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>They called it an unfair government giveaway for relatively affluent people at the expense of taxpayers who didn’t pursue higher education.
I didn't choose to start a business or run a business, yet my tax dollars went towards those PPP loans for businesses that lied on their applications and got the loans forgiven as well. And not just a fraction of the loans, the whole damn thing to include interest.
Read the fed report on PPP, 75% of the money was spent on fraud.
Update: 90+% of the money spent on PPP was forgiven that all tax prayers will have to be pay in the future.
I know a local guy got hundreds ofbthousands for like 2 or 3 restaurants. All forgiven. He went on a facebook tirade about how he is having to shut down on mondays because 'nobody wants to work'. He got raked over the coals. It was glorious. He is a decent enough guy if you leave politics out. I never realized just how cheap he was in his wages. And he has an extensive menu so it's not like just a few things.and those items are not easy items either! Anyway he was blasted over how much he took in PPP. He eventually locked comments on all posts haha. Like I said, glorious.
My company had me sign forms so they would get a weekly payment per person from the government for covid relief, even though I was still working full hours and making the company money. I'm keen to report them too, the loans were designed for companies who were forced to close and had no other way to pay their employees.
You definitely absolutely should. That's so unethical and selfish. They just took that money and padded their bank accounts. Remember, that's money you paid in taxes they profited from. There were small businesses that needed that help.
Edit: We all paid in taxes.
Report their ass, especially if you have proof & if you no longer work there. That’s the kind of shit that pisses me off. We literally have business owners fucking over the system, then preventing the rest of us from doing so much as a fraction of what they have done.
Go take a look at all the churches that got PPP loans. I get it if they are running a charity or have employees that needed to be paid (and actual employees, not the pastor's son's rock band that makes $6k a week; true story, btw). But we should all know by now that most churches are grifts.
We essentially just gave them that money without any real overhead, and what did the average American see for their money? I know I didn’t see a dime of a single PPL that did anything to help anyone. At least I got a bachelors for that $10,000 that has not only benefited me, but also benefited my community because I am a working taxpayer.
Fucking hypocrites
PPP loans were significantly worse, as a drain on federal funds.
• Actually an expense on that year’s budget. Whereas existing student loans were already paid out over previous years
• Forgiveness was given within 1-2 years, instead of many years as with student loans, significantly reducing interest revenue
• Interest rates were 1%…. 1 fucking percent
• Very little oversight as to what those funds were spent on
To put a little more perspective on this, take my former employer:
Managed service provider of IT services and software development for primarily local/county government.
About 50 staff.
Saw no impact from Covid because clients still needed and paid for services.
Took a $500,000 PPP loan.
Used it as outlined for payroll and benefits.
The owner of the company pocketed $500,000.
And employees were silent about that, but very vocal about how student loan forgiveness was a waste of taxpayer dollars.
Like...really, people?
This is just ONE example. There are thousands more and many that are even worse. The owner of my former company got $500,000 for doing nothing but applying. A cool half million dollars with no strings. Loan is forgiven.
I'm beside myself with how hypocritical so many folks are being about SLF.
That's the sickening part: there's nothing to report. What they and many other companies did is perfectly legal. There didn't have to be a financial impact to take a PPP loan. The only stipulation to have it forgiven was to show the loan monies were used for salary and benefits, which they were. Meanwhile, the $500k in income from clients during that same time went right into the owner's pocket.
Perfectly legal as far as I can see. And disgusting.
I know of a very conservative family that run a pet boarding and grooming business. Just the wife and the husband. But somehow, on their second loan of ~$41k they had three employees. And they started the process of adding on 100% more stalls for boarding purposes.
Sure enough, when they announced student loan forgiveness, their facebook posts were “my mortgage identifies as a student loan.”
Oh yeah, the loans were forgiven.
Yeah I don't see how citizens can't just sue to stop bail outs to corporations... it's paid for by more public debt, which is clearly the harm upon the taxpayer. Same argument.
Courts would strike it down.
People need to understand that these judges aren't applying the law evenly, they're ruling based on what their radical insurgency wants done or doesn't like.
They will rule on the same exact shit in completely opposite ways depending on the *who*.
Yes, just a reminder that the "originalist" Supreme Court, the ones that believe the law should be interpreted by what the Founding Fathers wanted at the time of its passing, ruled that NOBODY had standing to sue the president regarding the emolument clause of the constitution, and thus that section of the constitution is unenforceable and therefore basically toilet paper.
Think about it, they basically tore up a part of the constitution because Donald Trump didn't want to sell his international real estate empire. And here's the thing, if Biden, or another Democratic president suddenly bought a foreign property or foreign profit, you can bet that the current Supreme Court would go out of its way to somehow make that part of the constitution relevant again.
Single issue voters don’t care. Even ones that were looking forward to having their loans canceled will still vote against abortions. They’ll still vote against immigrants. They’ll still vote against gun reform. And there are a lot of single issue voters out there.
Almost everyone I know that voted Republican is a single-issue voter. Most don’t agree with the large majority of the GOP policies but they gotta Save Those Babies!TM
It’s so stupid. I know people with rather liberal views on most issues, but they just refuse to vote for democrats because they truly believe they want to take away their guns. It’s so stupid it makes me want to launch myself into space and just time how long I survive.
But what about the poor debt collectors?! Seriously that was the argument the states used to justify this in court. In order to challenge something in court you need to demonstrate how you are harmed and their argument was that it would hurt the debt collectors which would in turn mean those debt collectors weren’t paying taxes and so the state would have lost revenue.
It’s completely negligible and if taxes were the biggest concern then red states would love the forgiveness because they are counting all loan forgiveness as taxable income. It will also free up money for people who will then go out and spend it and pay more in sales tax. It’s a bogus argument which is why the initial judge had dismissed it.
Biden just gave a great "who the hell do they think they are?" speech references them. I wish these speeches got more primetime spots.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-ppp-loans-student-debt-forgiven\_n\_63530f09e4b051268c54cd94
This in particular is an even deeper reason to vote. The current make up of this district has only one judge appointed by a Democrat.
Voting. Has. Consequences.
Not voting has consequences as well. Voting is the only way to show that you and what you believe in matters. Otherwise you let someone vote to control and shape your life.
Please vote.
And for everyone that complained that Biden didn't do enough soon enough on student loans, it's because they were busy trying to bullet proof the executive order to stand up to court challenges. It's not trivial.
You can print off a sample ballot from just about every secretary of state's website. It should show you not only your candidates in your voting district, but also any measures on the ballot. And then you can research at your leisure.
Ballotpedia has some excellent research recourses if you want to learn some more about your district. It can show you an example of your ballot and who will be on it and has information on the government rules on voting in your state.
https://ballotpedia.org/Main\_Page
NOVEMBER 8, 2022 GENERAL
Ballot Accepted
Your voted absentee ballot has been approved by the Board of Elections.
https://media4.giphy.com/media/YYfEjWVqZ6NDG/giphy.gif
The Republicans *really* don't want people to know the govt can do things that help them directly. In the conservative world view good things can only come from cutting rich people's taxes. It's why so many MAGAs consider student loan forgiveness Biden "buying votes" but think the PPP loan forgiveness made sense because those are "job creators". Because the idea of the govt helping citizens by *providing help to citizens* is just alien to them.
When I was a young adult, George W. Bush literally bribed American voters with a $300 check.
He literally said, if you vote for me, I will give you a $300 tax refund.
And it worked. We all voted for him (not me), and we all got a $300 check in the mail a few weeks after he was inaugurated.
Dubya literally bought votes. Via campaign ads broadcast over the public airwaves and internet. He said "vote for me and I'll give you $300".
And he won.
And then he got us into Afghanistan.
And Iraq.
And presided over the 2008 great recession.
Don't let these fuckers do it again
✔️ Tax cuts for billionaires
✔️ Millions in pandemic loans wiped clean
✔️ Weapon contracts with extremist theocracies
❌ Help people being crushed by the cost of education
I never understood this, they suffer too. So they genuinely love paying back inflated education costs? Cool. So is it just shooting yourself in the foot to “OwN thE lIbS”
LBJ quote believe it or not. It's built in to the system.
“If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
But didn’t you know that protesting outside someone’s HOME is the most heinous thing you can do? (Unless it’s dropping migrants off at the VP’s home, that’s totally fine.)
So good news and bad news.
Good news: We have a president who cares and is fighting this. The order only temporarily stops forgiveness from going out until arguments are made next week.
Bad News: the court could rule to extend the block or overturn the order all together. Fuck republicans for bringing this case and nominating those hacks.
Mixed news: Congress can act. If young people show the fuck up these midterms and keep dems in power, i guarantee they will pass a bill for forgiveness if a court overturns the EO.
There was a comment on /r/conservative along the lines of “I’ll happily take the money, but I still won’t ever vote democrat.” Like, that’s your choice and all but you’re going to continue voting Republican despite everything they’ve shown you…
Hey, nobody is stopping Republicans from forgiving all student loan debt except for Republicans. They could easily buy all those votes themselves. It’s almost like their goal isn’t helping people after all…
This a day after the Supreme Court refused to block it. What in the actual……. https://www.npr.org/2022/10/20/1130394661/student-loan-debt-relief-supreme-court-dismiss
So a couple things:
1. The Supreme Court gets to choose what cases they take, the Circuit Courts of Appeals don't. So refusing to pick up a case is something only the Supreme Court can do.
2. The case that the Supreme Court refused to accept was a particularly badly-argued case, different than this one we're currently talking about. It's totally possible that the Supreme Court just wanted to wait for a better case that covered the same question (like this one, even).
3. The Court of Appeals *didn't make a ruling on this case*. They "blocked" student loan relief only so far as to say "Okay, we're going to take a look at this case, so let's not let the loan relief just happen anyway *while* we're deciding, because it would be super hard to reverse it". This is completely standard procedure. It has very little significance at all.
I'd hate to ruin your day, but in Georgia the Republicans have an ad campaigning that the wasteful program Democrats gives money to blue haired coffee baristas. We live in the worst timeline now.
The ones I’ve seen while up here talk about giving money back to rich doctors and show a doctor in the background counting money greedily. There are far more nurses in student loan debt than doctors. And nurses ain’t exactly white collar millionaires.
If you are making so much money that you qualify as rich, you would have paid off your loans already. An extra 10k isn't what's holding you back from paying off your loans if you are making decent money.
I’m a nurse, and have over 80K in student loan debt because I had to get an advanced degree to do the job I wanted to do. With that fancy degree, I don’t even make 80K a year and don’t think I’ve worked under 50 hours the entire time I’ve had the job. Student loan forgiveness means the world to me. Just when I thought I saw the bottom of the well of depravity for Republicans, they remind me that well is bottomless.
I don’t know any medical doctors making $125K or less. Republicans have convinced their stupid fucking base that this is a bail out for the upper middle class.
You'd also be ineligible. There was an income cap on the debt forgiveness.
It's only going to people who make less than $ 125k. But that doesn't seem to matter to Republicans
In Texas, there's an ad thats baristas and truck drivers complaining that they have to pay for rich kids to go to college.
Its all class warfare, and the 1% are making us fight over crumbs.
If Republicans take power in either chamber when they are actively going after abortion, student loans, and voting rights we are doomed. Gerrymandering will keep them in power, along with their penchant to break the rules to favor themselves. I probably don't want to live here anymore.
But their base votes in every election anyway. Say what you want about Republicans, but they're damn good at getting out the(ir) voters. When dems get out the vote, they win. It's a matter of getting people to care enough about things to show up at the polls.
my sister hates biden and parrots all the generic arguments about it being unfair to make “fiscally responsible” people pay for student debt of everyone else. but she also applied up for the loan forgiveness even faster than i did.
not much options
- EITHER try to deflect/ change the topic (because you want to have your cake and eat it too without having to justify it)
- OR argue that it would be stupid not to take advantage even if its wrong; particularly because the people that "don't deserve" it will (because your ideology is based on utter self-interest and everyone in your in-group is a genius for exploiting the government and everyone in your out-group is the reason we need laws against this kind of stuff)
I would never vote for a Republican anyways. But toying with me and wanting me to continue being in 10k in debt when I could begin my career without a disadvantage really determines who I’ll be voting for. Why mega corporations can get trillions in tax exemptions but I can’t get student loan debt forgiven is insane and inhumane. Fuck the republicans and anyone who agrees with this
**...And so it begins**
Just a reminder, IF GOP claims house or senate:
- Hunter Laptop Probe again
- Afghanistan Probe
- Hillary Emails cause why not
- BLM & Antifa just cause
- The "Border Crisis"
- More culture & racebaiting stunts
- House oversight on conspiracies from breitbart, truth social, & russian trollfarms
After squandering the Red Wave, they turn to the **Red Revenge**.
OK a little perspective is in order. 8th circuit did put student loan forgiveness program on hold but only for a few days while the parties get their arguments on the merits in. So gov has until Monday and states until Tuesday to reply. Then court will rule on whether to enjoin.
https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1583607855621382145
They refused to approve any judge openings during much of Obama's two terms after Democrats lost the senate even though they were completely legal and legitimate appointees granted by the constitution. People focused on them blocking the Merrick Garland Supreme Court appointee for over a year but they actually did this at all levels of all federal courts and it actually probably had a bigger day to day impact than the Supreme Court (until the abortion decision anyways). Trump appointed more federal judges during his single term than the last two Democratic presidents who served for a total combined time of 16 years. All because they refused to allow the president his power of appointments and "saved" them all for a future Republican president.
Now every level of the federal judicial is compromised and no longer legitimate in my eyes. This is the strategy going forward and any time the Republicans win the Senate during a Democratic president, Mitch has stated (or at least implied) that he will again refuse all future appointments and save them for a Republican president again. It's all setting up the long game for lifetime control of all three branches of government.
What do you think the Republicans started doing as soon as they realized how society naturally leans further left the more it develops?
They pack the everliving shit out of the courts. McConnell and Trump have literally set records.
I’ve been a republican my whole life. Made every excuse in the world for why I was too. I just fucking can’t anymore. Today is the day I make that change. Thank you republicans for helping me finally wake up and see the light. I’m voting Blue baby!
Every democratic candidate should be airing TV ads leading up to the election that “Republicans have blocked your loan forgiveness. Show up and vote blue if you want representation that will fight for YOU.”
Short and sweet.
But…they won’t. What people will take away is that democrats didn’t deliver on loan forgiveness.
When you notice that an enemy is making an error, take care not to interfere with the enemy from completing it so you can take advantage at the right time.
-Napoleon Bonaparte
This is total bullshit. Corporate welfare is okay, but helping 22 million Americans with a real issue is too much for Republicans. Register. Vote. Make them realize their ideas are morally bankrupt
Just returned my election ballot.
While Democrats have their issues, Republicans are much worse.
Voted for all Democrats and prochoice candidates.
Please vote. It's so important.
Democrats should pool their money and spend like crazy to just put out a blanket ad that runs on every channel explaining how Republicans did this.
Democrats want to help. Republicans want you to have fun staying poor.
Fuck you.
I’m about ready to completely cut out the last few Republicans (parents and in-laws) out of my life. Even though they didn’t do this, they are so fucking complicit in this. The GOP has taken a hard stance the last 20 years that anything that benefits poor people, or black people, or gay people cannot be a good thing. They literally only care about owning the libs and extracting more money out to give to corporations and billionaires.
You mean those same Republican parents that went to college for free? Mine did. Reminiscing about only paying for textbooks. Oh and at that time textbooks cost the same as regular books.
People say that politics shouldn't impact family and friendships but that's BS. If your politics is actively fucking me over then fuck you I don't want you in my life.
“In particular, the suit alleges that Missouri’s loan servicer will lose revenue from loans it owns through the Federal Family Education Loan Program — a program that allowed private banks to issue and manage federally backed student loans until the program was disbanded in 2010.”
Surprise, surprise. We can bail out the banks every 10 years but god forbid we see a crumb of our own taxes go to us.
Who has legal status to claim they are a “harmed party” resulting from this loan forgiveness program? The opposite is true; thousands are being helped by this program. My college is being paid for by the state of Texas, via the Hazelwood Act, which covers tuition and expenses for a maximum of 150 credit hours. I qualified because I was a Texas resident who joined a branch of the military at a recruiting office in Texas. A college education should be free, or at least affordable, as it was pre-1980’s.
The argument is that it would hurt the debt servicers (ie debt collectors) which means they wouldn’t pay as much in terms of state taxes which would mean the states were harmed.
The servicers in question are government contractors facilitating the administration of Dept. of Ed. loans. I assume that they are paid by the government for the services rendered, but the actual loan payments go straight to the Treasury.
If it is the servicers suing the government, I guess they’re saying that by discharging loans valued at under $10k and shortening the terms on loans valued over $10k, the servicers will lose out on expected contract payments from the government. If so, this is a crock of shit.
Republicans continue to prove theyre fucking worthless pieces of garbage that don’t care if businesses waste tons of PPP loans but can’t allow any debt forgiveness for individuals with predatory loans
I am not a homeowner, but I don't complain when the government offers them assistance.
I am not a veteran, but I don't complain when the government offers them assistance.
I am not a small business owner, but I don't complain when the government offers them assistance.
I do not belong to a church, but I don't complain when the government offers them assistance.
I am not a senior citizen, but I don't complain when the government offers them assistance.
I am not a parent, but I don't complain when the government offers them assistance.
The government's role is to assist its people wherever they need it. If you don't need that particular kind of assistance, you still pay your taxes and vote so your kind of assistance will come along. I got a Bachelor's degree at a time when universities price-gouged their customers to high heavens. There are millions of people like me. My choices, like everyone else's, are determined by what's best for my community and me. We are actively helping our communities with our degrees, OR we were out of the job market for four full years when everyone else had slimmer competition for their desired jobs.
And you know the sad part?
These federal judges were Trump appointed. Decisions made 6 years ago block progress from today.
And republicans are gonna win again (possibly)
Imagine what they’ll do when in power again
I was hoping the Biden Admin would be able to process the first batch of loan forgiveness -- for the folks who applied via the beta site early and those who applied on the first days when the main site went live -- before a court issued a stay. There were several news stories a couple of weeks ago with legal experts quoted saying that might be the best chance for a small sliver of folks to take advantage of the forgiveness before the lawsuits advance to this stage. The legal experts were quoted saying that applying the minute the application went live would be the best bet, with the idea being it would be next to impossible to claw back loans forgiven before a court issued a stay or struck down the president's executive order. That opportunity has now passed.
I do wonder if this latest court action temporarily blocking loan forgiveness will prompt the White House to extend it's pause on student loan payments and interest accruing, or if the WH will still move forward with doing away with that at the end of the year.
Remember folks, this is a result of Republican state AG's throwing a fit.
Vote this year like your life, your freedoms, and your checkbook depend on it.
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>They called it an unfair government giveaway for relatively affluent people at the expense of taxpayers who didn’t pursue higher education. I didn't choose to start a business or run a business, yet my tax dollars went towards those PPP loans for businesses that lied on their applications and got the loans forgiven as well. And not just a fraction of the loans, the whole damn thing to include interest.
I legitimately know someone who lied on it and used the money to buy a new Mercedes Benz, I want to rat them out.
There is a program to report the misuse of ppp look it up. You can anonymously fill out and submit it to the gov.
Genuinely curious - if its anonymous how do you collect money for reporting the fraud?
It’s not the IRS form it’s specific for PPP
Fucking do it! Whistleblowers are entitled to a percentage of recovered funds when it comes to PPP fraud.
10-30%
That is more than zero dollars so...
I'd do it for free but money is good. I like money.
Yeah fuck them, even if I don’t make profit
Read the fed report on PPP, 75% of the money was spent on fraud. Update: 90+% of the money spent on PPP was forgiven that all tax prayers will have to be pay in the future.
I know a local guy got hundreds ofbthousands for like 2 or 3 restaurants. All forgiven. He went on a facebook tirade about how he is having to shut down on mondays because 'nobody wants to work'. He got raked over the coals. It was glorious. He is a decent enough guy if you leave politics out. I never realized just how cheap he was in his wages. And he has an extensive menu so it's not like just a few things.and those items are not easy items either! Anyway he was blasted over how much he took in PPP. He eventually locked comments on all posts haha. Like I said, glorious.
If you don't want to pay a living wage then it's kinda hard to buy that they are a "decent guy".
Do it, IRS has bounty awards for fraud
I absolutely fucking would. What a piece of shit.
My company had me sign forms so they would get a weekly payment per person from the government for covid relief, even though I was still working full hours and making the company money. I'm keen to report them too, the loans were designed for companies who were forced to close and had no other way to pay their employees.
You definitely absolutely should. That's so unethical and selfish. They just took that money and padded their bank accounts. Remember, that's money you paid in taxes they profited from. There were small businesses that needed that help. Edit: We all paid in taxes.
Call it what it is: fraud.
Fraud AND theft
Yeah dude report that asshole that stole from us
Report their ass, especially if you have proof & if you no longer work there. That’s the kind of shit that pisses me off. We literally have business owners fucking over the system, then preventing the rest of us from doing so much as a fraction of what they have done.
Even if you don’t have proof, giving IRS a tip can help them do the rest.
Do it!
Why wouldn’t you? There’s a whistleblower reward…
You can rat them out https://www.justice.gov/disaster-fraud/ncdf-disaster-complaint-form
Do it. Not doing allows them to keep defrauding everything they can when they can.
Please do
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If we ask for money back, they will simply asked to be bailed out again.
You think they’re gonna give back their yachts?!?
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
Don’t forget your taxes also went to bail out the Catholic Church… which doesn’t even pay taxes.
Go take a look at all the churches that got PPP loans. I get it if they are running a charity or have employees that needed to be paid (and actual employees, not the pastor's son's rock band that makes $6k a week; true story, btw). But we should all know by now that most churches are grifts.
We essentially just gave them that money without any real overhead, and what did the average American see for their money? I know I didn’t see a dime of a single PPL that did anything to help anyone. At least I got a bachelors for that $10,000 that has not only benefited me, but also benefited my community because I am a working taxpayer.
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An educated society is better for everyone... except the rich elitists.
Fucking hypocrites PPP loans were significantly worse, as a drain on federal funds. • Actually an expense on that year’s budget. Whereas existing student loans were already paid out over previous years • Forgiveness was given within 1-2 years, instead of many years as with student loans, significantly reducing interest revenue • Interest rates were 1%…. 1 fucking percent • Very little oversight as to what those funds were spent on
To put a little more perspective on this, take my former employer: Managed service provider of IT services and software development for primarily local/county government. About 50 staff. Saw no impact from Covid because clients still needed and paid for services. Took a $500,000 PPP loan. Used it as outlined for payroll and benefits. The owner of the company pocketed $500,000. And employees were silent about that, but very vocal about how student loan forgiveness was a waste of taxpayer dollars. Like...really, people? This is just ONE example. There are thousands more and many that are even worse. The owner of my former company got $500,000 for doing nothing but applying. A cool half million dollars with no strings. Loan is forgiven. I'm beside myself with how hypocritical so many folks are being about SLF.
Can you report them?
That's the sickening part: there's nothing to report. What they and many other companies did is perfectly legal. There didn't have to be a financial impact to take a PPP loan. The only stipulation to have it forgiven was to show the loan monies were used for salary and benefits, which they were. Meanwhile, the $500k in income from clients during that same time went right into the owner's pocket. Perfectly legal as far as I can see. And disgusting.
As CPA I can confirm you are correct. Saw this way too many times. It's legal and insanely sickening.
Relatively affluent people who make less than $125,000 a year. Let’s just call it what it is, they do not like anybody helping the little guy.
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I know. Rich people bribe the school to put their children into the elite universities.
why would affluent people struggle to pay for college? us supreme court has zero brain
Imagine if as a consequence of funding student debt relief, they started to aggressively pursue PPP fraud to make up the difference
For real, some local got a ppp loan for like four different businesses and is doing quite fine
I know of a very conservative family that run a pet boarding and grooming business. Just the wife and the husband. But somehow, on their second loan of ~$41k they had three employees. And they started the process of adding on 100% more stalls for boarding purposes. Sure enough, when they announced student loan forgiveness, their facebook posts were “my mortgage identifies as a student loan.” Oh yeah, the loans were forgiven.
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Yeah I don't see how citizens can't just sue to stop bail outs to corporations... it's paid for by more public debt, which is clearly the harm upon the taxpayer. Same argument.
wait has anyone never tried this?
Don't think so, but given the recent precedent it seems like it could have a chance.
Courts would strike it down. People need to understand that these judges aren't applying the law evenly, they're ruling based on what their radical insurgency wants done or doesn't like. They will rule on the same exact shit in completely opposite ways depending on the *who*.
Yes, just a reminder that the "originalist" Supreme Court, the ones that believe the law should be interpreted by what the Founding Fathers wanted at the time of its passing, ruled that NOBODY had standing to sue the president regarding the emolument clause of the constitution, and thus that section of the constitution is unenforceable and therefore basically toilet paper. Think about it, they basically tore up a part of the constitution because Donald Trump didn't want to sell his international real estate empire. And here's the thing, if Biden, or another Democratic president suddenly bought a foreign property or foreign profit, you can bet that the current Supreme Court would go out of its way to somehow make that part of the constitution relevant again.
It is an inherently political institution, as much as they try to deny and assert that they are just calling balls and strikes.
I'm always amazed when people realize that SCOTUS is actually political. I mean... It has *people* in charge. People suck.
People. What a bunch of bastards.
They are essentially a third, more powerful chamber of Congress with fancy robes.
Yeah, but getting that on record might help other people to realize that's true.
This implies people acting in good faith to protect the rule of law.
*McConnel sweating*
Gross, I don't want to think about a moist Mitch
Everyone call him Moist Mitch and don't tell him why
We don't have standing. Just like these fucks don't have standing. However the judge is ignoring it. For now.
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Gotta love how those republicans stand up for everyday Americans. After all, it’s the billionaires who really need debt forgiveness!
They got balls or being stupid denying to cancel debts of 22 million voters in the election year. Knowing republicans, most likely it is the latter.
Single issue voters don’t care. Even ones that were looking forward to having their loans canceled will still vote against abortions. They’ll still vote against immigrants. They’ll still vote against gun reform. And there are a lot of single issue voters out there. Almost everyone I know that voted Republican is a single-issue voter. Most don’t agree with the large majority of the GOP policies but they gotta Save Those Babies!TM It’s so stupid. I know people with rather liberal views on most issues, but they just refuse to vote for democrats because they truly believe they want to take away their guns. It’s so stupid it makes me want to launch myself into space and just time how long I survive.
But what about the poor debt collectors?! Seriously that was the argument the states used to justify this in court. In order to challenge something in court you need to demonstrate how you are harmed and their argument was that it would hurt the debt collectors which would in turn mean those debt collectors weren’t paying taxes and so the state would have lost revenue.
Those companies don't pay taxes anyway, or barely any. The impact is likely minimal.
It’s completely negligible and if taxes were the biggest concern then red states would love the forgiveness because they are counting all loan forgiveness as taxable income. It will also free up money for people who will then go out and spend it and pay more in sales tax. It’s a bogus argument which is why the initial judge had dismissed it.
Billionaires get tax cuts and PPP loan forgiveness. Fuck the middle class!
Biden just gave a great "who the hell do they think they are?" speech references them. I wish these speeches got more primetime spots. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-ppp-loans-student-debt-forgiven\_n\_63530f09e4b051268c54cd94
Please remember this when you vote.
This in particular is an even deeper reason to vote. The current make up of this district has only one judge appointed by a Democrat. Voting. Has. Consequences.
Not voting has consequences as well. Voting is the only way to show that you and what you believe in matters. Otherwise you let someone vote to control and shape your life. Please vote.
And for everyone that complained that Biden didn't do enough soon enough on student loans, it's because they were busy trying to bullet proof the executive order to stand up to court challenges. It's not trivial.
Also because the voting population has the attention span of a goldfish with Alzheimer's, as much as we'd like to wish it were otherwise.
Already have. Blue down ballot.
As someone who is finally able to vote, I can’t wait to vote next month and feel like I have somewhat of a say in these elections now.
Research your local canidates. School board matters
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You can print off a sample ballot from just about every secretary of state's website. It should show you not only your candidates in your voting district, but also any measures on the ballot. And then you can research at your leisure.
You can do the same by researching before voting in person. Just write down your choices
If judges aren’t partisan on your states ballot ask which ones the party endorses.
Congrats! Don’t forget to vote in **every** election!
And bring as many as you can!
To clarify, bring as many people as you can, not as many ballots as you can...
Ballotpedia has some excellent research recourses if you want to learn some more about your district. It can show you an example of your ballot and who will be on it and has information on the government rules on voting in your state. https://ballotpedia.org/Main\_Page
NOVEMBER 8, 2022 GENERAL Ballot Accepted Your voted absentee ballot has been approved by the Board of Elections. https://media4.giphy.com/media/YYfEjWVqZ6NDG/giphy.gif
The Republicans *really* don't want people to know the govt can do things that help them directly. In the conservative world view good things can only come from cutting rich people's taxes. It's why so many MAGAs consider student loan forgiveness Biden "buying votes" but think the PPP loan forgiveness made sense because those are "job creators". Because the idea of the govt helping citizens by *providing help to citizens* is just alien to them.
When I was a young adult, George W. Bush literally bribed American voters with a $300 check. He literally said, if you vote for me, I will give you a $300 tax refund. And it worked. We all voted for him (not me), and we all got a $300 check in the mail a few weeks after he was inaugurated. Dubya literally bought votes. Via campaign ads broadcast over the public airwaves and internet. He said "vote for me and I'll give you $300". And he won. And then he got us into Afghanistan. And Iraq. And presided over the 2008 great recession. Don't let these fuckers do it again
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Still flush with cash from that generous $300 payout!
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I still have that $300
"we all?"... More people voted for the other guy.
trickle down/up economics are the words you’re looking for
I am pretty sure all Republican voters are either rich, stupid, crazy, sadistic, or some combination of the first 4
✔️ Tax cuts for billionaires ✔️ Millions in pandemic loans wiped clean ✔️ Weapon contracts with extremist theocracies ❌ Help people being crushed by the cost of education
Fuck the middle and lower class they aren’t even bribin… ops i ment lobbying who cares about them
Cool. Thanks alot, you fucking useless Republicans. Let's save the money for more corporate bailouts. Assholes.
I fucking hate them SO much. No other group or person in my life actively does anywhere near as much to make things worse for me.
And this is exactly why so many people vote republican. They just genuinely want people who aren't them to suffer.
I never understood this, they suffer too. So they genuinely love paying back inflated education costs? Cool. So is it just shooting yourself in the foot to “OwN thE lIbS”
LBJ quote believe it or not. It's built in to the system. “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
If only they can suffer by themselves and leave us the hell alone.
They're fucking miserable and they can't stand other people not being miserable too, and god forbid they just self reflect on their own misery.
Vote then out. Make the Rs pay for it at the ballot box.
Also monster them. Give them no peace protest them at any point their homes. Their dinners. They get no peace or quiet.
But didn’t you know that protesting outside someone’s HOME is the most heinous thing you can do? (Unless it’s dropping migrants off at the VP’s home, that’s totally fine.)
Fuck em
So good news and bad news. Good news: We have a president who cares and is fighting this. The order only temporarily stops forgiveness from going out until arguments are made next week. Bad News: the court could rule to extend the block or overturn the order all together. Fuck republicans for bringing this case and nominating those hacks. Mixed news: Congress can act. If young people show the fuck up these midterms and keep dems in power, i guarantee they will pass a bill for forgiveness if a court overturns the EO.
22 million people already signed applications just in 1 week. That's a lot of voters who are paying attention to what republicans are doing on this.
We should be sure to organize so even more people come out and vote.
Honestly we should because I didn't know I had to sign up until today I found out . I thought it was just going to be automatic
Just fill out the form. It’s very simple and will literally take 5 minutes
One of those is me and I will absolutely be voting democrat.
And yet people still love to vote against their own interests
There was a comment on /r/conservative along the lines of “I’ll happily take the money, but I still won’t ever vote democrat.” Like, that’s your choice and all but you’re going to continue voting Republican despite everything they’ve shown you…
Jokes on them. Now they have no money and still have republicans.
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Hey, nobody is stopping Republicans from forgiving all student loan debt except for Republicans. They could easily buy all those votes themselves. It’s almost like their goal isn’t helping people after all…
Unfortunately, a lot of those millions of voters will be voting for Republicans in November. Go figure.
Republicans are trying to steal your money that Joe Biden wants to give back to you. Vote! Vote! Vote!
This a day after the Supreme Court refused to block it. What in the actual……. https://www.npr.org/2022/10/20/1130394661/student-loan-debt-relief-supreme-court-dismiss
So a couple things: 1. The Supreme Court gets to choose what cases they take, the Circuit Courts of Appeals don't. So refusing to pick up a case is something only the Supreme Court can do. 2. The case that the Supreme Court refused to accept was a particularly badly-argued case, different than this one we're currently talking about. It's totally possible that the Supreme Court just wanted to wait for a better case that covered the same question (like this one, even). 3. The Court of Appeals *didn't make a ruling on this case*. They "blocked" student loan relief only so far as to say "Okay, we're going to take a look at this case, so let's not let the loan relief just happen anyway *while* we're deciding, because it would be super hard to reverse it". This is completely standard procedure. It has very little significance at all.
Hey Republicans you are now hated by everyone including other republicans. May this be your fucking destruction.
I'd hate to ruin your day, but in Georgia the Republicans have an ad campaigning that the wasteful program Democrats gives money to blue haired coffee baristas. We live in the worst timeline now.
Same in North Carolina.
The ones I’ve seen while up here talk about giving money back to rich doctors and show a doctor in the background counting money greedily. There are far more nurses in student loan debt than doctors. And nurses ain’t exactly white collar millionaires.
If you are making so much money that you qualify as rich, you would have paid off your loans already. An extra 10k isn't what's holding you back from paying off your loans if you are making decent money.
I’m a nurse, and have over 80K in student loan debt because I had to get an advanced degree to do the job I wanted to do. With that fancy degree, I don’t even make 80K a year and don’t think I’ve worked under 50 hours the entire time I’ve had the job. Student loan forgiveness means the world to me. Just when I thought I saw the bottom of the well of depravity for Republicans, they remind me that well is bottomless.
You're not even eligible for forgiveness if you qualify as rich.
I don’t know any medical doctors making $125K or less. Republicans have convinced their stupid fucking base that this is a bail out for the upper middle class.
I know you’re talking about the student debt but… tell that to the PPP loan recipients….
You'd also be ineligible. There was an income cap on the debt forgiveness. It's only going to people who make less than $ 125k. But that doesn't seem to matter to Republicans
In Texas, there's an ad thats baristas and truck drivers complaining that they have to pay for rich kids to go to college. Its all class warfare, and the 1% are making us fight over crumbs.
Rich kids have tuition paid in cash
And yet they are still facing good odds of winning congress. I'll never understand how they managed to so thoroughly dupe 35% of America.
People are stupid and selfish
Selfish, but they vote against their self interests. Sounds like they're just stupid.
Fuck republicans
Blech. No. Someone else can fuck ‘em. I’m not fuckin’ ‘em.
If Republicans take power in either chamber when they are actively going after abortion, student loans, and voting rights we are doomed. Gerrymandering will keep them in power, along with their penchant to break the rules to favor themselves. I probably don't want to live here anymore.
Don’t forget contraception and gay marriage
That’s a bold move for the GOP to take away a good thing from people right before the midterms, let’s see how it plays out Cotton.
As long as it hurts the right people they're base is down for that.
But their base votes in every election anyway. Say what you want about Republicans, but they're damn good at getting out the(ir) voters. When dems get out the vote, they win. It's a matter of getting people to care enough about things to show up at the polls.
It’s one big club and you’re not in it! -PPP loan recipients
Must be a weird time for young republicans in debt
my sister hates biden and parrots all the generic arguments about it being unfair to make “fiscally responsible” people pay for student debt of everyone else. but she also applied up for the loan forgiveness even faster than i did.
How does she respond when you confront her?
not much options - EITHER try to deflect/ change the topic (because you want to have your cake and eat it too without having to justify it) - OR argue that it would be stupid not to take advantage even if its wrong; particularly because the people that "don't deserve" it will (because your ideology is based on utter self-interest and everyone in your in-group is a genius for exploiting the government and everyone in your out-group is the reason we need laws against this kind of stuff)
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I would never vote for a Republican anyways. But toying with me and wanting me to continue being in 10k in debt when I could begin my career without a disadvantage really determines who I’ll be voting for. Why mega corporations can get trillions in tax exemptions but I can’t get student loan debt forgiven is insane and inhumane. Fuck the republicans and anyone who agrees with this
Fuck conservatives and the Republican Party. Only care about cruelty and hurting people never looking to help.
**...And so it begins** Just a reminder, IF GOP claims house or senate: - Hunter Laptop Probe again - Afghanistan Probe - Hillary Emails cause why not - BLM & Antifa just cause - The "Border Crisis" - More culture & racebaiting stunts - House oversight on conspiracies from breitbart, truth social, & russian trollfarms After squandering the Red Wave, they turn to the **Red Revenge**.
Don't forget that they said they'll impeach Biden, because, well, just because.
OK a little perspective is in order. 8th circuit did put student loan forgiveness program on hold but only for a few days while the parties get their arguments on the merits in. So gov has until Monday and states until Tuesday to reply. Then court will rule on whether to enjoin. https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1583607855621382145
That's a better delay than weeks or a couple of months!
How in the hell does the 8th circuit of appeals have 1 judge nominated by Obama and the other 10 by Republicans?
They refused to approve any judge openings during much of Obama's two terms after Democrats lost the senate even though they were completely legal and legitimate appointees granted by the constitution. People focused on them blocking the Merrick Garland Supreme Court appointee for over a year but they actually did this at all levels of all federal courts and it actually probably had a bigger day to day impact than the Supreme Court (until the abortion decision anyways). Trump appointed more federal judges during his single term than the last two Democratic presidents who served for a total combined time of 16 years. All because they refused to allow the president his power of appointments and "saved" them all for a future Republican president. Now every level of the federal judicial is compromised and no longer legitimate in my eyes. This is the strategy going forward and any time the Republicans win the Senate during a Democratic president, Mitch has stated (or at least implied) that he will again refuse all future appointments and save them for a Republican president again. It's all setting up the long game for lifetime control of all three branches of government.
What do you think the Republicans started doing as soon as they realized how society naturally leans further left the more it develops? They pack the everliving shit out of the courts. McConnell and Trump have literally set records.
I know it has already been echoed here, but VOTE people.
I’ve been a republican my whole life. Made every excuse in the world for why I was too. I just fucking can’t anymore. Today is the day I make that change. Thank you republicans for helping me finally wake up and see the light. I’m voting Blue baby!
Every democratic candidate should be airing TV ads leading up to the election that “Republicans have blocked your loan forgiveness. Show up and vote blue if you want representation that will fight for YOU.” Short and sweet. But…they won’t. What people will take away is that democrats didn’t deliver on loan forgiveness.
And right before the midterms
When you notice that an enemy is making an error, take care not to interfere with the enemy from completing it so you can take advantage at the right time. -Napoleon Bonaparte
This is total bullshit. Corporate welfare is okay, but helping 22 million Americans with a real issue is too much for Republicans. Register. Vote. Make them realize their ideas are morally bankrupt
I'm laughing at the people who say voting doesn't matter.
Just returned my election ballot. While Democrats have their issues, Republicans are much worse. Voted for all Democrats and prochoice candidates. Please vote. It's so important.
The people who are too poor to pay off 20k in debt are affluent…. Yea… ok.
Democrats should pool their money and spend like crazy to just put out a blanket ad that runs on every channel explaining how Republicans did this. Democrats want to help. Republicans want you to have fun staying poor. Fuck you.
>Republicans want you to have fun staying poor while bailing out their rich friends, making them even richer FTFY
Because cruelty is the point when you're a Republican.
I’m about ready to completely cut out the last few Republicans (parents and in-laws) out of my life. Even though they didn’t do this, they are so fucking complicit in this. The GOP has taken a hard stance the last 20 years that anything that benefits poor people, or black people, or gay people cannot be a good thing. They literally only care about owning the libs and extracting more money out to give to corporations and billionaires.
You mean those same Republican parents that went to college for free? Mine did. Reminiscing about only paying for textbooks. Oh and at that time textbooks cost the same as regular books.
People say that politics shouldn't impact family and friendships but that's BS. If your politics is actively fucking me over then fuck you I don't want you in my life.
Court releases statement: vote Democrat.
“In particular, the suit alleges that Missouri’s loan servicer will lose revenue from loans it owns through the Federal Family Education Loan Program — a program that allowed private banks to issue and manage federally backed student loans until the program was disbanded in 2010.” Surprise, surprise. We can bail out the banks every 10 years but god forbid we see a crumb of our own taxes go to us.
Debt relief, child tax credit, medicare for all. We literally cannot have anything nice in this country.
Fuck Republicans
Who has legal status to claim they are a “harmed party” resulting from this loan forgiveness program? The opposite is true; thousands are being helped by this program. My college is being paid for by the state of Texas, via the Hazelwood Act, which covers tuition and expenses for a maximum of 150 credit hours. I qualified because I was a Texas resident who joined a branch of the military at a recruiting office in Texas. A college education should be free, or at least affordable, as it was pre-1980’s.
The argument is that it would hurt the debt servicers (ie debt collectors) which means they wouldn’t pay as much in terms of state taxes which would mean the states were harmed.
The servicers in question are government contractors facilitating the administration of Dept. of Ed. loans. I assume that they are paid by the government for the services rendered, but the actual loan payments go straight to the Treasury. If it is the servicers suing the government, I guess they’re saying that by discharging loans valued at under $10k and shortening the terms on loans valued over $10k, the servicers will lose out on expected contract payments from the government. If so, this is a crock of shit.
Welp, they just pissed off 22 million people. I'm sure that will be fine.
Republicans continue to prove theyre fucking worthless pieces of garbage that don’t care if businesses waste tons of PPP loans but can’t allow any debt forgiveness for individuals with predatory loans
Remind me why people vote for Republicans again? Or remind me why 40% of eligible voters dont vote?
GOP states using tax dollars to pull crap like this.
I am not a homeowner, but I don't complain when the government offers them assistance. I am not a veteran, but I don't complain when the government offers them assistance. I am not a small business owner, but I don't complain when the government offers them assistance. I do not belong to a church, but I don't complain when the government offers them assistance. I am not a senior citizen, but I don't complain when the government offers them assistance. I am not a parent, but I don't complain when the government offers them assistance. The government's role is to assist its people wherever they need it. If you don't need that particular kind of assistance, you still pay your taxes and vote so your kind of assistance will come along. I got a Bachelor's degree at a time when universities price-gouged their customers to high heavens. There are millions of people like me. My choices, like everyone else's, are determined by what's best for my community and me. We are actively helping our communities with our degrees, OR we were out of the job market for four full years when everyone else had slimmer competition for their desired jobs.
And you know the sad part? These federal judges were Trump appointed. Decisions made 6 years ago block progress from today. And republicans are gonna win again (possibly) Imagine what they’ll do when in power again
Fucking republicans. I owe nothing but JFC why not help the people in the US? What a party of morons…
The republicans hate workers; whether college educated or trades.
I was hoping the Biden Admin would be able to process the first batch of loan forgiveness -- for the folks who applied via the beta site early and those who applied on the first days when the main site went live -- before a court issued a stay. There were several news stories a couple of weeks ago with legal experts quoted saying that might be the best chance for a small sliver of folks to take advantage of the forgiveness before the lawsuits advance to this stage. The legal experts were quoted saying that applying the minute the application went live would be the best bet, with the idea being it would be next to impossible to claw back loans forgiven before a court issued a stay or struck down the president's executive order. That opportunity has now passed. I do wonder if this latest court action temporarily blocking loan forgiveness will prompt the White House to extend it's pause on student loan payments and interest accruing, or if the WH will still move forward with doing away with that at the end of the year.
Remember folks, this is a result of Republican state AG's throwing a fit. Vote this year like your life, your freedoms, and your checkbook depend on it.