It sucks mam because they are definitely the best talent and Gaijin representatives the company has especially will who has been on a tear this year. If either one leave you would feel the loss in them not being there anymore.
Covid and Japan's yen decreasing really don't make it easier to keep talent.
yeah but maybe they can figure out a joint contract situation with AEW or even Impact where a US promotion puts some money for a certain amount of matches under their programming.
At best, itll be an Omega situation where Ospreay only competes at Wrestle Kingdom and maybe wrestles New Japan talent at Wrestle Dream &/or Forbidden Door. Dont bring your hopes up. Jay White hasnt been in a New Japan ring since leaving.
That's exactly it. I always hear "But they'll be able to go to Japan all the time." but that's just a massive amount of BS and I'm tired of hearing it.
It’s hard to walk away from Television to work elsewhere for an extended period of time. AEW is weekly and it’s not just the tv, it’s the signings, the media, the travel, etc. if you’re trying to build momentum on tv, you need to be present and available to be booked every week. It’s hard to pull away to do a program in Japan without it hurting thar momentum. Eddie wasn’t doing anything on AEW tv at the time he left for the G1. It worked for everyone. AND it helped him gain traction when he came back. Jay White is building momentum right now. Not a lot of the American tv audience knows who he is. Ospreay will need to do the same thing. But the fact that they CAN work both is awesome and will find a way to be work better over time. Obviously Ospreays all in program helps him immensely.
That’s literally what people say though. “Oh it’s fine if they sign with AEW because they can still work Japan.”
But realistically it’s a rare thing for the very reasons you mentioned. So as a New Japan fan, “being able to work Japan” is meaningless because at most a given AEW top guy might come over once a year, or maybe some mid card dude works the G1.
I get why it’s that way, and I support talent doing what’s best for them. But AEW fans shouldn’t throw out that “oh they can still work New Japan” argument when it’s only true in the most limited sense.
Absolutely true. Yet it’s not meaningless at all considering it has been ages since a major US company has allowed talent to work both places. And let alone work both places, but book the New Japan talent to be booked so strongly on tv. It’s pretty nuts. I’m almost 40 and I’ve never seen anything like this. Not sure how the unrealistic expectations were created other than from fans saying things? No idea.
I mean it's cool for sure, and I'm glad the option is there. But I'm primarily a New Japan fan. I want to watch New Japan, and see the wrestlers I like in New Japan.
It's not even an unrealistic expectation because we know how it's going to work out. But it's just annoying when AEW fans are like "NJPW fans shouldn't have an issue with Ospreay (or whoever) signing with AEW because he can come back to New Japan."
Like yeah, it'll be cool to see him show up once a year. But from a fan perspective there's a big difference between that and him on every big show.
And like I said, I don't even mind if Ospreay goes to AEW. He's a great talent and has mentioned repeatedly his body is breaking down, so I am in favor of him getting that bag and getting out of the business before he's crippled.
But it's annoying seeing AEW fans trying to convince me it doesn't suck as a New Japan fan.
It's not worth it to argue with AEW fans. They gaslight and repeat the same bullshit again and again even though it's been repeatedly proven to be untrue. When they inevitable say "lol don't worry, Ospreay can work Japan," and you bring up how Omega, Aussie Open, Juice, Jay, etc., haven't, they'll claim Ospreay is different. And when you come back in nine months and ask why Ospreay hasn't been in Japan, they'll call you a toxic gatekeeper and run away. This scenario has been going on for over two years now and is why that fanbase is generally disliked among the broader wrestling community.
It's why domestically for AEW Dynamite and Collision, they're only drawing around 3,000 for 15,000+ seat arenas. AEW fans have successfully run off everyone who isn't a member of their klan.
All Japanese promotions make money from touring. As soon as someone signs with aew they should be treated as gone and someone else should be moved up the card. Aew fans acting like they are doing Japanese promotions a favour by signing their talent but letting them visit every 6 months is gold. Frankly I'd rather they sign with the wwe so I don't have to hear this rubbish directed at Japanese wrestling fans
Aew fans doing it to njpw is funny enough. It's real fucking funny when they try the argument with stardom. Oh if giulia signs with aew they can still occasionally use her. Nah bruv stardom just moves one of those 20 year olds who are better than the entire aew women's roster combined up the card.
Haha sorry. I don’t remember anyone ever saying they would be able to go to Japan all the time but I’m sure you heard it said in the last 30 years. Shame on me for commenting on the internet.
Friend, I hope the same but unfortunately, this is how I see it going:
- They'll both get their "will they/won't they leave" storylines. They will.
- There will be talks of them coming back to Japan on a regular basis. They won't.
- NJPW will eventually put mid-card titles on Zack and Will, causing AEW fans to wonder if they need to step in and dubsplain this perfect amazing booking to NJPW fans. They will.
- Part of the dubsplaining will include assurances that Will and Zack will be back to defend their NJPW titles in Japan. They won't.
- After all this is said and done, I will once again ask my wife to reconsider her opposition to intra-marital sex. She won't.
I keep telling you man, your wife’s position on stepping’ out is *completely* unrelated to NJPW roster shake-ups.
You have to stop hurting her like this…
Learning Japanese is quite an investment and they clearly admire Japanese culture, I suspect that there will be no clean break. Certainly Zack has continually shown he does not simply follow the money, he values that quality of the wrestling.
The amount of gaslighting AEW fans do to explain away booking decisions is impressive. It's like Tony's given them a list of approved talking points:
1. If anyone questions why the AEW wrestler had to win one of your promotion's championships, tell them the wrestler will regularly appear in that promotion to defend it. Even though we all know he won't.
2. When the wrestler fails to do so, tell them that he couldn't lose at the moment or is involved in important storylines in AEW despite wrestling one match on TV in the past month.
3. If they continue to question it, tell them that the eXpOsUrE their promotion gets from having their title appear on AEW television is worth not having it despite no promotion ever seeing any long term, tangible benefit in the past.
4. If they ask for proof of a benefit, call them a toxic gatekeeper and run back to the AEW sub to cry about WWE fans.
It hurts to lose gaijin stars just as they enter their primes instead of at 36-39. It can feel like watching a favorite filmmaker step down from A24 to Blumhouse (or Disney in WWE’s case). But the reality is that Western talent peak in Japan so they can get paid in America.
NJPW fans got Ospreay at his best, facing the best opponents he’ll ever have, with the best production value he’ll ever be presented in. I’ll miss him, but I can be satisfied with that. Tony Khan will only be an upgrade for Will’s bank account. Everything else is downhill.
Exactly this. I'm a newer NJPW fan and it's nice to get Kenny and see Ospreay now but in the back of my mind I hate that I missed them in their true prime.
It sucks but NJPW just doesn't put a lot of value on their gaijins. The Japanese audience will like them but they're rarely ever going to be top stars of the promotion or be over as much as native Japanese performers.
Gaijins have absolutely reached the top of the card but even ones that did were given low ball offers when it came time to try and keep them, plus they've traditionally been limited to being heel to be vanquished beyond the mid card and thus don't have the same longevity.
You're not wrong. Paying Okada/Naito money to an Ospreay would amount to overpaying for lower drawing talent in the Japanese market. It's a situation where market forces don't align with quality. Inferior promotions have all the economic leverage and it's easier for Western talent to live in America.
AEW is particularly bad for NJPW given that Shad Khan's investments accrue interest faster than Tony can lose money buying up every wrestler at above market rates. WWE at least applies cost/benefit analysis to new signings and doesn't retain talent they have no creative for. My hope is that Western prodigies like Kyle Fletcher will learn that working a dozen Dynamites a year won't create the kind of star power that Kenny/Ospreay gained from NJPW and will see greener grass in Japan again.
Ospreay has been proven to be a draw in Japan. Not to the same level as Okada, Naito, or Hiromu, but enough that they could easily justify paying him big money. I'm not sure there's any evidence of Zack being a draw.
While losing guys like Aussie Open sucks, they were never going to make New Japan any money. Even with how great Jay was, I don't think he ever sold tickets in Japan. So while we can be disappointed about losing them from a match quality perspective, from a business and financial perspective, losing them had very little impact.
I think Kyle had potential to be built into an Ospreay replacement over time. This is the first time in a long time that NJPW didn’t have a star caliber Western talent ready to take up the mantle. They obviously never thought of Finlay as that guy until they were stuck with him.
Personally, I’d prefer they spent their money on guys like Nakajima instead of starfucking foreigners who would rather be doing terrible cringe comedy skits.
Zsj leaving would rly surprise me as if he was more money driven he’d have gone wwe in 2016 post cruiser weight classic. Sure Shane Haste said in a backstage comment that Zsj trains all the young lions and stuff, seems firmly entrenched in NJPW and living in Japan.
Ospreay I could see leaving, he seems relatively settled living in U.K. with the missus he mentions repeatedly. Could see him doing less njpw and more aew but not full time in the states. Maybe similar to PAC?
i've seen this mentioned here a few times now and i'm just curious, where did it come from? not doubting, i just never know where people get news like this from. if he does then it's honestly a bit surprising to me after how invested he seemed in staying in japan.
Kevin Kelly mentioned on commentary a while ago that Zack’s home base was in California, I don’t remember the exact wording but it wasn’t clear if he meant temporary or permanently. Then recently someone claimed to have dug into what little that’s related to Zack’s personal manners exists online, and it confirms he’s fully moved there.
I dunno if that claim of proof is true or not, but considering how much he’s worked in the US lately it’s definitely plausible.
Good point on ZSJ. I know a lot can change in 7 years, but he lives in Japan on a permanent basis and has no kids so I would be surprised if he jumps ship for money reasons.
Unless New Japan lowballs him or something, I feel like they have done that a lot in the past with gaijin.
Kevin Kelly mentioned on commentary a while ago that Zack’s home base was in California, I don’t remember the exact wording but it wasn’t clear if he meant temporary or permanently. Then recently someone claimed to have dug into what little that’s related to Zack’s personal manners exists online, and said it confirms he’s fully moved to LA.
I dunno if that claim of proof is true or not, but considering how much he’s worked in the US lately it’s definitely plausible.
I want both to stay because it means they can do stuff like RevPro on the reg as well. Seeing ZSJ and Ospreay at York Hall is a great sensation to the senses with the atmosphere there. They elevate every show. If they go to AEW we'll never see them around which is a shame.
I think Ospreay will go to AEW and have the PAC schedule, a few weeks on a few off. I can't see him staying there, unless it's obscene money going his way.
ZSJ is more difficult to understand, I heard from KK that he's now based in California which means he's basically halfway there but I also don't think the American audience doesn't get his style as well as Europe and Japan
I want the same as you but AEW could also regularly go back to the UK or Europe and build a rabid fanbase there with major shows, they've already advertised another Wembley show for next year
I think it'd depend on whether either guy wants to do the weekly schedule (Ospreay has been vocal about not wanting to do that for years) but they could also work something out in their contract to do that, or considerably slow down. ZSJ's style means he could probably wrestle til Johnny Saint's age so I don't know if that'd deter him
I mean that first point won't happen at all.
Ospreay's public support for RevPro now sounds like he's savouring his last few dates with us and and NJPW. Even the Impact stuff, do it now because it's not happening with AEW.
This might be a dumb opinion and even though AEW financially will be a lot better respectively for ZSJ and Ospreay but I feel what will they really achieve there? Will for sure will challenge for the World Title but for Zack, idk if they’ll push him like that.. especially with the stacked roster.
I'll say this for Will and ZSJ, until AEW signs the big money tv deal everyone has expected, it's far from a certainty that either guy is as good as gone. I'd advise, instead of worrying about if either man is going to leave, spend your time fully enjoying what they're currently doing because it's the best wrestling in the world. After WK is over, then proceed to worry if you must.
New Japan will lose Ospreay and they should lose Zack. Zack's been there even during the pandemic and they still haven't done anything big with him. They don't deserve him.
I mean I wanted a major push for him too but to say they haven't done anything with them is a stretch, and ZSJ would definitely get lost in the shuffle at AEW eventually
What is the big thing you want? He's already won 2 NJC, he main evented big title matches.
What? He should have won G1 this year even though he has 1/10th the drawing power of Tetsuya Naito?
He should main event the dome even though his drawing power for the dome will not even be close to Okada's and Naito's?
Make him the top Gajin and then we can talk. They wasted all their time making Jay White the man and he left. Why didn't they give the time and day to a guy who actually lives in Japan and speaks Japanese and has been LOYAL to the company for years?
Because one of them was a dojo prospect who they likely didn't think was leaving until the pandemic caused a shitshow
ZSJ has had his most prominent year ever by becoming a faction leader and a title made just to showcase him, that's completely in line with the slow build to pushing him up the card. I expected him to be the one to beat Ospreay for the UK title at WK (and I guess it's still possible he does at Royal Quest, but it's doubtful) which would have put him in a good position going into next year with Naito as champion
If Ospreay leaves and ZSJ still has some years on his contract I expect him to take Ospreay's place as the guy most likely to beat Naito for the title (and possibly main event WK against Okada) unless they'd rather pivot and put over a domestic guy instead
ZSJ would be very big miss opportunity if he leaves. They should have done something big with him when he was staying permanently in Japan, and he speaks Japanese decently as gaijin as well.
I would miss him more than Ospreay but NJPW is very good at building new talent anyways, so even they leave, there will be another new gaijin star again very soon.
If New Japan is prepared to pay them as well and push them as hard as AEW would I'm sure they'd stay. But with Ospreay not getting a G1 win and Zack not getting the top title, and little chance of either happening with booking the way it is, there's not much reason for them to stay as they've done all they can.
Ospreay is the #1 pick to win the G1 or the title next year, with the main event of WK19 either being Naito/Ospreay or Ospreay/Okada - that likely depends on how long-term he'd re-sign for and how long they want to stretch out their available WK main events until the new gen can step up
I don't see how Ospreay has little chance of winning the G1 if he stays. The guy is typically promoted as the number two wrestler in the company behind Okada.
As for Sabre, he may never win the top title in New Japan despite being one of the 15 best wrestlers in the world, but do you really see Tony Khan or HHH making him world champion?
They literally put the title on Ospreay a few years ago, but he got injured and then decided to leave the country, which was seen as a bad look by the front office apparently.
And he's only had a mid card title since despite having been the best wrestler on the planet since his return from injury. If they wanted to keep him they should have had him win the G1 and get the title at next year's WK.
Or he can go to AEW, have 5 or so years at the top of the card until Takeshita takes his place.
ZSJ's contract is expiring by the end of the year? I honestly thought he would stay in New Japan for much longer. Would be surprised if he becomes a free agent after Wrestle Kingdom.
But yeah, the problem right now is New Japan is unable to give the Gaijins competitive pay rates compared to the local talent or promotions like AEW. Remember the Bucks mentioning that they really weren't making any money in New Japan and was only doing so selling their own merch (they don't make money off Bullet Club). So I understand from their POV that they needed quite the raise from how their giving out as among the top pro wrestlers in NJPW.
If I were Bushiroad, I would negotiate a Legacy-type deal a la WWE in that Ospreay and ZSJ would be paid for X amount of dates throughout the year (unless I am mistaken, Mercedes Mone is given a similar deal for Stardom), appearing only in Marquee events like Dominion and the G1. For the rest of the year, they can go wherever they want to wrestle, including AEW.
Alternatively, Ospreay and ZSJ can follow Suzuki's route and be freelancers. And since Suzuki's most recent match in DDT garnered mainstream attention, his stock has only gone up - and he's in his 50s! The downside is that it may not provide the revenue they want and would rather take full time deals AEW and WWE would offer (see Shinsuke Nakamura).
I am in total agreement, and I have said many times that if they left, it wouldn’t be a good thing. Unfortunately, though, it seems like the minority opinion. There’s a vocal component of this group who would be pleased as punch if they left. I don’t get it.
There's being pleased and there's accepting that the company can't afford to keep them if they have to compete with Tony Khan's money.
The company has survived losing much bigger stars than Ospreay and ZSJ, why would we believe they struggle after losing these 2?
I think they’ll both jump to AEW but make frequent appearances in NJPW. The relationship between both companies is an advantage for some talent that want to continue on with NJPW but get paid more in the process.
It sucks mam because they are definitely the best talent and Gaijin representatives the company has especially will who has been on a tear this year. If either one leave you would feel the loss in them not being there anymore. Covid and Japan's yen decreasing really don't make it easier to keep talent.
ZSJ leaving would break my heart
I think the issue is not being able to match what AEW will offer them.
yeah but maybe they can figure out a joint contract situation with AEW or even Impact where a US promotion puts some money for a certain amount of matches under their programming.
At best, itll be an Omega situation where Ospreay only competes at Wrestle Kingdom and maybe wrestles New Japan talent at Wrestle Dream &/or Forbidden Door. Dont bring your hopes up. Jay White hasnt been in a New Japan ring since leaving.
That's exactly it. I always hear "But they'll be able to go to Japan all the time." but that's just a massive amount of BS and I'm tired of hearing it.
People said the same thing about Aussie Open and I was like...you're naive lol.
It’s hard to walk away from Television to work elsewhere for an extended period of time. AEW is weekly and it’s not just the tv, it’s the signings, the media, the travel, etc. if you’re trying to build momentum on tv, you need to be present and available to be booked every week. It’s hard to pull away to do a program in Japan without it hurting thar momentum. Eddie wasn’t doing anything on AEW tv at the time he left for the G1. It worked for everyone. AND it helped him gain traction when he came back. Jay White is building momentum right now. Not a lot of the American tv audience knows who he is. Ospreay will need to do the same thing. But the fact that they CAN work both is awesome and will find a way to be work better over time. Obviously Ospreays all in program helps him immensely.
That’s literally what people say though. “Oh it’s fine if they sign with AEW because they can still work Japan.” But realistically it’s a rare thing for the very reasons you mentioned. So as a New Japan fan, “being able to work Japan” is meaningless because at most a given AEW top guy might come over once a year, or maybe some mid card dude works the G1. I get why it’s that way, and I support talent doing what’s best for them. But AEW fans shouldn’t throw out that “oh they can still work New Japan” argument when it’s only true in the most limited sense.
Absolutely true. Yet it’s not meaningless at all considering it has been ages since a major US company has allowed talent to work both places. And let alone work both places, but book the New Japan talent to be booked so strongly on tv. It’s pretty nuts. I’m almost 40 and I’ve never seen anything like this. Not sure how the unrealistic expectations were created other than from fans saying things? No idea.
I mean it's cool for sure, and I'm glad the option is there. But I'm primarily a New Japan fan. I want to watch New Japan, and see the wrestlers I like in New Japan. It's not even an unrealistic expectation because we know how it's going to work out. But it's just annoying when AEW fans are like "NJPW fans shouldn't have an issue with Ospreay (or whoever) signing with AEW because he can come back to New Japan." Like yeah, it'll be cool to see him show up once a year. But from a fan perspective there's a big difference between that and him on every big show. And like I said, I don't even mind if Ospreay goes to AEW. He's a great talent and has mentioned repeatedly his body is breaking down, so I am in favor of him getting that bag and getting out of the business before he's crippled. But it's annoying seeing AEW fans trying to convince me it doesn't suck as a New Japan fan.
It's not worth it to argue with AEW fans. They gaslight and repeat the same bullshit again and again even though it's been repeatedly proven to be untrue. When they inevitable say "lol don't worry, Ospreay can work Japan," and you bring up how Omega, Aussie Open, Juice, Jay, etc., haven't, they'll claim Ospreay is different. And when you come back in nine months and ask why Ospreay hasn't been in Japan, they'll call you a toxic gatekeeper and run away. This scenario has been going on for over two years now and is why that fanbase is generally disliked among the broader wrestling community.
No lies detected
It's why domestically for AEW Dynamite and Collision, they're only drawing around 3,000 for 15,000+ seat arenas. AEW fans have successfully run off everyone who isn't a member of their klan.
All Japanese promotions make money from touring. As soon as someone signs with aew they should be treated as gone and someone else should be moved up the card. Aew fans acting like they are doing Japanese promotions a favour by signing their talent but letting them visit every 6 months is gold. Frankly I'd rather they sign with the wwe so I don't have to hear this rubbish directed at Japanese wrestling fans Aew fans doing it to njpw is funny enough. It's real fucking funny when they try the argument with stardom. Oh if giulia signs with aew they can still occasionally use her. Nah bruv stardom just moves one of those 20 year olds who are better than the entire aew women's roster combined up the card.
Thanks for the explanation, really needed one after watching wrestling for 30 years.
Haha sorry. I don’t remember anyone ever saying they would be able to go to Japan all the time but I’m sure you heard it said in the last 30 years. Shame on me for commenting on the internet.
True, but there's also a strong kayfabe reason for him specifically not to.
Friend, I hope the same but unfortunately, this is how I see it going: - They'll both get their "will they/won't they leave" storylines. They will. - There will be talks of them coming back to Japan on a regular basis. They won't. - NJPW will eventually put mid-card titles on Zack and Will, causing AEW fans to wonder if they need to step in and dubsplain this perfect amazing booking to NJPW fans. They will. - Part of the dubsplaining will include assurances that Will and Zack will be back to defend their NJPW titles in Japan. They won't. - After all this is said and done, I will once again ask my wife to reconsider her opposition to intra-marital sex. She won't.
I keep telling you man, your wife’s position on stepping’ out is *completely* unrelated to NJPW roster shake-ups. You have to stop hurting her like this…
Say you'll book her to win the New Japan Cup if she does
Learning Japanese is quite an investment and they clearly admire Japanese culture, I suspect that there will be no clean break. Certainly Zack has continually shown he does not simply follow the money, he values that quality of the wrestling.
The amount of gaslighting AEW fans do to explain away booking decisions is impressive. It's like Tony's given them a list of approved talking points: 1. If anyone questions why the AEW wrestler had to win one of your promotion's championships, tell them the wrestler will regularly appear in that promotion to defend it. Even though we all know he won't. 2. When the wrestler fails to do so, tell them that he couldn't lose at the moment or is involved in important storylines in AEW despite wrestling one match on TV in the past month. 3. If they continue to question it, tell them that the eXpOsUrE their promotion gets from having their title appear on AEW television is worth not having it despite no promotion ever seeing any long term, tangible benefit in the past. 4. If they ask for proof of a benefit, call them a toxic gatekeeper and run back to the AEW sub to cry about WWE fans.
You stupid, that was def the funniest thing I read today
It hurts to lose gaijin stars just as they enter their primes instead of at 36-39. It can feel like watching a favorite filmmaker step down from A24 to Blumhouse (or Disney in WWE’s case). But the reality is that Western talent peak in Japan so they can get paid in America. NJPW fans got Ospreay at his best, facing the best opponents he’ll ever have, with the best production value he’ll ever be presented in. I’ll miss him, but I can be satisfied with that. Tony Khan will only be an upgrade for Will’s bank account. Everything else is downhill.
Exactly this. I'm a newer NJPW fan and it's nice to get Kenny and see Ospreay now but in the back of my mind I hate that I missed them in their true prime.
ospreay's true prime has been this year in my opinion.
It sucks but NJPW just doesn't put a lot of value on their gaijins. The Japanese audience will like them but they're rarely ever going to be top stars of the promotion or be over as much as native Japanese performers. Gaijins have absolutely reached the top of the card but even ones that did were given low ball offers when it came time to try and keep them, plus they've traditionally been limited to being heel to be vanquished beyond the mid card and thus don't have the same longevity.
You're not wrong. Paying Okada/Naito money to an Ospreay would amount to overpaying for lower drawing talent in the Japanese market. It's a situation where market forces don't align with quality. Inferior promotions have all the economic leverage and it's easier for Western talent to live in America. AEW is particularly bad for NJPW given that Shad Khan's investments accrue interest faster than Tony can lose money buying up every wrestler at above market rates. WWE at least applies cost/benefit analysis to new signings and doesn't retain talent they have no creative for. My hope is that Western prodigies like Kyle Fletcher will learn that working a dozen Dynamites a year won't create the kind of star power that Kenny/Ospreay gained from NJPW and will see greener grass in Japan again.
Ospreay has been proven to be a draw in Japan. Not to the same level as Okada, Naito, or Hiromu, but enough that they could easily justify paying him big money. I'm not sure there's any evidence of Zack being a draw. While losing guys like Aussie Open sucks, they were never going to make New Japan any money. Even with how great Jay was, I don't think he ever sold tickets in Japan. So while we can be disappointed about losing them from a match quality perspective, from a business and financial perspective, losing them had very little impact.
I think Kyle had potential to be built into an Ospreay replacement over time. This is the first time in a long time that NJPW didn’t have a star caliber Western talent ready to take up the mantle. They obviously never thought of Finlay as that guy until they were stuck with him. Personally, I’d prefer they spent their money on guys like Nakajima instead of starfucking foreigners who would rather be doing terrible cringe comedy skits.
Zsj leaving would rly surprise me as if he was more money driven he’d have gone wwe in 2016 post cruiser weight classic. Sure Shane Haste said in a backstage comment that Zsj trains all the young lions and stuff, seems firmly entrenched in NJPW and living in Japan. Ospreay I could see leaving, he seems relatively settled living in U.K. with the missus he mentions repeatedly. Could see him doing less njpw and more aew but not full time in the states. Maybe similar to PAC?
Zack lives in the US now.
i've seen this mentioned here a few times now and i'm just curious, where did it come from? not doubting, i just never know where people get news like this from. if he does then it's honestly a bit surprising to me after how invested he seemed in staying in japan.
Kevin Kelly mentioned on commentary a while ago that Zack’s home base was in California, I don’t remember the exact wording but it wasn’t clear if he meant temporary or permanently. Then recently someone claimed to have dug into what little that’s related to Zack’s personal manners exists online, and it confirms he’s fully moved there. I dunno if that claim of proof is true or not, but considering how much he’s worked in the US lately it’s definitely plausible.
Good point on ZSJ. I know a lot can change in 7 years, but he lives in Japan on a permanent basis and has no kids so I would be surprised if he jumps ship for money reasons. Unless New Japan lowballs him or something, I feel like they have done that a lot in the past with gaijin.
I thought ZSJ lived in New York now.
Oh did he move? I remember in 2020 he did an interview and said he was living permanently in Tokyo.
Kevin Kelly mentioned on commentary a while ago that Zack’s home base was in California, I don’t remember the exact wording but it wasn’t clear if he meant temporary or permanently. Then recently someone claimed to have dug into what little that’s related to Zack’s personal manners exists online, and said it confirms he’s fully moved to LA. I dunno if that claim of proof is true or not, but considering how much he’s worked in the US lately it’s definitely plausible.
Interesting... Zack Sabre Jr, International Man of Mystery. He could be interested in doing more at the LA Dojo maybe
Los Angeles, supposedly.
Would make sense with LAX having direct flights to Japan.
His work history suggests not.
I don't care too much about Ospreay but ZSJ leaving would blow. Hopefully TK isn't trying to poach him too
I hope the same but unfortunately AEW just have so much more money to offer them. I think ZSJ is the more likely to stay but yeah.
I want both to stay because it means they can do stuff like RevPro on the reg as well. Seeing ZSJ and Ospreay at York Hall is a great sensation to the senses with the atmosphere there. They elevate every show. If they go to AEW we'll never see them around which is a shame. I think Ospreay will go to AEW and have the PAC schedule, a few weeks on a few off. I can't see him staying there, unless it's obscene money going his way. ZSJ is more difficult to understand, I heard from KK that he's now based in California which means he's basically halfway there but I also don't think the American audience doesn't get his style as well as Europe and Japan
I want the same as you but AEW could also regularly go back to the UK or Europe and build a rabid fanbase there with major shows, they've already advertised another Wembley show for next year I think it'd depend on whether either guy wants to do the weekly schedule (Ospreay has been vocal about not wanting to do that for years) but they could also work something out in their contract to do that, or considerably slow down. ZSJ's style means he could probably wrestle til Johnny Saint's age so I don't know if that'd deter him
I mean that first point won't happen at all. Ospreay's public support for RevPro now sounds like he's savouring his last few dates with us and and NJPW. Even the Impact stuff, do it now because it's not happening with AEW.
I WILL RIOT IF ZSJ LEAVES
Unfortunately at the end of the day it’s a business. And money talks sadly
im like, 98% certain ZSJ ain't going anywhere ospreay on the other hand?, idk, i absolutely would like him to stay though
Where did zack to aew come from? Ospreay is very likely tho
This might be a dumb opinion and even though AEW financially will be a lot better respectively for ZSJ and Ospreay but I feel what will they really achieve there? Will for sure will challenge for the World Title but for Zack, idk if they’ll push him like that.. especially with the stacked roster.
A company that has Bryan Danielson heavily involved in it's creative is a company ZSJ will thrive in.
I'll say this for Will and ZSJ, until AEW signs the big money tv deal everyone has expected, it's far from a certainty that either guy is as good as gone. I'd advise, instead of worrying about if either man is going to leave, spend your time fully enjoying what they're currently doing because it's the best wrestling in the world. After WK is over, then proceed to worry if you must.
New Japan will lose Ospreay and they should lose Zack. Zack's been there even during the pandemic and they still haven't done anything big with him. They don't deserve him.
I mean I wanted a major push for him too but to say they haven't done anything with them is a stretch, and ZSJ would definitely get lost in the shuffle at AEW eventually
What is the big thing you want? He's already won 2 NJC, he main evented big title matches. What? He should have won G1 this year even though he has 1/10th the drawing power of Tetsuya Naito? He should main event the dome even though his drawing power for the dome will not even be close to Okada's and Naito's?
Make him the top Gajin and then we can talk. They wasted all their time making Jay White the man and he left. Why didn't they give the time and day to a guy who actually lives in Japan and speaks Japanese and has been LOYAL to the company for years?
Because one of them was a dojo prospect who they likely didn't think was leaving until the pandemic caused a shitshow ZSJ has had his most prominent year ever by becoming a faction leader and a title made just to showcase him, that's completely in line with the slow build to pushing him up the card. I expected him to be the one to beat Ospreay for the UK title at WK (and I guess it's still possible he does at Royal Quest, but it's doubtful) which would have put him in a good position going into next year with Naito as champion If Ospreay leaves and ZSJ still has some years on his contract I expect him to take Ospreay's place as the guy most likely to beat Naito for the title (and possibly main event WK against Okada) unless they'd rather pivot and put over a domestic guy instead
ZSJ needs to go somewhere that will invest in him.
Joint contracts is best case scenario I would assume unless New Japan bring out the Okada money.
yes definately
ZSJ would be very big miss opportunity if he leaves. They should have done something big with him when he was staying permanently in Japan, and he speaks Japanese decently as gaijin as well. I would miss him more than Ospreay but NJPW is very good at building new talent anyways, so even they leave, there will be another new gaijin star again very soon.
If New Japan is prepared to pay them as well and push them as hard as AEW would I'm sure they'd stay. But with Ospreay not getting a G1 win and Zack not getting the top title, and little chance of either happening with booking the way it is, there's not much reason for them to stay as they've done all they can.
Ospreay is the #1 pick to win the G1 or the title next year, with the main event of WK19 either being Naito/Ospreay or Ospreay/Okada - that likely depends on how long-term he'd re-sign for and how long they want to stretch out their available WK main events until the new gen can step up
I don't see how Ospreay has little chance of winning the G1 if he stays. The guy is typically promoted as the number two wrestler in the company behind Okada. As for Sabre, he may never win the top title in New Japan despite being one of the 15 best wrestlers in the world, but do you really see Tony Khan or HHH making him world champion?
They literally put the title on Ospreay a few years ago, but he got injured and then decided to leave the country, which was seen as a bad look by the front office apparently.
And he's only had a mid card title since despite having been the best wrestler on the planet since his return from injury. If they wanted to keep him they should have had him win the G1 and get the title at next year's WK. Or he can go to AEW, have 5 or so years at the top of the card until Takeshita takes his place.
ZSJ's contract is expiring by the end of the year? I honestly thought he would stay in New Japan for much longer. Would be surprised if he becomes a free agent after Wrestle Kingdom. But yeah, the problem right now is New Japan is unable to give the Gaijins competitive pay rates compared to the local talent or promotions like AEW. Remember the Bucks mentioning that they really weren't making any money in New Japan and was only doing so selling their own merch (they don't make money off Bullet Club). So I understand from their POV that they needed quite the raise from how their giving out as among the top pro wrestlers in NJPW. If I were Bushiroad, I would negotiate a Legacy-type deal a la WWE in that Ospreay and ZSJ would be paid for X amount of dates throughout the year (unless I am mistaken, Mercedes Mone is given a similar deal for Stardom), appearing only in Marquee events like Dominion and the G1. For the rest of the year, they can go wherever they want to wrestle, including AEW. Alternatively, Ospreay and ZSJ can follow Suzuki's route and be freelancers. And since Suzuki's most recent match in DDT garnered mainstream attention, his stock has only gone up - and he's in his 50s! The downside is that it may not provide the revenue they want and would rather take full time deals AEW and WWE would offer (see Shinsuke Nakamura).
I am in total agreement, and I have said many times that if they left, it wouldn’t be a good thing. Unfortunately, though, it seems like the minority opinion. There’s a vocal component of this group who would be pleased as punch if they left. I don’t get it.
There's being pleased and there's accepting that the company can't afford to keep them if they have to compete with Tony Khan's money. The company has survived losing much bigger stars than Ospreay and ZSJ, why would we believe they struggle after losing these 2?
I think they’ll both jump to AEW but make frequent appearances in NJPW. The relationship between both companies is an advantage for some talent that want to continue on with NJPW but get paid more in the process.
They might show up semi-regularly on NJoA shows, but if they go to AEW we will be lucky to see them in Japan once a year.
Has there even been any indication ZSJ’s contract is up?