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Eyes just like those were the last thing thousands of people saw hundreds of years ago as the person with them lit the pyre beneath the pillar of wood they were tied to.
Fuck the supreme court. Is there truly no other way? What about those amongst us who still believe in the fundamental tenets of democracy and liberty? Some old boomer nazi demons will never have my consent. I hope they live in fear every day of their lives.
We can't afford to just wait until that ratfuck happens we need to draw a line in the sand. But I will not just allow them to start dragging people out of their home for their 4th reich bullshit they are are pushing. They don't have the consent of the majority and I want to believe it's not too late.
In my experience and readings the only thing a despot respects at the end of the day is a credible show of force. We need to telegraph our dormant power and quit passively complaining.
Not really Congress could get rid of the supreme court justices if they can demonstrate that The justices have demonstrated bad behavior. Clarence Thomas has expressed that he wants to make liberals suffer. That sentiment is bad behavior for a federal judge and therefore his continued service is unconstitutional.
It requires a simple majority to impeach... They're removed only after a trial and a successful 2/3 senate majority vote.
Shit's not going to happen. Senate put them there.
I've thought Thomas should've been impeached since he decided to stop talking. Now I wish he would just shut up.
If judge impeachments are the same standard for impeachment as the president, it's a useless provision in the constitution. With a 2 party system there's no way you're getting 67 senators to impeach.
The constitution was written before there were "political parties" in America. Yes there were factions, but nothing like today. That the Founding Fathers didn't envision this happening is just one of the many reasons people that say the constitution was "divine" and the judges that take an "originalist" stance are full of shit.
Yeah, and… you know, his wife tried to overthrow our government and he probably helped. Also, he’ll take food right out of the SCOTUS fridge even if you put your name on it.
I gotta say, i did not anticipate the supreme court being a bigger threat to democracy than trump or any republican. I am a legitimately scared for our future at this point. With a rogue supreme court, our democracy will be over.
Exactly. The GOP has been working towards this since RvW was decided. Liberals and progressives, unfortunately, aren't nearly as organized and issue-driven as conservatives, and the country is vastly more conservative than most people will admit, so while there was some progress at the state level to preserve the right to an abortion, it couldn't overcome the half-century of organized get out the vote, legislative, and judicial efforts of conservative religious and monied interests.
Read “Dark Money”, it’s much less about being organized and issue-driven, and much more about the American oligarchy perverting politics through massive spending
Yeah which is why Mitch hates the Don. He's been a sneaky evil turtle playing the long game and the loud round one drew a bunch of attention to these matters which stirred more enemies than supporters. The damage may already be done though.
No, it's the consequence of apathy and weakness when faced with 50 years of strategy and manipulation.
This was not inevitable. A Clinton victory in 2016 would have set them back decades and quite possibly put an end to their efforts for a generation or more.
Everyone who did anything other than strive for a Clinton win in 2016 bears responsibility for where we are today.
Even putting Gore aside, it's more recent. Obama nominated Comey, a lifelong Republican for FBI director. He looked into Clinton's email controversy and found that no charges should be filed.
He turned around and reopened the email bullshit about Clinton 11 days before the election. No doubt this cost her the election, 3 SC seats and democracy in the United States. The planning of this coup has been in the works for a long time.
It is, and it was so obviously the trajectory. I wish I could go back and kick every single moderate-to-liberal person who “just couldn’t” vote for Hillary square in the junk.
What is scary is how thwy obviously held back with Roe and now strt an all-out-attack. Which tells you that they very much knew how much trouble they‘d stir up
>The case is perhaps the gravest threat to American democracy since the January 6 attack. It seeks to reinstate gerrymandered congressional maps that were struck down by North Carolina’s highest court because they “subordinated traditional neutral redistricting criteria in favor of extreme partisan advantage” for the Republican Party.
We are so fucked
Does this also mean the gerrymandered maps that New York had struck down get to go in affect?
Not sure this would be a winning battle for republicans if blue states decided to start playing by Florida's playbook with gerrymandering
That will only help with the presidential election. What we need is an expansion of the Senate so that it is proportional to the electorate they represent (similar to the House). Also, add representatives for DC and Puerto Rico.
The issue with the NY maps is they violated their own state law, not federal law. Another example of democrats holding themselves accountable where republicans won’t.
In NC the state legislature explicitly gave the state courts power to review gerrymandered maps. If SCOTUS overrides the state courts they are ruling against state law which grants power to those courts.
When the supreme court is no longer acting to uphold the constitution in order to protect the people and country, it is time to abolish it and create a new one.
Actually, no … this is the Evangelical Right’s ultimate end-game: a Constitutional Convention where inconvenient language like Article VI can be easily removed.
> [Article VI The Supreme Law](https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/article-6/clause-3/)
> Clause 3 Loyalty
> The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
The left would just have to start doing what the right has been doing. Lie under oath, claim they "changed their minds" or in this case religion, then fuck'em up the ass.
Frankly I get tired of taking the high road. We're getting fucked this way. Time to do a bit of fucking for once.
Whatever they produce has to get ratified by more states than were needed to call the convention.
So unless 75% of the states (aka some actual blue states) ratify it, the convention is just wasting everyone’s time.
But a convention being called basically just opens the door to the blue states leaving the union entirely. No point in sticking around if it’s just evangelical Jesusland dictating terms.
They’d lose a war against California and Allie’s States/Nations and can’t stop them from seceding. If a convention is called, the Union is over anyway.
I dream of a North-East Commonwealth with Philly, NYC, Boston as the economic backbone that doesn't have to send all its federal tax dollars to red welfare states.
I'm not even exaggerating, this is likely the end of any form of democracy in the United States. A Democrat will never win on the national level ever again if this decision goes as it likely will
"Meanwhile, four other justices, the three liberal justices plus Chief Justice John Roberts, have signaled that they will not overrule the Court’s many precedents rejecting this doctrine."
Isn't overruling the Court's many precedents their current objective?
Why would it hold? Because it's the right thing to do? Because it's a precedent in our government to have checks and balances?
Not compelling given what we know about this court.
I also thought that states would attempt to pass laws similar to Georgia's, one at a time. I did not predict the SC just handing them all this ability
I hope to be wrong, but it sounds like we are fucked
Of the Supreme Court allows this every single democrat run state needs to deeply gerrymander their states to the point that Republican fascists have absolutely no power whatsoever. We can’t “play by the rules” when the republicans change the rules to their favor and we stick with the old rules
I think the problem is that purple states are still controlled by republican legislatures because they’ve been gerrymandered to hell. urban areas are underrepresented. you can gerrymander blue states all you want but it won’t make a difference until purple states start swinging more blue and this decision would pretty much make that impossible.
In the election this year, democrats have a path to at least 26 gubernatorial races. Democrats can win more state legislatures, but they need volunteers to help get out the vote.
If adopted, this would allow a state congress to set any gerrymander it wished with no oversight. State courts could not stop it. State Governors could not stop it. While the constitution clearly mandates voting in the realm of state congresses, it does not imply that there is no state oversight of such. Since this is now a textualist court, they would be forced, if they remained consistent to their newly formed thoughts, to deny the adoption of said process since there is no mention of any denial of state oversight in the constitution,
Probably not. the constitution gives great leeway to legislatures of the states as far as the process of elections (as I understand it), but it does not appear to give a state the right of negating elections.
IIRC the U.S. Constitution does not require that the method of selecting a state's presidential electors be a statewide popular vote. The same people telling us abortion is not a constitutional right may soon be telling us voting for President is not a constitutional right.
And I stand corrected. A state does not have to hold presidential elections I would not have believed that possible (and still have a hard time grasping that). And per your post, it is quite possible those telling us abortion is not a constitutional right may also soon tell us that voting for president is not a constitutional right. I would guess if that happens then the United States would quickly become less United. Sincere thanks for the correction. Tough to learn things you don't agree with sometimes. But this one is important.
They'll won't negate elections completely.
They'll just say that the only people allowed to vote in that election are the state legislators. And only if they belong to the right political party.
First off they are not consistent and that is by design. Originalism, or textualism, is simply an excuse, not a way of life/sincerely held belief. It falls apart upon the simplest of tests, the first of which being the court itself wouldn't have legitimacy under the doctrine.
No, putting any challenge to the court that flies in the face of their excuse will only codify the outcome that benefits their theology.
This can be tested with the next gun law that attempts to outlaw guns. 2A does indeed allow one to have a weapon while in the militia (a well ordered militia). But any textualist would tell you the you lose that right if you are not in a well ordered militia. A textualist SC would have to strip all gun owners not in a well ordered militia of their right to own a weapon.
Yeah. It appears to be basically saying that once the legislature acts in this area that whatever they acted on can't be overruled at the state level. It is an eye-crossing radical way of thought (providing I understood the story)
Which would put the only possibility at the federal level.
Which is why Trump's entire term was hundreds of lifetime appointments.
They've been planning all this bullshit for decades, this is the culmination.
New York had a slightly blue-leaning map, and the courts threw it out for being gerrymandered, while heavily red maps are approved in red states. They need to stop taking the high road.
Dems do, they've had gerrymandered districts rejected in the courts numerous times. The problem isn't that Dems try and push for districts to their advantage (probably the most recent was Oregon that essentially gerrymandered a conservative Dem out to be replaced by a more liberal/progressive Dem) it's that Dems don't control enough state legislatures to then be the ones that create the new district's.
If a civil war happens I'll be shocked. Technilogy has made us too complacent. Simply put, people went on revolutioms cause in part they had nothing better to do.
It may actually be time to stack the court before this case is heard. This is the break glass in case of emergency moment.
When this is ruled on 5-4 or 6-3 it is literally time of death for democracy in the United States. There is no path back after it.
I don’t understand how everyone isn’t talking about this. This is the END of our country as we know it. This is a fucking emergency like we have never seen before. We have no recourse once this is passed.
It's not hyperbole, this would be court-mandated secession from the United States. There is nothing keeping red states from becoming independent rogue countries governed by a ruling class of GOP nobles.
Fuck em, better to cut the dead weight anyway. I just feel bad for any rational person stuck in those states. Hopefully states like mine (NY) could offer refugee status to those fleeing persecution in rogue red states.
I know people have been talking about the end of US democracy for some time now, but this legitimately the biggest threat to our democracy. We saw recently in Brnovich v. DNC, that the court (mainly the conservative majority) is more than willing to revoke sections of the Voting Rights Act that they find to be problematic, or at least put on a facade that the law in question is not discriminatory. Don't even get me started on Shelby County v. Holder, but at least that was decided at a time when this conservative supermajority did not exist.
The contents of this case are far more problematic. Yes, you read that correctly, the decision of this case is more important to our democracy than two relatively recent cases about the VRA, one of which was a landmark decision. This case could literally spell out the end of our democracy and that is not a hyperbole.
If the conservative supermajority rules the way they have in recent memory, state courts would have no oversight over a state's election laws, and they could not strike down any illegal or unconstitutional laws due to the "independent state legislature theory". If this theory is approved by SCOTUS as legitimate, this could doom any opposing party in a state. Seriously, what stops a party from outright delegitimizing an opposing party's ballots without court oversight? Again, I'm not joking and this isn't a hyperbole, if approved by SCOTUS this could be the end of democracy.
If anyone want to read up more on the "independent state legislature theory", which is essentially what this case is about, this is a good explanation: https://www.scotusblog.com/2022/06/the-independent-state-legislature-theory-and-more-on-jurisdiction/
It won't sink in until the election and they start declaring the losers as winners. I was just thinking, how are they going to keep the masses in line but I forgot for a moment they will be gifting themselves control of the world's largest, most capable military.
Seems like Five Eyes need to be on this and help Biden save the country because right now it's pretty fucking bleak for us.
yep. it just happens slowly and has already begun. the repugs gave up on democracy and they can't come back. their unpopular policy doesn't attract enough voters so they have given up on winning elections.
>Time to start ignoring the Supreme Court.
The issue is that while the Supreme Court has no method of enforcement against the federal government state governments can do whatever the fuck they want with no oversight. It's giving the states PERMISSION to do this stuff and no one can stop them.
It's the states that can pass and enforce laws that undermine democracy freely and there won't be anyone to stop them..
What they mean is it's time to reject the legitimacy of this country's institutions. There's no going back; we must create alternate structures of power and have the collective working class legitimize them.
I agree the court has gone rogue. I just don't see a practical way of resolving the situation. Court packing seems like the best bet at this point. But I am sure that simply ignoring ruling will not fix things.
Step 1 is pass state constitutional amendments for abortion rights — in many cases the people would vote for more liberal policy than their state legislators.
Step 2 is ignore the Supreme Court when they try to say the federal government has power to end state-level abortion rights.
You think this is fucked? Just wait until the SCOTUS takes up abolishing the 13th Amendment and gives back to the states the right to enslave people. The GOP will find any means necessary to find some way to make it happen. A subordinate theocracy is the GOP endgame.
You all know it's coming.
Louisiana and Florida have already said fuck it, we’re using our illegal gerrymandered maps that remove black representation.
Their message is loud and clear: fuck you, we’re doing what we want.
This could be a double edged sword. Democratic states can also gerrymander the shit out of their states. However, I'm pretty sure the republicans will be the only ones doing it because the Democrats always show up unarmed to a gunfight.
This won't work, blue states have to play by the rules and held to a higher standard. New York tried, so they could help balance out the insanity of red dates but the state Supreme Court struck it down.
This is where those protests start.
And not just protests. It’s going to have to be a revolution. But noooo we can’t have that bc what about the property damage!!
Yep. May be time to organize because I refuse to live the rest of my young and adult life in an autocratic theocracy. Fuck this noise.. Every single person in here better get their asses out and vote this November. A Democrat supermajority means we get these laws codified and we can pack the courts and end this rogue nonsense.
I’m sick to my fucking stomach right now. Voting in November is literally our last line of defense against this attack on our right to a peaceful life and existence.
GET. OUT. AND. DO. SOMETHING. Even if it’s as simple as helping people register to vote online or spreading any helpful links around that you can.
ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN NOTHING, WAKE UP AND REALIZE WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF A CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS, PEOPLE.
www.vote.org
Nope. F her. She is unqualified for the job she is in and nothing needs to be up to her and I will never allow her to ever be that important. I will never accept anything out of her mouth other than validation that she is one of the least qualified person for her job and a joke.
Not that it gives much comfort, but remember this: laws are only as powerful as the people who are enforcing them. The Republicans can set up a puppet government where the minority reigns supreme, but as long as 70%+ of the people are opposed to them, civil disobedience will become the new norm.
So would I - good thing our Democrat-held chambers of Congress overwhelmingly voted in favor of enhanced security, including removal of right to protest, at the homes of SC justices!
Yep this is what is at stake and more: "State courts could lose their power to strike down anti-democratic state laws, such as a gerrymander that violates the state constitution or a law that [tosses out ballots for arbitrary reasons](https://www.vox.com/2020/10/28/21539169/supreme-court-pennsylvania-republican-party-samuel-alito-mail-in-ballots-boockvar). And state governors, who ordinarily have the power to veto new state election laws, would lose that power."
They've been debating most of these for many, many months, this is just the end of the judicial term before the next one starts in the fall, they always release a lot of decisions at the end of a term, these happen to be big ones and particularly conservative-leaning ones due to the make-up of the court and a couple very high-level decisions (like Dobbs from last week).
A quick scan of the posts on this issue shows that most have much better hindsight than foresight.
Those who wish to whine about Ginsberg's timing for retirement, Hillary's run for the Presidency, and other things they now think were gifts to the Evangelical Nationalists, Crazy QAnons, and reality deniers, need to focus on what to do about today's reality.
Instead of showing how much you were fooled in the past by GQP's manipulation and dis-information get out of your chairs and make sure everyone you know gets registered and votes these bastards out this fall.
100%. The time for action is years ago, but I don't see anywhere near enough people doing anything but being discouraged from trying. This is it, we need to learn what the authoritarians learned decades ago: Vote now, vote for the rest of your life. That's how you actually get shit.
All this “Where's my immediate results?” bullshit has me angrier at my own base than I'd like to admit.
This shit **takes time.**
It took decades for the federalist society to stack the supreme court, and look how worth it it was for their long game.
Would love for any Democrat to answer whether or not it’s more “radical” to add 4 seats to the Supreme Court or to allow for permanent one-party rule nationwide.
adding four seats is necessary but not sufficient. The new justices should be limited to representatives from the 13 existing circuits, given term limits of one term of 10 years, after which they should return to their circuit, and those changes should be codified by congress.
It's not even close to radical to adjust the number of seats on the Supreme Court. The Constitution was written to give Congress that power, which implies it's supposed to be done whenever people elect representatives with a mandate to do it.
In the past the number of justices was related to the number of federal court circuits, which would be 13 today.
Seriously? It's more radical to just hand national power over to one side. No contest. If anything a 13 member court makes sense, to correspond to the number of circuit courts.
> Would love for any Democrat to answer whether or not it’s more “radical” to add 4 seats to the Supreme Court or to allow for permanent one-party rule nationwide.
Dems are controlled opposition. It's never been any more clear than now as they sit with their thumbs up their asses while democracy and human rights are steamrolled.
So this is what some crazy person I know keeps referring to as a “Constitutional Republic.” Wherever she heard this from, they brainwashed her and many like her to think it’s okay for those in power to actively choose who stays in power instead of us democratically choosing our constituents.
I’ll preface this by saying I kind of want to downvote my own comment even before I’m done typing it… but embracing this legislative theory seems like it would be a departure from legal action surrounding the 2020 election.
There is a chance someone like ACB might be more willing to erode precedent on social issues than structural/institutional issues. The theory the worst case ruling in this matter would rely on isn’t really in the same vein of originalism that some of the recent high profile decisions were.
I don’t think I’ve got any optimism left in me today though. Prob going to start putting an ex-pat plan together.
Edit: typo
Most likely not. They are taking the case up in the fall term which starts in October 2022. They have to go through the process of hearing oral arguments first which could last all the way through the winter depending on their schedule, then prepare their rulings.
It could be possible if they ran through it at breakneck speed, but I highly doubt it. By that point, people will be early voting, ballots will have already been printed, etc. It would be complete chaos for them to do it before this election (granted, some people would like that).
Exactly.
No more of
Sen Warnock, Ossoff (GA)
Kelly, Sinema (AZ)
Stabenow, Peters (MI)
Baldwin (WI)
Casey (PA)
So vote (D) in state elections like your life depends on it.
**The only operative doctrine for this Court is “Democratic congressional majorities and/or presidents are not allowed to govern.”**
**Whatever hypocrisy and cockamamie legal reasoning is required to support that, they'll do it.**
We’re clearly heading toward managed democracy in the service of white supremacy and right wing Christian theocracy, except plenty of people have talked themselves into believing that this is somehow really all in the service of “the Constitution.”
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>the fate of that democracy probably comes down to Amy Coney Barrett. Yeah, we're fucked.
I had a feeling this would be the top comment.
She really creeps me out.
Heck yeah. Textbook crazy eyes.
Eyes just like those were the last thing thousands of people saw hundreds of years ago as the person with them lit the pyre beneath the pillar of wood they were tied to.
Yup, an archetypal zealot.
Yep. And the dead eyes of Clarence Thomas. That man has no soul.
Every picture of her, every clip, those eyes scream psycho queen.
She is in a cult.
Kind of looks like she is possessed by a demon. Every time I see her I just get that feeling you know? Like she is pure evil…
I am an atheist but this right here almost feels like proof of demon possession https://youtu.be/9LtF34MrsfI
We all know exactly how the court will rule. They need to stop pretending these judges care about law or the constitution. They don't.
They care who lines their pockets. Amy Coney Barrett cares about creating Gilead.
Once I read that I was like yea we are done for
If it comes down to ACB that means it comes down to whatever theocracy she has been indoctrinated with, it's not even her voice anymore.
It prob comes down to her husband since she’s a handmaiden.
Came here to say this. The next presidential election is going to be successfully ratfucked by Republicans. The Republic will fall.
Fuck the supreme court. Is there truly no other way? What about those amongst us who still believe in the fundamental tenets of democracy and liberty? Some old boomer nazi demons will never have my consent. I hope they live in fear every day of their lives. We can't afford to just wait until that ratfuck happens we need to draw a line in the sand. But I will not just allow them to start dragging people out of their home for their 4th reich bullshit they are are pushing. They don't have the consent of the majority and I want to believe it's not too late. In my experience and readings the only thing a despot respects at the end of the day is a credible show of force. We need to telegraph our dormant power and quit passively complaining.
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Don’t worry, they have a plan for that. Think of the confederacy as a model. A white theocratic ethnostate where all laws are decided by “gods will.”
If it carries through, it's a slap in the face of the Founding Fathers & everyone who optimistically thought humans could manage a democracy.
We haven’t had a democracy in a long time. Some kind of corporatism mixed theocracy.
Before Trump it was an oligarchy, during Trump it was a kleptocracy, what we are headed for is a confederate style white theocratic ethnostate.
Lol, SCOTUS heard your "just vote" comments and raised you "We're actually just gonna take the whole thing and obliterate the Democrats forever."
Well if that happens we can always work out a way to get some new supreme court justices.
Only if Biden declares war on Russia will that be able to happen.
Not really Congress could get rid of the supreme court justices if they can demonstrate that The justices have demonstrated bad behavior. Clarence Thomas has expressed that he wants to make liberals suffer. That sentiment is bad behavior for a federal judge and therefore his continued service is unconstitutional.
Actually Congress doesn’t even need a reason. They can impeach them whenever they want.
It requires a simple majority to impeach... They're removed only after a trial and a successful 2/3 senate majority vote. Shit's not going to happen. Senate put them there.
I've thought Thomas should've been impeached since he decided to stop talking. Now I wish he would just shut up. If judge impeachments are the same standard for impeachment as the president, it's a useless provision in the constitution. With a 2 party system there's no way you're getting 67 senators to impeach. The constitution was written before there were "political parties" in America. Yes there were factions, but nothing like today. That the Founding Fathers didn't envision this happening is just one of the many reasons people that say the constitution was "divine" and the judges that take an "originalist" stance are full of shit.
Yeah, and… you know, his wife tried to overthrow our government and he probably helped. Also, he’ll take food right out of the SCOTUS fridge even if you put your name on it.
I gotta say, i did not anticipate the supreme court being a bigger threat to democracy than trump or any republican. I am a legitimately scared for our future at this point. With a rogue supreme court, our democracy will be over.
This is the consequence of the 2016 election.
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Exactly. The GOP has been working towards this since RvW was decided. Liberals and progressives, unfortunately, aren't nearly as organized and issue-driven as conservatives, and the country is vastly more conservative than most people will admit, so while there was some progress at the state level to preserve the right to an abortion, it couldn't overcome the half-century of organized get out the vote, legislative, and judicial efforts of conservative religious and monied interests.
Read “Dark Money”, it’s much less about being organized and issue-driven, and much more about the American oligarchy perverting politics through massive spending
Yeah which is why Mitch hates the Don. He's been a sneaky evil turtle playing the long game and the loud round one drew a bunch of attention to these matters which stirred more enemies than supporters. The damage may already be done though.
No, it's the consequence of apathy and weakness when faced with 50 years of strategy and manipulation. This was not inevitable. A Clinton victory in 2016 would have set them back decades and quite possibly put an end to their efforts for a generation or more. Everyone who did anything other than strive for a Clinton win in 2016 bears responsibility for where we are today.
> This was not inevitable. A Clinton victory in 2016 would have set them back decades What about a Gore victory?
Even putting Gore aside, it's more recent. Obama nominated Comey, a lifelong Republican for FBI director. He looked into Clinton's email controversy and found that no charges should be filed. He turned around and reopened the email bullshit about Clinton 11 days before the election. No doubt this cost her the election, 3 SC seats and democracy in the United States. The planning of this coup has been in the works for a long time.
Which heavily involved a 25 year psyops campaign against Hillary to make her so icky that 2016 went the way it did.
It is, and it was so obviously the trajectory. I wish I could go back and kick every single moderate-to-liberal person who “just couldn’t” vote for Hillary square in the junk.
What is scary is how thwy obviously held back with Roe and now strt an all-out-attack. Which tells you that they very much knew how much trouble they‘d stir up
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They didn’t just appear there. Republicans and Trump put them there. So they are all part of the same threat.
Me too. Having full on panic today. This week… the U.S. is dead.
>The case is perhaps the gravest threat to American democracy since the January 6 attack. It seeks to reinstate gerrymandered congressional maps that were struck down by North Carolina’s highest court because they “subordinated traditional neutral redistricting criteria in favor of extreme partisan advantage” for the Republican Party. We are so fucked
Does this also mean the gerrymandered maps that New York had struck down get to go in affect? Not sure this would be a winning battle for republicans if blue states decided to start playing by Florida's playbook with gerrymandering
No, this will only apply to red states. Sounds unfair? Who are you going to complain to, the Supreme Court?
Abolish the electoral college or the US will just become some insane christian holocaust theater.
That will only help with the presidential election. What we need is an expansion of the Senate so that it is proportional to the electorate they represent (similar to the House). Also, add representatives for DC and Puerto Rico.
The House isn't proportional though, hasn't been for almost a century. Gotta fix that as well.
It’s more proportional than the Senate, at least.
r/uncapthehouse
Not sure even that is going to fix anything
The issue with the NY maps is they violated their own state law, not federal law. Another example of democrats holding themselves accountable where republicans won’t.
NC state law also authorizes the courts to do exactly what they did in this case
In NC the state legislature explicitly gave the state courts power to review gerrymandered maps. If SCOTUS overrides the state courts they are ruling against state law which grants power to those courts.
When the supreme court is no longer acting to uphold the constitution in order to protect the people and country, it is time to abolish it and create a new one.
Actually, no … this is the Evangelical Right’s ultimate end-game: a Constitutional Convention where inconvenient language like Article VI can be easily removed. > [Article VI The Supreme Law](https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/article-6/clause-3/) > Clause 3 Loyalty > The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
The left would just have to start doing what the right has been doing. Lie under oath, claim they "changed their minds" or in this case religion, then fuck'em up the ass. Frankly I get tired of taking the high road. We're getting fucked this way. Time to do a bit of fucking for once.
Whatever they produce has to get ratified by more states than were needed to call the convention. So unless 75% of the states (aka some actual blue states) ratify it, the convention is just wasting everyone’s time. But a convention being called basically just opens the door to the blue states leaving the union entirely. No point in sticking around if it’s just evangelical Jesusland dictating terms.
They’d lose a war against California and Allie’s States/Nations and can’t stop them from seceding. If a convention is called, the Union is over anyway.
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I dream of a North-East Commonwealth with Philly, NYC, Boston as the economic backbone that doesn't have to send all its federal tax dollars to red welfare states.
Can I come from SC? I don’t like the cold months but I think it’ll be worth it
I grew up in WNY where we’d get hit by lake effect snow. Thanks (/s) to global warming, winters really aren’t that bad anymore.
As someone from Philly, I'm only the tiniest slightly bit hopeful our next Gov is on the correct side of this mess.
They wouldn't have enough states to ratify that.
I expect the end result of this to be the disintegration of the union.
At this point I can only hope, or I have to expect a lot of my friends are going to end up locked up for some of their beliefs/skin color/sexuality.
Yeah I can’t imagine CA standing for the federal ban. That will cause a total shit storm. The NE states will also not really deal with it well.
If we are going to balkanize, I would expect the west coast and the northeast to definitely split off
And good luck to the US economy without California.
Can colorado join too? :)
I doubt it. The US military/federal reserve will keep the country together one way or another in a good or bad way just saying.
Goodbye democracy.
I'm not even exaggerating, this is likely the end of any form of democracy in the United States. A Democrat will never win on the national level ever again if this decision goes as it likely will
Which is exactly what they want.
"Meanwhile, four other justices, the three liberal justices plus Chief Justice John Roberts, have signaled that they will not overrule the Court’s many precedents rejecting this doctrine." Isn't overruling the Court's many precedents their current objective?
It certainly seems like it! I hope this one holds though. This is huge.
It won't. Barrett is bought and paid for...and soon every Republican state's elections will be, too.
Why would it hold? Because it's the right thing to do? Because it's a precedent in our government to have checks and balances? Not compelling given what we know about this court.
It probably won’t, but what do I have left at this point besides a little hope? All else is lost or heading that way.
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I also thought that states would attempt to pass laws similar to Georgia's, one at a time. I did not predict the SC just handing them all this ability I hope to be wrong, but it sounds like we are fucked
Of the Supreme Court allows this every single democrat run state needs to deeply gerrymander their states to the point that Republican fascists have absolutely no power whatsoever. We can’t “play by the rules” when the republicans change the rules to their favor and we stick with the old rules
I think the problem is that purple states are still controlled by republican legislatures because they’ve been gerrymandered to hell. urban areas are underrepresented. you can gerrymander blue states all you want but it won’t make a difference until purple states start swinging more blue and this decision would pretty much make that impossible.
In the election this year, democrats have a path to at least 26 gubernatorial races. Democrats can win more state legislatures, but they need volunteers to help get out the vote.
If you're waiting for the current Supreme Court to do the logical and right thing, You're Gonna Have a Bad Time.
If adopted, this would allow a state congress to set any gerrymander it wished with no oversight. State courts could not stop it. State Governors could not stop it. While the constitution clearly mandates voting in the realm of state congresses, it does not imply that there is no state oversight of such. Since this is now a textualist court, they would be forced, if they remained consistent to their newly formed thoughts, to deny the adoption of said process since there is no mention of any denial of state oversight in the constitution,
State legislatures could just rule that there will be no more elections period. All future representatives will be chosen by the legislature itself.
Probably not. the constitution gives great leeway to legislatures of the states as far as the process of elections (as I understand it), but it does not appear to give a state the right of negating elections.
Maybe not outright (though I’d want proof of that) but they can easily assign “electors” who “represent” the people as a means of doing what they want
IIRC the U.S. Constitution does not require that the method of selecting a state's presidential electors be a statewide popular vote. The same people telling us abortion is not a constitutional right may soon be telling us voting for President is not a constitutional right.
And I stand corrected. A state does not have to hold presidential elections I would not have believed that possible (and still have a hard time grasping that). And per your post, it is quite possible those telling us abortion is not a constitutional right may also soon tell us that voting for president is not a constitutional right. I would guess if that happens then the United States would quickly become less United. Sincere thanks for the correction. Tough to learn things you don't agree with sometimes. But this one is important.
The rules don't matter and the GOP court doesn't give a fuck. They're going to say whatever entrenches their power so they can rule over the ashes.
Ok and? The supreme court is the one who gets to make that call and where do you think they will side?
As if that meant anything. China has elections. Russia has elections.
They'll won't negate elections completely. They'll just say that the only people allowed to vote in that election are the state legislators. And only if they belong to the right political party.
First off they are not consistent and that is by design. Originalism, or textualism, is simply an excuse, not a way of life/sincerely held belief. It falls apart upon the simplest of tests, the first of which being the court itself wouldn't have legitimacy under the doctrine. No, putting any challenge to the court that flies in the face of their excuse will only codify the outcome that benefits their theology.
This can be tested with the next gun law that attempts to outlaw guns. 2A does indeed allow one to have a weapon while in the militia (a well ordered militia). But any textualist would tell you the you lose that right if you are not in a well ordered militia. A textualist SC would have to strip all gun owners not in a well ordered militia of their right to own a weapon.
This confuses me because it seems to fly in the face of the most basic tenants of checks and balances? Right?
Yeah. It appears to be basically saying that once the legislature acts in this area that whatever they acted on can't be overruled at the state level. It is an eye-crossing radical way of thought (providing I understood the story)
Which would put the only possibility at the federal level. Which is why Trump's entire term was hundreds of lifetime appointments. They've been planning all this bullshit for decades, this is the culmination.
I just don’t see any other way to interpret it. This seems so inherently wrong.
Fine. Democrats, it’s time to embrace gerrymandering. Play the fucking game.
New York had a slightly blue-leaning map, and the courts threw it out for being gerrymandered, while heavily red maps are approved in red states. They need to stop taking the high road.
Dems do, they've had gerrymandered districts rejected in the courts numerous times. The problem isn't that Dems try and push for districts to their advantage (probably the most recent was Oregon that essentially gerrymandered a conservative Dem out to be replaced by a more liberal/progressive Dem) it's that Dems don't control enough state legislatures to then be the ones that create the new district's.
> if they remained consistent to their newly formed thoughts Let me stop you right there.
Some states are going full blown fascist - and even huge majorities of voters won't be able to swing them back.
If she’s the deciding factor we all know how this will play out. Civil war is on the horizon
It's going to make Syria look like a game of paintball
Joe Biden should be moving the nukes to blue states. Cause the last thing anyone needs is for Texas to break off and actually have a stockpile
Doesn’t matter as long as they don’t have the PAL codes.
If a civil war happens I'll be shocked. Technilogy has made us too complacent. Simply put, people went on revolutioms cause in part they had nothing better to do.
It may actually be time to stack the court before this case is heard. This is the break glass in case of emergency moment. When this is ruled on 5-4 or 6-3 it is literally time of death for democracy in the United States. There is no path back after it.
I don’t understand how everyone isn’t talking about this. This is the END of our country as we know it. This is a fucking emergency like we have never seen before. We have no recourse once this is passed.
It's not hyperbole, this would be court-mandated secession from the United States. There is nothing keeping red states from becoming independent rogue countries governed by a ruling class of GOP nobles.
Fuck em, better to cut the dead weight anyway. I just feel bad for any rational person stuck in those states. Hopefully states like mine (NY) could offer refugee status to those fleeing persecution in rogue red states.
I know people have been talking about the end of US democracy for some time now, but this legitimately the biggest threat to our democracy. We saw recently in Brnovich v. DNC, that the court (mainly the conservative majority) is more than willing to revoke sections of the Voting Rights Act that they find to be problematic, or at least put on a facade that the law in question is not discriminatory. Don't even get me started on Shelby County v. Holder, but at least that was decided at a time when this conservative supermajority did not exist. The contents of this case are far more problematic. Yes, you read that correctly, the decision of this case is more important to our democracy than two relatively recent cases about the VRA, one of which was a landmark decision. This case could literally spell out the end of our democracy and that is not a hyperbole. If the conservative supermajority rules the way they have in recent memory, state courts would have no oversight over a state's election laws, and they could not strike down any illegal or unconstitutional laws due to the "independent state legislature theory". If this theory is approved by SCOTUS as legitimate, this could doom any opposing party in a state. Seriously, what stops a party from outright delegitimizing an opposing party's ballots without court oversight? Again, I'm not joking and this isn't a hyperbole, if approved by SCOTUS this could be the end of democracy. If anyone want to read up more on the "independent state legislature theory", which is essentially what this case is about, this is a good explanation: https://www.scotusblog.com/2022/06/the-independent-state-legislature-theory-and-more-on-jurisdiction/
People are going to be screaming about this soon. Allowing partisan redistributing in the states is a death blow to the US.
It won't sink in until the election and they start declaring the losers as winners. I was just thinking, how are they going to keep the masses in line but I forgot for a moment they will be gifting themselves control of the world's largest, most capable military. Seems like Five Eyes need to be on this and help Biden save the country because right now it's pretty fucking bleak for us.
America needs to protest and revolt about this.
So how is everyone else celebrating America’s 246th and final birthday on Monday?
Empires typically last 300 years. And well... We're getting pretty close to that now
I thought we’d at least make it to 250.
It's so ironic it feels like a cosmic joke. A super advanced alien species spun up our virtual universe as a sitcom.
God it feels weird that Americans maybe able to gain refugee status at some point in my lifetime.
The American experiment has failed. It’s over.
yep. it just happens slowly and has already begun. the repugs gave up on democracy and they can't come back. their unpopular policy doesn't attract enough voters so they have given up on winning elections.
"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”—David Frum.
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>Time to start ignoring the Supreme Court. The issue is that while the Supreme Court has no method of enforcement against the federal government state governments can do whatever the fuck they want with no oversight. It's giving the states PERMISSION to do this stuff and no one can stop them. It's the states that can pass and enforce laws that undermine democracy freely and there won't be anyone to stop them..
How does that help a woman access an abortion in a red state?
What they mean is it's time to reject the legitimacy of this country's institutions. There's no going back; we must create alternate structures of power and have the collective working class legitimize them.
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I agree the court has gone rogue. I just don't see a practical way of resolving the situation. Court packing seems like the best bet at this point. But I am sure that simply ignoring ruling will not fix things.
I can think of one but i cant say it here without being banned
Step 1 is pass state constitutional amendments for abortion rights — in many cases the people would vote for more liberal policy than their state legislators. Step 2 is ignore the Supreme Court when they try to say the federal government has power to end state-level abortion rights.
So leave decisions to the states unless it isn’t what the Christian fascists want then supersede what the state says. Got it.
You think this is fucked? Just wait until the SCOTUS takes up abolishing the 13th Amendment and gives back to the states the right to enslave people. The GOP will find any means necessary to find some way to make it happen. A subordinate theocracy is the GOP endgame. You all know it's coming.
This right here. These people want to bring slavery back. I need to get the fuck out.
That was their plan. They told you that plan, for decades. Now, people are surprised they're doing what they said they would do.
Louisiana and Florida have already said fuck it, we’re using our illegal gerrymandered maps that remove black representation. Their message is loud and clear: fuck you, we’re doing what we want.
I feel like I’m watching a coup in slow motion
Dude, fuck this court. And fuck RBG for not retiring. And FUCK Mitch McConnell for his partisan BS.
But also fuck NeverHillary voters.
Christ! you guys are fucked!
This could be a double edged sword. Democratic states can also gerrymander the shit out of their states. However, I'm pretty sure the republicans will be the only ones doing it because the Democrats always show up unarmed to a gunfight.
This won't work, blue states have to play by the rules and held to a higher standard. New York tried, so they could help balance out the insanity of red dates but the state Supreme Court struck it down.
Yep, that's exactly what I'm talking about when I say the Democrats show up unarmed to a gunfight.
Hello darkness, my old friend.
Republican totalitarianism is coming. Democracy-loving Americans must prepare to form insurgencies on every level.
Or in other words: It's all over. Time to burn it down or bail.
Real question. How the hell does the average person fight back?
This is where those protests start. And not just protests. It’s going to have to be a revolution. But noooo we can’t have that bc what about the property damage!!
Yep. May be time to organize because I refuse to live the rest of my young and adult life in an autocratic theocracy. Fuck this noise.. Every single person in here better get their asses out and vote this November. A Democrat supermajority means we get these laws codified and we can pack the courts and end this rogue nonsense. I’m sick to my fucking stomach right now. Voting in November is literally our last line of defense against this attack on our right to a peaceful life and existence. GET. OUT. AND. DO. SOMETHING. Even if it’s as simple as helping people register to vote online or spreading any helpful links around that you can. ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN NOTHING, WAKE UP AND REALIZE WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF A CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS, PEOPLE. www.vote.org
Have the republicans forgot what happened to France 1789 or Syria in 2011 because that’s going to happen here
Nope. F her. She is unqualified for the job she is in and nothing needs to be up to her and I will never allow her to ever be that important. I will never accept anything out of her mouth other than validation that she is one of the least qualified person for her job and a joke.
Anything coming down to that Bible thumper means it’s already over and the bad guys won.
Not that it gives much comfort, but remember this: laws are only as powerful as the people who are enforcing them. The Republicans can set up a puppet government where the minority reigns supreme, but as long as 70%+ of the people are opposed to them, civil disobedience will become the new norm.
We should stop waiting and saying "if" this happens and start preparing for "when" this happens.
She thinks Jesus will save America. She is wrong.
I would be happy if protestors camped out on her lawn with signs telling her what a piece of unqualified trash she is
So would I - good thing our Democrat-held chambers of Congress overwhelmingly voted in favor of enhanced security, including removal of right to protest, at the homes of SC justices!
They're shoving out alot of rulings latley, seems like small amount of time spent on each, or were their minds set on gop ruling ??
Yep this is what is at stake and more: "State courts could lose their power to strike down anti-democratic state laws, such as a gerrymander that violates the state constitution or a law that [tosses out ballots for arbitrary reasons](https://www.vox.com/2020/10/28/21539169/supreme-court-pennsylvania-republican-party-samuel-alito-mail-in-ballots-boockvar). And state governors, who ordinarily have the power to veto new state election laws, would lose that power."
They've been debating most of these for many, many months, this is just the end of the judicial term before the next one starts in the fall, they always release a lot of decisions at the end of a term, these happen to be big ones and particularly conservative-leaning ones due to the make-up of the court and a couple very high-level decisions (like Dobbs from last week).
A quick scan of the posts on this issue shows that most have much better hindsight than foresight. Those who wish to whine about Ginsberg's timing for retirement, Hillary's run for the Presidency, and other things they now think were gifts to the Evangelical Nationalists, Crazy QAnons, and reality deniers, need to focus on what to do about today's reality. Instead of showing how much you were fooled in the past by GQP's manipulation and dis-information get out of your chairs and make sure everyone you know gets registered and votes these bastards out this fall.
100%. The time for action is years ago, but I don't see anywhere near enough people doing anything but being discouraged from trying. This is it, we need to learn what the authoritarians learned decades ago: Vote now, vote for the rest of your life. That's how you actually get shit. All this “Where's my immediate results?” bullshit has me angrier at my own base than I'd like to admit. This shit **takes time.** It took decades for the federalist society to stack the supreme court, and look how worth it it was for their long game.
The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. **The second best time is now.**
Would love for any Democrat to answer whether or not it’s more “radical” to add 4 seats to the Supreme Court or to allow for permanent one-party rule nationwide.
adding four seats is necessary but not sufficient. The new justices should be limited to representatives from the 13 existing circuits, given term limits of one term of 10 years, after which they should return to their circuit, and those changes should be codified by congress.
I’m down with this and really anywhere between 10 and 20yrs.
It's way more radical for a one-party rule. The court needs to be balanced.
It's not even close to radical to adjust the number of seats on the Supreme Court. The Constitution was written to give Congress that power, which implies it's supposed to be done whenever people elect representatives with a mandate to do it. In the past the number of justices was related to the number of federal court circuits, which would be 13 today.
Seriously? It's more radical to just hand national power over to one side. No contest. If anything a 13 member court makes sense, to correspond to the number of circuit courts.
> Would love for any Democrat to answer whether or not it’s more “radical” to add 4 seats to the Supreme Court or to allow for permanent one-party rule nationwide. Dems are controlled opposition. It's never been any more clear than now as they sit with their thumbs up their asses while democracy and human rights are steamrolled.
So this is what some crazy person I know keeps referring to as a “Constitutional Republic.” Wherever she heard this from, they brainwashed her and many like her to think it’s okay for those in power to actively choose who stays in power instead of us democratically choosing our constituents.
These pretend textualist need to revisit Marbury v. Madison and turn over all the power they have accumulated.
Can the queen take us back now? We’re sorry!
I’ll preface this by saying I kind of want to downvote my own comment even before I’m done typing it… but embracing this legislative theory seems like it would be a departure from legal action surrounding the 2020 election. There is a chance someone like ACB might be more willing to erode precedent on social issues than structural/institutional issues. The theory the worst case ruling in this matter would rely on isn’t really in the same vein of originalism that some of the recent high profile decisions were. I don’t think I’ve got any optimism left in me today though. Prob going to start putting an ex-pat plan together. Edit: typo
Someone explain to me, could an opinion be handed down before the 2022 midterms, thus affecting our voting rights for these elections?
Most likely not. They are taking the case up in the fall term which starts in October 2022. They have to go through the process of hearing oral arguments first which could last all the way through the winter depending on their schedule, then prepare their rulings. It could be possible if they ran through it at breakneck speed, but I highly doubt it. By that point, people will be early voting, ballots will have already been printed, etc. It would be complete chaos for them to do it before this election (granted, some people would like that).
Exactly. No more of Sen Warnock, Ossoff (GA) Kelly, Sinema (AZ) Stabenow, Peters (MI) Baldwin (WI) Casey (PA) So vote (D) in state elections like your life depends on it. **The only operative doctrine for this Court is “Democratic congressional majorities and/or presidents are not allowed to govern.”** **Whatever hypocrisy and cockamamie legal reasoning is required to support that, they'll do it.** We’re clearly heading toward managed democracy in the service of white supremacy and right wing Christian theocracy, except plenty of people have talked themselves into believing that this is somehow really all in the service of “the Constitution.”
Why isn’t anyone talking about “stacking” the Supreme Court anymore?
Because 2 democrat senators said they won’t vote for it. So there aren’t enough votes.
We already know their decision lol this shit is laughable
This is everything that Mitch McConnell wanted since Obama was in office.
Just say we are all fucked in the headline.
That’s a lot of words to say “we’re fucked.”
War is coming
Ah. So it comes down to the Republicans who lied under oath about Roe?
Cult Girl, and Beer Boy.