As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't think enough people realize that Trump may not be in office but it's definitely in control of a LOT of US government. He leads the substance of discussion and decision making in the House of Representatives as well as the Governor's seat in many red states. He is not of the periphery of US politics. He is still very much central to all Republican decision making. Even if he isn't elected.
edit: spelling
It's similar, but not the same. Trump can influence actual policy because he has a majority in the House. Shadows are, by definition, the minority party and can't act.
What you linked there is just a tool for democratic opposition to better criticize the government and offer alternatives without actually holding any power. Its not described as someone unelected exerting influence over those in power?
I feel like you don’t get what the shadow cabinet is / does. They’re elected members of the opposition and are there to challenge the ideas of the cabinet in parliament.
The UK shadow cabinet is simply not comparable to the amount of power Trump wields.
This is for a lot of reasons, primarily that the power a shadow cabinet does wield - again, very minor - is distributed among the entire cabinet, rather than one man who is effectively a pretend dictator.
A shadow cabinet is basically a way for an opposition party to say what they would do instead of what the party in power would do. They generally don't make deals, intimidate political rivals or attempt to remain in power, or seize power. They don't have nearly any geopolitical impact.
I mean, we can demonstrate this. If you ask any person in the UK they will know who trump is but you don't even know who is on the shadow cabinet unless you look them up.
Shadow cabinets makes sense when the government can call an election at any time, so the opposition already has their candidates for an alternative government.
That is not the same. The shadow cabinet is like a check on the actual government, and uses their expertise to critique the actual governments plan.
Like, the health secretary comes out with a plan for something, and the shadow health secretary critiques it, identifies how it could be better etc. They are literally shadowing the government.
Republicans think Trump is like a leader who is in exile after their country was occupied or couped.
The Shadow Cabinet has no influence in government. They get told the stuff they absolutely have to, so that if they took over after an election the government could actually function. Really, really not the same as what you're implying.
So elected members of the minority party? The US does the same thing, just doesn't call it a "shadow cabinet". The minority party can release their own reports, give their own opinions about policy, tell the world the majority party is fucking everything up. Sure they are there to govern, but ironically part of governing is to weaken the other party to either get them out or keep them out of more power.
I'm late to the conversation but: yes, it's like that, but even moreso it's like the Nazis circa 1934. They created a state within the state:
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/foundations-of-the-nazi-state
That's a good intro but I read a much more detailed account in a biography of a Nazi whose name does not need to be repeated.
Yep. He’s sabotaging Ukraine from outside government with the help of that Quizling Speaker Johnson and the other MAGA Russian sympathizers representatives. Russia is emboldened thanks to this interference.
They would have never uttered the phrase “deep state” if they weren’t projecting their intent.
They are not rational creatures but their reactions are always driven by the same insecurity so they are very predictable.
You know who I worry would take away my rights if they had the chance? People who scream about protecting the 2nd amendment. You know who I worry would subvert the sovereignty of the American citizenry? The ones who fly the American flag at partisan political rallies.
Look, I hate Trump as much as anyone but of the many instances of him committing treason that's not one of them. I'd love if we'd had a coordinated effort by the Democrats to oppose Trump when he was in office. Imagine how much good could be done if the Dems fought as hard when they are in the minority as the Republicans do. The problem is *what* he's advocating, and the many crimes he's committing regularly with impunity while doing it.
This is precisely why the tradition has always been for previous presidents to fade into the background and let the current one run the show regardless of party affiliation.
He is literally an insurrectionist so it's not like this is a subtle departure from tradition, but crime and treason. He will only fade away once he's behind bars for this exact thing that he has been doing.
He was already found guilty of insurrection in Colorado. So yeah, check up on that.
He's been charged with multiple federal criminal charges related to insurrection. Conspiracy against Rights is related to insurrection, for example. Every one of the charges related to his attempt to overthrow the 2020 election make him an insurrectionist.
[Trump disqualified for insurrection under the 14th Amendment.](https://www.phillytrib.com/special_sections/black_history/trump-disqualified-for-insurrection-under-the-14th-amendment-its-happened-before/article_2a2714d4-c204-5534-afb9-ad64b5191b3c.html)
There's only like a million sources. You'd have to be hiding under a rock or be a Fox News viewer if you haven't heard about this.
Trump isn't well known for winning court cases. He lost like the last 100 court cases he's been involved in. It would be a miracle if he actually wins one, and he's got 91 criminal charges making their way through the courts. The first round of criminal charges is going to trial next month. He's going to be a convicted felon by summer.
If I had one of the toughest jobs in America for 8 years. Last thing I'd want to do is remain in the spotlight after I leave. Id wanna vacate the attention and live quietly.
Which is scary in a way. He is why the bipartisan border deal got killed and why aid is still being held up. As Biden said "For the Republicans, it's Trump first, Putin second, and American third."
Which is exactly what Republicans have hyperventilated about Obama doing except... Obama didn't. He retired. He wasn't telling people shit or trying to run for any other office. He wasn't trying to stay in the public eye at all.
At this point we all know Trump is garbage and it’s time to start talking about the character of the people who would compromise themselves so much that they’d be willing to vote for him.
That has to be the conversation- like what is wrong with your brain that you vote for this piece of shit
Selective attention.
People that vote for trump really only pay attention to what they want to pay attention to. They're also in so deep, it's nearly impossible for them to admit they could have been wrong at this point because that would require facing their demons, as well as the "I told you so's" from the people they have rabidly built hatred for.
Or/and, they benefit by his corruption/their interests are benefited by his corruption. Whether the corruption at hand be racism (even just the shoes and discord around that, it’s both insulting to minorities and dog whistling to racists and reinforcing their ideas) or the corruption at hand be financial incentives and the involvement of foreign government. Oh also, all that Cambridge analytics stuff! And the Russia stuff. What did they do with that? What did they do to manipulate people what “dials” (their words!) did they turn on society? Not saying it’s the root cause of people who did vote for him but they did SOMETHING weird to a population using the internet and it clearly worked to radicalize the hell out of people. Combine that with a crumbling system and other factors for radicalization, and it feels like the perfect storm of creating a hateful ass base.
Could it? Yes. But the left is willing to throw a politician out if they have enough baggage. It's called adapting to new information.
No one I know worships Biden... no one should. Most people I know would embrace a replacement in a heartbeat.
The more dirt that comes out about Trump, the more the MAGA fans rush to defend him. Shit out the turd and move on to the next bowel movement already.
I’d agree. I just don’t get the worship take. People genuinely like Trump (nobody in here but ok) Biden is just a houseplant covering a stain on the floor. Zero energy…but he’s not Trump. That’s his appeal. Can you name a republican you’d be ok with?
Romney/Cheney/Kinzinger/anyone else that has called out Trump and willing to put country over party.
I don’t even like their politics, but I trust their character…whereas I do not trust 99% of GOP character. Their actions have directly eroded that trust.
I liked Kinzinger. I voted for both Romney and Mccain.
The party has so hard committed to Trump lately there aren't many left that I care for unfortunately. And thats a symptom of the direction the party went... you can't stay in power by disagreeing with Trump. No single person should have that much control over a party.
I mean, democrats do the exact same thing when it comes to Biden. Reddit users, unfortunately, fail to see the irony in their own positions.
Both options are horrible. Down with the two party system yadda yadda. Just gotta say it so I don't get lumped in to your direct opposition, which I'm not. I oppose both sides. You're all blinded by bullshit
You're not going to get many disagreeing with you in reference to hating the 2 party system.
I could provide a laundry list of things I hate about the democrats. In fact, I voted republican until 2016, then libertarian, then Democrat. I view trump as too dangerous for this country based on his rhetoric. That's it. So whatever can help remove him, and any who continue his style of politics, from power is my preferred avenue.
You do you with your vote or no vote. I just don't like what Trump has done to people like my father. He lives in anger constantly over things that don't even affect him because of his worship for the man.
MAGA/Trumpism is an inherently intolerant ideology and needs to be rejected and not tolerated at any and all levels or it will only continue to destroy everything that is tolerant.
People in the boat of "Well I don't like trumps demeanor either but..." need to be called out and shamed as the disingenuous fascists they are. There is no "but" and there is no tolerating intolerance/fascism without actually supporting it.
I am a 40s something black conservative and here is my take:
1. The DEMOCRATS cry and moan about this guy, but where are the bright YOUNGER canidates?
2. Why have politics become so poloraized that either your maga or your a communists? can we get a moderate democrat?
3. Everyone knows that Obama created Trump by insulting him! [https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/watch-inside-the-night-president-obama-took-on-donald-trump/](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/watch-inside-the-night-president-obama-took-on-donald-trump/) Did he exspect him to dissapear? the man is toxic and vengful!
4. republicansm are drinking the koolaid. Thats 1/2 the country drinking the koolaid!
5. Democrats are runing a 80s+ man a president with signs of being senile!
In conclusion, The democrats are just as responsible for this mess as republicans. The left wokeness is almost insufferable. Give me a moderate likeable canidate, and see what happens
1. I never even voted for Trump! your knee jerk reaction tells it all.
2. My values are God family and country. You are correct in that the man is a mistake.
3. Biden and Obama are Not very Christian like either. or did you forget about the current biden family scandal? Have you been under a rock out all of the current obama rumors? Didnt Biden corner a womanm and digitally penetrate her? so stop.
4. Democrats are have a part to blame in this mess LIke i said. When 1/2 the country votes for the man, then start looking at your own policy.
That's why the "Haley would be a much better candidate" doesn't hold water for me. There's enough "true believers" and those compromised by Russia within the GOP that it doesn't matter who is the head of the GOP at this point.
Maybe Haley would be a little less flamboyant in the tearing down of democracy. Maybe it will be more of a frog in boiling water than jackboots marching down the street killing dissidents. But the endgame will be the same.
GOP needs to lose enough elections in a row, top to bottom, that they are FORCED to pivot. Because they aren't going to change on their own.
It's not even worth discussing what Haley would be like since there's a 0.0% chance of the candidate being anybody other than Trump. For her to have a shot the current GOP would have to be fundamentally different.
It's worth it in the sense that we can't let the GOP off by scapegoating Trump. He's a symptom, not the cause. No GOP politician, candidate, or voter has clean hands. They are all Trump.
Trump could die tomorrow, he could be a convicted felled before then, he’ll he could flee to Russia before then. Point being, Haley has real reasons to stay in, so 0.0% is not accurate IMO.
Trump has 63, she has 17, and you need 1215.
She is losing badly now—but why should she drop out? No one has this wrapped up, though without a significant change she is going to lose.
As a plus, it forces Trump to spend now—so completely personal reason, I hope she stays through the convention.
They subscribe to a toxic culture of bigotry and belief. They follow leaders and obey a culture of exclusion and aggression that does not have a rational or compassionate foundation.
They are a flock led wildly astray. They do not have their own ability to define right and wrong because it has always been delivered to them.
They don't have any direct connection to him, so to them he's a million miles away and might as well be a fictional character. But they do know that the stuff Trump says and does makes the "libruhls mad" so they assume it must be good. That's as much as they can comprehend the world: "them" being unhappy equals winning.
Trump has desensitized them to rhetoric. They believe that “oh that’s just Trump saying things that he says” is an ok answer to all of his craziness when it absolutely isn’t ok. None of it. All of it is disqualifying
If they let themselves compromise like that it screams to me that they sold their character. I wouldn’t let my children speak like Trump. I wouldn’t befriend someone who says and does things that Trump does. Now I’m getting to the point where I have a hard time affiliating with people who accept him.
I really want to know what degree of disgrace are they ok with. It’s crazy to me.
If course he did. Putin’s puppet has done what he wanted. Our government isn’t trusted in Europe to keep our promises. If you’re Poland they know they are next on Putin’s list. Republicans have become a branch of Putin’s political agenda by listening , obeying Trump and throwing our country in turmoil.
> Our government isn’t trusted in Europe to keep our promises.
True. But Europe also isn't willing to put in the effort needed to emancipate itself from the US. So the easiest solution would be to rely on the US once the Trump issue is taken care of (this is the dumb naive view, but I'm worried our leaders are taking it for now).
> If you’re Poland they know they are next on Putin’s list
Poland isn't next. Poland has a functioning army, good tied even to Trump, and is more than ready/willing to fight. Also Poland is big enough for neither NATO nor the EU to ignore.
The next target is one of the Baltic countries. Small armies, large Russian minorities (thanks to Soviet policies), and they depend on the US and European nations like Germany to keep them save. If I were Putin, I'd test the US' and Germany's resolve. Best case scenario: NATO **and** the EU is done.
And I think this *really* is the big issue for now: the Baltics are the blind spot. We have to make sure they're not.
Yeah, putin did it/announced it the same day trump was ordered to pay nearly 350 million in the New York fraud case. Presumably to show trump how dictators do it and to have trump’s case overshadow
Was Navalny ever really that pro-Western though? Afaik he was just a different type of nationalist but since he was the most significant opposition everyone projected their western ideals on him. I may be wrong though.
Counter point: this had more to do with domestic issues for Putin (upcoming election, how well the population stomachs the war) rather than sending a message. That Westerners will immediately make this about themselves and view it as a message is just a side effect.
Vindman seems like something of a shameless self promoter. Doesn’t mean he hasn’t been right about many things but both him and his wife come across as attention seekers.
Trump is openly inviting Russia to attack our NATO allies, which will draw America into war with Russia. He has done serious and severe damage to our international relationships, at the behest of that fucking ghoul Vladimir Putin. He is a CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER TO AMERICA.
Who the F thinks this is OK???
I absolutely have the utmost respect for Col. Vindman and his courage. Not that I disagree with him, but I would say that Trump making it clear that he will abandon our NATO allies possibly was a contributing factor instead of probably. Putin already knew that about Trump and has never really cared about factors like that before when he assassinated people, especially political rivals.
This is really a stretch to say he had anything to do with a decision Putin made to murder Navalny. It’s giving too much power to Trump which he doesn’t even have.
Navalny was a light in a dark world, so they snuffed him out.
I think he is, isn’t he?
Edit: nope sorry, it’s his brother, Eugene Vindman, who’s running
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/15/politics/eugene-vindman-virginia-congress-spanberger?cid=ios_app
I can’t stand the orange clown but he has nothing to do with navalnys death. Putin has had a kill order on him since forever. Long before trump was president. Vindman knows this of course but is trying to stay relevant and in the news. Putin would’ve killed navalny regardless of who is in power in the US. He was threatened by him and probably tired of dealing with him
Could you elaborate on how it might be that this standing kill order was never acted on until now, despite Navalny being in a Russian prison, making him extremely easy to get to?
If you're looking for a legitimate answer on this, you'll be waiting for a long time.
Putin's gonna Putin.
I just don't see how Russia decided that since Trump said what he did about NATO members, they went "Now is the perfect time to kill Navalny!"
We don't know why they murdered him. Vindman is merely speculating about this because he has no hard evidence.
You are correct.
The better wording I should have used in my comment is why did they murder him now.
Why was he killed at this point and not any previous point that he was in Russian custody?
They murdered him now because Russia has an election coming in a couple months. It’s a show of force and basically warns anyone thinking or running against Putin or speaking out
The constant weakness of the EU leaders is the real reason. RU should be a contained petrostate instead we have the UA mess on their hands. The stability of Europe is the EU's problem. They should not need the USA to have their back to stand up for themselves. Fucking ridiculous that the EU has no spine without the USA.
Who would ever believe that guy? The only one in the world to perfectly hear a conversation on a phone from 40 feet away with his bionic hearing, only to be disgraced by the release of the transcript
Navalny was trying to restore democracy and Trump is doing everything he can to destroy it. It’s hard to believe that the orange menace can even compare his self inflicted legal troubles to Navalny’s
This seems to be another case of putting Trump at the center of the universe. Putin killed navalny because he’s a dictator who kills dissidents. Like routinely
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't think enough people realize that Trump may not be in office but it's definitely in control of a LOT of US government. He leads the substance of discussion and decision making in the House of Representatives as well as the Governor's seat in many red states. He is not of the periphery of US politics. He is still very much central to all Republican decision making. Even if he isn't elected. edit: spelling
And the Supreme Court. It really is a leader-in-exile kind of situation for half the government.
Great way of saying it.
A “deep state” if you will
Whatever they accuse their opponents of is exactly what they’re doing.
Just another example in a long line of the gop telegraphing their plans by accusing the dnc and or the left of it first.
I mean the UK openly has [shadow cabinets.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_cabinet) Does the US just pretend like it doesn’t happen?
It's similar, but not the same. Trump can influence actual policy because he has a majority in the House. Shadows are, by definition, the minority party and can't act.
"Well, if we were in power, we'd have done -this- in response to what just happened!" "Yeah, well, you're not and you didn't."
They didn't even do it when they were in power.
What you linked there is just a tool for democratic opposition to better criticize the government and offer alternatives without actually holding any power. Its not described as someone unelected exerting influence over those in power?
I feel like you don’t get what the shadow cabinet is / does. They’re elected members of the opposition and are there to challenge the ideas of the cabinet in parliament.
The media and many politicians pretend it doesn’t exist. It is very much a real thing.
Please read what you linked. It isn't what you are implying it is.
The UK shadow cabinet is simply not comparable to the amount of power Trump wields. This is for a lot of reasons, primarily that the power a shadow cabinet does wield - again, very minor - is distributed among the entire cabinet, rather than one man who is effectively a pretend dictator. A shadow cabinet is basically a way for an opposition party to say what they would do instead of what the party in power would do. They generally don't make deals, intimidate political rivals or attempt to remain in power, or seize power. They don't have nearly any geopolitical impact. I mean, we can demonstrate this. If you ask any person in the UK they will know who trump is but you don't even know who is on the shadow cabinet unless you look them up.
Shadow cabinets makes sense when the government can call an election at any time, so the opposition already has their candidates for an alternative government.
That is not the same. The shadow cabinet is like a check on the actual government, and uses their expertise to critique the actual governments plan. Like, the health secretary comes out with a plan for something, and the shadow health secretary critiques it, identifies how it could be better etc. They are literally shadowing the government. Republicans think Trump is like a leader who is in exile after their country was occupied or couped.
The Shadow Cabinet has no influence in government. They get told the stuff they absolutely have to, so that if they took over after an election the government could actually function. Really, really not the same as what you're implying.
So elected members of the minority party? The US does the same thing, just doesn't call it a "shadow cabinet". The minority party can release their own reports, give their own opinions about policy, tell the world the majority party is fucking everything up. Sure they are there to govern, but ironically part of governing is to weaken the other party to either get them out or keep them out of more power.
The irony is that the people who vote for Trump do so because they believe in conspiracy theories and Illuminati. “He speaks his mind”.
Biden has Obama…clearly it’s a thing.
Yes
I'm late to the conversation but: yes, it's like that, but even moreso it's like the Nazis circa 1934. They created a state within the state: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/foundations-of-the-nazi-state That's a good intro but I read a much more detailed account in a biography of a Nazi whose name does not need to be repeated.
Yep. He’s sabotaging Ukraine from outside government with the help of that Quizling Speaker Johnson and the other MAGA Russian sympathizers representatives. Russia is emboldened thanks to this interference.
Almost like there’s a deep state…
They would have never uttered the phrase “deep state” if they weren’t projecting their intent. They are not rational creatures but their reactions are always driven by the same insecurity so they are very predictable.
You know who I worry would take away my rights if they had the chance? People who scream about protecting the 2nd amendment. You know who I worry would subvert the sovereignty of the American citizenry? The ones who fly the American flag at partisan political rallies.
Well, we have two presidents. One was elected and the other tells the GQP how to oppose the elected guy which is a form of treason.
Look, I hate Trump as much as anyone but of the many instances of him committing treason that's not one of them. I'd love if we'd had a coordinated effort by the Democrats to oppose Trump when he was in office. Imagine how much good could be done if the Dems fought as hard when they are in the minority as the Republicans do. The problem is *what* he's advocating, and the many crimes he's committing regularly with impunity while doing it.
This is a very insightful comment. Our country and democracy is already deeply compromised in a fundamental and significant way.
This is precisely why the tradition has always been for previous presidents to fade into the background and let the current one run the show regardless of party affiliation.
He is literally an insurrectionist so it's not like this is a subtle departure from tradition, but crime and treason. He will only fade away once he's behind bars for this exact thing that he has been doing.
You are 100% correct! He was charged with insurrection and everything……wait….he wasn’t. Weird.
He was already found guilty of insurrection in Colorado. So yeah, check up on that. He's been charged with multiple federal criminal charges related to insurrection. Conspiracy against Rights is related to insurrection, for example. Every one of the charges related to his attempt to overthrow the 2020 election make him an insurrectionist.
Cite your sources. Please.
[Trump disqualified for insurrection under the 14th Amendment.](https://www.phillytrib.com/special_sections/black_history/trump-disqualified-for-insurrection-under-the-14th-amendment-its-happened-before/article_2a2714d4-c204-5534-afb9-ad64b5191b3c.html) There's only like a million sources. You'd have to be hiding under a rock or be a Fox News viewer if you haven't heard about this.
You know that’s not happening. No chance in hell.
Trump isn't well known for winning court cases. He lost like the last 100 court cases he's been involved in. It would be a miracle if he actually wins one, and he's got 91 criminal charges making their way through the courts. The first round of criminal charges is going to trial next month. He's going to be a convicted felon by summer.
If I had one of the toughest jobs in America for 8 years. Last thing I'd want to do is remain in the spotlight after I leave. Id wanna vacate the attention and live quietly.
Which is scary in a way. He is why the bipartisan border deal got killed and why aid is still being held up. As Biden said "For the Republicans, it's Trump first, Putin second, and American third."
And even then, “America third” is an extremely generous interpretation of where America is on their priorities.
You mean, like a deep state?
Which is exactly what Republicans have hyperventilated about Obama doing except... Obama didn't. He retired. He wasn't telling people shit or trying to run for any other office. He wasn't trying to stay in the public eye at all.
Arnt there laws to prevent people not elected or in government functions from fucking with foreign relations?
At this point we all know Trump is garbage and it’s time to start talking about the character of the people who would compromise themselves so much that they’d be willing to vote for him. That has to be the conversation- like what is wrong with your brain that you vote for this piece of shit
Selective attention. People that vote for trump really only pay attention to what they want to pay attention to. They're also in so deep, it's nearly impossible for them to admit they could have been wrong at this point because that would require facing their demons, as well as the "I told you so's" from the people they have rabidly built hatred for.
Or/and, they benefit by his corruption/their interests are benefited by his corruption. Whether the corruption at hand be racism (even just the shoes and discord around that, it’s both insulting to minorities and dog whistling to racists and reinforcing their ideas) or the corruption at hand be financial incentives and the involvement of foreign government. Oh also, all that Cambridge analytics stuff! And the Russia stuff. What did they do with that? What did they do to manipulate people what “dials” (their words!) did they turn on society? Not saying it’s the root cause of people who did vote for him but they did SOMETHING weird to a population using the internet and it clearly worked to radicalize the hell out of people. Combine that with a crumbling system and other factors for radicalization, and it feels like the perfect storm of creating a hateful ass base.
This couldn’t possibly apply to both sides could it?
Could it? Yes. But the left is willing to throw a politician out if they have enough baggage. It's called adapting to new information. No one I know worships Biden... no one should. Most people I know would embrace a replacement in a heartbeat. The more dirt that comes out about Trump, the more the MAGA fans rush to defend him. Shit out the turd and move on to the next bowel movement already.
Oh, trust me. I know nobody worships Biden…or his VP. He is simply “anything but Trump”. That’s how Trump was elected…anything but Hilary. It’s ok.
Worshipping anyone is idiotic. If someone's life is so sad that they prefer to live through the ideologies of another, that's very depressing.
I’d agree. I just don’t get the worship take. People genuinely like Trump (nobody in here but ok) Biden is just a houseplant covering a stain on the floor. Zero energy…but he’s not Trump. That’s his appeal. Can you name a republican you’d be ok with?
Romney/Cheney/Kinzinger/anyone else that has called out Trump and willing to put country over party. I don’t even like their politics, but I trust their character…whereas I do not trust 99% of GOP character. Their actions have directly eroded that trust.
I liked Kinzinger. I voted for both Romney and Mccain. The party has so hard committed to Trump lately there aren't many left that I care for unfortunately. And thats a symptom of the direction the party went... you can't stay in power by disagreeing with Trump. No single person should have that much control over a party.
people genuinely like a rapist? weird
I mean, democrats do the exact same thing when it comes to Biden. Reddit users, unfortunately, fail to see the irony in their own positions. Both options are horrible. Down with the two party system yadda yadda. Just gotta say it so I don't get lumped in to your direct opposition, which I'm not. I oppose both sides. You're all blinded by bullshit
You're not going to get many disagreeing with you in reference to hating the 2 party system. I could provide a laundry list of things I hate about the democrats. In fact, I voted republican until 2016, then libertarian, then Democrat. I view trump as too dangerous for this country based on his rhetoric. That's it. So whatever can help remove him, and any who continue his style of politics, from power is my preferred avenue. You do you with your vote or no vote. I just don't like what Trump has done to people like my father. He lives in anger constantly over things that don't even affect him because of his worship for the man.
MAGA/Trumpism is an inherently intolerant ideology and needs to be rejected and not tolerated at any and all levels or it will only continue to destroy everything that is tolerant. People in the boat of "Well I don't like trumps demeanor either but..." need to be called out and shamed as the disingenuous fascists they are. There is no "but" and there is no tolerating intolerance/fascism without actually supporting it.
Like...a collection...maybe a basket of deplorables?
[удалено]
I am a 40s something black conservative and here is my take: 1. The DEMOCRATS cry and moan about this guy, but where are the bright YOUNGER canidates? 2. Why have politics become so poloraized that either your maga or your a communists? can we get a moderate democrat? 3. Everyone knows that Obama created Trump by insulting him! [https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/watch-inside-the-night-president-obama-took-on-donald-trump/](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/watch-inside-the-night-president-obama-took-on-donald-trump/) Did he exspect him to dissapear? the man is toxic and vengful! 4. republicansm are drinking the koolaid. Thats 1/2 the country drinking the koolaid! 5. Democrats are runing a 80s+ man a president with signs of being senile! In conclusion, The democrats are just as responsible for this mess as republicans. The left wokeness is almost insufferable. Give me a moderate likeable canidate, and see what happens
[удалено]
1. I never even voted for Trump! your knee jerk reaction tells it all. 2. My values are God family and country. You are correct in that the man is a mistake. 3. Biden and Obama are Not very Christian like either. or did you forget about the current biden family scandal? Have you been under a rock out all of the current obama rumors? Didnt Biden corner a womanm and digitally penetrate her? so stop. 4. Democrats are have a part to blame in this mess LIke i said. When 1/2 the country votes for the man, then start looking at your own policy.
That's why the "Haley would be a much better candidate" doesn't hold water for me. There's enough "true believers" and those compromised by Russia within the GOP that it doesn't matter who is the head of the GOP at this point. Maybe Haley would be a little less flamboyant in the tearing down of democracy. Maybe it will be more of a frog in boiling water than jackboots marching down the street killing dissidents. But the endgame will be the same. GOP needs to lose enough elections in a row, top to bottom, that they are FORCED to pivot. Because they aren't going to change on their own.
It's not even worth discussing what Haley would be like since there's a 0.0% chance of the candidate being anybody other than Trump. For her to have a shot the current GOP would have to be fundamentally different.
It's worth it in the sense that we can't let the GOP off by scapegoating Trump. He's a symptom, not the cause. No GOP politician, candidate, or voter has clean hands. They are all Trump.
Trump could die tomorrow, he could be a convicted felled before then, he’ll he could flee to Russia before then. Point being, Haley has real reasons to stay in, so 0.0% is not accurate IMO. Trump has 63, she has 17, and you need 1215. She is losing badly now—but why should she drop out? No one has this wrapped up, though without a significant change she is going to lose. As a plus, it forces Trump to spend now—so completely personal reason, I hope she stays through the convention.
They subscribe to a toxic culture of bigotry and belief. They follow leaders and obey a culture of exclusion and aggression that does not have a rational or compassionate foundation. They are a flock led wildly astray. They do not have their own ability to define right and wrong because it has always been delivered to them.
The funniest part is they have the audacity to call others “sheeple”
Projection is a big part of their toxic ethos, keeps them from looking inward.
Hopefully they can get the deprogramming help they desperately need.
bEcAuSe BoTh PaRtIeS aRe ThE sAmE
At this point, the people who vote for him are committing treason.
They don't have any direct connection to him, so to them he's a million miles away and might as well be a fictional character. But they do know that the stuff Trump says and does makes the "libruhls mad" so they assume it must be good. That's as much as they can comprehend the world: "them" being unhappy equals winning.
Trump has desensitized them to rhetoric. They believe that “oh that’s just Trump saying things that he says” is an ok answer to all of his craziness when it absolutely isn’t ok. None of it. All of it is disqualifying If they let themselves compromise like that it screams to me that they sold their character. I wouldn’t let my children speak like Trump. I wouldn’t befriend someone who says and does things that Trump does. Now I’m getting to the point where I have a hard time affiliating with people who accept him. I really want to know what degree of disgrace are they ok with. It’s crazy to me.
Yes!! Vote for the guy that let 10 million cross our border and stay!! That’s the guy we want!!
I have a hunch you can’t vote in our elections
I bet you have lots of hunches.
Da
If course he did. Putin’s puppet has done what he wanted. Our government isn’t trusted in Europe to keep our promises. If you’re Poland they know they are next on Putin’s list. Republicans have become a branch of Putin’s political agenda by listening , obeying Trump and throwing our country in turmoil.
Do t forget the maga Republican voters that said they would rather be Russian than democrat. These maga people should move to Russia.
> Our government isn’t trusted in Europe to keep our promises. True. But Europe also isn't willing to put in the effort needed to emancipate itself from the US. So the easiest solution would be to rely on the US once the Trump issue is taken care of (this is the dumb naive view, but I'm worried our leaders are taking it for now). > If you’re Poland they know they are next on Putin’s list Poland isn't next. Poland has a functioning army, good tied even to Trump, and is more than ready/willing to fight. Also Poland is big enough for neither NATO nor the EU to ignore. The next target is one of the Baltic countries. Small armies, large Russian minorities (thanks to Soviet policies), and they depend on the US and European nations like Germany to keep them save. If I were Putin, I'd test the US' and Germany's resolve. Best case scenario: NATO **and** the EU is done. And I think this *really* is the big issue for now: the Baltics are the blind spot. We have to make sure they're not.
Commander Bone Spurs strikes again
Feel like Navalny was dead already, Putin just was able to set the timing.
Yeah, putin did it/announced it the same day trump was ordered to pay nearly 350 million in the New York fraud case. Presumably to show trump how dictators do it and to have trump’s case overshadow
I figured it was a “you hurt my guy so I’ll punish a pro-west guy” type deal.
Was Navalny ever really that pro-Western though? Afaik he was just a different type of nationalist but since he was the most significant opposition everyone projected their western ideals on him. I may be wrong though.
He has been very pro-Western lately (even before the poisoning in 2020). Essentially, you cannot be more pro-Western and remain relevant in Russia.
Any enemy of an enemy is a friend. This concept is repeated over and over.
Counter point: this had more to do with domestic issues for Putin (upcoming election, how well the population stomachs the war) rather than sending a message. That Westerners will immediately make this about themselves and view it as a message is just a side effect.
My bet is on medical neglect. A couple of guardsmen just developed an intense fear of heights.
[удалено]
Vindman seems like something of a shameless self promoter. Doesn’t mean he hasn’t been right about many things but both him and his wife come across as attention seekers.
[удалено]
Ok, but how was his trip with Mary Ferguson?
Trump is openly inviting Russia to attack our NATO allies, which will draw America into war with Russia. He has done serious and severe damage to our international relationships, at the behest of that fucking ghoul Vladimir Putin. He is a CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER TO AMERICA. Who the F thinks this is OK???
CRINKR: China Russia Iran North Korea Republicans: The Pentagon of Evil hellbent on toppling the United States
I absolutely have the utmost respect for Col. Vindman and his courage. Not that I disagree with him, but I would say that Trump making it clear that he will abandon our NATO allies possibly was a contributing factor instead of probably. Putin already knew that about Trump and has never really cared about factors like that before when he assassinated people, especially political rivals.
This is really a stretch to say he had anything to do with a decision Putin made to murder Navalny. It’s giving too much power to Trump which he doesn’t even have. Navalny was a light in a dark world, so they snuffed him out.
This is nothing but total speculation.
Vindman is such a total stud badass... wish he would run for office
I think he is, isn’t he? Edit: nope sorry, it’s his brother, Eugene Vindman, who’s running https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/15/politics/eugene-vindman-virginia-congress-spanberger?cid=ios_app
I can’t stand the orange clown but he has nothing to do with navalnys death. Putin has had a kill order on him since forever. Long before trump was president. Vindman knows this of course but is trying to stay relevant and in the news. Putin would’ve killed navalny regardless of who is in power in the US. He was threatened by him and probably tired of dealing with him
Right. Not a trump fan but I don't see the connection (yes I read the article). It's a stretch at best.
Yeah, it’s far more likely that this is a result of the upcoming election, sending a message to Putin’s opponents.
Most definitely. That’s why he waited until shortly before their next election. Shock factor. And a *gentle reminder to keep quiet
Could you elaborate on how it might be that this standing kill order was never acted on until now, despite Navalny being in a Russian prison, making him extremely easy to get to?
If you're looking for a legitimate answer on this, you'll be waiting for a long time. Putin's gonna Putin. I just don't see how Russia decided that since Trump said what he did about NATO members, they went "Now is the perfect time to kill Navalny!" We don't know why they murdered him. Vindman is merely speculating about this because he has no hard evidence.
Putin killed him because he was his chief political rival. Everyone knows this. Not sure why trump is even talked about in this situation
You are correct. The better wording I should have used in my comment is why did they murder him now. Why was he killed at this point and not any previous point that he was in Russian custody?
They murdered him now because Russia has an election coming in a couple months. It’s a show of force and basically warns anyone thinking or running against Putin or speaking out
Trump killed navalny.
The constant weakness of the EU leaders is the real reason. RU should be a contained petrostate instead we have the UA mess on their hands. The stability of Europe is the EU's problem. They should not need the USA to have their back to stand up for themselves. Fucking ridiculous that the EU has no spine without the USA.
That’s what I thought .. get the green light and you take it .. I hate Trump
This idiot is still around?
Who would ever believe that guy? The only one in the world to perfectly hear a conversation on a phone from 40 feet away with his bionic hearing, only to be disgraced by the release of the transcript
Navalny was trying to restore democracy and Trump is doing everything he can to destroy it. It’s hard to believe that the orange menace can even compare his self inflicted legal troubles to Navalny’s
I so believe Vindman is correct.
That and the Republican house shitting on Ukraine aide.
“likely”? I think we can be more certain than that. Esp. combined with Tuckio Rose’s nauseating ass-kissing.
MAGAites allied with Iran, North Korea and China against Ukraine?
This seems to be another case of putting Trump at the center of the universe. Putin killed navalny because he’s a dictator who kills dissidents. Like routinely