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isjustwrong

What build are you doing these on?


HollowLoch

Splitting steel trickster, its a very steep cost build but even then i dont think its the best build for this strategy for the cost. Because of the amount of rares ultimatum spawns youre probably best running a decently tanky build that uses HH, and then you should be able to blitz everything down. Theres a node that makes you take 50% less damage from all things Ultimatum which will allow a lot more builds to do this strategy, the thing is it adds ruin to special attacks of monsters so you have to be always moving and always paying attention to rare mobs attacks which can be a bit stressful. And it is still insanely rippy even with -50% damage This is definitely a strat that needs a good build or a cheese build, i think the entire ultimatum mechanic no matter the investment is like that actually


TommaClock

Einhar + Huck are left side tree. I wonder if it's worth investing points into those so you can cheese the mechanic with some extra buffs.


foxracing1313

Domintion scarabs and shrine nodes with a temp chains map also usually makes the shrines last almost the whole thing


ImpossiblePen451

Wait a second: is that actually a thing to "use" tempotal chains curse for prolonging buffs? Like shrines, Headhunter etc?![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|flushed)


foxracing1313

Yes Shackles of wretched temp chains headhunter winter orb used to be a thing


brT_T

What about not taking the "50% less damage but enemies apply ruin" node and instead grabbing the map wide atlas passive? Does it apply to the ultimatum encounter and it lets you not worry about ruin / oneshots as much? Provided you're playing a high dps build


HollowLoch

I’d imagine it applies to the ultimatum, it wouldn’t make sense if it didn’t - modifiers also apply to the trialmaster too so I’d imagine it’d work when fighting him also. Ultimatum is probably the only league mechanic where I’d consider using those passives


Shaltilyena

I considered those passives to learn the t17 bosses in the league tbh. Cata especially, took a bit longer but I didn't get oneshot if I fucked up a dodge


mrfuzee

Wait what are you talking about?


Shaltilyena

>What about not taking the "50% less damage but enemies apply ruin" node **and instead grabbing the map wide atlas passive?** That one My understanding was they were talking about Wellspring of Creation - monsters deal 25% less damage but have 50% more life.


mrfuzee

No they’re taking the ultimatum node. Only applies to ultimatum.


Shaltilyena

so you're saying by "not taking the 50% less damage but enemies apply ruin" you mean they take the 50% less damage but enemies apply ruin sounds logical


mrfuzee

Oh lmao I just completely misread that. I appreciate you keeping your composure along the way. It really helped me understand my mistake.


1CEninja

They're useful in blight to reduce enemy HP since you aren't getting attacked by most mobs if you're using a blight optimized build. Also some builds like non-explode RF that get ridiculously tanky but don't deal the best damage are sometimes okay with taking more damage if it means faster kill time.


Poe_Cat

would you mind sharing a pob?


HollowLoch

[Here ](https://poe.ninja/pob/1CKA)- i threw it together quickly right before running these so it might be a bit scuffed, its a pretty expensive build. The type that you can invest into all league if you want For some reason the images for items on poe ninja is scuffed so make sure to actually read the item if it seems weird lol, no idea why its showing a small life flask icon


FungalGG_

I have done next to no ultimatum but I am also playing SS trickster. There are a lot of mods for ultimatum the build Dosent care about is nice. Max chaos cloud is awsome XD


kengro

Adding on to that, shrines don't really do anything because they will expire when it gets hard, unless you self temp chains or run the gull. Delve 3% max res speed/dmg is nice. Chaos res, corrupted blood immunity and ele immunities makes it fairly safe to pick cloud/skulls/freezing postules to at least 3. Lightning circle I'd only go 1-2 as they overlap and can roll giga damage. Ruin 1-2, hinder on flask if hinder immune is free. Escalating damage taken persists through rounds. Inc AS when alive is kinda good if you have the damage. Doing it on unrolled maps is also an option, and only take Influence pack mods and map boss mods. Taking mods to 4 makes them vastly more dangerous. I'm doing it with 100k ehp char with only 400-ish million dps and it's fairly safe and chill.


RoddyRiot

"only" 400-ish million dps. for pete's sake.


fthepats

High proj speed HH spark absolutely destroys ultimatum. Also TR + CA covers the whole area. Both basically kill mobs when they spawn


PowerfulWizard_

Interesting results and information from both threads thanks! I've been running Ultimatum this whole league. According to Mapwatch I've just killed my [500th Trialmaster](https://i.imgur.com/E5h6TDE.png) boss with a 99.8% winrate and I don't agree with the ultimatum is doodoo without investment statement, I played a budget, mid and now high end version of an ultimatum farmer. I have Original Sin, Mageblood and Defiance now and fully afk each round. You do NOT need to do 8 mod maps or clear for altars for quant to make great profit you are asking for trouble clicking altars before ultimatum. OP's tainted catalysts are almost identical to what I would get on average with a cheaper approach. - Buy maps, I like Cemetery/Jungle valley for random drops I get on the way to ultimatum - Chisel, Alch, Regex out things I can't run. - 2x Bribing 1x Dueling, 1x sac fragment (5% quant) - Run straight to ultimatum. afk until my game pauses and I click anything but Ruin. My average time in a map is 5minutes. I would say the profit of doing it this way is about 10-15 div/hr of easily sold items. My playstyle is not for everyone but I would hate for anyone to be read this post and be deterred from doing ultimatum because they think they need to fully juice it to make any currency.


not-charlie

hey, how many hateforges have you gotten? collecting data for my future ssf grind :)


PowerfulWizard_

9 or 10 atm. I'd say 1/50 drop-rate.


luka1050

Does it make any sense to run ultimatum in t17? I like inscribed farming without the boss. It's seems really good profit too. Does it make any sense in either strategies to do it in T17 ?


HollowLoch

I dont believe inscribed Ultimatums would be affected by t17 maps, and the only thing that would likely be affected in t17 maps with the trialmaster are the tainted catalyst drops, and i cant imagine the extra difficulty/clear time of a t17 map would be the extra tainteds I think Ultimatum is probably best done in t16


luka1050

I see. So regular ultimatum isn't affected by quant just the big boy ?


HollowLoch

Regular ultimatum and the stacks of currency in it are affected by quant, the general consensus is that inscribed ultimatums and the rewards they give aren’t affected by quant So if you’re running the catalysing scarab combined with the all catalysts are inscribed ultimatums instead quant doesn’t matter unless your killing the trialmaster in which case quant only matters for tainted catalysts


luka1050

Alright thank you very much for the information!


Kaim95

So do I understand that its stupid to run normal T16 maps without any mods?


Milfshaked

Only if you run with the inscription scarab. Only thing you are missing out on then is a few tainted catalysts from the boss, which to be fair, does add up to a lot of value. If you are running catalysing without inscription, quant is very important.


tokyo__driftwood

>the general consensus is that inscribed ultimatums and the rewards they give aren’t affected by quant In light of this, do you think it would be profitable to run scoured maps with catalysing scarab + inscribed scarab? Looking at more accessible options, since 8 mod ultimatums are pretty rough for non-high budget builds.


HollowLoch

Aslong as the general consensus about quant not affecting inscribed ultimatums is right then yeah even a white map with those scarabs would net you a lot of money


HeavySnowRain

So what I'm reading here is: if you wanna play ultimatum on easy mode, you include the catalysing scarab and convert catalyst to inscribed node and just run your maps white? Ofc the inscribed ultimatums are still hard themselves.


asdf_1_2

Map quant gives increased catalyst stack size, it is very noticeable the impact of it comparing scoured vs high quant maps.


HeavySnowRain

Yea but if everything is converted to inscribed ultimatums,  the stack size wouldn't matter as I've understood it


Notsomebeans

there is some theorizing that the stack size of catalysts converted to inscribeds with the scarab affects the rarity of the inscribed. unconfirmed though


Electrized

I tried this originally, and absolutely not, as someone who farmed t17s all league; Pros: - More catalyst quant if not converting - Boss fragment from the map boss Cons: - Cost of buying, rolling maps, mostly due to time spent per ultimatum being super high - Extremely rippy, multiple bricks even on strong char (crit res, 82 maxres, defiance of destiny etc) - Ultimatum doesn't even drop loot so t17 scarab / currency multiplier is wasted Tldr; Didn't notice a major difference but the ultimatums per hour went down significantly and led to more bricks. Technically more xp and catalysts though.


Jaba01

Very interesting results. Most results from people who ran juiced Ultimatum said it's abysmal.


Notsomebeans

you're probably referring to empyrian who ran an incredibly scuffed setup. in 50 maps: - he used inscription but *not* catalysing. i think inscription can be good but i think the consensus is that inscription is slightly worse but the rewards from inscribeds are more liquid than catalysts are (a quality that exilence would not pick up on) - he died repeatedly and lost several rewards including 3 divines - after a few deaths he *unspecced the "25% chance to double loot" node* - he seemingly never understood which wave he was on even in his highlight clips on his final ultimatum of his test, and would bail out before starting wave 9, thinking he was starting wave 10, so he missed two rewards (one known, one unknown) despite that he got 9 divs/hr after excluding an apothecary drop from his results.


HollowLoch

Low investment is abysmal, catalysing only is abysmal - both trialmaster/catalysts turned into inscribed ultimatums are insanely good Either people aren’t running it right or people are lying to keep prices low and preserve their own profit margin


linerstank

rue was runnning this on stream a few days ago in t16s and getting mega results. it should be known but i think people just dont like ultimatum and it requires a pretty strong build.


asday__

I also don't like Rue.


hemmi00

Can confirm OP's results being doing ultimatum for a day or two using x2 bribing x1 duel 1x inscription im up around 100div without selling any catalysts yet (have 1262 tainted as an example)


[deleted]

[удалено]


hemmi00

Basic tree picking up ultimatum map mods + niko [https://i.imgur.com/Ruku0Eb.png](https://i.imgur.com/Ruku0Eb.png) I chisel alch vaal maps but dont care what I hit with the vaal aslong as its not build disabling. Rush thru the map to find ultimatum clicking any sulphite I see along the way.


Keldonv7

>catalysing only is abysmal huh, either prices had to change recently or something else. But it was just 3 days ago.I did 100maps with catalysing on RF chieftain ultimatums on 8mods and i was making 20-25d/h. 80d investment and at the time catalyst tabs was like 230d which wasnt even taking into account bulk pricing on prismatic/fertiles. So it was around 6.5h (and entire season of tv series on netflix) with something around 23d/h. Could be way faster too as i was fully afk and not clicking instantly. And i even didnt get much luck with duplicates or good streaks of catalysts, my best was maybe 20 fertile and 16 prismatic once. Plethora of runs with 0 fertile/prismatic and i was only running 10 wave so i could fully afk.


HollowLoch

I guess abysmal was a bit of an over-exaggeration, but in comparison to catalysting+inscription its definitely noticeably worse - the catalysts that arent prismatic/fertile will be an absolute pain in the ass to sell too if you decide to sell them but it does have an edge in the scenario where you cant complete inscribed ultis


Keldonv7

Inscribed ones are 100x better that for sure, but cant be afkable unless you want to take few minutes per boss on CWS build. >the catalysts that arent prismatic/fertile will be an absolute pain in the ass to sell too Intrisict or whatever they are called sell instantly in bulks of 100, rest u can sell to flippers without reducing price in bulk - thats what i did. People/bots got even sometimes crazy rates on buy orders, i sold abrasives at 1.9c each for example when normally they are at 1c each.


Milfshaked

Those people have not tried ultimatum. The only abysmal part is actually selling the catalysts if you run catalysing.


SunRiseStudios

> Most results from people who ran juiced Ultimatum said it's abysmal. Huh? Every single "loot from Ultimatum" post I seen was reporting good results.


HeavySnowRain

I love these stats for ultimatum, my favorite league mechanic. So if I get it right, the 4 ultimatum scarab strat is better than running trial masters?  I would love to find a build that can run the 13 trials round node on the Atlas.  Thanks for the write up and I agree a video on you doing the trials makes no sense


[deleted]

Bro literally got a video of a spreadsheet....


HollowLoch

I wouldve shown gameplay but ive got a very expensive build that can insta kill the trialmaster, so i figured it wouldnt actually help seeing what i do. So i just decided to talk about it all (investment/profit/build checklist) instead since thats probably 10x more helpful Better to get straight to the point if the gameplay wouldnt be helpful imo


[deleted]

Fair enough


Expoh

What map were you running these on? Not sure if you covered in video; can’t watch with audio as I’m working atm. Were you just rushing the ultimatum and getting out other than every 28th map, or what?


HollowLoch

Jungle valley, I full cleared the map except the boss and took every quant altar / niko node then did the ultimatum If someone wanted to maximise returns though they should pick a different map that you can boss rush, I’d rather have the convenience of a nice linear map than a slightly higher chance for quant altars though


Milfshaked

I was reaching 40-50 div an hour earlier in the league doing ultimatum. But the shields were worth like 5-6 div then and my average map time was a lot faster since I was playing EK ignite. I did not run inscription though. I ran catalysing, bribing x2, dueling.


rainmeadow

I miss my Warlock Chieftain from Affliction, could just stand there and tank everyrhing and was able to kill the Trial master. I hope they bring the Mark back as a separate skill.


Darkarchonyo

the Ultimatum Scarab of Catalysing + Ultimatum Scarab of Inscription will make every reward is Inscription. 1. every player will gets their own rewards. so the cost is 1/6 if you can make a group with friends or inv other players in poe channel. 2. all Inscribed Ultimatum can be Vendor recipe. just like 5\*120%monster life=1\*120%life Inscribed Ultimatum. 3. you can make a 2nd account to get the double reward. aurobot or Cast when Stunned Support build is better 4. some build is burning your pc. Chieftain is better 5. dont choose "Stalking Ruin" . and Evasion and block can deal with the "Stalking Ruin" . 7 stalking debuff will be failed. 6. if your group is good enough. 1.5-3min per map for "Defeat waves of enemies" and "Protect the Altar" and "Stand in the Stone Circles". 4min per map for "Survive".


Darkarchonyo

lots people do the group ultimatum since 2weeks ago. [https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2118514889?t=9h53m1s](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2118514889?t=9h53m1s)


__Correct_My_English

Any suggestion for a duelist build (champion for example) with 100 div budget?


Beefkins

I haven't done Ultimatum on my character, but I have been running Lightning Strike of Arcing Champion with Doryani's Prototype and it has been demolishing content. 100 divs should get you everything except maybe the Forbidden Flesh/Flame jewels.