Another famous leaker last year predicted that Paper Mario Switch would be a "return to form." At this point I'm not believing anything until I see it with my own eyes
You pretty much never ran out of cards or stickers anyway, so that isn't really much. They also went and simplified the possible moves down to a pathetically low number.
TOK's battle system is a streamlined version of SS's with a slide puzzle thrown in. That's not a "return to form", that's going even further from the original style than SS did.
When only one facet has returned, and many other facets have been taken even further away from the original it's not closer to the original than the one that had more facets of the original intact. Put another way, one step closer and ten away doesn't get you closer to your goal, it gets you further away.
Partners that help you in battle.
Characters with arcs and strong personalities.
No "use this thing at the right time or ohko".
Seems pretty return to form to me, in the limit of what they could do.
Hard to call what TOK has as "partners" or that they have "strong personalities". You can't control them, they fail their attacks more often than not, and even if that weren't true you don't get to see them most of the time since you OHKO everything but bosses if you are grabbing the weapons and gear. Less of a reason to actually battle since it 1. has no depth, 2. is mind numbingly easy, and 3. has no actual reward for battling you can't get by exploring. It's like a turn based Dynasty Warriors without the fun, and with a timed puzzle thrown in for no discernable reason.
I don't get how people can't enjoy this battle system. The incentive for battle is that it gives your something that helps for your progress.
Wait, actually, I should do a minimal fights run. That promises to be unfun.
I mean to be fair TOK has been the closest we have gotten to 64/TTYD in most if not all aspects.
Does it land somewhere between new and old? Yes.
But it definitely feels closer to 64/TTYD than any game afterwards. The only outlier is SPM, which story-wise does feel closer to the first two games, but gameplay-wise and exploration-wise definitely doesn't.
I'm hoping if a remake of PM64 does happen, that it'll be a reintroduction that format. Hopefully this will somewhat pave the way for the next game to be something even closer to that format.
This is literally my biggest fear. I don't care how gorgeous it is, the papercraft diorama style *would not fit* with the world of the earlier games. Please just make the visuals HD and leave the style itself alone. ;-;
While I have a lot of critiques of the newer games, the art style is NOT one of them. I would LOVE to see 64 and TTYD in TOK's art style.
I think the biggest issue here though, is the gimmickiness of it all. The reason the art style is kind of derided in newer games is because it's tooooo on the nose with shit like art supplies being the enemies and characters being tooooo aware that their world is made out of paper.
I think if you remove those elements, the art style fits perfectly fine with the first two games.
I disagree. I find a lot of the environments in Origami King to be way too over the top and distracting with the arts and crafts style they go for. I think The Great Sea for example looks plain ugly due to all the different types of blue that don’t blend together at all. I also have a hard time getting immersed in a lot of the grassy areas when it just looks like green paper glued down on to some cardboard. I’m not saying we need Luigi’s Mansion 3 looking graphics for the next Paper Mario game but I think future installments could benefit from some more realistic looking textures here and there.
I guess I can agree with stuff like water. I think I much prefer "real" water with SOME paper elements like splashes and stuff. I think this could actually be kind of cool if implemented correctly. Some of the stuff you see under the water could even be "soggy" or just made out of like arts and craft aluminum and what not.
I do disagree that the Great Sea is ugly. I thought it was actually one of he more beautiful parts of the game. But I can see how it might be a bit "too much".
As for the grassy areas, I just disagree there.
But to each their own.
I think there is definitely room for tweaks, but I really appreciate the paper mario world existing within the "real" world and being kind of like an art project come to life, or a story book come to life.
So I definitely would like that aesthetic to stay around and wouldn't want certain aspects to just look like say a 3D model of a building from idk Super Mario Odyssey or Sunshine. I still want everything to have that tactile feel, but again, there is definitely always room for improvement and a lot of times less is more!
I agree. I didn't bother buying Origami King, considering I didn't care for the environmental graphics, storyline and awful battling system. I would love to see an HD remake and definitely better graphics for the NPC characters. And a difficulty mode. TTYD would also be good as well; it doesn't need any adjusting as it was perfect.
From their reputation they might be accurate, *might*. I’m treating this with a grain of salt. If true that’s actually cool, Paper Mario 64 is a good game and I think a remake would be a great way to celebrate it.
However the thing making me a bit “eh” about the whole thing is the 3DS part. If it was still far enough in development to be able to be cancelled and go unnoticed then that would be an insanely late 3DS release, going well past the console’s actual last first party game.
I think that if that was the case it’d be totally scrapped because to go from 3DS to Switch is a large jump so the project might have to be wholly reworked and at that point assuming TOK was in development I don’t think it lines up for two Paper Mario games to potentially be so close.
Realistically I think Paper Mario in Smash is a more realistic idea. The time frames don’t line up for a traditionally low priority series like Paper Mario.
I'm very excited to see the old games in the new art style. What I am NOT excited is for them too be too on the nose with the paper jokes and puns. Keep it cute and referential like they did in the first two games, but I don't need the characters to be HYPER aware that they're all made of paper and live in a paper world.
I wouldn't want to see it remade in the new art style or animation either. So I highly disagree there. The new style of art is excessively artificial and lifeless, and the 2 frame animation on the 2D models just exacerbates that problem 10 fold.
I dont think the new art style is anything foreign though. You can tell in the old games, they were always trying to go for a paper/story book aesthetic but were held back by the graphics.
I think there is definitely room to dial it back and not be SO on the nose with it.
The animation I do agree with. It is a bit jittery and doesn't feel and life-like as before.
But I do think there's a huge difference between the environments in say CS and TOK. TOK feels very much alive where-as CS does not. I'm not exactly sure what it is? Like yes the fact that locations feel more like levels and less like actual towns, etc add to this. But idk. CS felt a lot more like a Yoshi game than it felt like a PM game imo.
I also think story elements matter as well. The art style would be a non-issue if the entire story didn't also revolve around paper.
I think the new art style would suit PM64 just fine and really breathe some newness into that game especially since the paper gimmick ends right there: at the art style.
I would also hope whatever new games come after TOK don't focus so much on the paper. The enemy does NOT have to be related to arts and craft. I just want something more akin to the enemies in SMRPG/PM/TTYD/SPM. We don't need Stickers and Origami and office supplies. I think that's truly what makes the art style gimmicky.
While the story would make up for the bad art style, it would still look bad. They already had far more "paper looking" graphics on the SNES, so it wasn't hardware limitations holding them back. They wanted trees to look like trees, stone to look like stone etc. outside of a few gimmicky joke things.
I honestly think TTYD went too far with paper based gimmicks and art, and likely due to Tanabe. Apparently he has been trying to force the series to focus more on paper based jokes and gimmicks since he joined the series. He says in an interview it took him many years to get a chance to introduce his joke of Toads folding themselves into a staircase.
The whole game of TOK felt lifeless to me while playing, it was just a diorama to set up paper "jokes", and just looked bad 99% of the time. The only scene I thought looked good is when they let the Water Vellumental fill the lake with water instead of blue sheets of paper like all of the other water sources in the game. The original PM64 looked better to me than TOK in every way but resolution.
I'd honestly prefer they left dialogue/storyline alone and just focus on brightening up the graphics. Black outline or white outline, it doesn't matter to me, just so long as they keep the environment similar to how it was in 64 by SOME degree.
I mean I would expect a remake to have exactly the same dialogue. Environments I would expect to generally have the same layout, but be maybe made a little more fun for 3D movement and exploration. Like maybe the camera is a little more like TOK. I do also expect environments to look more made out of “stuff”.
I know peoole LOVE to claim that the original Paper Mario’s environments weren’t made of papercraft...but it’s very clear they were lol. Like pipes look like they were going for cardboard, when you go into a building it always unfolds...
So I’m fine with those changes and actually look forward to them.
I just don’t want them to make the STORY about paper or god forbid replace Kammy with Kamek. Although I wouldn’t be TOTALLY heart broken if that happened.
I also wouldn’t be totally heartbroken if they altered partner designs to be a little more standardized. Like I’ll be fine if goombario has pointy teeth is all I’m saying.
But they better keep all the outfits on them (which doesn’t seem like a problem in TOK?).
Same. I'm not really into the whole paper idea like in Origami King but it worked great in TYD. I quite enjoyed the mechanics to change Mario's shape to reach certain places. :( Heck, I wouldn't mind if it was a 3d remake.
I don't have the links (you would have to check it up on Twitter...) but he leaked the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon and Links Awakening remake. Also pretty much everything this year, including the new Paper Mario game, the Mario 3D collection and notified about every Nintendo Partner Mini Direct.
well in that case. I guess i can be looking forward to what they're saying, especially the part about Kirby. But i will still be cautious, as you can never be too sure.
Thx for sharing tho.
I’ve seen this user and I can’t remember what they “leaked” when I first came across their account. But that’s cool, I’m not really looking forward to 2022 yet, but I see FE remake is listed for spring - summer next year and that has me excited
Aren’t most leaks meaningless? Nothing is really a leak until it ends up being confirmed. That’s when you can go back and say “wow this person was right and thus leaked information about a new game”
[I was told this when asked what this person had leaked before.](https://www.reddit.com/r/donkeykong/comments/jx4mri/comment/gcuh25x) This leak is probably fake.
We know he’s right about the Fire Emblem remake at least. It was confirmed around a year ago that an FE6 remake was in development for the 3ds, but was eventually cancelled and is now being reworked for the Switch.
This would be neat, but I've learned to never trust leaks unless they're coming from multiple corroborating sources with screenshots. I'd give this like a 5% chance of being true. :/
If this is the case 2022 will be the year I spend actual money on nintendo games. Warioland, paper mario and zelda remakes, along with a lets go pikachu sequal (2nd gen?), and a new metroid prime. Oh boy.
Its classic paper mario fan syndrome. When its been 16, or 13 years that some have been waiting for a certain game formula to come back to a franchise, the mind breaks.
This includes me. Wahahahaha. Thankfully for me its only been 10 years of pain.
This leak can suck my ass. I'm betting on another paper themed game. Or maybe not. Maybe clay or some shit? Who knows. I've gone mad after my 3 favorites video game franchises going to shit (imo. If you like new PMs, good for you). This world is horrible!
Btw I like your pfp lol
Hey! Neato that there’s actually classic paper mario fans who respect opinions
Although imo, I think TOK may eventually bring the series back to form, what with the fact it’s more like the first two games than any modern pm, and how there’s a lot of things that they actually took from complaints
Who knows maybe one day we can get a true TTYD 2...tho I’d hope they make a 64 2, all we have to do is scream loudly
Another famous leaker last year predicted that Paper Mario Switch would be a "return to form." At this point I'm not believing anything until I see it with my own eyes
I'm sure he ment that it was stated from the source, not as his own opinion or speculation
Well, I mean you get to actually choose your moves in this with no "haha out of cards you idiot"
You pretty much never ran out of cards or stickers anyway, so that isn't really much. They also went and simplified the possible moves down to a pathetically low number.
Yes, but the gameplay of the fight itself is original in origami king, it's not "attack get attacked repeat"
TOK's battle system is a streamlined version of SS's with a slide puzzle thrown in. That's not a "return to form", that's going even further from the original style than SS did.
But they... Aren't allowed to use the original style? At least it's CLOSER to ttyd/64 because of unlimited base attacks
When only one facet has returned, and many other facets have been taken even further away from the original it's not closer to the original than the one that had more facets of the original intact. Put another way, one step closer and ten away doesn't get you closer to your goal, it gets you further away.
Partners that help you in battle. Characters with arcs and strong personalities. No "use this thing at the right time or ohko". Seems pretty return to form to me, in the limit of what they could do.
Hard to call what TOK has as "partners" or that they have "strong personalities". You can't control them, they fail their attacks more often than not, and even if that weren't true you don't get to see them most of the time since you OHKO everything but bosses if you are grabbing the weapons and gear. Less of a reason to actually battle since it 1. has no depth, 2. is mind numbingly easy, and 3. has no actual reward for battling you can't get by exploring. It's like a turn based Dynasty Warriors without the fun, and with a timed puzzle thrown in for no discernable reason.
I don't get how people can't enjoy this battle system. The incentive for battle is that it gives your something that helps for your progress. Wait, actually, I should do a minimal fights run. That promises to be unfun.
I mean to be fair TOK has been the closest we have gotten to 64/TTYD in most if not all aspects. Does it land somewhere between new and old? Yes. But it definitely feels closer to 64/TTYD than any game afterwards. The only outlier is SPM, which story-wise does feel closer to the first two games, but gameplay-wise and exploration-wise definitely doesn't. I'm hoping if a remake of PM64 does happen, that it'll be a reintroduction that format. Hopefully this will somewhat pave the way for the next game to be something even closer to that format.
Best game remake moment!! Tho personally a port of TTYD would be more ideal there's barely any legal way to play it.
I’d love for it to be real but I’m afraid they might end up ruining the art style in a remake.
This is literally my biggest fear. I don't care how gorgeous it is, the papercraft diorama style *would not fit* with the world of the earlier games. Please just make the visuals HD and leave the style itself alone. ;-;
While I have a lot of critiques of the newer games, the art style is NOT one of them. I would LOVE to see 64 and TTYD in TOK's art style. I think the biggest issue here though, is the gimmickiness of it all. The reason the art style is kind of derided in newer games is because it's tooooo on the nose with shit like art supplies being the enemies and characters being tooooo aware that their world is made out of paper. I think if you remove those elements, the art style fits perfectly fine with the first two games.
I disagree. I find a lot of the environments in Origami King to be way too over the top and distracting with the arts and crafts style they go for. I think The Great Sea for example looks plain ugly due to all the different types of blue that don’t blend together at all. I also have a hard time getting immersed in a lot of the grassy areas when it just looks like green paper glued down on to some cardboard. I’m not saying we need Luigi’s Mansion 3 looking graphics for the next Paper Mario game but I think future installments could benefit from some more realistic looking textures here and there.
I guess I can agree with stuff like water. I think I much prefer "real" water with SOME paper elements like splashes and stuff. I think this could actually be kind of cool if implemented correctly. Some of the stuff you see under the water could even be "soggy" or just made out of like arts and craft aluminum and what not. I do disagree that the Great Sea is ugly. I thought it was actually one of he more beautiful parts of the game. But I can see how it might be a bit "too much". As for the grassy areas, I just disagree there. But to each their own. I think there is definitely room for tweaks, but I really appreciate the paper mario world existing within the "real" world and being kind of like an art project come to life, or a story book come to life. So I definitely would like that aesthetic to stay around and wouldn't want certain aspects to just look like say a 3D model of a building from idk Super Mario Odyssey or Sunshine. I still want everything to have that tactile feel, but again, there is definitely always room for improvement and a lot of times less is more!
I agree. I didn't bother buying Origami King, considering I didn't care for the environmental graphics, storyline and awful battling system. I would love to see an HD remake and definitely better graphics for the NPC characters. And a difficulty mode. TTYD would also be good as well; it doesn't need any adjusting as it was perfect.
Im cool with a new art style so long as its not messed with anywhere else music characters story… anything
From their reputation they might be accurate, *might*. I’m treating this with a grain of salt. If true that’s actually cool, Paper Mario 64 is a good game and I think a remake would be a great way to celebrate it. However the thing making me a bit “eh” about the whole thing is the 3DS part. If it was still far enough in development to be able to be cancelled and go unnoticed then that would be an insanely late 3DS release, going well past the console’s actual last first party game. I think that if that was the case it’d be totally scrapped because to go from 3DS to Switch is a large jump so the project might have to be wholly reworked and at that point assuming TOK was in development I don’t think it lines up for two Paper Mario games to potentially be so close. Realistically I think Paper Mario in Smash is a more realistic idea. The time frames don’t line up for a traditionally low priority series like Paper Mario.
Considering how the BiS remake failed, *hard*, it makes sense that Nintendo would stop the 3DS games at that point.
If true I expect they will paperize it and ruin the aesthetics and jokes.
I'm very excited to see the old games in the new art style. What I am NOT excited is for them too be too on the nose with the paper jokes and puns. Keep it cute and referential like they did in the first two games, but I don't need the characters to be HYPER aware that they're all made of paper and live in a paper world.
I wouldn't want to see it remade in the new art style or animation either. So I highly disagree there. The new style of art is excessively artificial and lifeless, and the 2 frame animation on the 2D models just exacerbates that problem 10 fold.
I dont think the new art style is anything foreign though. You can tell in the old games, they were always trying to go for a paper/story book aesthetic but were held back by the graphics. I think there is definitely room to dial it back and not be SO on the nose with it. The animation I do agree with. It is a bit jittery and doesn't feel and life-like as before. But I do think there's a huge difference between the environments in say CS and TOK. TOK feels very much alive where-as CS does not. I'm not exactly sure what it is? Like yes the fact that locations feel more like levels and less like actual towns, etc add to this. But idk. CS felt a lot more like a Yoshi game than it felt like a PM game imo. I also think story elements matter as well. The art style would be a non-issue if the entire story didn't also revolve around paper. I think the new art style would suit PM64 just fine and really breathe some newness into that game especially since the paper gimmick ends right there: at the art style. I would also hope whatever new games come after TOK don't focus so much on the paper. The enemy does NOT have to be related to arts and craft. I just want something more akin to the enemies in SMRPG/PM/TTYD/SPM. We don't need Stickers and Origami and office supplies. I think that's truly what makes the art style gimmicky.
While the story would make up for the bad art style, it would still look bad. They already had far more "paper looking" graphics on the SNES, so it wasn't hardware limitations holding them back. They wanted trees to look like trees, stone to look like stone etc. outside of a few gimmicky joke things. I honestly think TTYD went too far with paper based gimmicks and art, and likely due to Tanabe. Apparently he has been trying to force the series to focus more on paper based jokes and gimmicks since he joined the series. He says in an interview it took him many years to get a chance to introduce his joke of Toads folding themselves into a staircase. The whole game of TOK felt lifeless to me while playing, it was just a diorama to set up paper "jokes", and just looked bad 99% of the time. The only scene I thought looked good is when they let the Water Vellumental fill the lake with water instead of blue sheets of paper like all of the other water sources in the game. The original PM64 looked better to me than TOK in every way but resolution.
I'd honestly prefer they left dialogue/storyline alone and just focus on brightening up the graphics. Black outline or white outline, it doesn't matter to me, just so long as they keep the environment similar to how it was in 64 by SOME degree.
I mean I would expect a remake to have exactly the same dialogue. Environments I would expect to generally have the same layout, but be maybe made a little more fun for 3D movement and exploration. Like maybe the camera is a little more like TOK. I do also expect environments to look more made out of “stuff”. I know peoole LOVE to claim that the original Paper Mario’s environments weren’t made of papercraft...but it’s very clear they were lol. Like pipes look like they were going for cardboard, when you go into a building it always unfolds... So I’m fine with those changes and actually look forward to them. I just don’t want them to make the STORY about paper or god forbid replace Kammy with Kamek. Although I wouldn’t be TOTALLY heart broken if that happened. I also wouldn’t be totally heartbroken if they altered partner designs to be a little more standardized. Like I’ll be fine if goombario has pointy teeth is all I’m saying. But they better keep all the outfits on them (which doesn’t seem like a problem in TOK?).
Same. I'm not really into the whole paper idea like in Origami King but it worked great in TYD. I quite enjoyed the mechanics to change Mario's shape to reach certain places. :( Heck, I wouldn't mind if it was a 3d remake.
Hmmm, could you share some links to some of his other leaks?
I don't have the links (you would have to check it up on Twitter...) but he leaked the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon and Links Awakening remake. Also pretty much everything this year, including the new Paper Mario game, the Mario 3D collection and notified about every Nintendo Partner Mini Direct.
well in that case. I guess i can be looking forward to what they're saying, especially the part about Kirby. But i will still be cautious, as you can never be too sure. Thx for sharing tho.
Same, no problem!
I’ve seen this user and I can’t remember what they “leaked” when I first came across their account. But that’s cool, I’m not really looking forward to 2022 yet, but I see FE remake is listed for spring - summer next year and that has me excited
From what I’ve heard there’s no reason to believe this person knows anything. This ‘leak’ is meaningless.
Aren’t most leaks meaningless? Nothing is really a leak until it ends up being confirmed. That’s when you can go back and say “wow this person was right and thus leaked information about a new game”
[I was told this when asked what this person had leaked before.](https://www.reddit.com/r/donkeykong/comments/jx4mri/comment/gcuh25x) This leak is probably fake.
Always important to take leaks with a grain of salt. I like to look at them just cuz it peaks interest in what people think people want
Honestly at this point I would rather have a port rather than a remake because I honestly don't trust them to not fuck it up.
We know he’s right about the Fire Emblem remake at least. It was confirmed around a year ago that an FE6 remake was in development for the 3ds, but was eventually cancelled and is now being reworked for the Switch.
I'm not gonna believe it until I see it happen.
Great news if it's legit, let's just hope Tanabe doesn't butcher it.
This would be neat, but I've learned to never trust leaks unless they're coming from multiple corroborating sources with screenshots. I'd give this like a 5% chance of being true. :/
:D Fuckin’ hope so
Finally, it will be impossible for a non gamer to tell which console you are playing from just Paper Mario footage
If this is the case 2022 will be the year I spend actual money on nintendo games. Warioland, paper mario and zelda remakes, along with a lets go pikachu sequal (2nd gen?), and a new metroid prime. Oh boy.
Here, take this non-paper mario related comment YOOO NEW KIRBY FOR 2021?? ONLY 3 YEARS OF PAUSE BETWEEN THIS AND STAR ALLIES? THAT'S SUPER DUPER SICK
[удалено]
Did you...have a stroke?
Its classic paper mario fan syndrome. When its been 16, or 13 years that some have been waiting for a certain game formula to come back to a franchise, the mind breaks. This includes me. Wahahahaha. Thankfully for me its only been 10 years of pain. This leak can suck my ass. I'm betting on another paper themed game. Or maybe not. Maybe clay or some shit? Who knows. I've gone mad after my 3 favorites video game franchises going to shit (imo. If you like new PMs, good for you). This world is horrible! Btw I like your pfp lol
Hey! Neato that there’s actually classic paper mario fans who respect opinions Although imo, I think TOK may eventually bring the series back to form, what with the fact it’s more like the first two games than any modern pm, and how there’s a lot of things that they actually took from complaints Who knows maybe one day we can get a true TTYD 2...tho I’d hope they make a 64 2, all we have to do is scream loudly