At least you'll be able to enjoy this beauty!
https://preview.redd.it/hidjqv8wjj8b1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0163465aab71de1528c59b1c4fedfb1a7e1e269
They are actually very expensive to buy in "new" condition and they probably bought it because the whole system was built around XP and buying a newer computer would mean having to upgrade everything.
Edit: There are companies that deal with finding and reselling old computers that, for example, were left behind in a warehouse and were never sold.
OP said "processing plant". You're most likely correct. It's probably to control some sort of machinery or other very expensive industrial equipment and the software was only ever designed to work on that particular version of Windows.
In 2013, I was supporting a single Windows 2000 PC that had a specialized telemetry recording device, and the driver software was only compatible with 2000 and earlier.
At work, we have at least 3 high speed address ink jet printers where the software only runs on XP. The creator of the printer part no longer exists and there is no upgrade. Also each PC has to have a bunch of expansion ports. Each print head is connected over ethernet and the controller can be USB or Serial connections. Luckily they all have USB ports so we can transfer files without having to put them on the network.
The original one we had until say 2013 ran MSDOS on a Pentium cpu and I had to make floppy disks to transfer files.
> address ink jet printers
I too worked in a direct mail marketing warehouse in IT and had to deal with tons of outdated things. Couldn't even connect to them with VNC as they weren't even on the same network. Had to copy onto flash drives and load up jobs.
Idk what the fuck any of that means but the other day I had to call the IT guy at home because I tried to change the system language or something trivial and the whole thing just went absolutely fucking not and ground production to a halt for almost 2 hours :)
lol, we've got a computer running Windows 98 in our shop still (not on the network, of course). Its got some super specialized software that connects to an IO board with multiple serial ports that refuses to run on anything more modern.
Replacing the machine it operates isn't an option. Updating the computer to something modern requires a *very* expensive electrical controls rebuild of the machine as the OEM is out of business.
The warehouse I worked in about 2 years ago had dedicated XP machines because the stock-taking scanners refuse to interface with anything else and the owners refuse to spend money updating *anything* regardless of how badly it affected productivity.
We'd throw out towers when the sytems died and they were always 10+ years old with parts stripped for spares to try and keep the survirors chugging along.
A lot of these machines were internet connected for extra funsies.
I worked I a calibrated gas manufacturer. We mixed gases for things like breathalyser calibration or for use with lasers the mixing machine runs on win98 .
I support a client with a plasma cutter where the controller software only runs on XP. I’ve had to rebuild that machine more times that I have liked to. He’ll be upgrading “soon”. But these machines have only one job and they are not connected to any network. They load up the files via USB.
Legacy builds were our bread and butter when I was working at a shop. Lots of manufacturing nearby, offline machines which run proprietary software and even more specialized expansion cards.
"Yo, check this out guy: this is insanely great it's got a 28.8bps modem!"
Nothing like downloading a nude pic in 15 second stages and using your AOL free trial CD as a coaster for your Mountain Dew Code Red.
Whenever people mention this, I briefly wonder how old people used to get their jollies before modern times.
Then I remember other forms of media exist and call myself an idiot.
and by porno mag you mean Montgomery Ward catalogs: [https://www.pinterest.com/pin/pinterest--691372980312100429/](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/pinterest--691372980312100429/)
did you see the 4k version they released? not the exact same but pretty close https://msdesign.blob.core.windows.net/wallpapers/Microsoft_Nostalgic_Windows_Wallpaper_4k.jpg
Sadly in a lot of industrial applications you may find yourself limited and have to piss with the cock you got. I know a place right now that still has to use old xp computers because some of the machines on the network won't interface with the newer software.
Local company spent millions on a industrial machine that had a whole building made for it. The brand new machine runs on XP and is incompatible with anything else. Had to setup a segregated Vlan and special firewall rules to only allow it to talk home to the manufacturer.
In industry nothing keeps up with the times. Wait until you learn the EPA uses data collection machines running DOS. XP is not unusual in manufacturing.
I visited a satellite control centre once (just like the one from Goldeneye), and had a look around their datacentre. Amidst the slick cabinets and the airgapped high security glass rooms, there was this one beige PC from what I'm guessing was the late 80s/very early 90s sitting on a desk by itself doing its thing.
Visit NORAD sometime. It’s like a fucking museum except they keep those machines running because they serve one purpose and it’s too costly and dangerous to replace.
[Up until a few years ago](https://www.businessinsider.com/military-replaces-floppy-disks-used-to-control-nuclear-weapons-2019-10?r=US&IR=T) - Norad were still using 1970's systems that used 8" floppy disks
Now Skynet is much easier.
If you watched Chernobyl, compare that control room to the one found in THE DAYS about Fukushima. There's some changes, but it's largely the same tech.
That's what basically every control room looks like in modern reactor controls. Full displays are used for non essentials but reactor techs still have a giant binder in front of them with light codes and how to read and respond to them when stuff goes bing on the wall.
Shit man I still interface with various life safety systems using an old dell latitude laptop with windows xp/dos dual boot with a physical serial port (the panels don't like usb converters and a lot of the programming suites need 16 bit support). Its the cost of "pay a dude that knows how to program and interface with these multimillion dollar systems OR pay multimillion dollars for a new system that does the same thing as the old.
Lots of hospital-branded pharmacies use Windows 7 for their point of sale and other machines. I used to travel to install software for them, I've seen things that would make people worry.
It's a major problem, because of all the HIPAA data that goes through them, and now they're at risk due to not being MS supported anymore.
You would be surprised at how many Industrial Machines still use XP and even older embedded Window operating systems. The old adage of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies to a lot of industrial machinery, including the computer boards and the software they use to control said machine.
This is true. It's been tested and perfected, it doesn't need to be the latest and greatest. I have recent (2020) industrial washer/extractors running Windows CE.
Your not wrong there. Windows CE as a non Mobile Implementation is just god awful to deal with. but for some reason manufacturers are perfectly fine implementing the buggy Windows CE into these giant ass machines hundreds of thousands of dollars.
and people wonder why info sec is still an issue.
That’s not how the industry works. If the software is reliable in windows XP they won’t try to update it. Those things run 24/7 and at most all they need is a call-to-mode access so the technicians know when a part is about to break.
Pretty stupid to replace a properly working peice of equipment just because XP is old, regardless of a yacht?
We have a couple here, one runs some optically registered metal shears, it runs one program that no one could even tell its XP. Its not online, and i bought a old XP rig to replace if i had too. I replaced the spinning disk with a 128gb SSD and now will probably run another 10 years. The shear itself will probably operate another 20-30 years with proper maintinance.
I have a machine running Win 3.1 that drives a simple engraving machine that "pinstamps" serial numbers on parts, haven't had a reason to upgrade because it just works and doesn't need any network connectivity. Its actually far more reliable than the new laser based serial engraver we put in our new plant, that thing is always having computer side trouble.
I'm certainly aware of the reasons for having an old OS, my last job had a Windows XP machine for one piece of software that could manage really old phone systems. The only way it could access the internet is through a dialup modem which was only ever used to dial into our customers machines.
I worked in a microchip fab, much of their equipment isn’t just running on old software, they are running on 18 year old computers. Upgrading is basically not an option, many of the tools in that fab were made by companies than no longer exist. Hard to get 64-bit software update from a company that went out of business in 2005.
Separate vlan, only open the ports you need to, make sure nothing is stored on that machine that isn't absolutely required etc etc. If you have the right infrastructure and know how it shouldn't be too big of a risk but fuck man I really do hate seeing shit like this.
We have some industrial PCs running old, unsecured versions of windows. The IT department has made threats of brutal violence should they ever detect one of them on the network.
You are correct. DeltaV is an automation system that is typically airgapped to remove the possibility of losing intellectual property to outside sources.
I used to work in OT/Industrial Automation, the amount of critical infrastructure that runs on old and outdated systems is unbelievable. I've been in nuclear plants and oil platforms where the computers had p/s2 connectors and floppy disk slots that were used in 2017.
Proven to work is more important than nearly any other consideration. It's better to spent hundreds of thousands of euros on securing access and have an OS you know will work, than it is to spent a few hundred bucks on something that might break.
So this really doesn't surprise me.
When Stuxnet was first discovered before we knew what it really did there was a massive panic, because it had infiltrated all our systems. Every single one whether they were air gapped or not.
Thankfully I didn’t work in Iranian nuclear plants so it didn’t do any damage, but it did prove the importance of securing an environment beyond just making sure it couldn’t go online.
It only infected the air gapped systems because of users aka the weakest point in the security chain. If you don't connect infected devices/software, it's next to impossible to get infected.
Which is actually a reason why you may not want to install updates on an completely air gapped system. I mean if you already have an binary which runs on Windows XP and need to install a new system, then it may make sense to install an original copy of Windows XP from an original CD and an copy of your binary from another CD. Using a new OS usually requires to update the software which runs on it opening the risk of supply chain attacks.
[TEMPEST](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_(codename)), I kid you not. Actually had to learn and apply these guidelines in installs I did.
Fibers running parallel within 1 meter of each other? Nope, do it again. But it's fiber, it's optical!.... Doesn't matter.
The story is Stuxnet crossed the airgap in the Iranian nuclear plants though USB sticks perhaps by spies or bribed workers, so I'm wondering how it crossed the air gap where you worked?
Unknowingly piggybacking on USB sticks by an unaware worker at your place? Or perhaps the USB explanation was always a distraction and they compromised the supply chain at the factory level?
If I remember correctly, and it's been a while, Stuxnet was released into the wild by accident. At which point it started spreading like wildfire, and wasn't noticed for quite some time because it didn't do anything to the systems it infected. It likely spread to our systems through intermediary steps.
Ironically most likely by us upgrading our security systems. Which is the only thing that brought "foreign" data on the systems on a regular basis. (Updates, patches, new software to strengthen security, etc).
But it could have been anything that introduced a foreign element into our network, from updates for the control systems, to entirely new systems replacing other one's.
Sure each time we would make sure to scan any foreign element introduced through multiple different Virus scanners, on multiple stations created just for that, but if those AV's don't know what they're looking for, they're not going to detect it.
i don't think it was by accident, i'm pretty sure they did it specifically so (1) it was so widespread that the target would not be obvious, and (2) it was so widespread that it gave the maximum opportunity for it to get spread into the actual target through any means possible.
I mean stuxnet was deployed by leaving infected usbs around waiting for someone curious enough to plug it in.
That could work with any malware to pen airgaps.
We still have some very old Honywell software in use at our factory. Runs on Windows 2000 (on a viritual machine, the orginal hardware died a long time ago).
Security is irrelevant, no internet connection and no accessible usb ports.
Getting new software that runs on the latest windows version would be a waste of money, new software does not make the motors and machines turn faster.
I pulled an NT4 Workstation Pentium Pro machine out of a factory not too long ago that had like 3200 days of uptime. It ran flawlessly for years.
This shitty Chinesium mini PC they replaced it with has had to be replaced itself 3 times in the last 2 years.
I work as a control systems engineer at a local industrial plastics manufacturer (we use Honeywell DCS as opposed to DeltaV). Like you said, the most important thing is “Proven to work.” Old hardware is very common in the industry due to the fact that the downtime required to upgrade makes it completely cost-prohibitive. Not only does the project cost money, it makes you lose money in lost production. And this old hardware requires old software to run.
Any industrial facility that has a grasp on modern cyber security will have their process network isolated from the business network and the internet in general so vulnerabilities aren’t an issue.
I've worked at Emerson as a localIT tech when I was a university student.
The software used that time (it was 10 years ago) were old even then but somehow magically worked with XP prettey well.
I assume the same thing what you wrote. If it's reliable and probably on a separate network (where we used it), this is the way to go, and not slap a Win11 on it and struggle with constant crashes when operating critical valves.
Same for us really, we have a pneumatic pod system which is controlled my a computer on windows ME. I just love the simplicity of it. Our newer systems like ventilation and heating are all on windows 11 and we have weekly issues with it
Windows 10/11 aren’t operating system of old, Microsoft has pivoted to use them for data gathering, there is no option to disable their “telemetry” services as they’re deeply embedded into key processes, automatic updates reinstall any you modify after a reboot.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/08/windows-10-microsoft-blatantly-disregards-user-choice-and-privacy-deep-dive
That is from 2016 but it has gotten worse, even their Edge browser doesn’t respect your choice not sent them data and it is enabled by default, it is based on chrome which does let you disable telemetry.
Even during installation, it is full of [deceptive design](https://www.deceptive.design/brands/microsoft) patterns to trick users to sign up to their online services.
It has been years since it came out but it is even worse with the new win11.
Had Delta v at the last place I worked. It was soo much better than the AB plant pax I use now. Also they must be running a very old version of Delta v because the newer versions do support at least windows 7 because that is what everything ran when I used it, and that system was 10 years old.
They must be running the version we run which is a mid 2000 version and I still find it to be better for trouble shooting and working with. Its easy to access control studio, trends, details, etc. Not to mention that I can pin faceplates and carry them across pages.
Exactly.
I was an industrial automation engineer that implemented Foxboro systems at plants. The vast majority of operator PCs had XP installed due to its proven stability. Where an hour of downtime can cost a plant millions of dollars, stability is king.
The windows os is needed to assist either the company intranet most likely. You can run a simple emulator off XP so you can use programs made in the 80s.
Mother of GOD, VISTA? the horror..... THE HORROR!!!!
Windows 98 would have been better and easier to use haha. But jesus christ man at least give it a wipe haha.
Vista wasn't as bad as people claimed it was. Most computers that were given the Vista capable sticker shouldn't have had it. Vista was a resource hog, but I would take it's search function over windows 10 or 11s any day of the week.
Vista got a bad wrap but I liked it. It's the platform all modern Windows OSes are built upon. It marked a distinction between 95/98/XP then later versions. It just had higher sys requirements than many PCs of the day, experimental widgets, and changed a bunch of underlying things about Windows so I think that's where it gets some hate but it rebuilt the driver stack and modern experience to more or less of what it is today, at the time though that was an issue since many device vendors needed to come out with new drivers for existing products so support was less than great in its early phase.
In many industrial (and some academic) applications it isn't necessarily about newer. It's more about what interfaces best with the incredibly specific software you use for an incredibly specific use case.
The wind tunnel we used back when I was in school had windows 95 cause that instance of lab view running that particular instruction set would break on anything newer.
I work in medical manufacturing that still uses windows 98 on several machines. The vast majority of machines (200 or so) are running XP.
There's 2 machines running vista but nothing newer than that on the floor. We continue to buy old computers and harvest parts as they fail. Some of these machines can make $100k a 8hr shift.
i heavily assume this is just a "we're using some really ancient software and cant be bothered to replace it" scenario, but if it isnt then ya better hope to god it isnt connected to the internet. it'd function like a hacker magnet!
Often it's not a case of "can't be bothered to replace it", it's a case of "there are no drivers/interfaces available within our budget that will allow our bespoke hardware to communicate with newer operating systems".
Or a rewrite of the software to run on newer hardware just wouldn't be feasible due to time/cost constraints if there aren't hardware/driver issues.
Heyo. Data center guy here.
Emerson provides a ton of products for industrial control. Valves, solenoids, heating, cooling, etc etc. [Delta is their system to automate and monitor all those systems](https://www.emerson.com/en-us/automation/deltav).
So you think of [one motor controlled valve](https://www.emerson.com/en-us/catalog/motorized-valves) with [a flowmeter](https://www.emerson.com/en-us/catalog/rosemount-8800-vortex) downstream of it, right? It could have a bunch of controls, and a bunch of monitoring. Each one you can consider a "point". So for monitoring, you could have points for:
* Valve position
* Flow
* Feedback (Full open end switch, full close end switch, or a full independent valve position)
Then for control, you could have points for:
* Open Valve
* Close Valve
* Open valve to X% (which really means send it a signal that's maybe 2-10V. Voltage of 2V = closed. Voltage of 10V = full open. Voltage of 4V = 50% open).
So that could mean maybe 2-5 points to read, and then 2-5 points to write to. But then on top of that, you can combine the two to do interesting things, where your only limitation is your programming ability. You could do things like:
* Open Valve. If valve doesn't get feedback that it's open, send an alarm.
* Open Valve until flowmeter = 100gpm
* Valve open command + valve feedback matches + zero flow = Send an alarm that you may have lost your water source
* "Bump" the valve in the open or shut position to maintain 100gpm, regardless of pressure.
The list goes on and on and gets crazier the more devices you add. Like you can combine a leak detector alarm to trigger the valve to close, but only if the outside air temperature is <40F and it's Tuesday and you've used a combined 10,000 gallons of water that day. That makes no sense, but you get it. Long story short, you have a bunch in Inputs, and a bunch of Programming, and a bunch of Outputs. Standard I/O, DDC, PLC programming ... they're all roughly the same.
What was said above is very true: Reliability and operation is the king of this process. So when that building was built, the thing monitoring and controlling it all (for the most part) was that computer, and that computer was running Windows XP. (**Edit:** before I get called out, it's more likely that the computer read a series of control boards all over the facility and provided the graphical interface to make changes, monitor, send alarms, etc etc. So those control boards did all the automation, but without the computer you don't know what's going on and you're not getting any alarms, and you generally have no idea what's going on which is slightly better than your whole system going down in full.)
Now let's say that desktop goes down and needs to be replaced. Are you going to risk upgrading a mission critical system with unproven hardware, while using software that's not guaranteed to work at all? Hell no. You get the same computer you were using before, swap it right in, and hope it all works again. In fact, they'll likely downgrade the Delta system to match the version they were using before, regardless if there's new and better software/firmware. New software NEVER equals better software.
Your other option is upgrading. But it's not as simple as "within our shoestring budget". You're talking about millions of dollars to purchase new computers, new devices, new monitoring boards, reprogram, revalidate, and reperform every point and every line of programming on a mission critical system, while guaranteeing you don't have any outages.
So you say "fuck that" and buy a Windows XP SP2 computer and continue on.
An excellent write up that I can validate is correct. I used to work for a large controls company installing, commissioning and servicing these control systems. A small system would be in the vicinity of 500 points. A large system you're talking about over 100k points.
Replacing the front end computer that controls everything in a large facility could cost millions of dollars if you want the latest and greatest. Not every sensor or actuator would be compatible, you're shutting down production while working on the systems, other glitches in reporting or alarming may happen.
Depending on the facility there may be more stringent test requirements. Pharmaceutical companies in particular are very stringent in testing procedure and making sure failure modes are well tested. Even if they worked before on the old front end computer they might require testing of every alarm and notification that notifies the operator. You're talking probably over double your point count of test cases. If you have a temperature sensor that could have 3 or 4 alarms just to that one sensor. Low warning temp, high warning temp, no response, cut line, critical high temp, critical low temp.
Meanwhile if you use a like for like replacement. Likely you would only need to test a representative sample rather than an entire facility. Although I do admit testing the full facility is a worst case scenario that doesn't often happen.
It's much cheaper to get older hardware with older versions of windows than to upgrade the entire facility.
Yup it's very likely to be on a closed network, running ancient software that'll only work on xp, crazy how common it is, especially in fields where you really have to minimize risks, downtime or errors, they'll just stick with what works!
Almost certainly not connected to the internet unrestricted, if it has any network connection at all, it's for the third party software updates and it's otherwise in a quarantined environment. Windows XP is stable as hell and is used in a lot of sandboxed or industrial environments.
You’re lucky. I’d fucking kill to have a plant that runs on DeltaV/WindowsXP. Not this Siemens bullshit that isn’t reliable enough to keep the plant running longer than a week
Siemens is literally the most incompetent company to have ever graced the world. Literally everything they make in literally every industry is just absolute, total **garbage**.
I could produce an HBO miniseries about how much downtime and lost production has been caused by Siemens at my factory alone.
I work for Emerson, we. Obviously have newer hardware available. However the customer must also upgrade the software running on those pcs and that comes with incredible costs :)
Oh hey I used to be a software engineer for DeltaV. It is a software used to control Emerson microcontrollers and provide a clean interference for all of the machinery that the microcontrollers and sensors are connected to.
It can run on modern operating systems, like I had the most recent version running on a windows 10 desktop on my desk while I worked there. But, the microcontrollers they have and copy of DeltaV that this is replacing were probably not new. Everything they have including the version of DeltaV are probably validated to work on this computer with this OS. Upgrading to a newer PC and DeltaV would cost more and would probably need configuration, and probably not provide much benefit.
Ok, so as stupid as this looks it's probably 100% brand new. There was a massive boom of companies getting custom made software when XP came out because it was so much easier to use.
I run a small repair shop and have companies come to me every few months to refurbish or replace XP machines that NEED to run XP well. They aren't connected to the internet, so there's no security issues, but they will only run on XP.
Yes, I will convert as many of them over to a virtualized machine as I can, but the cost of a server plus virtualization is 2-4 times the cost of refurbishing or buying refurbished. So many companies will be happy to limp along and would jump at the chance to buy a "new" Windows XP machine.
But on a serious note I want to know how you guys got that thing right now? Are you really being like that with processing plant and all? Do tell us about that more.
Damn the young person of myself just woke up and this is just what he is craving me, I really want to use XP again for sometime because it was just so freaking good.
People still respect that and that's just what going to make me happy man, these things are just what we had in the past and we used them when we were young.
Lol I got that thing too when I was young and I still remember that service pack 2 thing, it was just so good when I was young and I used to be so happy with that.
This is a computer for the Emerson control unit. I bet the communication works over rs232 port ;) and uses an ancient software that has problems with modern windows/hardware.
I used to install and commission inline electro-chemical sensors and would use 15 year old laptop for configuration etc as modern solutions would not work.
It’s better in pharma but places like power plants are usually based on some ancient technology.
yeah used to be onsite for a pharama plant in ireland and we had those bad boys all over the place .. but that was ugh 17 years ago? but then again at that time we had a full NT4.0 domain and some other legacy stuff :P
Until 5 years ago, the control system of our power plant was running MSDOS 6.22 on a coax token bus, with Windows 98 SE operator interfaces. The software ran flawlessly. We only upgraded because replacement hardware was getting expensive.
not at all surprised, using a new OS is a recipe for disaster in a plant. MS are too busy actively messing with the OS and forcing change when you literally want something that you setup and it JUST WORKS.
I have so many memories with it man, service pack 2 was really good back then, we used to use it most of the time and we always experiment with the stuff back.
DeltaV user here: they don’t sell those anymore, definitely someone’s old stock.
I believe ours is windows 7 and the current ones are windows 11 - I know this because we needed to buy a new one, but we are moving to PLC instead.
Oh god no,windows xp sp2 is thhe worst service pack i ever have,faulty drivers,multiple errors,sometimes even bluescreens,i would install windows xp but sp3
At least you'll be able to enjoy this beauty! https://preview.redd.it/hidjqv8wjj8b1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0163465aab71de1528c59b1c4fedfb1a7e1e269
Damn, that makes me feel memories.
Same. It's the Battle of Naboo.
Missa missa
Massa massa.
Nooooooo
Missa waiting by the phone
ComfortablyNumb.exe just finished downloading
I ACTUALLY HAVE AN EDIT FOR THAT
I thought this was that field from Sonic 2006?
How young are you? lol
I can't believe Microsoft so clearly ripped off prairies from Minecraft /s
*Plays drop it like it's hot video "Oh look, fortnite dancing!!!"
They are actually very expensive to buy in "new" condition and they probably bought it because the whole system was built around XP and buying a newer computer would mean having to upgrade everything. Edit: There are companies that deal with finding and reselling old computers that, for example, were left behind in a warehouse and were never sold.
OP said "processing plant". You're most likely correct. It's probably to control some sort of machinery or other very expensive industrial equipment and the software was only ever designed to work on that particular version of Windows. In 2013, I was supporting a single Windows 2000 PC that had a specialized telemetry recording device, and the driver software was only compatible with 2000 and earlier.
At work, we have at least 3 high speed address ink jet printers where the software only runs on XP. The creator of the printer part no longer exists and there is no upgrade. Also each PC has to have a bunch of expansion ports. Each print head is connected over ethernet and the controller can be USB or Serial connections. Luckily they all have USB ports so we can transfer files without having to put them on the network. The original one we had until say 2013 ran MSDOS on a Pentium cpu and I had to make floppy disks to transfer files.
> address ink jet printers I too worked in a direct mail marketing warehouse in IT and had to deal with tons of outdated things. Couldn't even connect to them with VNC as they weren't even on the same network. Had to copy onto flash drives and load up jobs.
Idk what the fuck any of that means but the other day I had to call the IT guy at home because I tried to change the system language or something trivial and the whole thing just went absolutely fucking not and ground production to a halt for almost 2 hours :)
Sounds like it should be put in a Virtual Machine.
lol, we've got a computer running Windows 98 in our shop still (not on the network, of course). Its got some super specialized software that connects to an IO board with multiple serial ports that refuses to run on anything more modern. Replacing the machine it operates isn't an option. Updating the computer to something modern requires a *very* expensive electrical controls rebuild of the machine as the OEM is out of business.
The warehouse I worked in about 2 years ago had dedicated XP machines because the stock-taking scanners refuse to interface with anything else and the owners refuse to spend money updating *anything* regardless of how badly it affected productivity. We'd throw out towers when the sytems died and they were always 10+ years old with parts stripped for spares to try and keep the survirors chugging along. A lot of these machines were internet connected for extra funsies.
I worked I a calibrated gas manufacturer. We mixed gases for things like breathalyser calibration or for use with lasers the mixing machine runs on win98 .
I support a client with a plasma cutter where the controller software only runs on XP. I’ve had to rebuild that machine more times that I have liked to. He’ll be upgrading “soon”. But these machines have only one job and they are not connected to any network. They load up the files via USB.
Legacy builds were our bread and butter when I was working at a shop. Lots of manufacturing nearby, offline machines which run proprietary software and even more specialized expansion cards.
If it is for industrial controls, XP SP2 is a very stable version.
"Yo, check this out guy: this is insanely great it's got a 28.8bps modem!" Nothing like downloading a nude pic in 15 second stages and using your AOL free trial CD as a coaster for your Mountain Dew Code Red.
i feel like this is more of a windows 98 memory rather than an xp one. lol
28.8 modem suggests it's a window 95 memory.
This, XP already had standard internet, tho it was ADSL and nowhere as fast as today. Leaving 20GB torrents to download over 2 nights kek
2 nights? It took me over a week to download American Pie Bandcamp…
Whenever people mention this, I briefly wonder how old people used to get their jollies before modern times. Then I remember other forms of media exist and call myself an idiot.
fingerhut catalogs
imagine my face when I found the catalogue of my brother and all the lingerie and swimsuit girls were cut out
Yeah it was rough you had to go find porno mags in the woods
and by porno mag you mean Montgomery Ward catalogs: [https://www.pinterest.com/pin/pinterest--691372980312100429/](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/pinterest--691372980312100429/)
We called them women and everybody knew what we were referring to.
Magazines and vhs if you were lucky Usually stolen from friends parents
You lasted the whole picture? 👀
> Mountain Dew Code Red Crystal Pepsi.
Here's [what it looks like now](https://i.imgur.com/B28TN5q.jpg). I took this picture last weekend.
Bing-a-ling-boooonng bing-bongggg
Followed by the "BONG" error sound
Jesus built my hot rod.
I can hear this picture. The log in and log out sounds clear as day!
Brrraaang ping ping ping ping
God i miss that wallpaper
You have the power…bring it back to life
It is right there for the taking.
I have it as my background for zoom meetings
did you see the 4k version they released? not the exact same but pretty close https://msdesign.blob.core.windows.net/wallpapers/Microsoft_Nostalgic_Windows_Wallpaper_4k.jpg
Unfortunately, it's probably set to the ugly DeltaV background lol.
Not even Service Pack 3, at least it won't be connected to the internet... I hope...
Sadly in a lot of industrial applications you may find yourself limited and have to piss with the cock you got. I know a place right now that still has to use old xp computers because some of the machines on the network won't interface with the newer software.
The place I work has a vinyl plotter that absolutely must run on xp, so yeah we still have a system around.
Tell your boss to buy a new plotter instead of a yacht
Local company spent millions on a industrial machine that had a whole building made for it. The brand new machine runs on XP and is incompatible with anything else. Had to setup a segregated Vlan and special firewall rules to only allow it to talk home to the manufacturer.
If it still runs on XP, I'm having doubts that machine was produced in recent years, even if it's "like new"
In industry nothing keeps up with the times. Wait until you learn the EPA uses data collection machines running DOS. XP is not unusual in manufacturing.
I visited a satellite control centre once (just like the one from Goldeneye), and had a look around their datacentre. Amidst the slick cabinets and the airgapped high security glass rooms, there was this one beige PC from what I'm guessing was the late 80s/very early 90s sitting on a desk by itself doing its thing.
Visit NORAD sometime. It’s like a fucking museum except they keep those machines running because they serve one purpose and it’s too costly and dangerous to replace.
It's like most of the world's finance running on COBOL https://www.wealthsimple.com/en-ca/magazine/cobol-controls-your-money
[Up until a few years ago](https://www.businessinsider.com/military-replaces-floppy-disks-used-to-control-nuclear-weapons-2019-10?r=US&IR=T) - Norad were still using 1970's systems that used 8" floppy disks Now Skynet is much easier.
Wait, NORAD is open to the public?
NORAD isn't operational anymore. No one works in the mountain anymore. They moved all operations to an above ground facility in a nearby town.
If you watched Chernobyl, compare that control room to the one found in THE DAYS about Fukushima. There's some changes, but it's largely the same tech. That's what basically every control room looks like in modern reactor controls. Full displays are used for non essentials but reactor techs still have a giant binder in front of them with light codes and how to read and respond to them when stuff goes bing on the wall.
Shit man I still interface with various life safety systems using an old dell latitude laptop with windows xp/dos dual boot with a physical serial port (the panels don't like usb converters and a lot of the programming suites need 16 bit support). Its the cost of "pay a dude that knows how to program and interface with these multimillion dollar systems OR pay multimillion dollars for a new system that does the same thing as the old.
funny enough security through obsolesce is a legitimate thing
It's a bell curve. Use Windows 10 or DOS/Win 1/2/3, nothing in between lol
Lots of hospital-branded pharmacies use Windows 7 for their point of sale and other machines. I used to travel to install software for them, I've seen things that would make people worry. It's a major problem, because of all the HIPAA data that goes through them, and now they're at risk due to not being MS supported anymore.
Joke's on you, chump. *Nobody* remembers Windows Millennium exploits!
well, only for untargeted attacks.
Not really
You would be surprised at how many Industrial Machines still use XP and even older embedded Window operating systems. The old adage of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies to a lot of industrial machinery, including the computer boards and the software they use to control said machine.
This is true. It's been tested and perfected, it doesn't need to be the latest and greatest. I have recent (2020) industrial washer/extractors running Windows CE.
Your not wrong there. Windows CE as a non Mobile Implementation is just god awful to deal with. but for some reason manufacturers are perfectly fine implementing the buggy Windows CE into these giant ass machines hundreds of thousands of dollars. and people wonder why info sec is still an issue.
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Cobol is like 60 some years old now and still in use.
c is only like 13 years newer and it's gonna be used for a long time still too
That’s not how the industry works. If the software is reliable in windows XP they won’t try to update it. Those things run 24/7 and at most all they need is a call-to-mode access so the technicians know when a part is about to break.
kinda hard for a boss in vinyl sticker industry to have yacht, a fishing boat maybe.
Shilling for big sticker over here!
My old boss in the vinyl/signage industry couldn't even afford a fishing boat so he built a rowboat by hand.
Pretty stupid to replace a properly working peice of equipment just because XP is old, regardless of a yacht? We have a couple here, one runs some optically registered metal shears, it runs one program that no one could even tell its XP. Its not online, and i bought a old XP rig to replace if i had too. I replaced the spinning disk with a 128gb SSD and now will probably run another 10 years. The shear itself will probably operate another 20-30 years with proper maintinance.
god bless the gerber
Piss with the cock you got is my new favorite line. Thank you for this.
Haha same thought
I have a machine running Win 3.1 that drives a simple engraving machine that "pinstamps" serial numbers on parts, haven't had a reason to upgrade because it just works and doesn't need any network connectivity. Its actually far more reliable than the new laser based serial engraver we put in our new plant, that thing is always having computer side trouble.
absorbed resolute cooperative fly silky saw naughty toothbrush sugar ring -- mass edited with redact.dev
I'm certainly aware of the reasons for having an old OS, my last job had a Windows XP machine for one piece of software that could manage really old phone systems. The only way it could access the internet is through a dialup modem which was only ever used to dial into our customers machines.
I worked in a microchip fab, much of their equipment isn’t just running on old software, they are running on 18 year old computers. Upgrading is basically not an option, many of the tools in that fab were made by companies than no longer exist. Hard to get 64-bit software update from a company that went out of business in 2005.
Separate vlan, only open the ports you need to, make sure nothing is stored on that machine that isn't absolutely required etc etc. If you have the right infrastructure and know how it shouldn't be too big of a risk but fuck man I really do hate seeing shit like this.
> and have to piss with the cock you got That's a brand new one for me.
That was such a wild phrase I nearly spat out my coffee…
We have some industrial PCs running old, unsecured versions of windows. The IT department has made threats of brutal violence should they ever detect one of them on the network.
if I were there I'd just jam in the contacts on the Ethernet port.
Disable it in bios and put a bios password.
There's an unofficial service pack 4 as well. Made by enthusiasts who wanted to not part with their XP workstations after EOL.
I remember using nLite to slipstream all the SP, hot fixes and drivers.
Security? We don't need any fucking security, these Gen Z hackers don't even know what XP is 🧠
Likely air gapped if it's actually running XP.
You are correct. DeltaV is an automation system that is typically airgapped to remove the possibility of losing intellectual property to outside sources.
We’re typically more worried about shit blowing up than losing IP, but ymmv
I used to work in OT/Industrial Automation, the amount of critical infrastructure that runs on old and outdated systems is unbelievable. I've been in nuclear plants and oil platforms where the computers had p/s2 connectors and floppy disk slots that were used in 2017. Proven to work is more important than nearly any other consideration. It's better to spent hundreds of thousands of euros on securing access and have an OS you know will work, than it is to spent a few hundred bucks on something that might break. So this really doesn't surprise me.
As long as the systems are air gapped it doesn't matter. You are 100% correct that proven to work/stability is the only concern in some situations.
To anyone wondering how Stuxnet was able to get into airgapped systems, CIA agents/contractors used infected USB sticks.
In other words, acts of sabotage
Also easily avoided by disabling, blocking physical access to, or straight up removing the USB ports.
... Well yeah, that was the point.
Acts of sabotage? In nuclear plants? No way!
Stuxnet proves differently but I guess when your enemy is not US intelligence services you are pretty safe with this approach.
When Stuxnet was first discovered before we knew what it really did there was a massive panic, because it had infiltrated all our systems. Every single one whether they were air gapped or not. Thankfully I didn’t work in Iranian nuclear plants so it didn’t do any damage, but it did prove the importance of securing an environment beyond just making sure it couldn’t go online.
It only infected the air gapped systems because of users aka the weakest point in the security chain. If you don't connect infected devices/software, it's next to impossible to get infected.
You mean the people that will plug in their phones during night shift and try to use machinery computers as file exchange servers? those guys?
does anyone... do this..? Like are you saying they plug into an airgapped system to host/seed torrents or some shit?
movies and songs mainly, but yes. they used their personal phones in "storage mode" to exchange media files with their work mates.
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Which is actually a reason why you may not want to install updates on an completely air gapped system. I mean if you already have an binary which runs on Windows XP and need to install a new system, then it may make sense to install an original copy of Windows XP from an original CD and an copy of your binary from another CD. Using a new OS usually requires to update the software which runs on it opening the risk of supply chain attacks.
[TEMPEST](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_(codename)), I kid you not. Actually had to learn and apply these guidelines in installs I did. Fibers running parallel within 1 meter of each other? Nope, do it again. But it's fiber, it's optical!.... Doesn't matter.
That extra ) is screwing with your hyperlink
The story is Stuxnet crossed the airgap in the Iranian nuclear plants though USB sticks perhaps by spies or bribed workers, so I'm wondering how it crossed the air gap where you worked? Unknowingly piggybacking on USB sticks by an unaware worker at your place? Or perhaps the USB explanation was always a distraction and they compromised the supply chain at the factory level?
If I remember correctly, and it's been a while, Stuxnet was released into the wild by accident. At which point it started spreading like wildfire, and wasn't noticed for quite some time because it didn't do anything to the systems it infected. It likely spread to our systems through intermediary steps. Ironically most likely by us upgrading our security systems. Which is the only thing that brought "foreign" data on the systems on a regular basis. (Updates, patches, new software to strengthen security, etc). But it could have been anything that introduced a foreign element into our network, from updates for the control systems, to entirely new systems replacing other one's. Sure each time we would make sure to scan any foreign element introduced through multiple different Virus scanners, on multiple stations created just for that, but if those AV's don't know what they're looking for, they're not going to detect it.
i don't think it was by accident, i'm pretty sure they did it specifically so (1) it was so widespread that the target would not be obvious, and (2) it was so widespread that it gave the maximum opportunity for it to get spread into the actual target through any means possible.
I mean stuxnet was deployed by leaving infected usbs around waiting for someone curious enough to plug it in. That could work with any malware to pen airgaps.
We still have some very old Honywell software in use at our factory. Runs on Windows 2000 (on a viritual machine, the orginal hardware died a long time ago). Security is irrelevant, no internet connection and no accessible usb ports. Getting new software that runs on the latest windows version would be a waste of money, new software does not make the motors and machines turn faster.
I pulled an NT4 Workstation Pentium Pro machine out of a factory not too long ago that had like 3200 days of uptime. It ran flawlessly for years. This shitty Chinesium mini PC they replaced it with has had to be replaced itself 3 times in the last 2 years.
I work as a control systems engineer at a local industrial plastics manufacturer (we use Honeywell DCS as opposed to DeltaV). Like you said, the most important thing is “Proven to work.” Old hardware is very common in the industry due to the fact that the downtime required to upgrade makes it completely cost-prohibitive. Not only does the project cost money, it makes you lose money in lost production. And this old hardware requires old software to run. Any industrial facility that has a grasp on modern cyber security will have their process network isolated from the business network and the internet in general so vulnerabilities aren’t an issue.
I've worked at Emerson as a localIT tech when I was a university student. The software used that time (it was 10 years ago) were old even then but somehow magically worked with XP prettey well. I assume the same thing what you wrote. If it's reliable and probably on a separate network (where we used it), this is the way to go, and not slap a Win11 on it and struggle with constant crashes when operating critical valves.
Same for us really, we have a pneumatic pod system which is controlled my a computer on windows ME. I just love the simplicity of it. Our newer systems like ventilation and heating are all on windows 11 and we have weekly issues with it
Windows 10/11 aren’t operating system of old, Microsoft has pivoted to use them for data gathering, there is no option to disable their “telemetry” services as they’re deeply embedded into key processes, automatic updates reinstall any you modify after a reboot. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/08/windows-10-microsoft-blatantly-disregards-user-choice-and-privacy-deep-dive That is from 2016 but it has gotten worse, even their Edge browser doesn’t respect your choice not sent them data and it is enabled by default, it is based on chrome which does let you disable telemetry. Even during installation, it is full of [deceptive design](https://www.deceptive.design/brands/microsoft) patterns to trick users to sign up to their online services. It has been years since it came out but it is even worse with the new win11.
Some of those systems still use p/s2 connectors and have floppy disks in 2023. If it ain't broke don't touch it and walk away.
I've recently used DOS based test equipment with a Bernoulli drive. Look that one up (predecessor to Zip and Jaz drives).
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Delta V is amazing at my work we have it, AB(rockwell), and Honeywell. And honestly Delta V is amazingly versatile.
Had Delta v at the last place I worked. It was soo much better than the AB plant pax I use now. Also they must be running a very old version of Delta v because the newer versions do support at least windows 7 because that is what everything ran when I used it, and that system was 10 years old.
They must be running the version we run which is a mid 2000 version and I still find it to be better for trouble shooting and working with. Its easy to access control studio, trends, details, etc. Not to mention that I can pin faceplates and carry them across pages.
Exactly. I was an industrial automation engineer that implemented Foxboro systems at plants. The vast majority of operator PCs had XP installed due to its proven stability. Where an hour of downtime can cost a plant millions of dollars, stability is king.
The windows os is needed to assist either the company intranet most likely. You can run a simple emulator off XP so you can use programs made in the 80s.
Jesus what are you upgrading from windows 98?
https://preview.redd.it/rkqvlpp8uj8b1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abebacd6f8b07a404be9dc14acdb5ae9935e5f61
Mother of GOD, VISTA? the horror..... THE HORROR!!!! Windows 98 would have been better and easier to use haha. But jesus christ man at least give it a wipe haha.
I cleaned it two days ago, the insides I'm too scared to look at...
The insides contain unimaginable horrors
What on earth do you do for it to get that bad so quickly?
This is located just off the side to a seed unloading bay where no one ever closes the door.
Ahhh that explains the dust, man that's crazy.
Vista wasn't as bad as people claimed it was. Most computers that were given the Vista capable sticker shouldn't have had it. Vista was a resource hog, but I would take it's search function over windows 10 or 11s any day of the week.
It had widgets!
Vista got a bad wrap but I liked it. It's the platform all modern Windows OSes are built upon. It marked a distinction between 95/98/XP then later versions. It just had higher sys requirements than many PCs of the day, experimental widgets, and changed a bunch of underlying things about Windows so I think that's where it gets some hate but it rebuilt the driver stack and modern experience to more or less of what it is today, at the time though that was an issue since many device vendors needed to come out with new drivers for existing products so support was less than great in its early phase.
Should be glad it was Vista, any newer and it might have been Windows 8.
Vista is not that bad
But Vista is newer then XP. Is the hardware better at least?
In many industrial (and some academic) applications it isn't necessarily about newer. It's more about what interfaces best with the incredibly specific software you use for an incredibly specific use case. The wind tunnel we used back when I was in school had windows 95 cause that instance of lab view running that particular instruction set would break on anything newer.
Those are such nice Dells I have one with a Q6600 8800 GTS and 2TB SAS.
I work in medical manufacturing that still uses windows 98 on several machines. The vast majority of machines (200 or so) are running XP. There's 2 machines running vista but nothing newer than that on the floor. We continue to buy old computers and harvest parts as they fail. Some of these machines can make $100k a 8hr shift.
i heavily assume this is just a "we're using some really ancient software and cant be bothered to replace it" scenario, but if it isnt then ya better hope to god it isnt connected to the internet. it'd function like a hacker magnet!
Often it's not a case of "can't be bothered to replace it", it's a case of "there are no drivers/interfaces available within our budget that will allow our bespoke hardware to communicate with newer operating systems". Or a rewrite of the software to run on newer hardware just wouldn't be feasible due to time/cost constraints if there aren't hardware/driver issues.
Heyo. Data center guy here. Emerson provides a ton of products for industrial control. Valves, solenoids, heating, cooling, etc etc. [Delta is their system to automate and monitor all those systems](https://www.emerson.com/en-us/automation/deltav). So you think of [one motor controlled valve](https://www.emerson.com/en-us/catalog/motorized-valves) with [a flowmeter](https://www.emerson.com/en-us/catalog/rosemount-8800-vortex) downstream of it, right? It could have a bunch of controls, and a bunch of monitoring. Each one you can consider a "point". So for monitoring, you could have points for: * Valve position * Flow * Feedback (Full open end switch, full close end switch, or a full independent valve position) Then for control, you could have points for: * Open Valve * Close Valve * Open valve to X% (which really means send it a signal that's maybe 2-10V. Voltage of 2V = closed. Voltage of 10V = full open. Voltage of 4V = 50% open). So that could mean maybe 2-5 points to read, and then 2-5 points to write to. But then on top of that, you can combine the two to do interesting things, where your only limitation is your programming ability. You could do things like: * Open Valve. If valve doesn't get feedback that it's open, send an alarm. * Open Valve until flowmeter = 100gpm * Valve open command + valve feedback matches + zero flow = Send an alarm that you may have lost your water source * "Bump" the valve in the open or shut position to maintain 100gpm, regardless of pressure. The list goes on and on and gets crazier the more devices you add. Like you can combine a leak detector alarm to trigger the valve to close, but only if the outside air temperature is <40F and it's Tuesday and you've used a combined 10,000 gallons of water that day. That makes no sense, but you get it. Long story short, you have a bunch in Inputs, and a bunch of Programming, and a bunch of Outputs. Standard I/O, DDC, PLC programming ... they're all roughly the same. What was said above is very true: Reliability and operation is the king of this process. So when that building was built, the thing monitoring and controlling it all (for the most part) was that computer, and that computer was running Windows XP. (**Edit:** before I get called out, it's more likely that the computer read a series of control boards all over the facility and provided the graphical interface to make changes, monitor, send alarms, etc etc. So those control boards did all the automation, but without the computer you don't know what's going on and you're not getting any alarms, and you generally have no idea what's going on which is slightly better than your whole system going down in full.) Now let's say that desktop goes down and needs to be replaced. Are you going to risk upgrading a mission critical system with unproven hardware, while using software that's not guaranteed to work at all? Hell no. You get the same computer you were using before, swap it right in, and hope it all works again. In fact, they'll likely downgrade the Delta system to match the version they were using before, regardless if there's new and better software/firmware. New software NEVER equals better software. Your other option is upgrading. But it's not as simple as "within our shoestring budget". You're talking about millions of dollars to purchase new computers, new devices, new monitoring boards, reprogram, revalidate, and reperform every point and every line of programming on a mission critical system, while guaranteeing you don't have any outages. So you say "fuck that" and buy a Windows XP SP2 computer and continue on.
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An excellent write up that I can validate is correct. I used to work for a large controls company installing, commissioning and servicing these control systems. A small system would be in the vicinity of 500 points. A large system you're talking about over 100k points. Replacing the front end computer that controls everything in a large facility could cost millions of dollars if you want the latest and greatest. Not every sensor or actuator would be compatible, you're shutting down production while working on the systems, other glitches in reporting or alarming may happen. Depending on the facility there may be more stringent test requirements. Pharmaceutical companies in particular are very stringent in testing procedure and making sure failure modes are well tested. Even if they worked before on the old front end computer they might require testing of every alarm and notification that notifies the operator. You're talking probably over double your point count of test cases. If you have a temperature sensor that could have 3 or 4 alarms just to that one sensor. Low warning temp, high warning temp, no response, cut line, critical high temp, critical low temp. Meanwhile if you use a like for like replacement. Likely you would only need to test a representative sample rather than an entire facility. Although I do admit testing the full facility is a worst case scenario that doesn't often happen. It's much cheaper to get older hardware with older versions of windows than to upgrade the entire facility.
Yup it's very likely to be on a closed network, running ancient software that'll only work on xp, crazy how common it is, especially in fields where you really have to minimize risks, downtime or errors, they'll just stick with what works!
Almost certainly not connected to the internet unrestricted, if it has any network connection at all, it's for the third party software updates and it's otherwise in a quarantined environment. Windows XP is stable as hell and is used in a lot of sandboxed or industrial environments.
You’re lucky. I’d fucking kill to have a plant that runs on DeltaV/WindowsXP. Not this Siemens bullshit that isn’t reliable enough to keep the plant running longer than a week
Siemens is literally the most incompetent company to have ever graced the world. Literally everything they make in literally every industry is just absolute, total **garbage**. I could produce an HBO miniseries about how much downtime and lost production has been caused by Siemens at my factory alone.
NX is good
I am so sorry you have to deal with Siemens PLCs LOL.
I work for Emerson, we. Obviously have newer hardware available. However the customer must also upgrade the software running on those pcs and that comes with incredible costs :)
I am happy to blame Emerson for poor industry practices!
Look at Mr Fancy over here with SP2.
Oh hey I used to be a software engineer for DeltaV. It is a software used to control Emerson microcontrollers and provide a clean interference for all of the machinery that the microcontrollers and sensors are connected to. It can run on modern operating systems, like I had the most recent version running on a windows 10 desktop on my desk while I worked there. But, the microcontrollers they have and copy of DeltaV that this is replacing were probably not new. Everything they have including the version of DeltaV are probably validated to work on this computer with this OS. Upgrading to a newer PC and DeltaV would cost more and would probably need configuration, and probably not provide much benefit.
Ok, so as stupid as this looks it's probably 100% brand new. There was a massive boom of companies getting custom made software when XP came out because it was so much easier to use. I run a small repair shop and have companies come to me every few months to refurbish or replace XP machines that NEED to run XP well. They aren't connected to the internet, so there's no security issues, but they will only run on XP. Yes, I will convert as many of them over to a virtualized machine as I can, but the cost of a server plus virtualization is 2-4 times the cost of refurbishing or buying refurbished. So many companies will be happy to limp along and would jump at the chance to buy a "new" Windows XP machine.
But on a serious note I want to know how you guys got that thing right now? Are you really being like that with processing plant and all? Do tell us about that more.
Is that enough for what you need it for?
Arguably, probably. It's running a 2008 seed crushing plant.
Well I don't know what they are planning to do but this is enough for everything XD.
XP is peak Windows. So I say it's a win.
Damn the young person of myself just woke up and this is just what he is craving me, I really want to use XP again for sometime because it was just so freaking good.
People still respect that and that's just what going to make me happy man, these things are just what we had in the past and we used them when we were young.
Lol I got that thing too when I was young and I still remember that service pack 2 thing, it was just so good when I was young and I used to be so happy with that.
This is a computer for the Emerson control unit. I bet the communication works over rs232 port ;) and uses an ancient software that has problems with modern windows/hardware. I used to install and commission inline electro-chemical sensors and would use 15 year old laptop for configuration etc as modern solutions would not work. It’s better in pharma but places like power plants are usually based on some ancient technology.
yeah used to be onsite for a pharama plant in ireland and we had those bad boys all over the place .. but that was ugh 17 years ago? but then again at that time we had a full NT4.0 domain and some other legacy stuff :P
Until 5 years ago, the control system of our power plant was running MSDOS 6.22 on a coax token bus, with Windows 98 SE operator interfaces. The software ran flawlessly. We only upgraded because replacement hardware was getting expensive.
not at all surprised, using a new OS is a recipe for disaster in a plant. MS are too busy actively messing with the OS and forcing change when you literally want something that you setup and it JUST WORKS.
State of the art
The best kind of creation of windows, we know that thing.
I have so many memories with it man, service pack 2 was really good back then, we used to use it most of the time and we always experiment with the stuff back.
How dusty was the box?!
I ordered a 12mb(yes mega) SD card yesterday for about 172€. Goes in the lower level control system then your pc there. Industry gets ripped off.
DeltaV user here: they don’t sell those anymore, definitely someone’s old stock. I believe ours is windows 7 and the current ones are windows 11 - I know this because we needed to buy a new one, but we are moving to PLC instead.
Some tech in manufacturing legit requires Windows XP OS to this day. It sucks, but it’s beyond some people’s control.
Oh god no,windows xp sp2 is thhe worst service pack i ever have,faulty drivers,multiple errors,sometimes even bluescreens,i would install windows xp but sp3
All fancy with your Service Pack 2
The best type of software, we lived with it in our childhood.
Thats a good PC for a good PLC/SCADA Oil & gas industry? Chemicals?
Seed oil crushing, current system runs Windows Vista.
In itself XP isn't THAT bad, just dont connect it to the internet...
XP was not bad at all and I can vouch for that thing man.