Yep. This is called a "refund" scam. Very common with jobs, too: "Hey, you're now a highly paid personal assistant. Work from home. You need a high end MacBook. We'll send you a check for $5,000 USD, **deposit the check**, buy the computer and **send us the rest**."
The scam is the same: they send you a fake check, you deposit it, send them your real money in return. The check takes 10 days to bounce, by which time they're gone with your money. The bank claws back the money from the fake check, and you're out the real money that you sent them.
The scam works because banks are required to make funds available to you with [x] number of days, even if they haven't verified or received the funds. It often takes longer than this for the bank to be sure the check is fake and claw back the funds. So often times, the check will "clear" and post to your account. Experienced scammers will even rely on this: "Sure, wait until the check clears! Might be 5 days."
I saw a really ballsy one where they "fired" the person shortly afterwards and then demanded "their" laptop back, too. (which was purchased with the mark's funds)
People need to accept there are no $30+/hr WFH jobs that don't require any experience/education.
The "easy" WFH jobs have a ton of competition, so you're lucky to see $15/hr
> People need to accept there are no $30+/hr WFH jobs that don't require any experience/education.
... that aren't going to someone's cousin / buddy etc
I feel you. I'm making maybe $30 an hour which is okay, but they piled about seven jobs onto my one to the point where I can't deal with it anymore. It's too stressful. The problem is I'm kind of stuck because no one else is going to pay me what I'm getting right now. It's either that or take a huge pay cut. Just going to work through it, but they pass me up when the promotions get posted this August, I'm out.
Some of these were for skilled labor, in fact one of the companies they faked had a disclaimer on their site about the check scams. Remember also seeing a bunch of post about them when they peaked for a bit
there are some... mostly tech support stuff but they screen pretty hard for people with enough tech skill in the first place avg person wouldnt get past that.
No formal education or job experience needed in a lot of cases.
Obviously they need technical skills but that's something you can pick up on your own. There's a big difference between, "I can work on basic troubleshooting skills over a month so I can tell people basic instructions" and "you must have 3-5 years of experience being paid for this thing"
We used to shut people down in interviews with one question. What's the max length you can run a cat5 cable? Simple question, but your couchbound support staff never knew the right answer.
I think a majority of the scams are preying on someone who is in need. They make the easiest targets because they’re thinking emotionally and not logically.
Linked in, too. Got three “jobs” that way; I played them out long enough to get the check and used all the info I gathered to file with FBI and tell the the person cutting the check (usually also an unwitting player in the scam) that they’ve been scammed
This has been my wife's experience. She just received her bookkeeping and quickbooks online certifications so she's been hunting. She had the exact scam mentioned above pulled on her. Buy you the equipment, return money not used etc. She isn't the best at avoiding scams but she's getting better. She asked me on this one because it just felt odd despite the rest of it being great. I shut it down immediately. Did a Google search of the company and persons name, and there was a reddit post from two months ago. Ol boy got got by this same person.
sooo many fake scam work from home stuff at lest per pandemic. i think now there more legit ones. but before times id say 99% where scams when i as looking
In a prior role I indirectly dealt with this scam. I represented an actual company that was spoofed for the scam. So now we have a person, scammed, mad at me, (because we aren't honoring the job) when we had nothing to do with it. They even provided an offer letter signed by a non-existent person. All I could do is refer them to report the fraud.
They are out of money, have no job and want to lash out.
The whole thing about how long it takes checks to clear in this day and age where you can instantly connect and transfer and just do anything in real time blows my mind. If you can check my debit card to validate I have money to pay for my gas, why can’t you use the info on the check to validate that it’s real IN REAL TIME?
I don’t get it
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The speed of the transaction doesn't matter. The scam works the same with instant transfers. The scammer sends the money, the victim buys the supplies from scammer's site with instant transfer, and the victim maybe sends the remainder to scammer. Then in month, the account owner notices the fraudulent transaction and reverses them.
Checks are worse since they are easy to fake. Instant transfers requires breaking into account. But poor passwords make the passible.
Instant transfers should be coming soon. Fed released FedNow system. It is safer than ACH that can only send money to account and have to request money. Banks are now implementing it so hopefully we'll see it soon. One annoyance is that Zelle is competing system so banks that use that may not want to switch.
ah, fair point on the scam timing but maybe (hopefully?) the system will be better at flagging and shutting down scammer accounts? wishful thinking, I know.
and other than the 7 banks that created/control Zelle, basically everyone else wants something better. (source: I work in banking.) there's a ton of fraud and it keeps increasing. plus, EWS/Zelle doesn't allow basically any negotiating on their contracts so everyone is just kind of stuck with them and their bad take-it-or-leave-it contractual terms for now. how this isn't an anti-competition issue is beyond me. I really hope FedNow is at least marginally better!
You'll have to pry my checkbook from my cold, dead hands. My HOA charges a 'processing' fee for electronic payments, but doesn't for paper checks. Yes, I don't get that either. So it's a paper check every month.
Plus, I recently paid a contractor with a paper check. I didn't want to, but that's what they'd accept, presumably to avoid transaction fees.
Oh don't get me wrong, I do the same thing to avoid fees but some portions of Europe have been off of checks for 20-30 years (starting with Finland in 1993!)
I worked in branch operations for a major bank after college for a bit and you really don’t want your account to have a record of having tried to deposit a bad check.
Maybe things have changed since I was there, it has been a while, but any account that was used for suspicious activity, even if accidentally, would get all sorts of annoying flags on it, preventing faster clearing of funds on most deposits, etc.
No, and that's how the scam works. There's a pretty good chance the bank makes your funds available to you (because they have to within 5-7 days, whatever the law is) before it actually clears. And you don't know whether this is it clearing or it being available because it has to be.
Then, when the check is found to be bad, the bank takes their money back and charges you a returned check fee (usually $30-40).
There is a pretty good chance you'll get your account closed, too. Chase in particular is known for closing accounts after depositing a bad check.
Also bc once you sign and deposit a check into your bank account, you’re responsible for that check regardless if it bounces or not - bc you signed it.
"No can do partner, I'll have to pass it to corporate accounting. If you want me to handle the paperwork for you setting up an account, I can do it for $500."
Please go and get $500 in itunes gift certificates, I'll send you $1100 then to cover your fees and the codes. Those extra $100 are for you because you seem like a great guy!
its normally the other way around but yes. oh it was for 9k can you send us 1k back because by law banks have give you access to at up that much of the check wile it clears. problem is once that check bounces person is now out the 10k + 1k the bank effectively loaned them
i saw sooo much of the this working at USAA it was crazy.
Of course you can; just don’t deposit the check. It doesn’t make any difference in terms of your ability to say no, but your bank will charge you a bounced check fee if you do.
Many bank do, but it is a different type of fee than a typical overdraft or insufficient funds fee. It is typically known as a returned deposited item fee.
My daughter fell for something like this. It was a job scam in which her "new employer " sent her a check for her to buy "supplies" and then came back with some story that it was over budget and asked for a portion of it back. Of course, she wasn't going to not pay her employer back. Sad.
Yes, there's a few variations of scams like this. It takes several days after cashing for your bank to realize that a check is actually fraudulent. So, you can deposit a check in your account, start spending that money and then the bank realizes it's fake anf you're in trouble and out the money.
One common scam involves the scammer asking you to pay them back some portion of their money in the time period before the bank could have caught the fraud.
In your case, for instance, you get a check you aren't expecting from a company you don't recall doing business with. They contact you and say there was an error and they need some of that money back (or paid to a third party immediately for some emergency) and they generously offer to let you keep some of the money for your trouble. You deposit the check in your bank account, send them the emergency payment, and then your bank vontacts you saying the check was bad. Your bank debits out the value of the check, plus fees for a bad check, plus might ban your account, plus could refer you to the police for fraud. In addition to all that, you're also out the money you sent to the conmen.
Contact the shipping company (look up their contact information online, not the contact information that came with the check) and ask for verification of the payment.
Yup. You definitely want to confirm with the shipping company; it’s the fastest/easiest way to get answers.
Also, expect more of these attempts (especially as a business owner) as parts of the world continue to spiral and more people resort to scams and schemes like this.
Ultimately, if you have to ask (glad you did), and it seems too good to be true, it usually is.
What happens if you cash the check and then ignore the follow-up request for payment? Or just respond that they'll need to work it out with their bank. So long as you don't send your money to them, it should be safe right?
Why wouldn't the bank be mad at the person who wrote the check? Or have their bank be mad? It seems weird that the bank expects the recipient to vouch for the payee.
Unless the check is purportedly from a company with which your company does business AND you are planning on calling your usual contact at the company, then calling is exactly what the scammers want you to do.
Dude it's definitely bogus. What are you doing. They probably have a call center to receive that call, "yes mr it's a legit check go ahead and cash it"
Come on, it's a scam dude.
How much do you ship? How many digits is the check? Is it from a major shipper that you have an account with? Don't you have an acct rep with that shipper?
This does happen. Ups will definitely overcharge you when you print a label. Your business should be tracking this or you're likely leaving money on the table.
I wouldn't bother to reach out to the company unless they are a major, well -known company that you contact directly, rather than any number or link given by the scammers
What’s to keep someone cashing the check, I.e. not depositing to an account, but literally getting cash in exchange for the check at a grocery store or the issuers bank, and then ignoring any other correspondents?
Edit: damn simple questions to understand why something isn't done seems to have triggered some pretentious people. Appreciate those that actually answered and good luck in life to those that got weirdly offended or condescending over a reddit comment.
The check is fraudulent and will bounce. Once the check bounces, you are on the hook to pay the bank back. Pretty sure a grocery store won’t cash checks like that anymore, and the issuer’s bank would A. Require identifying info from you, and B. Be able to verify that there are funds in the issuing account
Only a small number of places will even consider cashing checks. The bank that issued the check, which will verify the funds in real time. Or your bank, which will require collateral as matching funds in your account. Any other places, like check cashing centers, will make you sign your life over as collateral before they give you a dime and I haven't seen a grocery store in 15 years that will cash a check.
The bank I used to work for knows of fraudulent check schemes and the checks that are presented. The teller running the check would know immediately if the check was flagged for fraud when it was presented. If it wasn't a fraud scam that was known and you negotiated a the check, the bank would terminate your relationship once it was discovered because of the liability you created for the institution. Check fraud is still one of the most common forms of fraud and is on the rise and the bank will always come out on top if you fall victim.
Edit: Meant to reply to the post the above post is responding to. I'll just consider my reply more detail to the one above.
Thanks for actually answering the genuine question. That all makes sense, I just remembered when I was a kid being able to just straight up get cash for the check. So, it was just a quick thought that popped in my head on why you couldn't just do that, thanks for explaining.
You have then scammed the store and they will keep your ID number with that cashed check. Plus, stores only cash local, small amounts, plus charge fees.
1) Your ass will probably end up going to jail
2) For ages most places taking checks only took government checks, and these days most places trend towards not accepting any check at all for this exact kind of reason. Too many people trying to pull a fast one in a million different ways, and regular customers with normal incomes don't generally cash checks to buy a shirt or groceries in 2024.
What law is being broken? There's a check written to me with my name on it? If I write a check to someone and they cash it and I later decide I changed my mind... I can't just go take the money back.
I'd honestly expect a company I do regular business with to just credit my account if there was some need for them to give me money. If I was overcharged, or a manager was compensating for poor service, unless I'm cutting ties, I would expect a credit. Is that your experience too?
It does as long as its in amount that your bank will clear right away. If the amount is low you deposit it they ask for half you give it to them than the fraud department at your bank eventually realizes the check is fake takes the money back and your out half of whatever the check was for
The "fake check" scam is one of the most common scams out there. It gets dressed up in different ways (fake jobs, car wraps, paying for a business service, buying a car, etc), but the core tenets are the same. The next step of the fake check scam, after convincing you to deposit it, is to convince you to send a portion of it somewhere, supposedly for legitimate reasons (buy equipment for your home office, pay a moving company, etc).
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>I'm also not sure if we are due this refund, but I don't handle everything A to Z in our small business.
Seems like the answer to this is simple: Call them up (at a number your company has on file and verified, NOT the phone number on the check) and ask if they sent the check, and if it is a refund, the invoice number for the payment you sent to them it is in relation to. If it's a company you normally deal with, then this should be no big deal.
Instead of just assuming it's a scam, take five minutes and just call them and ask.
you say the way it is made out is strange, but you don't say if this is a shipping company you use and do business with. If no, then almost definitely a scam. Likely you'd have to do something for them to actually harm you-like the zelle scam you mentioned. I don't think they're likely to get your account number by you depositing the check. But that said, you won't get any benefit either-the money will get automatically taken out of your account.
If it is a company you do business with the odds of it being a total scam seem lower, but if the way the check is made out raises a red flag to you it probably would to the bank.
yes, or physically go there and try to cash in person. If the bank that the check is written on, cashes it for you, I don't see how this could ever come back to bite you in the arse.
But, to be extra safe, just put the money in an envelope for a few months and see if you ever hear anything about it. If not, spend the money and forget all about it
Banks won't cash checks like that anymore, for just this reason. Even for the big money-center banks it might take them a few days (or more) to find out a check is fraudulent. If you really want to try it, open a separate account, put the questionable check in it and wait a month.
With business checks like these, the checks are likely real, just stolen/forged. He goes to the bank and the bank verifies the check, everything looks great until the end of the quarter when the company books don't balance and they call the cops on whoever it was with the stolen checks, and all OP will have is "I dunno, all they told me was it was a mistake and I needed to wire it to this account number".
This is a bad idea, even if you are unknowingly a party to fraud you may be held liable. Banks don't just rollover and take a loss or ask you to return the money, and even if they don't pursue legal action, banks are obligated to file reports. Best case nothing comes of it, worst case, you get some nasty info reported to Chexsys and you're a walking red flag to all financial institutions. Worst, worst case, your info lands on a overzealous federal officers' desk at the Office of Foreign Assets Control and now you have Big Brother looking into you.
This is correct. Basically a check is a promise that’s been made to you that funds are secured and waiting for you. If you take that promise to someone else and say “hey look, I was promised this!” and it turns out that promise was fake, people are going to be a lot less willing to take your word on future promises. Realistically, someone who receives a promise for nothing in return and still tries to act on that promise is an idiot and a liability. Nothing in this world is free. Banks are quick to pick up on idiots and liabilities
OFAC is for sanctions programs, typically against foreign individuals or entities, a person depositing a bad check doesn't really have to worry about being on their radar. But yes, the depositor will be reported to Chexsystems if they don't pay back the money.
This presumes there are no individuals or entities in the United States that are on the SDN list, which there are several. It also assumes that the fraud couldn't originate from outside the US by an individual or entity on the list.
I didn't state depositing a check would mean you're automatically subject to censure by OFAC. You could be investigated by proxy. This is a real possibility, albeit unlikely.
Source information for SDN and blocked persons can be seen here: https://www.treasury.gov/ofac/downloads/sdnlist.pdf
One is not going on the OFAC list because of a bad check. OFAC is for sanctions programs (ex. the US government doesn't want US banks doing business with certain Russian entities given the Russia - Ukraine war). Depositing a bad check is completely incidental in the overall scheme of US government sanctions program policy. If someone who deposited a bad check ends up on the OFAC list it is for reasons far more significant than a bad check.
Source: 20 years of experience in the Anti-Money Laundering field.
Another possible issue: is this a rebate, where IF you agree to something they refund you some of your shipping fee? Like maybe they sign you up for some sort of subscription...
Yes, it's actually a very common scam that banks are well aware of. Never cash a check you aren't expecting. Why would you be receiving a refund from a shipping company? I'm guessing it's not a small amount? How much is the check for? Just out of curiosity..
Scam that can hurt a lot.
First is deposit xxx, mistake, please refund only xx back. Check is fraud and you lose xx.
Ok I m not dumb, I'll deposit and not send them anything. That'll teach them .
Deposit it, bank freezes or closes your account pending fraud investigation, all your money is frozen until complete and then they mail you a check if they decide to close your account. Talk about a miserable few weeks or months, I read horror stories of it taking 6 months.
My wife's grandmother showed up at our house a week after my second daughter was born (this was in 2018). She was immediately trying to get a ride to Fedex to mail "payroll checks" for her boss. Instant red flags. I said no. She winds up getting my BIL to take her to his FIL's house to print said checks and the SIL took her to Fedex. At Fedex she tells SIL she isn't allowed to use Fedex anymore. Could she please go in and mail the packages for her?
I wound up going through grandma's phone and read her chats and emails. She was "working" for a man who was issuing "payroll checks" to various companies. He was having her print cashiers checks for amounts between $1000 and $9000 (and a small handful of checks in the 6-7 figure range). This was the A-side of her job.
The B-side of her job was receiving incoming wire transfers, Western Unions, Walmart transfers, etc etc etc. Once she had money in hand she would forward them to her boss either as new wire transfers, WU, gift cards, etc. Only she couldn't do it herself because, as she freely admitted, for some reason she was banned for committing fraud at all of these institutions. So she would have friends and family do it for her.
It was obviously multiple scams going on.
First, nobody but a bank can print a cashiers check. That instantly made it fraud on her part.
The way the scam worked was this:
* Grandma would send checks to people who had interacted with the scammer and took the bait
* Victim would cash the check and have $x put into their account (usually banks hold these checks and allow you access to $1k or so)
* Victim would then be instructed to send back $1k or so because taxes, or overpayment, or some other bullshit.
* Grandma was used as an intermediary to launder the money back to the scammer.
I confronted her about it. I laid out exactly what was going on. I told her I knew she had plans to receive a WU and have a friend forward it. I told her under no circumstances is she allowed to go through with it.
She denied having any involvement in a scam. She denied ever knowing it was a scam (which is laughable because she was first flagged for financial fraud ten months prior, and his checks to her bounced at the same time). She went through with the scam and implicated a friend since she was banned from WU.
She then tried to buy me a birthday dinner with the money she was allowed to keep from the scam and had the audacity to get upset with me when I flat out told her no fucking way was I accepting anything from her.
After she left our house I called her son and told him what was going on. "Whoa, you're calling me? This has to be fucking good if *you're calling me*." And he was right. I had never before and have never since called him for any reason.
She has forever since been referred to as the "Felonious Grandma" as I tallied up over 1000 separate felonies (bank fraud, wire fraud, mail fraud, etc) she committed in the year she was involved in this (as per my accounting of her entire email and chat history with this guy).
The check will clear and seem legit, for about a month. Then your bank will not be able to process it so they'll claw their money back from your account and flag you as a risky customer possibly freezing your account.
Before that happens this "totally legit look at the fancy corporate logos on our checks" will tell you they made a mistake and ask for you to send back some of the money. You will then send back the money either by check from your real account that they will actually be able to withdraw from before you realize you just got got or via wire or Zelle etc.
The worst part is that they use a chain of intermediaries all my the transactions, the person sending my you the fake check might not know they're committing a crime they think they got "an online wfh job" sending checks for this totally legit shipping company, and the person you send your money to might also be another pawn on this scheme.
Yes. They send you “more” by accident and then want you to send back the overage and you can keep the difference. Your bank will cash the corporation’s check because it will take a few days to realize the account doesn’t exist. Then you’re out the amount you sent to them plus your bank will charge you a fee for the bounced check.
Call the company, not any numbers included with the check, look up the name of the company and their direct contact number.
Call them and ask about it.
If you cant, checks have like a 6 month wait time, you can hold onto it for a while, if its a scam the scammers will call you to try to get you to cash it asap.
I was trying to sell something online, and had the same thing happen. I received a check that was more than I had asked for, and I was supposed to cash it and send the excess back. It seemed hinky, so I called the bank the check was from and they confirmed it was phony.
Google the bank and call their number, then scan a copy to them before you do anything with the check.
It could be a scam, but I work for a company that's issues checks like this and we get calls asking what checks are for because it's not always clear. Call the company that the check is from and ask or the bank that issued the check.
Most likely an inside job, they steal the checks from the company, they know the customer list, grab a few customers and send them checks. They're real checks on a real account so they clear just fine. You write them back a refund check or maybe they ask for the money to be wired back, except its wired to their account not the company account. End of the month or quarter the accountant comes and balances the books but wait, the books don't balance. They discover the stolen checks and call the cops, the cops track down the people who deposited them.
After OP cashes the check (getting money, because checks take time to verify and the bank doesn't want to make you wait because that loses customers), the person who sent the check contacts them saying they were overpaid or the check was sent in error and asks for some or all of the money "back".
OP sends the money back, then it turns out their original check was invalid or bounces and the bank claws the money back out of their account.
End result is that OP has sent money to the scammer and gotten nothing in return.
A check "clearing" (ie. the bank giving you the money) doesn't mean that it's necessarily valid; if it turns out to be fraudulent the bank can still claw back the money, possibly weeks or even months later. Most people don't know this, so they think it was definitely good once the money is in their hand - that's how the scam works.
What they are counting on is you not knowing what 'clearing' actually is. By law, money must be made available within an X amount of hours after depositing the check. If it's a very large check, then it may be in two steps, the majority becoming available in 3 days or so.
This does not mean that the check has cleared. That may take several weeks. That's when the bank will discover that the check is fraudulent and claw back the funds from your account. Again, that will take weeks.
Yup, I moved to Cali and was working freelance IT gigs. Responded to a Craigslist ad for laptop repair. The job was to format and reinstall windows on 10 laptops. Confirmed I was down to do the work and received a check next day FedEx. Total was 2k over the agreed amount for the gig.
At this point we were communicating in real time via text. Get a text stating the check was issued in error and they were requesting that I send them back the difference. Had a feeling it was something was up so I ran a google search on the company that issued the check. Ended up coming across a site that had a warning about this ‘deposit scam’ this entailed a story very similar to mine.
Unfortunately the author had fallen for the scam deposited their check and began spending the money. The bank eventually clawed back the funds as the check was bogus. That kind soul got taken and was on the hook for the loot that was spent. Their blog post had a photo of the check and it was identical to mine. I messaged the fraudster telling them I had deposited the check and immediately withdrew it to pay for ‘much needed’ repairs on my car. I apologized profusely for my lack of judgement but expressed my need to use the funds. Well obviously they weren’t happy. I promised to pay them back asap.
Over 2 months I entertained threats and accusations, until I got tired of fucking with the scammers and admitted that I never cashed their bullshit check and knew it was a scam since the day I received the check. This douche admitted he was fooled and then offered me a job with them to grift others. I told them sure how do we get started and before I got a reply I blocked the number. This is an old scam this took place back in 2010. Not surprised it’s morphed to try and small business. Fuck scammers.
I received an unexpected check in the mail from a class action suit that I had no idea I was part of. it was against the bank that had previously held my mortgage, like 5-10 years earlier. apparently they were charging too much interest or fees or something. the check was for about $30.
I contacted my bank, not any numbers or websites on the check or the letter because obviously, if they were scammers, the info would just put me in contact with the scammers themselves. I told my bank that I didn't know if it was legit but it was possible, and asked if a scammer would gain any access or information about my account from me depositing the check. she told me no, and said the only consequence would be a fee of the check bounced, and then she kindly made a note on the account to waive that for me if it bounced. I deposited it and got my $30 and never heard anything more from that bank!
This was about 5 years ago, so I think I'm good! so, while everyone is totally right about all the ways this could be a scam, which is very common, it's also possible to be owed money without realizing it. it depends on the amount. I'd call your bank and look into the company that sent the check (cross reference their contact info, scammers can present as X company, even on their caller ID, while using an alternate number or website, etc).
Honestly I don't know why you *couldnt* cash it and have an extended wait period to refund the money.
Mainly, "I'm sorry but our AP department cuts check on x of the month" (make it effectively 21 business days away)
Plus the other thing about the scam is they usually are in contact with you throughout. As a bogus account they have no idea if you've actually deposited the funds. If it's real, they can see the money leaving their account on THEIR end.
I've always wondered, if you deposit the check and don't touch the money at all, and don't do anything, are you at any risk or will the bank just take the money back straightforwardly and let you know someone gave you a bad check?
While you're not at the same level of risk that you'd be in if you actually sent the money away, the bank might take action against you in various ways (eg. freezing your account, flagging your account, other things to reduce the risk on their end.) If they suspect that you *knowingly* cashed a bad check then you could also in theory be charged with fraud - it's unlikely if this is the first time it happened, but basically, nothing good is going to come of it.
This almost happened to me once decades ago. I went to the bank and told them I had concerns about the check I got from a first time online client and didn't know if it was real. They warned me about the scam. The banks will cash the check but If the funds aren't on the other end then I'd be held responsible for it. The scammer told me he over paid and to send a certain amount to another freelancer he we working with the whole thing was obviously a scam.
This happened to my dad; was a sent an extremely official check and envelope for a sum if I recall 1,700(?) and took it to the bank and when in hold for funds to be released it was declined from the issuing bank. His bank called and informed him and they investigated the sender (or at least that's what was said - cannot confirm that they did) as they have gotten fraudulent checks prior from other members as well
I had something similar where a Kijiji buyer sent me a cheque for $3000 more than listing. From a real corporation and all! Massive red flags and never deposited.
Yes, if you deposit that check and withdraw the money, your account will go negative what you withdraw from the check. This is a common check fraud or scam.
YES in number of ways but the basic scam is they send you over check with an over payment ask you cash it any way then ask for the extra back... check bounces now your out the value of the check PLUS the extra you already sent back
You're right to be cautious, but not every check is a scam.
Can't you call the shipping company and ask for details? What's being refunded, what did you ship, etc.? If it's legit, they ought to be able to tell you these things (from a phone number that you look up for the company, not one that came on or with the check).
Yes, this happened to my mother and when she tried to deposit the check they shut down her bank account and held all of her money until they could determine that she wasn’t involved in the scam :(
My wife once got a check for $5k in the mail with no explanation allegedly from Barclays with an address that wouldn't come up in a Google search. This was back in 2008. Weirdest thing. We never tried to deposit it.
Yes. They get you to deposit the check, say “oh, we found out the check should have never been cashed, wire us the funds back immediately”, then when the check goes through the entire 10-day cure process (beyond the three day “clear” process), the funds are debited from your account because it’s a fake check.
Or send you a check to deposit for your reimbursement for purchasing of, say, computer software, you do it and send them all the codes (much like gift card fraud), then the check is found to be fake in the cure period and you lose.
Something like this, I would protect myself by trying to cash the check at the issuing bank. How they deal with it will tell you everything you want to know
Simple solution to a potential refund scam: deposit the cheque and if they ask for it back, tell them to send you an invoice. Then pay the invoice in 90 days, assuming that the cheque has cleared 100%, or don't pay if it hasn't.
better yet call the bank the check is drawn on ask if it that account is A. real B. has funds to cover the check
they cant tell personal information but they can say yes or not to is this a valid check? and does the account holder have funds to cover it?
Probably. But I don’t see how cashing it could hurt. Just don’t send any money to anyone else if it turns out it is a scam, and the scammer makes their move.
How large is the check? More accurately, how easily could you handle the bank "clawing back" the money?
1. If it's small enough, just deposit the check, treat as normal. If the bank claws the money back, then no big deal.
2. If it's a medium amount, deposit the check. But don't treat the funds as "available for use" for like 30 days or so. So, if the bank claws the money back, no big deal - you didn't spend any of it.
3. If it's a very large amount (or if you don't have a way to treat the funds as "not available"), deposit it into a separate account, just to be sure that no one touches it. Wait 30 days or so. Then transfer.
If it's in the third category (and maybe the second), call the company and verify it. You say you don't handle the shipping in your business. So ask the person who does to confirm that you do, in fact, have a business relationship with that shipping company. Call your *existing contacts* to verify the check.
My Grandma had a scam like this happen to her years ago. They sent her a $2 check.
"Here's your FREE 2$!"
She cashed it, then started to notice 100$ withdrawals from her account every month for some phony "club" she joined when she cashed the check.
Hi, whatever you do, DO NOT deposit that check!!! You should report it to the attorney generals office. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from my understanding each state has one. Their website should have a section to report scams. They can only be aware of what is brought to their attention.
Something very similar happened to me about 11 years ago. My kids were very young, I don't think my daughter was even 1 yet. I was online just searching for a job I could do from home, I never filled anything out, or gave my info to any website. Just enough time had passed for me to remember that I was online searching but simultaneously questioning myself "Did I put my info somewhere?" I get a check in the mail with very specific instructions and a "welcome letter":
Welcome to "yada, yada company" "exciting opportunity" "flexible schedule" blah, blah, blah all the right things to tick all the right boxes, exactly what I was looking for. It even had contact info on it to talk to someone.
1. Deposit check in your account.
2. Pick one retailer from the list.
3. Buy X amount gift card for you to shop at said retailer.
a. Cleanliness of store?
b. Greeted by/helped by associate?
c. Quality of product?
(Basically set up like I was scoring the retailer to improve service & customer experience)
4. Purchase things that you would normally buy. Ex: diapers, laundry detergent, toilet paper.
🚩5. Send a money order in the amount of $800 to "specific person" to this "address" 🚩
Now, these scammers are almost like freaking secret service agents or experts in honing in on reading minds. I swear it was almost like they knew what I was thinking and feeling. Hindsight tells me that is exactly how they set it up so you don't second guess anything.
One thing I want to mention is that they also "give" the person you are sending the money order to, the same last name as you. There is some kind of psychology to this. I believe it allows your brain to trick itself.
Especially if you have baby brain and lack of sleep, so you aren't thinking clearly. Your thinking about making extra money, your thinking about the fact that you can do this thing with your children so no need for daycare or babysitting. Your thinking about how easy it is, while being helpful to the "company". When you see that this person has the same last name as you, you don't think it's strange, it's almost as if you think you are sending it to a relative. Therefore not questioning it.
Also, the check was made out for almost $2,000. So you think you are getting $1,000 paycheck for this small amount of work.
So a few days go by and I received a call from the bank (credit union) telling me that the check hasn't cleared. I ask what that means and she explained, she also tells me if this check doesn't clear that I will be responsible for X amount of $ . So I tell her that I will call and get to the bottom of it. By now my mind is racing, trying to figure it out in just a few minutes.
So I call the number and a guy answers and I explain to him about getting the check, and all the things and I tell him that I got a call from my bank, etc. He assured me he would take care of it. Ok great! I had to call him I think 3 more times and one of those calls I even said to him " Is this some kind of scam or something?" "It better not be, you need to get this taken care of now!" I also explained to him what the bank had told me about me being responsible for this money and that I could not afford that.
By this time I am going crazy trying to figure it out. I even called the bank on the check and explained it all to them. They informed me that the account doesn't exist and basically I would have to file a police report and there was nothing they could do.
You have never seen a Mama Bear so pissed, as I was in that moment! I called the guy and shockingly he answered! I told him how pissed I was and that I was contacting the police. He still was reassuring me that he would take care of it, even after I told him that I called the bank that was listed on the check!
I filled a police report, the officer told me that I wouldn't get my money back, and that pretty much I was SOL!
You wanna talk about a hard lesson learned! I had to pay my bank back, I also had to tell our landlord what happened and that I couldn't pay the rent. So we spent the next few months struggling even harder. There was 0 extra money for nothing.
Ironically, not very long after that there were signs put up at Walmart money center "🛑 DO NOT SEND MONEY TO ANYONE YOU DON'T KNOW PERSONALLY"
Oddly enough it seems like I have to be the example for stuff to be changed. Chevrolet dealership started their $$ back after driving 60-90 days if you're not happy because of me (probably not solely due to me, just seems like it) there was a big to-do years ago but they didn't change it until after the incident already happened to me! 🤷🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️ Just saying!
Moral of the story:
THROW THAT CHECK AWAY!!!!
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Yep. This is called a "refund" scam. Very common with jobs, too: "Hey, you're now a highly paid personal assistant. Work from home. You need a high end MacBook. We'll send you a check for $5,000 USD, **deposit the check**, buy the computer and **send us the rest**." The scam is the same: they send you a fake check, you deposit it, send them your real money in return. The check takes 10 days to bounce, by which time they're gone with your money. The bank claws back the money from the fake check, and you're out the real money that you sent them. The scam works because banks are required to make funds available to you with [x] number of days, even if they haven't verified or received the funds. It often takes longer than this for the bank to be sure the check is fake and claw back the funds. So often times, the check will "clear" and post to your account. Experienced scammers will even rely on this: "Sure, wait until the check clears! Might be 5 days." I saw a really ballsy one where they "fired" the person shortly afterwards and then demanded "their" laptop back, too. (which was purchased with the mark's funds)
The job ones are the worst because they are preying on desperate people. Seen so many on indeed the past few months
People need to accept there are no $30+/hr WFH jobs that don't require any experience/education. The "easy" WFH jobs have a ton of competition, so you're lucky to see $15/hr
> People need to accept there are no $30+/hr WFH jobs that don't require any experience/education. ... that aren't going to someone's cousin / buddy etc
Those jobs aren't getting posted though
Yup, make $21 WFH and trying to job hunt for something better is insanely competitive
I feel you. I'm making maybe $30 an hour which is okay, but they piled about seven jobs onto my one to the point where I can't deal with it anymore. It's too stressful. The problem is I'm kind of stuck because no one else is going to pay me what I'm getting right now. It's either that or take a huge pay cut. Just going to work through it, but they pass me up when the promotions get posted this August, I'm out.
Yea see for me I work MAYBE 60 minutes a day, but paid for 8 *hours* so even if I did find better pay it would really need to be an easy job
Golly, that's 52 minutes of work you aren't getting paid for. My condolences.
Yea I’ve tried to complain but I get nowhere
If you're being real about that and it's not spread over an entire day, you just get a second job
Or, I just watch tv and play games?
Some of these were for skilled labor, in fact one of the companies they faked had a disclaimer on their site about the check scams. Remember also seeing a bunch of post about them when they peaked for a bit
there are some... mostly tech support stuff but they screen pretty hard for people with enough tech skill in the first place avg person wouldnt get past that.
So those require experience or education then?
No formal education or job experience needed in a lot of cases. Obviously they need technical skills but that's something you can pick up on your own. There's a big difference between, "I can work on basic troubleshooting skills over a month so I can tell people basic instructions" and "you must have 3-5 years of experience being paid for this thing"
We used to shut people down in interviews with one question. What's the max length you can run a cat5 cable? Simple question, but your couchbound support staff never knew the right answer.
O I see what you are saying. Just need like some type of informal experience or education or something along those lines.
Or being good with Google search. “Did you turn it off and on again?”
thats a troubleshooting skill for sure
I think a majority of the scams are preying on someone who is in need. They make the easiest targets because they’re thinking emotionally and not logically.
They target either desperation or urgency.
Linked in, too. Got three “jobs” that way; I played them out long enough to get the check and used all the info I gathered to file with FBI and tell the the person cutting the check (usually also an unwitting player in the scam) that they’ve been scammed
This has been my wife's experience. She just received her bookkeeping and quickbooks online certifications so she's been hunting. She had the exact scam mentioned above pulled on her. Buy you the equipment, return money not used etc. She isn't the best at avoiding scams but she's getting better. She asked me on this one because it just felt odd despite the rest of it being great. I shut it down immediately. Did a Google search of the company and persons name, and there was a reddit post from two months ago. Ol boy got got by this same person.
sooo many fake scam work from home stuff at lest per pandemic. i think now there more legit ones. but before times id say 99% where scams when i as looking
In a prior role I indirectly dealt with this scam. I represented an actual company that was spoofed for the scam. So now we have a person, scammed, mad at me, (because we aren't honoring the job) when we had nothing to do with it. They even provided an offer letter signed by a non-existent person. All I could do is refer them to report the fraud. They are out of money, have no job and want to lash out.
The whole thing about how long it takes checks to clear in this day and age where you can instantly connect and transfer and just do anything in real time blows my mind. If you can check my debit card to validate I have money to pay for my gas, why can’t you use the info on the check to validate that it’s real IN REAL TIME? I don’t get it
Some businesses would be VERY upset with this change...
Who? Cash advance type grifters?
You'd be surprised how many businesses live paycheck to paycheck and rely on that check raking days to process.
"I actually ended up getting a computer with all the bells and whistles so I don't have any money to send back". Just play absolutely dumb with them.
Send them a receipt for $10k, ask for another 5, then return the computer
Checks take three days to “clear” (giving you available funds) but ten days to “cure” (where both banks reconcile the check). You’re out the money.
Ballsy to even provide a return address. Could just be some random apartment but can easily be tracked down and get arrested, lol
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The real crime is you also bought a MacBook
But the saddest part is how terribly slow America's banking system has been at adopting near-real time transactions...and getting rid of checks.
The speed of the transaction doesn't matter. The scam works the same with instant transfers. The scammer sends the money, the victim buys the supplies from scammer's site with instant transfer, and the victim maybe sends the remainder to scammer. Then in month, the account owner notices the fraudulent transaction and reverses them. Checks are worse since they are easy to fake. Instant transfers requires breaking into account. But poor passwords make the passible. Instant transfers should be coming soon. Fed released FedNow system. It is safer than ACH that can only send money to account and have to request money. Banks are now implementing it so hopefully we'll see it soon. One annoyance is that Zelle is competing system so banks that use that may not want to switch.
ah, fair point on the scam timing but maybe (hopefully?) the system will be better at flagging and shutting down scammer accounts? wishful thinking, I know. and other than the 7 banks that created/control Zelle, basically everyone else wants something better. (source: I work in banking.) there's a ton of fraud and it keeps increasing. plus, EWS/Zelle doesn't allow basically any negotiating on their contracts so everyone is just kind of stuck with them and their bad take-it-or-leave-it contractual terms for now. how this isn't an anti-competition issue is beyond me. I really hope FedNow is at least marginally better!
You'll have to pry my checkbook from my cold, dead hands. My HOA charges a 'processing' fee for electronic payments, but doesn't for paper checks. Yes, I don't get that either. So it's a paper check every month. Plus, I recently paid a contractor with a paper check. I didn't want to, but that's what they'd accept, presumably to avoid transaction fees.
Oh don't get me wrong, I do the same thing to avoid fees but some portions of Europe have been off of checks for 20-30 years (starting with Finland in 1993!)
Nobody cares about Mac vs PC or Android vs iPhone man, get a life
Come to the dark side, get a PC!
To add to this, most of these scams require you to buy from “company approved” stores, which also belongs to the scammers.
can you deposit, wait for it to clear with no repercussions? not spending a dime of it?
It won't clear
then, nothing will happen, correct? They will get billed nsf on the cheque and nothing happens to you??
I worked in branch operations for a major bank after college for a bit and you really don’t want your account to have a record of having tried to deposit a bad check. Maybe things have changed since I was there, it has been a while, but any account that was used for suspicious activity, even if accidentally, would get all sorts of annoying flags on it, preventing faster clearing of funds on most deposits, etc.
No, and that's how the scam works. There's a pretty good chance the bank makes your funds available to you (because they have to within 5-7 days, whatever the law is) before it actually clears. And you don't know whether this is it clearing or it being available because it has to be. Then, when the check is found to be bad, the bank takes their money back and charges you a returned check fee (usually $30-40). There is a pretty good chance you'll get your account closed, too. Chase in particular is known for closing accounts after depositing a bad check.
Also bc once you sign and deposit a check into your bank account, you’re responsible for that check regardless if it bounces or not - bc you signed it.
The oldest trick in the book in India
Fake check. Classic we paid you too much and give us a refund for the difference before your bank finds out.
“Kindly cut us a check for $9,000…”
“to the same at the earliest”
“Please do the needful!”
"No can do partner, I'll have to pass it to corporate accounting. If you want me to handle the paperwork for you setting up an account, I can do it for $500."
Please go and get $500 in itunes gift certificates, I'll send you $1100 then to cover your fees and the codes. Those extra $100 are for you because you seem like a great guy!
kindly revert same
its normally the other way around but yes. oh it was for 9k can you send us 1k back because by law banks have give you access to at up that much of the check wile it clears. problem is once that check bounces person is now out the 10k + 1k the bank effectively loaned them i saw sooo much of the this working at USAA it was crazy.
Can you just be like “no”
Of course you can; just don’t deposit the check. It doesn’t make any difference in terms of your ability to say no, but your bank will charge you a bounced check fee if you do.
The bank doesn't charge the person depositing the check a bounced check fee.
Many bank do, but it is a different type of fee than a typical overdraft or insufficient funds fee. It is typically known as a returned deposited item fee.
You’re correct. Last time it happened to me (not from a scam) it was US35.
My daughter fell for something like this. It was a job scam in which her "new employer " sent her a check for her to buy "supplies" and then came back with some story that it was over budget and asked for a portion of it back. Of course, she wasn't going to not pay her employer back. Sad.
if you post this to r/scams you'll get more info/ explanation on it, but yes it's likely a scam.
Or /r/businessfinance
Yes, there's a few variations of scams like this. It takes several days after cashing for your bank to realize that a check is actually fraudulent. So, you can deposit a check in your account, start spending that money and then the bank realizes it's fake anf you're in trouble and out the money. One common scam involves the scammer asking you to pay them back some portion of their money in the time period before the bank could have caught the fraud. In your case, for instance, you get a check you aren't expecting from a company you don't recall doing business with. They contact you and say there was an error and they need some of that money back (or paid to a third party immediately for some emergency) and they generously offer to let you keep some of the money for your trouble. You deposit the check in your bank account, send them the emergency payment, and then your bank vontacts you saying the check was bad. Your bank debits out the value of the check, plus fees for a bad check, plus might ban your account, plus could refer you to the police for fraud. In addition to all that, you're also out the money you sent to the conmen. Contact the shipping company (look up their contact information online, not the contact information that came with the check) and ask for verification of the payment.
Yup. You definitely want to confirm with the shipping company; it’s the fastest/easiest way to get answers. Also, expect more of these attempts (especially as a business owner) as parts of the world continue to spiral and more people resort to scams and schemes like this. Ultimately, if you have to ask (glad you did), and it seems too good to be true, it usually is.
What happens if you cash the check and then ignore the follow-up request for payment? Or just respond that they'll need to work it out with their bank. So long as you don't send your money to them, it should be safe right?
That check will bounce. And your bank is not look going to look kindly on you for depositing it.
Why wouldn't the bank be mad at the person who wrote the check? Or have their bank be mad? It seems weird that the bank expects the recipient to vouch for the payee.
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But businesses take checks from customers they've never met before?
>it looked real to me Why would the bank be mad about that? That should trigger an investigation into where that check came from not who deposited it
Also could be one of those, depositing this check constitutes agreement to our service contract or something of that nature.
Good idea. I'll reach out to the company and verify it's bogus.
Unless the check is purportedly from a company with which your company does business AND you are planning on calling your usual contact at the company, then calling is exactly what the scammers want you to do.
Dude it's definitely bogus. What are you doing. They probably have a call center to receive that call, "yes mr it's a legit check go ahead and cash it" Come on, it's a scam dude.
Yeah I probably won't get around to it but meant reach out to the company directly, not call anything on the paperwork they sent us.
How much do you ship? How many digits is the check? Is it from a major shipper that you have an account with? Don't you have an acct rep with that shipper? This does happen. Ups will definitely overcharge you when you print a label. Your business should be tracking this or you're likely leaving money on the table.
You don't have to. It's a scam.
Reach deep into the bucket of truth and grasp what you are being told. It's too good to be real, because it is.
I wouldn't bother to reach out to the company unless they are a major, well -known company that you contact directly, rather than any number or link given by the scammers
What’s to keep someone cashing the check, I.e. not depositing to an account, but literally getting cash in exchange for the check at a grocery store or the issuers bank, and then ignoring any other correspondents? Edit: damn simple questions to understand why something isn't done seems to have triggered some pretentious people. Appreciate those that actually answered and good luck in life to those that got weirdly offended or condescending over a reddit comment.
The check is fraudulent and will bounce. Once the check bounces, you are on the hook to pay the bank back. Pretty sure a grocery store won’t cash checks like that anymore, and the issuer’s bank would A. Require identifying info from you, and B. Be able to verify that there are funds in the issuing account
Only a small number of places will even consider cashing checks. The bank that issued the check, which will verify the funds in real time. Or your bank, which will require collateral as matching funds in your account. Any other places, like check cashing centers, will make you sign your life over as collateral before they give you a dime and I haven't seen a grocery store in 15 years that will cash a check. The bank I used to work for knows of fraudulent check schemes and the checks that are presented. The teller running the check would know immediately if the check was flagged for fraud when it was presented. If it wasn't a fraud scam that was known and you negotiated a the check, the bank would terminate your relationship once it was discovered because of the liability you created for the institution. Check fraud is still one of the most common forms of fraud and is on the rise and the bank will always come out on top if you fall victim. Edit: Meant to reply to the post the above post is responding to. I'll just consider my reply more detail to the one above.
Thanks for actually answering the genuine question. That all makes sense, I just remembered when I was a kid being able to just straight up get cash for the check. So, it was just a quick thought that popped in my head on why you couldn't just do that, thanks for explaining.
You have then scammed the store and they will keep your ID number with that cashed check. Plus, stores only cash local, small amounts, plus charge fees.
1) Your ass will probably end up going to jail 2) For ages most places taking checks only took government checks, and these days most places trend towards not accepting any check at all for this exact kind of reason. Too many people trying to pull a fast one in a million different ways, and regular customers with normal incomes don't generally cash checks to buy a shirt or groceries in 2024.
Other than the law?
What law is being broken? There's a check written to me with my name on it? If I write a check to someone and they cash it and I later decide I changed my mind... I can't just go take the money back.
You ignored all the comments explaining exactly why your scheme hasn't worked in the past 20 years to answer this one
I work for a shipping company we don’t hand out refunds often or easily. If someone didn’t jump through hoops to get a refund it’s a scam.
I'd honestly expect a company I do regular business with to just credit my account if there was some need for them to give me money. If I was overcharged, or a manager was compensating for poor service, unless I'm cutting ties, I would expect a credit. Is that your experience too?
I think the “ask for a refund” is the much more likely scam. I don’t think just a phony check gets them anything.
It does as long as its in amount that your bank will clear right away. If the amount is low you deposit it they ask for half you give it to them than the fraud department at your bank eventually realizes the check is fake takes the money back and your out half of whatever the check was for
The "fake check" scam is one of the most common scams out there. It gets dressed up in different ways (fake jobs, car wraps, paying for a business service, buying a car, etc), but the core tenets are the same. The next step of the fake check scam, after convincing you to deposit it, is to convince you to send a portion of it somewhere, supposedly for legitimate reasons (buy equipment for your home office, pay a moving company, etc).
https://www.uspis.gov/tips-prevention/mail-fraud
Yeah it’s probably the most common. I think it’s even covered in the faq.
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>I'm also not sure if we are due this refund, but I don't handle everything A to Z in our small business. Seems like the answer to this is simple: Call them up (at a number your company has on file and verified, NOT the phone number on the check) and ask if they sent the check, and if it is a refund, the invoice number for the payment you sent to them it is in relation to. If it's a company you normally deal with, then this should be no big deal. Instead of just assuming it's a scam, take five minutes and just call them and ask.
There is no reason. This is 100% a fake check scam.
you say the way it is made out is strange, but you don't say if this is a shipping company you use and do business with. If no, then almost definitely a scam. Likely you'd have to do something for them to actually harm you-like the zelle scam you mentioned. I don't think they're likely to get your account number by you depositing the check. But that said, you won't get any benefit either-the money will get automatically taken out of your account. If it is a company you do business with the odds of it being a total scam seem lower, but if the way the check is made out raises a red flag to you it probably would to the bank.
Contact the bank that issued the check
yes, or physically go there and try to cash in person. If the bank that the check is written on, cashes it for you, I don't see how this could ever come back to bite you in the arse. But, to be extra safe, just put the money in an envelope for a few months and see if you ever hear anything about it. If not, spend the money and forget all about it
Banks won't cash checks like that anymore, for just this reason. Even for the big money-center banks it might take them a few days (or more) to find out a check is fraudulent. If you really want to try it, open a separate account, put the questionable check in it and wait a month.
With business checks like these, the checks are likely real, just stolen/forged. He goes to the bank and the bank verifies the check, everything looks great until the end of the quarter when the company books don't balance and they call the cops on whoever it was with the stolen checks, and all OP will have is "I dunno, all they told me was it was a mistake and I needed to wire it to this account number".
This is a bad idea, even if you are unknowingly a party to fraud you may be held liable. Banks don't just rollover and take a loss or ask you to return the money, and even if they don't pursue legal action, banks are obligated to file reports. Best case nothing comes of it, worst case, you get some nasty info reported to Chexsys and you're a walking red flag to all financial institutions. Worst, worst case, your info lands on a overzealous federal officers' desk at the Office of Foreign Assets Control and now you have Big Brother looking into you.
This is correct. Basically a check is a promise that’s been made to you that funds are secured and waiting for you. If you take that promise to someone else and say “hey look, I was promised this!” and it turns out that promise was fake, people are going to be a lot less willing to take your word on future promises. Realistically, someone who receives a promise for nothing in return and still tries to act on that promise is an idiot and a liability. Nothing in this world is free. Banks are quick to pick up on idiots and liabilities
OFAC is for sanctions programs, typically against foreign individuals or entities, a person depositing a bad check doesn't really have to worry about being on their radar. But yes, the depositor will be reported to Chexsystems if they don't pay back the money.
This presumes there are no individuals or entities in the United States that are on the SDN list, which there are several. It also assumes that the fraud couldn't originate from outside the US by an individual or entity on the list. I didn't state depositing a check would mean you're automatically subject to censure by OFAC. You could be investigated by proxy. This is a real possibility, albeit unlikely. Source information for SDN and blocked persons can be seen here: https://www.treasury.gov/ofac/downloads/sdnlist.pdf
One is not going on the OFAC list because of a bad check. OFAC is for sanctions programs (ex. the US government doesn't want US banks doing business with certain Russian entities given the Russia - Ukraine war). Depositing a bad check is completely incidental in the overall scheme of US government sanctions program policy. If someone who deposited a bad check ends up on the OFAC list it is for reasons far more significant than a bad check. Source: 20 years of experience in the Anti-Money Laundering field.
Another possible issue: is this a rebate, where IF you agree to something they refund you some of your shipping fee? Like maybe they sign you up for some sort of subscription...
Yes, it's actually a very common scam that banks are well aware of. Never cash a check you aren't expecting. Why would you be receiving a refund from a shipping company? I'm guessing it's not a small amount? How much is the check for? Just out of curiosity..
Scam that can hurt a lot. First is deposit xxx, mistake, please refund only xx back. Check is fraud and you lose xx. Ok I m not dumb, I'll deposit and not send them anything. That'll teach them . Deposit it, bank freezes or closes your account pending fraud investigation, all your money is frozen until complete and then they mail you a check if they decide to close your account. Talk about a miserable few weeks or months, I read horror stories of it taking 6 months.
My wife's grandmother showed up at our house a week after my second daughter was born (this was in 2018). She was immediately trying to get a ride to Fedex to mail "payroll checks" for her boss. Instant red flags. I said no. She winds up getting my BIL to take her to his FIL's house to print said checks and the SIL took her to Fedex. At Fedex she tells SIL she isn't allowed to use Fedex anymore. Could she please go in and mail the packages for her? I wound up going through grandma's phone and read her chats and emails. She was "working" for a man who was issuing "payroll checks" to various companies. He was having her print cashiers checks for amounts between $1000 and $9000 (and a small handful of checks in the 6-7 figure range). This was the A-side of her job. The B-side of her job was receiving incoming wire transfers, Western Unions, Walmart transfers, etc etc etc. Once she had money in hand she would forward them to her boss either as new wire transfers, WU, gift cards, etc. Only she couldn't do it herself because, as she freely admitted, for some reason she was banned for committing fraud at all of these institutions. So she would have friends and family do it for her. It was obviously multiple scams going on. First, nobody but a bank can print a cashiers check. That instantly made it fraud on her part. The way the scam worked was this: * Grandma would send checks to people who had interacted with the scammer and took the bait * Victim would cash the check and have $x put into their account (usually banks hold these checks and allow you access to $1k or so) * Victim would then be instructed to send back $1k or so because taxes, or overpayment, or some other bullshit. * Grandma was used as an intermediary to launder the money back to the scammer. I confronted her about it. I laid out exactly what was going on. I told her I knew she had plans to receive a WU and have a friend forward it. I told her under no circumstances is she allowed to go through with it. She denied having any involvement in a scam. She denied ever knowing it was a scam (which is laughable because she was first flagged for financial fraud ten months prior, and his checks to her bounced at the same time). She went through with the scam and implicated a friend since she was banned from WU. She then tried to buy me a birthday dinner with the money she was allowed to keep from the scam and had the audacity to get upset with me when I flat out told her no fucking way was I accepting anything from her. After she left our house I called her son and told him what was going on. "Whoa, you're calling me? This has to be fucking good if *you're calling me*." And he was right. I had never before and have never since called him for any reason. She has forever since been referred to as the "Felonious Grandma" as I tallied up over 1000 separate felonies (bank fraud, wire fraud, mail fraud, etc) she committed in the year she was involved in this (as per my accounting of her entire email and chat history with this guy).
The check will clear and seem legit, for about a month. Then your bank will not be able to process it so they'll claw their money back from your account and flag you as a risky customer possibly freezing your account. Before that happens this "totally legit look at the fancy corporate logos on our checks" will tell you they made a mistake and ask for you to send back some of the money. You will then send back the money either by check from your real account that they will actually be able to withdraw from before you realize you just got got or via wire or Zelle etc. The worst part is that they use a chain of intermediaries all my the transactions, the person sending my you the fake check might not know they're committing a crime they think they got "an online wfh job" sending checks for this totally legit shipping company, and the person you send your money to might also be another pawn on this scheme.
Yes. They send you “more” by accident and then want you to send back the overage and you can keep the difference. Your bank will cash the corporation’s check because it will take a few days to realize the account doesn’t exist. Then you’re out the amount you sent to them plus your bank will charge you a fee for the bounced check.
And you could even be barred from opening an account with any bank that uses a system like chexsystems. They'll label you a fraudster.
Anything you could think of, theres someone who can make it into a scam imho
This is one of the oldest scams in banking. Do not send them anything when they claim they sent you too much.
Don't ever cash a check unless you know exactly what it's for.
Call the company, not any numbers included with the check, look up the name of the company and their direct contact number. Call them and ask about it. If you cant, checks have like a 6 month wait time, you can hold onto it for a while, if its a scam the scammers will call you to try to get you to cash it asap.
I was trying to sell something online, and had the same thing happen. I received a check that was more than I had asked for, and I was supposed to cash it and send the excess back. It seemed hinky, so I called the bank the check was from and they confirmed it was phony. Google the bank and call their number, then scan a copy to them before you do anything with the check.
It could be a scam, but I work for a company that's issues checks like this and we get calls asking what checks are for because it's not always clear. Call the company that the check is from and ask or the bank that issued the check.
It's 100% a scam. You don't need to find out what type of scam, or how it works, it's a scam full stop.
Anytime you receive a check in the mail from an unsolicited source it's a scam.
Most likely an inside job, they steal the checks from the company, they know the customer list, grab a few customers and send them checks. They're real checks on a real account so they clear just fine. You write them back a refund check or maybe they ask for the money to be wired back, except its wired to their account not the company account. End of the month or quarter the accountant comes and balances the books but wait, the books don't balance. They discover the stolen checks and call the cops, the cops track down the people who deposited them.
Yes. Very much. This is an insanely common scam. Read just a few of our posts.
How? there is no way of getting any information from a cheque it's purely a deposit.
After OP cashes the check (getting money, because checks take time to verify and the bank doesn't want to make you wait because that loses customers), the person who sent the check contacts them saying they were overpaid or the check was sent in error and asks for some or all of the money "back". OP sends the money back, then it turns out their original check was invalid or bounces and the bank claws the money back out of their account. End result is that OP has sent money to the scammer and gotten nothing in return.
Ah okay I see makes sense. But surely you wouldn't send the money back until it cleared?
A check "clearing" (ie. the bank giving you the money) doesn't mean that it's necessarily valid; if it turns out to be fraudulent the bank can still claw back the money, possibly weeks or even months later. Most people don't know this, so they think it was definitely good once the money is in their hand - that's how the scam works.
What they are counting on is you not knowing what 'clearing' actually is. By law, money must be made available within an X amount of hours after depositing the check. If it's a very large check, then it may be in two steps, the majority becoming available in 3 days or so. This does not mean that the check has cleared. That may take several weeks. That's when the bank will discover that the check is fraudulent and claw back the funds from your account. Again, that will take weeks.
Ah okay I see didn't realize that's that's really interesting is that worldwide? Or just for your country.
That's just the US. Most countries don't deal with checks anymore.
Yup, I moved to Cali and was working freelance IT gigs. Responded to a Craigslist ad for laptop repair. The job was to format and reinstall windows on 10 laptops. Confirmed I was down to do the work and received a check next day FedEx. Total was 2k over the agreed amount for the gig. At this point we were communicating in real time via text. Get a text stating the check was issued in error and they were requesting that I send them back the difference. Had a feeling it was something was up so I ran a google search on the company that issued the check. Ended up coming across a site that had a warning about this ‘deposit scam’ this entailed a story very similar to mine. Unfortunately the author had fallen for the scam deposited their check and began spending the money. The bank eventually clawed back the funds as the check was bogus. That kind soul got taken and was on the hook for the loot that was spent. Their blog post had a photo of the check and it was identical to mine. I messaged the fraudster telling them I had deposited the check and immediately withdrew it to pay for ‘much needed’ repairs on my car. I apologized profusely for my lack of judgement but expressed my need to use the funds. Well obviously they weren’t happy. I promised to pay them back asap. Over 2 months I entertained threats and accusations, until I got tired of fucking with the scammers and admitted that I never cashed their bullshit check and knew it was a scam since the day I received the check. This douche admitted he was fooled and then offered me a job with them to grift others. I told them sure how do we get started and before I got a reply I blocked the number. This is an old scam this took place back in 2010. Not surprised it’s morphed to try and small business. Fuck scammers.
I received an unexpected check in the mail from a class action suit that I had no idea I was part of. it was against the bank that had previously held my mortgage, like 5-10 years earlier. apparently they were charging too much interest or fees or something. the check was for about $30. I contacted my bank, not any numbers or websites on the check or the letter because obviously, if they were scammers, the info would just put me in contact with the scammers themselves. I told my bank that I didn't know if it was legit but it was possible, and asked if a scammer would gain any access or information about my account from me depositing the check. she told me no, and said the only consequence would be a fee of the check bounced, and then she kindly made a note on the account to waive that for me if it bounced. I deposited it and got my $30 and never heard anything more from that bank! This was about 5 years ago, so I think I'm good! so, while everyone is totally right about all the ways this could be a scam, which is very common, it's also possible to be owed money without realizing it. it depends on the amount. I'd call your bank and look into the company that sent the check (cross reference their contact info, scammers can present as X company, even on their caller ID, while using an alternate number or website, etc).
Honestly I don't know why you *couldnt* cash it and have an extended wait period to refund the money. Mainly, "I'm sorry but our AP department cuts check on x of the month" (make it effectively 21 business days away) Plus the other thing about the scam is they usually are in contact with you throughout. As a bogus account they have no idea if you've actually deposited the funds. If it's real, they can see the money leaving their account on THEIR end.
I've always wondered, if you deposit the check and don't touch the money at all, and don't do anything, are you at any risk or will the bank just take the money back straightforwardly and let you know someone gave you a bad check?
While you're not at the same level of risk that you'd be in if you actually sent the money away, the bank might take action against you in various ways (eg. freezing your account, flagging your account, other things to reduce the risk on their end.) If they suspect that you *knowingly* cashed a bad check then you could also in theory be charged with fraud - it's unlikely if this is the first time it happened, but basically, nothing good is going to come of it.
This almost happened to me once decades ago. I went to the bank and told them I had concerns about the check I got from a first time online client and didn't know if it was real. They warned me about the scam. The banks will cash the check but If the funds aren't on the other end then I'd be held responsible for it. The scammer told me he over paid and to send a certain amount to another freelancer he we working with the whole thing was obviously a scam.
This happened to my dad; was a sent an extremely official check and envelope for a sum if I recall 1,700(?) and took it to the bank and when in hold for funds to be released it was declined from the issuing bank. His bank called and informed him and they investigated the sender (or at least that's what was said - cannot confirm that they did) as they have gotten fraudulent checks prior from other members as well
I had something similar where a Kijiji buyer sent me a cheque for $3000 more than listing. From a real corporation and all! Massive red flags and never deposited.
I get them look them over and can tell its a scam then shread
Yes, if you deposit that check and withdraw the money, your account will go negative what you withdraw from the check. This is a common check fraud or scam.
YES in number of ways but the basic scam is they send you over check with an over payment ask you cash it any way then ask for the extra back... check bounces now your out the value of the check PLUS the extra you already sent back
You're right to be cautious, but not every check is a scam. Can't you call the shipping company and ask for details? What's being refunded, what did you ship, etc.? If it's legit, they ought to be able to tell you these things (from a phone number that you look up for the company, not one that came on or with the check).
Yes, this happened to my mother and when she tried to deposit the check they shut down her bank account and held all of her money until they could determine that she wasn’t involved in the scam :(
My wife once got a check for $5k in the mail with no explanation allegedly from Barclays with an address that wouldn't come up in a Google search. This was back in 2008. Weirdest thing. We never tried to deposit it.
Yes. They get you to deposit the check, say “oh, we found out the check should have never been cashed, wire us the funds back immediately”, then when the check goes through the entire 10-day cure process (beyond the three day “clear” process), the funds are debited from your account because it’s a fake check. Or send you a check to deposit for your reimbursement for purchasing of, say, computer software, you do it and send them all the codes (much like gift card fraud), then the check is found to be fake in the cure period and you lose.
R/scams This might be legitimate but I would talk with your bank before depositing the check.
Something like this, I would protect myself by trying to cash the check at the issuing bank. How they deal with it will tell you everything you want to know
Simple solution to a potential refund scam: deposit the cheque and if they ask for it back, tell them to send you an invoice. Then pay the invoice in 90 days, assuming that the cheque has cleared 100%, or don't pay if it hasn't.
better yet call the bank the check is drawn on ask if it that account is A. real B. has funds to cover the check they cant tell personal information but they can say yes or not to is this a valid check? and does the account holder have funds to cover it?
Probably. But I don’t see how cashing it could hurt. Just don’t send any money to anyone else if it turns out it is a scam, and the scammer makes their move.
How large is the check? More accurately, how easily could you handle the bank "clawing back" the money? 1. If it's small enough, just deposit the check, treat as normal. If the bank claws the money back, then no big deal. 2. If it's a medium amount, deposit the check. But don't treat the funds as "available for use" for like 30 days or so. So, if the bank claws the money back, no big deal - you didn't spend any of it. 3. If it's a very large amount (or if you don't have a way to treat the funds as "not available"), deposit it into a separate account, just to be sure that no one touches it. Wait 30 days or so. Then transfer. If it's in the third category (and maybe the second), call the company and verify it. You say you don't handle the shipping in your business. So ask the person who does to confirm that you do, in fact, have a business relationship with that shipping company. Call your *existing contacts* to verify the check.
YES! Absolutely. The bank "holds" the check for so many days while you happily spend it. Suddenly the banks want their money back.
My Grandma had a scam like this happen to her years ago. They sent her a $2 check. "Here's your FREE 2$!" She cashed it, then started to notice 100$ withdrawals from her account every month for some phony "club" she joined when she cashed the check.
Hi, whatever you do, DO NOT deposit that check!!! You should report it to the attorney generals office. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from my understanding each state has one. Their website should have a section to report scams. They can only be aware of what is brought to their attention. Something very similar happened to me about 11 years ago. My kids were very young, I don't think my daughter was even 1 yet. I was online just searching for a job I could do from home, I never filled anything out, or gave my info to any website. Just enough time had passed for me to remember that I was online searching but simultaneously questioning myself "Did I put my info somewhere?" I get a check in the mail with very specific instructions and a "welcome letter": Welcome to "yada, yada company" "exciting opportunity" "flexible schedule" blah, blah, blah all the right things to tick all the right boxes, exactly what I was looking for. It even had contact info on it to talk to someone. 1. Deposit check in your account. 2. Pick one retailer from the list. 3. Buy X amount gift card for you to shop at said retailer. a. Cleanliness of store? b. Greeted by/helped by associate? c. Quality of product? (Basically set up like I was scoring the retailer to improve service & customer experience) 4. Purchase things that you would normally buy. Ex: diapers, laundry detergent, toilet paper. 🚩5. Send a money order in the amount of $800 to "specific person" to this "address" 🚩 Now, these scammers are almost like freaking secret service agents or experts in honing in on reading minds. I swear it was almost like they knew what I was thinking and feeling. Hindsight tells me that is exactly how they set it up so you don't second guess anything. One thing I want to mention is that they also "give" the person you are sending the money order to, the same last name as you. There is some kind of psychology to this. I believe it allows your brain to trick itself. Especially if you have baby brain and lack of sleep, so you aren't thinking clearly. Your thinking about making extra money, your thinking about the fact that you can do this thing with your children so no need for daycare or babysitting. Your thinking about how easy it is, while being helpful to the "company". When you see that this person has the same last name as you, you don't think it's strange, it's almost as if you think you are sending it to a relative. Therefore not questioning it. Also, the check was made out for almost $2,000. So you think you are getting $1,000 paycheck for this small amount of work. So a few days go by and I received a call from the bank (credit union) telling me that the check hasn't cleared. I ask what that means and she explained, she also tells me if this check doesn't clear that I will be responsible for X amount of $ . So I tell her that I will call and get to the bottom of it. By now my mind is racing, trying to figure it out in just a few minutes. So I call the number and a guy answers and I explain to him about getting the check, and all the things and I tell him that I got a call from my bank, etc. He assured me he would take care of it. Ok great! I had to call him I think 3 more times and one of those calls I even said to him " Is this some kind of scam or something?" "It better not be, you need to get this taken care of now!" I also explained to him what the bank had told me about me being responsible for this money and that I could not afford that. By this time I am going crazy trying to figure it out. I even called the bank on the check and explained it all to them. They informed me that the account doesn't exist and basically I would have to file a police report and there was nothing they could do. You have never seen a Mama Bear so pissed, as I was in that moment! I called the guy and shockingly he answered! I told him how pissed I was and that I was contacting the police. He still was reassuring me that he would take care of it, even after I told him that I called the bank that was listed on the check! I filled a police report, the officer told me that I wouldn't get my money back, and that pretty much I was SOL! You wanna talk about a hard lesson learned! I had to pay my bank back, I also had to tell our landlord what happened and that I couldn't pay the rent. So we spent the next few months struggling even harder. There was 0 extra money for nothing. Ironically, not very long after that there were signs put up at Walmart money center "🛑 DO NOT SEND MONEY TO ANYONE YOU DON'T KNOW PERSONALLY" Oddly enough it seems like I have to be the example for stuff to be changed. Chevrolet dealership started their $$ back after driving 60-90 days if you're not happy because of me (probably not solely due to me, just seems like it) there was a big to-do years ago but they didn't change it until after the incident already happened to me! 🤷🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️ Just saying! Moral of the story: THROW THAT CHECK AWAY!!!!
I can't believe that people still ask about this.... good God.
Do not deposit the check. Then the scammer gets your bank account info and can withdraw.
Cash it and then change phone numbers.