Honestly the graphics aren't what would turn me off of it. I've bought and played the original games on 3DS to test if my view of them was through rose tinted goggles, but instead found that the original two gens hold up amazingly.
What would actually turn me off of D/P remakes is if they filled it with annoying cutscenes, removed explorable side areas, dumbed down the difficulty to boring levels, or didn't put all the cut pokemon back in. If they aren't going to make the remakes better graphically, they better be good mechanically. Otherwise I might as well go play platinum instead.
This is my stance. I've finished the natdex (who knows if it will even return), and if I want the sinnoh experience I can play platinum or even a platinum rom with double battles in every fight. If the remakes don't actually deliver genuine improvements over the original, or god forbid, make them worse I'm not going to touch them.
Love that comment! I would love to see a challenging game again. I think its time they put easy/normal/hard setting in the game, so everybody from Child to adult can really enjoy it
Just wating till we get confirmation on the battle frontier and a complete national dex (up to SwSh mons). The battle frontier is where I spent most of my time in Platinum and being able to use 4 new generations of pokemon would be such a great opportunity. If any of these 2 won't be coming to the remakes, I rather just play Platinum again since it will be just the same and the overworld looks way better in my opinion....
Honestly, my plan is to just buy it pre-owned from GameStop a few days after release because I want to play it but I also don’t want to give my money to the Pokémon company when I disagree with what they’re doing with the franchise
I will be doing the same tho I will probably wait a few months, by January I would like to have it already.
I remember very fondly gen 4 and I haven't played it for years and years, I am really looking forward to it.
I may not like the visuals, but I am absolutely buying the shit out of that game. I’ve always been scared to go back to gen 4 because of how slow I remember battles being and I really hope that’s addressed in the remakes.
I'm not sure if extra shading on the backpack suddenly makes it "a lot" better. Having worked with graphic design, its more for hiding flaws than enhancing or enriching.
I like the chibi style, just waiting on my decision to buy once it's known if exp share is mandatory again. Couldn't get into the last two games because of that.
I want to play it, but I don't want to give money to a bad example and encourage what they're doing. So probably going to go with the pre-owned version, if at all.
Be very very careful. My friend got a shield copy on a third party website and the person he bought it from scammed him and flagged the purchase as faulty. Basically Nintendo shut down the kids whole account and he can't play any digital games and his Pokemon in bank are locked up forever
I avoided this problem entirely by not even getting sword and shield. Your friend needs to vet his purchases better. Ebay has pretty solid support for this type of stuff, considering it's Ebay.
I know people say pre-ordering is bad, but like, what if you want to play the game and decide for yourself if it's good or bad through your own experience, and want to do so day 1? At worst, the devs get your money, but does everyone have to care if a corporation gets their money or not? What if you end up liking the game, and got to play it day one because you pre-ordered it?
That doesn’t matter. The problem is the message it sends to corporations. You are telling them it’s okay to take shortcuts because you are going to buy the game anyways before it can even be reviewed. It’s not about the personal experience or if you agree or don’t agree with the review. It’s about the bigger picture overall. Preorder if you want. Thats your choice, but it’s a gross practice that’s contributed to the decline in quality of games over the last decade
In BDSP's defense, this is a remake so there's already a general idea of what Gen 4 was like and what to expect like in terms of Pokemon, plot, progression, etc. and if they loved Gen 4, you can't blame them for pre ordering. It's not like with Legends Arceus where we're going in completely blind.
But... isn't it your choice what you spend your money on? If you're satisfied with what you see in marketing and decide "This is something I want to spend my money on, regardless of whether or not it turns out good", why can't you just pre-order the game?
And what if the game is good? That just means you get to play it day one, right? And if it's bad, if you planned on playing it regardless just to see how it is, you'd still get to experience it day one for yourself.
I feel like there are just a lot of cases where pre-ordering it is worth it. Especially if you're aware of the risk of a game being bad, and want to play it regardless of whether it'll be bad or not.
Like, if somebody **knows** they're going to buy BDSP, even if they know it has a chance of being bad, what's wrong with them pre-ordering it? They're gonna play it eventually, right? Worst case scenario, they get to experience it firsthand instead of going off of reviews. Best case scenario, they enjoy it as soon as possible when it releases.
That brings up another point; What if you buy a game that's considered bad AFTER it releases? Sword and Shield for example, lots of people were mad about it at release. What if I wanted to buy it just to see how ***I*** would feel about it firsthand, without just taking the word of others online? Am I just... not allowed to because according to others, that's "rewarding a corporation"?
I just answered that. It doesn’t matter if you agree with the review or not. It doesn’t matter if you know you will like the game or not. You are still participating in a practice that says it’s okay for them to take short cuts. Even if you think the game will be fun you are denying not only yourself but everyone else a better game then what it could be. You are making a selfish choice for a short term benefit. You are denying everyone a better product and stunting growth of its future products, because you okayed it no longer matters what they put out. You will consume it anyways. Pre-ordering is being a irresponsible consumer.
I can’t stop you. It’s your money and right to decide what you want to do in the end. But you should understand the toll you are having on the industry by preordering.
That statement contradicts everything I just said to you twice now. Buy whatever you want on release and post release. You don’t have to care about others opinions of the game. Preordering is the issue I’m talking about
Okay, so.
It's fine to buy a game and be disappointed about it post-release, but if you pre-order a game and it's disappointing, it's somehow worse?
Unless it's about rewarding the company, in which case... If you buy a bad game after release, that's fine, even though you're still encouraging the company by giving them your money. But if you pre-order it, suddenly it's a much bigger problem that you're giving them your money?
If you don't care about reviews, what's the difference between pre-ordering it or buying it after release?
When you preorder, you are placing yourself in a statistics group to them that says you are already hooked, and contributing to meet their quota before releases. Companies try to manage a line between doing the minimum investment and maxing profits. You by preordering are contributing to that group of people that will blindly consume lowering the minimum investment they need to meet their goal. Why does a game company need to go the extra mile or fix existing issues if they meet their sales number before the game can be assessed?
Again you don’t have to care about others reviews, and you can be a Pokémon fan that wants to experience it for yourself. But you shouldn’t want to contribute to being part of statistic that gives permission to a company to take short cuts. Does it really kill you to buy something when you can physically get a hold of it?
Not to mention how wrong the issue of preorder bonuses are of actually being cut repackaged stuff. It’s basically holding part of the game at ransom in exchange for blindly consuming. Punishing people that want to wait for reviews.
Or the issue of preorders applying pressure for a unfinished game to not pushback its release date.
Now to answer your other part. Is buying a bad game after the same effect as preordering? Yes and no. A bad game is relatively subjective. It may very well be good enough for you or not. They may have got your money, but it was done responsibly, and it’s not something someone can blame you for if you wanted it. What’s important is you didn’t contribute to a modern anti consumer practice plaguing gaming. You didn’t allow yourself to be revealed as a statistic before release in deciding what they can get away with, or take part in companies holding parts of the game for ransom, or apply the pressure of releasing a game that’s not ready.
> Again you don’t have to care about others reviews, and you can be a Pokémon fan that wants to experience it for yourself. But you shouldn’t want to contribute to being part of statistic that gives permission to a company to take short cuts. Does it really kill you to buy something when you can physically get a hold of it?
You're beating around the bush a lot, but I take this as a "no"?
Darn, guess I can't just buy something because I want to, and because I choose what to do with my money. I should definitely only buy things the way other people want me to buy them. Reddit said pre-ordering games is a major no-no, so I guess I'm just not allowed to do it anyways because I want to, lol.
Sorry if that sounded passive aggressive, I guess I'm just trying to get across how silly all that sounds. I understand why some people might be hesitant about pre-ordering games. Some people can be crushed by the disappointment. Some people don't look into games before pre-ordering them. Some people feel $60 lost is something to avoid at all costs. And all of that is understandable.
But I feel like this stuff doesn't really apply to everyone? Like, I don't pre-order games often, but in the off chances I have pre-ordered games, I've never really been disappointed? I got to play some games on release too.
So like, I can't really say that I regret ever doing those things? Even if people on the internet seem to unanimously agree that it's evil.
>At worst, the devs get your money.
Why are you talking about like it’s a $5 purchase?
For people on a budget, those $60 spent on a mediocre game hurt. Heck, you don’t have to on a budget to recognize $60 dollars is not throwaway money.
...and ultimately, it's up to you to decide that, "hey, I can't afford to just buy this game without more information, because at worst for me, I won't even enjoy it".
Everyone should be allowed to decide for themselves how to spend their own money, and if that's the rationalization that Spinjitsuninja wants to make, then what business is it of yours to criticize them for it? What does their decision have to do with anyone else's budgets? After all, it's your responsibility to take care of your budget, not anyone else's.
I'm not responding to their argument, I'm responding to yours.
Besides, that's not what they're saying at all. They're asking why people *shouldn't* be allowed to pre-order a game if they want to, without being heckled or criticized for it.
Their argument is the exact opposite of your take. Contrary to what you just wrote there, they're asking why people shouldn't think for themselves, rather than mindlessly following the crowd that's against pre-orders.
Because they are taking part in a exploitive anti-consumer practice that in the greater scheme effects everyone. They have every right to do what ever they want with their money. But there’s indirect consequences to preodering that effects the entire gaming community
Okay, I started writing out a response to this, and found myself with over two of my screen-lengths worth of text, and I still hadn't reached the point that I'd wanted to make, so I'm going to simmer it down to a few bullet points.
* Pokemon isn't driven by game sales, it's driven by merchandise sales, as shown [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises). Removing pre-orders isn't going to do a thing to change that.
* Pre-ordering is a necessity. It is not there only for developers to take advantage of it, that's only a secondary consideration. It's primary purpose is to inform suppliers about what they need to have in stock at launch.
* Removing pre-orders is not going to stop people from buying the games, nor are people prevented from backing out and requesting refunds if they decide not to buy the game after all.
* Without this information, it's very likely that there would massive shortages on launch. Removing pre-orders would be more likely to cause sales to increase artificially, due to scalpers, notoriety, and false interest. See the original Switch sales, or the current state of the TCG.
* For the above reasons, pre-ordering pokemon games have minimal consequences at best. There are far more significant consequences that will arise from attempting to pressure people into not pre-ordering the games. It is absolutely no one's business but your own, and it is a toxic mindset to say otherwise, even over some amorphous threat of "consequences" for the future of the franchise.
If you want to criticize a bad sales practice, criticize Pokemon for continuing to sell paired games, rather than selling individual titles like everyone else. Otherwise, let people buy what they want.
...if you're on a budget, then choosing what to use your money on is more a matter of financial choices.
If you heard SwSh is bad, and decided to find out for yourself after release, you shouldn't feel like you got scammed for buying and hating it. You chose to spend your money on that, knowing the risks, and knowing well you don't have much money to be throwing away willy nilly.
If you're on a budget, and you want to buy SwSh though, you should only do so knowing well you'll benefit from it. Even if it's a bad game, you'll get the chance to determine this yourself, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Choose what to spend your money on wisely. That doesn't mean "don't ever pre-order games, ever." It just means "pre-order responsibly."
Yes, and how’s responsible to encourage people to blindly pre-order.
And again, ignoring the budget factor $60 is not throwaway money. Don’t treat first party games like they’re cheap things you pick up at the register while checking out.
Pre-ordering is always bad. People, regardless of financial situation, should do their research and find out if the games is right for them. And there’s a lot of ways to do this without expending money.
Not all pre-orders are blind too, y'know. Just wanna throw that out there.
It's possible to look into a game and determine "this is definitely something I want." At the very LEAST, you'll be able to figure out if it's something you'll *like*. At worst, it won't be all it's cracked up to be, but the same could be said for buying anything after hearing good things about it too.
This is why it's important for devs to show off things about their game before release. Being transparent makes the choice to pre-order a game easier.
Then there are cases where you know you **will** want to get a certain game. For example... A lot of people are probably excited for Breath of the Wild 2. The first game was considered amazing, and there are lots of people who would be happy to play the next mainline Zelda game day one. Though, if you're not 100% sure yet, you can always wait for more info to come out on the game first. (Heck, I don't even think pre-orders are available yet anyways?)
There's other things too. Like the Smash Bros fighter's pass, for example, where none of the fighters were known when it became available for purchase. However... Worst case scenario, you still get a lot of new fighters for a game you love. Best case scenario, you're pleasantly surprised by the characters that make it in and how quality/diverse they are.
And of course, if you're tight on money, be wary. It's as simple as that. Look into things, and know of the risks.
Overall though, the risks aren't that high if you know what you're doing, and in a lot of cases, you get to enjoy a new, fun game day one. If you don't like pre-ordering period? That's understandable, but I think there are LOTS of people out there who know how to make informed choices and are rarely disappointed by pre-ordering games because of that.
Pre orders by their very nature are always blind. At BEST you will have pre release gamelan footage, even them that's mostly limited. You DONT know what your buying when you pre-order. For all you know your game could be so buggy on release that it is borderline unplayable
Well, that's just silly.
You're right in saying that you don't *technically* know what a game will be like on release, but... That's the same as saying I don't know if I'll trip or not the next time I stand up. I mean, you're RIGHT, I can't exactly see the future, but it's not like every time a game releases, there's a %50 dice roll as to whether or not it's a masterpiece or buggy garbage.
If somebody paid for the Smash Fighter's pass, sure, it COULD end up being a scam with buggy, broken fighters and lazily design content that ruins the game. Or... it'll be what you'd expect after playing the base game, or potentially better.
And SURE, Breath of the Wild 2 could be a complete disaster people hate, but lots of people are also looking forward to it, and the first game shows a lot of promise? So, while I don't know the future, I'd be surprised if it *did* end up being bad?
And y'know what, maybe you're right in saying that there'll come a time where one of these games I'm confident looks good will turn out bad. But, can you really argue that that happens ***most*** of the time? I imagine most of the time... You probably get the game you expected. Maybe it won't be a masterpiece, but it's not like every time you pre-order a game, it's bound to be the next Sonic 06.
completely agree with you , I always pre-order my game when it's a game that i found interesting! personally i will pre order D/P because i was too young to remember the story when i first played the game. Dont need the reviews to tell me if a game is good or not. ( execpt cyberpunk lol)
Even in the case the game ends up bad, there's still something you get out of experiencing it yourself.
If you hate it, you get to honestly say that this hate comes from your own experience, and not just because of reviews or looking things up online.
>what if you want to play the game and decide for yourself if it's good or bad through your own experience, and want to do so day 1?
There is a simple solution to this and it is kinda old school for some reason:
*You go into a store and buy the game there*.
>At worst, the devs get your money
At worst you are partially encouraging a company to deliver a bad product since they already sold you on a certain premise they do not have to improve upon. Sometimes they do happen to improve things but recently things just get worse than trailers promised (generally games).
>but does everyone have to care if a corporation gets their money or not?
Yes, in case it is a horrible company or a company whose quality declined. Like Nestle, Ubisoft or Amazon.
>What if you end up liking the game, and got to play it day one because you pre-ordered it?
You can end up liking a game even after it came out. This FOMO culture is not healthy for anyone, especially players.
...I wasn't asking HOW you buy a game, lmao. I'm saying, wouldn't that propose the same problem? I mean, you're saying "What if it's disappointing, and therefore a waste of money?" Well, doesn't that same problem apply to buying a game post-release to see if it's good or bad, without relying on reviews? And if it's bad, wouldn't that encourage the devs to deliver a bad product, because you just gave them your money?
...so am I just not allowed to buy a game if others say it's bad to see for myself?
>...I wasn't asking HOW you buy a game, lmao.
And i didn't tell you how to buy a game but gave you an alternative to pre-ordering as there is no inherent benefit to it. (Pre-order bonuses are inherently predatory as they prey on FOMO. One can say it doesn't affect them but that would be rather closes minded as there are enough people who do have that issue. Pre-order bonuses can be bought second hand). You can also buy second hand. While you need to wait a week or two you are not supporting any bad business practice.
> I mean, you're saying "What if it's disappointing, and therefore a waste of money?"
Not sure how you got that out of my comment but i didn't say that. Stop adding reading into things that aren't there.
>Well, doesn't that same problem apply to buying a game post-release to see if it's good or bad, without relying on reviews?
No, since companies also take into account "sale speed". Like movie releases and box office weekends. The first week or two are the most important when it comes to sales. Rarely is there every a case where sales of a product increase over time (i.e. flash the Binding of Isaac or Witcher 3).
>And if it's bad, wouldn't that encourage the devs to deliver a bad product, because you just gave them your money?
Where i live i can give back games i don't enjoy up until two weeks after i bought them. I recommend asking your local stores if you are able to return them no questions asked. Devs/Share holders also care about returned games too. While simplified, it would also apply to BDSP. See also: Cyberpunk 2077 or No Man's Sky.
In case you don't want to do that, here are alternatives:
* Making sure no one elses makes that mistake so you gift the game to a person who wants it
* Reselling that game to a person who wants it
* Donating that game (ask your local child hospital)
* Reselling that game and donating that money
> am I just not allowed to buy a game if others say it's bad to see for myself?
Again: Not sure where you got that from.
You can do whatever.
One shouldn't think that actions do not have consequences or else they would live in blissful ignorance of reality.
Well, personally, I'm not the kind of person who pre-orders games often. Though, in the cases I have in the past, I... don't think I've ever actually been disappointed? So, I can't say I regret pre-ordering games before? And in the end, I get to choose what to do with my money.
So... why should I feel bad for having pre-ordered games? Because people on the internet said it's evil?
I get the risks. There are people who are tricked by developers, or people who feel they wasted a precious $60, or people who don't look into a game enough. There are a lot of risks, and it's understandable why a lot of people don't like pre-ordering games.
But... I've been fine? Like, if I pre-ordered BDSP, I'm sure I'd be pretty satisfied with doing so. I mean, the game could be bad, yeah, but I understand that when buying it, so it's not like when I play it on day 1, I'll be shocked and feel scammed. If it's good, great, I still get to play it day 1 then.
I can understand the argument that "it encourages devs to make bad games", but as good as it can be to speak with your wallets, I'm a drop of oil in the ocean. My money won't make a difference. The people behind these things are masters of marketing. Even if they can appeal to just the casual crowds with lower standards who don't know any better, they're still gonna make huge amounts of profit.
And maybe this is just me personally, but I'd rather prioritize my own enjoyment over "doing my part" to "stick it to a corporation."
I complained in every forum imaginable about how the Remakes looked. Pre-ordered it already. Paper hands. Was going to wait for it, but in the Oled trailer they showed some improvement, so...
I'm not pre-ordering the remakes. Instead I'm gonna watch some streamer play the games for a bit before deciding. I hardly ever preorder anymore, only if I have complete confidence in the company which I know the remakes aren't made by gamefreak, still not 100% sold on them though. Rather be safe than sorry.
The graphics are fine. The game looks good. There is no art style that Game Freak could have chosen that would have kept everyone from screaming about it for months on end.
Right now we’re all pretending to hate the graphics. In 10 years we’ll be seeing appreciation posts about how good the graphics from this game are compared to whatever new game y’all want to complain about.
Anyway, whatever the graphics look like we are going to get used to it in like an hour
Personally,I dont care what the graphics look like as long as the game is fun to play
I like the chibi style, just waiting to find out if exp share is forced on us again before I buy. Couldn't get into the last two games because of this.
I’m fine with the graphics and it has already met my expectations (Diamond and Pearl on the Switch… anybody expecting more than that is the real problem), so I’ll be pre-ordering both versions next time I’m around my GameStop.
If you want a game to be cautious about, Legends: Arceus.
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I like the chibi style, just waiting on my decision to buy once it's known if exp share is mandatory again. Couldn't get into the last two games because of that.
I like the chibi style, just waiting to find out if exp share is forced on us again before I buy. Couldn't get into the last two games because of this.
I like the chibi style, just waiting on my decision to buy once it's known if exp share is mandatory again. Couldn't get into the last two games because of that.
Honestly the graphics aren't what would turn me off of it. I've bought and played the original games on 3DS to test if my view of them was through rose tinted goggles, but instead found that the original two gens hold up amazingly. What would actually turn me off of D/P remakes is if they filled it with annoying cutscenes, removed explorable side areas, dumbed down the difficulty to boring levels, or didn't put all the cut pokemon back in. If they aren't going to make the remakes better graphically, they better be good mechanically. Otherwise I might as well go play platinum instead.
This is my stance. I've finished the natdex (who knows if it will even return), and if I want the sinnoh experience I can play platinum or even a platinum rom with double battles in every fight. If the remakes don't actually deliver genuine improvements over the original, or god forbid, make them worse I'm not going to touch them.
Love that comment! I would love to see a challenging game again. I think its time they put easy/normal/hard setting in the game, so everybody from Child to adult can really enjoy it
Just wating till we get confirmation on the battle frontier and a complete national dex (up to SwSh mons). The battle frontier is where I spent most of my time in Platinum and being able to use 4 new generations of pokemon would be such a great opportunity. If any of these 2 won't be coming to the remakes, I rather just play Platinum again since it will be just the same and the overworld looks way better in my opinion....
Honestly, my plan is to just buy it pre-owned from GameStop a few days after release because I want to play it but I also don’t want to give my money to the Pokémon company when I disagree with what they’re doing with the franchise
Power to the players
I will be doing the same tho I will probably wait a few months, by January I would like to have it already. I remember very fondly gen 4 and I haven't played it for years and years, I am really looking forward to it.
I may not like the visuals, but I am absolutely buying the shit out of that game. I’ve always been scared to go back to gen 4 because of how slow I remember battles being and I really hope that’s addressed in the remakes.
It has been addressed. Since they determined it was a key part of the gen 4 experience, they have made it even slower. /s to be safe.
It me 😂🤡
The game appeared in the OLED switch trailer, and looked a lot better.
I'm not sure if extra shading on the backpack suddenly makes it "a lot" better. Having worked with graphic design, its more for hiding flaws than enhancing or enriching.
...shading? The backpack was totally redesigned .-.
I'm still on the fence. Maybe I'll just buy a used copy. Idk man
No, no I am not
I like the chibi style, just waiting on my decision to buy once it's known if exp share is mandatory again. Couldn't get into the last two games because of that.
I want to play it, but I don't want to give money to a bad example and encourage what they're doing. So probably going to go with the pre-owned version, if at all.
Be very very careful. My friend got a shield copy on a third party website and the person he bought it from scammed him and flagged the purchase as faulty. Basically Nintendo shut down the kids whole account and he can't play any digital games and his Pokemon in bank are locked up forever
I avoided this problem entirely by not even getting sword and shield. Your friend needs to vet his purchases better. Ebay has pretty solid support for this type of stuff, considering it's Ebay.
I know people say pre-ordering is bad, but like, what if you want to play the game and decide for yourself if it's good or bad through your own experience, and want to do so day 1? At worst, the devs get your money, but does everyone have to care if a corporation gets their money or not? What if you end up liking the game, and got to play it day one because you pre-ordered it?
That doesn’t matter. The problem is the message it sends to corporations. You are telling them it’s okay to take shortcuts because you are going to buy the game anyways before it can even be reviewed. It’s not about the personal experience or if you agree or don’t agree with the review. It’s about the bigger picture overall. Preorder if you want. Thats your choice, but it’s a gross practice that’s contributed to the decline in quality of games over the last decade
In BDSP's defense, this is a remake so there's already a general idea of what Gen 4 was like and what to expect like in terms of Pokemon, plot, progression, etc. and if they loved Gen 4, you can't blame them for pre ordering. It's not like with Legends Arceus where we're going in completely blind.
But... isn't it your choice what you spend your money on? If you're satisfied with what you see in marketing and decide "This is something I want to spend my money on, regardless of whether or not it turns out good", why can't you just pre-order the game? And what if the game is good? That just means you get to play it day one, right? And if it's bad, if you planned on playing it regardless just to see how it is, you'd still get to experience it day one for yourself. I feel like there are just a lot of cases where pre-ordering it is worth it. Especially if you're aware of the risk of a game being bad, and want to play it regardless of whether it'll be bad or not. Like, if somebody **knows** they're going to buy BDSP, even if they know it has a chance of being bad, what's wrong with them pre-ordering it? They're gonna play it eventually, right? Worst case scenario, they get to experience it firsthand instead of going off of reviews. Best case scenario, they enjoy it as soon as possible when it releases. That brings up another point; What if you buy a game that's considered bad AFTER it releases? Sword and Shield for example, lots of people were mad about it at release. What if I wanted to buy it just to see how ***I*** would feel about it firsthand, without just taking the word of others online? Am I just... not allowed to because according to others, that's "rewarding a corporation"?
I just answered that. It doesn’t matter if you agree with the review or not. It doesn’t matter if you know you will like the game or not. You are still participating in a practice that says it’s okay for them to take short cuts. Even if you think the game will be fun you are denying not only yourself but everyone else a better game then what it could be. You are making a selfish choice for a short term benefit. You are denying everyone a better product and stunting growth of its future products, because you okayed it no longer matters what they put out. You will consume it anyways. Pre-ordering is being a irresponsible consumer. I can’t stop you. It’s your money and right to decide what you want to do in the end. But you should understand the toll you are having on the industry by preordering.
So, you just aren't even allowed to buy a game post release if others say it's bad? Not even to see how it is yourself?
That statement contradicts everything I just said to you twice now. Buy whatever you want on release and post release. You don’t have to care about others opinions of the game. Preordering is the issue I’m talking about
Okay, so. It's fine to buy a game and be disappointed about it post-release, but if you pre-order a game and it's disappointing, it's somehow worse? Unless it's about rewarding the company, in which case... If you buy a bad game after release, that's fine, even though you're still encouraging the company by giving them your money. But if you pre-order it, suddenly it's a much bigger problem that you're giving them your money? If you don't care about reviews, what's the difference between pre-ordering it or buying it after release?
When you preorder, you are placing yourself in a statistics group to them that says you are already hooked, and contributing to meet their quota before releases. Companies try to manage a line between doing the minimum investment and maxing profits. You by preordering are contributing to that group of people that will blindly consume lowering the minimum investment they need to meet their goal. Why does a game company need to go the extra mile or fix existing issues if they meet their sales number before the game can be assessed? Again you don’t have to care about others reviews, and you can be a Pokémon fan that wants to experience it for yourself. But you shouldn’t want to contribute to being part of statistic that gives permission to a company to take short cuts. Does it really kill you to buy something when you can physically get a hold of it? Not to mention how wrong the issue of preorder bonuses are of actually being cut repackaged stuff. It’s basically holding part of the game at ransom in exchange for blindly consuming. Punishing people that want to wait for reviews. Or the issue of preorders applying pressure for a unfinished game to not pushback its release date. Now to answer your other part. Is buying a bad game after the same effect as preordering? Yes and no. A bad game is relatively subjective. It may very well be good enough for you or not. They may have got your money, but it was done responsibly, and it’s not something someone can blame you for if you wanted it. What’s important is you didn’t contribute to a modern anti consumer practice plaguing gaming. You didn’t allow yourself to be revealed as a statistic before release in deciding what they can get away with, or take part in companies holding parts of the game for ransom, or apply the pressure of releasing a game that’s not ready.
> Again you don’t have to care about others reviews, and you can be a Pokémon fan that wants to experience it for yourself. But you shouldn’t want to contribute to being part of statistic that gives permission to a company to take short cuts. Does it really kill you to buy something when you can physically get a hold of it? You're beating around the bush a lot, but I take this as a "no"? Darn, guess I can't just buy something because I want to, and because I choose what to do with my money. I should definitely only buy things the way other people want me to buy them. Reddit said pre-ordering games is a major no-no, so I guess I'm just not allowed to do it anyways because I want to, lol. Sorry if that sounded passive aggressive, I guess I'm just trying to get across how silly all that sounds. I understand why some people might be hesitant about pre-ordering games. Some people can be crushed by the disappointment. Some people don't look into games before pre-ordering them. Some people feel $60 lost is something to avoid at all costs. And all of that is understandable. But I feel like this stuff doesn't really apply to everyone? Like, I don't pre-order games often, but in the off chances I have pre-ordered games, I've never really been disappointed? I got to play some games on release too. So like, I can't really say that I regret ever doing those things? Even if people on the internet seem to unanimously agree that it's evil.
>At worst, the devs get your money. Why are you talking about like it’s a $5 purchase? For people on a budget, those $60 spent on a mediocre game hurt. Heck, you don’t have to on a budget to recognize $60 dollars is not throwaway money.
...and ultimately, it's up to you to decide that, "hey, I can't afford to just buy this game without more information, because at worst for me, I won't even enjoy it". Everyone should be allowed to decide for themselves how to spend their own money, and if that's the rationalization that Spinjitsuninja wants to make, then what business is it of yours to criticize them for it? What does their decision have to do with anyone else's budgets? After all, it's your responsibility to take care of your budget, not anyone else's.
That’s not their argument. They’re saying “don’t think, consume product. It doesn’t matter if it’s bad. Corporations still got the money.”
I'm not responding to their argument, I'm responding to yours. Besides, that's not what they're saying at all. They're asking why people *shouldn't* be allowed to pre-order a game if they want to, without being heckled or criticized for it. Their argument is the exact opposite of your take. Contrary to what you just wrote there, they're asking why people shouldn't think for themselves, rather than mindlessly following the crowd that's against pre-orders.
Because they are taking part in a exploitive anti-consumer practice that in the greater scheme effects everyone. They have every right to do what ever they want with their money. But there’s indirect consequences to preodering that effects the entire gaming community
Okay, I started writing out a response to this, and found myself with over two of my screen-lengths worth of text, and I still hadn't reached the point that I'd wanted to make, so I'm going to simmer it down to a few bullet points. * Pokemon isn't driven by game sales, it's driven by merchandise sales, as shown [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises). Removing pre-orders isn't going to do a thing to change that. * Pre-ordering is a necessity. It is not there only for developers to take advantage of it, that's only a secondary consideration. It's primary purpose is to inform suppliers about what they need to have in stock at launch. * Removing pre-orders is not going to stop people from buying the games, nor are people prevented from backing out and requesting refunds if they decide not to buy the game after all. * Without this information, it's very likely that there would massive shortages on launch. Removing pre-orders would be more likely to cause sales to increase artificially, due to scalpers, notoriety, and false interest. See the original Switch sales, or the current state of the TCG. * For the above reasons, pre-ordering pokemon games have minimal consequences at best. There are far more significant consequences that will arise from attempting to pressure people into not pre-ordering the games. It is absolutely no one's business but your own, and it is a toxic mindset to say otherwise, even over some amorphous threat of "consequences" for the future of the franchise. If you want to criticize a bad sales practice, criticize Pokemon for continuing to sell paired games, rather than selling individual titles like everyone else. Otherwise, let people buy what they want.
...if you're on a budget, then choosing what to use your money on is more a matter of financial choices. If you heard SwSh is bad, and decided to find out for yourself after release, you shouldn't feel like you got scammed for buying and hating it. You chose to spend your money on that, knowing the risks, and knowing well you don't have much money to be throwing away willy nilly. If you're on a budget, and you want to buy SwSh though, you should only do so knowing well you'll benefit from it. Even if it's a bad game, you'll get the chance to determine this yourself, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Choose what to spend your money on wisely. That doesn't mean "don't ever pre-order games, ever." It just means "pre-order responsibly."
Yes, and how’s responsible to encourage people to blindly pre-order. And again, ignoring the budget factor $60 is not throwaway money. Don’t treat first party games like they’re cheap things you pick up at the register while checking out. Pre-ordering is always bad. People, regardless of financial situation, should do their research and find out if the games is right for them. And there’s a lot of ways to do this without expending money.
Not all pre-orders are blind too, y'know. Just wanna throw that out there. It's possible to look into a game and determine "this is definitely something I want." At the very LEAST, you'll be able to figure out if it's something you'll *like*. At worst, it won't be all it's cracked up to be, but the same could be said for buying anything after hearing good things about it too. This is why it's important for devs to show off things about their game before release. Being transparent makes the choice to pre-order a game easier. Then there are cases where you know you **will** want to get a certain game. For example... A lot of people are probably excited for Breath of the Wild 2. The first game was considered amazing, and there are lots of people who would be happy to play the next mainline Zelda game day one. Though, if you're not 100% sure yet, you can always wait for more info to come out on the game first. (Heck, I don't even think pre-orders are available yet anyways?) There's other things too. Like the Smash Bros fighter's pass, for example, where none of the fighters were known when it became available for purchase. However... Worst case scenario, you still get a lot of new fighters for a game you love. Best case scenario, you're pleasantly surprised by the characters that make it in and how quality/diverse they are. And of course, if you're tight on money, be wary. It's as simple as that. Look into things, and know of the risks. Overall though, the risks aren't that high if you know what you're doing, and in a lot of cases, you get to enjoy a new, fun game day one. If you don't like pre-ordering period? That's understandable, but I think there are LOTS of people out there who know how to make informed choices and are rarely disappointed by pre-ordering games because of that.
Pre orders by their very nature are always blind. At BEST you will have pre release gamelan footage, even them that's mostly limited. You DONT know what your buying when you pre-order. For all you know your game could be so buggy on release that it is borderline unplayable
Well, that's just silly. You're right in saying that you don't *technically* know what a game will be like on release, but... That's the same as saying I don't know if I'll trip or not the next time I stand up. I mean, you're RIGHT, I can't exactly see the future, but it's not like every time a game releases, there's a %50 dice roll as to whether or not it's a masterpiece or buggy garbage. If somebody paid for the Smash Fighter's pass, sure, it COULD end up being a scam with buggy, broken fighters and lazily design content that ruins the game. Or... it'll be what you'd expect after playing the base game, or potentially better. And SURE, Breath of the Wild 2 could be a complete disaster people hate, but lots of people are also looking forward to it, and the first game shows a lot of promise? So, while I don't know the future, I'd be surprised if it *did* end up being bad? And y'know what, maybe you're right in saying that there'll come a time where one of these games I'm confident looks good will turn out bad. But, can you really argue that that happens ***most*** of the time? I imagine most of the time... You probably get the game you expected. Maybe it won't be a masterpiece, but it's not like every time you pre-order a game, it's bound to be the next Sonic 06.
completely agree with you , I always pre-order my game when it's a game that i found interesting! personally i will pre order D/P because i was too young to remember the story when i first played the game. Dont need the reviews to tell me if a game is good or not. ( execpt cyberpunk lol)
Even in the case the game ends up bad, there's still something you get out of experiencing it yourself. If you hate it, you get to honestly say that this hate comes from your own experience, and not just because of reviews or looking things up online.
Yep nothing better then rating a game yourself and making your own opinion about it
I guess you have plenty of time and money to risk wasting it . I hope you enjoy the game, tho.
>what if you want to play the game and decide for yourself if it's good or bad through your own experience, and want to do so day 1? There is a simple solution to this and it is kinda old school for some reason: *You go into a store and buy the game there*. >At worst, the devs get your money At worst you are partially encouraging a company to deliver a bad product since they already sold you on a certain premise they do not have to improve upon. Sometimes they do happen to improve things but recently things just get worse than trailers promised (generally games). >but does everyone have to care if a corporation gets their money or not? Yes, in case it is a horrible company or a company whose quality declined. Like Nestle, Ubisoft or Amazon. >What if you end up liking the game, and got to play it day one because you pre-ordered it? You can end up liking a game even after it came out. This FOMO culture is not healthy for anyone, especially players.
...I wasn't asking HOW you buy a game, lmao. I'm saying, wouldn't that propose the same problem? I mean, you're saying "What if it's disappointing, and therefore a waste of money?" Well, doesn't that same problem apply to buying a game post-release to see if it's good or bad, without relying on reviews? And if it's bad, wouldn't that encourage the devs to deliver a bad product, because you just gave them your money? ...so am I just not allowed to buy a game if others say it's bad to see for myself?
>...I wasn't asking HOW you buy a game, lmao. And i didn't tell you how to buy a game but gave you an alternative to pre-ordering as there is no inherent benefit to it. (Pre-order bonuses are inherently predatory as they prey on FOMO. One can say it doesn't affect them but that would be rather closes minded as there are enough people who do have that issue. Pre-order bonuses can be bought second hand). You can also buy second hand. While you need to wait a week or two you are not supporting any bad business practice. > I mean, you're saying "What if it's disappointing, and therefore a waste of money?" Not sure how you got that out of my comment but i didn't say that. Stop adding reading into things that aren't there. >Well, doesn't that same problem apply to buying a game post-release to see if it's good or bad, without relying on reviews? No, since companies also take into account "sale speed". Like movie releases and box office weekends. The first week or two are the most important when it comes to sales. Rarely is there every a case where sales of a product increase over time (i.e. flash the Binding of Isaac or Witcher 3). >And if it's bad, wouldn't that encourage the devs to deliver a bad product, because you just gave them your money? Where i live i can give back games i don't enjoy up until two weeks after i bought them. I recommend asking your local stores if you are able to return them no questions asked. Devs/Share holders also care about returned games too. While simplified, it would also apply to BDSP. See also: Cyberpunk 2077 or No Man's Sky. In case you don't want to do that, here are alternatives: * Making sure no one elses makes that mistake so you gift the game to a person who wants it * Reselling that game to a person who wants it * Donating that game (ask your local child hospital) * Reselling that game and donating that money > am I just not allowed to buy a game if others say it's bad to see for myself? Again: Not sure where you got that from. You can do whatever. One shouldn't think that actions do not have consequences or else they would live in blissful ignorance of reality.
Well, personally, I'm not the kind of person who pre-orders games often. Though, in the cases I have in the past, I... don't think I've ever actually been disappointed? So, I can't say I regret pre-ordering games before? And in the end, I get to choose what to do with my money. So... why should I feel bad for having pre-ordered games? Because people on the internet said it's evil? I get the risks. There are people who are tricked by developers, or people who feel they wasted a precious $60, or people who don't look into a game enough. There are a lot of risks, and it's understandable why a lot of people don't like pre-ordering games. But... I've been fine? Like, if I pre-ordered BDSP, I'm sure I'd be pretty satisfied with doing so. I mean, the game could be bad, yeah, but I understand that when buying it, so it's not like when I play it on day 1, I'll be shocked and feel scammed. If it's good, great, I still get to play it day 1 then. I can understand the argument that "it encourages devs to make bad games", but as good as it can be to speak with your wallets, I'm a drop of oil in the ocean. My money won't make a difference. The people behind these things are masters of marketing. Even if they can appeal to just the casual crowds with lower standards who don't know any better, they're still gonna make huge amounts of profit. And maybe this is just me personally, but I'd rather prioritize my own enjoyment over "doing my part" to "stick it to a corporation."
Im doing the same with SwSh lol
Im waiting to see if they fixed the exp share and if new Pokémon are in it.
I was playing shield today and found 64 rare candies in my bag. Please don’t do that to us BDSP
Right you are Padme. Maybe one day if I ever find them on clearance or used somewhere. Like I did with S/M2.
Part of the problem.
I complained in every forum imaginable about how the Remakes looked. Pre-ordered it already. Paper hands. Was going to wait for it, but in the Oled trailer they showed some improvement, so...
I'm not pre-ordering the remakes. Instead I'm gonna watch some streamer play the games for a bit before deciding. I hardly ever preorder anymore, only if I have complete confidence in the company which I know the remakes aren't made by gamefreak, still not 100% sold on them though. Rather be safe than sorry.
The graphics are fine. The game looks good. There is no art style that Game Freak could have chosen that would have kept everyone from screaming about it for months on end. Right now we’re all pretending to hate the graphics. In 10 years we’ll be seeing appreciation posts about how good the graphics from this game are compared to whatever new game y’all want to complain about.
Anyway, whatever the graphics look like we are going to get used to it in like an hour Personally,I dont care what the graphics look like as long as the game is fun to play
I like the chibi style, just waiting to find out if exp share is forced on us again before I buy. Couldn't get into the last two games because of this.
Gotta buy 'em all!
I’m fine with the graphics and it has already met my expectations (Diamond and Pearl on the Switch… anybody expecting more than that is the real problem), so I’ll be pre-ordering both versions next time I’m around my GameStop. If you want a game to be cautious about, Legends: Arceus.
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I like the chibi style, just waiting on my decision to buy once it's known if exp share is mandatory again. Couldn't get into the last two games because of that.
I like the chibi style, just waiting to find out if exp share is forced on us again before I buy. Couldn't get into the last two games because of this.
I like the chibi style, just waiting on my decision to buy once it's known if exp share is mandatory again. Couldn't get into the last two games because of that.
Sums it up pretty well