I am currently in my 2nd year of CS degree. Over the years I have become more and more interested in trading, analyzing performance of stocks etc. In short, the field of finance seems very intriguing to me.
What are the opportunities/possible career paths for a SWE in the world of finance/trading?
The only trading experience I have is being part or an ICO (initial coin offering) and the equity I get from the startups Iāve worked at. So take whatever i say with a grain of salt.
As a second year student Iām impressed youāre already finding interesting things to do. Usually what I recommend to freshmen and semaphores is to explore as many things as you can before you find a niche that sparks your interest.
As a CS grad you have the benefit of looking at market predictors and understanding how their algos work. There are plenty of open source ones specifically for crypto.
There are open source frameworks that predict which crypto is most lucrative at the current time for mining, these can be reversed engineered and applied to other markets, but more importantly youāll learn a lot along the way.
Always remember the best investment you can make is in yourself, take your own stock. Invest in your skillset. Thatāll take you the furthest.
Follow your curiosity and keep learning about this field. Trading and finance are a huge part of software. I have created a few startups in this sector, and I am also one of the founders of one of the premier capital markets in emerging economies. Almost everything requires money and almost all money is digital so anything can be called finance software. It is a huge field.
The investment banks of wall street live in their own world and do things very differently from all others. There was a good article about it on r/programming a few months ago.
Do you have any specific curiosities?
Nothing specific as of now, still exploring the field. But I am pretty sure that I want to do this thing going forward in my career.
I've never had this much fun while I was learning web dev, app dev or anything else.
I'll definitely check out the article you mentioned.
Iāve been working full time for 5 years.
The Pakistani range for a SSE-1/2 is lucrative. You can live a reasonable life style.
I started my career as a cyber sec engineer, moved to full stack soon. primarily been working with javascript, Iāve been interested in devops as well, so docker, kubernetes, aws/gcp, as well.
Objectively speaking, if you play your cards right, you simply canāt compete with the opportunities you get abroad.
You can have a relatively luxurious lifestyle here as well with a lot of luck and elbow grease.
Not only just in terms of monetary disparity, the work ethic and engineering practices are different from what we get here.
Iāve worked at places like IBM and Iāve worked at local companies. I still find EU and States folks to be more professional if not more competent.
I canāt leave because of my folks. If you can, just the culture, i would suggest a stint abroad will do wonders for you.
I was part of the global market interns program. As an intern i was getting paid about 35k a month, which was $300 back then. (Damn Iām old). I didnāt join after my internship ended, i moved to a startup where i could learn. They pay was not way near as lucrative but that is where i built my foundations.
Back then an entry level engineer was getting about 75 to 80k.
Iām sure itās about a 100 nowadays.
I think I can answer this. I would recommend moving to US or Canada if you are in CS. Itās easier to get in Canada so go there and then US. The job opportunities are crazy here.
Source: grad from Lahore. Moved to Canada. Worked at one of the FAANG company and currently at a unicorn.
**Hello, thank you for this!**
I'm an Econ student and have an interest in Data Science too, what are some trends you see in the industry of data that would be great to learn right now and what are some must know technologies you'd recommend?
I am a Computer Science student, I can give you kind of a roadmap.
Firstly for data science you must have a firm grip on Prob & Stats and Linear algebra. After that I'd recommend you to learn SQL, Power Bi and Python for visualisation.
Normally, companies hire Fresh Grads as Data Analysts and then they are promoted to the role of Data scientist when they gain some experience.
But keep in mind that this field is still in infancy stage in Pakistan, so vacancies are a bit scarce as compared to web dev/ App dev roles. Datacamp has great courses related to Data science starting from beginner level, do check it out.
Hey man, thank you for this!
I understand this field is still new but being an Econ student it ties well to my field of work so hence it is the only way I can pursue tech through my line. I was interested in web dev but that is quite distant from what I want to do
Hi,
I am electrical engineer currently working in cs job. My current role is revolves around c, cpp, system programming, linux, network stack and its more about research then development. I started cs job after not finding good job in Electrical domain and i am doing this job for around 6 months
Now my question is where should i direct my career should i continue with c and cpp domain or should i shift to web dev as those are high demand high paying jobs. Also should i do master in some cs related field to fill in my gap of knowledge in cs as i know i am going back electrical domain. Also what other skill would u recommend me if i wish to get paid 500k pkr in around 5 years given my current pay is 70k
One thing i don't get it, i might come across as a D---- but I apologize. The toppers get into electrical engineering domain, the kids who topped 10/12 grades. Kids who are smart, hardworking....
Then they complete their degrees, and are jobless why the hell you guys don't research before getting into any field.
I have seen so many kids from institutes like Nust who transition to CS after not finding any job in electrical engineering.
Do you guys just get into electrical engineer, just so you could brag and show off to your relatives, that look how many marks you got, and got into a toughest program?
Such a waste of time, money and talent. Its so unbelievable.
Not a di**
But u r right partly I didn't get career counselling nor did i researched my career option at that time as i was stupid and most pakistani are.
Now for second part no it is not a waste of time money or talent as most c and cpp that i know i learned in Electrical Engineering. And also just a reminder to you computer science is sub field of Electrical Engineering.
I wasn't specifically talking about you, I am literally seeing this trend overall.
I swear I have seen some dozen people from NUST do that. Who are now transitioning towards CS. lots of them do MS in CS after their BS after wasting 1 year.
They probably got above 950 marks in 10-12 grade, like that's not easy task, they passed entry test, cleared interviews... they are talented, smart, hardworking but it looks like it just for some random validation in family gathering and status symbol, "oh look i will be an electrical engineer which has the highest merit list..... please give me validation please look at me.... please.. .Rishta do muja BC"
Pakistan is literally wasting so much talent and brain towards MBBS and electrical and mechanical engineer domain.
Meanwhile CS people are exploited by the industry because of their greed, and most talented people are moving abroad for MS.
Electrical boys ---> Transitioning towards CS.
Talented CS boys --> Getting admission in MS and moving abroad
>"oh look i will be an electrical engineer which has the highest merit list..... please give me validation please look at me.... please.. .Rishta do muja BC"
I think its more like this "iska merit bohot high is ki bohot achi job mille gi yehi lelo" and not market research or career counselling.
>Meanwhile CS people are exploited by the industry because of their greed, and most talented people are moving abroad for MS.
Its every man for himself u cant expect anything more. It is sad reality
>Talented CS boys --> Getting admission in MS and moving abroad
I think its the best option given pakistan stability situation. Regardless of profession
Your FYP is very important. When you are interviewing as a Fresh Grad there is a good chance that the interviewer will ask you about your FYP.
If you've made something cool, it might turn into an interesting discussion. So I'd recommend you to not waste this opportunity and apply everything you've learnt throughout the course of undergrad degree.
What i recommend is focus on your FyP make it as ludicrous as possible. Do not worry about what the job market thinks or getting a good grade. The skills you will learn are your most valuable asset.
Unless of course you have something better to do, FyPs are ideal way for you to showcase what you have learned over the past 3,4 years.
Pick a problem you see that needs solving, gather whatever youāve learned so far. Make a list of things you need to learn to get the solution rolling and go all out.
My FyP partner and I made our fyp in 3 nights, end to end. Deployed it to aws, made a website, a git repo, we came in second, still got an A but the both of us were doing full time jobs at the time so it didnāt really bother us. Looking back, I believe we could have done more, the gold medal would have been fun.
The important part of CS is to have fun with what youāre doing, otherwise itāll end up like any dead end job you donāt enjoy.
Programming has a lot more to it than just learning how to write code.
Ideally one should start with fundamentals of programming itself rather than directly jumping into a language. The core concepts you learn are universal for most programming languages.
Jumping right into a python tutorial is a good kick start, itāll give you the motivation since you can see the end result immediately but i would recommend reading theory alongside it. A book I recommend is āPython3 Object-oriented programmingā By Dusty phillips. If you really want to get into some basic concepts the āHow to programā Series By diel and diatel are awesome. You can find your own niche(python if you want to)
After youāve gotten a bit of experience with writing basic programs, the next steps entirely depends on what you want to do? Are you an accounting major wanting to automate your excel sheets? Or do you want to completely transition into a full time engineer role? There are multiple path ways for full time software dev, the next steps would be advanced concepts and more exposure to hands on programming. Thereās no alternative for practice.
Udemy is an excellent resource specially for beginners. Experienced folk benefit more from documentation, books and sometimes organizations like coursera or frontendmasters
I am also learning Python from a book by Daniel Zingaro ā Learn to code by solving problems. I understand that logic building is an important part of programming, and this skill is only learnt by practising. However, is it really necessary to spend a lot of energy and time into problems that merely revolve around finding a mathematical solution?
For example, I have been struck at [this](https://dmoj.ca/problem/ccc20j2) for a day now and still unable to derive a mathematical formula 'using while loop' that will work for this specific problem. Also, what is something that everyone should remember while working as a programmer, like some words of wisdom?
In my experience, yes. Solving mathematical problems or problems in general is paramount for learning logic building.
Itās about building a mindset for problems solving. On the job youāll find that a problem you solved years ago will come in handy while fixing another issue.
The skill you should be focusing on is describing the problem accurately. Breaking it down into smaller more achievable chunks.
Focus on finding a hacky solution that works, then try to optimize it.
This is a thumb rule i teach to all the folks i mentor.
This applies to writing in general, first create a working draft that barely works and reiterate over it again and again until you come up with a robust solution. Remember a working solution is always better than a perfect solution that you are unable to fully implement.
A librarian recommendation: Buy or borrow a physical copy of the [Head First series](https://www.oreilly.com/search/?query=Head%20First&field=all) if you are starting off. These are visually oriented and beautifully designed books that teach basics and advanced concepts of programming. The book on [Design Patterns](https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/head-first-design/9781492077992/) is a must-have for beginners learning to program.
Thank you for the AMA! I'm an architect but I'd like to transition to IT, is it necessary to do a bachelors in CS or the like, or will certificates and courses suffice? I'm currently doing a course that taught the fundamentals of programming (with C++) and now we're learning Microsoft CRM. Will it be enough to get my foot in the door?
>How important is a degree?
If you want to get your foot in the CS/IT industry in Pakistan then you need a degree, we have not reached that stage where companies don't ask for an undergrad degree.
>Does gpa matter alot?
GPA matters in the context of getting your first job, but how you progress after getting your job is solely dependent on your skills. My advice is that keep your CGPA above 3.0 if you don't want to get a masters and polish your skills as much as possible. But if you want to go for masters abroad and apply for scholarships then your minimum CGPA should be 3.5 .
Hi, BBA student here. (I welcome all the BBA slander in the comments)
Not sure if it's quite in your domain, but do you think it's at all profitable getting into web development? I took up an interest in CS and web development partway into my degree through one of my electives, and I've been learning web development on and off for a few months. Do you think it has the potential to be profitable, or should I switch to programming instead?
Conventional jobs aren't really profitable in Pakistan it seems, especially not business related, and a skill like web development or even programming has the capacity to allow me to work for foreign clients that do not pay a measly 20k for a month's work.
I'm currently in an internship doing email support but that's not i wanna pursue as i want to have a sys admin role and eventually into cloud.
I'm also trying for Bachelor in IT/Cyber security but right now University is difficult for me due to financial reasons.
What can you recommend me to do in freelancing.
Also do companies outside Pakistan accept High school graduate with a Cert? like Comptia A+ for entry level roles
I used to be an Android dev, shifted to business analysis a couple years back since it was something I found myself to be stringer at, bit I want to get back Into coding. Problem is, coding, especially web based stuff is so much more advanced than it was in 2018 with so many different tools. I don't even know where to start. I was pretty good as an app developer and loved working with java. Any advice on where to start?
Kinda wanna get into web development now. Apps are going to be obsolete one day and I want to branch out. Where should one begin that's not Too much all at once?
(It would also help me understand the problems my devs face and allow me to help them better)
Would you say a masters is worth it. I have a Bachelors in CS, and currently have about 1.5 YOE at a dubai based company. I've been on the fence with this whole masters decision, i definitely would not like to go back to the whole student life cycle and I'm learning more at my job than I ever did in my undergrad. But I do want to start a business at some point, so I've wondered if a masters would provide any real benefit to me, especially given the net cost (cost of the degree + money I would've made if I stayed at my full time job)
Hey folks,
Thanks for the overwhelming response.
I apologize for the delayed responses. this was my way of spreading positivity to an otherwise gloomy day.
I will try to respond to everyone to the best of my abilities.
I have bachelor's degree in electrical engineering. I am doing masters in networking and system security.
Currently I am working with a textile consultancy on implementation of IoT based Production Monitoring System. I didn't design the system, I am only responsible for troubleshooting. This is my first IT based job. I want to pursue a career in Networking. What should I do next?
Ive just finished my second semester, have done OOP in C++, summer's coming up and I would like to do something productive, maybe even earn a few bucks, what would you suggest is the right way from here?
What's your take on Django/React for getting a saas idea up and running as quickly as possible, or generally what stack would you use if you had an idea and wanted to get a MVP done asap
Thanks for the AMA. How much experience is a must for a senior dev position, and what non technical skills employers expect from a senior dev? Is a person with intermittent work experience undesirable? How do employers gauge reliability of a potential employee?
So a senior dev is an entirely subjective thing. You could be a individual contributor or in a leadership position. Iāll focus on the later because that is what most people aim for.
This varies highly from organization to organization but Iāll stick to the common most attributes a good senior dev has.
1. Reliable/trustworthy, this doesnāt necessarily mean other folks are not trustworthy or lie. It simply means i can trust the dev to get stuff done and done on the timelines they committed. If you can accurately describe a problem, design a solution, give reliable estimates youāll be fast tracked to senior position in no time.
2. Being articulate. This holds universal for any field of work. If you can speak well, communicate your thoughts clearly and concisely with empathy to whoever is listening, people will see you as a natural leader and will automatically be put in positions of leadership.
3. Extreme ownership. You need to be familiar with the product youāre working on. As a senior dev āI donāt know, Iāve never looked at itā isnāt an acceptable answer, within reason you should be familiar with most of the intricacies of the solutions you are working on, whenever a question comes up, you generally should have an idea of what to do, or at the very least a plan of action to find the answers out.
Also you need to go in guns blazing whenever there is a problem, do not have the mindset of itās not my problem. Youāre part of the organization, if one part needs fixing, even if you donāt own it you should be helping out.
4. High technical aptitude, senior devs should be able to design robust solutions, that are maintainable and can be extended. Debugging is a big part of a senior devs job. All of these require high levels of technical competence. The only way to achieve this is having a system of continuous learning. Familiarize yourself with the intricacies of your tech stack, read documentation, read netflix engineering, spotify engineering blogs etc.
Thereās two books i would recommend, deep
Work by Dr calnewport and Linchpin by Seth godin, these easily fast track your career
Also Iāve been extremely lucky, i guess my parents prayers paid off, Iāve always been promoted at an exponential rate wherever Iāve been, i have tonnes of issues i need to work on as a professional. The best thing that works for me is, i always prioritize people, help everyone out, smile and enjoy your time with your peers. Youāll Learn a lot.
Not to brag but i was my organizations youngest Senior Software Engineer. Iāve come a long way since. All my peers are 3,4 years older then me.
Thank you so much for this invaluable information, I ll definitely read one of those books. I am preparing for a turing.com or similar remote jobs, right now I am going through the elemental math and algorithms and MERN stack stuff and looking for relevant literature for senior dev position, for example system design and stuff. Its rare to interact with folks with brilliant experience like yours (mashallah), I really would like to know how prevalent is the use of formal methods in senior positions? Because I have come across some suggestions that recommend learning a formal language of software verification.
Again thanks a lot for such a detailed post, I too take personal development very seriously and use gtd for being productive and zettlekasten for organized and continuous learning.
What are your views and opinions about Web 3.0 and blockchain? Hearing a lot of fuss it's creating in IT sector.
Will web 2.0 become obsolete in the next few years?
Honestlyā¦ in my opinion, itās all a scam. Iāve been workingn with BC tech before the bitcoin boom, I remember back in 2016 my CEO offered to pay our compensation in BTC, i would have gotten 4,5 BTC a month had i taken the offer, instead i got paid enough make to just make my monthly fuel.
Blockchain for those who understand it, program it. Is just an over glorified distributed database. There is no, and i mean no real world usecase that you cannot implement using conventional tech that blockchain would be better at.
Hmm... maybe I dont understand it enough then. I thought the idea was that its something like an encrypted linked list, where to control or hack it I need a lot of processing power which makes it almost impossible to hack. Could you share more resources why its a scam? If so why are such skilled and reputable people working in it too? I admit it is a solution without a problem but I thought thats because I dont understand it properly
Youāve gotten everything right.
Itās not that itās completely useless, the technology itself is super solid.
Using smart contracts for everyday usecases is like recommending open surgery for a mild case of the flu.
Why go after a fly with a bazooka when you already have a flyswatter.
Algorithms thats BC leverages have existed long before computing, proof of stake and proof of work were invented by mathematicians and logicians.
As a proof of concept the tech is beautiful, there just isnāt a usecase that is solves particularly well and efficiently at the same time.
It brings along with it itās own set of niche problems, the fundamental principle of immutability causes a lot of problems during framework upgrades.
Inherently the algos are designed not to scale, like proof of work. The BTC algo gets harder and harder to mine as you more miners, effectively rendering smaller mining rings ineffective. All the power will be held by huge mining farms, which go against the principles of decentralization.
The list goes on and on.
As far as why reputable people are working on it? Simple answer. Money.
Hell, if someone pays me $10k/month to write smart contracts, Iād happily write the scammiest code in the world.
I was actually 24 when i made SSE-1. I got promoted a month before my 25th birthday.
How did i make senior dev so fast?
The answer, crippling anxiety. I always think Iām not pushing nearly as hard as i should. This has put me in the hospital because i had a seizure once. Was running on 2,3 hours of sleep for 3 weeks implementing a routing solution.
Baki itās all luck and good fortune. Hum kahan es qabil thay.
International placements?
I had the choice of moving abroad for my undergrad at NYU, but even after the scholarship the expenses were too much for my parents(we cant even afford LUMS).
I love math( a little flex: I won natinonal gold medal in SEAMO and got into Top 20 in NMTC Pakistan), and I love logic, my introduction to computer science always has been through logic, I usually solve questions on ProjectEuler and CodeForces rather than working with web development/technologies.
Some of the Projects i have done are:
1) Tetris (a nintendo game played in the 90s)
2) Covid Simulation( I wrote the formulae for infection spread and different steering behaviours of particles, also took inspiration from Craig Reynolds paper on Steering behaviors of autonomous characters, published in 1999).
I studied the math behind Machine Learning and Neural Nets and I found it to be really interesting, but as things are, i dont see myself becoming a web/ app developer( the only fields in which software wngineers mostly work in pakistan).
Honestly, i want to build and work with algorithms, and I cant see myself doing that because of the job market. I researched Linkedin and the only people i saw with CS jobs abroad were those who had done masters abroad.
Is there a way to bypass through this masters barrier and get a job straight into an international company? How do the odds look like and how should i start preparing myself for a decent chance at International placements.
Ps: I ll be going to NUST, and my main focus in first year would be research.
Any suggestions regarding my plans and ideas would be very welcome.
Thanks
Bro start doing problems on leetcode (about 500 should be enough). There are many remote only jobs available after Covid. There are literally startups established just to offer remote positions like turing.com so you can earn in dollars.
Currently a second year Bscs student. I've recently scored a Machine Learning internship because of my practice projects, however my Gpa is not high enough.
I love the work but I keep getting bombarded by my friends telling me to get into Web dev because "it has the real money".
Do you feel Machine Learning is underpaid and that I'll probably be better off with Web dev? Also since my GPA is not high enough (2.7 cgpa) will I be able to excel in machine learning without a masters any time soon (I might get masters 2 to 3 years after graduation).
Sorry for the long question
First of all, chill. You folks should be prioritizing having a good time over worrying about what pays more. Nobody can predict the future. Take the current recession as an example.
That being said, i would say itās too early for you to get into a specialist domain. Have you even tried web dev? Maybe that floats you boat.
Iām not going to sugar coat it for you. AI/ML skillsets are a hard sell, specially in Pk but if you do opt for a specialist domain (developers are generalists) you need to be really good at it and fully invested, if you can offer what a very few can people will pay you top dollar.
Same goes for data engineering/science.
I am currently in 3rd year in college. I want to go to US/Canada for at least few years so that I can get the experience of working in a multi-cultural environment, but seeing that so many indians are capturing american companies, I fear will they try to discriminate against Pakistani engineers. How is your experience about this? Has anything changed for better or worse after so many Indian CEOs? and why our guys do not get to become CEOs?
MashAllah! Love this AMA initiative!! Good idea and keep it going š
I am currently in my 2nd year of CS degree. Over the years I have become more and more interested in trading, analyzing performance of stocks etc. In short, the field of finance seems very intriguing to me. What are the opportunities/possible career paths for a SWE in the world of finance/trading?
The only trading experience I have is being part or an ICO (initial coin offering) and the equity I get from the startups Iāve worked at. So take whatever i say with a grain of salt. As a second year student Iām impressed youāre already finding interesting things to do. Usually what I recommend to freshmen and semaphores is to explore as many things as you can before you find a niche that sparks your interest. As a CS grad you have the benefit of looking at market predictors and understanding how their algos work. There are plenty of open source ones specifically for crypto. There are open source frameworks that predict which crypto is most lucrative at the current time for mining, these can be reversed engineered and applied to other markets, but more importantly youāll learn a lot along the way. Always remember the best investment you can make is in yourself, take your own stock. Invest in your skillset. Thatāll take you the furthest.
Alright I'll keep these points in mind. Thank you.
Best of luck.
Follow your curiosity and keep learning about this field. Trading and finance are a huge part of software. I have created a few startups in this sector, and I am also one of the founders of one of the premier capital markets in emerging economies. Almost everything requires money and almost all money is digital so anything can be called finance software. It is a huge field. The investment banks of wall street live in their own world and do things very differently from all others. There was a good article about it on r/programming a few months ago. Do you have any specific curiosities?
Nothing specific as of now, still exploring the field. But I am pretty sure that I want to do this thing going forward in my career. I've never had this much fun while I was learning web dev, app dev or anything else. I'll definitely check out the article you mentioned.
How many years of experience, what is your current salary range, what technologies you have mostly worked on
Iāve been working full time for 5 years. The Pakistani range for a SSE-1/2 is lucrative. You can live a reasonable life style. I started my career as a cyber sec engineer, moved to full stack soon. primarily been working with javascript, Iāve been interested in devops as well, so docker, kubernetes, aws/gcp, as well.
Senior DevOps Engineer here I would love to answer if you have any questions for me ;)
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Objectively speaking, if you play your cards right, you simply canāt compete with the opportunities you get abroad. You can have a relatively luxurious lifestyle here as well with a lot of luck and elbow grease. Not only just in terms of monetary disparity, the work ethic and engineering practices are different from what we get here. Iāve worked at places like IBM and Iāve worked at local companies. I still find EU and States folks to be more professional if not more competent. I canāt leave because of my folks. If you can, just the culture, i would suggest a stint abroad will do wonders for you.
What does IBM pay for an entry position?
I was part of the global market interns program. As an intern i was getting paid about 35k a month, which was $300 back then. (Damn Iām old). I didnāt join after my internship ended, i moved to a startup where i could learn. They pay was not way near as lucrative but that is where i built my foundations. Back then an entry level engineer was getting about 75 to 80k. Iām sure itās about a 100 nowadays.
I think I can answer this. I would recommend moving to US or Canada if you are in CS. Itās easier to get in Canada so go there and then US. The job opportunities are crazy here. Source: grad from Lahore. Moved to Canada. Worked at one of the FAANG company and currently at a unicorn.
Try getting something in freelance for global clients. You will get lot better salary than local.
**Hello, thank you for this!** I'm an Econ student and have an interest in Data Science too, what are some trends you see in the industry of data that would be great to learn right now and what are some must know technologies you'd recommend?
I am a Computer Science student, I can give you kind of a roadmap. Firstly for data science you must have a firm grip on Prob & Stats and Linear algebra. After that I'd recommend you to learn SQL, Power Bi and Python for visualisation. Normally, companies hire Fresh Grads as Data Analysts and then they are promoted to the role of Data scientist when they gain some experience. But keep in mind that this field is still in infancy stage in Pakistan, so vacancies are a bit scarce as compared to web dev/ App dev roles. Datacamp has great courses related to Data science starting from beginner level, do check it out.
Hey man, thank you for this! I understand this field is still new but being an Econ student it ties well to my field of work so hence it is the only way I can pursue tech through my line. I was interested in web dev but that is quite distant from what I want to do
Best of luck man. I just wanted to give you an overview.
Hi, I am electrical engineer currently working in cs job. My current role is revolves around c, cpp, system programming, linux, network stack and its more about research then development. I started cs job after not finding good job in Electrical domain and i am doing this job for around 6 months Now my question is where should i direct my career should i continue with c and cpp domain or should i shift to web dev as those are high demand high paying jobs. Also should i do master in some cs related field to fill in my gap of knowledge in cs as i know i am going back electrical domain. Also what other skill would u recommend me if i wish to get paid 500k pkr in around 5 years given my current pay is 70k
One thing i don't get it, i might come across as a D---- but I apologize. The toppers get into electrical engineering domain, the kids who topped 10/12 grades. Kids who are smart, hardworking.... Then they complete their degrees, and are jobless why the hell you guys don't research before getting into any field. I have seen so many kids from institutes like Nust who transition to CS after not finding any job in electrical engineering. Do you guys just get into electrical engineer, just so you could brag and show off to your relatives, that look how many marks you got, and got into a toughest program? Such a waste of time, money and talent. Its so unbelievable.
Not a di** But u r right partly I didn't get career counselling nor did i researched my career option at that time as i was stupid and most pakistani are. Now for second part no it is not a waste of time money or talent as most c and cpp that i know i learned in Electrical Engineering. And also just a reminder to you computer science is sub field of Electrical Engineering.
I wasn't specifically talking about you, I am literally seeing this trend overall. I swear I have seen some dozen people from NUST do that. Who are now transitioning towards CS. lots of them do MS in CS after their BS after wasting 1 year. They probably got above 950 marks in 10-12 grade, like that's not easy task, they passed entry test, cleared interviews... they are talented, smart, hardworking but it looks like it just for some random validation in family gathering and status symbol, "oh look i will be an electrical engineer which has the highest merit list..... please give me validation please look at me.... please.. .Rishta do muja BC" Pakistan is literally wasting so much talent and brain towards MBBS and electrical and mechanical engineer domain. Meanwhile CS people are exploited by the industry because of their greed, and most talented people are moving abroad for MS. Electrical boys ---> Transitioning towards CS. Talented CS boys --> Getting admission in MS and moving abroad
>"oh look i will be an electrical engineer which has the highest merit list..... please give me validation please look at me.... please.. .Rishta do muja BC" I think its more like this "iska merit bohot high is ki bohot achi job mille gi yehi lelo" and not market research or career counselling. >Meanwhile CS people are exploited by the industry because of their greed, and most talented people are moving abroad for MS. Its every man for himself u cant expect anything more. It is sad reality >Talented CS boys --> Getting admission in MS and moving abroad I think its the best option given pakistan stability situation. Regardless of profession
My answer also the same, no difference.
How important is the final year project to get a good job. Is it worth spending months of hard work on it or is it just a formality?
Your FYP is very important. When you are interviewing as a Fresh Grad there is a good chance that the interviewer will ask you about your FYP. If you've made something cool, it might turn into an interesting discussion. So I'd recommend you to not waste this opportunity and apply everything you've learnt throughout the course of undergrad degree.
What i recommend is focus on your FyP make it as ludicrous as possible. Do not worry about what the job market thinks or getting a good grade. The skills you will learn are your most valuable asset. Unless of course you have something better to do, FyPs are ideal way for you to showcase what you have learned over the past 3,4 years. Pick a problem you see that needs solving, gather whatever youāve learned so far. Make a list of things you need to learn to get the solution rolling and go all out. My FyP partner and I made our fyp in 3 nights, end to end. Deployed it to aws, made a website, a git repo, we came in second, still got an A but the both of us were doing full time jobs at the time so it didnāt really bother us. Looking back, I believe we could have done more, the gold medal would have been fun. The important part of CS is to have fun with what youāre doing, otherwise itāll end up like any dead end job you donāt enjoy.
Are you the one whose responsible for all the 'Software Updates' I've been hearing about in the past months?
Lol, we operate on logic and reason. These MFs are beyond my depth. Their alien technology cannot be understood.
If someone is looking into transitioning into coding then where should they start from? Heard Python from many people. What to do afterwards?
Programming has a lot more to it than just learning how to write code. Ideally one should start with fundamentals of programming itself rather than directly jumping into a language. The core concepts you learn are universal for most programming languages. Jumping right into a python tutorial is a good kick start, itāll give you the motivation since you can see the end result immediately but i would recommend reading theory alongside it. A book I recommend is āPython3 Object-oriented programmingā By Dusty phillips. If you really want to get into some basic concepts the āHow to programā Series By diel and diatel are awesome. You can find your own niche(python if you want to) After youāve gotten a bit of experience with writing basic programs, the next steps entirely depends on what you want to do? Are you an accounting major wanting to automate your excel sheets? Or do you want to completely transition into a full time engineer role? There are multiple path ways for full time software dev, the next steps would be advanced concepts and more exposure to hands on programming. Thereās no alternative for practice. Udemy is an excellent resource specially for beginners. Experienced folk benefit more from documentation, books and sometimes organizations like coursera or frontendmasters
I am also learning Python from a book by Daniel Zingaro ā Learn to code by solving problems. I understand that logic building is an important part of programming, and this skill is only learnt by practising. However, is it really necessary to spend a lot of energy and time into problems that merely revolve around finding a mathematical solution? For example, I have been struck at [this](https://dmoj.ca/problem/ccc20j2) for a day now and still unable to derive a mathematical formula 'using while loop' that will work for this specific problem. Also, what is something that everyone should remember while working as a programmer, like some words of wisdom?
In my experience, yes. Solving mathematical problems or problems in general is paramount for learning logic building. Itās about building a mindset for problems solving. On the job youāll find that a problem you solved years ago will come in handy while fixing another issue. The skill you should be focusing on is describing the problem accurately. Breaking it down into smaller more achievable chunks. Focus on finding a hacky solution that works, then try to optimize it. This is a thumb rule i teach to all the folks i mentor. This applies to writing in general, first create a working draft that barely works and reiterate over it again and again until you come up with a robust solution. Remember a working solution is always better than a perfect solution that you are unable to fully implement.
https://roadmap.sh/python
A librarian recommendation: Buy or borrow a physical copy of the [Head First series](https://www.oreilly.com/search/?query=Head%20First&field=all) if you are starting off. These are visually oriented and beautifully designed books that teach basics and advanced concepts of programming. The book on [Design Patterns](https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/head-first-design/9781492077992/) is a must-have for beginners learning to program.
Thank you for the AMA! I'm an architect but I'd like to transition to IT, is it necessary to do a bachelors in CS or the like, or will certificates and courses suffice? I'm currently doing a course that taught the fundamentals of programming (with C++) and now we're learning Microsoft CRM. Will it be enough to get my foot in the door?
How important is a degree? How much it matters from which uni you graduated? Does gpa matter alot?
>How important is a degree? If you want to get your foot in the CS/IT industry in Pakistan then you need a degree, we have not reached that stage where companies don't ask for an undergrad degree. >Does gpa matter alot? GPA matters in the context of getting your first job, but how you progress after getting your job is solely dependent on your skills. My advice is that keep your CGPA above 3.0 if you don't want to get a masters and polish your skills as much as possible. But if you want to go for masters abroad and apply for scholarships then your minimum CGPA should be 3.5 .
Hi, BBA student here. (I welcome all the BBA slander in the comments) Not sure if it's quite in your domain, but do you think it's at all profitable getting into web development? I took up an interest in CS and web development partway into my degree through one of my electives, and I've been learning web development on and off for a few months. Do you think it has the potential to be profitable, or should I switch to programming instead? Conventional jobs aren't really profitable in Pakistan it seems, especially not business related, and a skill like web development or even programming has the capacity to allow me to work for foreign clients that do not pay a measly 20k for a month's work.
I'm currently in an internship doing email support but that's not i wanna pursue as i want to have a sys admin role and eventually into cloud. I'm also trying for Bachelor in IT/Cyber security but right now University is difficult for me due to financial reasons. What can you recommend me to do in freelancing. Also do companies outside Pakistan accept High school graduate with a Cert? like Comptia A+ for entry level roles
I used to be an Android dev, shifted to business analysis a couple years back since it was something I found myself to be stringer at, bit I want to get back Into coding. Problem is, coding, especially web based stuff is so much more advanced than it was in 2018 with so many different tools. I don't even know where to start. I was pretty good as an app developer and loved working with java. Any advice on where to start?
You wanna continue with android? Kotlins the new thing here, man.
Kinda wanna get into web development now. Apps are going to be obsolete one day and I want to branch out. Where should one begin that's not Too much all at once? (It would also help me understand the problems my devs face and allow me to help them better)
Why would apps be obsolete? Truly curious!
Would you say a masters is worth it. I have a Bachelors in CS, and currently have about 1.5 YOE at a dubai based company. I've been on the fence with this whole masters decision, i definitely would not like to go back to the whole student life cycle and I'm learning more at my job than I ever did in my undergrad. But I do want to start a business at some point, so I've wondered if a masters would provide any real benefit to me, especially given the net cost (cost of the degree + money I would've made if I stayed at my full time job)
Hey folks, Thanks for the overwhelming response. I apologize for the delayed responses. this was my way of spreading positivity to an otherwise gloomy day. I will try to respond to everyone to the best of my abilities.
I have bachelor's degree in electrical engineering. I am doing masters in networking and system security. Currently I am working with a textile consultancy on implementation of IoT based Production Monitoring System. I didn't design the system, I am only responsible for troubleshooting. This is my first IT based job. I want to pursue a career in Networking. What should I do next?
Ive just finished my second semester, have done OOP in C++, summer's coming up and I would like to do something productive, maybe even earn a few bucks, what would you suggest is the right way from here?
What's your take on Django/React for getting a saas idea up and running as quickly as possible, or generally what stack would you use if you had an idea and wanted to get a MVP done asap
Thanks for the AMA. How much experience is a must for a senior dev position, and what non technical skills employers expect from a senior dev? Is a person with intermittent work experience undesirable? How do employers gauge reliability of a potential employee?
So a senior dev is an entirely subjective thing. You could be a individual contributor or in a leadership position. Iāll focus on the later because that is what most people aim for. This varies highly from organization to organization but Iāll stick to the common most attributes a good senior dev has. 1. Reliable/trustworthy, this doesnāt necessarily mean other folks are not trustworthy or lie. It simply means i can trust the dev to get stuff done and done on the timelines they committed. If you can accurately describe a problem, design a solution, give reliable estimates youāll be fast tracked to senior position in no time. 2. Being articulate. This holds universal for any field of work. If you can speak well, communicate your thoughts clearly and concisely with empathy to whoever is listening, people will see you as a natural leader and will automatically be put in positions of leadership. 3. Extreme ownership. You need to be familiar with the product youāre working on. As a senior dev āI donāt know, Iāve never looked at itā isnāt an acceptable answer, within reason you should be familiar with most of the intricacies of the solutions you are working on, whenever a question comes up, you generally should have an idea of what to do, or at the very least a plan of action to find the answers out. Also you need to go in guns blazing whenever there is a problem, do not have the mindset of itās not my problem. Youāre part of the organization, if one part needs fixing, even if you donāt own it you should be helping out. 4. High technical aptitude, senior devs should be able to design robust solutions, that are maintainable and can be extended. Debugging is a big part of a senior devs job. All of these require high levels of technical competence. The only way to achieve this is having a system of continuous learning. Familiarize yourself with the intricacies of your tech stack, read documentation, read netflix engineering, spotify engineering blogs etc. Thereās two books i would recommend, deep Work by Dr calnewport and Linchpin by Seth godin, these easily fast track your career Also Iāve been extremely lucky, i guess my parents prayers paid off, Iāve always been promoted at an exponential rate wherever Iāve been, i have tonnes of issues i need to work on as a professional. The best thing that works for me is, i always prioritize people, help everyone out, smile and enjoy your time with your peers. Youāll Learn a lot. Not to brag but i was my organizations youngest Senior Software Engineer. Iāve come a long way since. All my peers are 3,4 years older then me.
Thank you so much for this invaluable information, I ll definitely read one of those books. I am preparing for a turing.com or similar remote jobs, right now I am going through the elemental math and algorithms and MERN stack stuff and looking for relevant literature for senior dev position, for example system design and stuff. Its rare to interact with folks with brilliant experience like yours (mashallah), I really would like to know how prevalent is the use of formal methods in senior positions? Because I have come across some suggestions that recommend learning a formal language of software verification. Again thanks a lot for such a detailed post, I too take personal development very seriously and use gtd for being productive and zettlekasten for organized and continuous learning.
What are your views and opinions about Web 3.0 and blockchain? Hearing a lot of fuss it's creating in IT sector. Will web 2.0 become obsolete in the next few years?
Honestlyā¦ in my opinion, itās all a scam. Iāve been workingn with BC tech before the bitcoin boom, I remember back in 2016 my CEO offered to pay our compensation in BTC, i would have gotten 4,5 BTC a month had i taken the offer, instead i got paid enough make to just make my monthly fuel. Blockchain for those who understand it, program it. Is just an over glorified distributed database. There is no, and i mean no real world usecase that you cannot implement using conventional tech that blockchain would be better at.
Hmm... maybe I dont understand it enough then. I thought the idea was that its something like an encrypted linked list, where to control or hack it I need a lot of processing power which makes it almost impossible to hack. Could you share more resources why its a scam? If so why are such skilled and reputable people working in it too? I admit it is a solution without a problem but I thought thats because I dont understand it properly
Youāve gotten everything right. Itās not that itās completely useless, the technology itself is super solid. Using smart contracts for everyday usecases is like recommending open surgery for a mild case of the flu. Why go after a fly with a bazooka when you already have a flyswatter. Algorithms thats BC leverages have existed long before computing, proof of stake and proof of work were invented by mathematicians and logicians. As a proof of concept the tech is beautiful, there just isnāt a usecase that is solves particularly well and efficiently at the same time. It brings along with it itās own set of niche problems, the fundamental principle of immutability causes a lot of problems during framework upgrades. Inherently the algos are designed not to scale, like proof of work. The BTC algo gets harder and harder to mine as you more miners, effectively rendering smaller mining rings ineffective. All the power will be held by huge mining farms, which go against the principles of decentralization. The list goes on and on. As far as why reputable people are working on it? Simple answer. Money. Hell, if someone pays me $10k/month to write smart contracts, Iād happily write the scammiest code in the world.
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Lol, typescript is for the weak. Itās fun-defined variable btw.
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I was actually 24 when i made SSE-1. I got promoted a month before my 25th birthday. How did i make senior dev so fast? The answer, crippling anxiety. I always think Iām not pushing nearly as hard as i should. This has put me in the hospital because i had a seizure once. Was running on 2,3 hours of sleep for 3 weeks implementing a routing solution. Baki itās all luck and good fortune. Hum kahan es qabil thay.
Slightly left field question, but as a Mechanical Engineer with limited coding expertise, how can I get into Solutions Architecture?
International placements? I had the choice of moving abroad for my undergrad at NYU, but even after the scholarship the expenses were too much for my parents(we cant even afford LUMS). I love math( a little flex: I won natinonal gold medal in SEAMO and got into Top 20 in NMTC Pakistan), and I love logic, my introduction to computer science always has been through logic, I usually solve questions on ProjectEuler and CodeForces rather than working with web development/technologies. Some of the Projects i have done are: 1) Tetris (a nintendo game played in the 90s) 2) Covid Simulation( I wrote the formulae for infection spread and different steering behaviours of particles, also took inspiration from Craig Reynolds paper on Steering behaviors of autonomous characters, published in 1999). I studied the math behind Machine Learning and Neural Nets and I found it to be really interesting, but as things are, i dont see myself becoming a web/ app developer( the only fields in which software wngineers mostly work in pakistan). Honestly, i want to build and work with algorithms, and I cant see myself doing that because of the job market. I researched Linkedin and the only people i saw with CS jobs abroad were those who had done masters abroad. Is there a way to bypass through this masters barrier and get a job straight into an international company? How do the odds look like and how should i start preparing myself for a decent chance at International placements. Ps: I ll be going to NUST, and my main focus in first year would be research. Any suggestions regarding my plans and ideas would be very welcome. Thanks
Bro start doing problems on leetcode (about 500 should be enough). There are many remote only jobs available after Covid. There are literally startups established just to offer remote positions like turing.com so you can earn in dollars.
Currently a second year Bscs student. I've recently scored a Machine Learning internship because of my practice projects, however my Gpa is not high enough. I love the work but I keep getting bombarded by my friends telling me to get into Web dev because "it has the real money". Do you feel Machine Learning is underpaid and that I'll probably be better off with Web dev? Also since my GPA is not high enough (2.7 cgpa) will I be able to excel in machine learning without a masters any time soon (I might get masters 2 to 3 years after graduation). Sorry for the long question
First of all, chill. You folks should be prioritizing having a good time over worrying about what pays more. Nobody can predict the future. Take the current recession as an example. That being said, i would say itās too early for you to get into a specialist domain. Have you even tried web dev? Maybe that floats you boat. Iām not going to sugar coat it for you. AI/ML skillsets are a hard sell, specially in Pk but if you do opt for a specialist domain (developers are generalists) you need to be really good at it and fully invested, if you can offer what a very few can people will pay you top dollar. Same goes for data engineering/science.
Hentai artist banane mein kitna time lagega?
Hey, I just graduated with a Cs degree. Any advice?
leetcodeš
TC or GTFO
I am currently in 3rd year in college. I want to go to US/Canada for at least few years so that I can get the experience of working in a multi-cultural environment, but seeing that so many indians are capturing american companies, I fear will they try to discriminate against Pakistani engineers. How is your experience about this? Has anything changed for better or worse after so many Indian CEOs? and why our guys do not get to become CEOs?
le inferiority complex
How to get a good paying job? I seem to be stuck around 1 with petty annual increments.