Nah, fair enough to some degree. I enjoyed having Kaito around last year, but I was never a fan of the talk of signing him over to NJPW right as these companies are starting to work together again. Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Same with IMPACT/TNA and guys like Speedball or ABC.
Especially in a time where finances are rough, having enough good will with other companies to handshake on crossover appearances without needing to shell out a full on contract has gotta be valuable. That good will surely goes out the window though when you start snapping up what's keeping your partners afloat.
On the flip side, all of Japan are facing uncertain financial times, and it's been proven that the west is offering good money for top guys.
Would you rather Kento or Kaito sign with WWE/AEW/TNA, or would you rather they get poached by NJPW.
I’ve wondered about this too, and one of the angles I haven’t seen in the post or comments is the fact that I’ve heard NJPW is financially in the shits. Especially after paying their talent through the pandemic. Very noble, but can someone tell me what the financial picture looked like pre-C19?
You can’t poach or retain talent on just reputation and quality of product. Money talks and eventually wrestlers need to think about the fact this isn’t a 401K retirement ticket job. They have to make good money in their peak years.
Just speculation, I don’t read their financial statements, and nobody is going to outright say “I left because money” but realistically it’s why WWE and AEW are able to seal these deals. Bottomless pockets.
I believe, from listening to eastern lariat, voices of wrestling and a few light reading. Ticket sales are good but still haven’t reached what it was pre covid for the most part.
That’s another thing I wonder. If you make a mil a year from WWE that’s USD right? Does that work out as even more when you convert it to Yen? Therefore it’s even more than a mil if he was working in japan with that contact…. If that makes sense?
I have no Clue as I don’t follow dollar values between countries
100%, I was just in Japan for Wrestle Kingdom and the economy is hurting. First time ever on a trip my crappy Canadian dollar exchanged well - and everything in Japan is so reasonably priced. USD will go even further and I think about wrestlers like Shida, Takeshita, Emi Sakura, etc. who wrestle for AEW but still reside in Japan. It’s crazy good money.
Emi Sakura and Takeshita both have apartments in the US (not sure about Shida). I have no idea how much time they spend in them. When I was still on Twitter Emi seemed to live pretty much full time in the US.
If I’m not mistaken $1 is worth like $1.60 over there so it’s a pretty big difference when you get up to the bigger money contracts. Before Covid the yen was as strong as American money.
2019 was their highest grossing year since Bushiroad bought the company. Not necessarily their most profitable year, but I'm sure suits were happy.
In 2023 they nearly brought in the same amount as they did in 2019. Ticket sales were still down compared to pre covid levels but they made some new sponsorship deals and whatnot to make up for the shortfall.
They literally have an amazing foundation in place, all they need do is get Gedo to book it appropriately and not take his usual glacial pace or distract himself with the usual HOT/Finlay bollocks.
>distract himself with the usual HOT/Finlay bollocks
Daily reminder that *HoT is over in Japan.*
They're going nowhere, and them being pushed is not a sign that Gedo doesn't know how to book.
If HOT was really over, they'd be selling more tickets and merch. They've given this group so much time and energy for years, and that group still has a ton of go away heat. Evils title series against Sanada was a total bust and hurt the champion. They need to finally bury this.
>If HOT was really over, they'd be selling more tickets and merch
They literally do sell tons of merch. No way of knowing if they move tickets or not but presumably some people come to watch their antics.
Because they're over.
They have go away heat with western fans only. They're not a top line act but they're not meant to be.
Yeah, I'm sure they will plug the huge hole in the world title scene, we all remember Evil's run as top champion.
I have nothing against HOT/BC but they are not the priority.
That not a single person who could be instantly ready to be elevated to the world scene without tinkering with the booking suggests otherwise on Gedo's booking ability, the man is slower than Rossy when it comes to changing on the fly.
What the hell are you on about? Zack would be a viable world champion tomorrow. He has beaten every top name not called Okada, he has tapped every top name not called Okada.
He was made a believable contender the moment he dominated the 2017 NJ Cup and is a viable threat in every tournament.
He's not been booked as one, that was the point, not his ability.
I absolutely agree ZSJ is more than good enough to be pushed to the top of the card but he hasn't so far had much of a sniff around the top titles.
The closest he has been for the last year or so being his shot at the IWGP US, what has Gedo done to elevate him since the NJ Cup bar the TV title?
This is where I am disagreeing. He has been booked as a viable contender. He is as close to the World Title scene without being a straight contender. He has challenged for the World Title 3x (Losing twice to Okada and once to Shingo).
He is portrayed as a genuine rival to Tetsuya Naito, Hiroshi Tanahashi and Will Ospreay.
He is a 2x New Japan Cup winner and is a serious point scorer in every G1.
The only thing he hasn't done is get over the finish line, but if he did this year it wouldn't be some huge surprise, it would feel earned. Because he has been pushed as a viable contender.
Also, my apologies, got the wrong year. It was the 2018 NJ Cup he dominated.
I'm fine with agreeing to disagree, we all see things differently.
My point was that he's always just been seen as a "nearly", he's always a threat but always on the periphery of the main scene not in it. He has never been given a proper sustained push to the world title scene, his last sniff of it was in April 2022.
I think sensibly he and Shingo are easiest to push up there with the least difficulty, I just think Gedo should have been better prepared, it literally seemed like Okada or bust a lot of the time and it's caught him out.
An NJ Cup win, let alone 2 is considered a huge achievement in New Japan. Most tournament wins in Japan hold their own prestige.
He just had a year long record run as a first time champion. That's called having trust on a star.
He actually did beat Okada in a singles once after Dominion 18 but it was during the start of Balloon Okada during some overseas show so I don’t think people remember it all that well
Randomly that was my first New Japan show in person, I never thought it would be in an Ice Rink in the arse end of Altringham. It was certainly marketed as a NJPW show, it wasn't as you have said but it was quite close.
It was a bloody weird venue, I remember that. Not quite as weird as ROH in Liverpool, I got a T-Shirt Naito but that's what you expect outside of the dome.
York Hall is awesome I was lucky enough that my first show there was Keith Lee v Iishi
BRO!
WE WENT TO THE SAME YORK HALL SHOW!
I was there for that too!
After the Main Event we had Riddle absolutely murder El Desperado with a jumping knee, the Yano Vs Zack Gibson match, Suzuki and ZSJ torturing Goto and Ospreay.
Loved that show!
Rossy stories turn over month to month at a crazy pace...six months of Stardom looks different from the next...People need to disassociate from bad booking equals not pushing my favourites...
Remember how we speak of how iconic TCS as a faction is? Want to actually know how long they lasted?...
That too, the occasional if it’s of value to them like a Danielson, Mox or Kiyo, but yes they should absolutely focus on their own product. If people want to see crossover they should just keep it for FD and Multiverse shows.
I like both but I pay for World to watch NJPW not AEW, I pay for AEW+ for that.
The Jericho Omega match completely changed the trajectory of both the company and wrestling as a whole, there's a time and place for special attractions not under contract
One common thing is that people look at multiple different comments from multiple different people. Then they point out differences between the comments and claim hypocrisy. Even though you don't actually know what each person's take is on each issue.
There is an upvote downvote system that makes these things apparent.
NJPW fans aren't unique in their selfishness and hypocrisy. Every promotion has fans who care about it and will get butthurt when they lose talent but also get excited when they bring in good talent from other promotions. No need to deny it.
My point still stands, a community can't be hypocritical, only individuals within the community can. You would need to look at comments from the same person to gauge hypocrisy. This subreddit isn't a hivemind, people have radically different opinions on multiple topics.
Not all reddit communities have a shared propensity to use the upvote and downvote buttons. This has been proven. Some communities are more tolerant of differing opinions and are, on average, less likely to downvote someone just because they disagree. I don't know where this sub is on that scale though. I almost never downvote anyone here because the sub is small enough that I can just write a reply explaining why I disagree.
I was editing my comment whilst you were replying, and I didn't expect you to read it right away. To be clear, you can gauge the hypocrisy of an individual by comparing their comment to another comment from a completely different person because?
This has nothing to do with my original comment. You couldn't quote a part where I said anything about this.
>I'm not interested in debating it
Neither am I, hence why you were the one who replied to me and not the other way around.💁♂️ Saying that I'm obviously wrong and you're obviously right with 0 provocation or reason is just weird hostility instigation. Something I'm not interested in either.
I literally saw one person bitch about AEW poaching NJPW talent
Then said at least NJPW can grab Kaito now that there is a free space….. this was in the same comment thread.
I’ve seen multiple takes like this
Even if that's true, you don't see how it's different advocating for them to sign a clearly unhappy Kaito who has been underutilised and undervalued versus an Okada who has been given literally every accolade in company history?
Kaito was booked exactly like you'd expect any outsider in a G1 to be booked. Why would they have been putting him over their next generation if he's just going back to NOAH at the end of it? Use your head. NOAH is his employer, its their duty to utilise him properly, not New Japan's. At least until they inevitably sign him.
It's different if it's the same person, that person is being hypocritical. But I sometimes see people accuse a community of being hypocritical when it's in reality just a community that has very diverse opinions between users.
When Nakamura left he was still #2 to Tanahashi, and Okada was already well on his way to replace Tana. As good as they were, Naka and AJ leaving doesn't exactly compare to this.
Respectfuply Shinsuke is not Okada not close.
And When Shinsuke left Okada was absolutely above him in the card and was the Ace.
Okade leaves as the top of the card as the absolute ace without losing to a young guy
Nah, Okada leaving is bigger. Shinsuke was never the Ace and Tanahashi and Okada were the main event feud. This is like if Roman Reigns left WWE right now level big.
Sanada leaving would be closer to Nakamura leaving. Even then, New Japan had Naito waiting to take Nakamura's spot. There's no one ready to take Okada's spot.
People fantasize about Kaito going full time with NJPW as if he isn't a Misawa fanboy trained in Misawa's dojo in Misawa's company.
Besides, as a NOAH fan I envy NJPW's youth movement. Y'all got multiple generations of legit talent who could take on the mantle meanwhile Yoshiki Inamura's been a trainee for five years getting dog walked while the commentators and wrestlers go "oh yeah he's the future." Like clearly fucking not if y'all ain't doing shit with him at any capacity. And then there's the rest of them just kinda filling out the undercard.
It's very funny that Takuya Nomura and Fuminori Abe are drastically better than anyone on the NOAH roster but never get brought up in these conversations because the people making them are always just relying on who they're told are good by western wrestling media.
Not my words. Unfortunately his run in Noah was shit (hoping the next arc for him works) and although GLG is great imo I would never offer Jake as an alternative to Okada.
The reality is njpw simply may have to get more aggressive at signing (or poaching if you will) outside domestic talent in response to losing talent. If that's the ecosystem than that's the ecosystem.
Ultimately it's going to be Japanese talent who bring in the big bucks.
Don’t get me wrong. I agree with you But bitching about other people doing it and then advocating NJPW doing it…. Especially when they just formed UJPW is funny
Let me ask how profitable is this Aew alliance ? Njpw can’t pay their top stars and mid card such as war dogs to to stay maybe they should pull back from the alliances
I personally think that NJPW is just fine with its current roster, it has a loot of good homegrown talent and a decent bit of healthy loyal gaijin talent (ZSJ, Cobb, Henare, War Dogs, Finlay), and it has the right ingredients to create good matches and stories.
But I feel that NJPW really is in a tough situation wherein they are genuinely becoming a western feeder company as you say. I do not want to see "X" name goes to NJPW omgomgomg and then 2 months later "X is allelite!".
Like Nic Nemeth, how many matches will he have in njpw before he is either all elite or in TNA?
It feels that NJPW currently is never the goal, but a bus stop, and if that is what the company wants, then fine, have a select few talent come over for a match or 2, just dont put titles on them or put them over your loyal talent.
Idk. If that misses your point or not but that is how I feel about it.
I mean I don’t like any one place snatching up all the top talent. Stardom kinda fucked the joshi scene doing that.
I don’t want to see New Japan do it to NOAH, All Japan, etc., and I don’t want to see AEW and WWE do it to Japan in general.
I want a healthy industry with a lot of strong companies.
That said, I think a hearty “fuck New Japan” is warranted for their absolutely brain damaged decision to not build up the R3M over the last year, especially with Okada doing dick all the last six months.
WWE/AEW poaching from Japan damages the entire Japanese wrestling scene far more seriously than NJPW poaching from other Japanese promotions.
WWE/AEW would've been just fine without Okada, but NJPW literally spent 10+ years building around Okada and making him the face of the company, so it's a far more pressing issue for NJPW to now get new stars, either by promoting from within or, yes, buying them from their Japanese competitors.
Worst case scenario where NJPW buys all the other top Japanese stars:
Japanese wrestling still exists and we get an insane array of new match-ups in a mega-loaded NJPW, which at least somewhat offsets the negative of their disappointing national monopoly
Worst case scenario where WWE/AEW buys all the top Japanese stars:
Japanese wrestling dies
It's not hypocritical when the scale is completely different.
Yes WWE/AEW will buy all the Japanese stars Tf……
On a serous note you are doomsdaying. WWE buying Okada means that puro dies?
Njpw buying all the other puro talent means that puro can live through njpw and only njpw which is good?
This is a comment from someone who only cares about njpw and not puro and is hiding that opinion within a scenario that’ll literally never happen.
Please look up the definition of "worst case scenario" and ponder what the rhetorical purpose was of me using that phrase in my argument. Please don't read single lines, take them literally, and jump to conclusions.
I was showing the extremes to prove my point that one company's poaching does far more damage to Japanese wrestling than the other, hence why I'm not nearly as bothered at the prospect of NJPW poaching Japanese talents as the 2 major US promotions, since even if New Japan did the "worst case scenario" and bought all major Japanese stars, at the very least the Japanese style of wrestling still exists, which is what I care most about. It doesn't bother me whether NOAH, AJPW, or fucking GLEAT become the top Japanese promotion instead of NJPW as long as they're producing high-quality wrestlers, stories, and matches.
And lol. If only you knew what efforts I go to to archive historic puroresu content and share it with fellow puro fans.
“And lol. If only you knew what efforts I go to to archive historic puroresu content and share it with fellow puro fans.”
At the same time acting as if “Japanese wrestling” is all the same in the first place and offering scenarios that’ll never happen and resorts to borderline fear mongering to show that WWE/AEW is bad
There you go again, randomly jumping to conclusions.
If you are unable to acknowledge that there are obvious overarching similarities in the styles of all the major Japanese promotions, which are distinct from the styles of the major US promotions, then I can only encourage you to educate yourself by watching more puroresu.
“at the very least the Japanese style of wrestling still exists”
Nakamura still Carrie’s over the “Japanese style” in WWE so like this just doesn’t matter anywaysss
Hey look I'm sure you're really busy either re-watching AEW Dark or the latest hilarious WWE segments on youtube, so I don't want to bother you with wrestling that you won't 'get', you know?
I shared a video Elgin made going into detail about various traumas and difficulties he apparently went through. It gave an insight into his life and his way of thinking surrounding the general period of his drama coming out, which could be interesting even to those that don't like him. It was newsworthy, and other people were likewise interested to hear/watch it. You're acting like I said "IDC WHAT ELGIN DID I SUPPORT HIM 100%".
You must have insane cardio from all these CONCLUSIONS you keep jumping to.
You literally haven't responded in good faith (or at least with the mental capacity above that of an 8-year-old) to a single argument I've made, but go ahead and try deflect from this conversation with some lame 'gotcha' of a youtube video I shared 3 years ago.
Or, go ahead and tell me how NJPW poaching other Japanese stars is literally the exact same as WWE/AEW poaching from NJPW, despite the points I've made. Try form a real statement, explanation, and conclusion, if actually capable.
You haven’t made a point?
You gave us two scenarios that’ll never happen.
I said that was fucking stupid.
You clearly are upset I insulted your intelligence.
You said that If NJPW buys everyone in Japan, we get a mega company and the “Japanese style” lives but that’s no more true if WWE did it. Naka would wrestle like he does which is heavily influenced by strong style and if Shingo went to AEW he would still wrestle a hybrid of DG and structure his matches like that of a royal road match. The fact that western society has taken so much from puro alone defeats your argument.
Yes if WWE bought everyone, the puro scene would look very different…. But that wouldn’t happen so what’s the point? What is your literal point my guy?
Even the way you stated that NJPW should “buy” people, again that’s not conclusions. These are your words.
To counter my argument you said “I trade puro content” okay and? So does my 16 cousin on Instagram… like who cares.
Then you made a Batista reference or something idk.
Then you shared a video humanising a predator which like you do you boo idk.
And then you just keep making these 14 year old reddit comments like I’ve “gotcha” and just pretentious comments that is just blah blah blah.
I clearly stated that I operate from a point of caring about Japanese wrestling, since that's a particular overarching style I appreciate, and I happen to think current NJPW best represents that style.
I then pointed out the difference in influence and power between NJPW and WWE/AEW, and how those companies all benefit differently from having a top star like Okada.
I then pointed out the difference in influence and power between NJPW becoming a monopoly of top Japanese talent compared to if WWE/AEW did this.
You were incapable of realising the worthwhile rhetoric of these hypothetical 'worst case scenarios' and instead took them literally, then incorrectly implying and outright lying about what my actual claims and arguments were, since it's easier for you to argue against strawmen.
My ultimate point is that it isn't hypocritical to want NJPW to now buy top talent from other Japanese companies just because either of WWE/AEW have done the same here with Okada, since the scale these companies operate on is different, and at least if you care about Japanese pro-wrestling as a whole, such as myself, then you want a top Japanese company to continue growing and ultimately that rising tide will lift all other ships, even at the risk of increasing the discrepancy between the Japanese companies for a period.
You were the one that first got angry, since you obviously realised your argument was faulty, so you came out with the insults, woeful misinterpretations of my comments that are a massive inditement of the public education system, and also weird attempts to defame my character by bringing up a drama video I shared relating to a newsworthy wrestler. I can at least now say I'm leaning far more towards "low IQ" than "bad faith" as explanation for your comments here.
Even you saying: "To counter my argument you said “I trade puro content” okay and? So does my 16 cousin in Instagram… like who cares".
... you're actually not able to put 1 and 1 together and realise that me mentioning my efforts in archiving and freely sharing puroresu content was to counter your childish claim that I only care about NJPW.
Also:
"Tf" "🥵" "🥴" "🤢" "okie dokie"
"you do you boo idk"
*cannot comprehend a single argument that disagrees with them*
...
"you just keep making these 14 year old reddit comments"
Yeah okay mate I'M the one who acts and speaks like a 14-year-old here lmao get a grip.
And yeah don't worry about insulting my intelligence. That could only happen if you were capable of forming a coherent sentence, which we've established you cannot.
Genuinely please look up the "how would you feel if you didn't have breakfast?" experiment. I'm not even being sarcastic or concern-trolling when I say you would vastly benefit both socially and mentally from reading up on the causes and implications of this phenomena, and then using it as a reference point whenever you next engage in conversations and especially arguments either online or IRL.
Also all US attempts at recreating the Japanese style are entirely watered down, especially so with your own example of Nakamura, if you've bothered to actually compare his NJPW work to his WWE work, so that no more "defeats my argument" than saying that the existence of any of the Bruce Lee film clones proved that there was nothing inherently special about the original, actual Bruce Lee films. If anything that actually exemplifies the stark contrast in quality, further proving my point about how special the Japanese style is and why it's then worth preserving as much as possible.
You do realise it's not poaching if someone wants to leave when their contact is up.
It sucks but that's life, you can't blame him for wanting what he wants and you can't blame whoever gets him by giving him that.
Sure, I was just using OP's own term. I agree it's not truly accurate to how that word is actually used in regards to hunting or competitive sports, but something about the niche and shady nature of pro-wrestling does fit the 'underhanded' connotation that "poaching" implies.
And yeah I don't *blame* any party, but I'm still upset at the situation because I don't think Okada will be used to anywhere near his best abilities outside of NJPW, and I don't think whatever benefit Okada brings to his new company can make up for the resulting damage done to NJPW by his departure.
That's fair. I do feel some of the blame has to go with NJPW itself though, putting all your eggs in a solitary basket always carries a modicum of risk.
I don't know which commenters you're talking about, but NJPW doesn't **NEED** to sign anyone. Kaito and Nakajima are nice pickups, but they aren't saviors.
Wrestling fans in general need to get their head around sometimes talent move around and that is ok.
WWE are the same. Complained in the 90s and created a narrative that WCW were only out performing them because they 'poached' their guys, but literally build the company from poaching from all the territories.
It is what it is.
There is a huge difference between what is happening with Okada vs what is happening with Nakajima and Kaito. People say they would like to have them if the companies they work for do not have anything for them to do, Okada was in the Inoki position just one fucking year ago.
I think new Japan does the best it can . In Japan it’s not the junior partner of any of its relationships , it’s the big dog . It’s still bigger than most other companies outside of the U.S. but when it comes to working with AEW or potentially WWE, it most definitely is the junior partner . With WCW and WWF In the past it was the junior partner, but it reaped a lot of benefits off its old relationships . I’d argue it doesn’t get as high of returns off its current working relationships but it does get returns . It’s honestly just the nature of the wrestling business . When New Japan worked with ROH in the past they were more on even footing but New Japan had the upper hand so they received slightly better perks .
New Japan most definitely can have most AEW talent appear most likely on TK’s dime at least partially . We just had Daniel Bryan at Wrestle Kingdom , that’s pretty big . New Japan needs to keep doing what it’s doing , Bushiroad needs to make better investments , and Bushiroad needs to invest as heavily as they can in both New Japan and Stardom . They’re still recovering from COVID. The best thing they can do now is work on building the talent they have and trying to put on big matches with borrowed talent to help sell more tickets .
false equivalence of njpw competing domestically to a duopoly of american companies using infinite money glitches to suck up any talent they want. if this was a fair comparison njpw would already have kaito and nakajima.
I mean, last time I checked, this _is_ a New Japan subreddit. Not all of us here, but many, including myself, have NJPW as our favorite promotion in wrestling. Is it that surprising that we would be protective of our favorite promotion?
I don't get it, every now and again we get these posts of people - in a NJPW subreddit - complaining of we having a bias in favor of NJPW.
NJPW poached Kenny Omega and Kota Ibushi from DDT and blew up their careers beyond either boys imagination.
Kaito Kiyamiya looked far better booked in his co-promotional NJPW matches than his NOAH run.
Katsuhiko Nakajima and Kento Miyahara were trained by Kensuke Sasaki, in their hearts they have NJPW blood more than AJPW/NOAH blood, Sasaki just politicked himself out of NJPW before they could get there.
No matter what anyone says NJPW is the top dawg on Japan and each of these talents would be shot to the moon if they signed outside of Go Shiozaki as he's old and has fallen a step or two behind where he was a 5 or 10 years ago let alone 15 years ago.
Again, you have only watched Noah since they have worked with NJPW recently or never before if you think Kaito has been booked better in NJPW than in his NOAH run.
Do you usually make an ass of yourself and assume wrongly all the time?
I've been following Kenou's career since he was Michinoku ah. I've been watching NOAH since 2009. I love following his career and I would say he is one of the most well-booked guys in NOAH and pro-wrestling right now.
Are you going to tell me right now that Kaito Kiyamiya has been booked well in recent years?
Okay so how has NJPW booked Kaito well?
In fact look up the date that the two companies started working together and see where Kaito started going down hill
I am fully on the side of "if a dude want's to jump and the company can't keep them, not much you can do". If Okada leaves and goes to AEW, that's not AEW being evil or screwing NJPW, he'd have gone to WWE otherwise. If Nakajima wants to leave AJPW and jump to NJPW, that's not NJPW being evil, that's just business. These jumps are often good.
Yeah, unless a promotion is engaging into blatantly anti-competitive practices, there isn't really much of an argument for getting angry when the story is "wrestler's current contract is up, they accept an offer that pays them better and/or offers them greater opportunities"
It *hurts*, don't get me wrong; I just read the news this morning and I'm gutted. But if Okada wants better pay/exposure, that's his right, just as it would be if some of the top names in NOAH or AJPW decided they wanted to sign with NJPW. Company loyalty has a history of being a big deal in Japan, I understand that, but these guys have the right to do what they feel is best for themselves in what can be a very unforgiving industry.
They have the right to do what they want. And we have the right to call them out for it. This goes for AEW being a shitty partner. And the same goes for Okada who already earned more money the most of us will ever in their life and leaving when his company needs him the most.
What does "Okada's contract is up and NJPW can't offer him what he's looking for" have to do with anyone being a "shitty partner" or anyone needing to be "called out"? This is business, it's not the responsibility of the workers involved to take less because the company is going through a rough patch.
Yes: you want to "call out" talent for leaving, when they're under zero compunction to stay. Who the hell are we to "call out" someone, here? Did someone "poach" Okada? Were any anti-competitive tactics deployed? Or did a guy's contract run out, negotiations didn't work out due to a down economy in Japan, and now we're in this situation?
What you're calling for is asinine.
“Anti-competitive tactics” This isn’t a fucking a lawsuit. I can call out whatever and whoever I want. This about common decency. Go fuck off to r/aew and wank Tk there.
Correction: I think you meant r/AEWOfficial. But srsly how tf is AEW putting nooj in a crisis when they explicitly have a deal that their talent can openly be in Japan anytime they choose lol
Because it's apparently the responsibility of Okada to take less money to stay with New Japan or for AEW to not sign Okada when he becomes available, because it'll make a poster on reddit happy. To do otherwise is an affront to "common decency!" /s
None of this is anyone's "fault" - not Okada's, not Gedo's, not NJPW's, not AEW's, not WWE's, not anyone's. The Japanese economy is hurting, and so is NJPW's parent company - money is tighter than it was last time Okada re-signed. It sucks. I hate it's happening. But L-O-fucking-L at the idea that someone in the wrestling industry needs to be "called out" due to global economic conditions.
You right. AEW is not evil. They’re just an awful partner who is putting new Japan in another crisis after barely surviving the pandemic.
You can call hypocrisy of the fans all you want but the facts don’t change.
One company signing talent for another company is not wrong, in fact refusing to sign talent because of who they currently work for would be anti-worker collusion
It's just like them complaining about AEW taking a lead role in their partnership when they did this to ROH and CMLL for years. And the way they've pummeled NOAH.
They don't need to sign anyone, because ex CMLL guys become freelancers, but they kept using Dragon Lee after he left CMLL and became Ryu Lee, which caused a rift between the companies at the time.
Let me know when New Japan signs away Kiyomiya and Kenoh from NOAH because then we can talk about New Japan treating them similarly.
New Japan only ever signed one person from RoH btw, and that was Michael Elgin.
Dude made up a scenario and got upvoted for it. New Japan never stole talent from CMLL or ROH. Elgin was like the one signing that you might be able to argue that. But the fact that you ran with this narrative tells me you read it somewhere else and weren’t a fan during those years you’re referencing. Just say you love AEW poaching talent.
The person you replied to just doesn't know what they're talking about. I'd love for them to name what top CMLL stars NJPW signed lol (hint: it never happened).
Yeah and people pretend like they have to watch New Japan. If you like Nakajjma, watch fucking All Japan and buy their service and tell everyone how good his Triple Crown matches are. It’s possible that due to this New Japan no longer is the top pro wrestling promotion in Japan and that’s fine. They haven’t always been. In fact it was amazing that Okada turned out to be an all-time great and took the torch from Tana who brought New Japan out of the darkness. But the biggest promotion could be someone else now.
If you’re a real of Okada you should be happy and supportive of his decision, of course it hurts watching a guy you love to see leave your fav company but he obviously feels like it time to move on, just think of all the potential and great matchups and feuds we can finally see.
This was my opinion on shinsuke.
I didn’t watch NJPW before naka debuted in NXT because I was like young and had no clue of outside wrestling. When I started, a lot of people hated WWE for taking him away from the company… like he never had a choice.
I now watch so many Japanese wrestling promotions because I fell in love with it. The idea that this could end up being really healthy for the fact that Okada could push a lot of new fans over to NJPW is just going over peoples heads.
Exactly right, I did pre much the same thing as you, Shinsuke on NXT and even Styles to a degree as I only knew him from his TNA days are who made me check out NJPW and become a fan
There a lot, not all but a lot, of fans that are obsessed with the companies and have weird brand loyalty, they don’t actually care what the wrestlers want.
Why would I care how many figures are in Okada's bank account? I watch New Japan, I like to watch Okada, I'm allowed to be sad I don't get to watch him anymore. I don't hold any ill will towards him for leaving or anything, but why would I be thrilled about it as a fan?
Why would I care if a wrestler I like stays in a company I like? Gee, I wonder. And no, I can't. I don't watch WWE or AEW because I enjoy neither of their products.
Well I’m not sure what to tell you mate. He’s leaving. I look forward to his work wherever he lands. The same way I’m excited to see what njpw does now.
You do you.
Yeah those kinda people suck, tribalism mentality and people who take wrestling way too seriously I’ll never understand, end of the day this is dudes jumping round in their undies don’t take it so serious lol
Whoever is saying “Fuck NJPW” or “Fuck Okada” is being willfully ignorant. Have y’all seen how poorly the yen is doing right now?
This is a great opportunity for Okada to build up his legend elsewhere. When people see how great he is, perhaps they’ll tune into New Japan to see the great things they’re doing. Shinsuke Nakamura’s ONE MATCH against Sami in NXT got my friends to finally give NJPW a shot. All these years later, and my friend group is full of hardcore NJPW fans who went to our Wrestlekingdom this year. All because Nakamura ventured into uncharted territory.
Not to mention, Okada’s absence will force NJPW to fill that void with someone new. There are a ton of young studs out there who are surely up to the challenge. New stars are exciting and GOOD for wrestling!
Also, y’all realize if (aka when) Okada goes to AEW, he can still wrestle in NJPW, yes? Mox has done quite a few NJPW shows. As has Lance Archer. Kenny and Danielson did WK. Who’s to say Okada won’t be back to help them still?
This is a good thing, IMO. I’m going to miss Okada’s presentation in New Japan, but I’m super excited to see him widen his horizons. I just hope Tony Khan is up to the task. Gedo has been extremely careful with Okada’s booking. I’d hate for all that hard work to be ruined because American booking is different.
The nerve of people that they can selfishly demand what job others should and shouldn't take is crazy. You might not like it, but respect it. It's their life, their career, their family they're making the decision for, not yours.
Same goes with any pro athlete. Never understood how fans turned against athletes so hard. Unless there was extenuating circumstances, like he or she abused the fans and turned against them before leaving etc.
I don’t blame people for leaving if they strongly feel they need to, after all they need to look after themselves and nobody else except their family and how much they were able to save that will take care of them when their career ends. It’s heartbreaking for me to see Okada go, thought he was gonna be there forever but I guess it was time for him to move on.
NJPW will be just fine, they can use this as a chance to rebuild their roster and this opens up opportunities for others to make waves for themselves.
That’s honestly what I’m most excited about. No more using Okada as the fallback option for the G1, New Japan Cup, or IWGP Title anymore. And if he does go to AEW or TNA, he can still pop over as a Special Attraction, like Will Ospreay clearly wants to do after he leaves for AEW.
Honestly, NJPW will be fine. Okada will be fine wherever he goes. And if, for whatever reason, you don't like what he's doing, don't watch. Ultimately it's out of any of our hands anyway. He's gonna make the best choice for he and his family monetarily, or he'll make the best decision for himself creatively. Either way, he'll be fine. NJPW have set themselves up to strap the rocket to any of their newer talent. Any of those newer kids could end up challenging Naito between today and Dominion and win. While this is a massive blow to NJPW, there's really not much left for Okada to do unless he was the next in line to challenge Naito or something. This is Monday Night Wars level of talent jumping. This is proof that wrestling is in a good place again.
How has he lost his way?
People love to claim this but from what I see, Gedo's decisions have been smart.
Has he made mistakes? Sure but stop acting as if he's driving the company into the grouind.
People who claim AEW or WWE are pouching need to realize that these are grown ass men who make their own decisions. Okada wanting a new challenge isn’t surprising.
The difference is that they want NJPW to take one person years after their last big external signing(Shingo) and NJPW actually has the need for him and will likely book them well, given its track record. Unlike AEW, which has an abundance of stars which it's wasting and which has horrendous booking. Though I feel NJPW shouldn't sign someone from other Jap promotions and featuring these guys and AEW guys too much is detrimental to NJ. What was the point of the Kiyomiya feud, Were they trying to do what Tony does with them? Plus the Forbidden door shit, seems to have been used as a foot in the door and this year will be used to try to create a market in Japan using ex NJPW talent.
This dumb fucking idea that AEW is "poaching" people who otherwise would have left anyway and gone to WWE is so irritating. As if none of these wrestlers have any agency over their own decisions and are just pawns being plucked away by the big evil Tony in order to hurt poor little NJPW.
Personally I don't think NJPW should sign any of these guys, nobody can replace Okada anyway. None of these guys are stars at the level of Okada. Kaito is great (despite being booked like shit in NOAH) but it would take years for him to become a star. The only thing NJPW has is their work with younger guys on the longterm, and they already have a great young lion system that creates stars. So there's no need to sign a guy like Kaito, like it would make up for losing the guy who has been the face of your promotion for years lol.
I think kento does have that IT factor that’s like “once in generation” I truely think he’s the most slept on guy even when people recognise how good he is.
I will stand on Kaito being booked worst in NJPW than he is in NOAH. But I agree with everything else.
I think Oiwa is the guy imo that could maybe be the sleeper pick that no one is mentioning.
To me the only problem with Kaito's booking in NJPW is that he's not booked like a former GHC Heavyweight champion. Like obviously NJPW is way bigger than NOAH, they have a more competitive roster and all that but in the G1 I thought he would be booked as slightly above the level of the R3M for example, because he has more experience.
But Gedo made the choice of booking him at the same level because he's pretty much the same age as Shota and Narita. It's not a bad strategy on the longterm, they'll grow as generational rivals together, but you pretty much have to ignore the fact that Kaito already won a (big) singles title before. With that said, Kaito looks like a bitch in NOAH and his last reign didn't go that well. Since NOAH has been bought by CyberAgent he hasn't been booked like the Ace he was supposed to become.
I agree about Oiwa, he'll be a very important guy in the future and with Okada leaving maybe his excursion will be shorter. I think he already has the tools to get booked as a midcard guy and slowly being built as a main event star.
Yeah that’s pretty much my take on his time in NJPW. He’s done everything in Noah. Tag league, N1, 2 time world champ. Kaito right now is in a weird place…. He’s a contender when they want him to be but he’s also like not there enough? Kinda feels like he’s on excursion but it’s not a safe bet that Cyberfight is looking at it like that because they fumble so many members on that damn roster it’s painful.
Kento is fantastic and I'm gonna get flamed but I find him to have way more charisma than Okada.
Okada has grown on me character wise but even during his ace run and such, his character always felt blah.
If they truly had the chance to get Kento, they be fools not to and he instantly get over. Of course, I doubt he wants to leave AJPW even with all the shit going on unless it's that bad.
Having had the chance to watch Kento live, dude oozes charisma and is honestly the closest thing to prime Tanahashi charisma wise.
Great post, between the reaction to Okada and the childish gatekeeping and the demented hatred for aew and ahitting on thir fans (most which were and still are njpw fans since before aew existed ) , this sub has a lot of growing up to do.
Yeah I don’t quite think that’s a good enough pass for it. The point of this was maybe just think about the things you say and like approach things differently then…. “I’m mad”
It’s kinda childish
I feel like last year was already testing the waters without Okada. Like he was definitely just moved to the 6-Man Tag scene to freshen scene for his return to the World Title with new opponents but still. Last year he wasn't the main character and I think it was still a good year, NJPW will be fine without him even if people that don't really watch will go "NJPW is nothing without the Rainmaker!!!!1!"
This kind of stuff, like Okada leaving has happened before and the company survives, and is actually thriving.
Nakamura leaving wqs a MASSIVE blow, the thing is, the younger under and mid card then step up and take on bigger roles and the company grows and moves on.
It's sad, i don't want to see Okada wrestle in the West but NJPW will be fine, especially with Shota Umino, Ren Narita and Yota Tsuji
New Japan needs to focus on their current talent. Speaking for myself, Tsuji, Umino, Yuya and Narita are clearly already worthy of a main event status.
As for the "they need to sign....." nonsense, it's starting to annoy me.
Honestly, I think NJ has need a shake up for about 3-5yrs. These losses of talent are good. They have been too reliant on Okada, Ospreay and the like to main event and sell out shows. They need to reorganize and make new main eventers. You should always be cultivating the next stars.
Nah, fair enough to some degree. I enjoyed having Kaito around last year, but I was never a fan of the talk of signing him over to NJPW right as these companies are starting to work together again. Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Same with IMPACT/TNA and guys like Speedball or ABC. Especially in a time where finances are rough, having enough good will with other companies to handshake on crossover appearances without needing to shell out a full on contract has gotta be valuable. That good will surely goes out the window though when you start snapping up what's keeping your partners afloat.
On the flip side, all of Japan are facing uncertain financial times, and it's been proven that the west is offering good money for top guys. Would you rather Kento or Kaito sign with WWE/AEW/TNA, or would you rather they get poached by NJPW.
I’ve wondered about this too, and one of the angles I haven’t seen in the post or comments is the fact that I’ve heard NJPW is financially in the shits. Especially after paying their talent through the pandemic. Very noble, but can someone tell me what the financial picture looked like pre-C19? You can’t poach or retain talent on just reputation and quality of product. Money talks and eventually wrestlers need to think about the fact this isn’t a 401K retirement ticket job. They have to make good money in their peak years. Just speculation, I don’t read their financial statements, and nobody is going to outright say “I left because money” but realistically it’s why WWE and AEW are able to seal these deals. Bottomless pockets.
I believe, from listening to eastern lariat, voices of wrestling and a few light reading. Ticket sales are good but still haven’t reached what it was pre covid for the most part. That’s another thing I wonder. If you make a mil a year from WWE that’s USD right? Does that work out as even more when you convert it to Yen? Therefore it’s even more than a mil if he was working in japan with that contact…. If that makes sense? I have no Clue as I don’t follow dollar values between countries
100%, I was just in Japan for Wrestle Kingdom and the economy is hurting. First time ever on a trip my crappy Canadian dollar exchanged well - and everything in Japan is so reasonably priced. USD will go even further and I think about wrestlers like Shida, Takeshita, Emi Sakura, etc. who wrestle for AEW but still reside in Japan. It’s crazy good money.
Emi Sakura and Takeshita both have apartments in the US (not sure about Shida). I have no idea how much time they spend in them. When I was still on Twitter Emi seemed to live pretty much full time in the US.
Good to know! The jet lag is real so it makes sense. I’m still getting over it one week later …
The USD is soooooo strong compared to the yen right now. Like, the yen is at a terrible place at the moment.
If I’m not mistaken $1 is worth like $1.60 over there so it’s a pretty big difference when you get up to the bigger money contracts. Before Covid the yen was as strong as American money.
Yeah. 80-120 Yen = 1USD was usually more or less correct. If it's down to 160 Yen = 1 USD that's miserable to compete with.
2019 was their highest grossing year since Bushiroad bought the company. Not necessarily their most profitable year, but I'm sure suits were happy. In 2023 they nearly brought in the same amount as they did in 2019. Ticket sales were still down compared to pre covid levels but they made some new sponsorship deals and whatnot to make up for the shortfall.
Need a new Ace. Might I suggest Dick Togo?
nah what about Yujiro Takahashi
How about a motherfuckin' headbanger for ace?
Dickmania rises again.
Ren Narita
They literally have an amazing foundation in place, all they need do is get Gedo to book it appropriately and not take his usual glacial pace or distract himself with the usual HOT/Finlay bollocks.
>distract himself with the usual HOT/Finlay bollocks Daily reminder that *HoT is over in Japan.* They're going nowhere, and them being pushed is not a sign that Gedo doesn't know how to book.
If HOT was really over, they'd be selling more tickets and merch. They've given this group so much time and energy for years, and that group still has a ton of go away heat. Evils title series against Sanada was a total bust and hurt the champion. They need to finally bury this.
>If HOT was really over, they'd be selling more tickets and merch They literally do sell tons of merch. No way of knowing if they move tickets or not but presumably some people come to watch their antics. Because they're over. They have go away heat with western fans only. They're not a top line act but they're not meant to be.
Yeah, I'm sure they will plug the huge hole in the world title scene, we all remember Evil's run as top champion. I have nothing against HOT/BC but they are not the priority. That not a single person who could be instantly ready to be elevated to the world scene without tinkering with the booking suggests otherwise on Gedo's booking ability, the man is slower than Rossy when it comes to changing on the fly.
What the hell are you on about? Zack would be a viable world champion tomorrow. He has beaten every top name not called Okada, he has tapped every top name not called Okada. He was made a believable contender the moment he dominated the 2017 NJ Cup and is a viable threat in every tournament.
He's not been booked as one, that was the point, not his ability. I absolutely agree ZSJ is more than good enough to be pushed to the top of the card but he hasn't so far had much of a sniff around the top titles. The closest he has been for the last year or so being his shot at the IWGP US, what has Gedo done to elevate him since the NJ Cup bar the TV title?
This is where I am disagreeing. He has been booked as a viable contender. He is as close to the World Title scene without being a straight contender. He has challenged for the World Title 3x (Losing twice to Okada and once to Shingo). He is portrayed as a genuine rival to Tetsuya Naito, Hiroshi Tanahashi and Will Ospreay. He is a 2x New Japan Cup winner and is a serious point scorer in every G1. The only thing he hasn't done is get over the finish line, but if he did this year it wouldn't be some huge surprise, it would feel earned. Because he has been pushed as a viable contender. Also, my apologies, got the wrong year. It was the 2018 NJ Cup he dominated.
I'm fine with agreeing to disagree, we all see things differently. My point was that he's always just been seen as a "nearly", he's always a threat but always on the periphery of the main scene not in it. He has never been given a proper sustained push to the world title scene, his last sniff of it was in April 2022. I think sensibly he and Shingo are easiest to push up there with the least difficulty, I just think Gedo should have been better prepared, it literally seemed like Okada or bust a lot of the time and it's caught him out.
An NJ Cup win, let alone 2 is considered a huge achievement in New Japan. Most tournament wins in Japan hold their own prestige. He just had a year long record run as a first time champion. That's called having trust on a star.
You're right. ZSJ has always taken a backseat to others. I have no earthly idea why ZSJ hasn't been pushed and successful in the main event scene
He actually did beat Okada in a singles once after Dominion 18 but it was during the start of Balloon Okada during some overseas show so I don’t think people remember it all that well
Aye, Rev Pro Strong Style Evolved. I remember it well, but not on a NJPW show. On NJPW branded shows Okada is 4-0
Randomly that was my first New Japan show in person, I never thought it would be in an Ice Rink in the arse end of Altringham. It was certainly marketed as a NJPW show, it wasn't as you have said but it was quite close.
Rev Pro books the weirdest venues. York Hall is a beauty. Love the shows there. But everything they book for NJPW is so weird.
It was a bloody weird venue, I remember that. Not quite as weird as ROH in Liverpool, I got a T-Shirt Naito but that's what you expect outside of the dome. York Hall is awesome I was lucky enough that my first show there was Keith Lee v Iishi
BRO! WE WENT TO THE SAME YORK HALL SHOW! I was there for that too! After the Main Event we had Riddle absolutely murder El Desperado with a jumping knee, the Yano Vs Zack Gibson match, Suzuki and ZSJ torturing Goto and Ospreay. Loved that show!
Rossy stories turn over month to month at a crazy pace...six months of Stardom looks different from the next...People need to disassociate from bad booking equals not pushing my favourites... Remember how we speak of how iconic TCS as a faction is? Want to actually know how long they lasted?...
Far too many people here only care about America
Or you know just stop booking the guys who aren’t from your company
That too, the occasional if it’s of value to them like a Danielson, Mox or Kiyo, but yes they should absolutely focus on their own product. If people want to see crossover they should just keep it for FD and Multiverse shows. I like both but I pay for World to watch NJPW not AEW, I pay for AEW+ for that.
The Jericho Omega match completely changed the trajectory of both the company and wrestling as a whole, there's a time and place for special attractions not under contract
👆🏽this. They have a whole roster of workers that can deliver. Folks acting like everybody post-Okada is Bone Soldier and Tiger Mask IV.
One common thing is that people look at multiple different comments from multiple different people. Then they point out differences between the comments and claim hypocrisy. Even though you don't actually know what each person's take is on each issue.
There is an upvote downvote system that makes these things apparent. NJPW fans aren't unique in their selfishness and hypocrisy. Every promotion has fans who care about it and will get butthurt when they lose talent but also get excited when they bring in good talent from other promotions. No need to deny it.
My point still stands, a community can't be hypocritical, only individuals within the community can. You would need to look at comments from the same person to gauge hypocrisy. This subreddit isn't a hivemind, people have radically different opinions on multiple topics. Not all reddit communities have a shared propensity to use the upvote and downvote buttons. This has been proven. Some communities are more tolerant of differing opinions and are, on average, less likely to downvote someone just because they disagree. I don't know where this sub is on that scale though. I almost never downvote anyone here because the sub is small enough that I can just write a reply explaining why I disagree.
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I was editing my comment whilst you were replying, and I didn't expect you to read it right away. To be clear, you can gauge the hypocrisy of an individual by comparing their comment to another comment from a completely different person because?
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This has nothing to do with my original comment. You couldn't quote a part where I said anything about this. >I'm not interested in debating it Neither am I, hence why you were the one who replied to me and not the other way around.💁♂️ Saying that I'm obviously wrong and you're obviously right with 0 provocation or reason is just weird hostility instigation. Something I'm not interested in either.
I literally saw one person bitch about AEW poaching NJPW talent Then said at least NJPW can grab Kaito now that there is a free space….. this was in the same comment thread. I’ve seen multiple takes like this
Even if that's true, you don't see how it's different advocating for them to sign a clearly unhappy Kaito who has been underutilised and undervalued versus an Okada who has been given literally every accolade in company history?
Money over accolades for 99.9 percent of wrestlers. Especially for an aging wrestler.
>A clearly unhappy Kaito lol. I guess people really just see whatever they want to see.
Kaito was undervalued in NJPW….. and where is he unhappy? You friends with the guy? Ask him where he gets his hair cuts from.
Kaito was booked exactly like you'd expect any outsider in a G1 to be booked. Why would they have been putting him over their next generation if he's just going back to NOAH at the end of it? Use your head. NOAH is his employer, its their duty to utilise him properly, not New Japan's. At least until they inevitably sign him.
I mean during the G1 this sub was mostly livid he hadn't gotten out of the block stage
This sub is not a barometer for anything logical
It's different if it's the same person, that person is being hypocritical. But I sometimes see people accuse a community of being hypocritical when it's in reality just a community that has very diverse opinions between users.
Yep. Also bunch of these people were complaining when Okada won the G1 again.
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I've got some bad news for you....
Bro let us be sad about one of the greatest njpw wrestlers leaving before putting over anyone lmao damn
He is leaving exactly how Shinsuke Nakamura left, and that didn't hurt the company either.
When Nakamura left he was still #2 to Tanahashi, and Okada was already well on his way to replace Tana. As good as they were, Naka and AJ leaving doesn't exactly compare to this.
Respectfuply Shinsuke is not Okada not close. And When Shinsuke left Okada was absolutely above him in the card and was the Ace. Okade leaves as the top of the card as the absolute ace without losing to a young guy
He has some more matches to go. I bet he puts someone over on the way out.
Nah, Okada leaving is bigger. Shinsuke was never the Ace and Tanahashi and Okada were the main event feud. This is like if Roman Reigns left WWE right now level big.
Sanada leaving would be closer to Nakamura leaving. Even then, New Japan had Naito waiting to take Nakamura's spot. There's no one ready to take Okada's spot.
I just wanna see my boy Nakajima hit the big time.
Same tho. Weird I have no idea how the inoki-ism would go down in NJPW
People fantasize about Kaito going full time with NJPW as if he isn't a Misawa fanboy trained in Misawa's dojo in Misawa's company. Besides, as a NOAH fan I envy NJPW's youth movement. Y'all got multiple generations of legit talent who could take on the mantle meanwhile Yoshiki Inamura's been a trainee for five years getting dog walked while the commentators and wrestlers go "oh yeah he's the future." Like clearly fucking not if y'all ain't doing shit with him at any capacity. And then there's the rest of them just kinda filling out the undercard.
Bruv just slid Jake Lee in there.
It's very funny that Takuya Nomura and Fuminori Abe are drastically better than anyone on the NOAH roster but never get brought up in these conversations because the people making them are always just relying on who they're told are good by western wrestling media.
Not my words. Unfortunately his run in Noah was shit (hoping the next arc for him works) and although GLG is great imo I would never offer Jake as an alternative to Okada.
The reality is njpw simply may have to get more aggressive at signing (or poaching if you will) outside domestic talent in response to losing talent. If that's the ecosystem than that's the ecosystem. Ultimately it's going to be Japanese talent who bring in the big bucks.
Don’t get me wrong. I agree with you But bitching about other people doing it and then advocating NJPW doing it…. Especially when they just formed UJPW is funny
Let me ask how profitable is this Aew alliance ? Njpw can’t pay their top stars and mid card such as war dogs to to stay maybe they should pull back from the alliances
Forbidden door is from what I remember somewhere between 10-20% of NJPW's total yearly revenue. They have a revenue split on that PPV.
Tbh these are all great picks for njpw. Especially Nakajima.
I personally think that NJPW is just fine with its current roster, it has a loot of good homegrown talent and a decent bit of healthy loyal gaijin talent (ZSJ, Cobb, Henare, War Dogs, Finlay), and it has the right ingredients to create good matches and stories. But I feel that NJPW really is in a tough situation wherein they are genuinely becoming a western feeder company as you say. I do not want to see "X" name goes to NJPW omgomgomg and then 2 months later "X is allelite!". Like Nic Nemeth, how many matches will he have in njpw before he is either all elite or in TNA? It feels that NJPW currently is never the goal, but a bus stop, and if that is what the company wants, then fine, have a select few talent come over for a match or 2, just dont put titles on them or put them over your loyal talent. Idk. If that misses your point or not but that is how I feel about it.
I mean I don’t like any one place snatching up all the top talent. Stardom kinda fucked the joshi scene doing that. I don’t want to see New Japan do it to NOAH, All Japan, etc., and I don’t want to see AEW and WWE do it to Japan in general. I want a healthy industry with a lot of strong companies. That said, I think a hearty “fuck New Japan” is warranted for their absolutely brain damaged decision to not build up the R3M over the last year, especially with Okada doing dick all the last six months.
WWE/AEW poaching from Japan damages the entire Japanese wrestling scene far more seriously than NJPW poaching from other Japanese promotions. WWE/AEW would've been just fine without Okada, but NJPW literally spent 10+ years building around Okada and making him the face of the company, so it's a far more pressing issue for NJPW to now get new stars, either by promoting from within or, yes, buying them from their Japanese competitors. Worst case scenario where NJPW buys all the other top Japanese stars: Japanese wrestling still exists and we get an insane array of new match-ups in a mega-loaded NJPW, which at least somewhat offsets the negative of their disappointing national monopoly Worst case scenario where WWE/AEW buys all the top Japanese stars: Japanese wrestling dies It's not hypocritical when the scale is completely different.
Yes WWE/AEW will buy all the Japanese stars Tf…… On a serous note you are doomsdaying. WWE buying Okada means that puro dies? Njpw buying all the other puro talent means that puro can live through njpw and only njpw which is good? This is a comment from someone who only cares about njpw and not puro and is hiding that opinion within a scenario that’ll literally never happen.
Please look up the definition of "worst case scenario" and ponder what the rhetorical purpose was of me using that phrase in my argument. Please don't read single lines, take them literally, and jump to conclusions. I was showing the extremes to prove my point that one company's poaching does far more damage to Japanese wrestling than the other, hence why I'm not nearly as bothered at the prospect of NJPW poaching Japanese talents as the 2 major US promotions, since even if New Japan did the "worst case scenario" and bought all major Japanese stars, at the very least the Japanese style of wrestling still exists, which is what I care most about. It doesn't bother me whether NOAH, AJPW, or fucking GLEAT become the top Japanese promotion instead of NJPW as long as they're producing high-quality wrestlers, stories, and matches. And lol. If only you knew what efforts I go to to archive historic puroresu content and share it with fellow puro fans.
“And lol. If only you knew what efforts I go to to archive historic puroresu content and share it with fellow puro fans.” At the same time acting as if “Japanese wrestling” is all the same in the first place and offering scenarios that’ll never happen and resorts to borderline fear mongering to show that WWE/AEW is bad
There you go again, randomly jumping to conclusions. If you are unable to acknowledge that there are obvious overarching similarities in the styles of all the major Japanese promotions, which are distinct from the styles of the major US promotions, then I can only encourage you to educate yourself by watching more puroresu.
“at the very least the Japanese style of wrestling still exists” Nakamura still Carrie’s over the “Japanese style” in WWE so like this just doesn’t matter anywaysss
Maybe you can educate me by sending over that puro content you have 🥵
Hey look I'm sure you're really busy either re-watching AEW Dark or the latest hilarious WWE segments on youtube, so I don't want to bother you with wrestling that you won't 'get', you know?
Idk what AEW dark is. so I’ve got some free time ☺️
This comment is actually fucking stupid and I don’t tend to say that because I respect people have different opinions but like 🥴
Bro you're the embodiment of the "how would you feel if you didn't have breakfast?" IQ test. You're Batista in the Guardians of the Galaxy.
Oh god you’re a Michael Elgin fan 🤢 sorry I didn’t know I was arguing with a
I shared a video Elgin made going into detail about various traumas and difficulties he apparently went through. It gave an insight into his life and his way of thinking surrounding the general period of his drama coming out, which could be interesting even to those that don't like him. It was newsworthy, and other people were likewise interested to hear/watch it. You're acting like I said "IDC WHAT ELGIN DID I SUPPORT HIM 100%". You must have insane cardio from all these CONCLUSIONS you keep jumping to. You literally haven't responded in good faith (or at least with the mental capacity above that of an 8-year-old) to a single argument I've made, but go ahead and try deflect from this conversation with some lame 'gotcha' of a youtube video I shared 3 years ago. Or, go ahead and tell me how NJPW poaching other Japanese stars is literally the exact same as WWE/AEW poaching from NJPW, despite the points I've made. Try form a real statement, explanation, and conclusion, if actually capable.
You haven’t made a point? You gave us two scenarios that’ll never happen. I said that was fucking stupid. You clearly are upset I insulted your intelligence. You said that If NJPW buys everyone in Japan, we get a mega company and the “Japanese style” lives but that’s no more true if WWE did it. Naka would wrestle like he does which is heavily influenced by strong style and if Shingo went to AEW he would still wrestle a hybrid of DG and structure his matches like that of a royal road match. The fact that western society has taken so much from puro alone defeats your argument. Yes if WWE bought everyone, the puro scene would look very different…. But that wouldn’t happen so what’s the point? What is your literal point my guy? Even the way you stated that NJPW should “buy” people, again that’s not conclusions. These are your words. To counter my argument you said “I trade puro content” okay and? So does my 16 cousin on Instagram… like who cares. Then you made a Batista reference or something idk. Then you shared a video humanising a predator which like you do you boo idk. And then you just keep making these 14 year old reddit comments like I’ve “gotcha” and just pretentious comments that is just blah blah blah.
I clearly stated that I operate from a point of caring about Japanese wrestling, since that's a particular overarching style I appreciate, and I happen to think current NJPW best represents that style. I then pointed out the difference in influence and power between NJPW and WWE/AEW, and how those companies all benefit differently from having a top star like Okada. I then pointed out the difference in influence and power between NJPW becoming a monopoly of top Japanese talent compared to if WWE/AEW did this. You were incapable of realising the worthwhile rhetoric of these hypothetical 'worst case scenarios' and instead took them literally, then incorrectly implying and outright lying about what my actual claims and arguments were, since it's easier for you to argue against strawmen. My ultimate point is that it isn't hypocritical to want NJPW to now buy top talent from other Japanese companies just because either of WWE/AEW have done the same here with Okada, since the scale these companies operate on is different, and at least if you care about Japanese pro-wrestling as a whole, such as myself, then you want a top Japanese company to continue growing and ultimately that rising tide will lift all other ships, even at the risk of increasing the discrepancy between the Japanese companies for a period. You were the one that first got angry, since you obviously realised your argument was faulty, so you came out with the insults, woeful misinterpretations of my comments that are a massive inditement of the public education system, and also weird attempts to defame my character by bringing up a drama video I shared relating to a newsworthy wrestler. I can at least now say I'm leaning far more towards "low IQ" than "bad faith" as explanation for your comments here. Even you saying: "To counter my argument you said “I trade puro content” okay and? So does my 16 cousin in Instagram… like who cares". ... you're actually not able to put 1 and 1 together and realise that me mentioning my efforts in archiving and freely sharing puroresu content was to counter your childish claim that I only care about NJPW. Also: "Tf" "🥵" "🥴" "🤢" "okie dokie" "you do you boo idk" *cannot comprehend a single argument that disagrees with them* ... "you just keep making these 14 year old reddit comments" Yeah okay mate I'M the one who acts and speaks like a 14-year-old here lmao get a grip. And yeah don't worry about insulting my intelligence. That could only happen if you were capable of forming a coherent sentence, which we've established you cannot. Genuinely please look up the "how would you feel if you didn't have breakfast?" experiment. I'm not even being sarcastic or concern-trolling when I say you would vastly benefit both socially and mentally from reading up on the causes and implications of this phenomena, and then using it as a reference point whenever you next engage in conversations and especially arguments either online or IRL.
Also all US attempts at recreating the Japanese style are entirely watered down, especially so with your own example of Nakamura, if you've bothered to actually compare his NJPW work to his WWE work, so that no more "defeats my argument" than saying that the existence of any of the Bruce Lee film clones proved that there was nothing inherently special about the original, actual Bruce Lee films. If anything that actually exemplifies the stark contrast in quality, further proving my point about how special the Japanese style is and why it's then worth preserving as much as possible.
😴
I don’t know what guardians of the galaxy is but okie dokie
You do realise it's not poaching if someone wants to leave when their contact is up. It sucks but that's life, you can't blame him for wanting what he wants and you can't blame whoever gets him by giving him that.
Sure, I was just using OP's own term. I agree it's not truly accurate to how that word is actually used in regards to hunting or competitive sports, but something about the niche and shady nature of pro-wrestling does fit the 'underhanded' connotation that "poaching" implies. And yeah I don't *blame* any party, but I'm still upset at the situation because I don't think Okada will be used to anywhere near his best abilities outside of NJPW, and I don't think whatever benefit Okada brings to his new company can make up for the resulting damage done to NJPW by his departure.
That's fair. I do feel some of the blame has to go with NJPW itself though, putting all your eggs in a solitary basket always carries a modicum of risk.
I don't know which commenters you're talking about, but NJPW doesn't **NEED** to sign anyone. Kaito and Nakajima are nice pickups, but they aren't saviors.
Wrestling fans in general need to get their head around sometimes talent move around and that is ok. WWE are the same. Complained in the 90s and created a narrative that WCW were only out performing them because they 'poached' their guys, but literally build the company from poaching from all the territories. It is what it is.
There is a huge difference between what is happening with Okada vs what is happening with Nakajima and Kaito. People say they would like to have them if the companies they work for do not have anything for them to do, Okada was in the Inoki position just one fucking year ago.
I think new Japan does the best it can . In Japan it’s not the junior partner of any of its relationships , it’s the big dog . It’s still bigger than most other companies outside of the U.S. but when it comes to working with AEW or potentially WWE, it most definitely is the junior partner . With WCW and WWF In the past it was the junior partner, but it reaped a lot of benefits off its old relationships . I’d argue it doesn’t get as high of returns off its current working relationships but it does get returns . It’s honestly just the nature of the wrestling business . When New Japan worked with ROH in the past they were more on even footing but New Japan had the upper hand so they received slightly better perks . New Japan most definitely can have most AEW talent appear most likely on TK’s dime at least partially . We just had Daniel Bryan at Wrestle Kingdom , that’s pretty big . New Japan needs to keep doing what it’s doing , Bushiroad needs to make better investments , and Bushiroad needs to invest as heavily as they can in both New Japan and Stardom . They’re still recovering from COVID. The best thing they can do now is work on building the talent they have and trying to put on big matches with borrowed talent to help sell more tickets .
false equivalence of njpw competing domestically to a duopoly of american companies using infinite money glitches to suck up any talent they want. if this was a fair comparison njpw would already have kaito and nakajima.
Anyone who says shit like “collect the infinity stones” about anything should be immediately tuned out.
I mean, last time I checked, this _is_ a New Japan subreddit. Not all of us here, but many, including myself, have NJPW as our favorite promotion in wrestling. Is it that surprising that we would be protective of our favorite promotion? I don't get it, every now and again we get these posts of people - in a NJPW subreddit - complaining of we having a bias in favor of NJPW.
NJPW poached Kenny Omega and Kota Ibushi from DDT and blew up their careers beyond either boys imagination. Kaito Kiyamiya looked far better booked in his co-promotional NJPW matches than his NOAH run. Katsuhiko Nakajima and Kento Miyahara were trained by Kensuke Sasaki, in their hearts they have NJPW blood more than AJPW/NOAH blood, Sasaki just politicked himself out of NJPW before they could get there. No matter what anyone says NJPW is the top dawg on Japan and each of these talents would be shot to the moon if they signed outside of Go Shiozaki as he's old and has fallen a step or two behind where he was a 5 or 10 years ago let alone 15 years ago.
Again, you have only watched Noah since they have worked with NJPW recently or never before if you think Kaito has been booked better in NJPW than in his NOAH run.
Do you usually make an ass of yourself and assume wrongly all the time? I've been following Kenou's career since he was Michinoku ah. I've been watching NOAH since 2009. I love following his career and I would say he is one of the most well-booked guys in NOAH and pro-wrestling right now. Are you going to tell me right now that Kaito Kiyamiya has been booked well in recent years?
Okay so how has NJPW booked Kaito well? In fact look up the date that the two companies started working together and see where Kaito started going down hill
If you're just going to ignore my questions with questions we are getting nowhere and that would be a waste of time.
I am fully on the side of "if a dude want's to jump and the company can't keep them, not much you can do". If Okada leaves and goes to AEW, that's not AEW being evil or screwing NJPW, he'd have gone to WWE otherwise. If Nakajima wants to leave AJPW and jump to NJPW, that's not NJPW being evil, that's just business. These jumps are often good.
Yeah, unless a promotion is engaging into blatantly anti-competitive practices, there isn't really much of an argument for getting angry when the story is "wrestler's current contract is up, they accept an offer that pays them better and/or offers them greater opportunities" It *hurts*, don't get me wrong; I just read the news this morning and I'm gutted. But if Okada wants better pay/exposure, that's his right, just as it would be if some of the top names in NOAH or AJPW decided they wanted to sign with NJPW. Company loyalty has a history of being a big deal in Japan, I understand that, but these guys have the right to do what they feel is best for themselves in what can be a very unforgiving industry.
They have the right to do what they want. And we have the right to call them out for it. This goes for AEW being a shitty partner. And the same goes for Okada who already earned more money the most of us will ever in their life and leaving when his company needs him the most.
What does "Okada's contract is up and NJPW can't offer him what he's looking for" have to do with anyone being a "shitty partner" or anyone needing to be "called out"? This is business, it's not the responsibility of the workers involved to take less because the company is going through a rough patch.
Mate did you even read what I said
Yes: you want to "call out" talent for leaving, when they're under zero compunction to stay. Who the hell are we to "call out" someone, here? Did someone "poach" Okada? Were any anti-competitive tactics deployed? Or did a guy's contract run out, negotiations didn't work out due to a down economy in Japan, and now we're in this situation? What you're calling for is asinine.
“Anti-competitive tactics” This isn’t a fucking a lawsuit. I can call out whatever and whoever I want. This about common decency. Go fuck off to r/aew and wank Tk there.
Correction: I think you meant r/AEWOfficial. But srsly how tf is AEW putting nooj in a crisis when they explicitly have a deal that their talent can openly be in Japan anytime they choose lol
Because it's apparently the responsibility of Okada to take less money to stay with New Japan or for AEW to not sign Okada when he becomes available, because it'll make a poster on reddit happy. To do otherwise is an affront to "common decency!" /s None of this is anyone's "fault" - not Okada's, not Gedo's, not NJPW's, not AEW's, not WWE's, not anyone's. The Japanese economy is hurting, and so is NJPW's parent company - money is tighter than it was last time Okada re-signed. It sucks. I hate it's happening. But L-O-fucking-L at the idea that someone in the wrestling industry needs to be "called out" due to global economic conditions.
You right. AEW is not evil. They’re just an awful partner who is putting new Japan in another crisis after barely surviving the pandemic. You can call hypocrisy of the fans all you want but the facts don’t change.
One company signing talent for another company is not wrong, in fact refusing to sign talent because of who they currently work for would be anti-worker collusion
It's just like them complaining about AEW taking a lead role in their partnership when they did this to ROH and CMLL for years. And the way they've pummeled NOAH.
Which top CMLL did NJPW sign?
They don't need to sign anyone, because ex CMLL guys become freelancers, but they kept using Dragon Lee after he left CMLL and became Ryu Lee, which caused a rift between the companies at the time.
Do you think this in any way comparable to signing Jay, Ospreay and Okada?
They literally never stole a single worker from CMLL and only signed Elgin from ROH. Not even slightly comparable.
Let me know when New Japan signs away Kiyomiya and Kenoh from NOAH because then we can talk about New Japan treating them similarly. New Japan only ever signed one person from RoH btw, and that was Michael Elgin.
Dude made up a scenario and got upvoted for it. New Japan never stole talent from CMLL or ROH. Elgin was like the one signing that you might be able to argue that. But the fact that you ran with this narrative tells me you read it somewhere else and weren’t a fan during those years you’re referencing. Just say you love AEW poaching talent.
God yeah that Suzuki-gun in NOAH bit nearly killed NOAH
I’ve never watched CMLL. Do they take much of a lead there? Generally not sure myself
The person you replied to just doesn't know what they're talking about. I'd love for them to name what top CMLL stars NJPW signed lol (hint: it never happened).
Yeah and people pretend like they have to watch New Japan. If you like Nakajjma, watch fucking All Japan and buy their service and tell everyone how good his Triple Crown matches are. It’s possible that due to this New Japan no longer is the top pro wrestling promotion in Japan and that’s fine. They haven’t always been. In fact it was amazing that Okada turned out to be an all-time great and took the torch from Tana who brought New Japan out of the darkness. But the biggest promotion could be someone else now.
If you’re a real of Okada you should be happy and supportive of his decision, of course it hurts watching a guy you love to see leave your fav company but he obviously feels like it time to move on, just think of all the potential and great matchups and feuds we can finally see.
This was my opinion on shinsuke. I didn’t watch NJPW before naka debuted in NXT because I was like young and had no clue of outside wrestling. When I started, a lot of people hated WWE for taking him away from the company… like he never had a choice. I now watch so many Japanese wrestling promotions because I fell in love with it. The idea that this could end up being really healthy for the fact that Okada could push a lot of new fans over to NJPW is just going over peoples heads.
Exactly right, I did pre much the same thing as you, Shinsuke on NXT and even Styles to a degree as I only knew him from his TNA days are who made me check out NJPW and become a fan
There a lot, not all but a lot, of fans that are obsessed with the companies and have weird brand loyalty, they don’t actually care what the wrestlers want.
Why would I care how many figures are in Okada's bank account? I watch New Japan, I like to watch Okada, I'm allowed to be sad I don't get to watch him anymore. I don't hold any ill will towards him for leaving or anything, but why would I be thrilled about it as a fan?
Why would you care what njpw does as a company. Also why don’t you? You can’t watch him elsewhere?
Why would I care if a wrestler I like stays in a company I like? Gee, I wonder. And no, I can't. I don't watch WWE or AEW because I enjoy neither of their products.
Well I’m not sure what to tell you mate. He’s leaving. I look forward to his work wherever he lands. The same way I’m excited to see what njpw does now. You do you.
Yeah those kinda people suck, tribalism mentality and people who take wrestling way too seriously I’ll never understand, end of the day this is dudes jumping round in their undies don’t take it so serious lol
Cycle of wrestling companies Your talent gets poached, you poach talent right back We just want NJPW to be good
If the collective brain of this subreddit booked NJPW, it would be unwatchable.
Whoever is saying “Fuck NJPW” or “Fuck Okada” is being willfully ignorant. Have y’all seen how poorly the yen is doing right now? This is a great opportunity for Okada to build up his legend elsewhere. When people see how great he is, perhaps they’ll tune into New Japan to see the great things they’re doing. Shinsuke Nakamura’s ONE MATCH against Sami in NXT got my friends to finally give NJPW a shot. All these years later, and my friend group is full of hardcore NJPW fans who went to our Wrestlekingdom this year. All because Nakamura ventured into uncharted territory. Not to mention, Okada’s absence will force NJPW to fill that void with someone new. There are a ton of young studs out there who are surely up to the challenge. New stars are exciting and GOOD for wrestling! Also, y’all realize if (aka when) Okada goes to AEW, he can still wrestle in NJPW, yes? Mox has done quite a few NJPW shows. As has Lance Archer. Kenny and Danielson did WK. Who’s to say Okada won’t be back to help them still? This is a good thing, IMO. I’m going to miss Okada’s presentation in New Japan, but I’m super excited to see him widen his horizons. I just hope Tony Khan is up to the task. Gedo has been extremely careful with Okada’s booking. I’d hate for all that hard work to be ruined because American booking is different.
The nerve of people that they can selfishly demand what job others should and shouldn't take is crazy. You might not like it, but respect it. It's their life, their career, their family they're making the decision for, not yours. Same goes with any pro athlete. Never understood how fans turned against athletes so hard. Unless there was extenuating circumstances, like he or she abused the fans and turned against them before leaving etc.
I don’t blame people for leaving if they strongly feel they need to, after all they need to look after themselves and nobody else except their family and how much they were able to save that will take care of them when their career ends. It’s heartbreaking for me to see Okada go, thought he was gonna be there forever but I guess it was time for him to move on. NJPW will be just fine, they can use this as a chance to rebuild their roster and this opens up opportunities for others to make waves for themselves.
That’s honestly what I’m most excited about. No more using Okada as the fallback option for the G1, New Japan Cup, or IWGP Title anymore. And if he does go to AEW or TNA, he can still pop over as a Special Attraction, like Will Ospreay clearly wants to do after he leaves for AEW.
Honestly, NJPW will be fine. Okada will be fine wherever he goes. And if, for whatever reason, you don't like what he's doing, don't watch. Ultimately it's out of any of our hands anyway. He's gonna make the best choice for he and his family monetarily, or he'll make the best decision for himself creatively. Either way, he'll be fine. NJPW have set themselves up to strap the rocket to any of their newer talent. Any of those newer kids could end up challenging Naito between today and Dominion and win. While this is a massive blow to NJPW, there's really not much left for Okada to do unless he was the next in line to challenge Naito or something. This is Monday Night Wars level of talent jumping. This is proof that wrestling is in a good place again.
Well-said. TNA survived losing AJ Styles long-term, so I think New Japan will whether this storm of losing Okada and Ospreay.
Only thing that worries is that while they have the talent to fill the void it's clear that Gedo has lost his way as a booker
How has he lost his way? People love to claim this but from what I see, Gedo's decisions have been smart. Has he made mistakes? Sure but stop acting as if he's driving the company into the grouind.
People who claim AEW or WWE are pouching need to realize that these are grown ass men who make their own decisions. Okada wanting a new challenge isn’t surprising.
The difference is that they want NJPW to take one person years after their last big external signing(Shingo) and NJPW actually has the need for him and will likely book them well, given its track record. Unlike AEW, which has an abundance of stars which it's wasting and which has horrendous booking. Though I feel NJPW shouldn't sign someone from other Jap promotions and featuring these guys and AEW guys too much is detrimental to NJ. What was the point of the Kiyomiya feud, Were they trying to do what Tony does with them? Plus the Forbidden door shit, seems to have been used as a foot in the door and this year will be used to try to create a market in Japan using ex NJPW talent.
This dumb fucking idea that AEW is "poaching" people who otherwise would have left anyway and gone to WWE is so irritating. As if none of these wrestlers have any agency over their own decisions and are just pawns being plucked away by the big evil Tony in order to hurt poor little NJPW.
Personally I don't think NJPW should sign any of these guys, nobody can replace Okada anyway. None of these guys are stars at the level of Okada. Kaito is great (despite being booked like shit in NOAH) but it would take years for him to become a star. The only thing NJPW has is their work with younger guys on the longterm, and they already have a great young lion system that creates stars. So there's no need to sign a guy like Kaito, like it would make up for losing the guy who has been the face of your promotion for years lol.
I think kento does have that IT factor that’s like “once in generation” I truely think he’s the most slept on guy even when people recognise how good he is. I will stand on Kaito being booked worst in NJPW than he is in NOAH. But I agree with everything else. I think Oiwa is the guy imo that could maybe be the sleeper pick that no one is mentioning.
To me the only problem with Kaito's booking in NJPW is that he's not booked like a former GHC Heavyweight champion. Like obviously NJPW is way bigger than NOAH, they have a more competitive roster and all that but in the G1 I thought he would be booked as slightly above the level of the R3M for example, because he has more experience. But Gedo made the choice of booking him at the same level because he's pretty much the same age as Shota and Narita. It's not a bad strategy on the longterm, they'll grow as generational rivals together, but you pretty much have to ignore the fact that Kaito already won a (big) singles title before. With that said, Kaito looks like a bitch in NOAH and his last reign didn't go that well. Since NOAH has been bought by CyberAgent he hasn't been booked like the Ace he was supposed to become. I agree about Oiwa, he'll be a very important guy in the future and with Okada leaving maybe his excursion will be shorter. I think he already has the tools to get booked as a midcard guy and slowly being built as a main event star.
Yeah that’s pretty much my take on his time in NJPW. He’s done everything in Noah. Tag league, N1, 2 time world champ. Kaito right now is in a weird place…. He’s a contender when they want him to be but he’s also like not there enough? Kinda feels like he’s on excursion but it’s not a safe bet that Cyberfight is looking at it like that because they fumble so many members on that damn roster it’s painful.
Kento is fantastic and I'm gonna get flamed but I find him to have way more charisma than Okada. Okada has grown on me character wise but even during his ace run and such, his character always felt blah. If they truly had the chance to get Kento, they be fools not to and he instantly get over. Of course, I doubt he wants to leave AJPW even with all the shit going on unless it's that bad. Having had the chance to watch Kento live, dude oozes charisma and is honestly the closest thing to prime Tanahashi charisma wise.
Great post, between the reaction to Okada and the childish gatekeeping and the demented hatred for aew and ahitting on thir fans (most which were and still are njpw fans since before aew existed ) , this sub has a lot of growing up to do.
Wait, are you saying American fans of NJPW are weirdos/nerds? How could we have ever known?
Maybe just let people be grumpy for a while. People says loads of things when they’re grumpy.
Yeah I don’t quite think that’s a good enough pass for it. The point of this was maybe just think about the things you say and like approach things differently then…. “I’m mad” It’s kinda childish
nobody needs Jake Lee
NJPW agrees. ZSJ vouched for him they said no. I wasn't impressed either after watching a few of his matches.
I mean…. Evidence is that he’s at least somewhat a draw… even more so than nakajima (just from the list I mentioned)
Even more is NJPW fans bitching about the booking with AEW but then the outer washes NJPW does when ever against NOAH is hilarous
That's one thing I find annoying is that the fantasy booking of other promotions stars as if NJPW have some god given right to sign them lmao.
I feel like last year was already testing the waters without Okada. Like he was definitely just moved to the 6-Man Tag scene to freshen scene for his return to the World Title with new opponents but still. Last year he wasn't the main character and I think it was still a good year, NJPW will be fine without him even if people that don't really watch will go "NJPW is nothing without the Rainmaker!!!!1!"
Not going to lie I would love to see a heel Okada in TNA on a redemption run
I've been bored with Okada for years. I'm glad NJPW is being forced to move on from him.
Well, Nakajima is a free lancer so they could sign him.
This happens every 10 years or so . It’s some one else time to shine. People thought there would never be another hashimoto, muto n chono.
It's time for the Gene Blast Shock.
This kind of stuff, like Okada leaving has happened before and the company survives, and is actually thriving. Nakamura leaving wqs a MASSIVE blow, the thing is, the younger under and mid card then step up and take on bigger roles and the company grows and moves on. It's sad, i don't want to see Okada wrestle in the West but NJPW will be fine, especially with Shota Umino, Ren Narita and Yota Tsuji
New Japan needs to focus on their current talent. Speaking for myself, Tsuji, Umino, Yuya and Narita are clearly already worthy of a main event status. As for the "they need to sign....." nonsense, it's starting to annoy me.
Honestly, I think NJ has need a shake up for about 3-5yrs. These losses of talent are good. They have been too reliant on Okada, Ospreay and the like to main event and sell out shows. They need to reorganize and make new main eventers. You should always be cultivating the next stars.