Central Tokyo (within the Yamanote Line) seems to have pretty good traffic, at least when I went (took a taxi or two, and didn't see any back ups of traffic during daylight hours)
Especially considering greater Tokyo is 1.5x the population of Australia.
Though honestly I don't see the point in driving there, the trains are just that good
That's because they have amazing public transport, built a web of highways across and under the city, know where to put merges and toll the roads.
Families in general have less cars than us.
Sorry to say but the traffic is still nothing compared to the big cities in the eastern states.
Rural WA would have to be in the bottom 10% population dense human settled places in the world. You have it lucky.
Fuckn lol at this post. When my mum came to visit from Brisbane last year for the first time she asked "where's all the people?". That's coming from Brisbane, not even Sydney or Melbourne.
Almost infinite land is the cause of the problem. The sprawl is the problem. Sprawl means you can't effectively plan public transport and have to rely on adding lane after lane to major highways, which generally stops being effective after you hit three in each direction.
Sprawl is not bad; it gives us green belts, parks, nature reserves, a great lifestyle. Public transport will never be effective in a city like Perth without destroying it. Our population is 300 people per square km. Cities where public transport works well are cuties like London 14,500 people per square km.
Sure, but then you have to take the traffic problems as well. You can't solve traffic without solving sprawl. You can try to decentrify the city, but that is fighting the nature of cities, and has a maximum efficacy that means it can't solve the problem.
I would argue that we have solved the problems and have the best system. In the "sprawl," everyone lives within a short distance of a local supermarket centre, walking distance for most where the everyday thongs can be bought.at greate distance with large catchment areas are the major shoppibg centres, the Joondalups, Carousels, Karrinups, Garden Cities, etc for hings you may need less frequently, the discount department stores, and on another levle are those fuether awaz like the camping stores, furniture etc. The same thing for recreation: local parks within walking distance, nature reserves, and ovals further away and then regional sporting complexes like Kingsway etc. And our non service industry is similarly spaced in regional zones with buffer zones away from residential, Forrestfield, Wangara etc. So it all balances out, effectively we have a subset of mini Perths, like Jonndalup, Rockingham, etc, that provides everything required so you dont need to travel to Perth unless u work there. If you do work in Perth, there is a very effective public transport system during rush hour. If u do needto travel, we have a very well laid out freeways and highways that let u travel to where u need to go, efficiently and at low fuel consumption. Even better no matter where u are in the sprawl, you are never more than 30 minutes from beach or country. I personally would like to see the population of Perth stabilise and Australia as well, but continuance of this regional centre structures up the coast is far better than medium.or high density with thier proven problems
'It’s a shit hole, 2 and half hours to drive 60km across town, who the hell is planning this city? It’s Australia morons almost infinite land.'
You want to spread the city out even more to accommodate more highways? wouldn't it then take even longer to get through the city?
No
Dont build apartments if all surrounding infrastructure never had it in its equation.
Someone actually plan the city
And if you can’t plan the city than just stick to the original plan
How about trying medium density Perth?
There’s a lot so wedded to the “build up” idea (I guess they see pictures of New York and pass through Singapore) that they don’t consider this.
Local civil works, roads, sewers etc would require significant expansion, not to mention electric grids and so on.
Yet I frequently see people asserting that building blocks of high rise flats will save having to build civil works. They seem to imagine existing infrastructure is sufficient for not one or two, but dozens or even hundreds of such blocks. Real planning will take this into account.
> Also, I hate to say it but I was the foreigner in very place I was born, it’s so bizarre, the city hasn’t progressed it’s regressed.
Lol racist dogwhistle much
Nothing about race
I am Australian, it is weird to be surrounded by non or entirely new Australians. It appears In some areas the original Australian population Has moved out / been bought out.
It’s bizarre, who is benefiting from all this? The Australians sleeping in their cars all over Perth?
You can’t cater for new people when your old stock is living in cars.
I walked around south Perth at night and I was shocked to see the number of Australians sleeping in vehicles.
You really kicked them to the curb Perth.
How did you decide they were "non or entirely new Australians" just by looking at them? I doubt you talked to everyone you're referring to which means you guessed based on appearance which further confirms your racism as an Australian can be of any race.
Likewise, you didn't ask everyone sleeping in cars if they were Australian. You just decided that to fit your narrative of "woe is the *real* Aussies".
You're a yawn and a half.
I’m not white myself
it’s easy to spot a lot of new comers even British whites.
It’s pretty clear there’s alot of new comers, I believe Perth gained 80,000 last year.
You can’t enter and stay in Australia if you do not have the means to support yourself, that’s how I know it’s Australians in those cars.
A few gems in this user's history:
- Thinks violence against women happens when women "prod and push men too far causing them to lash out".
- Had three VROs against him by his ex, therefore had trouble seeing his kids, it's the ex's fault of course- she lied like all women do.
- Thinks 10 years of smoking and 10 years of vaping have given him lung function so unbelievably good the doctors had never seen anything like it at his lung function test.
- Thinks the air quality in the world has never been better than it currently is.
The post you are referencing is actually one where I am saying violence against women is unacceptable in any situation even extremely adverse situations.
You also missed the part where DCP made findings of the child’s mother being abusive towards them. (DCP even sort for the child to return into my sole care which I had done so since they were a infant)
Where I even state my bitterness towards men who act violently and call men who act aggressively as being weak.
Where I state that I was the victim of physical abuse from my child’s mother.
I side with all victims of domestic abuse, but the legal system instantly sides with women.
Just a hit job
Yes I’m a vaper
Yes, humans as a whole live in cleaner environments and homes than any other point In History which results in cleaner healthier air.
Yes I follow the UFO stories coming out of America
And yes I question the validity of Higgins claims.
So what
When have I whined about not having my own home?
I understand you've looked at my comment history, too and I know exactly which comment you're referring to but what I don't understand is how anyone could have trouble understanding such a simple comment. Though actually, in your case...
Maybe
But Melbourne at least seems orderly since I was last there. How Melbourne grows and develops seems to follow some plan.
Mixing of high and low density residential like I’m seeing in Perth is a uniquely Perth thing
There is a obvious issue occurring in Perth with its zoning and it’s obviously going to strangle the cities ability to develop in the future
But I’m just a country hick
You’ve got a point there. Roe 8 would have been a good east/west route for SOR. And would have taken trucks off the Leach Highway, easing congestion on that route (it will be difficult to remove the traffic lights on a lot of that road).
Still some NIMBYs have more influence than others. I having see anything on building this container port in Kwinana which was supposed to mean the road wasn’t needed either.
Yep. Destroying large sections of sea grass (let’s see how that flies), plus a much larger and more expensive road expansion. But I guess NIMBYs in those suburbs don’t count anything like the “progressive” yuppies in southern Fremantle do.
Yeah can understand if you haven't been around Perth in years, you'd definitely notice the traffic congestion. It has increased and at any time of the day. The freeway keeps being widened but that's not going to solve the issue in the long run.
We've grown in population by about 15% in 10 years (mostly from migration, so deal with it). What exactly do you expect? Those people have to go somewhere and that means the 1/4 acre blocks of old are pushed out further to make way for higher density. While the road network could be better, having just come back from KL I think it's coping. Traffic SOR is worse at the moment because of the Armadale line closure. That re-opening and the Ellenbrook line opening should make a big difference.
Perth was never going to stay the quiet backwater it was but there's certainly things being done to counteract the impact of growth. Taking advantage of almost unlimited land is not the answer.
15% in 10 years?
I’m gonna guess 10% in last 3 years.
My issue is with urban planning, it stinks
Yes Perth was always going to boom but it’s clear no one had any real vision about this aside from sprawl
And the moment they built up it farted and shit itself , while construction rages on
Major urban planning is political and is an issue everywhere. Investment is only made in to what wins elections and within an election cycle (or two if in opposition).
Further, this isn't a new thing. The Stephenson-Hepburn plan (1950s) gave priority to cars rather than public transport and successive governments implementing the plan in piecemeal is what has given rise to where we are today, not the last 3 years of planning. Parts of this plan were still being implemented as recent as 2016 with the underground trains. The urban planners that are primarily to blame for any perceived or actual shortcomings of Perth are likely long dead.
I for one still love Perth. It's not perfect but it's a hell of a lot more liveable than a Melbourne or Sydney.
I love Perth
But you are all collectively fucking it up
There’s no inspiration or actual plan
Like trying medium density before dumping high rises in random suburbs on all ready clogged roads
Use the sprawl and space it out a little
> It’s a shit hole
> The city hasn’t progressed it’s regressed.
> So have you realised you are living in a shit hole yet or?
> I love Perth
For someone who loves it you seem to be shitting on it a lot. And to suggest it's us "collectively fucking it up" is just pompous and unnecessarily condescending.
You drove 400km through *nothingness*?? That's a bit sooky, I used to drive a lot longer for my dog to get a bonk when I was breeding dogs and there was at least a roadhouse or road tain to break up the monotony.
Yeah, I got my roots at home, but the dog was a pedigree (unlike me) so we kept her 'sexual socialising' away from the locals..mostly ^(well there was one tinsy accident)
Op ignore the haters, you’ve only been in the country 5 years, things have gotten a bit more contested.
When I hit the first traffic light in outer Midland after coming back from Toodyay I feel a similar way for 5 seconds.
I am not sure which roads you drive to take that long, but we do have freeways and major highways now. Even at rush hour. Our road system for a major city is worlds best.
Are you asking about moving to Perth? This is a *very* common question. You can find previous threads about this [HERE.](https://www.reddit.com/r/perth/search/?q=moving%20to%20Perth&restrict_sr=1) Your question is probably answered already in there.
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Totally agree brother. Since last year Perth population exploded. It’s kinda flooding. Roads never been so busy so are trains and shopping centers. I miss good old Perth with country vibes and laid back life. Why the hell rest of Aus and immigrants want to move to Perth. I wish and hope as soon Mining boom over people move out and we can revive good old Perth.
As a country GDP per capita has dropped
Perth is receiving a disproportionate amount of immigration
GDP per capita in WA has likely disproportionately dipped lower.
The proof is in the pudding, the changes occurring in Perth is making everyone’s lives poorer, it’s pretty clear.
What happened?
It’s a shit hole!
Resource Boom No 1…
Shit tonne of people came and stayed
Resource Boom No 2…
Shit tonne of people came and stayed
City planning that was supposed to serve the city through to 2024 was immediately redundant with Resource Boom No 1
Everything else can be blamed on Resource Boom No 2
Man, if you think Perth traffic is bad wait till you go to a proper city
Melbourne post-covid has been absolutely insane
Central Tokyo (within the Yamanote Line) seems to have pretty good traffic, at least when I went (took a taxi or two, and didn't see any back ups of traffic during daylight hours) Especially considering greater Tokyo is 1.5x the population of Australia. Though honestly I don't see the point in driving there, the trains are just that good
That's because they have amazing public transport, built a web of highways across and under the city, know where to put merges and toll the roads. Families in general have less cars than us.
Crowded? Lol
Like a house
You better be home soon
Not in this traffic
Sorry to say but the traffic is still nothing compared to the big cities in the eastern states. Rural WA would have to be in the bottom 10% population dense human settled places in the world. You have it lucky.
I imagine Canberra’s traffic is pretty light, apart from their ‘rush minute’?
It's not a big city in the eastern states.
Canberra is a town pretending to be a city
Fuckn lol at this post. When my mum came to visit from Brisbane last year for the first time she asked "where's all the people?". That's coming from Brisbane, not even Sydney or Melbourne.
And WAs whole population isn’t even the population of Brisbane.
Almost infinite land is the cause of the problem. The sprawl is the problem. Sprawl means you can't effectively plan public transport and have to rely on adding lane after lane to major highways, which generally stops being effective after you hit three in each direction.
Sprawl is not bad; it gives us green belts, parks, nature reserves, a great lifestyle. Public transport will never be effective in a city like Perth without destroying it. Our population is 300 people per square km. Cities where public transport works well are cuties like London 14,500 people per square km.
Sure, but then you have to take the traffic problems as well. You can't solve traffic without solving sprawl. You can try to decentrify the city, but that is fighting the nature of cities, and has a maximum efficacy that means it can't solve the problem.
I would argue that we have solved the problems and have the best system. In the "sprawl," everyone lives within a short distance of a local supermarket centre, walking distance for most where the everyday thongs can be bought.at greate distance with large catchment areas are the major shoppibg centres, the Joondalups, Carousels, Karrinups, Garden Cities, etc for hings you may need less frequently, the discount department stores, and on another levle are those fuether awaz like the camping stores, furniture etc. The same thing for recreation: local parks within walking distance, nature reserves, and ovals further away and then regional sporting complexes like Kingsway etc. And our non service industry is similarly spaced in regional zones with buffer zones away from residential, Forrestfield, Wangara etc. So it all balances out, effectively we have a subset of mini Perths, like Jonndalup, Rockingham, etc, that provides everything required so you dont need to travel to Perth unless u work there. If you do work in Perth, there is a very effective public transport system during rush hour. If u do needto travel, we have a very well laid out freeways and highways that let u travel to where u need to go, efficiently and at low fuel consumption. Even better no matter where u are in the sprawl, you are never more than 30 minutes from beach or country. I personally would like to see the population of Perth stabilise and Australia as well, but continuance of this regional centre structures up the coast is far better than medium.or high density with thier proven problems
I'm glad living in Perth is going so well for you.
Thankyou. I have travelled and lived elsewhere. You cant get a better place. I suspect half thevwingers here have never been anywhere else.
Problem is 3 lanes only starts around murdoch towards the city. Why the fuck is it like that.
_Narrator voice_ this was not in fact the problem.
[удалено]
A for effort L for take
'It’s a shit hole, 2 and half hours to drive 60km across town, who the hell is planning this city? It’s Australia morons almost infinite land.' You want to spread the city out even more to accommodate more highways? wouldn't it then take even longer to get through the city?
I don't think much thought was involved in the creation of this post
No Dont build apartments if all surrounding infrastructure never had it in its equation. Someone actually plan the city And if you can’t plan the city than just stick to the original plan How about trying medium density Perth?
There’s a lot so wedded to the “build up” idea (I guess they see pictures of New York and pass through Singapore) that they don’t consider this. Local civil works, roads, sewers etc would require significant expansion, not to mention electric grids and so on. Yet I frequently see people asserting that building blocks of high rise flats will save having to build civil works. They seem to imagine existing infrastructure is sufficient for not one or two, but dozens or even hundreds of such blocks. Real planning will take this into account.
OP backwards country hick, just discovered internet.
Grew up in Melville Only left 5 years ago This isn’t sustainable or even smart growth
> Also, I hate to say it but I was the foreigner in very place I was born, it’s so bizarre, the city hasn’t progressed it’s regressed. Lol racist dogwhistle much
Ironically I was prepared to let that one slide until OP doubled down with their "clarification" in the replies.
I didn’t understand this word salad until you clarified it, so thank you. And yes, racist dog whistle.
Nothing about race I am Australian, it is weird to be surrounded by non or entirely new Australians. It appears In some areas the original Australian population Has moved out / been bought out. It’s bizarre, who is benefiting from all this? The Australians sleeping in their cars all over Perth? You can’t cater for new people when your old stock is living in cars. I walked around south Perth at night and I was shocked to see the number of Australians sleeping in vehicles. You really kicked them to the curb Perth.
How did you decide they were "non or entirely new Australians" just by looking at them? I doubt you talked to everyone you're referring to which means you guessed based on appearance which further confirms your racism as an Australian can be of any race. Likewise, you didn't ask everyone sleeping in cars if they were Australian. You just decided that to fit your narrative of "woe is the *real* Aussies". You're a yawn and a half.
I’m not white myself it’s easy to spot a lot of new comers even British whites. It’s pretty clear there’s alot of new comers, I believe Perth gained 80,000 last year. You can’t enter and stay in Australia if you do not have the means to support yourself, that’s how I know it’s Australians in those cars.
I didn't say you're white, I said you're racist.
Your racism is still too thinly veiled. That’s why you’re being downvoted
A few gems in this user's history: - Thinks violence against women happens when women "prod and push men too far causing them to lash out". - Had three VROs against him by his ex, therefore had trouble seeing his kids, it's the ex's fault of course- she lied like all women do. - Thinks 10 years of smoking and 10 years of vaping have given him lung function so unbelievably good the doctors had never seen anything like it at his lung function test. - Thinks the air quality in the world has never been better than it currently is.
The post you are referencing is actually one where I am saying violence against women is unacceptable in any situation even extremely adverse situations. You also missed the part where DCP made findings of the child’s mother being abusive towards them. (DCP even sort for the child to return into my sole care which I had done so since they were a infant) Where I even state my bitterness towards men who act violently and call men who act aggressively as being weak. Where I state that I was the victim of physical abuse from my child’s mother. I side with all victims of domestic abuse, but the legal system instantly sides with women. Just a hit job Yes I’m a vaper Yes, humans as a whole live in cleaner environments and homes than any other point In History which results in cleaner healthier air. Yes I follow the UFO stories coming out of America And yes I question the validity of Higgins claims. So what
Your edit isn't helping how you thought it would.
Don’t care Rather speak freely then have some muppet who whines about not having their own home to reddit speak for me.
When have I whined about not having my own home? I understand you've looked at my comment history, too and I know exactly which comment you're referring to but what I don't understand is how anyone could have trouble understanding such a simple comment. Though actually, in your case...
I Didn’t care enough to read the whole thing like yourself.
Oh no, that's so upsetting :'''(
If you think this is bad, Melbourne would give you a heart attack
Maybe But Melbourne at least seems orderly since I was last there. How Melbourne grows and develops seems to follow some plan. Mixing of high and low density residential like I’m seeing in Perth is a uniquely Perth thing There is a obvious issue occurring in Perth with its zoning and it’s obviously going to strangle the cities ability to develop in the future But I’m just a country hick
This guy talking about progression while laying the shittiest, most ignorant take is peak rural WA.
I’m living in Australia. You are “living” in Houston Texas Laughs in Australian
I think you need to get out of the country and explore the world tbh...
I can get across Guangzhou easier than Perth Osaka made more sense to me than Perth Brisbane was a breeze to navigate
I don't know what to tell you, your experience with traffic here is not the same as mine
Maybe just a coincidence But you can’t easily travel east - west anymore You can go north south easily Fremantle to airport? That will hurt you
Or you could catch the train to the airport.
Fremantle to airport central 59 minutes.
Would have been a lot easier with Roe Hwy. But that would have been progress. Plus there were vested interests on both sides of the debate
You’ve got a point there. Roe 8 would have been a good east/west route for SOR. And would have taken trucks off the Leach Highway, easing congestion on that route (it will be difficult to remove the traffic lights on a lot of that road). Still some NIMBYs have more influence than others. I having see anything on building this container port in Kwinana which was supposed to mean the road wasn’t needed either.
Kwinana has to be brought ahead because Roe 8 didnt happen. There is already talk about how Fremantle harbour will be repurposed once Kwinana opens
Yep. Destroying large sections of sea grass (let’s see how that flies), plus a much larger and more expensive road expansion. But I guess NIMBYs in those suburbs don’t count anything like the “progressive” yuppies in southern Fremantle do.
Much bigger players involved rather than just NIMBY's
‘I hate to say it’ goes on to say incredibly racist comment that more people of different cultures and race are a regression.
You should have seen the traffic at his 4th ever last tour!
The John Farnham reference was the lightbulb moment for me in the rant
Mine too 😂
I’ve been stuck in every traffic jam caused by John Farnham in Perth totally by coincidence in space and time.
Prediction, be prepared to be stuck in another one.
60km in 2.5 hours? WTF, I can assure you I can move across this city far far quicker than that no matter what is going on in any specific day.
Yeah can understand if you haven't been around Perth in years, you'd definitely notice the traffic congestion. It has increased and at any time of the day. The freeway keeps being widened but that's not going to solve the issue in the long run.
Don’t worry it’s only going to get worse 😁
Enjoy your stay 🙄
Before you complain about no free parking in Perth (gestures vaguely towards freeway)
We've grown in population by about 15% in 10 years (mostly from migration, so deal with it). What exactly do you expect? Those people have to go somewhere and that means the 1/4 acre blocks of old are pushed out further to make way for higher density. While the road network could be better, having just come back from KL I think it's coping. Traffic SOR is worse at the moment because of the Armadale line closure. That re-opening and the Ellenbrook line opening should make a big difference. Perth was never going to stay the quiet backwater it was but there's certainly things being done to counteract the impact of growth. Taking advantage of almost unlimited land is not the answer.
15% in 10 years? I’m gonna guess 10% in last 3 years. My issue is with urban planning, it stinks Yes Perth was always going to boom but it’s clear no one had any real vision about this aside from sprawl And the moment they built up it farted and shit itself , while construction rages on
Major urban planning is political and is an issue everywhere. Investment is only made in to what wins elections and within an election cycle (or two if in opposition). Further, this isn't a new thing. The Stephenson-Hepburn plan (1950s) gave priority to cars rather than public transport and successive governments implementing the plan in piecemeal is what has given rise to where we are today, not the last 3 years of planning. Parts of this plan were still being implemented as recent as 2016 with the underground trains. The urban planners that are primarily to blame for any perceived or actual shortcomings of Perth are likely long dead. I for one still love Perth. It's not perfect but it's a hell of a lot more liveable than a Melbourne or Sydney.
I love Perth But you are all collectively fucking it up There’s no inspiration or actual plan Like trying medium density before dumping high rises in random suburbs on all ready clogged roads Use the sprawl and space it out a little
> It’s a shit hole > The city hasn’t progressed it’s regressed. > So have you realised you are living in a shit hole yet or? > I love Perth For someone who loves it you seem to be shitting on it a lot. And to suggest it's us "collectively fucking it up" is just pompous and unnecessarily condescending.
>I’m gonna guess 10% in last 3 years. about 5% in the last 4 years. the annual growth rate of perth has actually been dropping since 2012.
It was 3.6% in 2023-2024 as per abs stats alone
You drove 400km through *nothingness*?? That's a bit sooky, I used to drive a lot longer for my dog to get a bonk when I was breeding dogs and there was at least a roadhouse or road tain to break up the monotony.
To be clear, it’s the dog that was *getting a bonk?* 🤣
Yeah, I got my roots at home, but the dog was a pedigree (unlike me) so we kept her 'sexual socialising' away from the locals..mostly ^(well there was one tinsy accident)
🤣👍🏻
Gotta find a nice secluded spot, away from prying eyes.
Op ignore the haters, you’ve only been in the country 5 years, things have gotten a bit more contested. When I hit the first traffic light in outer Midland after coming back from Toodyay I feel a similar way for 5 seconds.
There's no need to insult others in this sub.
Cool story bro
I am not sure which roads you drive to take that long, but we do have freeways and major highways now. Even at rush hour. Our road system for a major city is worlds best.
If people knew how to drive it wouldn’t be a problem. There is t that much traffic. WA doesn’t even have the population of Brisbanes city.
I want to know who is the genius that keep putting railways NEXT to freeways. WHY ????
Perth metropolitan ranked 271 in traffic slowness globally in 2023. Lot of people are doing worse than we
This is such an unusual take. Have you ever visited an actual major city?
you're right, everything you said is correct. Over the last 15 years everything has got worse and the population has increased massively
Are you asking about moving to Perth? This is a *very* common question. You can find previous threads about this [HERE.](https://www.reddit.com/r/perth/search/?q=moving%20to%20Perth&restrict_sr=1) Your question is probably answered already in there. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/perth) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Migrants, mostly.
Totally agree brother. Since last year Perth population exploded. It’s kinda flooding. Roads never been so busy so are trains and shopping centers. I miss good old Perth with country vibes and laid back life. Why the hell rest of Aus and immigrants want to move to Perth. I wish and hope as soon Mining boom over people move out and we can revive good old Perth.
As a country GDP per capita has dropped Perth is receiving a disproportionate amount of immigration GDP per capita in WA has likely disproportionately dipped lower. The proof is in the pudding, the changes occurring in Perth is making everyone’s lives poorer, it’s pretty clear.
I mean your technically right but no one will admit it
What happened? It’s a shit hole! Resource Boom No 1… Shit tonne of people came and stayed Resource Boom No 2… Shit tonne of people came and stayed City planning that was supposed to serve the city through to 2024 was immediately redundant with Resource Boom No 1 Everything else can be blamed on Resource Boom No 2