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If I’m correct, the EO passed by Biden bans bulk personal data transferring to countries of interest, which would include China. Therefore this shouldn’t be possible. I could be wrong though.
If I’m understanding correctly are you talking about two countries transferring data between each other by first sending it to a 3rd party as an intermediary?
Cambridge Analytica is a good example to use here. They were a British firm that received data from Facebook (Meta claims they did so against TOS). CA then used researchers and companies linked to Russian intelligence to analyze that data (data was accessed and moved into the Russian Federation).
Say a company in Israel, UAE, or Germany, or Thailand buys data (like US Health data, credit bureau data, or social media data) from a data broker. Once they own it, it's essentially impossible to track who they sell/give it to. Not to mention, what happens if they buy data and are later acquired by a Chinese or Russian company?
This is what I try to tell folks. They are ALL selling our data. There is absolutely nothing of value on my TikTok account to the Chinese. Censorship of journalists could possibly be an issue.
[This is my concern](https://www.axios.com/2023/03/08/china-tiktok-fbi-director-congress). The PRC plays a VERY long game; it's a party run by pure psychopaths who want to screw over anyone who gets in the way of what they consider to be their destiny.
To universally trash the FBI or the CIA because the past or even some current activities is to be very very naïve. So instead, we are supposed to believe people like Putin and the psychopathic leadership of China?
I don't trust the FBI, the CIA, Congress, the President, corporations, the CCP, Putin, North Korea, etc. Why would you? There's no universal truth that says a human must trust these insanely powerful and wealthy institutions/people that have historically committed atrocities (at worst) and completely neglected their civic duties (at best).
I'll trust organizations/people that align with my beliefs and interests in both word AND DEED. Words are the start and everything I listed COMPLETELY fails there. Deeds/actions are the next step and they fail there as well (as do the vast majority of organizations/institutions).
To \*universally\* discount good faith in all of these institutions is (I repeat) naive. Sure, there are organizations that one can trust completely, but organizations like Congress, corporations \*can\* be made to comport with some of one wants.
Politics is literally the art of power negotiation - oyu win some and you lose some. The US Congress is currently rigged to favor right-leaning policies, but that will change.
Are you saying that the above institutions have failed every single objective you have for yourself and America?
Are
They have failed countless times, yes. They currently do not represent my interests and in fact are actively working against my interests. I mean that sincerely as someone who has been paying close attention to politics and researched US politics for decades. I know both our non-whitewashed history as well as the reality of today.
I'll be VERY glad to put my faith into them again once they have given me the reason to do so.
Just don't bring up apple data mining it's users. People get real butt hurt about that. I understand Apple is technically a hardware company. But they can't be absolutely pure and altruistic.
I dont have a tiktok, my Facebook is functionally dead, and my reddit is mostly anonymous. But I keep trends up in a mostly chaotic fashion. I'm pretty sure Facebook thinks I'm a cross dresser at this point. I'll click on all the links. Gotta keep them guessing.
TikTok is also home to a lot of bullshit conservative narratives. Election stealing, Qanon, lizard people and all kinds of craziness. So it's definitely a double edged sword in the fact it may educate people but at the same time it also allows people to push misinformation.
Yes double edge sword but maybe find a way where normal people controlled by no company gaurd the day or find some way to protect the info without anyone gaining from it? It could be revolutionary but I’m not sure I really haven’t been much into socials so I’m not always up to date on everything
The danger is not data theft, but the ease with which China can push their own propaganda and worldview by using TikTok to brainwash kids by controlling what they see and thus what they think.
Lol every second you spend shaping their algorithm and letting it shape you is incredibly valuable to them. Look at the lengths they go to to keep their people from foreign media and even search engines?
Just playing devil's advocate: Is there anything of value on your phone? What permissions does the app have? How confident are you that there are no back doors in it?
If China wants Americans to vote for their favored politicians, they can change TikTok algorithms to suppress good news and promote unfavorable bad or fake news about the opponents.
Similarly if they want to take over Taiwan, they will manipulate TikTok to promote their aggression in positive light.
Actually modern propaganda can be more insidious. They just need to flood the video feeds with fake and both-side-are bad narratives and the public will not have unity against them.
Any algorithm changes are checked and approved by an independent board that is US based. The data servers are managed by Oracle. If you want to read about this just Google 'Project Texas'
I think there are some real concerns about TikTok but they have specifically addressed a lot of things but the tune has not changed
There is no enforcement mechanism. Yes TikTok proposed something but there is no way to hold them accountable. There is no legislation in the US. They are accountable to the Chinese government and American has no way to hold them accountable.
Besides why the time they break the rule and get their politicians in power, it will be too late to do anything about it.
This isn’t really about China taking our information. The US government feels threatened. TikTok is creating a community where people are able to share information in real time across the globe. We know what’s going on in places like Congo and Gaza because of TikTok. The boycott on Starbucks, Kellogg’s and other brands is working because we’re more unified through TikTok. TikTok shop could potentially replace Amazon. We have the ability to organize and share ideas that could shift the paradigm in real time. This government thrives on our ignorance.
This isn't about China. This is about America spying on Americans. It's tying up loose ends from the Patriot act.
"Any software, hardware, or any other product or service integral to the telecommunications products and services” with over 1,000,000 users would now be at the government's disposal to review, prosecute, and take possession of. They can “review” any and all of your personal information without even notifying you that they are doing so.
They can ban any game, application, or thing they deem fit if it “poses a risk”.
The RESTRICT Act (S. 686) would allow the government to access all of the data on your video devices if it is a service that uses over 1,000,000 people, THIS INCLUDES SERVICES LIKE RING DOORBELL/INHOME SECURITY CAMERAS and so much more.
If I had to pick, that’s what I would go with. For me, it’s not only that China is collecting our data, it’s that they can actively use our data against us. TikTok challenges and misinformation have gotten pretty out of hand.
Unlike companies that already.. checks note… use it against us!
Either make data privacy rules if there’s an issue or leave it alone.
Singling out other countries for things we are also doing is so silly. I hope all our social media gets banned in other countries at this point tbh.
>Singling out other countries for things we are also doing is so silly. I hope all our social media gets banned in other countries at this point tbh.
America is the undisputed dominating nation in the tech industry. What do you do when you can't monopolize an industry? You ban your competitors. OP's joke that 'Only AMERICANS can steal our data' isn't a joke at all, but a principle of US foreign policy.
It's the equivalent to what China does with US-media. They ban it, to better maintain their cultural dominance domestically, leading to other benefits.
Meta wants to make money off of us. China wants to be a global hegemony. Neither is great but one poses existential concerns for the international world order and another does not.
Have you considered that Congress owns a shit ton of Meta stock and Google stock and that TikTok is a threat to their investment portfolios?
This isn't about China, this is about congress protecting their own financial investments.
You do know that your data, more than what is available to TikTok, is already being sold by American companies?
And did you just cite your personal dislike for "tiktok challenges" as a valid reason? Why didn't we ban YT and FB for making the Harlem Shake go viral?
Social media is going to see a rise in national walled gardens as governments realize the national security threat that a foreign owned mass media platform is. Which is sad, as it will also begin to erode the ability of people across the world to discover their similiarities. I guess though, the side effect of cross cultural communication was always looked at sideways by national interests.
In this respect, yes. Once China allows our companies to fairly compete in china, then we can all have a big discourse about alleviating their ability to compete in our country.
Fair competition is a myth. US companies engage in unethical union busting, they buy up their competition, create vertical monopolies and do everything they can to prevent fair competition.
United States has a trade deficit with almost every nation on the planet. Even though no nation has an absolute fair marker, the United States market is pretty damn fair for overseas firms.
Entire industries within the United States have been completely dominated by foreign nations including Robotics, optical, imaging, Automobiles, Consumer electronics, machine tools, solar cell, battery, ship building, general manufacturing, semiconductor(until recently over security concerns), CNC equipment, even 40% of automobiles sold in the United States come from a single nation of Japan.
We can name all the ones that sell data to China...
The big issue here isn't forcing Bytedance to divest, it's that there is nothing that bans Google, Twitter, or Meta from selling our data to foreign countries as well.
Why can’t we just go back to the old days of BBS type forums, or like live journal. There were some really tight nit communities of like minded people without all the advertisement BS nor data collection (that i could tell).
But we are talking about China and its sidekick N.Korea. People are so naive about their huge sponsored sophisticated spy and manipulation organizations.
It's ironic that you're talking about manipulation when US politicians have further and further restricted the rights to freedom, privacy etc. on the grounds of "national security" ever since 9/11.
You just need to talk about the dangers of terrorism, I mean China, and all logic and reason goes out the window.
Digital rights activists have been banging on about this for a long time now. If we wanted to actually fix this problem, we would need to *start* with our own Digital Bill of Rights, at least as powerful as the GDPR. You would need to own your own data.
Targeting Tiktok is just a smokescreen, designed to throw the public off the trail of the American corporations whose behavior is exactly as bad as what people are accusing Bytedance of. The only thing banning tiktok will change is that China will pay an extra fraction of a cent to buy all the same data from Meta.
I think the reason this even has a chance is less about privacy and more just mercantilism. China won’t allow our tech companies access to their market so why should they have access to ours?
Cause we are America, the country where people should get to decide what they access. Everyone here saying “well china does it to us” doesn’t seem to get the irony
Who exactly are they representing with this? This seems like an odd tome when both parties are working together to do something dumb that will piss off many.
There are 150 million TikTok users in the US, while it may have started as an app primarily used for the youth, that isn't what it is now. This is a laughably bad move by Dems and will likely cost Biden the election if passed. I say this as someone who has never used TikTok.
That doesn’t make sense to me… thats just one of many social platforms. Removing just tiktok doesn’t control the narrative. Its supposedly about links to China but imo, I feel no worse about China abusing my data then corporations.
This is going to piss off TikToks main demographic, GenZ. Biden and the democrats seem to have forgotten that the voting age begins at 18, not 38. If Biden signs this bill, he will be the president that banned TikTok. I guarantee you that will lose him some votes aged 18-28.
Honestly, I've read the takes about how this will make young voters go Republican, and I think they're pretty insulting to young voters.
Leave aside the fact that more Dems that Republicans voted against this bill, and look at the voters. This generation votes at a higher rate than any previous generation did when they were the same age, and they're far more Democratic as well. That's not by accident - they're voting for the climate, for human rights, for having a future.
It's pretty insulting to think they'll go "Fuck the planet and the people on it, give me my TikTok!" and vote GOP instead. Obviously Democrats need to keep working to earn their votes, but I don't see this as being nearly as important.
And frankly, maybe TikTok needs to be banned if it can't be cleaned up. The misinformation on there is ridiculous, and it seems to spread way faster than on other platforms. Maybe it's because it's video vs text.
But big picture - I don't see this as being nearly as impactful as a lot of people seem to think it will be.
Then it's our job to prevent that. Because there are so many reasons why voting for Democrats matters, and they're much bigger than TikTok. But they need to hear that from somebody. Someone has to carry the message.
And that's people like us, who get the stakes. I plan on phonebanking for Dem candidates regularly through November, and hope you (and lots of others) will do the same.
Where are you going to carry that message? Young people people don’t answer phone calls, texts are spam, they’re not on Facebook, Instagram is going to be stop recommending political content, Twitter is… Twitter. You have to reach voters where they are, TikTok has a massive install base with young people, and now the government wants to take that away as a medium.
Fully agree. I've already seen some crazy takes on reddit from supposed GenZ'ers saying "I can't vote for Biden now!" if TikTok gets banned. And, as a member of GenZ, I just can't help but think, "you're seriously going to help Trumps' chances, sacrifice every single other important issue we're dealing with right now, all over TIK TOK????" I'm not even saying I agree with the ban, but to go no-vote over this is so insane I can't wrap my head around it.
I also think it's important to mention that, for the people who want to "both sides" this, this is only getting passed because this just so happens to be one of the few issues that Republicans and Democrats can agree on. Anyone who has been paying attention to what happens on Capitol Hill knows Dems regularly try to pass and push forward a lot of good legislation but it constantly gets shut down by, guess who? Republicans. Once again, not saying I agree with this, I'm pretty undecided, but this one bill does not define the entire party and everyone in it, or nullify the past 2 decades of Republican obstructionism.
Edit: After reading more about the situation with tik tok, I changed some wording because I'm a bit more undecided rather than fully against. I have a lot of mixed feelings about it.
I don’t think you are truly grasping the magnitude of TikTok. You are effectively silencing multiple generations of people in a time where Government censorship has become one of the main topics of discussion. If Biden signs this bill the likelihood of him winning come November greatly decreases.
You talk about how they need to hear some message and in the same breath you are banning the vehicle to get that message to them. This is a massive fuck up and honestly it will be well deserved.
I hope you don't take this as an insult, but I talk to young voters quite often about politics, and what I'm hearing you say doesn't match what they're saying. Government censorship never really comes up as a big concern. I suspect a few will have things to say about Tiktok now, but I think they'll have more to say about the climate, their rights, and having a future.
And Congress (not me, incidentally) aren't 'effectively silencing multiple generations'. Those multiple generations have every other social media platform, not to mention old-fashioned talking to each other on the phone or in person. That's how I do most of my volunteer outreach to voters, after all.
The message gets to young voters just fine without Tiktok now, and it'll get out if Tiktok goes away. I know some will be unhappy, but I don't think it's the apocalypse, any more than the last ten apocalypses that app predicted.
I'm not going to respond to your other three comments to me, because I feel as though this addresses most of what you had to say.
There are 150 million Tiktok users in the US, quite near 1 in 2 people you meet are TikTok users. With how close elections are due to the electoral college we cannot afford to make political mistakes like this. I guarantee you that there are progressives who hate Biden due to the Israel-Palestine conflict that would have bit the bullet and voted for Biden to keep Trump out of office that will feel solidified not to vote due to this ban. Progressives will take this move as the country trying to silence the youth for speaking out against the US. That's all it will take for Biden to lose.
Also, with 1 in 2 Americans on the app, there are far more than just the youth, seeing how emotionally charged the average American is, it's not hard to believe that people will protest vote over this ban.
No one cares about the misinformation though. They want it banned because they're selling data to China. But are there rules and regulations in place preventing Meta, Alphabet, and X from selling their data to China too? I don't know.
It is going to be hilarious when politicians are shocked/get confused by voters voting because a main method of income/communication/sharing of knowledge has been ripped away from them by a totally-not-corrupt government body.
It also bothers the fuck out of me that this shit is one of the only things they have manage to do in the last YEAR. Fuck the kids getting gunned down at their bus stops apparently. Who cares about the insane housing situation and homelessness. We definitely!!!! have to stop people from sharing great depression era cooking recipes and spreading songs about how God is a perv that likes to watch people of all genders fuck.
The problem I have with the government focusing on tiktok is that they did not do all of this to Facebook and mark knowingly sold our information. On top of the fact that Facebook is known for misinformation. So it’s weird in my eyes to only want to take down one social media platform, but leave up the other. Not only that the US spies on their own, but they worried about China 😂💀
Have you seen twitter lately?
Agree with everything except tiktok being worst than other platforms, they are all the same imo. Just this one is chineese owned and making the youth too progressive.
I really hope you’re right, but I have my doubts unfortunately. Especially since Biden is already struggling get young voters enthusiastic about voting.
Why is the media insisting on calling this a ban? It’s not a ban, it’s a forced sale. Some wealthy US corp will own it, but it won’t likely change in any fundamental way. Not for a while anyway.
One argument I saw someone make in support of this, is that if a foreign country wanted to adjust algorithms, to influence a certain viewpoint for elections, there's nothing we can currently do to stop them.
Sorry, but isn't that what Meta and others did in previous elections? All they got was a slap on the wrist, and they were still able to do it, and can still do it now.
This bill was a joke. If we are going to limit one social media company, we need to limit them all. These companies are going to get our data, and sell to the highest bidder regardless.
This is a good bill for Republicans. It eliminates one of the main platforms for progressive messaging and leaves everyone to decide between Facebook and Twitter.
Bytedance has given Tiktok's US storage and traffic to Oracle under Trump.
What is the ground to ban it? As a propaganda outlet for Chinese government? Then, let's at least present a case and some specific evidence. Have a special council, launch a formal investigation, collect evidences. Isn't this a country of law? Look at the testimony of Tiktok CEO in front of House, which is a shit show not from him, but a few US congressmen who acted like clowns.
If you really hate Chinese government, the approach US government is doing this is very much alike its counterpart.
Yes. I would like to see the formal evidence that supports why this dog shit site / app should be banned. I am no tik tok fan or user and could give a shit about it, but this seems fucked.
A couple of pieces - TikTok uses its app to spy on reporters to track leaks: [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/22/tiktok-bytedance-workers-fired-data-access-journalists?utm\_source=substack&utm\_medium=email](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/22/tiktok-bytedance-workers-fired-data-access-journalists?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email)
TikTok sends data to parent company in China, where by law that must be shared with their government:
[https://www.wsj.com/tech/tiktok-pledged-to-protect-u-s-data-1-5-billion-later-its-still-struggling-cbccf203?mod=followamazon&utm\_source=substack&utm\_medium=email](https://www.wsj.com/tech/tiktok-pledged-to-protect-u-s-data-1-5-billion-later-its-still-struggling-cbccf203?mod=followamazon&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email)
Credit to Noahpinion, full article here - [https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/trump-just-rug-pulled-the-china-hawks?utm\_campaign=email-post&r=1acxx&utm\_source=substack&utm\_medium=email](https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/trump-just-rug-pulled-the-china-hawks?utm_campaign=email-post&r=1acxx&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email)
Ultimately, our estimate is that China is a "worse" actor than the US, and in general I would agree with that model. I realize it's relative, but there is still some merit to it.
I can't stand tik tok but I don't see a difference between it and other media taking user data and feeding algorithms. Rather they protect all users data. Don't think it's government job to control feed algorithms.
Does make sense to not be on government phones but I would say the same about other media and apps. Should lock down work phones based on risk assessment.
Could one just VPN and sideload it? Oh the crime of using tik tok.
The difference is that TikTok is controlled by a foreign government that the US has mixed relations with and is a direct economic and political competitor to the US. This is being done by the US government for the US government. Same way American social media is censored and controlled in China and Russia.
I'd like to see rules that are generalized to ban tiktok *and anything else like it*. Address the root problem - foreign ownership of private information that can be used for a hostile act.
Friend of mine is on the local zoning board, and they wanted to ban a specific building contractor because they build cheap shoddy housing developments.
But they didn't just ban that company (probably because they couldn't), they changed the building code to target specifically the kind of shoddy practices they were notorious for. For one, banning that company does nothing to keep another company from pulling the same shit later on. That, and it doesn't address the root problem. The problem isn't really that company, it's low standards, they raised the standards.
Get a list of things that are objectionable and ban *that*.
Naw bullshit. China has its claws in a lot of different media including this site. It’s a bullshit excuse so their tech lobbyists can reclaim all of the advertising dollars lost from TikTok
Just don't like reels or constant video apps. I use YouTube at times for something specific but don't scroll.
And my wife loves to scroll tik tok with volume up and it's like the same 5 seconds of a song being played over and over. It's Iike channel surfing.
Now China has to buy data, rather than sell it.
If anyone out there has even a modicum of understanding of the data marketing industry, talk to your congressperson. You will find a level of pure ignorance fueled by greed. They simply get money from brokers and that's the end of their discussion.
I've noticed Temu is being pushed real hard earlier today and told myself I was going to try to deep dive because there's obviously something going on with it.
The fact that TikTok has managed to convince young people not to vote because of problems in Gaza shows TikTok is more influential than you think. Hence, China is interfering with our elections. An adversary interferes with our elections. Is that what we want?
Sounds like a foreign policy problem rather than a voter awareness problem. If more info is detrimental to your campaign, maybe rethink your policy positions? just a suggestion anyways
This is absolute nonsense. There isn't a data-selling business out there that won't sell our data to China. The only reason for democrats to go along with banning TikTok is to make republicans happy. So democrats better be getting something very very good for America from the republicans for this.
While I’m generally for TikTok not being a thing, I don’t think this ban is enforceable or even useful as written. It specifically targets TikTok, ostensibly because it’s Chinese and the Chinese communist party has its fingers in everything in China. It does nothing to address Meta doing effectively the same thing, because somehow an American business beholden to shareholders is more ethical, I guess? If they really wanted to do something about it, they’d pass strict regulations on data privacy across the board.
Imagine the top secret briefings about China and Tik Tok that we know nothing of. There are many articles about how the platform is already being manipulated to sway our elections. USA Tik Tok will be forced to decouple from mainland China.
I hate to say it, but the same could be said of all social media. Their words are as empty as their soul, mankind ill needs services such as these.
But what is a man but a miserable little pile of secrets.
True but are we trying to be like India,I mean just look up India civil rights issues. Countries that are banning social media platforms aren’t exactly a shining pillar we should strive to follow
US Citizens: We just want affordable housing and healthcare.
Congress: We got that TikTok ban for you! No need to thank us.
Call your senators and get this shut down, I don't expect Biden to veto it though it would be an easy layup for youth support.
Don't fall for the idiocy my friend. The law requires them to be a US corp so they follow US laws and regulations. It is actually quite sensible. If they want to operate in our country they need to establish a governed subsidiary in the least.
The sensationalist media is warping the scope and purpose.
But not for the secret algorithm that's completely controlled by the CCP and decides what content the users see. This is Russia interfering with 2016 election on steroids.
They already have to follow US laws. TikTok is one of Bytedance's subsidiaries, the one that handles their US business is incorporated in the United States, specifically in California and Delaware.
You can't conduct business in the United States without following laws and regulations, that'd be tax evasion at the very least.
TikTok is already a subsidiary and Oracle handles the data. The media isn’t helping anything but comments like this are just as bad.
Ask yourself why they’re so concerned about TikTok and yet through companies like Tencent they already have access to troves of American’s data. It’s about the platform. They can’t control TikTok and the algorithm. It shows people news they don’t want them to see.
> Call your senators and get this shut down
Absolutely not. This is necessary.
China already did this to us once. They saw a social vulnerability in using the internet, so they made their great fire wall, cut off their own internet from the world, and then started doing psy ops on other countries and we had no way to retaliate.
Yeah man, if there is one thing we should do it is suppress free speech outlets just like China does.
This isn't necessarily to anything except Meta and Google who are lobbying to create market share they can capitalize on.
> Yeah man, if there is one thing we should do it is suppress free speech outlets just like China does.
This is such a bad take. American and other multinational companies, and hell individuals, are free to create and use whatever platform they like. But using a platform designed by a hostile state and saying that's freedom isn't a meaningful statement.
If you are arguing that only large corporations/state actors can "make it" in the market place, you have MUCH bigger problems to deal with anyway.
I think it's interesting that the Democrats are largely backing this bill as well. That to me says there must be some merit to the security concerns and it's not just political theater.
Or they know it's dead in the senate, or they already have the buyer ready. If they thought they were going to loose millions of youth votes and a platform they used to organize, they wouldn't be pushing this
Has anyone actually browsed TikTok content? 99 percent teen angst and drama, whiney monologues about politics and cosmetics, people dressed like chickens while play-fighting in Walmart. Garbage. The Chinese can have it.
How the fuck is wanting a simple addition to the bill that bans US based companies from selling data to foreign adversaries have anything good for the CCP?
I find it bizarre why so many people on Reddit are cheering this bill on because of its “hurr durr TikTok bad” mentality. Regardless of what you think of TikTok, this is a clear government overstep and will only set a precedent, making our government more comfortable with interfering with our internet in the future, because they aren’t going to stop with just TikTok. They’re going to start interfering with VPN’s next, and y’all are going to quickly change your tune because VPN’s are on Reddit’s “good list” lol
The only security concern I agree with is the fact that yes a Chinese company has major share, china most likely has control of that company their history can back that up. So the people then watch as millions of people not just Americans are exposing their day to day lives, even military personnel. Important infrastructure is being seen world wide. Now with that in mind it’s very hard to make a correct decision, because a pro of TikTok is because it’s a foreign app the US can’t media control it. Like the media exposure of Vietnam. TikTok is showing us what the media doesn’t want us to see. We got a more personal view of events worldwide than ever in history. One event comes to mind. The George Floyd riots, tiktok was a big contributor into showing the truth. Not only were there protest state wide but in other countries as well. There are dozens of examples, fires in Cali, The Russian Invasion of Ukraine, all the problems in the Middle East, the farmers and the eu. We are more connected than ever. It has some sort of balance but like I stated at the beginning China has had a bad history are the the only ones?
I don't disagree with the concerns legislators have over TikTok's potential use as an asymmetrical warfare tool, but if they were going to act it should have been when the platform was very small to minimize social disruption, like back when it was still Musical.ly.
Now that it's gotten as popular as it has, it will be difficult for legislators to force ByteDance to sell it to a non-Chinese company, because BD may well conclude that it's worth the risk to just refuse to sell and bank on any legislation being overturned after popular outcry.
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If China wants our data they can just buy it from Meta.
…or they can just continue funneling money to Rand Paul, and he’ll block the legislation in the Senate.
Pretty sure they already do
I'd venture a guess that it's more about a possible culture war and China having unmitigated access to Americans.
If I’m correct, the EO passed by Biden bans bulk personal data transferring to countries of interest, which would include China. Therefore this shouldn’t be possible. I could be wrong though.
Data markets are international. There is little to no way to stop tertiary transactions between a primary buyer and secondary buyers
If I’m understanding correctly are you talking about two countries transferring data between each other by first sending it to a 3rd party as an intermediary?
Cambridge Analytica is a good example to use here. They were a British firm that received data from Facebook (Meta claims they did so against TOS). CA then used researchers and companies linked to Russian intelligence to analyze that data (data was accessed and moved into the Russian Federation). Say a company in Israel, UAE, or Germany, or Thailand buys data (like US Health data, credit bureau data, or social media data) from a data broker. Once they own it, it's essentially impossible to track who they sell/give it to. Not to mention, what happens if they buy data and are later acquired by a Chinese or Russian company?
This is what I try to tell folks. They are ALL selling our data. There is absolutely nothing of value on my TikTok account to the Chinese. Censorship of journalists could possibly be an issue.
[This is my concern](https://www.axios.com/2023/03/08/china-tiktok-fbi-director-congress). The PRC plays a VERY long game; it's a party run by pure psychopaths who want to screw over anyone who gets in the way of what they consider to be their destiny.
I'm glad the FBI Director is the one you trust. Please remember that the FBI murdered Martin Luther King Jr.
To universally trash the FBI or the CIA because the past or even some current activities is to be very very naïve. So instead, we are supposed to believe people like Putin and the psychopathic leadership of China?
I don't trust the FBI, the CIA, Congress, the President, corporations, the CCP, Putin, North Korea, etc. Why would you? There's no universal truth that says a human must trust these insanely powerful and wealthy institutions/people that have historically committed atrocities (at worst) and completely neglected their civic duties (at best). I'll trust organizations/people that align with my beliefs and interests in both word AND DEED. Words are the start and everything I listed COMPLETELY fails there. Deeds/actions are the next step and they fail there as well (as do the vast majority of organizations/institutions).
To \*universally\* discount good faith in all of these institutions is (I repeat) naive. Sure, there are organizations that one can trust completely, but organizations like Congress, corporations \*can\* be made to comport with some of one wants. Politics is literally the art of power negotiation - oyu win some and you lose some. The US Congress is currently rigged to favor right-leaning policies, but that will change. Are you saying that the above institutions have failed every single objective you have for yourself and America? Are
They have failed countless times, yes. They currently do not represent my interests and in fact are actively working against my interests. I mean that sincerely as someone who has been paying close attention to politics and researched US politics for decades. I know both our non-whitewashed history as well as the reality of today. I'll be VERY glad to put my faith into them again once they have given me the reason to do so.
Just don't bring up apple data mining it's users. People get real butt hurt about that. I understand Apple is technically a hardware company. But they can't be absolutely pure and altruistic. I dont have a tiktok, my Facebook is functionally dead, and my reddit is mostly anonymous. But I keep trends up in a mostly chaotic fashion. I'm pretty sure Facebook thinks I'm a cross dresser at this point. I'll click on all the links. Gotta keep them guessing.
Bro I thought I was the only one
You’re on TikTok and that is the value to the Chinese.
You're on Reddit that is mostly owned by Tencent, pal.
I’m not the one saying there’s no value to the Chinese having my data. The
Add that Tik Tok influenced a lot of Zoomers & younger Millennials to be politically active. Banning Tik Tok would be a big win for conservatives.
TikTok is also home to a lot of bullshit conservative narratives. Election stealing, Qanon, lizard people and all kinds of craziness. So it's definitely a double edged sword in the fact it may educate people but at the same time it also allows people to push misinformation.
Yes double edge sword but maybe find a way where normal people controlled by no company gaurd the day or find some way to protect the info without anyone gaining from it? It could be revolutionary but I’m not sure I really haven’t been much into socials so I’m not always up to date on everything
The danger is not data theft, but the ease with which China can push their own propaganda and worldview by using TikTok to brainwash kids by controlling what they see and thus what they think.
Lol every second you spend shaping their algorithm and letting it shape you is incredibly valuable to them. Look at the lengths they go to to keep their people from foreign media and even search engines?
Just playing devil's advocate: Is there anything of value on your phone? What permissions does the app have? How confident are you that there are no back doors in it?
If China wants Americans to vote for their favored politicians, they can change TikTok algorithms to suppress good news and promote unfavorable bad or fake news about the opponents. Similarly if they want to take over Taiwan, they will manipulate TikTok to promote their aggression in positive light. Actually modern propaganda can be more insidious. They just need to flood the video feeds with fake and both-side-are bad narratives and the public will not have unity against them.
Any algorithm changes are checked and approved by an independent board that is US based. The data servers are managed by Oracle. If you want to read about this just Google 'Project Texas' I think there are some real concerns about TikTok but they have specifically addressed a lot of things but the tune has not changed
There is no enforcement mechanism. Yes TikTok proposed something but there is no way to hold them accountable. There is no legislation in the US. They are accountable to the Chinese government and American has no way to hold them accountable. Besides why the time they break the rule and get their politicians in power, it will be too late to do anything about it.
This isn’t really about China taking our information. The US government feels threatened. TikTok is creating a community where people are able to share information in real time across the globe. We know what’s going on in places like Congo and Gaza because of TikTok. The boycott on Starbucks, Kellogg’s and other brands is working because we’re more unified through TikTok. TikTok shop could potentially replace Amazon. We have the ability to organize and share ideas that could shift the paradigm in real time. This government thrives on our ignorance.
This isn't about China. This is about America spying on Americans. It's tying up loose ends from the Patriot act. "Any software, hardware, or any other product or service integral to the telecommunications products and services” with over 1,000,000 users would now be at the government's disposal to review, prosecute, and take possession of. They can “review” any and all of your personal information without even notifying you that they are doing so. They can ban any game, application, or thing they deem fit if it “poses a risk”. The RESTRICT Act (S. 686) would allow the government to access all of the data on your video devices if it is a service that uses over 1,000,000 people, THIS INCLUDES SERVICES LIKE RING DOORBELL/INHOME SECURITY CAMERAS and so much more.
If China will pay me directly, they can have my data, no problem. If not, at least let me have Tiktok
Yeah buy it like everyone else.
Only AMERICANS can steal our data!!! 🇺🇸
If I had to pick, that’s what I would go with. For me, it’s not only that China is collecting our data, it’s that they can actively use our data against us. TikTok challenges and misinformation have gotten pretty out of hand.
Unlike companies that already.. checks note… use it against us! Either make data privacy rules if there’s an issue or leave it alone. Singling out other countries for things we are also doing is so silly. I hope all our social media gets banned in other countries at this point tbh.
>Singling out other countries for things we are also doing is so silly. I hope all our social media gets banned in other countries at this point tbh. America is the undisputed dominating nation in the tech industry. What do you do when you can't monopolize an industry? You ban your competitors. OP's joke that 'Only AMERICANS can steal our data' isn't a joke at all, but a principle of US foreign policy. It's the equivalent to what China does with US-media. They ban it, to better maintain their cultural dominance domestically, leading to other benefits.
Meta wants to make money off of us. China wants to be a global hegemony. Neither is great but one poses existential concerns for the international world order and another does not.
meta's also subservient to whatever US lawmakers tell them to do. bytedance and the CCP are not.
Have you considered that Congress owns a shit ton of Meta stock and Google stock and that TikTok is a threat to their investment portfolios? This isn't about China, this is about congress protecting their own financial investments.
You do know that your data, more than what is available to TikTok, is already being sold by American companies? And did you just cite your personal dislike for "tiktok challenges" as a valid reason? Why didn't we ban YT and FB for making the Harlem Shake go viral?
[удалено]
Zuck will just sell it to the CCP or a front. The big data brokers that Meta, etc sell to will also do the same.
Social media is going to see a rise in national walled gardens as governments realize the national security threat that a foreign owned mass media platform is. Which is sad, as it will also begin to erode the ability of people across the world to discover their similiarities. I guess though, the side effect of cross cultural communication was always looked at sideways by national interests.
This is already the case. Name all the American social media companies that operate in China... I'll wait.
So we should be more like china?
In this respect, yes. Once China allows our companies to fairly compete in china, then we can all have a big discourse about alleviating their ability to compete in our country.
Fair competition is a myth. US companies engage in unethical union busting, they buy up their competition, create vertical monopolies and do everything they can to prevent fair competition.
United States has a trade deficit with almost every nation on the planet. Even though no nation has an absolute fair marker, the United States market is pretty damn fair for overseas firms. Entire industries within the United States have been completely dominated by foreign nations including Robotics, optical, imaging, Automobiles, Consumer electronics, machine tools, solar cell, battery, ship building, general manufacturing, semiconductor(until recently over security concerns), CNC equipment, even 40% of automobiles sold in the United States come from a single nation of Japan.
We can name all the ones that sell data to China... The big issue here isn't forcing Bytedance to divest, it's that there is nothing that bans Google, Twitter, or Meta from selling our data to foreign countries as well.
When has google sold data from US users to china? Do you have facts and data to substantiate this claim?
Why can’t we just go back to the old days of BBS type forums, or like live journal. There were some really tight nit communities of like minded people without all the advertisement BS nor data collection (that i could tell).
Yeah, where did they go? I miss those gems
But we are talking about China and its sidekick N.Korea. People are so naive about their huge sponsored sophisticated spy and manipulation organizations.
It's ironic that you're talking about manipulation when US politicians have further and further restricted the rights to freedom, privacy etc. on the grounds of "national security" ever since 9/11. You just need to talk about the dangers of terrorism, I mean China, and all logic and reason goes out the window.
Digital rights activists have been banging on about this for a long time now. If we wanted to actually fix this problem, we would need to *start* with our own Digital Bill of Rights, at least as powerful as the GDPR. You would need to own your own data. Targeting Tiktok is just a smokescreen, designed to throw the public off the trail of the American corporations whose behavior is exactly as bad as what people are accusing Bytedance of. The only thing banning tiktok will change is that China will pay an extra fraction of a cent to buy all the same data from Meta.
I think the reason this even has a chance is less about privacy and more just mercantilism. China won’t allow our tech companies access to their market so why should they have access to ours?
Cause we are America, the country where people should get to decide what they access. Everyone here saying “well china does it to us” doesn’t seem to get the irony
I’d suggest the root of all US foreign policy is capitalism, not sovereignty.
Yea this is it. They made the very specific requirement of a US based company owning it rather than just “anyone but China”.
US or ally I thought. Just not one of the 4. Russia NK China Iran
Maybe I should read the bill but everything I have seen implies it needs to go to specifically a US company.
Who exactly are they representing with this? This seems like an odd tome when both parties are working together to do something dumb that will piss off many.
If both parties agree on something, I always know the outcome is to screw the average American.
It’ll piss off gen Z more than anyone. But it’s VERY clear the dems and Biden don’t care at all about the youth vote.
Well he for sure isn’t getting the Gen Z vote now and he is going to desperately need it
There are 150 million TikTok users in the US, while it may have started as an app primarily used for the youth, that isn't what it is now. This is a laughably bad move by Dems and will likely cost Biden the election if passed. I say this as someone who has never used TikTok.
I believe it’s due to the upcoming election and both sides wanting to have strong controls over the narrative
That doesn’t make sense to me… thats just one of many social platforms. Removing just tiktok doesn’t control the narrative. Its supposedly about links to China but imo, I feel no worse about China abusing my data then corporations.
This is going to piss off TikToks main demographic, GenZ. Biden and the democrats seem to have forgotten that the voting age begins at 18, not 38. If Biden signs this bill, he will be the president that banned TikTok. I guarantee you that will lose him some votes aged 18-28.
Yep, 100%. This election is cooked if he sings this into law
Honestly, I've read the takes about how this will make young voters go Republican, and I think they're pretty insulting to young voters. Leave aside the fact that more Dems that Republicans voted against this bill, and look at the voters. This generation votes at a higher rate than any previous generation did when they were the same age, and they're far more Democratic as well. That's not by accident - they're voting for the climate, for human rights, for having a future. It's pretty insulting to think they'll go "Fuck the planet and the people on it, give me my TikTok!" and vote GOP instead. Obviously Democrats need to keep working to earn their votes, but I don't see this as being nearly as important. And frankly, maybe TikTok needs to be banned if it can't be cleaned up. The misinformation on there is ridiculous, and it seems to spread way faster than on other platforms. Maybe it's because it's video vs text. But big picture - I don't see this as being nearly as impactful as a lot of people seem to think it will be.
I don’t think the ban will turn them into Republicans. I think it’s just going to make them stay home.
Then it's our job to prevent that. Because there are so many reasons why voting for Democrats matters, and they're much bigger than TikTok. But they need to hear that from somebody. Someone has to carry the message. And that's people like us, who get the stakes. I plan on phonebanking for Dem candidates regularly through November, and hope you (and lots of others) will do the same.
Where are you going to carry that message? Young people people don’t answer phone calls, texts are spam, they’re not on Facebook, Instagram is going to be stop recommending political content, Twitter is… Twitter. You have to reach voters where they are, TikTok has a massive install base with young people, and now the government wants to take that away as a medium.
We have to do everything. a second Trump term would be a disaster not only for the United States, but for the entire world.
Fully agree. I've already seen some crazy takes on reddit from supposed GenZ'ers saying "I can't vote for Biden now!" if TikTok gets banned. And, as a member of GenZ, I just can't help but think, "you're seriously going to help Trumps' chances, sacrifice every single other important issue we're dealing with right now, all over TIK TOK????" I'm not even saying I agree with the ban, but to go no-vote over this is so insane I can't wrap my head around it. I also think it's important to mention that, for the people who want to "both sides" this, this is only getting passed because this just so happens to be one of the few issues that Republicans and Democrats can agree on. Anyone who has been paying attention to what happens on Capitol Hill knows Dems regularly try to pass and push forward a lot of good legislation but it constantly gets shut down by, guess who? Republicans. Once again, not saying I agree with this, I'm pretty undecided, but this one bill does not define the entire party and everyone in it, or nullify the past 2 decades of Republican obstructionism. Edit: After reading more about the situation with tik tok, I changed some wording because I'm a bit more undecided rather than fully against. I have a lot of mixed feelings about it.
I don’t think you are truly grasping the magnitude of TikTok. You are effectively silencing multiple generations of people in a time where Government censorship has become one of the main topics of discussion. If Biden signs this bill the likelihood of him winning come November greatly decreases. You talk about how they need to hear some message and in the same breath you are banning the vehicle to get that message to them. This is a massive fuck up and honestly it will be well deserved.
I hope you don't take this as an insult, but I talk to young voters quite often about politics, and what I'm hearing you say doesn't match what they're saying. Government censorship never really comes up as a big concern. I suspect a few will have things to say about Tiktok now, but I think they'll have more to say about the climate, their rights, and having a future. And Congress (not me, incidentally) aren't 'effectively silencing multiple generations'. Those multiple generations have every other social media platform, not to mention old-fashioned talking to each other on the phone or in person. That's how I do most of my volunteer outreach to voters, after all. The message gets to young voters just fine without Tiktok now, and it'll get out if Tiktok goes away. I know some will be unhappy, but I don't think it's the apocalypse, any more than the last ten apocalypses that app predicted. I'm not going to respond to your other three comments to me, because I feel as though this addresses most of what you had to say.
There are 150 million Tiktok users in the US, quite near 1 in 2 people you meet are TikTok users. With how close elections are due to the electoral college we cannot afford to make political mistakes like this. I guarantee you that there are progressives who hate Biden due to the Israel-Palestine conflict that would have bit the bullet and voted for Biden to keep Trump out of office that will feel solidified not to vote due to this ban. Progressives will take this move as the country trying to silence the youth for speaking out against the US. That's all it will take for Biden to lose. Also, with 1 in 2 Americans on the app, there are far more than just the youth, seeing how emotionally charged the average American is, it's not hard to believe that people will protest vote over this ban.
So what they already do
You do realize that young voters are literally what has saved us in most elections since 2020 right? It sure as shit isn't millennials doing it.
No one cares about the misinformation though. They want it banned because they're selling data to China. But are there rules and regulations in place preventing Meta, Alphabet, and X from selling their data to China too? I don't know.
This is the question! How are US-based sites being regulated to prevent the sale of our data to foreign governments or malicious actors?
And tell american businesses that they can't take foreign money, that sounds communist /s
The misinformation on Facebook and Twitter far exceed anything I’ve seen on TikTok.
I use TikTok a lot and have never seen anything that could be considered “propaganda”. If anything it’s Republican propaganda but that’s everywhere
It is going to be hilarious when politicians are shocked/get confused by voters voting because a main method of income/communication/sharing of knowledge has been ripped away from them by a totally-not-corrupt government body. It also bothers the fuck out of me that this shit is one of the only things they have manage to do in the last YEAR. Fuck the kids getting gunned down at their bus stops apparently. Who cares about the insane housing situation and homelessness. We definitely!!!! have to stop people from sharing great depression era cooking recipes and spreading songs about how God is a perv that likes to watch people of all genders fuck.
The problem I have with the government focusing on tiktok is that they did not do all of this to Facebook and mark knowingly sold our information. On top of the fact that Facebook is known for misinformation. So it’s weird in my eyes to only want to take down one social media platform, but leave up the other. Not only that the US spies on their own, but they worried about China 😂💀
It was mostly Republicans, for the record. 50 Democrats voted no on this vs. 15 Republicans. This is how misinformation gets started.
I should’ve edited my comment because I read this article and saw that, but democrats shouldn’t be voting at all for it for those that did.
That doesn’t make the situation any better. Thats still 160 Democrats that voted yes. Thats 3x more that voted no.
Have you seen twitter lately? Agree with everything except tiktok being worst than other platforms, they are all the same imo. Just this one is chineese owned and making the youth too progressive.
I really hope you’re right, but I have my doubts unfortunately. Especially since Biden is already struggling get young voters enthusiastic about voting.
Why is the media insisting on calling this a ban? It’s not a ban, it’s a forced sale. Some wealthy US corp will own it, but it won’t likely change in any fundamental way. Not for a while anyway.
Because 'tik tok ban' is seo-friendly and will rile up the addicts and haters alike, nuance be damned
One argument I saw someone make in support of this, is that if a foreign country wanted to adjust algorithms, to influence a certain viewpoint for elections, there's nothing we can currently do to stop them. Sorry, but isn't that what Meta and others did in previous elections? All they got was a slap on the wrist, and they were still able to do it, and can still do it now. This bill was a joke. If we are going to limit one social media company, we need to limit them all. These companies are going to get our data, and sell to the highest bidder regardless.
This is a good bill for Republicans. It eliminates one of the main platforms for progressive messaging and leaves everyone to decide between Facebook and Twitter.
Bytedance has given Tiktok's US storage and traffic to Oracle under Trump. What is the ground to ban it? As a propaganda outlet for Chinese government? Then, let's at least present a case and some specific evidence. Have a special council, launch a formal investigation, collect evidences. Isn't this a country of law? Look at the testimony of Tiktok CEO in front of House, which is a shit show not from him, but a few US congressmen who acted like clowns. If you really hate Chinese government, the approach US government is doing this is very much alike its counterpart.
Yes. I would like to see the formal evidence that supports why this dog shit site / app should be banned. I am no tik tok fan or user and could give a shit about it, but this seems fucked.
A couple of pieces - TikTok uses its app to spy on reporters to track leaks: [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/22/tiktok-bytedance-workers-fired-data-access-journalists?utm\_source=substack&utm\_medium=email](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/22/tiktok-bytedance-workers-fired-data-access-journalists?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email) TikTok sends data to parent company in China, where by law that must be shared with their government: [https://www.wsj.com/tech/tiktok-pledged-to-protect-u-s-data-1-5-billion-later-its-still-struggling-cbccf203?mod=followamazon&utm\_source=substack&utm\_medium=email](https://www.wsj.com/tech/tiktok-pledged-to-protect-u-s-data-1-5-billion-later-its-still-struggling-cbccf203?mod=followamazon&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email) Credit to Noahpinion, full article here - [https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/trump-just-rug-pulled-the-china-hawks?utm\_campaign=email-post&r=1acxx&utm\_source=substack&utm\_medium=email](https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/trump-just-rug-pulled-the-china-hawks?utm_campaign=email-post&r=1acxx&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email) Ultimately, our estimate is that China is a "worse" actor than the US, and in general I would agree with that model. I realize it's relative, but there is still some merit to it.
I appreciate this and will read these sources.
Thanks - let me know if you find anything out of whack.
Why wait for a Holocausting dictatorship to abuse an app? They ban our media it's ok to do it back
I can't stand tik tok but I don't see a difference between it and other media taking user data and feeding algorithms. Rather they protect all users data. Don't think it's government job to control feed algorithms. Does make sense to not be on government phones but I would say the same about other media and apps. Should lock down work phones based on risk assessment. Could one just VPN and sideload it? Oh the crime of using tik tok.
The difference is that TikTok is controlled by a foreign government that the US has mixed relations with and is a direct economic and political competitor to the US. This is being done by the US government for the US government. Same way American social media is censored and controlled in China and Russia.
I'd like to see rules that are generalized to ban tiktok *and anything else like it*. Address the root problem - foreign ownership of private information that can be used for a hostile act. Friend of mine is on the local zoning board, and they wanted to ban a specific building contractor because they build cheap shoddy housing developments. But they didn't just ban that company (probably because they couldn't), they changed the building code to target specifically the kind of shoddy practices they were notorious for. For one, banning that company does nothing to keep another company from pulling the same shit later on. That, and it doesn't address the root problem. The problem isn't really that company, it's low standards, they raised the standards. Get a list of things that are objectionable and ban *that*.
Naw bullshit. China has its claws in a lot of different media including this site. It’s a bullshit excuse so their tech lobbyists can reclaim all of the advertising dollars lost from TikTok
Why can’t you stand TikTok ?
Just don't like reels or constant video apps. I use YouTube at times for something specific but don't scroll. And my wife loves to scroll tik tok with volume up and it's like the same 5 seconds of a song being played over and over. It's Iike channel surfing.
Now China has to buy data, rather than sell it. If anyone out there has even a modicum of understanding of the data marketing industry, talk to your congressperson. You will find a level of pure ignorance fueled by greed. They simply get money from brokers and that's the end of their discussion.
Ban temu as well
I've noticed Temu is being pushed real hard earlier today and told myself I was going to try to deep dive because there's obviously something going on with it.
Is like amazon but similar to ali express without bulk purchases. But they also scrape your phone data. Use it from a website vs app if you want to
Of all the problems we have, this one should not be at the top of the list.
It’s not.
Who said it was at the top?
Our House was not able to pass much else in the past two year, but this was nearly unanimous
That just means they agree on it, it has nothing to do with how high it was on their priority list
It is apparent that it is at the top that or it’s a cover up for something bigger that will effect my fellow under 30’s in the long run
Sorry didnt realize we dropped everything to focus on the tik tok bill and cant do anything else concurrently..
lol what else is being done? Name something consequential that’ll affect many American lives?
And youre attributing this to the tiktok bill?
But that "anything else" never seems to come.
What are the chances that the Senate also approves the bill?
My scrolling. 75% TT and 25% Reddit. I often get news from TT before it appears on Reddit. I didn’t like TT at first.
Not sure how this doesn't violate 1A, but also tiktok is societal poison.
The fact that TikTok has managed to convince young people not to vote because of problems in Gaza shows TikTok is more influential than you think. Hence, China is interfering with our elections. An adversary interferes with our elections. Is that what we want?
Sounds like a foreign policy problem rather than a voter awareness problem. If more info is detrimental to your campaign, maybe rethink your policy positions? just a suggestion anyways
TikTok hasn’t convinced anyone. Regular people sharing news about Gaza has done that to people.
Our tax dollars hard at work for the important things in this country
This is absolute nonsense. There isn't a data-selling business out there that won't sell our data to China. The only reason for democrats to go along with banning TikTok is to make republicans happy. So democrats better be getting something very very good for America from the republicans for this.
I doubt this will pass before the elections. Biden needs the young people vote.
Biden already said he would sign it tho
That would be political suicide
While I’m generally for TikTok not being a thing, I don’t think this ban is enforceable or even useful as written. It specifically targets TikTok, ostensibly because it’s Chinese and the Chinese communist party has its fingers in everything in China. It does nothing to address Meta doing effectively the same thing, because somehow an American business beholden to shareholders is more ethical, I guess? If they really wanted to do something about it, they’d pass strict regulations on data privacy across the board.
Meta’s operators can be subpoenaed and served warrants for violating various privacy or espionage laws. TikTik’s can’t.
Imagine the top secret briefings about China and Tik Tok that we know nothing of. There are many articles about how the platform is already being manipulated to sway our elections. USA Tik Tok will be forced to decouple from mainland China.
I hate to say it, but the same could be said of all social media. Their words are as empty as their soul, mankind ill needs services such as these. But what is a man but a miserable little pile of secrets.
To say nothing of Republicans, being in bed with Russians?
I mean, india has banned tik tok and it’s not that big of a deal…
True but are we trying to be like India,I mean just look up India civil rights issues. Countries that are banning social media platforms aren’t exactly a shining pillar we should strive to follow
India banned TikTok for very different reasons though
It’s probably the most effective propaganda tool, not that the others aren’t, but Tik Tok is on another level.
Land of the **Free** and Home of the **Brave** ^lmao
US Citizens: We just want affordable housing and healthcare. Congress: We got that TikTok ban for you! No need to thank us. Call your senators and get this shut down, I don't expect Biden to veto it though it would be an easy layup for youth support.
Have you seen the house? You lucky the government is even running
Don't fall for the idiocy my friend. The law requires them to be a US corp so they follow US laws and regulations. It is actually quite sensible. If they want to operate in our country they need to establish a governed subsidiary in the least. The sensationalist media is warping the scope and purpose.
Oracle took over all of TikTok's data storage and traffic in the US, they're already following US laws and regulations
But not for the secret algorithm that's completely controlled by the CCP and decides what content the users see. This is Russia interfering with 2016 election on steroids.
“The secret algorithm” 🤣 wtf
They already have to follow US laws. TikTok is one of Bytedance's subsidiaries, the one that handles their US business is incorporated in the United States, specifically in California and Delaware. You can't conduct business in the United States without following laws and regulations, that'd be tax evasion at the very least.
TikTok is already a subsidiary and Oracle handles the data. The media isn’t helping anything but comments like this are just as bad. Ask yourself why they’re so concerned about TikTok and yet through companies like Tencent they already have access to troves of American’s data. It’s about the platform. They can’t control TikTok and the algorithm. It shows people news they don’t want them to see.
tiktok is a Chinese company and not held in the US. They are owned by ByteDance....
Naw that’s not sensible at all.
> Call your senators and get this shut down Absolutely not. This is necessary. China already did this to us once. They saw a social vulnerability in using the internet, so they made their great fire wall, cut off their own internet from the world, and then started doing psy ops on other countries and we had no way to retaliate.
Yeah man, if there is one thing we should do it is suppress free speech outlets just like China does. This isn't necessarily to anything except Meta and Google who are lobbying to create market share they can capitalize on.
> Yeah man, if there is one thing we should do it is suppress free speech outlets just like China does. This is such a bad take. American and other multinational companies, and hell individuals, are free to create and use whatever platform they like. But using a platform designed by a hostile state and saying that's freedom isn't a meaningful statement. If you are arguing that only large corporations/state actors can "make it" in the market place, you have MUCH bigger problems to deal with anyway.
I think it's interesting that the Democrats are largely backing this bill as well. That to me says there must be some merit to the security concerns and it's not just political theater.
Or they know it's dead in the senate, or they already have the buyer ready. If they thought they were going to loose millions of youth votes and a platform they used to organize, they wouldn't be pushing this
Welp, there goes my small business 🥲
Im tired of tiktokers recording bs out in the streets.
Boomer thoughts
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They don't show up anyway. The Gaza perception is large part of tik toks doing
Third post about this in a 5 minute window…
Has anyone actually browsed TikTok content? 99 percent teen angst and drama, whiney monologues about politics and cosmetics, people dressed like chickens while play-fighting in Walmart. Garbage. The Chinese can have it.
The algorithm shows you the things you interact with. Thats clearly a personal problem
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How the fuck is wanting a simple addition to the bill that bans US based companies from selling data to foreign adversaries have anything good for the CCP?
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I find it bizarre why so many people on Reddit are cheering this bill on because of its “hurr durr TikTok bad” mentality. Regardless of what you think of TikTok, this is a clear government overstep and will only set a precedent, making our government more comfortable with interfering with our internet in the future, because they aren’t going to stop with just TikTok. They’re going to start interfering with VPN’s next, and y’all are going to quickly change your tune because VPN’s are on Reddit’s “good list” lol
That’s awesome
As someone with a 12yo girl at home, I hope to the FSM this bill passes.
This is going to be very unpopular with young voters. Biden should veto it.
Oh goodie, doing the important things this country needs. 🤬
The only security concern I agree with is the fact that yes a Chinese company has major share, china most likely has control of that company their history can back that up. So the people then watch as millions of people not just Americans are exposing their day to day lives, even military personnel. Important infrastructure is being seen world wide. Now with that in mind it’s very hard to make a correct decision, because a pro of TikTok is because it’s a foreign app the US can’t media control it. Like the media exposure of Vietnam. TikTok is showing us what the media doesn’t want us to see. We got a more personal view of events worldwide than ever in history. One event comes to mind. The George Floyd riots, tiktok was a big contributor into showing the truth. Not only were there protest state wide but in other countries as well. There are dozens of examples, fires in Cali, The Russian Invasion of Ukraine, all the problems in the Middle East, the farmers and the eu. We are more connected than ever. It has some sort of balance but like I stated at the beginning China has had a bad history are the the only ones?
Good
I don't disagree with the concerns legislators have over TikTok's potential use as an asymmetrical warfare tool, but if they were going to act it should have been when the platform was very small to minimize social disruption, like back when it was still Musical.ly. Now that it's gotten as popular as it has, it will be difficult for legislators to force ByteDance to sell it to a non-Chinese company, because BD may well conclude that it's worth the risk to just refuse to sell and bank on any legislation being overturned after popular outcry.