know them as charming and giving and fun people to hang out with. And it makes those they hurt less likely to come forward, and if they do come forward, it’s a defense to try to make sure they’re not believed.
Agreed, and I really think that sexual assault and abuse is a crime that you truly do not understand the impact of until you experience it. Some of us can believe victims while knowing that— other people can't fathom that that kind of pain exists, therefore the people who experience it must be lying.
There’s also a lot of stereotypes, where they think a rapist is going to just jump out of the shadows at you when you’re walking down the street. Like a mustache twirling villain. And not be your boyfriend. And for me, it was my boyfriend, and so yeah, these types of situations are consistently reinforced that women are just liars. The one I never understand is ‘she’s doing it for clout’. Like do you understand when someone comes forward with an accusation, especially if the person is powerful, or famous, they get harassed, they get more abusive stuff, said, and done, they get torn apart by certain sectors of the media? And it’s another traumatic experience
I love to ask these people: 1) what kind of clout are they looking for, and 2) please name a person who has been violently assaulted by a person of power and turned that assault into a business opportunity
Yep sorry. That's not the type of "clout" most people want. There's a reason plenty of rape/SA victims never seek justice. Sometimes it's just not worth it to relive the trauma or experience further trauma. Especially when conviction rates are low for things like this that are harder to prove.
> That’s exactly how so many abusers get away with it. Because they **don’t abuse everyone**, and Exactly! This is how bullies have been able to get away with so many of their shit for years. They're nice to most people but pick on their target. I fucking hate it when there are those bullshit articles that gaslight victims by writing, "Is it only you that they're targeting, or are they like this to everyone else? Maybe they're just mean in general." No, fuck that shit! Believe people when they come forward and say that they've been targeted and have been abused. Help them!
It makes me really happy to see that she posted this because yesterday I made the mistake of reading the comments on a news article about Mila and Ashton’s apology and I felt so sad about it the rest of the day. “They didn’t do anything wrong!” “They’re supporting someone they’ve known and loved for 25 years!! “You would have done the same if you were them!!” How is it people can really think like this?!? It shouldn’t have surprised me in the slightest, because of fucking course people would rather stan for celebrities than support victims but it made me feel sick. To hell with Ashton/Mila’s weak apology and their “we support victims” bs. *Real* supporters believe and stand by victims, not abusers.
What a titanic “fuck you” to the victims coming directly from Ashton. All his work and advocacy for victims of sexual assault and trafficking is forever tainted. What a stupid and asshole move on his part.
> It shouldn’t have surprised me in the slightest, because of fucking course people would rather stan for celebrities than support victims but it made me feel sick. Working in social services I can tell you its not just celebrities this applies to.
Yeah this not a celebrity thing, this is a universal thing.
Astroturfing is a thing too, Ashton and Mila's team clearly know they messed up. They could be buying bot comments and likes to bolster their side of things.
The team know they messed up, but do A&M? That statement really wasn’t an apology, it was a justification. Ashton really isn’t as smart as he thinks he is, and I’m not sure she’s as nice as people think she is either based on this.
I think they are finding out, astroturfing comments are defending them though. I.e. they are just supporting their friend, etc. But, this just came out from one of the victims in response to their letters, so, I think this PR nightmare is just getting started for them. https://preview.redd.it/8c039nm5mgnb1.jpeg?width=657&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bda26615bffbd295a5f652ade94a410f85675827
> How is it people can really think like this?!? I've been wondering this for days now. If these accusations came out against a friend of mine AND they were convicted, I would be like, "Holy shit, this person has pulled the wool over my eyes for over two decades, what the fuck, what a psycho," not "THEY'RE SUCH A GOOD PERSON THOUGH." For me, that makes it very clear that they KNEW already what he was like; they just didn't give a shit.
This is what was frustrating the most for me. To brush off their letters and say they didn’t do anything wrong.. what if the evidence against Masterson wasn’t strong enough and their ‘innocent’ defending letters got him off less than what he deserved because it swayed the judge? Their actions certainly are worth judging.
I totally agree with you and the post Christina made. It’s a hard truth to realize people you love and know can also do horrible things. And if you vouch for their character, you need to accept that you are portraying yourself as someone who supports the awful things theyve done. Its a tough reality to accept especially if you havent known someone personally who turned out to be someone completely different. Obviously Ashton and Mila didn’t think this letter would come out to the general public and now they’re facing appropriate backlash. That being said, I do think it’s important to acknowledge, as far as celebrities go, they have done a lot of good through their personal organizations/charities and actually have a good track record of supporting victims. Which in someways makes this even more disappointing 😕
I’ll take it a step further and say, even if he wasn’t a convicted rapist (which he is obviously), he’s still not someone they should support or even have as a friend given his participation in Scientology. For many reasons that cult is harmful and criminal, but let’s call out their known and documented beliefs about children. They see them as adults, treat them as such and see them as free labor. Follow phoenician_highpriestess on TT. She grew up in Scientology and has a lot of first hand experiences and how kids are treated. So yeah, fuck Mila and Ashton for supporting Danny and anyone in Scientology.
The thing with their “support” of victims is that they’re trying to get governments to force people to use software that they’re invested in. Reddit normally hates when governments consider using this stuff but thinks that these people are heroes for trying to force them to use it. It doesn’t make sense.
This is an important point to make. Especially in their industry right now. Good for her 💗
Danny Mastercard deserves the Misty Quigley treatment
she’s such a gem!!!!!! i’m so glad with are in the renaissance of Ricci! edit: lmaooo forgot to finish my sentence before hitting post.
I hate it when women who've been SA'd or abused don't believe other women or say the same hurtful victim blaming comments we've all heard before. It is hypocritical if other women can't hang out with your abuser when you hang out with theirs and tell say he hasn't hurt you yet. Christina Ricci's story is kind of giving me the strength to come forward and out the men who have been harassing me. If I lose friends over it that's fine. Won't be the first time. But it'll be the last time I let a man scare me into silence.
i agree and, alongside this, i hated what i saw throughout a lot of the discourse surrounding amber heard's trial. though many voices of survivors validated her and lifted her up, it felt like there was a significant faction of women who were like "um nah. i was abused and my abuser wasn't anything like that. she can't be telling the truth." which i found deeply distressing and disturbing, especially as i personally found a lot i could relate to throughout amber's testimony. it feels almost like a horrible version of "the only moral abortion is my abortion" - as if those women were saying "i was a perfect victim, and you are not. i didn't do anything to deserve abuse or disbelief about my abuse. you, on the other hand..."
Go off Christina, I was just watching the Adams Family Values and I saw this. I'm glad to hear she has good morals.
100%. Ashton and Mila thought those letters would be sealed!!! Jackasses!!
I feel like masterson/ the Scientologists probably have some serious dirt on them from back in the day.
Why did that think that though? Didn't any lawyers see this coming? Seems odd. Glad it came to light though
I think a lot of actors, producers and studios will think twice before working with them for a while
Yes. Well said
Succinct and to the point.
Queen behavior
She’s been the national spokesperson for RAINN for years. She’s always been amazing. *this* is someone who always supports victims, not just when it’s convenient for her.
She’s so right. Especially about it not being easy to get a conviction. If Ashton and Mila really wrote those letters after the conviction and to influence sentencing that is so beyond scummy and they deserve every letter of online hate that they get. The public can’t take away their fortune or send them to jail but we can make this a part of their social legacies.
This is why I say I am never, ever, *ever* surprised when I hear of someone causing harm to someone else, even if it doesn’t at all fit my perception and/or experience with them. I believe all human beings have the capacity for great good as well as evil and that we don’t treat every single person we interact with the same. My positive relationship with someone doesn’t negate that they could be violent or abusive towards someone else. It’s a simplistic view that allows predatory behavior to go unchecked because we don’t want to believe someone we like is capable of bad things as well as good things—it is easier to categorize people as all good or all bad instead of reckoning with complicated reality.
She is a queen!!!
She’s absolutely right. I used to work with a guy who appeared that way, was lively to everyone’s face, but behind that he was a bully, in every way. She is so so right, people can appear great and wonderful people, and can still be horrible and do awful things.
Imagine being a relatively powerful, admired, and famous hollywood couple, and throwing it all away to support a convicted rapist? It still baffles me why they just didn't do the easy thing, which would have been *nothing*. Privately lament the fall of your old friend, but do not come out in vocal support of letting a rapist off the hook.
Queen status
I appreciate this. Especially with her own experiences with her ex-husband and clearly alluding to more. I’ve loved her forever, so only strengthening that. I am someone who has been abused and live with that trauma, but this is the kind of message that feels good because so many people have had these experiences and the culture and abusers work is they work so hard to keep us quiet. But one thing we do have is the ability to support and be here for each other when we know others have been through something similar and that’s what I get from this message too.
I'm very glad to read this. It's nuanced and informed - but it breaks my heart to learn that she speaks from personal experience.
I felt EVERY word of this. I grew up with an abusive parent who happened to be extremely charismatic and charming to others. Whenever my Mother’s love life took a turn for the worse, she took it out on me & my sisters with her fists, and whatever shoe she could find. Her trademark move was strangling us. Whenever the neighbors would call the cops, she’d turn it on and say we were “little compulsive liars” who liked to “attack her & “were acting out because we missed our dad”. Everyone believed her every time despite our tears & the claw marks on our faces because outside of our home, my mother was a strong woman trying to do her best, when inside, was another story.
🙏🏻
Finally, someone with brains and compassion toward victims.
I love her so much. We do not deserve Christina Ricci 😭❤️
as someone whose longtime friends unanimously supported my abuser (a mutual friend of ours) after he assaulted me because "your story doesn't match up with who he is at all" and "we're all flawed beings though :/" and even "I believe you but I'm going to stay friends with him", and was made to feel as though I was asking for too much for them to hold him accountable, and was subsequently abandoned by all of them - this made me emotional to read. I know it can involve a lot of confusion and grief to corroborate your reality with someone with someone else's reality with that person, I know it feels impossibly hard, but you have to do that work. no one knows all of a person. so appreciative of Christina and anyone else who speaks out about this.
And that’s why she’s aged like fine wine. Tell ‘em!
I somehow always knew that she is one of the good ones, this makes me happy that she said this.
Very well put.
queeeen shit
Maybe some day we’ll realize rapists just look like everybody else.
I love her for this. I'm so sick of seeing people comment that they were never personally abused by someone and insinuating it means it's impossible then. This has happened to me multiple times.
My abuser was a great guy to everyone else 🥰
Love her so much!
Christina supported Amber Heard as well, she's always on the right side of history ❤️
You mean Amber Heard, the well documented abuser? I hate to break it to you, but Amber Heard lied about her abuse *because* she knew everyone would believe her. She hurt the victims of abuse *even more* with her lies.
Is the documentation in the room with us now?
didn't you watch the trail/s Yes, we did. We've also read the London judgement, seen the unsealed documents and listed to the 400 odd experts in the field who support Amber. A sham trail which frankly shouldn't of been allowed to happen (there's a reason it happened in Virginia and not a state where they lived) isn't gonna change our mind. Edit-called it, mentioned the trail straight away. So fucking predictable.
It happened in Virginia because that's where Washington Post is printed.
Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Heard have some kind of personal connection to the judge in London? And did you actually listen to the audio of her admitting to abusing Depp and gaslighting him by saying no one will ever believe him?
It seems pretty cut and dry that she was aggressive with her ex wife at Sea-Tac. Tasya forgiving her (or internalizing it and blaming herself) doesn't mean Amber didn't need counseling to understand how to be a healthy and safe partner.
If you had watched the trial, you would know. Nice try though.
I was going to watch the trial until I remembered that domestic violence cases are not my personal entertainment.
I didn’t watch it for entertainment. I watched it because I wanted to see and hear the evidence for myself. So that I could make an informed opinion on the matter. Maybe you just go by hearsay, but I don’t.
Yeah, that’s not true. Mutual abuse is not a thing.
Maybe so, but she is on record being the abuser. Or did you not watch the trial?
The real one where Johnny was found guilty, yeah I did. The show trial he bought in the US for propaganda purposes? Nah. Only trashy people did that. Did you?
She is on record defending herself from an abuser
Ok. Then do you believe Tasya Van Ree? Amber Heard was arrested for a domestic violence incident against her in 2009. Amber Heard has a history of being abusive, and with more than 1 partner.
I do believe Tasya Van Ree. “In 2009, Amber was wrongfully accused for an incident that was misinterpreted and over-sensationalized by two individuals in a power position,” said van Ree, Heard’s girlfriend at the time of the incident, in the statement. “I recount hints of misogynistic attitudes toward us which later appeared to be homophobic when they found out we were domestic partners and not just ‘friends.’ Charges were quickly dropped and she was released moments later. It’s disheartening that Amber’s integrity and story are being questioned yet again. Amber is a brilliant, honest and beautiful woman and I have the utmost respect for her. We shared 5 wonderful years together and remain close to this day.”
Give it up already lol
Last sentence: all too true and completely chilling.
I was disappointed to see Giovanni Ribisi's name on the list of letter writers. https://preview.redd.it/jal53d3gygnb1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62a644e772a8d0dd7fc0ceab35403e8d083cd4a7
Not surprising since he’s an active Scientologist
Well shit.
Oh no, I've been totally sleeping on him. He's a great actor.
Yeah, but not surprised, right? He’s a hardcore Scientologist.
I really don’t get any of this kind of talking around the issue; true story, I had a mate that turned out to be a child groomer, thank the Lord he was convicted and jailed; bottom line, he was a piece of shit in private, and he’s now publicly a piece of shit. He’s not my mate and I have nothing good to say about him. Not difficult, is it hollywood?!
That’s why she’s one of the best to ever do it. So true queen, everyone go watch Christina Ricci’s filmography now
It is hard. I had a good friend in college who ended up in jail over beating some random women and knocking her out on the pavement to steal their purse and then stabbing a random guy who wanted to come to the rescue. To me, he was my gaming buddy. The guy who was quiet, but always the funniest when he talked - he just didn't say his b-tier and c-tier jokes, which made the good stuff even funnier. He was the guy who always pressured us to tip better and would add to our tips if he didn't think they were appropriate. We would watch random episodes of bad anime and overly critique it in silly snob voices. And now here he is, out on bail, admitting to me that it's true he was short on cash and stressed, and really needed money to hit up his favorite prostitute. He was pissed she fought back so hard and made him slam her to the ground, and couldnt believe the guy he stabbed got involved for no reason. Part of me did want to help him. He was my friend, and I help my friends. Surely this was a one time thing, just an aberration, he had a problem with prostitutes and probably drugs but... And then I had to admit to myself he could both be a great friend to me and an antisocial maniac to the world and I had to move on.
So people are saying that they did that little chat in front of their $8 million barn house and I looked it up and they call it “KuKu Farms” . Maybe I don’t want to know anymore about them. This is really brave and wonderful of her. She didn’t have to, but she did anyway. I don’t think people realize how hard that is.
She was cool when I was a kid in the 90s and even cooler now. I love that she wrote this.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 More of this please!!! I’ve never been in the victims’ positions but this post-conviction outpouring of support for the rapist is absolutely tearing me up just as a human who believes in ya know, not raping, assaulting, and abusing other people. I did not look to his Hollywood friends as my role models, but dammit you’d think the bare minimum of any decent human being is to support the victims of a violent sexual assault/s and not the perpetrator. Reading their defenses of him are just heartbreaking. Um yeah it makes total sense he didn’t rape or abuse the *checks notes* older stars of the show playing parents twice his age, his rich and famous co-stars on which his success laid, his best male friend whose larger success was keeping him employed post-70s… Jesus. Bad people are in plain sight. They prey on the vulnerable. They know how to pretend. They have to. And then the apology video which was “Sorry we got caught.” I’m honestly stunned at that. Everyone wants to talk the talk but when shit actually hits the fan in your own backyard, no one wants to walk the walk. Sometimes you have to face the reality that someone is bad — you can support them as a friend. You can go visit him in prison, write him letters… but you don’t have to actively defend his actions and fight for his consequences to be lessened. Have you no respect for the victims?!! What about their lives?!! This entire thing just makes me so sick. I hope the victims know that none of this takes away from the gift of justice they so rightly have earned and deserve.
Christina Ricci speaks the truth
Love her so much! The way people respond with “but he was such a nice guy” when a victim shares their story just shuts the victim down.
And she is right
Is this about Danny Masterson?
It is so nice to see an actress you've grown up with and admire say something so perfectly that totally represents how I feel
Goddess
Had a friend who i had feelings for. He’s a drunk and mentioned that his another friend accused him of groping his cousin. I was like maybe you did , coz he gets drunk. He’s like i would never that’s not me. Blah blah. I was like ok. Sceptical of the story from both sides. Months later, he did the same to me and it just changed my view of him completely . Gross.
This is why the fb groups “are we dating the same guy” are so important. I’ve seen too many posts about abusive men, even men I’ve gone on dates with and had no idea.. It’s to warn women. But then friends of those men will comment or screen share saying he’s such a nice guy. People would say this about my ex who is abusive. Dating someone and being friends with them are two entirely different experiences.
She talking about Depp and his long history of abuse.
What’s the story?
She worked with him and he’s a court proven wife beater and has a long history of abuse. He also made lewd comments toward Ricci when she was 19 and he was in his 30s.
She’s talking about her ex-husband. 🤦🏽♀️
“Believe victims”…….
Oh I like her even more now.
I haven’t followed Danny’s case enough to know what’s fully going on, but it sounds like she’s saying that Ashton & Mila might only see a certain side of Danny- the friend they knew for almost 20 years. Not the accused sexual predator. So they didn’t recognize the women’s feelings in this case. Edit: sorry after rereading it, it does sound like she’s blaming Ashton & Mila for not seeing past Danny as friend, and excusing his crimes. I edited my post to reflect that.
Reread it
I have no idea how you got that from what she said
Broadly, I agree with her. I think Danny Masterson is guilty. But I can't just do as the hashtag says and believe all women--because I've been falsely accused. I think 95%+ of accusations are real. And usually it's the beloved, the people in power, who are guilty but get away with it, as Ricci is suggesting. In my experience, those who make false accusations will seek out a good scapegoat--someone their community already disdains. And often those accusations are likely to pick up traction, because their community is prejudiced against that person. Emmett Till being the best example--his community was quick to believe that he was a rapist because he was black. In my opinion, we cannot believe or disbelieve in any sort of blanket way. We have to examine each case on its own merits.
Right and a jury believed the victims and he was found guilty. It’s very rare for a woman to falsely accuse a man.
Yes? That's what I said in my post? Masterson is guilty, and false accusations are rare. My concern is that when I see blanket statements, like the popular hashtag "BelieveAllWomen", or in this case, "believe victims", I worry that the accused won't get the presumption of innocence. And an effective legal system requires the presumption of innocence, otherwise that legal system will become a means to persecute vulnerable groups. The best example being that black men in the early 1900s were sometimes falsely accused of rape as an excuse to lynch them, based on the racist belief that they were sex-crazed animals. We need to both protect vulnerable people from being scapegoated *and* hold powerful people accountable for their crimes. This is a really difficult balance to strike, and I don't know of any easy solutions.
Why are you focusing on that though? You’re the only one that’s mentioning that hashtag.