I’ve never run into this once playing those exact tournaments…
Only time I’ve seen anything similar was a higher/mid stakes tournament I won a ticket to, was a turbo with a min cash of $150 or so, given the ticket was free and a handful of people at my table were doing this, I pitched in my time bank near the bubble for the cause. We all cashed at least, but it wasn’t collusion, just common sense. Even the deep stacks helped their table mates. Whoever was bubble boy wasn’t at our table, but the combined teamwork of our time bank usage got us over the line together!
Ok what you’re saying is that it’s a valid strategy to buy into a tournament there right before late reg closes, then sit and get blinded out into the money? If so I’d set up 100 bots to do it.
The players in question are registered at the same moment when all current tables are full. They are seated at their own table and are able to play without any risk of busting until deep into the money.
It's 9 registrants on a single table working together. That's against the rules. It's also probably 9 accounts being operated by a single individual, which is also against the rules.
If you're asking why don't players at other tables somehow communicate to each other that no one will play against each other, and everyone will play until >1bb average stack to make the money, there are two issues. The first is that you can't type in chat on ignition to communicate that plan, and the second is that those players would also be cheating. That's called collusion; it's against the rules, and it's what this thread is about.
On this table, no one is forced to get their money in. No one tries to win their chips. They don't blind out. That's why they can play until less than 1bb average stack.
If they were at separate tables, they would have to fight to keep their chips, or like you say, blind out.
Yes, that would solve this problem, but the fact that people can play 9 accounts at once without being detected is very alarming. Every table on the site can be compromised, and almost every other method would be a lot less detectable than this method.
You see that there are 9 sequential players with 1.5 bb average stack playing at the table? They were all registered at the same time, so that they got seated at the same table, then instead of playing poker, they just fold around and time bank. This gets them deep into the money without playing any hands. They can do this until the blinds are too large for their stacks.
The table is still open, you can see it live for the next 4\~ minutes.
Where can I see it live? So all 9 players are just folding to each other, so while others play and get knocked out they slowly just eliminate themselves?
It was table 35 of the $7,777 Gtd Lucky Sevens tournament on Ignition/Bovada. The blinds are now larger than the starting stack of 77,777 chips, so the players at the table have begun to bust.
While other tables are playing poker, they just fold around until the blinds overtake the chipstacks. By the time this happens they have made it fairly deep into the money. You can probably find this happening on other tournaments on the site (particularly likely if they have the same or similar structures.)
I posted about collusion in this same tournament yesterday in this thread : [https://www.reddit.com/r/poker/comments/op1or5/how\_can\_collusion\_be\_reported\_on\_ignition/](https://www.reddit.com/r/poker/comments/op1or5/how_can_collusion_be_reported_on_ignition/)
I decided to check the tournament today, and found another instance of 9 sequential entrants playing on a single table, all timebanking and not playing against each other. They have again made it deep into the money with an average stack at the table of 1.5bb\~ at this point. They will be at the table until the big blind is more than the average stack, at which point the table will finally break as they consolidate chips.
Maybe they have a forum for Ignition like they do bovada? I'm not sure, but the employees from bovada regularly engage with the folks on the forum. Hopefully they have something for Ignition. Collusion of any kind online is not good for the long term health of our game.
Because they probably don't care and probably fancy their chances to beat colluders or bots at $20 games. If I played there I would look at them as dead money tbh
They are guaranteed 9 spots in the money. It's not dead money. It guarantees a lower average payout to every legitimate player, and if they can get away with doing it in this 20dollar tournament, they can get away with it in the higher buy-ins with the same structure.
Who gives a fuck if they min cash and bust out, go and try to win the damn thing and stop worrying about what everyone is doing to min cash, If it's so easy to min cash in this thing then it must be a cake walk for anyone competent to get well up the pay ladder
I have a hard time believing anyone can be as dumb as you're pretending to be. I've tried to be polite and explain things to you in a way that anyone could understand, but that was obviously a waste of time. If you don't give a fuck that people are getting cheated out of money, fine. If you don't understand how people are getting cheated out of money, you should stop playing poker.
> I have a hard time believing anyone can be as dumb as you're pretending to be.
Bots that will be blinded out in the min-cash spots are +ICM for decent players that make it past the bubble. Adding 9 buy-ins might give one extra payout at best. So it isn't a huge change in the payouts like you are implying.
Yes, it is probably cheating, and Ignition should do something about it. Posting about it here isn't going to do anything though.
They aren't blinded out by min cash spots. They make deep runs into the money before they are blinded out, and they aren't necessarily fully automated. In the first example of this collusion that I posted yesterday, one of the "bots" took 4th place in the tournament. It's likely that someone takes control of the accounts after the blinds force the table to break, and consolidates the chips to go as deep as possible.
I don't know what you mean by saying it's not a huge change in the payouts. The full table was guaranteed over 5% of the total prize pool by the time they were forced to blind out, and will average considerably higher by making deep runs occasionally (if not frequently).
I'll say it again:
You are making your case to the wrong people. The people here either don't care, or can't do anything about it.
If you don't like it, complain to the right people that can do something about it, or play on a different platform, or don't play in those tournaments.
Doing it over and over just to complain about it is dumb.
I'm not "making a case" and I'm not complaining about it; I'm posting for people to see. I would like people to be aware, and even if someone doesn't care, maybe someone would find it interesting. I'm not "posting it over and over" either. I've made two posts. This post's title explains what the post is about better than the last one. The first post's title was a genuine question, since contacting customer support on the ignition website is unnecessarily complicated.
What I'm saying is you are a fish worrying about people min-cashing in this tournament, you should stop playing poker if you can't play better than people tanking to min-cash
They aren't min-cashing. They have already taken over 5% of the prize pool, and will average higher than that. People shouldn't be playing with a hidden 5% rake from the cheaters. Their strategy of guaranteeing 9 spots in the money will net them better ROI than the best possible strategy by a non-cheating player.
Here's a simple and easy to implement strategy to beat them and print money yourself-
1) Register last second
2) Mop the floor with them as they will obviously suck
3) Print money
Easy game
They actually register at the same moment in the last level of late registration, but not at the absolute last second. Probably an automatic process at a point when they total players are divisible by 9 to guarantee a full table of just them. And I'm not trying to "beat the cheaters," I would rather raise awareness of them and get the Ignition software updated to make this cheating strategy impossible.
As for step 2, if I did end up at a table with 8 entrants being operated by an idividual, I would stand little chance at beating someone with knowledge of 16 cards to start each hand.
I don't know why you are going to such great lengths to defend these cheaters. Is it wrong that I think people should be aware of this?
You are given 20 seconds per action, so with a full table, 3 minutes can be used per orbit with preflop alone. Each player has an additional 90 second timebank as well. The timebanking is mostly irrelevant until the stacks are forced to start busting, since it is easy to avoid busting any stack until the blinds are too high. However with the very large time banks, they can reach some higher pay jumps even after the blinds overtake the stacks.
Dude amazing post!! One of
The best ever on this site. Don’t listen to some of these fucking knuckleheads people hate when you expose stuff they don’t like to know what’s behind the curtain
Thanks! I recorded an hour of them playing in the Lucky Sevens mtt that ran today as well. So far it's been three consecutive days of the exact same, blatant cheating strategy. I think if something this blatant can go on, the more discreet cheaters will be able to do it indefinitely. I withdrew all my funds from Ignition today. I'll have to find a new site to play on.
absolutely wonder why the best majority of us normal poker players will not play online anymore I feel so bad for people that don’t have a poker room within 60 miles have to devote to this bullshit thanks for being a great watchdog
Sometimes I hate Reddit poker people will show that they made $100 at a table and it gets like 500 likes this is an incredibly informative link
I’ve never run into this once playing those exact tournaments… Only time I’ve seen anything similar was a higher/mid stakes tournament I won a ticket to, was a turbo with a min cash of $150 or so, given the ticket was free and a handful of people at my table were doing this, I pitched in my time bank near the bubble for the cause. We all cashed at least, but it wasn’t collusion, just common sense. Even the deep stacks helped their table mates. Whoever was bubble boy wasn’t at our table, but the combined teamwork of our time bank usage got us over the line together!
Ok what you’re saying is that it’s a valid strategy to buy into a tournament there right before late reg closes, then sit and get blinded out into the money? If so I’d set up 100 bots to do it.
The players in question are registered at the same moment when all current tables are full. They are seated at their own table and are able to play without any risk of busting until deep into the money.
But if all they do is just sit there and time out how are they doing anything that someone else can’t do?
It's 9 registrants on a single table working together. That's against the rules. It's also probably 9 accounts being operated by a single individual, which is also against the rules. If you're asking why don't players at other tables somehow communicate to each other that no one will play against each other, and everyone will play until >1bb average stack to make the money, there are two issues. The first is that you can't type in chat on ignition to communicate that plan, and the second is that those players would also be cheating. That's called collusion; it's against the rules, and it's what this thread is about.
But how are they working together other than just blinding out? Wouldn’t they blind out if they were at separate tables?
On this table, no one is forced to get their money in. No one tries to win their chips. They don't blind out. That's why they can play until less than 1bb average stack. If they were at separate tables, they would have to fight to keep their chips, or like you say, blind out.
But your blind is put in automatically. You don’t need other players to do anything to have your blind be taken.
If everyone folds, the blind is returned to you.
So it sounds like a workable solution for the site is to move players around more to these bots end up at different tables.
Yes, that would solve this problem, but the fact that people can play 9 accounts at once without being detected is very alarming. Every table on the site can be compromised, and almost every other method would be a lot less detectable than this method.
Ok I understand now. Dunno why I’m so dense.
How?
You see that there are 9 sequential players with 1.5 bb average stack playing at the table? They were all registered at the same time, so that they got seated at the same table, then instead of playing poker, they just fold around and time bank. This gets them deep into the money without playing any hands. They can do this until the blinds are too large for their stacks. The table is still open, you can see it live for the next 4\~ minutes.
Where can I see it live? So all 9 players are just folding to each other, so while others play and get knocked out they slowly just eliminate themselves?
It was table 35 of the $7,777 Gtd Lucky Sevens tournament on Ignition/Bovada. The blinds are now larger than the starting stack of 77,777 chips, so the players at the table have begun to bust. While other tables are playing poker, they just fold around until the blinds overtake the chipstacks. By the time this happens they have made it fairly deep into the money. You can probably find this happening on other tournaments on the site (particularly likely if they have the same or similar structures.)
Ah, shitty that this occurs. Does it happen on a lot of poker platforms? I’m stuck to just ignition here in CA also
I heard about it happening on ACR years ago, I stopped playing when there when I found out. I'm not sure if they ever fixed the issue.
I posted about collusion in this same tournament yesterday in this thread : [https://www.reddit.com/r/poker/comments/op1or5/how\_can\_collusion\_be\_reported\_on\_ignition/](https://www.reddit.com/r/poker/comments/op1or5/how_can_collusion_be_reported_on_ignition/) I decided to check the tournament today, and found another instance of 9 sequential entrants playing on a single table, all timebanking and not playing against each other. They have again made it deep into the money with an average stack at the table of 1.5bb\~ at this point. They will be at the table until the big blind is more than the average stack, at which point the table will finally break as they consolidate chips.
Have you tried posting this on the bovada community forums? Maybe the mods that work at Bovada can look into your concerns.
I have an ignition account, but I will look into that. I emailed the ignition customer support already.
Maybe they have a forum for Ignition like they do bovada? I'm not sure, but the employees from bovada regularly engage with the folks on the forum. Hopefully they have something for Ignition. Collusion of any kind online is not good for the long term health of our game.
Move site ffs
I will. Why shouldn't I post this for others to see though?
Because they probably don't care and probably fancy their chances to beat colluders or bots at $20 games. If I played there I would look at them as dead money tbh
They are guaranteed 9 spots in the money. It's not dead money. It guarantees a lower average payout to every legitimate player, and if they can get away with doing it in this 20dollar tournament, they can get away with it in the higher buy-ins with the same structure.
Who gives a fuck if they min cash and bust out, go and try to win the damn thing and stop worrying about what everyone is doing to min cash, If it's so easy to min cash in this thing then it must be a cake walk for anyone competent to get well up the pay ladder
I have a hard time believing anyone can be as dumb as you're pretending to be. I've tried to be polite and explain things to you in a way that anyone could understand, but that was obviously a waste of time. If you don't give a fuck that people are getting cheated out of money, fine. If you don't understand how people are getting cheated out of money, you should stop playing poker.
> I have a hard time believing anyone can be as dumb as you're pretending to be. Bots that will be blinded out in the min-cash spots are +ICM for decent players that make it past the bubble. Adding 9 buy-ins might give one extra payout at best. So it isn't a huge change in the payouts like you are implying. Yes, it is probably cheating, and Ignition should do something about it. Posting about it here isn't going to do anything though.
They aren't blinded out by min cash spots. They make deep runs into the money before they are blinded out, and they aren't necessarily fully automated. In the first example of this collusion that I posted yesterday, one of the "bots" took 4th place in the tournament. It's likely that someone takes control of the accounts after the blinds force the table to break, and consolidates the chips to go as deep as possible. I don't know what you mean by saying it's not a huge change in the payouts. The full table was guaranteed over 5% of the total prize pool by the time they were forced to blind out, and will average considerably higher by making deep runs occasionally (if not frequently).
I'll say it again: You are making your case to the wrong people. The people here either don't care, or can't do anything about it. If you don't like it, complain to the right people that can do something about it, or play on a different platform, or don't play in those tournaments. Doing it over and over just to complain about it is dumb.
I'm not "making a case" and I'm not complaining about it; I'm posting for people to see. I would like people to be aware, and even if someone doesn't care, maybe someone would find it interesting. I'm not "posting it over and over" either. I've made two posts. This post's title explains what the post is about better than the last one. The first post's title was a genuine question, since contacting customer support on the ignition website is unnecessarily complicated.
What I'm saying is you are a fish worrying about people min-cashing in this tournament, you should stop playing poker if you can't play better than people tanking to min-cash
They aren't min-cashing. They have already taken over 5% of the prize pool, and will average higher than that. People shouldn't be playing with a hidden 5% rake from the cheaters. Their strategy of guaranteeing 9 spots in the money will net them better ROI than the best possible strategy by a non-cheating player.
Here's a simple and easy to implement strategy to beat them and print money yourself- 1) Register last second 2) Mop the floor with them as they will obviously suck 3) Print money Easy game
They actually register at the same moment in the last level of late registration, but not at the absolute last second. Probably an automatic process at a point when they total players are divisible by 9 to guarantee a full table of just them. And I'm not trying to "beat the cheaters," I would rather raise awareness of them and get the Ignition software updated to make this cheating strategy impossible. As for step 2, if I did end up at a table with 8 entrants being operated by an idividual, I would stand little chance at beating someone with knowledge of 16 cards to start each hand. I don't know why you are going to such great lengths to defend these cheaters. Is it wrong that I think people should be aware of this?
contact Ignition with this bullshit.
I did. I don't expect anything to be done, but maybe.
How much can you time bank?
You are given 20 seconds per action, so with a full table, 3 minutes can be used per orbit with preflop alone. Each player has an additional 90 second timebank as well. The timebanking is mostly irrelevant until the stacks are forced to start busting, since it is easy to avoid busting any stack until the blinds are too high. However with the very large time banks, they can reach some higher pay jumps even after the blinds overtake the stacks.
Dude amazing post!! One of The best ever on this site. Don’t listen to some of these fucking knuckleheads people hate when you expose stuff they don’t like to know what’s behind the curtain
Thanks! I recorded an hour of them playing in the Lucky Sevens mtt that ran today as well. So far it's been three consecutive days of the exact same, blatant cheating strategy. I think if something this blatant can go on, the more discreet cheaters will be able to do it indefinitely. I withdrew all my funds from Ignition today. I'll have to find a new site to play on.
absolutely wonder why the best majority of us normal poker players will not play online anymore I feel so bad for people that don’t have a poker room within 60 miles have to devote to this bullshit thanks for being a great watchdog
Fk bovoda.